FrozenNorth wrote:

Check the actual cable it wasn't too long ago that 12 guage came with a
white sheathing too.

You can't always go by the colour.

Thank you for your reply. I heard about that, but I've handled enough 12
gauge romex this summer to know this isn't it. I'll double check
tomorrow, just to make sure.

Bill

Mike Marlow wrote:

Remember that your faceplates cover
beyond the box, so you don't need to go crazy trying to fit the tape
precisely around the box.

I'm sure I was getting close to crazy fitting some of the tape around
the boxes, but your post was nice to keep in mind. I have no regrets
about filling all the screw holes in the electrical boxes with 6-32
screws before I started spackling near the (plastic) screw holes. $2 is
a minuscule price to pay for the peace of mind, and I'll reclaim the
screws. A Q-tip came in handy too.

Bill

"Bill" wrote in message
...
Larry Jaques wrote:

If you mud down an extra foot, it will still show up to everyone who
looks at it via shadow lines and it will look unprofessional.

Everything I said there goes. You will indubitably regret that choice,
but it's your choice.shrug

I'm not sure. I'll post some photos soon and we can both judge. What the
room is really lacking is a cabinet saw and a drill press. : )

Pay no attention to the resident troll. I suspect he/she is about 14.

Given a long enough taper, you could hide a couple dead bodies. ;-)
--
Jim in NC

On Sun, 22 Aug 2010 00:49:08 -0400, Bill wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

If you mud down an extra foot, it will still show up to everyone who
looks at it via shadow lines and it will look unprofessional.

Larry,

Most of the joint is 3" from the ceiling. I've taped it all, but I
haven't done much tapering yet, and I think it looks pretty good.
The ceiling is "brushed joint compound"/imitation stucco--whatever that
treatment is called. I think someone suggested here a while back that I
proceed as I have. We didn't realize, of course, that I would uncover a
variety of drywall widths in the tear-off.


You meant "thicknesses", right? In addition, you'll seldom get mud
precisely flat. (See used/wrecked/repainted cars for the idea.)


I will have considerable
lighting in this area, so I doubt shadow lines will be a major issue. I

Whatever you say. g


can always redo whatever I find unacceptable--another wall and the
ceiling still needs work. It's not like I have to make a special trip
to the job site.

OK.


As Steve mentioned, there has been a lot of learning in this. That was
and still is a very important goal too--to further develop my skills,
for instance, for working on the interior of the house. I am hopeful
that my results will look *great*, while they may fall somewhat short of
standards someone might require for a brightly lit formal dining room
finished with semi-gloss paint (Level 5?).

Formal dining room with Semi? Fatal Error! Don't mud, just prime,
paint, and put up 3.5" or larger crown moulding.


By the way, I get to apply many of the skills I've learned working on
this project to a garbage disposal that broke yesterday and needs to be
replaced. As I'm not sure there is currently even enough wire to get to
the new disposal or a properly located junction box, I may need to pull
wire from the switch which is on an adjacent wall.

If it's just a short wire, consider adding a junction box on the wall
and extend from there.


My point is I'm
confident about the electrical part of whatever I need to do with
that--which is a far better position than I would have been in only 6
months ago.

That's a good feeling, isn't it?


I need to try to figure out how to hook up the out-flowing
pipe as the new disposal uses a different adapter than I have now...so
I'm off to look for some resources now. Cheers!

Isn't plumbing a joy? deep sigh

--
We're all here because we're not all there.

Larry Jaques wrote:

I need to try to figure out how to hook up the out-flowing
pipe as the new disposal uses a different adapter than I have now...so
I'm off to look for some resources now. Cheers!

Isn't plumbing a joy?deep sigh


I found an extra inch or two of romex cable behind the wall that didn't
seem to be there yesterday--enough to reach. So, I how have my first
"garbage disposal replacement and install" under my belt. After
watching a youtube video or two on the matter last night, I didn't even
need to look at the directions. I wouldn't say it was trivial, but, I
didn't struggle too much, so it must not have been too hard! ; )

Bill

On Sun, 22 Aug 2010 22:20:32 -0400, Bill wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

I need to try to figure out how to hook up the out-flowing
pipe as the new disposal uses a different adapter than I have now...so
I'm off to look for some resources now. Cheers!

