Sue Begg wrote:

In message , Johannes
writes


Zak wrote:

On Fri 20 May 2005 14:12:48, Johannes H Andersen wrote:



Zak wrote:

This is slightly off-topic but posted to groups where I figure
people would have some good ideas to help me out.

So if it's off-topic, that justifies excessive cross posting?

1. It is criminal damage.

Johannes, why not check out "cross-posting" in Google and see how
many crossposts GNKSA recommends as a working maximum before it gives
its seal of approval.

What GNKSA recommends is not the issue here. Cross posting, like this
one, causes clutter and is irrelevant to many more readers.

It is clearly headed with its content. If you are not interested then
simply do not read it and leave the rest of us to our amusing
conversation.
With all respect etc. etc.

Amusing to have your car damaged by vigilante vandals?

On Fri, 20 May 2005 14:21:19 UTC, Zak wrote:

In fact with a bit of work and the right solvents and a good pair
of overalls it could all be sorted out in half an hour. No more
than a tenner including labout I would guess.

They used to use these sticky papers at work (in fact I *think* they
still do). One idiot went into the building and returned with a kettle
full of boiling water.

Yes, bang went the windscreen - in more senses than one.

How we laughed.

--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...take up Extreme Ironing!

In article , says...

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
t...
And how did you know who was disabled and who wasnt? You sound like a
genuine plonker.

There's a national scheme for disabled badges that indicates which cars
are permitted to used disabled spaces.

I choose not to apply for a badge, but I often have problems managing
shopping, so frequently use the disabled spaces at the supermarket. Should I
have to spend hours trying to get my window clean for daring not to give the
civil service even more paperwork?

Yes. There is a system that covers the use of disabled spaces. Either
use both or neither.

--
AndyT.

Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional.
- Anon.

On Fri, 20 May 2005 15:08:17 +0100, Zak wrote:

But won't the water-based gums or wallpaper paste just DISSOLVE if
they are left to soak for a minute or so in water from the windscreen
washer?

Commercially printed no parking stickers are glazed on the upper
surface, often as part of the brightly coloured surface / print process.
This glaze is fairly impervious.

Gum is better because it dries more quickly. Wallpaper paste is
probably still wett (and peelable) when they return.

On Fri, 20 May 2005 14:50:12 UTC, Trooper
wrote:

In Grouch's defence, this post has also been crossposted to
uk.comp.vendors, uk.comp.homebuilt, sci.chem and sci.physics in a
separate posting.

Technically, that's multiposting and a bit more annoying.

But I'm enjoying the thread!

--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...take up Extreme Ironing!

"Zak" wrote in message
...

I think that the extent of the criminal in this case damage is
rather limited. I do not propose to etch the windscreen or to
actually damage it.

In fact with a bit of work and the right solvents and a good pair
of overalls it could all be sorted out in half an hour. No more
than a tenner including labout I would guess.

If you are the driver and have to go and fetch those items but
have no car to travel in then it would take much longer.

Hardly worth pursuing a court case over.

I agree, I'd respond equally illegally and put a block of frozenmilk through
your windscreen as a thank you. Much quicker than a court case, and you'd
only have to pay the excess on your policy for a new screen, barely worth
troubling over, isn't it?

One thing you haven't considered - How do you know the people parking
shouldn't be there? Sure, most of them maybe shouldn't, but are you mind
reader enough to know if an unknown car is a visitor, health worker, family
and so on? Do you really have your nose in every other residents business?

On Fri, 20 May 2005 13:12:48 GMT, Johannes H Andersen
wrote:

1. It is criminal damage.

Damn right ! Let's have some more of it. A few good clips around the
ear for the chavvery too.

John Rumm wrote:
Zak wrote:

Hmm, Solvite. That sounds good. Cheaper than the fancy adhesives
too. I was thinking that I should use some really crappy paper so
that the sheet left half itself when the driver driver tried to
remove it.

If you want the driver to run over some innocent pedestrian because he
can't see out of the car.....


