"Bill" wrote

1) Can I, in good conscience, use traditional "paper joint tape
"through-out my project, or should I be using fiberglass tape at butted
joints and wider joints?

I have used paper tape only, since I used some fiberglass on a room in my
own house. On contracted houses, I tend to use drywall finishing
subcontractors. I will never use fiberglass again. Reasons a

Fiberglass is very easy to sand too thin, (especially on butted joints) and
then the pattern of the weave stands out very clearly. The only way to not
make it look like **** is to put yet another coat on top of what you thought
was finished, and sand more lightly. After a year of temp and humidity
changes, it seems as though the mud between the sheets pushed out and left a
ridge, right through the fiberglass. Bummer. Put up with it, or apply more
mud and paint whole wall again, so it does not looked patched. BIG bummer.
I have never seen this happen with paper tape. Never. If you sand too far
with paper, it starts to warn you with a fuzzy paper appearance. Easy to
stop at that point, and not have to add more mud, or at most add a very
small amount in a few small places.

The arguement for leaving more space is unfounded, in my opinion. Everyone
has opinions, like assholes, some stink more than others. If you use paper,
you will have at least a sixteenth inch of mud over top of the tape in order
to have a good tapered butt finish. That is enough. Squeeze mud firmly
down into the crack that is there, and don't worry about it. Trust me, the
pros don't worry about it, and that includes the good pros.

If the paper on the edge of your butt is a little loose from the rock, use a
knife to cut a small taper, or champher (sp?) down the loose edge, so the
loose paper will be gone. That is the maximum you should need to do to get
a good professional finish. If both sheets are nailed well enough, there
will not be more movement that a sixteenth of surface mud can handle, and
hold up forever.

So, is it clear which I think you should use? I hope so. (this is a)
Strong opinion from me, and I do not hold strong opinions about everything.
Some things do not matter (in my opinion) and this is not one of them. Do
it my way or you will live to regret it, if you are a perfectionist. That
is in my opinion, I would add.

Now, does mine stink, or is it one of the ones that smell of roses? g
I've decided "Stanley's Complete Drywall" book didn't really help me very
much at all. In retrospect, I probably should have bought a book
on "finishing".

2) One place I looked today online suggested leaving plenty of space, and
using angled cuts between butted drywall ends, and even using fiberglass
joint tape too add more strength. Stanley's book didn't discuss any of
these issues. The butted ends of my drywall are pretty close and I was
contemplating whether to chip away at them with box-cutter and whether to
use fiberglass joint tape on them.


Now, as Yogi Berra might say, I'm ready to start but I'm not ready to
start...

Bill

On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 17:33:04 -0400, Bill wrote:

1) Can I, in good conscience, use traditional "paper joint tape
"through-out my project, or should I be using fiberglass tape at butted
joints and wider joints?

Use fg tape only on flat, vertical, horizontal, butt, or corner joints
and paper on all others.


I've decided "Stanley's Complete Drywall" book didn't really help me
very much at all. In retrospect, I probably should have bought a book
on "finishing".

See? I posted a title and you didn't even look at it.
http://fwd4.me/Lvk


2) One place I looked today online suggested leaving plenty of space,
and using angled cuts between butted drywall ends, and even using
fiberglass joint tape too add more strength. Stanley's book didn't
discuss any of these issues. The butted ends of my drywall are pretty
close and I was contemplating whether to chip away at them with
box-cutter and whether to use fiberglass joint tape on them.

I see.


Now, as Yogi Berra might say, I'm ready to start but I'm not ready to
start...

Oh, you're just being a Bill. snicker

Morgans wrote:

If you use paper,
you will have at least a sixteenth inch of mud over top of the tape in order
to have a good tapered butt finish. That is enough. Squeeze mud firmly
down into the crack that is there, and don't worry about it. Trust me, the
pros don't worry about it, and that includes the good pros.

That is sufficient enough for me to act on.


Now, as Yogi Berra might say, I'm ready to start but I'm not ready to
start...


Okay, Now I'm ready to start, but it's too dark...
It sure get's late early around here! : )

Thank you for your help!
Bill

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 17:33:04 -0400, wrote:

1) Can I, in good conscience, use traditional "paper joint tape
"through-out my project, or should I be using fiberglass tape at butted
joints and wider joints?

Use fg tape only on flat, vertical, horizontal, butt, or corner joints
and paper on all others.


I've decided "Stanley's Complete Drywall" book didn't really help me
very much at all. In retrospect, I probably should have bought a book
on "finishing".

See? I posted a title and you didn't even look at it.
http://fwd4.me/Lvk


Larry, You REALLY DID motivate me to buy a book.
I didn't think I needed a finishing book until after I finished reading
it! ;; ))

I got my $13-worth out of Stanley's book, but I'll bet the book you
suggested was better. Stanley's book was sitting right there at Menards
with the drywall tools... Location, location, location.


Now, as Yogi Berra might say, I'm ready to start but I'm not ready to
start...

Oh, you're just being a Bill.snicker
I got my mud and my bucket and it's 90+ degrees...It will be like a day
at the beach! But it won't be too cool if it's too hot.

I gotta give up on the duck commercials...

Bill wrote in :

*snip*

Okay, Now I'm ready to start, but it's too dark...
It sure get's late early around here! : )

Thank you for your help!
Bill

Didn't you wire in a couple of lights? Wasn't that the whole point of the
project? ;-)

(Ooh, another excuse. Forgot bulbs and the store's closed.)

Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.

You are supposed to read more than just the "Why You Should Buy This Book"
chapter.