Isn't plumbing a joy?deep sigh


I found an extra inch or two of romex cable behind the wall that didn't
seem to be there yesterday--enough to reach. So, I how have my first
"garbage disposal replacement and install" under my belt. After
watching a youtube video or two on the matter last night, I didn't even
need to look at the directions. I wouldn't say it was trivial, but, I
didn't struggle too much, so it must not have been too hard! ; )

Congratulations. Here, I'll give you the clap: clap, clap

--
Not merely an absence of noise, Real Silence begins
when a reasonable being withdraws from the noise in
order to find peace and order in his inner sanctuary.
-- Peter Minard

Bill wrote:


I observed that the garbage disposal is currently on a dedicated 20
Amp circuit, but, at least back to its switch, it is wired with white
romex cable (guage 14). I am not yet familiar yet with the cable
between the switch and the main panel (I have a hunch that it is
guage 12).

I hope it's not 14 ga on a 20 amp breaker. Don't assume so just because the
romex is white. The colored jackets for romex is a new thing and it used to
be that all romex was white. Look at the romex before you do anything.


This configuration is inappropriate, no? Technically, I think I
should upgrade the cable to yellow or replace the breaker with a 15
Amp one. The new device will be about 8.2 Amps. Given these choices,
I think I would lean towards replacing the breaker.


--

-Mike-

Larry Jaques wrote:


You meant "thicknesses", right? In addition, you'll seldom get mud
precisely flat. (See used/wrecked/repainted cars for the idea.)


Well - not really. The trick to getting it nice and flat is a long board.
Use any length board that is appropriate - it can be a couple of feet long,
and attach sanding sheets to it. That way you can span areas easily and get
dead flat results.

--

-Mike-

On 8/22/2010 3:12 AM, Bill wrote:
FrozenNorth wrote:

Check the actual cable it wasn't too long ago that 12 guage came with a
white sheathing too.

You can't always go by the colour.

Thank you for your reply. I heard about that, but I've handled enough 12
gauge romex this summer to know this isn't it. I'll double check
tomorrow, just to make sure.

NMC (of which "Romex" is just one brand) has gone through continuous
evolution since 1922, when Rome Cable introduced it. The stuff sold
today is somewhat different from that sold 20 years ago and it's
different from what was sold 20 years before that and on back to the
original rubber with cloth over the rubber with a varnished fabric outer
sheath. The color code is a voluntary standard that the NEMA
implemented about 10 years back--it's useful in installing new work and
it's pretty but it's not something you should count on.

So, if you want to know if a particular cable is 12/2, the only reliable
method is to read the code-required markings embossed on the cable
sheath. Be gentle with it though, if it's 1922 vintage it likely won't
take much handling without starting to crumble.

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:


I observed that the garbage disposal is currently on a dedicated 20
Amp circuit, but, at least back to its switch, it is wired with white
romex cable (guage 14). I am not yet familiar yet with the cable
between the switch and the main panel (I have a hunch that it is
guage 12).

I hope it's not 14 ga on a 20 amp breaker. Don't assume so just because the
romex is white. The colored jackets for romex is a new thing and it used to
be that all romex was white. Look at the romex before you do anything.

Thanks, I'll be double-checking because, according to the directions, I
forgot to put in a (romex cable) connector. Actually, I think my wire
may in fact be white 12 gauge romex. After working with 10 gauge it
looked small to me. The person who installed that last garbage disposal
apparently didn't read their directions either--it's not like they
include a connector in the package! For $169.99, they could include a
darn 35 cent connector... For those not in the know, the connector will
prevent damage where the cable enters the device and will prevent
tugging on the wire-connectors. I'll probably redo it this weekend.

Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:


I observed that the garbage disposal is currently on a dedicated 20
Amp circuit, but, at least back to its switch, it is wired with white
romex cable (guage 14). I am not yet familiar yet with the cable
between the switch and the main panel (I have a hunch that it is
guage 12).