If the driver drives off with his/her vision obviously obstructed, then
he/she is at fault and is in fact commiting an offence.


Brian G

wrote:
Simon Finnigan wrote:

I used to LOVE putting stickers on the cars in disabled bays when I
worked in a supermarket. Big A4 sheets that took hours to scrape
off. Then I`d stand by the car and wait for the owner to come out.
"Who put that on my car????". "Me, is there a problem?". rant
rant rave, threaten, abuse. Smile nicely and explain that since
they couldn`t read the big sign infront of their car, we had
thoughtfully decided to put one on their car to ensure they knew for
next time. The other customers watching this used to wet
themselves laughing!

And how did you know who was disabled and who wasnt? You sound like a
genuine plonker.

NT

If the person is genuinely then he/she will have a card saying so and will
display it - ergo, if no card is displayed then the person is not disabled
and shouldn't be in that spot.

Brian G

Why don't you just get the managing agents for the flats to employ clampers?
It may mean a small hike in maintenance charges but the problem will
certainly be resolved in a short time.

You need to be careful about letting down car tyre or using strong glue on
notices etc...

You could get done for vehicle interference.

chas

The message . 170
from Adrian contains these words:

Trouble is, the badges are ridiculously easy to get hold
of. When my wife's expired shortly after we moved to Telford we rang up
the bod and explained, they sent a form which we completed and sent off
£2 and a photo and back came the blue wossname. No checks on
(in)validity at all.

Yebbut, that was a renewal. Try getting a new one.

But we were renewing it in a different borough and gave no indication of
where the original badge was obtained.

--
Skipweasel.
Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood."

On Fri, 20 May 2005 15:36:21 GMT and in uk.rec.cars.misc, Guy King
wrote....

The message . 170
from Adrian contains these words:

Trouble is, the badges are ridiculously easy to get hold
of. When my wife's expired shortly after we moved to Telford we
rang up the bod and explained, they sent a form which we completed
and sent off £2 and a photo and back came the blue wossname. No
checks on (in)validity at all.

Yebbut, that was a renewal. Try getting a new one.

But we were renewing it in a different borough and gave no indication
of where the original badge was obtained.

But if you gave them information about the expired badge then someone else
is responsible for declaring your wife disabled.

It's the same as renewing your car insurance. It is your responsibility to
disclose a change in circumstances.

--
sme

"Zak" wrote in message
...
This is slightly off-topic but posted to groups where I figure
people would have some good ideas to help me out.

------

I live in a small block of flats near London. When they go
shopping some people like to park in our car park. If this does
not happen much then we just accept it.

However, recently a small number of strangers have started parking
here regularly and some leave their car here all day while they
are at work.

There is entry no barrier to our car park and the warning notices
and (fake) clamping notices on the car park walls are ignored.
These peristent parkers also ignore our little notes left under
the wipers asking them not to park in our car park.

SO THIS IS MY PLAN. I reckon I should now stick a A4-sized
"Please Do Not Park Here" notice on the windscreen of these
regular parkers and make sure the notice is attached with some
sort of glue that takes them a long time to remove.

What do you suggest I use for glue? If I use some rubbery sort of
compound like Bostik or Evostik then it will cost quite a bit as I
probably need a tube of the glue for each notice. If I use a
hard-setting glue like superglue then it will probably come off
with an ice-scraper as the wind screen will probably be a bit
dirty & dusty.

Can I buy and preprinted EXTRA-MESSY self adhesive notices which
say "Please Do Not Park Here" ?

Any ideas as to what (relatively cheap) adhesive I can use would
be welcome.

THis is what our local college started doing !

Mary Fisher wrote:
"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
t...

Or just employ a wheel clamping firm. I can't imagine they would
charge you given the profits

The problem is that these firms get out of control. They'll start clamping
not only your visitors, but the owner's cars too, and ambulances, police
cars, slow moving zimmer frames etc.


You know, Christian, if you want to sound humorous you should use a smily.
If you're serious you're not sensible.

I thought it was only the americans that needed canned laughter to point
out humour....

