In article ,
says...

This is America. English is spoken here. You want to speak your native
language, speak it at home amongst your friends and relatives. My parents,
their families and millions of others came here many years ago. They had to
learn the language and went to night schools to do so. They still spoke
their native tongues at home but learned to read and write English and
always spoke to the children in English. We have immigrants from many parts
of the world. Why not have signs in their languages? We have Russian,
Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese, etc. Why do we pander to the Hispanics? Why do
we have to pay for bilingual teachers to accomadate them when we can't
afford to hire English speaking teachers to educate our children?

So, when my local government prints voters guides and ballots in
Chinese, they're pandering to Hispanics?

--
is Joshua Putnam
http://www.phred.org/~josh/
Updated Bicycle Touring Books List:
http://www.phred.org/~josh/bike/tourbooks.html

In article ,
"
" Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe
free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless,
tempest-tossed, to me. I lift my lamp beside the golden door." (As long as
they speak English) ...

No, as long as they willing to LEARN to speak English. The Irish,
Italians, and every other wave of immigrants did that as part of their
assimilation to society.

In article mrvYf.11149$I%6.9566@fed1read12,
says...


This is America. Love it or leave it. If you love it, learn to speak at
least conversational English within one year. If you can't, you are so
stupid that you won't make a good citizen anyway.

Oh, those poor stupid Mennonites, here for *centuries* and many are
still so stupid they speak German.

--
is Joshua Putnam
http://www.phred.org/~josh/
Updated Infrared Photography Gallery:
http://www.phred.org/~josh/photo/ir.html

In article ,
Joshua Putnam wrote:

In article mrvYf.11149$I%6.9566@fed1read12,
says...


This is America. Love it or leave it. If you love it, learn to speak at
least conversational English within one year. If you can't, you are so
stupid that you won't make a good citizen anyway.

Oh, those poor stupid Mennonites, here for *centuries* and many are
still so stupid they speak German.

All, at least the ones I grew up with, spoke English, also. The
debate is seldom about English only, but hey don't let that get in your
way...

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
. ..


I've had to deal with enough Hispanics with little or no English.

Funny, that has never happened to me. I have never consider it a
problem when I have been in countries where I did not understand the local
language. I have always managed to get by.

Same here. As long as I made a little effort to attempt their language, I've
always found foreigners to be helpful. Maybe if you don't act like un
pendejo, it helps.

"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"
" Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe
free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the
homeless,
tempest-tossed, to me. I lift my lamp beside the golden door." (As long
as
they speak English) ...

No, as long as they willing to LEARN to speak English. The Irish,
Italians, and every other wave of immigrants did that as part of their
assimilation to society.


Hopefully, this language thing concerned you just as much during the last
election. :-)

"Joshua Putnam" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

This is America. English is spoken here. You want to speak your native
language, speak it at home amongst your friends and relatives. My
parents,
their families and millions of others came here many years ago. They had
to
learn the language and went to night schools to do so. They still spoke
their native tongues at home but learned to read and write English and
always spoke to the children in English. We have immigrants from many
parts
of the world. Why not have signs in their languages? We have Russian,
Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese, etc. Why do we pander to the Hispanics? Why
do
we have to pay for bilingual teachers to accomadate them when we can't
afford to hire English speaking teachers to educate our children?

So, when my local government prints voters guides and ballots in
Chinese, they're pandering to Hispanics?


Let's see....they print them in Chinese because Chinese citizens contribute
something positive to the society, and pay taxes. I wonder why some people
have problems extending that concept to Hispanics? Or, "Hispanicals", as a
certain George likes to say.

"Keith Williams" wrote in message
T...
In article ,
says...
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
. ..
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
. ..
Doug Kanter wrote:
"JerryL" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"JerryL" wrote in message
...

My parents, their families and millions of others came here many
years ago. They had to learn the language and went to night
schools to do so.

While they were learning, did they have servants to venture out
into the world for them to buy food, or did they find merchants
who spoke their native language?

In those days, people with similar languages or that came from
similar countries used to settle in certain areas so that you could
always find someone that spoke your language. I remember as a kid
going into stores and when the storekeeper starting speaking their
native tongue to my mother, she would reply "Speak English or we
will never learn how to".

Sadly, there are no Hispanic people like that. None. Absolutely
none. Zip.

Spoken like a true bigot.

--
Joseph Meehan

Joseph, I was being sarcastic. Taking things to the absurd, if you
will.

