On 6/28/2014 12:41 AM, DannyD. wrote:
Everyone has 10,000 or 15,000 gallon tanks of water. Most have two
or three large tanks. I don't think anyone doesn't have a tank or three.

So, that's where the water would be stored.


With that much capacity, you might look into a
bigger delivery truck. I mean, if you had a
5,000 gal truck, you could split the water off,
and deliver some water to two or three houses
at same time. OTOH, 5,000 is a LOT of weight and
would probably be the size of a semi trailer.

Would be nice to get the local FD out for relay
pumping practice one day a month, and fill ALL
the tanks and be done with it.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
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..

On 6/28/2014 12:46 AM, DannyD. wrote:

Some have horses, so they have trailers. I don't have any of that,
and none have volunteered any equipment yet. Some have pickups,
but, it's not farm land, so, most just have Lexus SUVs & Prius'
sedans.


It sure presents a lot of challenge, for sure.
I'd guess a few folks have those coolers with
five gal jugs to put on top. Not perfect, but
what you gong to do? Get a couple more jugs each
time you go to town.

What does the FD do, with housing and no hydrants?

Would it be a fair guess, that the high mounted
10,000 gal tanks, you're supposed to fill them
during the rainy season, if there is rain?


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..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
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On 6/28/2014 12:49 AM, DannyD. wrote:
All of us have what is called a "wharf hydrant" on our residences
which is tied to the bottom 1/3 of the water tanks on the property.

It's the code for Santa Clara County that each house has their own
fire hydrant, but these hydrants are tall skinny things, but I think
the hose is the same as the smaller opening on the San Jose Water Company
fire hydrants miles away.


That might provide the input, so you can put
water into the tanks? I'd think that in case
of fire, the FD would need to tap the resident
tanks, for water.

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Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
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On 6/28/2014 2:05 AM, Edward Reid wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jun 2014 19:18:56 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

How far from the muni water, and practical to tie in?

Note that it's not just the distance, it's the height. Danny is
talking about 5 miles at 9% grade. Maybe the 5 miles isn't all on the
grade, but it sounds like his 'hood may be 2000' above that closest
muni water. It takes 1000 psi to raise water 2000'. Therefore it would
not just be a matter of running pipe, it would also require new pumps
-- either pipe to handle 1000 psi and a very hefty pump, or normal
pipe and several stages of pumps.

Edward

I'd not considered the altitude question. That
does cause all kinds of problems, trying to get
up hill.

Ideally if each HO brought home 10 gal of water
with each trip to town. But, back to my experience
with the family with bad well water. Few people
have that mental capacity, even when she goes out
and puts the jugs on their car seats.



--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
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On 6/28/2014 2:11 AM, Edward Reid wrote:
Oh, and if you use that 1000 gallon tank ... remember that unless it
has internal baffles, it must be FULL while you are driving.
Otherwise, the sloshing will turn your truck over or drag the tank off
the truck. And this is a big problem since you are planning to empty
it in several stages. You could try driving very slowly when it's not
full, but given the kind of terrain you are talking about, I suspect
that won't be enough.

Perhaps you can get a tank with baffles. I suspect that $500 won't buy
it, but I could be wrong.

Or you could simply deliver each full load to just one resident. With
the size tanks you are talking about, you'd have to do some planning,
but it sounds feasible.

Edward

Danny says most HO have 10,000 gal tanks at home,
so delivery of complete load doesn't sound like a
problem. Sloshing is a major problem when turning
corners. Every now and again, a fire department
flips a tanker, cause of the slosh baffle problem.

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Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
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On 6/28/2014 2:43 AM, DannyD. wrote:
Edward Reid wrote, on Sat, 28 Jun 2014 02:05:26 -0400:

Maybe the 5 miles isn't all on the
grade, but it sounds like his 'hood may be 2000' above that closest
muni water.

This is an astute calculation.
The municipal water supply is at about 300 to 600 feet elevation.
The houses are all well above 2000 feet elevation.

As former volunteer FF, and having taken some fire
protection courses, I remember lift takes 0.434 PSI
per foot of rise. Sounds like you're better off
driving than pumping.