On Fri, 20 May 2005 11:34:00 GMT, Grouch wrote:


Nobody owns the damn carpark cos it was all a f*cking blag posting by the
OP.

Can't see why you have come to that conclusion, unless you 'know' him from
elsewhere.

so can we close this sodden thread altogether.

Set your newsreader to 'ignore' it.

A suggestion for the OP. We have until recently had a problem with a
school'boy' who kept parking outside a house we are working on, blocking
one of the access routes. We asked him not to park there, he ignored us. An
'accidental' sprinkling of dust a few days running did the trick. Of course
you might not have ready access to builders type dust, but anything else
that would cause the cars to need a wash afterwards might work and might be
considered less 'illegal' than glue or letting tyres down etc??

--
Holly, in France
Holiday home in Dordogne
http://la-plaine.chez.tiscali.fr

wrote in message
oups.com...
Simon Finnigan wrote:

I used to LOVE putting stickers on the cars in disabled bays when I
worked
in a supermarket. Big A4 sheets that took hours to scrape off. Then
I`d
stand by the car and wait for the owner to come out. "Who put that
on my
car????". "Me, is there a problem?". rant rant rave, threaten,
abuse.
Smile nicely and explain that since they couldn`t read the big sign
infront
of their car, we had thoughtfully decided to put one on their car to
ensure
they knew for next time. The other customers watching this used to
wet
themselves laughing!

And how did you know who was disabled and who wasnt? You sound like a
genuine plonker.


If they had an orange disabled parking badge, the signs said they could park
their. The sign said Orange disabled badge holders, not simply disabled
parking. And call me whatever you want, I enjoyed winding the idiots up!

--
What am I selling on ebay right now?
http://tinyurl.com/38yjc
Earn money reading emails!
http://tinyurl.com/2pcgm
One month FREE spam and fraud protection at
http://www.cloudmark.com/safetybarsig/?rc=kmj4hl

The message
from sme contains these words:

But we were renewing it in a different borough and gave no indication
of where the original badge was obtained.

But if you gave them information about the expired badge then someone else
is responsible for declaring your wife disabled.

We didn't. We just stated that she had one - nothing about from where
she got it or how long she'd had it or whether she deserved it. There
was nothing to prevent us just imagining the first one.

--
Skipweasel.
Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood."

"Zak" wrote in message
...
On Fri 20 May 2005 10:44:20, Simon Finnigan wrote:



I used to LOVE putting stickers on the cars in disabled bays
when I worked in a supermarket. Big A4 sheets that took hours
to scrape off. Then I`d stand by the car and wait for the owner
to come out. "Who put that on my car????". "Me, is there a
problem?". rant rant rave, threaten, abuse. Smile nicely and
explain that since they couldn`t read the big sign infront of
their car, we had thoughtfully decided to put one on their car
to ensure they knew for next time. The other customers
watching this used to wet themselves laughing!

I am the OP and those stickers sound just like what I am looking for!

Are they something I can buy? Of course I don't want a sticker which
is not sticky enough! :-)

Try asking at the customer service counter of your local Sainsbury, that`s
where I worked. If they don`t give you some, they might tell you where to
get them from.

--
What am I selling on ebay right now?
http://tinyurl.com/38yjc
Earn money reading emails!
http://tinyurl.com/2pcgm
One month FREE spam and fraud protection at
http://www.cloudmark.com/safetybarsig/?rc=kmj4hl

Zak wrote:

Zak wrote:


Hmm, Solvite. That sounds good. Cheaper than the fancy
adhesives too. I was thinking that I should use some really
crappy paper so that the sheet left half itself when the driver
driver tried to remove it.


On Fri 20 May 2005 14:12:17, John Rumm wrote:

If you want the driver to run over some innocent pedestrian
because he can't see out of the car.....



Of course the driver will realise that his car is not roadworthy and
that he must not drive it on public roads.

Alas I don't share you faith.... how many times have you driven off in
the winter a little before the screen it totally clear of mist?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Stuffed" wrote in message
...

