Do you have experience or ideas for trucking potable water to a residence?

We haven't had rain in a year or so, and some of my neighbor's wells are running
dry. They asked me to figure out an efficient way to get water to them because
the bulk water delivery companies are really lousy on service & costs.

The San Jose Water Company sells water out of the fire hydrants at $2.70 per
CCF (i.e., $2.71 per 748 gallons) after we rent a "portable meter", either a
1-inch portable meter (output is a male 3/4-inch garden hose thread) at
$29.48/month, or a 3-inch portable meter (output is a male 2-1/2 inch firehose
thread) at $176.98 a month.

The returnable deposit for the portable meter is $400 for the 1-inch meter,
and $1,550 for the 3-inch meter, which includes the hydrant wrench & hoses
(although they suggest hoses from Royal Brass at http://rbisj.com).

It turns out that most, if not all, of the bulk water delivery companies
use this method to obtain their water, so, what you're paying for is the
trucking.

Hertz Equipment Rental in San Jose rents a flatbed, which requires only a
normal class C drivers license, for $245/day, which will hold about 8,000
pounds (about 1,000 gallons of water in a plastic tank). The first 50 miles
are free, and then it's 25 cents a mile thereafter.

They don't recommend the 2,000 gallon 'water truck' which requires a Class A
(commercial) drivers license, and costs $459/day, plus 30 cents a mile, because
there is no telling what water was in there prior, so you can't drink from it.

A quick estimate for the costs & logistics for a day's rental might be something like:
a) $5 for each 1,000 gallons of water from SJWC
b) $50 for 1 day rental of the 2-1/2 inch output 3" portable meter
c) $250 for 1 day flatbed truck rental from Hertz
d) $500 for 1 brand new 1,000 gallon water tank from Tractor Supply Company (or equivalent)
e) $100 sales tax on the new water tank & other incidentals

Any other helpful suggestions for me to provide to the neighbors for trucking
in potable water during the drought?

DannyD. wrote, on Fri, 27 Jun 2014 21:16:36 +0000:

Any other helpful suggestions for me to provide to the neighbors for trucking
in potable water during the drought?

How much water is in a waterbed?
Can it fit in a pickup?

On 6/27/2014 4:16 PM, DannyD. wrote:
Do you have experience or ideas for trucking potable water to a residence?

....

A quick estimate for the costs& logistics for a day's rental might be something like:
a) $5 for each 1,000 gallons of water from SJWC
b) $50 for 1 day rental of the 2-1/2 inch output 3" portable meter
c) $250 for 1 day flatbed truck rental from Hertz
d) $500 for 1 brand new 1,000 gallon water tank from Tractor Supply Company (or equivalent)
e) $100 sales tax on the new water tank& other incidentals

Any other helpful suggestions for me to provide to the neighbors for trucking
in potable water during the drought?

How many of 'em are there? I'd think if they'd just pool together could
buy a used trailer for the tank and surely somebody has a PU to pull it?
WOuldn't take long to make up for the repeated truck rental.

It's how many of the "city farmers" here haul water to their
horses/etc., where don't have wells everywhere. We haul in 300-gal
tanks to field tanks but have the grain trucks with which to do it
already so that's no additional expense.

--

dpb wrote, on Fri, 27 Jun 2014 16:56:24 -0500:

How many of 'em are there?

There are about 50 neighbors in the neighborhood, but, of course,
not everyone will be willing to pitch in. Just those with the
shallower wells (less than about 500 feet or so deep).

I'd think if they'd just pool together could buy a used trailer
for the tank and surely somebody has a PU to pull it?
WOuldn't take long to make up for the repeated truck rental.

Can a typical trailer hold 1,000 gallons (8,000 pounds)?
Can a pickup pull that up a windy 9% grade for about 5 miles?

If so, that's a good idea, since the truck rental is the
largest cost. The water itself is practically free.

Of course, we'd also need a pump...

On 6/27/14, 5:59 PM, DannyD. wrote:
dpb wrote, on Fri, 27 Jun 2014 16:56:24 -0500:

How many of 'em are there?

There are about 50 neighbors in the neighborhood, but, of course,
not everyone will be willing to pitch in. Just those with the
shallower wells (less than about 500 feet or so deep).