It's too bad that we live in a country where it is not obvious that
you
were being sarcastic. There are too many people who believe it.
Joseph Meehan


Left turn! Last week, NPR was interviewing people in Washington DC -
protesters on both sides of the new immigration law issue. One guy was
especially interesting - a construction worker originally from Mexico. He
said (in perfect English) "I never finished school, but I still read a
lot
of history. From what I can figure out, NOBODY came here legally in the
beginning!"

Umm, "in the beginning" there were no immigration laws so it would
be *impossible* for them to have come here illegally, "in the
beginning".

Tell that to the natives, what's left of them.

In article ,
"Doug Kanter" wrote:

"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"
" Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe
free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the
homeless,
tempest-tossed, to me. I lift my lamp beside the golden door." (As long
as
they speak English) ...

No, as long as they willing to LEARN to speak English. The Irish,
Italians, and every other wave of immigrants did that as part of their
assimilation to society.


Hopefully, this language thing concerned you just as much during the last
election. :-)

Not sure what you mean. Actually language should be a non-issue in
elections since (1). you have to learn English to get citizenship
(2)have 18 years to learn it if you get citizenship by being born
here...

In article ,
"Doug Kanter" wrote:

Let's see....they print them in Chinese because Chinese citizens contribute
something positive to the society, and pay taxes. I wonder why some people
have problems extending that concept to Hispanics? Or, "Hispanicals", as a
certain George likes to say.

Actually I am wondering why. It should be a non-issue as I mentioned
in another post.

In article ,

Tell that to the natives, what's left of them.

The various tribes had immigration LAWS in place. Who knew?

Mys Terry wrote:
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 20:52:44 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

Jim Yanik wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in
:

JerryL wrote:
The best way to learn is through immersion -
being dumped right into a new language environment where you have
no choice.

Exactly. Right now we are giving a choice and they are taking the
easy way out by only speaking their native tongue.

And that hurts you exactly how?


If you can't communicate with people,then you can't understand
them,cannot come to common ground.
Just get in a collision with a person who speaks no English,how can
you determine if they are hurt,or get DL and insurance data?
(if they have it at all,chances are that they won't.)

I've had to deal with enough Hispanics with little or no English.

Funny, that has never happened to me. I have never consider it a
problem when I have been in countries where I did not understand the
local language. I have always managed to get by.


Really? How were you at job interviews, or explaining your sick
children's symptoms and medical history to an emergency room doctor?

Gee, I don't think it is likely to happen often in the US. Do you?

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Kurt Ullman wrote:
Funny, that has never happened to me. I have never consider it a
problem when I have been in countries where I did not understand the
local language. I have always managed to get by.
You trying to live in these areas or did you try to get by in the
hotels and tourist sections? BIG difference.

No I got by in the public markets, non-tourist areas. There has always
been ways to communicate, lots of mixed language and pointing usually gets
the job done. More often than not someone around can translate.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
"JosEnglish is THE language of business and science.

Religion is a unifying factor, do you also suggest that we
should make religious requirements? How about what sports we like,
that is also a unifying factor, let's outlaw rowing (too English).

That's BS. There never has been one overriding religion that
everyone needed to adhere to.

And there has never been one overriding language that everyone needed to
adhere to. :-)

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Joseph Meehan wrote:
Joey wrote:

Hi all,

Just heard on the Fox news that they reported a Home Depot store that
required (1) all inside signs had to have the Spanish equalivent under
the English heading and (2) it was against store policy to fly the
American flag anywhere on the store property.

Enough is enough about the illegal Mexicans but has anyone heard this
about HD ?

J


Why do you think it has anything to do with illegal Mexicans. Home
Depot wants to meet their customer's needs. If they have Spanish speaking
customers, it only makes sense that they provide signs for them. How does
that hurt you? More business, more volume lower prices benefit you. Do you
think they are going to eliminate the English signs?

Relax.



Joseph,

I have to agree with the majority here, they should learn English and be
here legally. Someone wrote lettace would go up to $3 from $1, well
that's OK if their unpaid medical bills go down from $1000's to zero.
By the way, I went by my HD here in S.GA and proud to report that a
large US flag is flying in the center top of the building and I didn't
really notice any Spanish on the signs inside.......Thank God !!!!