"Bill" wrote in message
...
Larry, You REALLY DID motivate me to buy a book.
I didn't think I needed a finishing book until after I finished reading
it! ;; ))

Puckdropper wrote:
wrote in :

*snip*

Okay, Now I'm ready to start, but it's too dark...
It sure get's late early around here! : )

Thank you for your help!
Bill

Didn't you wire in a couple of lights? Wasn't that the whole point of the
project? ;-)

(Ooh, another excuse. Forgot bulbs and the store's closed.)

Puck,

You missed my Yogi Berra-ism. ; ) I kept busy for a couple hours.
I didn't add any new lighting yet though--just wires and a switch (not
currently attached). The starting point of the project was to add
electrical capability. It's funny you think of me as an "excuse person";
few do.

Bill


Puckdropper

Bill wrote in :

Puckdropper wrote:
wrote in :

*snip*

Okay, Now I'm ready to start, but it's too dark...
It sure get's late early around here! : )

Thank you for your help!
Bill

Didn't you wire in a couple of lights? Wasn't that the whole point
of the project? ;-)

(Ooh, another excuse. Forgot bulbs and the store's closed.)

Puck,

You missed my Yogi Berra-ism. ; ) I kept busy for a couple hours.
I didn't add any new lighting yet though--just wires and a switch (not
currently attached). The starting point of the project was to add
electrical capability. It's funny you think of me as an "excuse
person"; few do.

Bill


Puckdropper



I'm just giving you a hard time. Sorry that my tone of voice didn't
carry over the text well... I should have thrown in a few more emoticons.

Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.

On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 23:08:06 -0400, Bill wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 17:33:04 -0400, wrote:

1) Can I, in good conscience, use traditional "paper joint tape
"through-out my project, or should I be using fiberglass tape at butted
joints and wider joints?

Use fg tape only on flat, vertical, horizontal, butt, or corner joints
and paper on all others.

What, no comment on that little tidbit, Bill? titter


I've decided "Stanley's Complete Drywall" book didn't really help me
very much at all. In retrospect, I probably should have bought a book
on "finishing".

See? I posted a title and you didn't even look at it.
http://fwd4.me/Lvk


Larry, You REALLY DID motivate me to buy a book.
I didn't think I needed a finishing book until after I finished reading
it! ;; ))

Umm, hmm.


I got my $13-worth out of Stanley's book, but I'll bet the book you
suggested was better. Stanley's book was sitting right there at Menards
with the drywall tools... Location, location, location.

Yeah, I know all about instant gratification taking too long, but with
books, ya gotta go with what looks like it'll work for you. I research
books at Amazon, usually reading at least a handful of pages, plus the
index and TOC for each one. Only then do I buy. Most spot purchases
bite me in the butt, as yours just did. Condolences.


Now, as Yogi Berra might say, I'm ready to start but I'm not ready to
start...

Oh, you're just being a Bill.snicker
I got my mud and my bucket and it's 90+ degrees...It will be like a day
at the beach! But it won't be too cool if it's too hot.

I quit working on my back patio roof when my t-shirt got soaked with
sweat this afternoon at 1pm. I'm reroofing it and changing the angle
so the roof slopes lower at the outer end. The idiot who installed it
had it damnear level with the junction to the house roof the lowest
spot. It drained into the gutters on either side of itself.

It was only 85, but the hummerditty was up at 41%, so it was too muggy
for my taste. I prefer 15-26%, max.


I gotta give up on the duck commercials...

I gave up TV 3.5 years ago and have absolutely no idea what you're
talking about. And I never watched baseball, so I dunno 'but Berra,
either.

--
Invest in America: Buy a CONgresscritter today!

Puckdropper wrote:

I'm just giving you a hard time. Sorry that my tone of voice didn't
carry over the text well... I should have thrown in a few more emoticons.

Puckdropper

That's good. Yes, emoticons say a lot.

I got all of my vertical joints taped today. The first one came out
pretty good, and the second one was looking pretty good. Then I saw a
"speck" at the top of it which I tried to sweep away. That didn't work
out, and I then needed to sweep it vertically, and in an amazing short
period of time after that I had my 8" knife out removing the tape and
mud to start it all over from the beginning. One has to keep a sense of
humor... Morgans reminded me about this issue, and I remembered it
since the last time I played with mud 30 years ago. The phrase "quit
when you're ahead" is helpful to keep in mind!

I needed to remove one other joint completely because it had bubbles.
The 9' inside corner seem to go up really well, although I did it with
two shorter pieces of tape. Maybe it went well because "quit when you're
ahead" had already been burnt into my brain by then.

I have to mix some Durabond 90 for some of my wider joints tomorrow.
Anyone have any recipes (I didn't see any on the bag) for thick or thin
that they can share? I'm guessing it's something like 1 part water to
3-5 parts Durabond, but I would prefer a recipe. I'm planning to mix it
with a paint stick. This will get the job done, won't it?

Tomorrow I'm going to try to break the habit of cleaning my drywall
knife on my jeans...

Bill

Morgans wrote:
wrote

for a 3/8" gap I'd just use some "Durabond 90" with tape to fill the area
and forget about the small blocks of drywall.

I second that.




Ah, that Durabond 90 seems to be good stuff! sigh...

I've used it as a "prefill" in gaps that are as wide as 1/2", in many
cases shaving the side of the drywall at a slight angle to encourage the
compound to stay put forever.