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Adrian wrote:

Personally, I wish people would leave their bloody kids at home when
they
go to the supermarket. It'd make *everybody's* shopping less unpleasant

I Think you will find that is often called child abuse or neglect....

In a single parent family, fair enough. But really, is it so impossible
for
one parent to do the shopping while the other stays at home? Why do two
adults, and three children of various age and annoyance have to be there?

Why shouldn't they? The average family probably spends considerably more on
supermarket shopping than a single person or a childless couple. I'm pretty
sure the supermarkets would rather have them as customers than the lower
spending singles & couples.

And why do the parents look at me in fury if I actually want to get past
their three year old bumbler to get at something I want to buy?

Possibly due to your confrontational attitude?

Did your parents never take you shopping as a child? Bear in mind, that the
"three year old bumbler" could well be the person looking after you in your
dotage and have a little patience (they'll need to exercise it when you're
dribbling and ranting at them in later years after all ;-))

Don't get me wrong, badly behaved children are a pet hate of mine. I've
brought my children up to be tolerant of others, and to demonstrate good
manners - I don't see any reason why others can't do the same thing.
--
Unlock Your Phone's Potential
www.uselessinfo.org.uk
www.thephonelocker.co.uk
www.gsm-solutions.co.uk

In article , Zak says...

The flats I live in are privately owned and so is our car park.

No, the flats are owned, not the car park. Unless the deeds to the
property specifically mention part of the car park, the owner of the
flat doesn't have any right of ownership to a space.

It seems to me to be pretty much the same thing as you living in a
house and having your own car parking area next to the house.

If there is unrestricted access to the public, I'd expect anyone to
park on it.


--
Conor

"Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most." O.Osbourne.

Brian G wrote:

If the driver drives off with his/her vision obviously obstructed, then
he/she is at fault and is in fact commiting an offence.

That may or may not be the case... however he may try to clear it "as
best he can" (not having hot soapy water to hand) and then drive off.
Only to find it is actually more of a hindrance than anticipated when he
runs over a small child he did not see.

He may be "in the wrong" legally. However there is now a two dimensional
infant that got that way only because of your actions with the pritt
stick. How do you feel about that?

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Adrian" wrote in message
. 244.170...
Mary Fisher ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

Personally, I wish people would leave their bloody kids at home when
they go to the supermarket.

You don't have to shop at the supermarket.

Nor do they.
Nor do they have to inflict their repulsive crotchfruit on me.

So you were never a child then?

For God's sake man, get some perspective.

I have at least as much right to be there, if not more, than the kids do,

Why?

and I'm causing those parents FAR less inconvenience by going to the
supermarket than they cause me by taking their ASBO-trainees with them.

Ah right, so all kids are going to grow up and become criminals? I'll
assume you're talking from personal experience, but the vast majority of
children grown up to be well balanced and law abiding members of society.

mindless rant snipped

--
Unlock Your Phone's Potential
www.uselessinfo.org.uk
www.thephonelocker.co.uk
www.gsm-solutions.co.uk

Adrian wrote:

Yebbut, that was a renewal. Try getting a new one.

Not used a photocopier before?

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

No, the flats are owned, not the car park. Unless the deeds to the
property specifically mention part of the car park, the owner of the
flat doesn't have any right of ownership to a space.

They almost invariably do. It causes all sorts of problems in conveyancing
when they don't.

Christian.

"Depresion" wrote in message
...

"Rob graham" wrote in message
...
I had this problem when I was staying at a friend's flat in France. His
car space was always used up. I used to park my car tight up behind the
offender so he had to find me to get it out. This obviuously only works if
you have enough space to do this without encroaching on the highway or
someone else's land.

You did that in France? That's brave, I know how the French tend to treat
there cars.


You're right. But it was a hire car!

Rob

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

"Alan Gauton" wrote in message


How do you know they're able-bodied? Some of my family have a blue
badge, but don't look like they need it. Sometimes the problems are
internal, not obvious, such as having lungs missing, ....

Missing lungs don't necessarily disable one.

