"Bill" wrote in message
...
zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:57:25 -0400, wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:51:48 -0400, wrote the
following:

I would like to test out the first outlet on each of the new circuits
I
added before I install insulation and drywall. I tested the
first one by actually installing an outlet, but I see little point in
wasting time/wire.

That doesn't waste wire. Why would it?!?

Because my book suggested I clip and restrip a wire once it's been "used".

What book are you using? Reason I ask is there is a Huge Recall of wiring
books published in the past ten or so years. You can find a list he

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml10/10104.html

951,000 Books!

"Hazard: The books contain errors in the technical diagrams and wiring
instructions that could lead consumers to incorrectly install or repair
electrical wiring, posing an electrical shock or fire hazard to consumers."

Holding volt meter leads on power pins won't arc.

The current is measured in micro-amps. The voltage will bite you if you
touch them - because you are a low resistance to current flow.

If you have bare wires - you can make them a bit longer and push the wires
into the back of a socket. You can cut them off if wanted. Or cheaper
you just screw a lead under each screw. Then the socket lasts longer.

A volt meter draws very low current. It is sampled. No arcing occurs.

220 volt is just higher voltage. maybe 220 micro-amps if it has 1Meg/volt
so it is just fine.

JUST BE SURE TO USE THE AC VOLTAGE scale. AC V

Martin


Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
"Our Republic and the Press will Rise or Fall Together": Joseph Pulitzer
TSRA: Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Originator & Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/

On 7/25/2010 10:51 PM, Bill wrote:
I would like to test out the first outlet on each of the new circuits I added
before I install insulation and drywall. I tested the
first one by actually installing an outlet, but I see little point in
wasting time/wire.

I was considering:

1) Taping the wires to my outlet tester with electrical tape and then flipping
the circuit breaker on (in anticipation of a green light from the outlet tester)

2) Holding the leads from my multi-meter to the ends of the wires. I MIGHT be
brave enough to do this if it was explained to me why I don't have to be
concerned about arc'ing.

It seems there is "more that could go wrong" in (2). What do you think?
BTW, I also have 220v wiring to test. I understand the state the
potentials of the 3 pairs of the 3 wires should have, I just wish to proceed in
a safe manner (without installing the outlet if possible).

Bill

Be more sure to plug the leads into the right sockets on the meter, no
matter what scale you use!




"Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message
...
Holding volt meter leads on power pins won't arc.

The current is measured in micro-amps. The voltage will bite you if you
touch them - because you are a low resistance to current flow.

If you have bare wires - you can make them a bit longer and push the wires
into the back of a socket. You can cut them off if wanted. Or cheaper
you just screw a lead under each screw. Then the socket lasts longer.

A volt meter draws very low current. It is sampled. No arcing occurs.

220 volt is just higher voltage. maybe 220 micro-amps if it has 1Meg/volt
so it is just fine.

JUST BE SURE TO USE THE AC VOLTAGE scale. AC V

Martin


Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
"Our Republic and the Press will Rise or Fall Together": Joseph Pulitzer
TSRA: Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Originator & Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/




On 7/25/2010 10:51 PM, Bill wrote:
I would like to test out the first outlet on each of the new circuits I
added
before I install insulation and drywall. I tested the
first one by actually installing an outlet, but I see little point in
wasting time/wire.

I was considering:

1) Taping the wires to my outlet tester with electrical tape and then
flipping
the circuit breaker on (in anticipation of a green light from the outlet
tester)

2) Holding the leads from my multi-meter to the ends of the wires. I MIGHT
be
brave enough to do this if it was explained to me why I don't have to be
concerned about arc'ing.

It seems there is "more that could go wrong" in (2). What do you think?
BTW, I also have 220v wiring to test. I understand the state the
potentials of the 3 pairs of the 3 wires should have, I just wish to
proceed in
a safe manner (without installing the outlet if possible).

Bill

Larry Jaques wrote:

Your wife was freaking out because you're so GHASTLY afraid of a
little electricity, Bill. Strooth!


That's not true. I approached the task very affirmatively.
Maybe it's the circuit-breaker switching that makes things seem serious?
BTW, I think a circuit amount of "respect" of electricity is called for.