I'd think if they'd just pool together could buy a used trailer
for the tank and surely somebody has a PU to pull it?
WOuldn't take long to make up for the repeated truck rental.

Can a typical trailer hold 1,000 gallons (8,000 pounds)?
Can a pickup pull that up a windy 9% grade for about 5 miles?

If so, that's a good idea, since the truck rental is the
largest cost. The water itself is practically free.

Of course, we'd also need a pump...


How about several (3 or 4) neighbors with pickup trucks outfitted with
smaller (100gal=800#) tanks in the bed of pickup making 2 or 3 runs
to/from source ??

On 6/27/2014 4:59 PM, DannyD. wrote:
dpb wrote, on Fri, 27 Jun 2014 16:56:24 -0500:

How many of 'em are there?

There are about 50 neighbors in the neighborhood, but, of course,
not everyone will be willing to pitch in. Just those with the
shallower wells (less than about 500 feet or so deep).

I'd think if they'd just pool together could buy a used trailer
for the tank and surely somebody has a PU to pull it?
WOuldn't take long to make up for the repeated truck rental.

Can a typical trailer hold 1,000 gallons (8,000 pounds)?
Can a pickup pull that up a windy 9% grade for about 5 miles?

If so, that's a good idea, since the truck rental is the
largest cost. The water itself is practically free.

Of course, we'd also need a pump...

A double-axle car hauler is rated at 14k or so...a good stout truck can
easily handle 8k, altho over a grade you'd appreciate a 1T. And say if
it is limiting w/ a small PU and you only run a 500 gal tank/load, how
far is the haul? Still likely a cost-saver.

Iff'en one really looked, one could likely find a used goosneck for not
terribly more than a new bumper-hitch car hauler, but that would, of
course, take somebody w/ something to pull it. Not a horsey outfit,
apparently, or there's be a bunch of 'em around for the horse trailers,
I'd think.

The ? is how many are low on water and how many that aren't now will be
shortly if conditions don't change shortly?

--

In article ,
"DannyD." wrote:

dpb wrote, on Fri, 27 Jun 2014 16:56:24 -0500:

How many of 'em are there?

There are about 50 neighbors in the neighborhood, but, of course,
not everyone will be willing to pitch in. Just those with the
shallower wells (less than about 500 feet or so deep).


Which brings up another question. Using whatever method you decide on,
how long will it take to break even on just having the current well
drilled deeper.
--
€œStatistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital.€�
€” Aaron Levenstein

"DannyD." wrote in message
...
Do you have experience or ideas for trucking potable water to a residence?

We haven't had rain in a year or so, and some of my neighbor's wells are
running
dry. They asked me to figure out an efficient way to get water to them
because
the bulk water delivery companies are really lousy on service & costs.

The San Jose Water Company sells water out of the fire hydrants at $2.70
per
CCF (i.e., $2.71 per 748 gallons) after we rent a "portable meter", either
a
1-inch portable meter (output is a male 3/4-inch garden hose thread) at
$29.48/month, or a 3-inch portable meter (output is a male 2-1/2 inch
firehose
thread) at $176.98 a month.

The returnable deposit for the portable meter is $400 for the 1-inch
meter,
and $1,550 for the 3-inch meter, which includes the hydrant wrench & hoses
(although they suggest hoses from Royal Brass at http://rbisj.com).

It turns out that most, if not all, of the bulk water delivery companies
use this method to obtain their water, so, what you're paying for is the
trucking.

Hertz Equipment Rental in San Jose rents a flatbed, which requires only a
normal class C drivers license, for $245/day, which will hold about 8,000
pounds (about 1,000 gallons of water in a plastic tank). The first 50
miles
are free, and then it's 25 cents a mile thereafter.

They don't recommend the 2,000 gallon 'water truck' which requires a Class
A
(commercial) drivers license, and costs $459/day, plus 30 cents a mile,
because
there is no telling what water was in there prior, so you can't drink from
it.