Our champion hill climber in the cycling club only had one lung.


My paternal grandmother is a healthy 80-something year old. My dad told me
some of her story a while ago.

She apparently contracted TB in the 40s or 50s and as part of the whole
ordeal contracted pneumonia (I think) and suffered a collapsed lung. TB
sorted out, out of isolation or whatever TB unit it was at the time, waiting
(rather impatiently) in bed for the completely defunct lung to be removed.
My grandfather - long deceased now, never met him - then came down with some
dreadful disease contracted from working with pigs, now completely unable to
look after the 4 or 5 children that they had by that time.

So she just got up, packed her things and discharged herself. Went on and
had another 5 kids and to this day she still has only use of one lung.

Yorkshire folk - tough as old boots!


--
Richard Sampson

mail me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

Blimey! What a thread. This has hit a nerve.

Rob Graham

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
t...
I choose not to apply for a badge, but I often have problems managing
shopping, so frequently use the disabled spaces at the supermarket.
Should
I
have to spend hours trying to get my window clean for daring not to give
the
civil service even more paperwork?

No, you should bloody well apply for a badge and stop being lazy.

I agree.

Many years ago I did use a disabled parking space for a time-sensitive but
very short appointment when I couldn't park near my appointment. Full of
guilt I left a note saying that I was temporarily disabled by a broken leg
and when I would be back.

On my return a meter officer was standing observing my progress which was on
crutches with a pot on my leg. She didn't approach, I was grateful for her
attitude as well as her vigilance.

Mary

Christian.

"Guy King" wrote in message
...
The message
from sme contains these words:

But we were renewing it in a different borough and gave no indication
of where the original badge was obtained.

But if you gave them information about the expired badge then someone
else
is responsible for declaring your wife disabled.

We didn't. We just stated that she had one - nothing about from where
she got it or how long she'd had it or whether she deserved it. There
was nothing to prevent us just imagining the first one.

You think there isn't a national database?

--
Skipweasel.
Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood."

"RichardS" wrote in message
...


Missing lungs don't necessarily disable one.

Our champion hill climber in the cycling club only had one lung.


My paternal grandmother is a healthy 80-something year old. My dad told
me some of her story a while ago.

She apparently contracted TB in the 40s or 50s and as part of the whole
ordeal contracted pneumonia (I think) and suffered a collapsed lung. TB
sorted out, out of isolation or whatever TB unit it was at the time,
waiting (rather impatiently) in bed for the completely defunct lung to be
removed. My grandfather - long deceased now, never met him - then came
down with some dreadful disease contracted from working with pigs, now
completely unable to look after the 4 or 5 children that they had by that
time.

So she just got up, packed her things and discharged herself. Went on and
had another 5 kids and to this day she still has only use of one lung.

Yorkshire folk - tough as old boots!

Quite.

Our fellow cyclist had also suffered TB as a child - in the 40s. He was also
a Tyke, as we are.

Mary


--
Richard Sampson

mail me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

"Stuffed" wrote in message
...

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Adrian wrote:

Personally, I wish people would leave their bloody kids at home when
they
go to the supermarket. It'd make *everybody's* shopping less unpleasant

I Think you will find that is often called child abuse or neglect....

In a single parent family, fair enough. But really, is it so impossible
for
one parent to do the shopping while the other stays at home? Why do two
adults, and three children of various age and annoyance have to be there?
And why do the parents look at me in fury if I actually want to get past
their three year old bumbler to get at something I want to buy?

Perhaps you could be polite andask, as you'd expect them to do?

Not all parentsand children are bad mannered.

Mary

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 May 2005 14:08:17 UTC, Zak wrote:

Some very good suggestions for me in this short posting.

But won't the water-based gums or wallpaper paste just DISSOLVE if
they are left to soak for a minute or so in water from the windscreen
washer?

Even a minute or two is probably enough to dissuade them. Anyway, how
easy is it (sometimes) to strip wallpaper, even with a steam stripper?
:-)



use woodchip. seems to be particularly resistant to any known form of
attack when it's on walls!