I paid 3.69 for cheap nolead yesterday, and it's
more like 3.89 in some places, here (western NY),
IIRC. I think California with the botique designer
low smog fuels cost a pile more than NYS.

So, you'd best to budget a LOT for motor fuel on
your project. Driving water uphill is not going to
be the same as one frail gramma in a Prius. Might
get dual 1,000 gal tanks, one white for potable
water, other red for gasoline.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
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On Saturday, June 28, 2014 12:36:14 AM UTC-4, DannyD. wrote:
Kurt Ullman wrote, on Fri, 27 Jun 2014 18:44:25 -0400:



Which brings up another question. Using whatever method you decide on,

how long will it take to break even on just having the current well

drilled deeper.



Good question.



How much does it cost to drill a well an additional 100 feet?



With plastic casing, which is what is being used here these days,
AFAIK you can't just drill an existing well deeper. You have to start all over.
Steel casing, etc maybe you can. I'd definitely find out about that
option though.

On Saturday, June 28, 2014 12:51:27 AM UTC-4, DannyD. wrote:
trader_4 wrote, on Fri, 27 Jun 2014 18:01:32 -0700:



So.... Why not just rent a potable water tank truck? I would think

they must be available. And you can probably get one that holds

more than 1000 gallons too.



The problem with the Hertz water tank trucks is that they only have

2,000 gallons, which (a) requires a class A license, and (b) they say

they would never recommend you drink out of it because they're mostly

used as sprayers at construction sites.



Hertz Equipment Rental 408-451-9320

No one other than Hertz? I would think someone would rent potable
water trucks. People do have to occasionally haul it around.

On Saturday, June 28, 2014 12:52:56 AM UTC-4, DannyD. wrote:
trader_4 wrote, on Fri, 27 Jun 2014 18:01:32 -0700:



Also, IDK how this all works, but a lot of times, when a community

is hit like this, doesn't the local fire company start delivering

water for free or some nominal charge? Maybe getting that organized

would be more productive.



That's an interesting idea!



I will ask them tomorrow (or maybe Monday).



That's the kind of innovative suggestions I was hoping to find from

the collective mind!



Thanks!

Why do you take one of my replies and turn it into three when
you reply? Going for the record # or posts this month?

On 6/28/2014 7:54 AM, trader_4 wrote:

How much does it cost to drill a well an additional 100 feet?



With plastic casing, which is what is being used here these days,
AFAIK you can't just drill an existing well deeper. You have to start all over.
Steel casing, etc maybe you can. I'd definitely find out about that
option though.

Since they are 2,000 altitude, it may be there
isn't enough water to be useful. Danny, do any
of your neighbors have good supply of water?
If no neighbors have water, it's possible the
deeper well option isn't viable.

Lets also look at the time factor. Suppose
that Danny or other worker decides to shuttle
thousand gallon trips. Fill the tank will probably
be 10 minutes at hydrant, plus connect and dis-
connect. Threads, put the meter back on the truck,
and so on. At the house, we're not sure what is the
GPH with a pump, there is time needed to pump into
the house tank. Drive up and down the hill. Anyone
want to make a SWAG as to the time for one shuttle?
More than anyone expects, I'm sure.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Sat, 28 Jun 2014 05:47:33 +0000 (UTC), "DannyD."
wrote in

Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds wrote, on Fri, 27 Jun 2014 21:39:22 -0700:


How much would it cost to deepen a/the wells? you could get several
households to pay for the cost of deepening one or more of the wells and
distribute the water via a smaller, truck mountable tank

The way it works here is that each homeowner has their own well, so,
there wouldn't be any sharing of drilling costs.

I have two wells, for example. Neither one puts out more than a few
gallons before shutting off lately.

After reading the (IMO many good) suggestions in this thread, it's
beginning to look like a pretty complex problem.

I wonder how it affects property values?
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

Stormin Mormon wrote:

Everyone has 10,000 or 15,000 gallon tanks of water. Most have two
or three large tanks. I don't think anyone doesn't have a tank or
three. So, that's where the water would be stored.

Why on earth would you need that much capacity?