I hope it's not 14 ga on a 20 amp breaker. Don't assume so just
because the
romex is white. The colored jackets for romex is a new thing and it
used to
be that all romex was white. Look at the romex before you do anything.

Another chance to use my "trusty" Harbor Freight Centrum digital caliper:

The white romex under my sink is about .37" wide (including the insulation).
My new yellow 12-2 romex is about .425"

I don't have any 14-2 romex to compare it to and can't seem to locate
any print on the white romex I can read under the sink (even with a
flashlight). How wide is 14-2 typically (I couldn't find anything on
the web)? My limited experience and intuition is telling me I have 14-2
under my sink, but I hope it's not.

There is only one duplex outlet(GFCI)on the 20 Amp circuit besides the
garbage disposal. It wouldn't be a big deal to switch out the breaker
for one rated at 15 Amps if necessary.

Bill

On 8/25/10 1:17 AM, Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:


I observed that the garbage disposal is currently on a dedicated 20
Amp circuit, but, at least back to its switch, it is wired with white
romex cable (guage 14). I am not yet familiar yet with the cable
between the switch and the main panel (I have a hunch that it is
guage 12).

I hope it's not 14 ga on a 20 amp breaker. Don't assume so just
because the
romex is white. The colored jackets for romex is a new thing and it
used to
be that all romex was white. Look at the romex before you do anything.

Another chance to use my "trusty" Harbor Freight Centrum digital caliper:

The white romex under my sink is about .37" wide (including the
insulation).
My new yellow 12-2 romex is about .425"

I don't have any 14-2 romex to compare it to and can't seem to locate
any print on the white romex I can read under the sink (even with a
flashlight). How wide is 14-2 typically (I couldn't find anything on the
web)? My limited experience and intuition is telling me I have 14-2
under my sink, but I hope it's not.

There is only one duplex outlet(GFCI)on the 20 Amp circuit besides the
garbage disposal. It wouldn't be a big deal to switch out the breaker
for one rated at 15 Amps if necessary.

Open an outlet in your bedroom, odds are it is 14 guage.

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

On 8/25/10 1:23 AM, FrozenNorth wrote:
On 8/25/10 1:17 AM, Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:


I observed that the garbage disposal is currently on a dedicated 20
Amp circuit, but, at least back to its switch, it is wired with white
romex cable (guage 14). I am not yet familiar yet with the cable
between the switch and the main panel (I have a hunch that it is
guage 12).

I hope it's not 14 ga on a 20 amp breaker. Don't assume so just
because the
romex is white. The colored jackets for romex is a new thing and it
used to
be that all romex was white. Look at the romex before you do anything.

Another chance to use my "trusty" Harbor Freight Centrum digital caliper:

The white romex under my sink is about .37" wide (including the
insulation).
My new yellow 12-2 romex is about .425"

I don't have any 14-2 romex to compare it to and can't seem to locate
any print on the white romex I can read under the sink (even with a
flashlight). How wide is 14-2 typically (I couldn't find anything on the
web)? My limited experience and intuition is telling me I have 14-2
under my sink, but I hope it's not.

There is only one duplex outlet(GFCI)on the 20 Amp circuit besides the
garbage disposal. It wouldn't be a big deal to switch out the breaker
for one rated at 15 Amps if necessary.

Open an outlet in your bedroom, odds are it is 14 guage.

Damn, measure the conductor, not all the insulation, missed that.

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

FrozenNorth wrote:
On 8/25/10 1:17 AM, Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:


I observed that the garbage disposal is currently on a dedicated 20
Amp circuit, but, at least back to its switch, it is wired with white
romex cable (guage 14). I am not yet familiar yet with the cable
between the switch and the main panel (I have a hunch that it is
guage 12).

I hope it's not 14 ga on a 20 amp breaker. Don't assume so just
because the
romex is white. The colored jackets for romex is a new thing and it
used to
be that all romex was white. Look at the romex before you do anything.