J

In article ,
"Joseph Meehan" wrote:

Kurt Ullman wrote:
Funny, that has never happened to me. I have never consider it a
problem when I have been in countries where I did not understand the
local language. I have always managed to get by.
You trying to live in these areas or did you try to get by in the
hotels and tourist sections? BIG difference.

No I got by in the public markets, non-tourist areas. There has always
been ways to communicate, lots of mixed language and pointing usually gets
the job done. More often than not someone around can translate.

But you did not try to get a job, especially a good paying one. Try
to go to school to learn things. In otherwords, you weren't living
there. BIG difference, yet again.

Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
"Joseph Meehan" wrote:

Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
"Joseph Meehan" wrote:


But why does it concern you? If they think it makes life
easier to them, they will learn. What other things would you
want to change about them? I wonder what they might want to
change about you? IMO Diversity is one thing that makes a great
country. The fear and hate of diversity is what makes a terrible
country.


It concerns me because it makes for a permanent underclass.

How so?

By not being able to get higher paying jobs, harder to get higher
education, etc. You gonna tell me you know many successful people in
the US who speak ONLY Spanish.

You know, I don't know of very many second generations immigrants from
any country that don't know the local language. You don't have to force
people or sham them into learning the second language. I had some friends
from Africa. Within the first year the father had passable English, the
three kids spoke English better than many US born kids and mom still only
understood a few words of English. Everyone got along fine and dad was
doing very well economically.

I don't want to discourage anyone from learning English, but why do so
many people fear people who don't speak English. Why can't they let others
decide for themselves?




The comments I have read in this thread are not subtle. They
show fear and hate, but mostly a lack of understanding.
Yeah, but I still hold out some hope for you...

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
"Doug Kanter" wrote:

"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"
" Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to
breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send
these, the homeless,
tempest-tossed, to me. I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
(As long as
they speak English) ...

No, as long as they willing to LEARN to speak English. The Irish,
Italians, and every other wave of immigrants did that as part of
their assimilation to society.


Hopefully, this language thing concerned you just as much during the
last election. :-)

Not sure what you mean. Actually language should be a non-issue in
elections since (1). you have to learn English to get citizenship
(2)have 18 years to learn it if you get citizenship by being born
here...

Not true. I earned my citizenship with no language requirement.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Charlie,

What a shame !!!! Glad it's not that way here in S.GA as I went to my
HD today and a US flag was flying on the top middle of the building and
I didn't really notice any Spanish on the signs inside. But speaking of
your area of FL, I can't order sweet tea in the resturants there either!!

J



Charlie Bress wrote:

In 1982 when I moved to Florida, my spouse decided that there was a store in
Hialeah near Miami that had just what she needed. There was a Home Depot
just across the way. I wanted to pick up some vents for the soffits in our
new house. There was no one in that store who spoke enough English to tell
me where they were.

Charlie


"Joey" wrote in message
...

Hi all,

Just heard on the Fox news that they reported a Home Depot store that
required (1) all inside signs had to have the Spanish equalivent under the
English heading and (2) it was against store policy to fly the American
flag anywhere on the store property.

Enough is enough about the illegal Mexicans but has anyone heard this
about HD ?

J

Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
"
" Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to
breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these,
the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me. I lift my lamp beside the
golden door." (As long as they speak English) ...

No, as long as they willing to LEARN to speak English. The Irish,
Italians, and every other wave of immigrants did that as part of their
assimilation to society.

Why?

Why must they be willing to learn English. Is it just because it makes
you feel uncomfortable?

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Keith Williams wrote:
In article ,
says...
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...


Left turn! Last week, NPR was interviewing people in Washington DC -
protesters on both sides of the new immigration law issue. One guy
was especially interesting - a construction worker originally from
Mexico. He said (in perfect English) "I never finished school, but I
still read a lot of history. From what I can figure out, NOBODY came
here legally in the beginning!"

Umm, "in the beginning" there were no immigration laws so it would
be *impossible* for them to have come here illegally, "in the
beginning".

Define beginning.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

"Joseph Meehan" wrote

Not true. I earned my citizenship with no language requirement.

It might not have been true, back in the day. But, it is true in this day
and age.

http://uscis.gov/graphics/services/natz/index.htm

I wonder how many "Americans" who travel abroad learn the other
languages (fluently) of the countries they reside in for anywhere from
a few weeks to a few years?