If you have a well system that *normally* doesn't run dry, then why
would you need so much storage capacity for potable water?

And how would you keep the tanks clean enough (and the water clean
enough) to drink or cook with so much stored water?

What exactly is this water used for? Household stuff?

With that much capacity, you might look into a bigger delivery
truck. I mean, if you had a 5,000 gal truck, you could split the
water off, and deliver some water to two or three houses at same
time. OTOH, 5,000 is a LOT of weight and would probably be the
size of a semi trailer.

I thought the point of this whole thing was to rent a single water meter
and an inexpensive transportation system to convey the water to multiple
people. If a large truck + tank would cost 10 times as much as a
smaller tank on a trailer pulled by your own PU, then maybe a few round
trips to each person with the smaller tank would still end up costing
less than dragging around the 5k gallon truck.

On 06/28/2014 07:32 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I can see this turning into a major social event for the
delivery guy, as it may take an hour (or more) to pump
the truck tank to the house tank.

Especially if the husband is at work, the housewife has big jugs and the driver has a big hose.

There will be a hole lot of pumpin' for sure.

On 6/28/2014 9:12 AM, Chuck Finley wrote:
On 06/28/2014 07:32 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I can see this turning into a major social event for the
delivery guy, as it may take an hour (or more) to pump
the truck tank to the house tank.

Especially if the husband is at work, the housewife has big jugs and the
driver has a big hose.

There will be a hole lot of pumpin' for sure.

Driver has a thousand gallon tank, electric
pump, and won't quit till he's empty. Hope
she's 15 feet in the air, too.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
news
On 6/28/2014 2:05 AM, Edward Reid wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jun 2014 19:18:56 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

How far from the muni water, and practical to tie in?

Note that it's not just the distance, it's the height. Danny is
talking about 5 miles at 9% grade. Maybe the 5 miles isn't all on the
grade, but it sounds like his 'hood may be 2000' above that closest
muni water. It takes 1000 psi to raise water 2000'. Therefore it would
not just be a matter of running pipe, it would also require new pumps
-- either pipe to handle 1000 psi and a very hefty pump, or normal
pipe and several stages of pumps.

Edward

I'd not considered the altitude question. That
does cause all kinds of problems, trying to get
up hill.

Ideally if each HO brought home 10 gal of water
with each trip to town. But, back to my experience
with the family with bad well water. Few people
have that mental capacity, even when she goes out
and puts the jugs on their car seats.

the only guy I knew who actually had to do this had a water tank in his
pickup truck, not too large, and filled it up at work. No mileage costs. I
assume he paid back his employer, or maybe the employer suggested it as a
low cost fringe benefit.

On 6/28/2014 9:40 AM, Pico Rico wrote:
the only guy I knew who actually had to do this had a water tank in his
pickup truck, not too large, and filled it up at work. No mileage costs. I
assume he paid back his employer, or maybe the employer suggested it as a
low cost fringe benefit.



And that sounds like excellent idea. I have a gut
sense this is more of a retirement community.
Danny,anyone in your area going to work every
day like PR's friend?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
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..

In article ,
"DannyD." wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Fri, 27 Jun 2014 19:21:57 -0400:

CY: Pump for what? Sounds like you use hydrant pressure
to fill the tank, and gravity to drain the tank into
someone's well.

The fire hydrant would likely fill the tank on the truck,
but, the homeowner water tanks are ten to fifteen (or so)
feet up in the air, and some are on hills above the houses.

So, the pump is to get the water from the truck all the
way up (maybe fifteen or twenty feet?) to the top of the
water tank, which is the only ready-made opening.

Any chance for a used fire department truck. Fair amount of water,
already baffled for a little easier carry, you know they are built to go
places and already have the pump on board.
--
€œStatistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital.€�
€” Aaron Levenstein

On Friday, June 27, 2014 5:11:27 PM UTC-7, Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jun 2014 21:16:36 +0000 (UTC), "DannyD."

wrote:

The San Jose Water Company sells water out of the fire hydrants at $2.70 per
CCF (i.e., $2.71 per 748 gallons) after we rent a "portable meter", either a
1-inch portable meter (output is a male 3/4-inch garden hose thread) at
$29.48/month, or a 3-inch portable meter (output is a male 2-1/2 inch firehose thread) at $176.98 a month.