Bill

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:


In software development, they call what I am doing "unit testing"--and
it pays good dividends. It is very difficult to get students to do it,
which, in the big picture, is ridiculous. It makes just as much sense
in my current circumstances which I think are completely analogous.
Some positive reinforcement from the circuits is nice too! : )


I work for a software development company Bill, so I well understand unit
testing. Since this is your first wiring attempt, it's understandable that
you want to take very small steps. Be encouraged though, that what you are
doing is common work done by lots of people every day, and you can justify
taking comfort in taking bigger steps. I'd suggest you move ahead and wire
in all of the outlets, energize the circuits, and use your tester to
validate them after you energize them. That might make a more analogous
unit test. The approach you are taking might be more analagous to testing
every line of code as it's written.


Yes. Remember too, that my first unit test--that off energizing the
subpanel without any circuits, found a "major bug" (clamp had created a
short-circuit). The advantage of finding it at that point was saved
significant development time.

Bill

Nova wrote:
Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:

Bill wrote:

I would like to test out the first outlet on each of the new circuits
I added before I install insulation and drywall. I tested the
first one by actually installing an outlet, but I see little point in
wasting time/wire.

I was considering:

1) Taping the wires to my outlet tester with electrical tape and then
flipping the circuit breaker on (in anticipation of a green light from
the outlet tester)

2) Holding the leads from my multi-meter to the ends of the wires. I
MIGHT be brave enough to do this if it was explained to me why I don't
have to be concerned about arc'ing.

It seems there is "more that could go wrong" in (2). What do you
think? BTW, I also have 220v wiring to test. I understand the state
the potentials of the 3 pairs of the 3 wires should have, I just wish
to proceed in a safe manner (without installing the outlet if
possible).


Go ahead and pull all of the wire to each outlet.


I pulled the wire to each electrical box, but I can't see installing
the outlets until after I have the drywall up. I just came home with
10 rolls of fiberglass insulation and a stapler, from Lowes. $90 for
the formaldehyde-free R-13 insulation--I don't think it's going to get
any better than that. A cool day would be welcome! : )

Bill

I did think there was any formaldehyde in glass?

From what I understand, it's 80% glass. Even the formaldehyde-free type
involves formaldehyde in the manufacturing--what they mean by
formaldehyde-free is that is doesn't "out-gas" formaldehyde-free under
typical conditions. Try putting it over the stove or burning it, and
you might get different results.

Bill

On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 19:16:45 -0700, "Lobby Dosser"
wrote the following:

"Bill" wrote in message
...
zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:57:25 -0400, wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:51:48 -0400, wrote the
following:

I would like to test out the first outlet on each of the new circuits
I
added before I install insulation and drywall. I tested the
first one by actually installing an outlet, but I see little point in
wasting time/wire.

That doesn't waste wire. Why would it?!?

Because my book suggested I clip and restrip a wire once it's been "used".

What book are you using? Reason I ask is there is a Huge Recall of wiring
books published in the past ten or so years. You can find a list he

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml10/10104.html

951,000 Books!

"Hazard: The books contain errors in the technical diagrams and wiring
instructions that could lead consumers to incorrectly install or repair
electrical wiring, posing an electrical shock or fire hazard to consumers."

I own one of the subject books and couldn't find the hazard they
referred to. shrug

--
It is pretty hard to tell what does bring happiness;
poverty and wealth have both failed.
-- Kin Hubbard

Scott Lurndal wrote:

I'll suggest that, while an experienced electrician can make the
judgement call as to whether wire should be restripped or not, an
inexperienced homeowner on his first job _should_ always restrip if
reusing an previously connected lead. Something as simple as a nick
when stripping will weaken the conductor sufficiently that subsequent
usage of a twist-on wire connector (e.g. wire nut) could create either
a high-resistance area on the conductor, or break the conductor
completely (when one uses a wire nut,

Now that's in the spirit of my book, "Stanley's Guide to Wiring" (for
any who think I make this stuff up)!


the insulated portion of the
conductors should be twisted together along with the uninsulated portion
to resist mechanical perturbations).

scott

That seems to make sense..

On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 23:41:09 -0400, Bill wrote the
following:

Larry Jaques wrote:

Your wife was freaking out because you're so GHASTLY afraid of a
little electricity, Bill. Strooth!


That's not true. I approached the task very affirmatively.

It looked here, via your text, as if you had on 3 pairs of gloves, a
fire extinguisher in either hand, and a full NOMEX suit before
installing a single insulated staple over a piece of Romex, Bill.
Perhaps it wasn't so, but it sure sounded like it. shrug


Maybe it's the circuit-breaker switching that makes things seem serious?

Are you that "respectful" of light switches, or pluging cords into
known good outlets?