Another chance to use my "trusty" Harbor Freight Centrum digital caliper:

The white romex under my sink is about .37" wide (including the
insulation).
My new yellow 12-2 romex is about .425"

I don't have any 14-2 romex to compare it to and can't seem to locate
any print on the white romex I can read under the sink (even with a
flashlight). How wide is 14-2 typically (I couldn't find anything on the
web)? My limited experience and intuition is telling me I have 14-2
under my sink, but I hope it's not.

There is only one duplex outlet(GFCI)on the 20 Amp circuit besides the
garbage disposal. It wouldn't be a big deal to switch out the breaker
for one rated at 15 Amps if necessary.

Open an outlet in your bedroom, odds are it is 14 guage.

I think almost my whole house is wired with 12-2.

FrozenNorth wrote:
On 8/25/10 1:17 AM, Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:


I observed that the garbage disposal is currently on a dedicated 20
Amp circuit, but, at least back to its switch, it is wired with white
romex cable (guage 14). I am not yet familiar yet with the cable
between the switch and the main panel (I have a hunch that it is
guage 12).

I hope it's not 14 ga on a 20 amp breaker. Don't assume so just
because the
romex is white. The colored jackets for romex is a new thing and it
used to
be that all romex was white. Look at the romex before you do anything.

Another chance to use my "trusty" Harbor Freight Centrum digital caliper:

The white romex under my sink is about .37" wide (including the
insulation).
My new yellow 12-2 romex is about .425"

I don't have any 14-2 romex to compare it to and can't seem to locate
any print on the white romex I can read under the sink (even with a
flashlight). How wide is 14-2 typically (I couldn't find anything on the
web)? My limited experience and intuition is telling me I have 14-2
under my sink, but I hope it's not.

There is only one duplex outlet(GFCI)on the 20 Amp circuit besides the
garbage disposal. It wouldn't be a big deal to switch out the breaker
for one rated at 15 Amps if necessary.

Open an outlet in your bedroom, odds are it is 14 guage.

I think almost my whole house is wired with 12-2.

Bill wrote:
FrozenNorth wrote:
On 8/25/10 1:17 AM, Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:


I observed that the garbage disposal is currently on a dedicated 20
Amp circuit, but, at least back to its switch, it is wired with white
romex cable (guage 14). I am not yet familiar yet with the cable
between the switch and the main panel (I have a hunch that it is
guage 12).

I hope it's not 14 ga on a 20 amp breaker. Don't assume so just
because the
romex is white. The colored jackets for romex is a new thing and it
used to
be that all romex was white. Look at the romex before you do anything.

Another chance to use my "trusty" Harbor Freight Centrum digital
caliper:

The white romex under my sink is about .37" wide (including the
insulation).
My new yellow 12-2 romex is about .425"

I don't have any 14-2 romex to compare it to and can't seem to locate
any print on the white romex I can read under the sink (even with a
flashlight). How wide is 14-2 typically (I couldn't find anything on the
web)? My limited experience and intuition is telling me I have 14-2
under my sink, but I hope it's not.

There is only one duplex outlet(GFCI)on the 20 Amp circuit besides the
garbage disposal. It wouldn't be a big deal to switch out the breaker
for one rated at 15 Amps if necessary.

Open an outlet in your bedroom, odds are it is 14 guage.

I think almost my whole house is wired with 12-2.


I learned that 12 gauge wire is supposed to be .0808" and that 14 guage
wire is supposed to be .0641".
I have some 12 gauge wire to compare to, and I think I have 14 guage
under the sink. I'll check when I remove the wire from the device
(which ain't as easy as it's supposed to be).

Bill

Bill

Bill wrote:

Thanks, I'll be double-checking because, according to the directions,
I forgot to put in a (romex cable) connector.

How does one "forget" to install a box connector?



--

-Mike-

Bill wrote:


Another chance to use my "trusty" Harbor Freight Centrum digital
caliper:
The white romex under my sink is about .37" wide (including the
insulation). My new yellow 12-2 romex is about .425"

Don't use your trusty caliper. Read the cable. The insulation used on
cable has changed a lot over the years and measuring it is of no value at
all.


I don't have any 14-2 romex to compare it to and can't seem to locate
any print on the white romex I can read under the sink (even with a
flashlight). How wide is 14-2 typically (I couldn't find anything on
the web)? My limited experience and intuition is telling me I have
14-2 under my sink, but I hope it's not.