I can't help you with advice for getting the water delivered, but I
can give you some advice if you opt for the "firehose" thread option.
Back in the day it was not all that uncommon for several neighboring
towns to all have different threads on their hydrants. There used to
be dozens of threads used on hydrants and I'm confident that has
become more standardized over the years. My advice is make sure you
know what threads are on the hydrant(s) you would use.

Good luck.

That bit the city fire department badly. about 4am one night the city fire department garage caught fire (later determined to be caused by a plugged in extension cord hanging over a nail). All the trucks were inside and could not be gotten out...except one, the antique "Wimpy", a truck from the 20s or 30s stored in another shed. Fully operational and full of vintage equipment...none that was of any use as the connections did not mate up with the fire hydrants. We lost the garage and all fire department equipment. By the time other agencies got there all they could do was keep the fire from spreading.

Harry K

On Friday, June 27, 2014 2:16:36 PM UTC-7, DannyD. wrote:

snip

Any other helpful suggestions for me to provide to the neighbors for trucking
in potable water during the drought?

From the description of the problem (which apparently will be on-going and not getting better, it is time for that community to get together for a LID (local Improvement District) and run a pipeline those 5 miles for a permanent connection.

Cost of the 5 miles in equipment and pipe would soon amortize over the hauling, rental, etc. Right Of Way acquisition would be the deal breaker probably.

Harry K

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Sat, 28 Jun 2014 10:06:14 -0400:

And that sounds like excellent idea. I have a gut
sense this is more of a retirement community.
Danny,anyone in your area going to work every
day like PR's friend?

Well, there are all types. For example, the woman who ran
out of water just divorced from her husband about two years ago,
and she got the house and kids so she's actually renting her
additional cottage on the property to another ex homeowner
who lost his home down the street to the bank. So, she's
not retured.

Yet, others own multiple companies, and the only ones going
up and down the hill are their landscapers and repairmen.

The majority are independently wealthy (except me, as I've
retired, but I may have to reconsider my options), but
some are people who have been here for 40 years, and they
must have bought when prices were less than a million so
their taxes aren't killing them like mine are killing me!


I just got an update from the divorced lady. She is
contracting out to get her rather shallow (only 300 feet)
well drilled deeper. The next in line is a lady whose
husband recently died, and her house is under foreclosure.

Her well (as is mine) is tripping every few minutes, so,
she's conserving water (as am I) and hoping the water supply
lasts until the next forcasted rain (which will come in
October or November).

As for me, I filled the pool, so, "my" supply, while intermittent,
was good enough to last, but, there are vineyards here which
must be using a LOT of water ... so it may simply be a matter
of location.

I don't know, but, for me, and for those without the ready
capital to drill deeper, I'd go for the temporary solution of
trucking the water up the hill.

The sloshing tipping over the truck seems to me to be a very
real concern that I hadn't considered, because, there is no
guardrail, and you're going down a slope that doesn't end
for thousands of vertical feet, so, it would behoove us to
better understand the sloshing effect on a pickup truck filled
with a 1,000 gallons of water in a tank.

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Sat, 28 Jun 2014 07:53:30 -0400:

So, you'd best to budget a LOT for motor fuel on
your project. Driving water uphill is not going to
be the same as one frail gramma in a Prius. Might
get dual 1,000 gal tanks, one white for potable
water, other red for gasoline.

I always wondered how much of that lost fuel mileage you
get back on the downhill drive, which is done essentially in
neutral for the entire 5 miles.

I realize it won't exactly cancel out, but, essentially you
get 100mpg (or whatever) on the downhill drive; while you
probably get something like half your city mpg on the uphill
climb.

trader_4 wrote, on Sat, 28 Jun 2014 04:54:16 -0700:

With plastic casing, which is what is being used here these days,
AFAIK you can't just drill an existing well deeper. You have to start all over.
Steel casing, etc maybe you can. I'd definitely find out about that
option though.