The main question I have now concerns whether using Durabond as a
prefill has given me sufficient strength. I'm trying to decide whether
to tape with Durabond on top of my prefill, or to tape with an alternate
(more sandable) setting compound. Are there some rules of thumb I can
use to help me decide?

The most critical locations are probably those around some of my
electrical boxes. I assume to use up to 4 pieces of tape bounding the
box, overlapped at the corners. Would you consider using 4 pieces
anyway, for symmetry, even if you only filled one to three sides?

I'm pleased to report that having most of the joints taped, my drywall
is starting to look like "real walls"! I'll post pictures soon so you
can see what you made--I certainly regard this project as a
collaboration with everyone who has helped me so much in this thread.
It's been a real trip.

Bill

Bill wrote:



Ah, that Durabond 90 seems to be good stuff! sigh...

I've used it as a "prefill" in gaps that are as wide as 1/2", in many
cases shaving the side of the drywall at a slight angle to encourage the
compound to stay put forever.

The main question I have now concerns whether using Durabond as a
prefill has given me sufficient strength. I'm trying to decide whether
to tape with Durabond on top of my prefill, or to tape with an alternate
(more sandable) setting compound. Are there some rules of thumb I can
use to help me decide?

Use the regular joint compound to finish the seam. Your sanding arm
will appreciate it.


The most critical locations are probably those around some of my
electrical boxes. I assume to use up to 4 pieces of tape bounding the
box, overlapped at the corners. Would you consider using 4 pieces
anyway, for symmetry, even if you only filled one to three sides?

I only tape the side with the gap but feather out the mud across the
box. Once dry "block sand" to insure a flat surface for the cover to sit
properly.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

Bill wrote:


The most critical locations are probably those around some of my
electrical boxes. I assume to use up to 4 pieces of tape bounding the
box, overlapped at the corners. Would you consider using 4 pieces
anyway, for symmetry, even if you only filled one to three sides?


If your gaps around your boxes are 1/2" or so, then I would dress them with
paper tape. Wet the tape and apply it like you would a joint - in a bed of
mud, and let it set up overnight. Then, simply finish as any other joint.
It will be plenty hard and strong when you're done. No need for Durabond or
any other compound, just use your mud. Remember that your faceplates cover
beyond the box, so you don't need to go crazy trying to fit the tape
precisely around the box.

I'm pleased to report that having most of the joints taped, my drywall
is starting to look like "real walls"! I'll post pictures soon so you
can see what you made--I certainly regard this project as a
collaboration with everyone who has helped me so much in this thread.
It's been a real trip.


Good to see a project come together, isn't it?

--

-Mike-

Nova wrote:
Bill wrote:



Ah, that Durabond 90 seems to be good stuff! sigh...

I've used it as a "prefill" in gaps that are as wide as 1/2", in many
cases shaving the side of the drywall at a slight angle to encourage
the compound to stay put forever.

The main question I have now concerns whether using Durabond as a
prefill has given me sufficient strength. I'm trying to decide whether
to tape with Durabond on top of my prefill, or to tape with an
alternate (more sandable) setting compound. Are there some rules of
thumb I can use to help me decide?

Use the regular joint compound to finish the seam. Your sanding arm will
appreciate it.


The most critical locations are probably those around some of my
electrical boxes. I assume to use up to 4 pieces of tape bounding the
box, overlapped at the corners. Would you consider using 4 pieces
anyway, for symmetry, even if you only filled one to three sides?

I only tape the side with the gap but feather out the mud across the
box.

That sounds like a very good idea.

Once dry "block sand" to insure a flat surface for the cover to sit
properly.

That sounds like a another very good idea!

Thanks!
Bill

BTW, I don't have any regrets at all about plugging the screw holes in
my electrical boxes with screws to protect the holes while I spackled
Durabond 90 near them!

In article , Bill wrote:

Ah, that Durabond 90 seems to be good stuff! sigh...

I've used it as a "prefill" in gaps that are as wide as 1/2", in many
cases shaving the side of the drywall at a slight angle to encourage the
compound to stay put forever.

The main question I have now concerns whether using Durabond as a
prefill has given me sufficient strength.

Durabond is stronger than sheetrock.

I'm trying to decide whether
to tape with Durabond on top of my prefill, or to tape with an alternate
(more sandable) setting compound. Are there some rules of thumb I can
use to help me decide?

I wouldn't put Durabond on top; I'd use something sandable such as EasySand 90
or premixed joint compound.

The most critical locations are probably those around some of my
electrical boxes. I assume to use up to 4 pieces of tape bounding the
box, overlapped at the corners. Would you consider using 4 pieces
anyway, for symmetry, even if you only filled one to three sides?

No need to tape that at all. And if the gaps at the boxes are less than 1/8"
then (per the NEC) it's not required to fill them at all.

I'm pleased to report that having most of the joints taped, my drywall
is starting to look like "real walls"! I'll post pictures soon so you
can see what you made--I certainly regard this project as a
collaboration with everyone who has helped me so much in this thread.
It's been a real trip.

There's certainly a lot of satisfaction in doing it yourself, isn't there?

Doug Miller wrote:

There's certainly a lot of satisfaction in doing it yourself, isn't there?


Yes there is (and it's difficult to put a price on it). I'll share a
related thought/problem. I feel that my neighbor, who is a journeyman
plumber (goodly employed), has been implicitly fighting me every step of
the way: That I should have a pro do this, that I should have a pro do
that... Below are some examples:

-"I think the trades, all of them, should be left to the pros"
-"I don't touch electricity"
-"It will be too hard (for you) to cut out the holes (in the drywall),
the pros know where they go and how big they should be"
....