A quick estimate for the costs & logistics for a day's rental might be
something like:
a) $5 for each 1,000 gallons of water from SJWC
b) $50 for 1 day rental of the 2-1/2 inch output 3" portable meter
c) $250 for 1 day flatbed truck rental from Hertz
d) $500 for 1 brand new 1,000 gallon water tank from Tractor Supply
Company (or equivalent)
e) $100 sales tax on the new water tank & other incidentals

Any other helpful suggestions for me to provide to the neighbors for
trucking
in potable water during the drought?

did you say how much the commercial water delivery companies charge? That
would be interesting to know.

How far apart are these 50 neighbors? How far from the nearest fire
hydrant?

Is the meter rental $50 per day, every day? Or is it less by the week or by
the season?

what equipment is already available to these residents? Pickup trucks?
Trailers?

CY: Text inserted after my initials.

On 6/27/2014 5:16 PM, DannyD. wrote:
Do you have experience or ideas for trucking potable water to a residence?
CY: Never done it, but willing to think some about it.


We haven't had rain in a year or so, and some of my neighbor's wells are running
dry. They asked me to figure out an efficient way to get water to them because
the bulk water delivery companies are really lousy on service & costs.

CY: How close is the nearest neighbor with municipal water? Or the
nearest muni hyddrant?

The San Jose Water Company sells water out of the fire hydrants at $2.70 per
CCF (i.e., $2.71 per 748 gallons) after we rent a "portable meter", either a
1-inch portable meter (output is a male 3/4-inch garden hose thread) at
$29.48/month, or a 3-inch portable meter (output is a male 2-1/2 inch firehose
thread) at $176.98 a month.

CY: In the NYS areas, hydrant water is often rather
muddy brown, the house taps are on top of the mains,
and hydrant on the side. So, please note that you
may need to flush the hydrant to get the rust out.
Or use a hydrant someone else used the other day.


The returnable deposit for the portable meter is $400 for the 1-inch meter,
and $1,550 for the 3-inch meter, which includes the hydrant wrench & hoses
(although they suggest hoses from Royal Brass at http://rbisj.com).

CY: With the 3/4, it may take several hours to fill a tank. Not sure.


It turns out that most, if not all, of the bulk water delivery companies
use this method to obtain their water, so, what you're paying for is the
trucking.
CY: And the manpower.


Hertz Equipment Rental in San Jose rents a flatbed, which requires only a
normal class C drivers license, for $245/day, which will hold about 8,000
pounds (about 1,000 gallons of water in a plastic tank). The first 50 miles
are free, and then it's 25 cents a mile thereafter.

CY: That could add up in a hurry.


They don't recommend the 2,000 gallon 'water truck' which requires a Class A
(commercial) drivers license, and costs $459/day, plus 30 cents a mile, because
there is no telling what water was in there prior, so you can't drink from it.

A quick estimate for the costs & logistics for a day's rental might be something like:
a) $5 for each 1,000 gallons of water from SJWC
b) $50 for 1 day rental of the 2-1/2 inch output 3" portable meter
c) $250 for 1 day flatbed truck rental from Hertz
d) $500 for 1 brand new 1,000 gallon water tank from Tractor Supply Company (or equivalent)
e) $100 sales tax on the new water tank & other incidentals

Any other helpful suggestions for me to provide to the neighbors for trucking
in potable water during the drought?


CY: I knew some folks who used a tap at the local
highway department, and 5 gal cooler jugs. No one
liked to haul jugs, so I'd do a couple of thiers
when I visited.

CY: My one experience hauling water, is that it's
thankless, and you get crap if you miss a day or
let em run out. I used to run jugs of drinking
water to some ingrates, years ago. I ran average
of 3 or 4 gal a day for drinking and cooking,
they had bad well water for laundry and bathing.
Someone mentioned me to the park super, we're not
allowed to truck water out. I mentioned that to the
ingrates, who told me not to bother, they had several
people offer to haul water. I stopped, and about two
days later, they were calling and giving me crap
cause they ran out of coffee. What about all the
people who offered to bring water? Well, they put
empty jugs on their car seats, but no one brought
them back full. I was the only one who actually did.
And so I got a 12 quart motor oil box that concealed
two gal jugs of water, and I carried that in and out
of my trailer a couple times a day. No one figured
that one out. I set up a system with the "man" of the
house, put the empties on a bottom shelf of cabinet.
I also arrange the system with the wife, and all three
teen daughters. I'd come in, look, no empties. They
gave me crap, and they were all out of water again.
I checked some of the fullies on top shelf, they were
all empty, and no one knew to put the empties on
bottom shelf. Idiots.