I just found out that the divorced lady who has run out of water is
sharing the well with the lady whose husband recently died. They have
separate tanks, so, it's just a matter of time before the second
lady has the problem.

Both have young kids, and not much by way of finances (other than the
huge illiquid equity presumed to be in the homes). The plan, I'm told,
is to drill deeper (but that plastic vs steel casing may be an issue).

Luckily, the divorced lady has her ex to back her up, so I think the
plan is to cut the single mother a break, at least until the home is
foreclosed on (which takes about a year). It's currently up for sale,
but there are no takers that I know of.

It's hard to help them, as I'm out of my league when it comes to this
stuff, having never owned a home with a well before the current one, and,
well, when the well works, it just works. So I don't know much more
about it other than watching the little block of wood go up and down.

"DannyD." wrote in message
...
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Sat, 28 Jun 2014 10:06:14 -0400:

And that sounds like excellent idea. I have a gut
sense this is more of a retirement community.
Danny,anyone in your area going to work every
day like PR's friend?

Well, there are all types. For example, the woman who ran
out of water just divorced from her husband about two years ago,
and she got the house and kids so she's actually renting her
additional cottage on the property to another ex homeowner
who lost his home down the street to the bank. So, she's
not retured.

Yet, others own multiple companies, and the only ones going
up and down the hill are their landscapers and repairmen.

The majority are independently wealthy (except me, as I've
retired, but I may have to reconsider my options), but
some are people who have been here for 40 years, and they
must have bought when prices were less than a million so
their taxes aren't killing them like mine are killing me!


I just got an update from the divorced lady. She is
contracting out to get her rather shallow (only 300 feet)
well drilled deeper. The next in line is a lady whose
husband recently died, and her house is under foreclosure.

Her well (as is mine) is tripping every few minutes, so,
she's conserving water (as am I) and hoping the water supply
lasts until the next forcasted rain (which will come in
October or November).

As for me, I filled the pool, so, "my" supply, while intermittent,
was good enough to last, but, there are vineyards here which
must be using a LOT of water ... so it may simply be a matter
of location.

I don't know, but, for me, and for those without the ready
capital to drill deeper, I'd go for the temporary solution of
trucking the water up the hill.

The sloshing tipping over the truck seems to me to be a very
real concern that I hadn't considered, because, there is no
guardrail, and you're going down a slope that doesn't end
for thousands of vertical feet, so, it would behoove us to
better understand the sloshing effect on a pickup truck filled
with a 1,000 gallons of water in a tank.

which side of San Jose is this neighborhood?

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Sat, 28 Jun 2014 08:05:11 -0400:

Since they are 2,000 altitude, it may be there
isn't enough water to be useful. Danny, do any
of your neighbors have good supply of water?
If no neighbors have water, it's possible the
deeper well option isn't viable.

I'm *not* by any means an expert. So, what I tell you is
just what I happen to observe or hear.

In "my" case, I have two wells. I don't remember what the initial
inspection said of the depth, but the good well is about 400 feet
deep, and the bad well is shallower. The good well produces water
enough to keep my 10,000 gallon tanks full, but I don't use much
water at all. In fact, I prefer to pee outside, for example, assuming
it's good for the environment (and nobody can see me doing it!).

For "my" two wells, one can't run more than two or three minutes
(or maybe not even that) before shutting down, even in the late
winter. The other well, the deeper newer well, can run for ten
minutes or longer in the late winter, but right now, it's cycling
every three or so minutes also. So, we all know what that means.

However, *most* of the neighbors are not complaining, yet one has
a well which (she claims) is a thousand feet or more deep! (I find
that hard to believe). Another just told me he had a well drilled
which is 500 feet deep. There are vinyards here, so, they *must*
be using a lot of irrigation water (although most have a run-off
collection system for interring the winter rains underground).

The main ones with the problem are the two single moms, who have
at the moment, what I'm told is a "dry" well. It may just be that
the two of them are both renting out portions of their households,
so, their water load is too much for the one well (I don't know),
but, at the moment, the concerns are more prophylactic than
dire (at least for me).