When I mentioned that I thought I was getting pretty good with the
drywall saw, he mentioned that the pros use a router/rotozip tool. I
asked him if he had one and he said it was loaned out. And when I asked
him, he could not seem to make up his mind whether he knew how to do
drywall or not. He has an immaculately done kitchen area, so I think he
has lots of skills. I found it irritating that he couldn't make up his
mind whether he knew how to do drywall or not--never did get the answer
to that one. When I suggested I was probably making about $5/hour in
doing my own work, he said it was probably more like $1/hour. "A pro
could tape my garage in 2 hours." He did say that my drywall
installation looked "pretty good for a first time".

In the year that I've lived here, he's barely shared any tidbit of
knowledge at all. It feels like he's standing guard protecting any and
all secrets of those who work in the trades. He does contract work
himself, so I have wondered whether he was hoping for my business (I
know he did several plumbing/sewage-related projects for the previous
owners).

My wife says because of the type of work he does, he doesn't want to
come home and think about it--it's too closely related. And maybe so,
because he never offered to lend a hand--or offered only after I was
finished.

Are there trade unions, or the like, that encourage the sort of attitude
I've described above? I'm glad the attitude above is not present on the
Wreck. Suggestions accepted (too). BTW, he's a decent family person
and a good neighbor who doesn't play loud rock music late at night--no
offense to those here who like to play loud music late at night (myself
included).

Bill

Bill wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:

There's certainly a lot of satisfaction in doing it yourself, isn't
there?



Yes there is (and it's difficult to put a price on it). I'll share a
related thought/problem. I feel that my neighbor, who is a journeyman
plumber (goodly employed), has been implicitly fighting me every step of
the way: That I should have a pro do this, that I should have a pro do
that... Below are some examples:

-"I think the trades, all of them, should be left to the pros"
-"I don't touch electricity"
-"It will be too hard (for you) to cut out the holes (in the drywall),
the pros know where they go and how big they should be"
....

When I mentioned that I thought I was getting pretty good with the
drywall saw, he mentioned that the pros use a router/rotozip tool. I
asked him if he had one and he said it was loaned out. And when I asked
him, he could not seem to make up his mind whether he knew how to do
drywall or not. He has an immaculately done kitchen area, so I think he
has lots of skills. I found it irritating that he couldn't make up his
mind whether he knew how to do drywall or not--never did get the answer
to that one. When I suggested I was probably making about $5/hour in
doing my own work, he said it was probably more like $1/hour. "A pro
could tape my garage in 2 hours." He did say that my drywall
installation looked "pretty good for a first time".

In the year that I've lived here, he's barely shared any tidbit of
knowledge at all. It feels like he's standing guard protecting any and
all secrets of those who work in the trades. He does contract work
himself, so I have wondered whether he was hoping for my business (I
know he did several plumbing/sewage-related projects for the previous
owners).

My wife says because of the type of work he does, he doesn't want to
come home and think about it--it's too closely related. And maybe so,
because he never offered to lend a hand--or offered only after I was
finished.

Are there trade unions, or the like, that encourage the sort of attitude
I've described above? I'm glad the attitude above is not present on the
Wreck. Suggestions accepted (too). BTW, he's a decent family person
and a good neighbor who doesn't play loud rock music late at night--no
offense to those here who like to play loud music late at night (myself
included).

Bill

I sounds tp me that your neighbor is telling you to hire a pro to insure
he doesn't get roped into helping.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

Nova wrote:

I sounds to me that your neighbor is telling you to hire a pro to insure
he doesn't get roped into helping.

His posture, and the expressions he uses, all say that.
He walks around like he's afraid you're going to ask him something.
I think, because of his skills, he's probably been taken advantage of
by family, etc. I know he doesn't owe me anything, but I might expect
more neighborly help from someone who doesn't even have any skills.
He's taught me to play the game the way he wants to play it--"Hi.".
It could have been a great situation for me--instead, as Lew might
write, not so much. Thanks for helping me to get this off my chest.
I need to give up on it.

Bill

On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 00:49:26 -0400, Bill wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:

There's certainly a lot of satisfaction in doing it yourself, isn't there?


Yes there is (and it's difficult to put a price on it). I'll share a
related thought/problem. I feel that my neighbor, who is a journeyman
plumber (goodly employed), has been implicitly fighting me every step of
the way: That I should have a pro do this, that I should have a pro do
that... Below are some examples:

-"I think the trades, all of them, should be left to the pros"

Union mentality. I bet he doesn't think much of non-union tradesmen, either.

-"I don't touch electricity"

A lot of people are scared of electricity. If they're scared of electricity
they're better off hiring someone to do it.

-"It will be too hard (for you) to cut out the holes (in the drywall),
the pros know where they go and how big they should be"

Does he do woodworking? Any repairs (outside of plumbing) on his house?
Despite being a plumber, perhaps he's not very mechanically inclined.

...

When I mentioned that I thought I was getting pretty good with the
drywall saw, he mentioned that the pros use a router/rotozip tool. I
asked him if he had one and he said it was loaned out. And when I asked
him, he could not seem to make up his mind whether he knew how to do
drywall or not. He has an immaculately done kitchen area, so I think he
has lots of skills. I found it irritating that he couldn't make up his
mind whether he knew how to do drywall or not--never did get the answer
to that one. When I suggested I was probably making about $5/hour in
doing my own work, he said it was probably more like $1/hour. "A pro
could tape my garage in 2 hours." He did say that my drywall
installation looked "pretty good for a first time".