BTW, I think a circuit amount of "respect" of electricity is called for.

I "circuitly" do, too, Bill. I even said so in the other part of that
post. Respect, not fear, as fear can lead you into other traps and is
inherently more dangerous than respect.

--
It is pretty hard to tell what does bring happiness;
poverty and wealth have both failed.
-- Kin Hubbard

Lobby Dosser wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
...
zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:57:25 -0400, wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:51:48 -0400, wrote the
following:

I would like to test out the first outlet on each of the new
circuits I
added before I install insulation and drywall. I tested the
first one by actually installing an outlet, but I see little point in
wasting time/wire.

That doesn't waste wire. Why would it?!?

Because my book suggested I clip and restrip a wire once it's been
"used".

What book are you using? Reason I ask is there is a Huge Recall of
wiring books published in the past ten or so years. You can find a list
he

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml10/10104.html

951,000 Books!

Yes, I bought my book after that list came out ("Stanley's Complete
Wiring"). The only technical details from the book that I relied on
were concerning the "wire space" of an electrical box. The book covers
a lot of ground for a home-owner, but none deeply. For instance, the
concept of "running boards" wasn't touched on. It's more of a "repair"
or "add a light or ceiling fan" book. The last 3 pages or so are
dedicated to adding a subpanel.

Bill

Larry Jaques wrote:

It looked here, via your text, as if you had on 3 pairs of gloves, a
fire extinguisher in either hand, and a full NOMEX suit before
installing a single insulated staple over a piece of Romex, Bill.
Perhaps it wasn't so, but it sure sounded like it.shrug

I wore one blue-nitrile glove. The fire-extinguisher was in the corner.
As I mentioned before, I think the blue-nitrile glove provides a false
sense of security. I confess to using both hands anyway in some cases,
I was calm as a cucumber.. : )

Larry, It's a good thing you weren't standing near my sub-panel the
first time I energized it. The short to the clamp caused a
not-so-subtle effect!

Bill

"Mike Marlow" wrote in
:

*trim*

And any nick sufficient to cause a problem inside a wirenut is very
easy for even the uninitiated to spot. If the wires are properly
pre-twisted with a pair of lineman's pliers, it will be immediately
obvious if there is a problem. it does not take an experienced eye to
do this stuff.


The easy way to check is just to bend it. If it's not going to flex,
it'll usually break right away.

Using the right hole on the wire stripper almost never nicks the wire bad
enough to cause a problem. Don't worry about it.

Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.

On to more practical concerns, I did about 1/3 of my insulation today.
My head was probably even more cautiously protected than Larry described
me earlier: respiratory mask, ordinary glasses, goggles, ear muffs, and
a baseball hat. I wore a long-sleeve flannel shirt in spite of the 90+
degree temperature.

My wrists and forearms were my only appendages to report the presence of
any fiberglass.

Do you have an easy way to protect those areas?

How was I to know that those socks with holes might come in handy?
Regrettably, I've thrown mine away, like throwing money out the
window... : )

Bill

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 19:16:45 -0700, "Lobby Dosser"
wrote the following:

"Bill" wrote in message
...
zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:57:25 -0400, wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:51:48 -0400, wrote the
following:

I would like to test out the first outlet on each of the new
circuits
I
added before I install insulation and drywall. I tested the
first one by actually installing an outlet, but I see little point
in
wasting time/wire.

That doesn't waste wire. Why would it?!?

Because my book suggested I clip and restrip a wire once it's been
"used".

What book are you using? Reason I ask is there is a Huge Recall of wiring
books published in the past ten or so years. You can find a list he

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml10/10104.html

951,000 Books!

"Hazard: The books contain errors in the technical diagrams and wiring
instructions that could lead consumers to incorrectly install or repair
electrical wiring, posing an electrical shock or fire hazard to
consumers."

I own one of the subject books and couldn't find the hazard they
referred to. shrug

So do I, but I already have the envelope to send it back.

"Bill" wrote in message
...
Lobby Dosser wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
...
zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:57:25 -0400, wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:51:48 -0400, wrote the
following:

I would like to test out the first outlet on each of the new
circuits I
added before I install insulation and drywall. I tested the
first one by actually installing an outlet, but I see little point
in
wasting time/wire.

That doesn't waste wire. Why would it?!?

Because my book suggested I clip and restrip a wire once it's been
"used".

What book are you using? Reason I ask is there is a Huge Recall of
wiring books published in the past ten or so years. You can find a list
he

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml10/10104.html

951,000 Books!