With 40-acre zoning out here, nobody is going to build any more
houses, so, we have to make do with what we have right now.

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Sat, 28 Jun 2014 08:05:11 -0400:

Anyone want to make a SWAG as to the time for one shuttle?
More than anyone expects, I'm sure.

This is good information to think about, as the main intent
is to plan ahead about our options, if the drought continues
in force.

We can rest assured there will be no rain until about November,
but, after that, we won't know what will happen.

Another year of no rain would be telling.

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Sat, 28 Jun 2014 07:26:30 -0400:

The local tanks, are the tanks inground, or above
ground? Inground, you can probably gravity drain
from the truck tank.

I don't think code allows inground tanks.

They're all above ground.

I've never seen a single tank, and most have clusters
of two or three.

On 6/27/2014 4:16 PM, DannyD. wrote:
Do you have experience or ideas for trucking potable water to a residence?

We haven't had rain in a year or so, and some of my neighbor's wells are running
dry. They asked me to figure out an efficient way to get water to them because
the bulk water delivery companies are really lousy on service & costs.


Most of the people around here have their water trucked in from the
water plant in town about 20 miles away. I believe they get about 2000
gallons for $70 or $80.

I have a 200 gallon tank on my 1/2 ton. I go into town once a week,
mail, groceries etc and pick up 170 gallons costing $2 and change.
(prepaid card) That water is used for all our household needs. We
practice water conservation to help stretch the supply. Don't flush
after every leak, turn the shower off while soaping down. Not an
overly inconvenient lifestyle and as I see it the truck pays for
itself. Depending on the amount of company we get on the weekends I
generally need to bring in a load three weeks out of four. We live on
a riverbank so irrigating the lawn and garden is not a problem but I
don't use any river water in the house.

LdB

HomeGuy wrote, on Sat, 28 Jun 2014 08:53:43 -0400:

Why on earth would you need that much capacity?

Oh oh!

While I have almost a full tank of water, my well situation is
(apparently) much worse (for me) than I had thought it was!
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3919/1...b48ba502_b.jpg

I went outside just now to snap that picture of my tanks for you
(I think I miscalculated my tank size) and I realized, to my
horror, that my one "good" well was not pumping anything when I
cycled the circuit breakers out of curiosity!

So, I just shut down all the circuit breakers, and will give
the pumps a half hour or more to "rest", and then I will turn
each pump on, to time how long they last.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2936/1...2ee2fd1d_b.jpg

If you have a well system that *normally* doesn't run dry, then why
would you need so much storage capacity for potable water?

I am not the expert, but, I think the well runs dry every day
all day. I only go out there when there is a problem, but, for
example, my main well wasn't pumping anything when I just cycled
it, and my old well ran for just a few seconds (barely enough
to spin the water meter a tenth of a revolution).

And how would you keep the tanks clean enough (and the water clean
enough) to drink or cook with so much stored water?

I'm not climbing up right now, but, I *have* looked into my tanks,
and, yes, it's rusty and spidery in there. But we drink the water
all the time, and, AFAIK, there is no filter.

What exactly is this water used for? Household stuff?
Yes.
- House
- Sprinklers
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2912/1...67e6e21b_k.jpg
- Pool
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3814/1...f48b9f56_b.jpg

While I have one of the smallest houses here, my pool is almost
40K gallons, and their are almost 200 sprinkler heads, so, that's
an appreciable amount of water. When the sprinklers turned on
earlier this week, they drained the tanks, so, that's another
homeowner task I have to figure out why that happened.

On 6/28/2014 12:20 PM, DannyD. wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Sat, 28 Jun 2014 07:53:30 -0400:

So, you'd best to budget a LOT for motor fuel on
your project. Driving water uphill is not going to

I always wondered how much of that lost fuel mileage you
get back on the downhill drive, which is done essentially in
neutral for the entire 5 miles.

I realize it won't exactly cancel out, but, essentially you
get 100mpg (or whatever) on the downhill drive; while you
probably get something like half your city mpg on the uphill
climb.