I've done a lot of things that I likely didn't "make" $1/hr, particularly of
screw-ups are deducted. ;-) I still work on my house. Other than major
structural work or roofs, I'll try about anything.

In the year that I've lived here, he's barely shared any tidbit of
knowledge at all. It feels like he's standing guard protecting any and
all secrets of those who work in the trades. He does contract work
himself, so I have wondered whether he was hoping for my business (I
know he did several plumbing/sewage-related projects for the previous
owners).

Typical union mentality. The secretly (or not) wish for the return of guilds.

My wife says because of the type of work he does, he doesn't want to
come home and think about it--it's too closely related. And maybe so,
because he never offered to lend a hand--or offered only after I was
finished.

I don't work on electronics at home, either. I do woodworking largely, I
think, because it uses some of the same thought processes but isn't work. I'd
help family or a neighbor, though.

Are there trade unions, or the like, that encourage the sort of attitude
I've described above?

Perhaps it's the reverse. People who think this way are attracted to unions.

I'm glad the attitude above is not present on the
Wreck. Suggestions accepted (too).

Try the HVAC group. yikes

BTW, he's a decent family person
and a good neighbor who doesn't play loud rock music late at night--no
offense to those here who like to play loud music late at night (myself
included).

No reason he can't be a friend. A man just has to know his (neighbor's)
limitations.

Buloney! Being scared of electricity is one of the factors that keeps most
of alive. You and your elctriciam cowboys are the jerks that get yourself
killed with you lackasensical attitudes. Telling htis poor guy "it doesn't
really hurt you" and bul**** like that.

If I wasn't scared of electricity I may not have survived many of the 14kV &
27kV live line techniques used in my trade. I delat with live circuits
almost everyday of my life and I never got a shock, once in my career
because I was afraid of the ****. Oooops. correction.. I got zapped once
under a 220kV line off my ungrounded truck. Total surprise on the outside of
the last phase, where it is strongest. (I've been zapped several times on my
own personal projects where my guard was down)

People have to learn and when they do they respect electricity by first
being afraid of it.


wrote in message
...

-"I don't touch electricity"

A lot of people are scared of electricity. If they're scared of electricity
they're better off hiring someone to do it.

On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 20:32:16 -0400, "Josepi" wrote:

Buloney! Being scared of electricity is one of the factors that keeps most
of alive. You and your elctriciam cowboys are the jerks that get yourself
killed with you lackasensical attitudes. Telling htis poor guy "it doesn't
really hurt you" and bul**** like that.

You really are stupid, Josie. There is nothing scary about electricity,
certainly not home wiring.

If I wasn't scared of electricity I may not have survived many of the 14kV &
27kV live line techniques used in my trade. I delat with live circuits
almost everyday of my life and I never got a shock, once in my career
because I was afraid of the ****. Oooops. correction.. I got zapped once
under a 220kV line off my ungrounded truck. Total surprise on the outside of
the last phase, where it is strongest. (I've been zapped several times on my
own personal projects where my guard was down)

Strawman stupid, Stupid.

People have to learn and when they do they respect electricity by first
being afraid of it.

Absolute nonsense.


wrote in message
.. .

-"I don't touch electricity"

A lot of people are scared of electricity. If they're scared of electricity
they're better off hiring someone to do it.

PLONK That's two of your Sybil personalities.


wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 20:32:16 -0400, "Josepi" wrote:

Buloney! Being scared of electricity is one of the factors that keeps most
of alive. You and your elctriciam cowboys are the jerks that get yourself
killed with you lackasensical attitudes. Telling htis poor guy "it doesn't
really hurt you" and bul**** like that.

You really are stupid, Josie. There is nothing scary about electricity,
certainly not home wiring.

If I wasn't scared of electricity I may not have survived many of the 14kV
&
27kV live line techniques used in my trade. I delat with live circuits
almost everyday of my life and I never got a shock, once in my career
because I was afraid of the ****. Oooops. correction.. I got zapped once
under a 220kV line off my ungrounded truck. Total surprise on the outside
of
the last phase, where it is strongest. (I've been zapped several times on
my
own personal projects where my guard was down)

Strawman stupid, Stupid.

People have to learn and when they do they respect electricity by first
being afraid of it.

Absolute nonsense.


wrote in message
.. .

-"I don't touch electricity"

A lot of people are scared of electricity. If they're scared of
electricity
they're better off hiring someone to do it.

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

In the year that I've lived here, he's barely shared any tidbit of
knowledge at all. It feels like he's standing guard protecting any and
all secrets of those who work in the trades. He does contract work
himself, so I have wondered whether he was hoping for my business (I
know he did several plumbing/sewage-related projects for the previous
owners).

Typical union mentality. The secretly (or not) wish for the return of guilds.

It reminded me of the "guilds" too. Much of that kind of thinking going
around these days?



BTW, he's a decent family person
and a good neighbor who doesn't play loud rock music late at night--no
offense to those here who like to play loud music late at night (myself
included).

No reason he can't be a friend. A man just has to know his (neighbor's)
limitations.

One of the first things I mentioned to him when we met was how much I
liked tools, especially old tools. I showed him a few old planes and he
showed me an old Disston saw he had, and a few months later he gave it
to me, trusting that I would give it a good home. I've never seen him
do any work except mow the lawn at home. His free seems to go towards
the activities of his two teenage children. Maybe there will come a time
when he has time for friendship, but in the meantime I'm not going to
hold my breath. My wife and I have a really good relationship with his
dog who is not afraid to come right to the door (it can tell when
"something's cooking")!