You might want to consider that you're going to be the
only one hauling, and the neighbors may be as ingrate as
these idiots I helped.

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 6/27/2014 6:44 PM, Kurt Ullman wrote:


Which brings up another question. Using whatever method you decide on,
how long will it take to break even on just having the current well
drilled deeper.


How far from the muni water, and practical
to tie in?

If someone a half mile away has muni water,
can you run a LONG several lengths of hose?

Maybe this is your new job, since there appears
be a real need, and very few people have attention
to detail.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 6/27/2014 5:59 PM, DannyD. wrote:
There are about 50 neighbors in the neighborhood, but, of course,
not everyone will be willing to pitch in. Just those with the
shallower wells (less than about 500 feet or so deep).

CY: You figure to set up a local tank, or just
dump water into the wells, and juice up the
aquifier?

I'd think if they'd just pool together could buy a used trailer
for the tank and surely somebody has a PU to pull it?
WOuldn't take long to make up for the repeated truck rental.

Can a typical trailer hold 1,000 gallons (8,000 pounds)?
Can a pickup pull that up a windy 9% grade for about 5 miles?

CY: I'd doubt that weight. You'd have to find some
one and check their owners manual for that spec.
Might need towing package, and transmission cooler,
and all that.


If so, that's a good idea, since the truck rental is the
largest cost. The water itself is practically free.

Of course, we'd also need a pump...

CY: Pump for what? Sounds like you use hydrant pressure
to fill the tank, and gravity to drain the tank into
someone's well.

On 6/27/2014 6:11 PM, Retired wrote:

How about several (3 or 4) neighbors with
pickup trucks outfitted with
smaller (100gal=800#) tanks in the bed of
pickup making 2 or 3 runs
to/from source ??

Danny will have as much success getting
others to haul water, as the HO who I
tried to help. Really, there are VERY
few people who can and will do this kind
of task.

I do wish Danny all the best, but this is
my personal experience with a similar
situation.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Fri, 27 Jun 2014 21:16:36 +0000 (UTC), "DannyD."
wrote:

The San Jose Water Company sells water out of the fire hydrants at $2.70 per
CCF (i.e., $2.71 per 748 gallons) after we rent a "portable meter", either a
1-inch portable meter (output is a male 3/4-inch garden hose thread) at
$29.48/month, or a 3-inch portable meter (output is a male 2-1/2 inch firehose
thread) at $176.98 a month.

I can't help you with advice for getting the water delivered, but I
can give you some advice if you opt for the "firehose" thread option.
Back in the day it was not all that uncommon for several neighboring
towns to all have different threads on their hydrants. There used to
be dozens of threads used on hydrants and I'm confident that has
become more standardized over the years. My advice is make sure you
know what threads are on the hydrant(s) you would use.

Good luck.

On Friday, June 27, 2014 8:11:27 PM UTC-4, Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jun 2014 21:16:36 +0000 (UTC), "DannyD."

wrote:



The San Jose Water Company sells water out of the fire hydrants at $2.70 per

CCF (i.e., $2.71 per 748 gallons) after we rent a "portable meter", either a

1-inch portable meter (output is a male 3/4-inch garden hose thread) at

$29.48/month, or a 3-inch portable meter (output is a male 2-1/2 inch firehose

thread) at $176.98 a month.



I can't help you with advice for getting the water delivered, but I

can give you some advice if you opt for the "firehose" thread option.

Back in the day it was not all that uncommon for several neighboring

towns to all have different threads on their hydrants. There used to

be dozens of threads used on hydrants and I'm confident that has

become more standardized over the years. My advice is make sure you

know what threads are on the hydrant(s) you would use.



Good luck.