Don't know. I'd dare to guess you will go through
rear axles and transmissions at rapid rate. Rented
truck might be best.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Sat, 28 Jun 2014 07:39:45 -0400:

What does the FD do, with housing and no hydrants?

I'm no expert, but I can see the wharf hydrants at *every* home.
Here's mine, for example:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2914/1...a4c06b1f_b.jpg

Plus, since we're in the most extreme fire hazard zone there is
in California, there's always a helicopter flying around which
can't but help notice the pool:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3678/1...18e5582b_c.jpg

However, pool or no pool, it's my understanding every home is
required to reserve a huge portion of the bottom of their water
tanks, I believe, for that wharf hydrant.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2901/1...81e4c58a_b.jpg

For example, here's the bottom of "my" tank with the fire reserve
marked off at some point years ago where the outflow shuts off:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2928/1...51d927c9_b.jpg

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Sat, 28 Jun 2014 07:39:45 -0400:

Would it be a fair guess, that the high mounted
10,000 gal tanks, you're supposed to fill them
during the rainy season, if there is rain?

I don't know how much water most people use, but I emptied
both my tanks a few times this past month to the point that
the water completely shut off to the house (it just dribbled
out the faucet).

It's actually a slightly complicated system, where this little
block of wood determines my fate.

If I can "see" the block of wood, that's bad.
If it goes over a certain line, the water shuts off.
When it goes below another certain line, the water shuts off.

My fate is determined by a little yellow block of wood!
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3919/1...b48ba502_b.jpg

trader_4 wrote, on Sat, 28 Jun 2014 04:58:29 -0700:

No one other than Hertz? I would think someone would rent potable
water trucks. People do have to occasionally haul it around.

I only called Hertz in San Jose:
Hertz Equipment Rental 408-451-9320 (1695 N. 1st St, near SJC airport)
Because I just was running a quick survey for the neighbors.

Given the fact the Fire Department idea is a better idea, that
seems like a reasonable approach to take if it works.

Also, the fact that water tanks on the move are "baffled" was
entirely new to me, as I wouldn't want an unbaffled tank to
throw a pickup truck off the cliff (the roads are very windy).

I like the idea of drilling deeper, but, of course, that's an
expensive (albeit more permanent) option.

But, what's worse, all of a sudden, is that I found "my" wells
weren't working. I've had the circuit breakers all off for
about an hour and a half, so, I'll test the flow soon.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3890/1...7a71d615_b.jpg

Pico Rico wrote, on Sat, 28 Jun 2014 09:27:42 -0700:

which side of San Jose is this neighborhood?

The mountains with the trees!

"DannyD." wrote:

snip
The sloshing tipping over the truck seems to me to be a very
real concern that I hadn't considered, because, there is no
guardrail, and you're going down a slope that doesn't end
for thousands of vertical feet, so, it would behoove us to
better understand the sloshing effect on a pickup truck filled
with a 1,000 gallons of water in a tank.

You just need to make sure the tank is full. A full tank will not
slosh very much if at all. You also want the lowest and flattest tank
that will fit to keep the center of gravity as low as possible.
--
Jim Rusling
More or Less Retired
Mustang, OK
My local Weather http://www.wunderground.com/weathers...p?ID=KOKMUSTA4

Jim Rusling wrote, on Sat, 28 Jun 2014 14:14:27 -0500:

You just need to make sure the tank is full. A full tank will not
slosh very much if at all

This is the kind of advice, that, (a) isn't obvious, and (b), if you
don't know it, can win us a Darwin award.

So I greatly appreciate the tidbit, because I hadn't even thought
of the sloshing until it was mentioned.

trader_4 wrote, on Sat, 28 Jun 2014 04:59:41 -0700:

Why do you take one of my replies and turn it into three when
you reply? Going for the record # or posts this month?

I wasn't even thinking about it. Sorry if that offended you.
I merely was replying, and adding pictures, and cutting and pasting,
and running outside to snap a picture, and then replying back, etc.

You must admit that I'm trying to be responsive.

What happens sometimes is that I lose my train of thought, and, that,
with the pictures and details, the replies go deeper than most, so,
it helps to break down the response into multiple posts.