Keep looking. It will be embossed on the sheath, all along its length.


--

-Mike-

FrozenNorth wrote:

Open an outlet in your bedroom, odds are it is 14 guage.

Cannot understand why you would say that. Odds are it is 12 ga.

--

-Mike-

Who would run aluminum to a bathroom though?


"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...
Cannot understand why you would say that. Odds are it is 12 ga.



FrozenNorth wrote:

Open an outlet in your bedroom, odds are it is 14 guage.

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:

Thanks, I'll be double-checking because, according to the directions,
I forgot to put in a (romex cable) connector.

How does one "forget" to install a box connector?

In my case, one didn't come in the carton and the previously unit didn't
have one? It didn't show up in the online videos I watched either.
I'll make it right... I may have to stretch the wire (joke) or put in
a junction box.

Doug Miller noticed 2 round boxes in my garage ceiling corresponding to
fluorescent lights where someone threaded the romex around the side of
the cover rather than put in a box connector. I'll make that right too.
These being quite out of reach, I'll do the one above first. Thank you
for your interest in helping me to get things right!

Regards,
Bill

Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:

Thanks, I'll be double-checking because, according to the
directions, I forgot to put in a (romex cable) connector.

How does one "forget" to install a box connector?

In my case, one didn't come in the carton and the previously unit
didn't have one? It didn't show up in the online videos I watched
either. I'll make it right... I may have to stretch the wire (joke)
or put in a junction box.


Were the online videos showing a plastic box? That would explain why there
was no box connector - none required. If they showed a metal box with no
box connector then those videos are absolutely useless. What about you
book - it surely must have told you to use a box connector with a metal
box - again - if that's what you have at hand.


--

-Mike-

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:

Thanks, I'll be double-checking because, according to the
directions, I forgot to put in a (romex cable) connector.

How does one "forget" to install a box connector?

In my case, one didn't come in the carton and the previously unit
didn't have one? It didn't show up in the online videos I watched
either. I'll make it right... I may have to stretch the wire (joke)
or put in a junction box.


Were the online videos showing a plastic box? That would explain why there
was no box connector - none required. If they showed a metal box with no
box connector then those videos are absolutely useless. What about you
book - it surely must have told you to use a box connector with a metal
box - again - if that's what you have at hand.


Remember, we were talking about a garbage disposal. I carefully wired up
the new one like the old one, not thinking that it might be wrong.
Then I realized it might not be right, looked at the directions, and
here we are... I'll try to get to it this weekend. Our garbage disposal
is not even used once per day, it should be okay until then.

Bill

Bill wrote:


Remember, we were talking about a garbage disposal. I carefully wired
up the new one like the old one, not thinking that it might be wrong.
Then I realized it might not be right, looked at the directions, and
here we are... I'll try to get to it this weekend. Our garbage
disposal is not even used once per day, it should be okay until then.


Good point - thanks for the correction on that Bill. So - it's just a
lesson to stick in your arsenal of information - every electrical connection
needs some sort of clamp for strain relief. From now on it's almost a sure
bet you will notice such things in existing wiring and it's not likely
you'll make this same mistake again.

--

-Mike-

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:


Remember, we were talking about a garbage disposal. I carefully wired
up the new one like the old one, not thinking that it might be wrong.
Then I realized it might not be right, looked at the directions, and
here we are... I'll try to get to it this weekend. Our garbage
disposal is not even used once per day, it should be okay until then.


Good point - thanks for the correction on that Bill. So - it's just a
lesson to stick in your arsenal of information - every electrical connection
needs some sort of clamp for strain relief. From now on it's almost a sure
bet you will notice such things in existing wiring and it's not likely
you'll make this same mistake again.


Yep. Thanks!

Bill

"Bill" wrote

There is only one duplex outlet(GFCI)on the 20 Amp circuit besides the
garbage disposal. It wouldn't be a big deal to switch out the breaker for
one rated at 15 Amps if necessary.