Yes, I bought my book after that list came out ("Stanley's Complete
Wiring"). The only technical details from the book that I relied on were
concerning the "wire space" of an electrical box. The book covers
a lot of ground for a home-owner, but none deeply. For instance, the
concept of "running boards" wasn't touched on. It's more of a "repair" or
"add a light or ceiling fan" book. The last 3 pages or so are dedicated
to adding a subpanel.

Bill

Didn't your subpanel just short out?

Lobby Dosser wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
...
Lobby Dosser wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
...
zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:57:25 -0400, wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:51:48 -0400, wrote the
following:

I would like to test out the first outlet on each of the new
circuits I
added before I install insulation and drywall. I tested the
first one by actually installing an outlet, but I see little
point in
wasting time/wire.

That doesn't waste wire. Why would it?!?

Because my book suggested I clip and restrip a wire once it's been
"used".

What book are you using? Reason I ask is there is a Huge Recall of
wiring books published in the past ten or so years. You can find a list
he

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml10/10104.html

951,000 Books!

Yes, I bought my book after that list came out ("Stanley's Complete
Wiring"). The only technical details from the book that I relied on
were concerning the "wire space" of an electrical box. The book covers
a lot of ground for a home-owner, but none deeply. For instance, the
concept of "running boards" wasn't touched on. It's more of a "repair"
or "add a light or ceiling fan" book. The last 3 pages or so are
dedicated to adding a subpanel.

Bill

Didn't your subpanel just short out?

Yes, You can read the complete story here.

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

To my surprise, it only took me 30 minutes to diagnose and fix it.
What is your point, that I should have bought a different book?

Bill

On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 00:50:57 -0700, "Lobby Dosser"
wrote the following:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message

I own one of the subject books and couldn't find the hazard they
referred to. shrug

So do I, but I already have the envelope to send it back.

If so, why give the speaking weasels satisfaction and cause grief to
the company for no cause?

--
It is pretty hard to tell what does bring happiness;
poverty and wealth have both failed.
-- Kin Hubbard

On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 00:43:44 -0400, Bill wrote the
following:

Larry Jaques wrote:

It looked here, via your text, as if you had on 3 pairs of gloves, a
fire extinguisher in either hand, and a full NOMEX suit before
installing a single insulated staple over a piece of Romex, Bill.
Perhaps it wasn't so, but it sure sounded like it.shrug

I wore one blue-nitrile glove. The fire-extinguisher was in the corner.

One glove would prevent a cross-body short, the more deadly type. But
a pair might prevent you from frying a finger or hand. I'm truly
surprised that you wore only one glove, or was that one of the steps
in the book? (Your Sparky's Bible?)


As I mentioned before, I think the blue-nitrile glove provides a false
sense of security. I confess to using both hands anyway in some cases,
I was calm as a cucumber.. : )

Whassat? Green as a cuke?


Larry, It's a good thing you weren't standing near my sub-panel the
first time I energized it. The short to the clamp caused a
not-so-subtle effect!

Was your wife standing in the room? BTW, how'd the clamp manage to
short? Got JPGs? Any possibility of that should have been designed
out of panels eons ago. What brand is it?

--
It is pretty hard to tell what does bring happiness;
poverty and wealth have both failed.
-- Kin Hubbard

Bill wrote:


Yes. Remember too, that my first unit test--that off energizing the
subpanel without any circuits, found a "major bug" (clamp had created
a short-circuit). The advantage of finding it at that point was saved
significant development time.


Maybe not so much. If you had roughed in all of the wiring, your initial
turn up of the panel would still have revealed the problem. You had pretty
clean cut evidence of your problem area - which is what one would expect at
this stage of the project. Your time investment would have been the same if
you had done a block of work (complete rough in). But - whatever makes you
comfortable.

--

-Mike-

On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 04:25:51 -0400, Bill wrote the
following:

Lobby Dosser wrote:
Didn't your subpanel just short out?

Yes, You can read the complete story here.

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

To my surprise, it only took me 30 minutes to diagnose and fix it.
What is your point, that I should have bought a different book?

Oh, it wasn't the panel which caused the problem, it was a simple
newbie installer error. Nice scary one, too, huh? g

I can just picture you telling your wife "But there were threads left,
so I just kept tightening..." wink

--
It is pretty hard to tell what does bring happiness;
poverty and wealth have both failed.
-- Kin Hubbard

On 28 Jul 2010 05:18:07 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote the following:

"Mike Marlow" wrote in
:

*trim*

And any nick sufficient to cause a problem inside a wirenut is very
easy for even the uninitiated to spot. If the wires are properly
pre-twisted with a pair of lineman's pliers, it will be immediately
obvious if there is a problem. it does not take an experienced eye to
do this stuff.