Bill

In article , Bill wrote:
[...]
My wife and I have a really good relationship with his
dog who is not afraid to come right to the door (it can tell when
"something's cooking")!

Is that the dog that I saw when I was at your place last month, Bill?

On 8/19/2010 9:09 PM, Josepi wrote:
PLONK That's two of your Sybil personalities.


wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 20:32:16 -0400, wrote:

Buloney! Being scared of electricity is one of the factors that keeps most
of alive. You and your elctriciam cowboys are the jerks that get yourself
killed with you lackasensical attitudes. Telling htis poor guy "it doesn't
really hurt you" and bul**** like that.

You really are stupid, Josie. There is nothing scary about electricity,
certainly not home wiring.

If I wasn't scared of electricity I may not have survived many of the 14kV
&
27kV live line techniques used in my trade. I delat with live circuits
almost everyday of my life and I never got a shock, once in my career
because I was afraid of the ****. Oooops. correction.. I got zapped once
under a 220kV line off my ungrounded truck. Total surprise on the outside
of
the last phase, where it is strongest. (I've been zapped several times on
my
own personal projects where my guard was down)

Strawman stupid, Stupid.

People have to learn and when they do they respect electricity by first
being afraid of it.

Absolute nonsense.

You do things your way and let others do things their way. Remember
Captain Ahab's rule? "I will not have a man in my boat who is not
afraid of a whale"?

If you aren't afraid of the whale then you may be a fine whaler, but
don't apply to the Pequod for a job.

If a little bit of fear keeps one from getting killed, more power to it.
And if you think that household electricity can't kill you you're a
damned fool.

Please consider the following non-standard mudding problem:

Two pieces of drywall meet unevenly (old and new) with perhaps up to
5/16" difference in the height of their surfaces. You could even
imagine a few gaps almost 1/2" wide between them, but these have been
filled with Durabond 90, the difference in height mitigated at the same
time. There is no Durabond 90 on the higher surface.

Imagine that at the present state, the Durabond compound forms about a
40 degree angle from the lower to the upper piece of drywall.

I have about 50-60 feet of drywall joints in this condition (as a result
of my decision not to remove my drywall up to the ceiling)!


What is my next best move (multiple choice)?

1) Tape the joint now with all-purpose joint compound, and
reduce/feather the angle with additional joint and finishing compound on
top of the tape. (It would practically be like taping an outside corner
of 130 degrees)

2) Add more Durabond 90 to reduce the angle now, getting it almost flat,
and then tape it with additional all-purpose joint compound.

3) Something else (PLEASE don't say, hire a professional! : ) ).

TYVM for your thoughts!

Bill

Bill wrote:


What is my next best move (multiple choice)?

1) Tape the joint now with all-purpose joint compound, and
reduce/feather the angle with additional joint and finishing compound
on top of the tape. (It would practically be like taping an outside
corner of 130 degrees)

2) Add more Durabond 90 to reduce the angle now, getting it almost
flat, and then tape it with additional all-purpose joint compound.

3) Something else (PLEASE don't say, hire a professional! : ) ).


4) Take down the 5/8 sheetrock and replace with 1/2, or vise-versa. BTW -
is this an attached garage? There may be code implications here.

Notwithstanding the possible code implications, use which ever compound you
chose to run the joint out. Then, use regular mud to finish running it out.
You're going to run a long way to hide the kind of step you describe. You
might want to secure a good straight stick or piece of metal to use as a
screed to establish a nice wide flare. You're probably going to go out 6
feet or more to hide that kind of joint. I wouldn't even bother with it
myself - I'd replace sheetrock and finish as normal.

--

-Mike-

Bill wrote:
Please consider the following non-standard mudding problem:

Two pieces of drywall meet unevenly (old and new) with perhaps up to
5/16" difference in the height of their surfaces. You could even
imagine a few gaps almost 1/2" wide between them, but these have been
filled with Durabond 90, the difference in height mitigated at the
same time. There is no Durabond 90 on the higher surface.

Imagine that at the present state, the Durabond compound forms about a
40 degree angle from the lower to the upper piece of drywall.

I have about 50-60 feet of drywall joints in this condition (as a
result of my decision not to remove my drywall up to the ceiling)!


What is my next best move (multiple choice)?

1) Tape the joint now with all-purpose joint compound, and
reduce/feather the angle with additional joint and finishing compound
on top of the tape. (It would practically be like taping an outside
corner of 130 degrees)

2) Add more Durabond 90 to reduce the angle now, getting it almost
flat, and then tape it with additional all-purpose joint compound.

3) Something else (PLEASE don't say, hire a professional! : ) ).


My previous reply... or,

If the old drywall is 1/2", then construct a deadman and re-secure the old
to the trusses (rafters). If both old and new sheetrock are the same
thickness and there is a step like that, it's likely the old has sagged and
needs to be re-secured. Think of this job like sex - screw a lot...

--

-Mike-

"Bill" wrote

2) Add more Durabond 90 to reduce the angle now, getting it almost flat,
and then tape it with additional all-purpose joint compound.

Almost. Tape, with 90, sor of following the jog with the tape. Then fill
almost level for at least a foot out onto the low board with 90 as the fill
material.

Then finish with all purpose to make more taper and refine the finish.