Sounds like a bad case of intolerence to me. These people are trying
to eat and feed their families. My wife's ancestors came from Poland.
They never lost their accents till they died. They never learned
fluent English, but they got by. The kids learned "American" English,
which is often not that great anyway.

Stretch

Spike2 wrote:
George E. Cawthon wrote:

grabbitt wrote:

"JerryL" wrote in message
...

This is America. English is spoken here.




the Latinos that come here to the US are from "America". South
America, Central America. They speak other languages. I agree
English is spoken mostly in the US but we [US] don't own the word
"America". We are all "Americans" [yes that includes Canadians]
[soapbox mode off]


Not true and you know it.


no I don't

America is an abbreviation of the United States of America.


no it is not

No other country in North, Central, or South

American have "American" in the title of the country. So it is quite
clear when when says "America" they mean the USA.


not to anyone in the rest of the "Americas" outside of the US

If you don't want to

believe that you are just being obtuse.


United States of "America" is one of many countries in the "Americas".
Try telling someone from any other country in the "Americas" that they
are not "American" and see how far you get with them. You are the one
that is obtuse and US centric. We are all "Americans" whether you like
it or not

Apparently you confuse the names of countries and
the names of continents. I suppose that you think
a South African means anyone living south of the
Sahara Desert. Ok, now I quit rolling with the pigs.

"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...

Apparently you confuse the names of countries and the names of continents.
I suppose that you think a South African means anyone living south of the
Sahara Desert. Ok, now I quit rolling with the pigs.

no I would call that person an African. get it yet? if you are born in
Africa you are an African. That's not too hard for you to understand is it?
Russia= Russian.
Europe=European, America=American.
Apparently you went to a govt school.

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Spike2" wrote in message
...

Doug Kanter wrote:

Let's start over. Earlier, I said this:

"There's a big difference between what's correct in terms of geography,
and
saying someone is "American", which indicates nationality, political
loyalties and certain ways of thinking."

You responded by saying:

"no to me"


Go back. Do you understand the difference between a place on a map, and
the political entities within those places?



the question is do you?



I think you may be eating too much tuna. The mercury's affecting your short
term memory.


Whoops. Actually, mercury affects cognitive
ability. But mercury was a good pick. Remember
about rolling with pigs.

grabbitt wrote:
"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...

Apparently you confuse the names of countries and the names of continents.
I suppose that you think a South African means anyone living south of the
Sahara Desert. Ok, now I quit rolling with the pigs.


no I would call that person an African. get it yet? if you are born in
Africa you are an African. That's not too hard for you to understand is it?
Russia= Russian.
Europe=European, America=American.
Apparently you went to a govt school.



No, I went to geography class. South Africa is a
country.

Lets see. Russian refers to a citizen or resident
of a country. European refers to a resident of a
continent, could be any of several different
countries. American refers to a resident of a
continent, but which one?.

By the way, what the hell is Gov't school? Most
schools in the U.S.A. are public schools, is that
what you mean by gov't school?

Another BTW, your first statement is in obvious
error. Lots of people born in Africa were and
remain, English, French, and German, all of which
could be considered European. And of course, lots
of people born in Africa of native parents or
citizens of countries in Africa have moved to
other continents and become citizens of other
countries and would not be considered African.
I'm not sure how you construct a more untrue
statement.

Maybe a different perspective would be helpful

Most of the Western US were taken by the US from Mexico by Force.

Maybe this is Montezuma's revenge: They are merely taking California and
Mexico back with the power of the bedroom.

Mass-migrations of people are not stoppable. Let's welcome them back. In two
generations they will all speak English and we will all be a little browner.
--
Walter
www.rationality.net
-
"Joey" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

Just heard on the Fox news that they reported a Home Depot store that
required (1) all inside signs had to have the Spanish equalivent under the
English heading and (2) it was against store policy to fly the American
flag anywhere on the store property.

Enough is enough about the illegal Mexicans but has anyone heard this
about HD ?

J

In article ,
says...

that's funny. coming from someone who thinks being born in the Americas
means that person is NOT an American. But being in the political
culture of the US is being an American!?

That's funny. Many of the high school students in San
Antonio Texas who walked out of their classes this past
week claim to be MEXICAN not AMERICAN.

Race, geography, politics ... the use/meanings of words
change with context. That's why words in the
dictionary have multiple definitions.

In article qnDYf.80108$UZ5.14323
@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com,
says...