If he rents a truck, then he needs a 1000 gallon tank, which
isn't going to be cheap, plus a pump probably. Then he has to store
the tank when it's not used, put it on the truck, secure it somehow
etc. It doesn't sound that practical to me. And if you screw up and
the tank full of water slides off when making a turn, you could
crush the hippie chick in the VW.

So.... Why not just rent a potable water tank truck? I would think
they must be available. And you can probably get one that holds
more than 1000 gallons too.

I'm left wondering where the water goes when it's delivered? Are
these folks going to get at least a 500 gallon tank to put it in?
Or is someone going to be making daily deliveries?

And the final question is how much you all would save assuming
you chip in, compared to an existing water delivery service.
If it's not a lot, IMO it may not be worth getting
involved.

Also, IDK how this all works, but a lot of times, when a community
is hit like this, doesn't the local fire company start delivering
water for free or some nominal charge? Maybe getting that organized
would be more productive.

"DannyD." wrote:

How many of 'em are there?

There are about 50 neighbors in the neighborhood, but, of course,
not everyone will be willing to pitch in. Just those with the
shallower wells (less than about 500 feet or so deep).

Regardless how many of them cooperate in a bulk water purchase, where
are each of them going to store the water?

Presumably if you normally have well water, you won't necessarily need
or have a storage tank along the lines of a few hundred gallons if the
water is (or was) always available.

On 6/27/14, 4:16 PM, DannyD. wrote:
Do you have experience or ideas for trucking potable water to a residence?

We haven't had rain in a year or so, and some of my neighbor's wells are running
dry. They asked me to figure out an efficient way to get water to them because
the bulk water delivery companies are really lousy on service & costs.

The San Jose Water Company sells water out of the fire hydrants at $2.70 per
CCF (i.e., $2.71 per 748 gallons) after we rent a "portable meter", either a
1-inch portable meter (output is a male 3/4-inch garden hose thread) at
$29.48/month, or a 3-inch portable meter (output is a male 2-1/2 inch firehose
thread) at $176.98 a month.

Cut rest.

Farmers in my area apply NH3 for corn fertilizer. It's not unusual
for them to pull a couple 1000 gallon NH3 trailers behind a pickup.
Some examples he http://alturl.com/m3cto
You could buy just the running gear then mount your own tank.

Retired wrote, on Fri, 27 Jun 2014 18:11:53 -0400:

How about several (3 or 4) neighbors with pickup trucks outfitted with
smaller (100gal=800#) tanks in the bed of pickup making 2 or 3 runs
to/from source ??

That might work.

dpb wrote, on Fri, 27 Jun 2014 17:16:41 -0500:

A double-axle car hauler is rated at 14k or so...a good stout truck can
easily handle 8k, altho over a grade you'd appreciate a 1T. And say if
it is limiting w/ a small PU and you only run a 500 gal tank/load, how
far is the haul? Still likely a cost-saver.

It's less than 5 miles from the fire hydrant but the grade is a windy 9%.
I never owned a pickup, nor a trailer, so I'm unfamiliar with what they
can carry.

dpb wrote, on Fri, 27 Jun 2014 17:16:41 -0500:

The ? is how many are low on water and how many that aren't now will be
shortly if conditions don't change shortly?

That's the real problem. Right now, only two are actually *out* of water
(they are using it faster than it comes in).

The rest of them (including me) are *slow* on water, which just means
that it will only get worse since the next forcasted rainfall is some
time around Halloween.

Kurt Ullman wrote, on Fri, 27 Jun 2014 18:44:25 -0400:

Which brings up another question. Using whatever method you decide on,
how long will it take to break even on just having the current well
drilled deeper.

Good question.

How much does it cost to drill a well an additional 100 feet?

I don't know. Mine are something like 400 feet deep (I think), but
what would it cost to drill that to 500 feet? I don't know.

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Fri, 27 Jun 2014 19:18:56 -0400:

How far from the muni water, and practical
to tie in?

The fire hydrants are about five miles away, and that's the
absolute closest to municipal water (San Jose Water Company).

Maybe this is your new job, since there appears
be a real need, and very few people have attention
to detail.

I'm thinking of building a how-to web site, where I test free
android apps, or that I write how to's for people who know as
little as I do. Maybe .. some day ...