The easy way to check is just to bend it. If it's not going to flex,
it'll usually break right away.

Using the right hole on the wire stripper almost never nicks the wire bad
enough to cause a problem. Don't worry about it.

Given that probably 80% of all stripping is done with a pair of dykes,
one prone to worry might have a go at it. titter

--
It is pretty hard to tell what does bring happiness;
poverty and wealth have both failed.
-- Kin Hubbard

Lobby Dosser wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
...
Lobby Dosser wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
...
zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:57:25 -0400, wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:51:48 -0400, wrote
the following:

I would like to test out the first outlet on each of the new
circuits I
added before I install insulation and drywall. I tested the
first one by actually installing an outlet, but I see little
point in
wasting time/wire.

That doesn't waste wire. Why would it?!?

Because my book suggested I clip and restrip a wire once it's been
"used".

What book are you using? Reason I ask is there is a Huge Recall of
wiring books published in the past ten or so years. You can find a
list he

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml10/10104.html

951,000 Books!

Yes, I bought my book after that list came out ("Stanley's Complete
Wiring"). The only technical details from the book that I relied on
were concerning the "wire space" of an electrical box. The book
covers a lot of ground for a home-owner, but none deeply. For instance,
the
concept of "running boards" wasn't touched on. It's more of a
"repair" or "add a light or ceiling fan" book. The last 3 pages or
so are dedicated to adding a subpanel.

Bill

Didn't your subpanel just short out?

Yeahbbut you have to be fair about this Lobby - that was due to error on
Bill's part, not on anything published in the book. Books can only tell a
person how to do something - they can't control how that person does it.
That said, I've never looked at the book, so I don't have any clue what may
be mis-stated within it that could be cause for concern.

--

-Mike-

Mike Marlow wrote:
Lobby Dosser wrote:
wrote in message
...
Lobby Dosser wrote:
wrote in message
...
zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:57:25 -0400, wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:51:48 -0400, wrote
the following:

I would like to test out the first outlet on each of the new
circuits I
added before I install insulation and drywall. I tested the
first one by actually installing an outlet, but I see little
point in
wasting time/wire.

That doesn't waste wire. Why would it?!?

Because my book suggested I clip and restrip a wire once it's been
"used".

What book are you using? Reason I ask is there is a Huge Recall of
wiring books published in the past ten or so years. You can find a
list he

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml10/10104.html

951,000 Books!

Yes, I bought my book after that list came out ("Stanley's Complete
Wiring"). The only technical details from the book that I relied on
were concerning the "wire space" of an electrical box. The book
covers a lot of ground for a home-owner, but none deeply. For instance,
the
concept of "running boards" wasn't touched on. It's more of a
"repair" or "add a light or ceiling fan" book. The last 3 pages or
so are dedicated to adding a subpanel.

Bill

Didn't your subpanel just short out?

Yeahbbut you have to be fair about this Lobby - that was due to error on
Bill's part, not on anything published in the book. Books can only tell a
person how to do something - they can't control how that person does it.
That said, I've never looked at the book, so I don't have any clue what may
be mis-stated within it that could be cause for concern.


FWIW, I think the primary problem was the result of the way I put the
cable, which had triangular cross-section under the clamp (one vertex
up is "bad"). I really didn't bear down on it. I made it right (see my
web page if interested).

Bill

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 00:50:57 -0700, "Lobby Dosser"
wrote the following:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message

I own one of the subject books and couldn't find the hazard they
referred to. shrug

So do I, but I already have the envelope to send it back.

If so, why give the speaking weasels satisfaction and cause grief to
the company for no cause?

Because I don't have the experience to Know with assurance which
instructions are flawed. That's why I bought a book!

"Bill" wrote in message
...
Lobby Dosser wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
...
Lobby Dosser wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
...
zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:57:25 -0400, wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:51:48 -0400, wrote the
following:

I would like to test out the first outlet on each of the new
circuits I
added before I install insulation and drywall. I tested the
first one by actually installing an outlet, but I see little
point in
wasting time/wire.

That doesn't waste wire. Why would it?!?

Because my book suggested I clip and restrip a wire once it's been
"used".