I would do that anyway. The GFCI is probably only rated at 15 amps, and so
probably the disposal. You don't need a 20 amp, and will better protect the
wire and the disposal.
--
Jim in NC

"Mike Marlow" wrote

Cannot understand why you would say that. Odds are it is 12 ga.

Why? Code only calls for 15 amp, 14 ga. in bedrooms.

If someone used 12, they were just being over-zealous.
--
Jim in NC

"Mike Marlow" wrote

Good point - thanks for the correction on that Bill. So - it's just a
lesson to stick in your arsenal of information - every electrical
connection needs some sort of clamp for strain relief. From now on it's
almost a sure bet you will notice such things in existing wiring and it's
not likely you'll make this same mistake again.

Also, he should realize that a staple holding the romex to the stud is
required within 6 inches of the box - for strain relief.
--
Jim in NC

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 22:39:09 -0400, "Morgans"
wrote:


"Bill" wrote

There is only one duplex outlet(GFCI)on the 20 Amp circuit besides the
garbage disposal. It wouldn't be a big deal to switch out the breaker for
one rated at 15 Amps if necessary.

I would do that anyway. The GFCI is probably only rated at 15 amps, and so
probably the disposal. You don't need a 20 amp, and will better protect the
wire and the disposal.

Like all outlets, even those with contacts rated for 15A, GFCIs are rated for
20A feed-through so can be put on 20A circuits without problems.

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 22:39:09 -0400,
wrote:


wrote

There is only one duplex outlet(GFCI)on the 20 Amp circuit besides the
garbage disposal. It wouldn't be a big deal to switch out the breaker for
one rated at 15 Amps if necessary.

I would do that anyway. The GFCI is probably only rated at 15 amps, and so
probably the disposal. You don't need a 20 amp, and will better protect the
wire and the disposal.

Like all outlets, even those with contacts rated for 15A, GFCIs are rated for
20A feed-through so can be put on 20A circuits without problems.

I installed the box connector on the garbage disposal tonight. I
measured one o the conductor wires with my digital caliper and then
compared it against some known 12 gauge wire I had just to make sure.
The conclusion is that I have 14 guage romex coming from my
GFCI-protected outlet and going to my garbage disposal. I guess I need
to swap out the 20 Amp circuit breaker for one that is 15 Amps...

BTW, it looks like I probably didn't need to put the nut on the box
connector since it screwed into the bottom of the garbage disposal, but
I put in on finger-tight anyway. What is the S.O.P. regarding the nut in
this case?

Bill

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
...
Opps, sticky finger time.

Make that $630, not $63 price difference for 3,000 ft of wire.

Still not a big deal at today's building prices.

Our tax dollars are being blown at less than that per pop. $630 here, $630
there, pretty soon you're talking real money. The only way a contractor
would spend the $630 if it produced an equivalent savings elsewhere or was
called for in the contract.

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Mike Marlow" wrote

Cannot understand why you would say that. Odds are it is 12 ga.

Why? Code only calls for 15 amp, 14 ga. in bedrooms.

If someone used 12, they were just being over-zealous.
--
Jim in NC

I never use #14 on house wiring, so I am over-zealous. My reason is that it
seems that down the road people change wiring and put larger loads on some
things without caring about what happens. Some wannabee jackleg or some
homeowner will go into the attic and see a hot wire and say, "ah! this one
is hot and good, I'll just use it". I have seen lampcords spliced and taped
to romex and crap like that. Not new to anyone here I am sure. Or maybe I
just don't like #14 because it is so flimsy feeling. I do know that some
electricians don't use #14 also. Technically, I am wrong.

Standardization.

So what is standard aabout using heavier wire than is called for? 15 amp
and 14 ga. is what is standard. 20 amp feeds are only required in a few
areas of a house. They are what is not standard.

Even in small quanties of 100 ft put ups, 14-2/W/ Ground is about $29
while 12-2/W/Ground is about $50 or a difference of $21/100 ft.

No self respecting contractor is going to buy wire in less than at least
2,000-3,000 ft at a time, so that price difference will drop.

Even if it doesn't, 3,000 ft of wire in a building only adds $63.