I'll try to keep *all* yours together though, if it bothers you.

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Sat, 28 Jun 2014 07:42:12 -0400:

That might provide the input, so you can put
water into the tanks? I'd think that in case
of fire, the FD would need to tap the resident
tanks, for water.

We all have "wharf hydrants" on our property for the FD.

This is mine:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2914/1...a4c06b1f_b.jpg

A huge portion of our tanks are "reserved" for this hydrant:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3867/1...f56fdbcb_b.jpg

BTW, since "my" tanks seem puny at (much?) less than 5,000 gallons
(I think, based on the writing on these pipes today):
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3902/1...d8a0630b_b.jpg

I started looking for the unincorporated Santa Clara County code,
but, so far, I only found this, which intimates 10,000 gallons
is pretty normal:
http://www.sccgov.org/sites/planning..._Site_Plan.pdf

If the calculations on my pipes is correct, then I only have a
dismally puny 3,094 gallons + 1,446 gallons = 4,540 gallons
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2928/1...51d927c9_b.jpg

CRNG wrote, on Sat, 28 Jun 2014 07:37:08 -0500:

After reading the (IMO many good) suggestions in this thread, it's
beginning to look like a pretty complex problem.
I wonder how it affects property values?

I suspect that, as long as the water tanks & wells meet the code
of unincorporated Santa Clara County, then the property values are
not adversely affected.

But, I never understood property values anyway, as houses in the
Silicon Valley that are literally a postage-stamp POS habitually
go for well over a million dollars.

Googling for the relevant residential water tank storage standards,
I see a chart on page 4 of this local Fire Department PDF:
http://www.sccgov.org/sites/fmo/docs...r%20012612.pdf
which intimates that my 5,000 gallons is downright puny and is
the first line of the specifications, which seems to indicate that
it's the absolute bare minimum for even a very low hazard fire area:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2935/1...c0e5cb11_b.jpg
And, it's nowhere near what is needed in my very high hazard
fire risk area, so, I must be grandfathered in from decades ago.

This document says that the second tank (which is required) is
for the fire department, but I don't think mine is hooked up
that way (I'll snap some pictures separately):
http://www.sccgov.org/sites/fmo/wate...v%20012512.pdf

Page 6 of this document says I must connect the tanks by 4-inch
steel pipe, which is what I have currently connecting them:
http://www.sccgov.org/sites/fmo/docs...891CFMO-W2.pdf

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Sat, 28 Jun 2014 07:48:53 -0400:

Danny says most HO have 10,000 gal tanks at home,
so delivery of complete load doesn't sound like a
problem.

I am positive that almost every house here has BIGGER
and MORE tanks than I do, but, I just looked at mine,
and I seem to have only a puny 5,000 gallons!
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3919/1...b48ba502_b.jpg

This document seems to apply to homes with their own water supply:
http://www.sccgov.org/sites/fmo/docs...-6-21-10-A.pdf

It says:
a) You must have at least 2 tanks (which I do),
b) The 2nd tank is for the hydrant (which I don't think mine is)
c) The minimum for my size home is 10,000 gallons (mine is apparently not!)

That document provides the rules on the wharf hydrant, so, I was
correct that at least one hydrant must be on *every* property
(even if they share a well like some of my neighbors apparently do).

So, I think I only have half the water I'm "supposed" to have,
since any decently sized home has to have 10,000 gallons and
mine, based on my look today, are only half of that.

But, the more disturbing thing is that my tanks don't seem to
be plumbed for one-for-the-house, the-other-for-the-hydrant.

Mine seems to be the top half is for the house, and the bottom
half is for the hydrant.

I'll snap pictures to show you after I run the test on the well
where the wells have been turned off for a couple of hours now.
(I'm going to time how long they run before drying up.)

LdB wrote, on Sat, 28 Jun 2014 11:53:05 -0500:

I believe they get about 2000 gallons for $70 or $80.

I was quoted $3,800 for 38,000 gallons of water by this outfit:
Franks Water Service, 408-353-1343

So, out here, it's $200 for those 2,000 gallons, which
is more than double what you pay, you lucky guy!