What book are you using? Reason I ask is there is a Huge Recall of
wiring books published in the past ten or so years. You can find a list
he

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml10/10104.html

951,000 Books!

Yes, I bought my book after that list came out ("Stanley's Complete
Wiring"). The only technical details from the book that I relied on
were concerning the "wire space" of an electrical box. The book covers
a lot of ground for a home-owner, but none deeply. For instance, the
concept of "running boards" wasn't touched on. It's more of a "repair"
or "add a light or ceiling fan" book. The last 3 pages or so are
dedicated to adding a subpanel.

Bill

Didn't your subpanel just short out?

Yes, You can read the complete story here.

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

To my surprise, it only took me 30 minutes to diagnose and fix it.
What is your point, that I should have bought a different book?

Maybe the instructions were flawed?

Lobby Dosser wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
...
Lobby Dosser wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
...
Lobby Dosser wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
...
zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:57:25 -0400, wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:51:48 -0400, wrote
the
following:

I would like to test out the first outlet on each of the new
circuits I
added before I install insulation and drywall. I tested the
first one by actually installing an outlet, but I see little
point in
wasting time/wire.

That doesn't waste wire. Why would it?!?

Because my book suggested I clip and restrip a wire once it's been
"used".

What book are you using? Reason I ask is there is a Huge Recall of
wiring books published in the past ten or so years. You can find a
list
he

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml10/10104.html

951,000 Books!

Yes, I bought my book after that list came out ("Stanley's Complete
Wiring"). The only technical details from the book that I relied on
were concerning the "wire space" of an electrical box. The book covers
a lot of ground for a home-owner, but none deeply. For instance, the
concept of "running boards" wasn't touched on. It's more of a "repair"
or "add a light or ceiling fan" book. The last 3 pages or so are
dedicated to adding a subpanel.

Bill

Didn't your subpanel just short out?

Yes, You can read the complete story here.

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

To my surprise, it only took me 30 minutes to diagnose and fix it.
What is your point, that I should have bought a different book?

Maybe the instructions were flawed?

I'd say they were incomplete. You think I should sue for the anxiety
they caused me?

"Bill" wrote in message
...
Lobby Dosser wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
...
Lobby Dosser wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
...
Lobby Dosser wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
...
zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:57:25 -0400, wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:51:48 -0400, wrote
the
following:

I would like to test out the first outlet on each of the new
circuits I
added before I install insulation and drywall. I tested the
first one by actually installing an outlet, but I see little
point in
wasting time/wire.

That doesn't waste wire. Why would it?!?

Because my book suggested I clip and restrip a wire once it's been
"used".

What book are you using? Reason I ask is there is a Huge Recall of
wiring books published in the past ten or so years. You can find a
list
he

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml10/10104.html

951,000 Books!

Yes, I bought my book after that list came out ("Stanley's Complete
Wiring"). The only technical details from the book that I relied on
were concerning the "wire space" of an electrical box. The book covers
a lot of ground for a home-owner, but none deeply. For instance, the
concept of "running boards" wasn't touched on. It's more of a "repair"
or "add a light or ceiling fan" book. The last 3 pages or so are
dedicated to adding a subpanel.

Bill

Didn't your subpanel just short out?

Yes, You can read the complete story here.

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

To my surprise, it only took me 30 minutes to diagnose and fix it.
What is your point, that I should have bought a different book?

Maybe the instructions were flawed?

I'd say they were incomplete. You think I should sue for the anxiety they
caused me?


No.

Lobby Dosser wrote:

To my surprise, it only took me 30 minutes to diagnose and fix it.
What is your point, that I should have bought a different book?

Maybe the instructions were flawed?

I'd say they were incomplete. You think I should sue for the anxiety
they caused me?


No.

Well, I noticed you've been posting here at least 5 years, and me just
1 year, so I'll defer to your judgment and experience concerning the
matter. BTW, putting up insulation in 90 degree temperatures is sort
of horrible--mostly after my goggles get fogged up. I'm half-way done
with it.

Bill

On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 21:30:18 -0700, "Lobby Dosser"
wrote the following:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 00:50:57 -0700, "Lobby Dosser"
wrote the following:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message

I own one of the subject books and couldn't find the hazard they
referred to. shrug

So do I, but I already have the envelope to send it back.

If so, why give the speaking weasels satisfaction and cause grief to
the company for no cause?

Because I don't have the experience to Know with assurance which
instructions are flawed. That's why I bought a book!