--
Richard Sampson

mail me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

"Adrian" wrote in message
. 244.170...
Mary Fisher ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

Personally, I wish people would leave their bloody kids at home when
they go to the supermarket.

You don't have to shop at the supermarket.

Nor do they.
Nor do they have to inflict their repulsive crotchfruit on me.

I have at least as much right to be there, if not more, than the kids do,
and I'm causing those parents FAR less inconvenience by going to the
supermarket than they cause me by taking their ASBO-trainees with them.

I don't understand the mentality of parents. If I were to inflict my
choice
of childlessness upon them, they would scream blue murder. So why is it
perfectly OK for them to inflict their choice on me?

You could scream louder by hitting the caps lock ...

Mary

"Steve Walker" wrote in message

You might have been someone's little darling once ...

I certainly wouldn't have been allowed to damage other people's property.

And if you had been allowed to?

Mary

--
Steve Walker

"Howard Neil" wrote in message
news:428ded7f$0$26089$ed2619ec@ptn-
I think that the extent of the criminal in this case damage is rather
limited. I do not propose to etch the windscreen or to actually damage
it. In fact with a bit of work and the right solvents and a good pair of
overalls it could all be sorted out in half an hour. No more than a
tenner including labout I would guess.

If you are the driver and have to go and fetch those items but have no
car to travel in then it would take much longer.

Hardly worth pursuing a court case over.

You do not have to actually cause damage to be convicted of Criminal
Damage.

One of the earlier cases brought under the Criminal Damage Act 1971
involved a tyre being let down. The person was convicted of Criminal
Damage and appealed. The appeal court, on upholding the conviction, said
that the act of letting down the tyre had caused the owner to take an
action that he would not have otherwise have had to do (pumping up the
tyre).

By affixing the sticky label, you would cause the owner to take an action
that he would not have otherwise have had to do and, therefore, would be
committing an offence under the Criminal Damage Act 1971.

AH! I was hoping the Voice of Authority would speak :-)

Mary

--
Howard Neil

"David Taylor" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote on Fri, 20 May 2005 12:18:15
+0100:

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
t...
Or just employ a wheel clamping firm. I can't imagine they would
charge you given the profits

The problem is that these firms get out of control. They'll start
clamping
not only your visitors, but the owner's cars too, and ambulances, police
cars, slow moving zimmer frames etc.

You know, Christian, if you want to sound humorous you should use a
smily.

********. Are people so dense they need smilies to appreciate humour?

Ever heard of deadpan humour?

If you're serious you're not sensible.

But more to the point, it's not humour. I suspect he was serious,
and regardless, he's right. Perhaps not every clamping company
is as over-zealous, but there are numerous examples available
through google...

Ah Google. The Authority on Everything.

Mary

--
David Taylor

Brian G wrote:

If the person is genuinely then he/she will have a card saying so and
will
display it - ergo, if no card is displayed then the person is not
disabled
and shouldn't be in that spot.

Brian G

Makes me grateful for having a clue.

NT

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 May 2005 13:12:48 GMT, Johannes H Andersen
wrote:

1. It is criminal damage.

Damn right ! Let's have some more of it. A few good clips around the
ear for the chavvery too.

With an anvil.

Mary

Sue Begg wrote:
From the supermarkets point of view it is in their interests to
encourage children because the parents spend a lot more.

Perhaps they could have different Days, so one could decide which
annoyances to avoid.

Monday could be Dotty Pensioner Free Day
Tuesday could be Fat People Blocking The Aisles And Talking On Mobile
Phones Free Day
Wednesday could be Children Free Day
Thursday could be Young Lovers Smooching in Low-Calorie Hot Drinks Aisle
Free Day
Friday could be People You Used To Work With And Never Want To Meet
Again Free Day
Saturday could be Indicisive People Who Take Twenty Minutes To Choose
What Type Of Value Digestive They Want To Buy And Another Twenty Minutes
To Find Their Wallet/Purse At The Checkout Free Day

Owain