You should have asked about this one first. Adding some wedges on top of 2
x 4 and under the rock is the right way to handle that situation, even if it
means popping some nails loose on the old sheets to get the shims in. Too
late now.
--
Jim in NC

On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 21:54:48 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

On 8/19/2010 9:09 PM, Josepi wrote:
PLONK That's two of your Sybil personalities.


wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 20:32:16 -0400, wrote:

Buloney! Being scared of electricity is one of the factors that keeps most
of alive. You and your elctriciam cowboys are the jerks that get yourself
killed with you lackasensical attitudes. Telling htis poor guy "it doesn't
really hurt you" and bul**** like that.

You really are stupid, Josie. There is nothing scary about electricity,
certainly not home wiring.

If I wasn't scared of electricity I may not have survived many of the 14kV
&
27kV live line techniques used in my trade. I delat with live circuits
almost everyday of my life and I never got a shock, once in my career
because I was afraid of the ****. Oooops. correction.. I got zapped once
under a 220kV line off my ungrounded truck. Total surprise on the outside
of
the last phase, where it is strongest. (I've been zapped several times on
my
own personal projects where my guard was down)

Strawman stupid, Stupid.

People have to learn and when they do they respect electricity by first
being afraid of it.

Absolute nonsense.

You do things your way and let others do things their way. Remember
Captain Ahab's rule? "I will not have a man in my boat who is not
afraid of a whale"?

Respect fear

If you fear electricity you're going to hurt yourself.

If you aren't afraid of the whale then you may be a fine whaler, but
don't apply to the Pequod for a job.

If a little bit of fear keeps one from getting killed, more power to it.
And if you think that household electricity can't kill you you're a
damned fool.

Nonsense.

Morgans wrote:

Almost. Tape, with 90, sor of following the jog with the tape. Then fill
almost level for at least a foot out onto the low board with 90 as the fill
material.

Then finish with all purpose to make more taper and refine the finish.


I just walked around the shop holding a ruler across the joint at
various places. The variation is considerable (as some of the old boards
were warped). Holding the ruler across the joint the ruler will touch 2
inches away at one point and 6 inches away at another. I was
considering marking these points, and then leveling to them, but then,
since my new board is reasonably flat, I might expect I'd get a wavy
looking wall. Still, it seems to make sense to take these measurements
into consideration on each wall since the walls are not uniformly bad.

It already looks Alot better than it did a few days ago with just 1
application of 90--the big gaps I was worried about are gone. I'm
hopeful!

Bill

On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 22:15:21 -0400, Bill wrote:

Please consider the following non-standard mudding problem:

Two pieces of drywall meet unevenly (old and new) with perhaps up to
5/16" difference in the height of their surfaces. You could even
imagine a few gaps almost 1/2" wide between them, but these have been
filled with Durabond 90, the difference in height mitigated at the same
time. There is no Durabond 90 on the higher surface.

Ah, you bought the wrong thickness drywall, didn't you? If you'd gone
with OSB instead, you could have added a piece of 1x3 flat moulding
and called it a design feature. But now you're screwed. So solly!


Imagine that at the present state, the Durabond compound forms about a
40 degree angle from the lower to the upper piece of drywall.

I have about 50-60 feet of drywall joints in this condition (as a result
of my decision not to remove my drywall up to the ceiling)!

Ain't hindsight a real ****er?


What is my next best move (multiple choice)?

1) Tape the joint now with all-purpose joint compound, and
reduce/feather the angle with additional joint and finishing compound on
top of the tape. (It would practically be like taping an outside corner
of 130 degrees)

2) Add more Durabond 90 to reduce the angle now, getting it almost flat,
and then tape it with additional all-purpose joint compound.

3) Something else (PLEASE don't say, hire a professional! : ) ).

3. Finish replacing the drywall. _Anything_ else will leave you with
a bad taste in your mouth AND the need to explain yourself to each and
every visitor to your shop from now to eternity. Hey, what's $30 to
avoid that mess? Just Do It!

--
We're all here because we're not all there.

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 22:15:21 -0400, wrote:

Please consider the following non-standard mudding problem:

Two pieces of drywall meet unevenly (old and new) with perhaps up to
5/16" difference in the height of their surfaces. You could even
imagine a few gaps almost 1/2" wide between them, but these have been
filled with Durabond 90, the difference in height mitigated at the same
time. There is no Durabond 90 on the higher surface.

Ah, you bought the wrong thickness drywall, didn't you? If you'd gone
with OSB instead, you could have added a piece of 1x3 flat moulding
and called it a design feature. But now you're screwed. So solly!


Imagine that at the present state, the Durabond compound forms about a
40 degree angle from the lower to the upper piece of drywall.

I have about 50-60 feet of drywall joints in this condition (as a result
of my decision not to remove my drywall up to the ceiling)!

Ain't hindsight a real ****er?

You have not heard me complain. I'm just going to use a bigger container
to hold the mud and a bigger knife. I'm not bad with the knife. The
reason that I did not want to remove all of the drywall to the ceiling
was on account of the treated/brushed (?) ceiling. I realize you are
just jesting.

Bill

On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 13:12:19 -0400, Bill wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 22:15:21 -0400, wrote:

Please consider the following non-standard mudding problem:

Two pieces of drywall meet unevenly (old and new) with perhaps up to
5/16" difference in the height of their surfaces. You could even
imagine a few gaps almost 1/2" wide between them, but these have been
filled with Durabond 90, the difference in height mitigated at the same
time. There is no Durabond 90 on the higher surface.

Ah, you bought the wrong thickness drywall, didn't you? If you'd gone
with OSB instead, you could have added a piece of 1x3 flat moulding
and called it a design feature. But now you're screwed. So solly!