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Fri, 27 Jun 2014 19:21:57 -0400:

CY: You figure to set up a local tank, or just
dump water into the wells, and juice up the
aquifier?

Just dump water into the tanks.

Everyone, by code, has to have something like 10,000 gallons or
15,000 minimum (codes changed over time) so we would just
dump the water into the top of the water tank that every
house has.

In article ,
"DannyD." wrote:

Do you have experience or ideas for trucking potable water to a residence?

We haven't had rain in a year or so, and some of my neighbor's wells are
running
dry. They asked me to figure out an efficient way to get water to them
because
the bulk water delivery companies are really lousy on service & costs.

The San Jose Water Company sells water out of the fire hydrants at $2.70 per
CCF (i.e., $2.71 per 748 gallons) after we rent a "portable meter", either a
1-inch portable meter (output is a male 3/4-inch garden hose thread) at
$29.48/month, or a 3-inch portable meter (output is a male 2-1/2 inch
firehose
thread) at $176.98 a month.

The returnable deposit for the portable meter is $400 for the 1-inch meter,
and $1,550 for the 3-inch meter, which includes the hydrant wrench & hoses
(although they suggest hoses from Royal Brass at http://rbisj.com).

It turns out that most, if not all, of the bulk water delivery companies
use this method to obtain their water, so, what you're paying for is the
trucking.

Hertz Equipment Rental in San Jose rents a flatbed, which requires only a
normal class C drivers license, for $245/day, which will hold about 8,000
pounds (about 1,000 gallons of water in a plastic tank). The first 50 miles
are free, and then it's 25 cents a mile thereafter.

They don't recommend the 2,000 gallon 'water truck' which requires a Class A
(commercial) drivers license, and costs $459/day, plus 30 cents a mile,
because
there is no telling what water was in there prior, so you can't drink from
it.

A quick estimate for the costs & logistics for a day's rental might be
something like:
a) $5 for each 1,000 gallons of water from SJWC
b) $50 for 1 day rental of the 2-1/2 inch output 3" portable meter
c) $250 for 1 day flatbed truck rental from Hertz
d) $500 for 1 brand new 1,000 gallon water tank from Tractor Supply Company
(or equivalent)
e) $100 sales tax on the new water tank & other incidentals

Any other helpful suggestions for me to provide to the neighbors for trucking
in potable water during the drought?

How much would it cost to deepen a/the wells? you could get several
households to pay for the cost of deepening one or more of the wells and
distribute the water via a smaller, truck mountable tank

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Fri, 27 Jun 2014 19:21:57 -0400:

CY: Pump for what? Sounds like you use hydrant pressure
to fill the tank, and gravity to drain the tank into
someone's well.

The fire hydrant would likely fill the tank on the truck,
but, the homeowner water tanks are ten to fifteen (or so)
feet up in the air, and some are on hills above the houses.

So, the pump is to get the water from the truck all the
way up (maybe fifteen or twenty feet?) to the top of the
water tank, which is the only ready-made opening.

HomeGuy wrote, on Fri, 27 Jun 2014 21:48:00 -0400:

Regardless how many of them cooperate in a bulk water purchase, where
are each of them going to store the water?

Presumably if you normally have well water, you won't necessarily need
or have a storage tank along the lines of a few hundred gallons if the
water is (or was) always available.

Everyone has 10,000 or 15,000 gallon tanks of water. Most have two
or three large tanks. I don't think anyone doesn't have a tank or three.

So, that's where the water would be stored.

Pico Rico wrote, on Fri, 27 Jun 2014 16:01:57 -0700:

did you say how much the commercial water delivery companies charge? That
would be interesting to know.

I had called this water service a while ago to fill my pool:
Franks Water Service, 20915 Old Santa Cruz Highway, 408-353-1343

He told me to get someone else because he didn't deliver up the hills,
but, he said it would cost about $4,000 to fill a 40,000 gallon pool.

How far apart are these 50 neighbors?

Total of about 4 miles from end to end (as the crow flies).

How far from the nearest fire hydrant?

Average of about five miles from the nearest San Jose Water Company
fire hydrant to the residences. That's why everyone has their own well.