I generally find that books only reinforce the concepts I had brought
to the table, and I thought that most of us who enjoy working with out
hands were that way. Through our general sense of curiosity, we
sought out information and cataloged it, and when a book was bought,
it was merely icing on the cake, bringing all the previous tidbits
together in perfect clarity. YMMV.

--
It is pretty hard to tell what does bring happiness;
poverty and wealth have both failed.
-- Kin Hubbard

On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 04:02:17 -0400, Bill wrote the
following:

Lobby Dosser wrote:

To my surprise, it only took me 30 minutes to diagnose and fix it.
What is your point, that I should have bought a different book?

Maybe the instructions were flawed?

I'd say they were incomplete. You think I should sue for the anxiety
they caused me?


No.

Well, I noticed you've been posting here at least 5 years, and me just
1 year, so I'll defer to your judgment and experience concerning the
matter. BTW, putting up insulation in 90 degree temperatures is sort
of horrible--mostly after my goggles get fogged up. I'm half-way done
with it.

2 solutions a

1) Do it in the early morning (or middle of the night), when it's
cooler.
or
2) Install the window air conditioner now and work in the coolth.

Fans help if you're too cheap for the latter, both for evaporative
cooling of the bod and for forcing air into the goggles to keep them
more clear. Full-face respirators work, too, if you have one. They're
about a $100 investment otherwise.

--
It is pretty hard to tell what does bring happiness;
poverty and wealth have both failed.
-- Kin Hubbard

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 21:30:18 -0700, "Lobby Dosser"
wrote the following:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 00:50:57 -0700, "Lobby Dosser"
wrote the following:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message

I own one of the subject books and couldn't find the hazard they
referred to. shrug

So do I, but I already have the envelope to send it back.

If so, why give the speaking weasels satisfaction and cause grief to
the company for no cause?

Because I don't have the experience to Know with assurance which
instructions are flawed. That's why I bought a book!

I generally find that books only reinforce the concepts I had brought
to the table, and I thought that most of us who enjoy working with out
hands were that way. Through our general sense of curiosity, we
sought out information and cataloged it, and when a book was bought,
it was merely icing on the cake, bringing all the previous tidbits
together in perfect clarity. YMMV.

Yeah, but I have very little practical experience with electrical work.

"Bill" wrote in message
...
Lobby Dosser wrote:

To my surprise, it only took me 30 minutes to diagnose and fix it.
What is your point, that I should have bought a different book?

Maybe the instructions were flawed?

I'd say they were incomplete. You think I should sue for the anxiety
they caused me?


No.

Well, I noticed you've been posting here at least 5 years, and me just
1 year, so I'll defer to your judgment and experience concerning the
matter.

On whether or not to sue?

And 5 years of posting does not mean better judgement or experience in
Anything. Well, my typing skills have improved ...

BTW, putting up insulation in 90 degree temperatures is sort
of horrible--mostly after my goggles get fogged up.

I feel your pain!

I'm half-way done with it.

Bill

On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:45:28 -0700, "Lobby Dosser"
wrote the following:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 21:30:18 -0700, "Lobby Dosser"
wrote the following:
Because I don't have the experience to Know with assurance which
instructions are flawed. That's why I bought a book!

I generally find that books only reinforce the concepts I had brought
to the table, and I thought that most of us who enjoy working with out
hands were that way. Through our general sense of curiosity, we
sought out information and cataloged it, and when a book was bought,
it was merely icing on the cake, bringing all the previous tidbits
together in perfect clarity. YMMV.

Yeah, but I have very little practical experience with electrical work.

What's to know about 3 little wires and 2 little voltages? chortle
Besides, ya gotcher book to refer to. Once read, you should have no
questions, right? ;^)

--
It is pretty hard to tell what does bring happiness;
poverty and wealth have both failed.
-- Kin Hubbard

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:45:28 -0700, "Lobby Dosser"
wrote the following:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 21:30:18 -0700, "Lobby Dosser"
wrote the following:
Because I don't have the experience to Know with assurance which
instructions are flawed. That's why I bought a book!

I generally find that books only reinforce the concepts I had brought
to the table, and I thought that most of us who enjoy working with out
hands were that way. Through our general sense of curiosity, we
sought out information and cataloged it, and when a book was bought,
it was merely icing on the cake, bringing all the previous tidbits
together in perfect clarity. YMMV.

Yeah, but I have very little practical experience with electrical work.