Price is only one part of the equation. Pulling the heavier wire and
working with it inside of boxes is a definite pain in the butt.

Go for it, if you want, but don't claim it is for standardization. Every
licensed electrician out there will argue with that.
--
Jim in NC

"Lew Hodgett" wrote

Add in the reduction of job site screw ups from installing the wrong wire
on the wrong run and the case for "one size fits all" starts looking
better and better.

If an electrician an his helpers can't keep running the correct wire
straight, they should look into a new career.

Give it up. Your argument is lame.
--
Jim in NC

"woodstuff" wrote in message
...

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Mike Marlow" wrote

Cannot understand why you would say that. Odds are it is 12 ga.

Why? Code only calls for 15 amp, 14 ga. in bedrooms.

If someone used 12, they were just being over-zealous.
--
Jim in NC

I never use #14 on house wiring, so I am over-zealous. My reason is that
it
seems that down the road people change wiring and put larger loads on some
things without caring about what happens. Some wannabee jackleg or some
homeowner will go into the attic and see a hot wire and say, "ah! this one
is hot and good, I'll just use it". I have seen lampcords spliced and
taped
to romex and crap like that. Not new to anyone here I am sure. Or maybe
I
just don't like #14 because it is so flimsy feeling. I do know that some
electricians don't use #14 also. Technically, I am wrong.

Unless the breaker is changed to a higher amperage, adding onto the circuit
will cause no more danger. It at most will be inconvenient with having to
reset a tripped breaker.

I sure don't know any licensed electricians that don't like 14 ga. wire.
Not one. As a contractor, I have known plenty.
--
Jim in NC

wrote

Like all outlets, even those with contacts rated for 15A, GFCIs are rated
for
20A feed-through so can be put on 20A circuits without problems.

Look again. Not all outlets are rated for 20 amps.
--
Jim in NC

In article , "Morgans" wrote:

"Mike Marlow" wrote

Good point - thanks for the correction on that Bill. So - it's just a
lesson to stick in your arsenal of information - every electrical
connection needs some sort of clamp for strain relief. From now on it's
almost a sure bet you will notice such things in existing wiring and it's
not likely you'll make this same mistake again.

Also, he should realize that a staple holding the romex to the stud is
required within 6 inches of the box - for strain relief.

No, it's not.

Morgans wrote:
"Bill" wrote

There is only one duplex outlet(GFCI)on the 20 Amp circuit besides
the garbage disposal. It wouldn't be a big deal to switch out the
breaker for one rated at 15 Amps if necessary.

I would do that anyway. The GFCI is probably only rated at 15 amps,
and so probably the disposal. You don't need a 20 amp, and will
better protect the wire and the disposal.

That's false logic to a point. Sure, putting a smaller breaker on any piece
of wire will protect it more than the rated breaker would, but why would
anyone do that? That's like saying that since I only plug floor lamps into
these outlets, and cell phone chargers into these outs, I'll install 5 Amp
breakers on those circuits. Sorta limits the use of those outlets.

--

-Mike-

On 8/28/2010 7:43 AM, Morgans wrote:
Standardization.

So what is standard about using heavier wire than is called for? 15 amp
and 14 ga. is what is standard. 20 amp feeds are only required in a few
areas of a house. They are what is not standard.

Not necessarily, and certainly not "standard" where I build ... 12ga is
the minimum allowed in residential construction around these parts and
you rarely see a 15A branch circuit, even for lighting in the most
inexpensively built home. AAMOF, I can't recall the last time I saw a
15A c'bkr in a 200A service panel.

So no, 14ga/15A is pretty much a thing of the past as "standard" IME.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 8/27/2010 9:45 PM, Morgans wrote:
"Mike wrote

Good point - thanks for the correction on that Bill. So - it's just a
lesson to stick in your arsenal of information - every electrical
connection needs some sort of clamp for strain relief. From now on it's
almost a sure bet you will notice such things in existing wiring and it's
not likely you'll make this same mistake again.

Also, he should realize that a staple holding the romex to the stud is
required within 6 inches of the box - for strain relief.

Check your tape measure ... your distance is wrong.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)