Imagine that at the present state, the Durabond compound forms about a
40 degree angle from the lower to the upper piece of drywall.

I have about 50-60 feet of drywall joints in this condition (as a result
of my decision not to remove my drywall up to the ceiling)!

Ain't hindsight a real ****er?

You have not heard me complain. I'm just going to use a bigger container
to hold the mud and a bigger knife. I'm not bad with the knife. The
reason that I did not want to remove all of the drywall to the ceiling
was on account of the treated/brushed (?) ceiling. I realize you are
just jesting.

Bill, I was NOT jesting. If you want ot save the ceiling, do a knife
cut into the wall as close to it as possible and remove only the
thicker wall pieces. By knifing the corner, you can remove only the
wall portion, leaving the ceiling intact. What is this ceiling
treatment, anyway? Got JPGs?


If you mud down an extra foot, it will still show up to everyone who
looks at it via shadow lines and it will look unprofessional.

Everything I said there goes. You will indubitably regret that choice,
but it's your choice. shrug

--
We're all here because we're not all there.

On 2010-08-19 22:15:21 -0400, Bill said:

What is my next best move (multiple choice)?

Crown moulding!

"Steve" wrote
Bill said:

What is my next best move (multiple choice)?

Crown moulding!

Chuckle g

I never thought of that, for his case. It probably would have been easier
to replace all the wall to the ceiling, then caulk the joint for air
infiltration, then install crown moulding to cover the joint.

As far as that goes, caulking the joint and leaving it would be a good way
to go and to leave it at that, if the ceiling is pretty straight. I have
found that the ceiling to wall joint is not often looked at real closely, by
most people.

But look at all the learning that took place because he did not go that way!
;-)
--
Jim in NC

Larry Jaques wrote:

If you mud down an extra foot, it will still show up to everyone who
looks at it via shadow lines and it will look unprofessional.

Larry,

Most of the joint is 3" from the ceiling. I've taped it all, but I
haven't done much tapering yet, and I think it looks pretty good.
The ceiling is "brushed joint compound"/imitation stucco--whatever that
treatment is called. I think someone suggested here a while back that I
proceed as I have. We didn't realize, of course, that I would uncover a
variety of drywall widths in the tear-off. I will have considerable
lighting in this area, so I doubt shadow lines will be a major issue. I
can always redo whatever I find unacceptable--another wall and the
ceiling still needs work. It's not like I have to make a special trip
to the job site.

As Steve mentioned, there has been a lot of learning in this. That was
and still is a very important goal too--to further develop my skills,
for instance, for working on the interior of the house. I am hopeful
that my results will look *great*, while they may fall somewhat short of
standards someone might require for a brightly lit formal dining room
finished with semi-gloss paint (Level 5?).

By the way, I get to apply many of the skills I've learned working on
this project to a garbage disposal that broke yesterday and needs to be
replaced. As I'm not sure there is currently even enough wire to get to
the new disposal or a properly located junction box, I may need to pull
wire from the switch which is on an adjacent wall. My point is I'm
confident about the electrical part of whatever I need to do with
that--which is a far better position than I would have been in only 6
months ago. I need to try to figure out how to hook up the out-flowing
pipe as the new disposal uses a different adapter than I have now...so
I'm off to look for some resources now. Cheers!

Bill


Everything I said there goes. You will indubitably regret that choice,
but it's your choice.shrug

--
We're all here because we're not all there.

Larry Jaques wrote:

If you mud down an extra foot, it will still show up to everyone who
looks at it via shadow lines and it will look unprofessional.

Everything I said there goes. You will indubitably regret that choice,
but it's your choice.shrug

I'm not sure. I'll post some photos soon and we can both judge. What
the room is really lacking is a cabinet saw and a drill press. : )

Regards,
Bill

Bill wrote:

By the way, I get to apply many of the skills I've learned working on
this project to a garbage disposal that broke yesterday and needs to be
replaced.


I observed that the garbage disposal is currently on a dedicated 20 Amp
circuit, but, at least back to its switch, it is wired with white romex
cable (guage 14). I am not yet familiar yet with the cable between the
switch and the main panel (I have a hunch that it is guage 12).

This configuration is inappropriate, no? Technically, I think I should
upgrade the cable to yellow or replace the breaker with a 15 Amp one.
The new device will be about 8.2 Amps. Given these choices, I think I
would lean towards replacing the breaker.

The wire to the garbage disposal being woefully short, it's amazing how
this seems to be blossoming into a project in itself...

And no, I did NOT rinse any drywall compound went down the sink! : )

Hope you all will have even more fun than I will tomorrow!

Bill

On 8/22/10 2:26 AM, Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:

By the way, I get to apply many of the skills I've learned working on
this project to a garbage disposal that broke yesterday and needs to be
replaced.


I observed that the garbage disposal is currently on a dedicated 20 Amp
circuit, but, at least back to its switch, it is wired with white romex
cable (guage 14). I am not yet familiar yet with the cable between the
switch and the main panel (I have a hunch that it is guage 12).

This configuration is inappropriate, no? Technically, I think I should
upgrade the cable to yellow or replace the breaker with a 15 Amp one.
The new device will be about 8.2 Amps. Given these choices, I think I
would lean towards replacing the breaker.

The wire to the garbage disposal being woefully short, it's amazing how
this seems to be blossoming into a project in itself...

And no, I did NOT rinse any drywall compound went down the sink! : )

Hope you all will have even more fun than I will tomorrow!

Check the actual cable it wasn't too long ago that 12 guage came with a
white sheathing too.

You can't always go by the colour.
--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.