What's to know about 3 little wires and 2 little voltages? chortle
Besides, ya gotcher book to refer to. Once read, you should have no
questions, right? ;^)

Thirty some years ago, while adjusting the temperature of the water heater,
I welded a screwdriver to one of the little wires.


--
It is pretty hard to tell what does bring happiness;
poverty and wealth have both failed.
-- Kin Hubbard

Lobby Dosser wrote:

What's to know about 3 little wires and 2 little voltages? chortle
Besides, ya gotcher book to refer to. Once read, you should have no
questions, right? ;^)

Thirty some years ago, while adjusting the temperature of the water
heater, I welded a screwdriver to one of the little wires.


It's amazing how some memories stay with ya...

On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 00:34:50 -0700, "Lobby Dosser"
wrote the following:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
What's to know about 3 little wires and 2 little voltages? chortle
Besides, ya gotcher book to refer to. Once read, you should have no
questions, right? ;^)

Thirty some years ago, while adjusting the temperature of the water heater,
I welded a screwdriver to one of the little wires.

Yeah, about 35 years ago, I "saw the sun" on the back of a 240v power
supply on a 50a breaker in the Engineering lab at SouthCom (not the
military one, but an early freq synth manpack radio builder.) when my
screwdriver became the conduit for that bit of power. I was QA and in
their lab as a favor, and they were NOT amused. It seems that I had
forgotten to turn off that circuit breaker on the bench before
removing that first wire from the p/s. It flipped up and hit the
second via the screwdriver when I realized my error. Luckily, I didn't
soil the stool in the Engineering Lab that day, but it was close.

BUT WE LEARNED OUR LESSONS, DIDN'T WE, AND NEVER DID THAT AGAIN?

--
To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle.
-- Confucius

Larry Jaques wrote:

Yeah, about 35 years ago, I "saw the sun" on the back of a 240v power
supply on a 50a breaker in the Engineering lab at SouthCom (not the
military one, but an early freq synth manpack radio builder.) when my
screwdriver became the conduit for that bit of power.

You ought to see the flash as a Crescent wrench is vaporized after being
dropped across the buss bars (not by me but by a co-worker) being fed by
a string of 48 batteries similar to those depicted in:

http://www.relocationspecialists.org/bat/cells.jpg

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 00:34:50 -0700, "Lobby Dosser"
wrote the following:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
What's to know about 3 little wires and 2 little voltages? chortle
Besides, ya gotcher book to refer to. Once read, you should have no
questions, right? ;^)

Thirty some years ago, while adjusting the temperature of the water
heater,
I welded a screwdriver to one of the little wires.

Yeah, about 35 years ago, I "saw the sun" on the back of a 240v power
supply on a 50a breaker in the Engineering lab at SouthCom (not the
military one, but an early freq synth manpack radio builder.) when my
screwdriver became the conduit for that bit of power. I was QA and in
their lab as a favor, and they were NOT amused. It seems that I had
forgotten to turn off that circuit breaker on the bench before
removing that first wire from the p/s. It flipped up and hit the
second via the screwdriver when I realized my error. Luckily, I didn't
soil the stool in the Engineering Lab that day, but it was close.

BUT WE LEARNED OUR LESSONS, DIDN'T WE, AND NEVER DID THAT AGAIN?

I make it a point to turn off breakers and Test the circuit before putting
fingers or screw drivers or whatever near the little wires.

--
To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of
principle.
-- Confucius

On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 16:44:34 -0400, Nova wrote
the following:

Larry Jaques wrote:

Yeah, about 35 years ago, I "saw the sun" on the back of a 240v power
supply on a 50a breaker in the Engineering lab at SouthCom (not the
military one, but an early freq synth manpack radio builder.) when my
screwdriver became the conduit for that bit of power.

You ought to see the flash as a Crescent wrench is vaporized after being
dropped across the buss bars (not by me but by a co-worker) being fed by
a string of 48 batteries similar to those depicted in:

http://www.relocationspecialists.org/bat/cells.jpg

I have a sneaking suspicion that I'd -not- like to be in the same room
at the time any similar incident took place, thankyouverymuch.

--
To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle.
-- Confucius

Having put up most of my drywall, I have left a few gaps that are too
big (for instance, next to my plastic electrical boxes). At least one of
these gaps is at least 3/8" wide (and 4" long). My current plan is to
"glue in" a small block of drywall using my heavier joint compound, and
then build that up--allowing it to dry in between layers.

Is this approach likely to be successful (w/tape?)?

Thank you for your thoughts.

Bill