Is the meter rental $50 per day, every day?
Or is it less by the week or by the season?

Actually it's by the month, but I just divided by 30 to get the
daily cost. I didn't ask them at the San Jose Water Company what their
shortest rental period is (I can call them Monday at 408-279-7835).

what equipment is already available to these residents?
Pickup trucks? Trailers?

Some have horses, so they have trailers. I don't have any of that,
and none have volunteered any equipment yet. Some have pickups,
but, it's not farm land, so, most just have Lexus SUVs & Prius'
sedans.

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Fri, 27 Jun 2014 19:17:03 -0400:

CY: How close is the nearest neighbor with municipal water? Or the
nearest muni hyddrant?

Five miles to the nearest hydrants.

Muni water is the same, but there isn't any access that I know of,
other than through the hydrants.

Gordon Shumway wrote, on Fri, 27 Jun 2014 19:11:27 -0500:

My advice is make sure you
know what threads are on the hydrant(s) you would use.

I understand.
There is apparently an "iron pipe" thread, and a "brass fire hose" thread.

I think. I'm not sure, but that will be a detail that must be considered
when the trucking part is figured out.

All of us have what is called a "wharf hydrant" on our residences
which is tied to the bottom 1/3 of the water tanks on the property.

It's the code for Santa Clara County that each house has their own
fire hydrant, but these hydrants are tall skinny things, but I think
the hose is the same as the smaller opening on the San Jose Water Company
fire hydrants miles away.

trader_4 wrote, on Fri, 27 Jun 2014 18:01:32 -0700:

So.... Why not just rent a potable water tank truck? I would think
they must be available. And you can probably get one that holds
more than 1000 gallons too.

The problem with the Hertz water tank trucks is that they only have
2,000 gallons, which (a) requires a class A license, and (b) they say
they would never recommend you drink out of it because they're mostly
used as sprayers at construction sites.

Hertz Equipment Rental 408-451-9320

trader_4 wrote, on Fri, 27 Jun 2014 18:01:32 -0700:


I'm left wondering where the water goes when it's delivered? Are
these folks going to get at least a 500 gallon tank to put it in?
Or is someone going to be making daily deliveries?

Everyone has 10,000 to 15,000 gallons of water storage on their
property. It's the code (grandfathered and changed over time).

trader_4 wrote, on Fri, 27 Jun 2014 18:01:32 -0700:

Also, IDK how this all works, but a lot of times, when a community
is hit like this, doesn't the local fire company start delivering
water for free or some nominal charge? Maybe getting that organized
would be more productive.

That's an interesting idea!

I will ask them tomorrow (or maybe Monday).

That's the kind of innovative suggestions I was hoping to find from
the collective mind!

Thanks!

"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message

Which brings up another question. Using whatever method you decide on,
how long will it take to break even on just having the current well
drilled deeper.

Which brings up another question: So how long before even the deeper wells
run dry? I've read this is not just a drought-induced issue but that the
water table in that area has been receding for decades due to groundwater
pumping. There are also some interesting geological questions relating to
whether an ever-smaller water table might have an effect on future
earthquakes.

"When humans deplete groundwater," said Benoit, "the amount of mass or
material in Earth's crust is reduced. That disrupts Earth's force balances,
causing uplift of nearby mountains and reducing a force that helps keep the
San Andreas fault from slipping."

http://www.nsf.gov/news/news_summ.jsp?cntn_id=131393

We've seen that fracking induces earthquakes, albeit small ones, but I think
the jury's still out on what effect all the water-shifting that goes on in
that part of the country will have in the long run.

It's important to remember that areas of lush vegetation have become deserts
in very short geological timespans because of volcanic eruptions or other
major events. You don't have to go very far inland in California to find
plenty of deserts.

It won't be long before we start strapping huge engines on icebergs and
steering them toward Califonia to keep the nation's agriculture center
afloat. (-;

--
Bobby G.

Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds wrote, on Fri, 27 Jun 2014 21:39:22 -0700:


How much would it cost to deepen a/the wells? you could get several
households to pay for the cost of deepening one or more of the wells and
distribute the water via a smaller, truck mountable tank

The way it works here is that each homeowner has their own well, so,
there wouldn't be any sharing of drilling costs.

I have two wells, for example. Neither one puts out more than a few
gallons before shutting off lately.

On Fri, 27 Jun 2014 19:18:56 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

How far from the muni water, and practical to tie in?

Note that it's not just the distance, it's the height. Danny is
talking about 5 miles at 9% grade. Maybe the 5 miles isn't all on the
grade, but it sounds like his 'hood may be 2000' above that closest
muni water. It takes 1000 psi to raise water 2000'. Therefore it would
not just be a matter of running pipe, it would also require new pumps
-- either pipe to handle 1000 psi and a very hefty pump, or normal
pipe and several stages of pumps.

Edward

Oh, and if you use that 1000 gallon tank ... remember that unless it
has internal baffles, it must be FULL while you are driving.
Otherwise, the sloshing will turn your truck over or drag the tank off
the truck. And this is a big problem since you are planning to empty
it in several stages. You could try driving very slowly when it's not
full, but given the kind of terrain you are talking about, I suspect
that won't be enough.

Perhaps you can get a tank with baffles. I suspect that $500 won't buy
it, but I could be wrong.

Or you could simply deliver each full load to just one resident. With
the size tanks you are talking about, you'd have to do some planning,
but it sounds feasible.

Edward

Edward Reid wrote, on Sat, 28 Jun 2014 02:05:26 -0400:

Maybe the 5 miles isn't all on the
grade, but it sounds like his 'hood may be 2000' above that closest
muni water.

This is an astute calculation.
The municipal water supply is at about 300 to 600 feet elevation.
The houses are all well above 2000 feet elevation.

Edward Reid wrote, on Sat, 28 Jun 2014 02:11:19 -0400:

it must be FULL while you are driving.
Otherwise, the sloshing will turn your truck over or drag the tank off
the truck.

This is interesting! And thought provoking!

On 6/27/2014 8:11 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:

I can't help you with advice for getting the water delivered, but I
can give you some advice if you opt for the "firehose" thread option.
Back in the day it was not all that uncommon for several neighboring
towns to all have different threads on their hydrants. There used to
be dozens of threads used on hydrants and I'm confident that has
become more standardized over the years. My advice is make sure you
know what threads are on the hydrant(s) you would use.

Good luck.


In theory they "all" use national standard
thread, but there are exceptions. Near me,
Newark, NY has a ******* thread, and Rochester
NY also.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 6/28/2014 12:38 AM, DannyD. wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Fri, 27 Jun 2014 19:21:57 -0400:

CY: You figure to set up a local tank, or just
dump water into the wells, and juice up the
aquifier?

Just dump water into the tanks.

Everyone, by code, has to have something like 10,000 gallons or
15,000 minimum (codes changed over time) so we would just
dump the water into the top of the water tank that every
house has.

Five miles is too long for garden hose, even if
it had the flow and pressure.

The local tanks, are the tanks inground, or above
ground? Inground, you can probably gravity drain
from the truck tank.

I sense this will turn into a one man project, and
that one man will be rather busy.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 6/28/2014 12:40 AM, DannyD. wrote:
The fire hydrant would likely fill the tank on the truck,
but, the homeowner water tanks are ten to fifteen (or so)
feet up in the air, and some are on hills above the houses.

So, the pump is to get the water from the truck all the
way up (maybe fifteen or twenty feet?) to the top of the
water tank, which is the only ready-made opening.


"Now that you have read all the posts before replying
to the posts, put your name on the top of the paper
and turn it in."

Since houses all have electric (right?) you can use a HF
or similar well pump. Since you figure to do this more than
once, you can build a fill pipe or tap into the existing
fill system, for your own use. Ideally, there is existing
way they fill the tanks, from the well. You can put in a
valve, to fill from the truck. Run an extension cord down
two flight of stairs, and move the washing machine to get
at the good electric socket behind the washing machine for
each tank load of water. Could turn into good exercise.

I can see this turning into a major social event for the
delivery guy, as it may take an hour (or more) to pump
the truck tank to the house tank. Won't you please come
in and tell me all about aunt Myrtle's lumbago? And how's
Aunt Bee doing? Goober says hey.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..