If you can't communicate with people,then you can't understand
them,cannot come to common ground.
Just get in a collision with a person who speaks no English,how can
you determine if they are hurt,or get DL and insurance data?
(if they have it at all,chances are that they won't.)

I've had to deal with enough Hispanics with little or no English.

Funny, that has never happened to me. I have never consider it a
problem when I have been in countries where I did not understand the
local language. I have always managed to get by.


Really? How were you at job interviews, or explaining your sick
children's symptoms and medical history to an emergency room doctor?

Gee, I don't think it is likely to happen often in the US. Do you?

Non English speaking people place a huge burden on
hospital emergency rooms in California, Texas, Florida,
New York, Illinois, Arizona .... happens thousands of
times a day.

My personal experience involving a car accident. She
spoke prefect English when she asked to use my cell
phone. When the police arrived she 'claimed' not to
speak English. Later she delayed the insurance
investigators by 'claiming' not to speak English. Her
land lord only spoke English, her employer only spoke
English and her boy friend only spoke English.... go
figure.

In article ,
says...
"JerryL" wrote in message
...

My parents, their families and millions of others came here many years
ago. They had to learn the language and went to night schools to do so.

While they were learning, did they have servants to venture out into the
world for them to buy food, or did they find merchants who spoke their
native language?


Mine, like most, had nether servants or merchants who
spoke their native language.

In article EEyYf.78212$UZ5.35382
@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com,
says...
While they were learning, did they have servants to venture out
into the world for them to buy food, or did they find merchants who
spoke their native language?

In those days, people with similar languages or that came from
similar countries used to settle in certain areas so that you could
always find someone that spoke your language. I remember as a kid
going into stores and when the storekeeper starting speaking their
native tongue to my mother, she would reply "Speak English or we
will never learn how to".

Sadly, there are no Hispanic people like that. None. Absolutely none.
Zip.

Spoken like a true bigot.

Bigot .... uncalled for.

In article wbBYf.79522$UZ5.76463
@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com,
says...

I wonder how many of those who are making the biggest fuss have
ancestors who came over illegally.

" Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe
free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless,
tempest-tossed, to me. I lift my lamp beside the golden door." (As long as
they speak English) ...

(As long as they are willing to become Americans and
learn how to speak English)

In article ,
says...
"twfsa" wrote in message
newszsYf.4594$fS6.3135@dukeread11...
Its bad enough those *******s are here illegally, and now we have to cater
to them because there to ****in lazy to lean the language.

Tom

Would you or your children be interested in picking vegetables for four or
five bucks an hour? How about cleaning hotel rooms, or washing dishes in
restaurant kitchens for minimum wage (if you're lucky)?



Nope, they have learned English and other skills that
are important to America's society/economy.

In article ,
says...

"Steve B" wrote in message
news:i2xYf.11159$I%6.2843@fed1read12...

"Doug Kanter" wrote

Would you or your children be interested in picking vegetables for four
or five bucks an hour? How about cleaning hotel rooms, or washing dishes
in restaurant kitchens for minimum wage (if you're lucky)?


If they wouldn't learn English, I would not expect any more of them than
that.

Steve


That's not the point!

It is the point.

In article ,
says...

Not if there are methods to do so that are cheaper/more available.
There is no incentive to look precisely because the other way is
available. Illegal immigration that is studiously ignored by government
essentially is a subsidy to farmers.
It is Econ 101.

Possible for some crops, but the fact remains that there *are* some which
are simply too delicate to be managed with machinery.

Name one crop that can not be managed with machinery
that is *required* for adequate human nutrition.

In article ,
says...

If I had no other way to feed my family, yes I'd work for 4 or 5 bucks an
hour. No, it's better a portion of our society has the mentality not to
work for minimum wages so they sponge off the rest of the taxpayers by
collecting welfare. If they were told they have to do these jobs before
they received all the freebies they get then we'd have people to do those
jobs.


If, by some miracle, all "illegal" immigrants were stopped at border, or
deported, you and/or your kids would have no choice but to take these farm
jobs, eventually, unless you thing cucumbers are going to dance into baskets
without help. THAT is the point here. Give most teens the choice of working
in a nice air conditioned supermarket, or breaking their backs in a field,
and I'm pretty sure they'll choose the supermarket (or mall, etc).

Lots of IFs, assumptions, emotions and lack of
supporting facts in the above post.

In article C6BYf.84032$g91.42414
@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com,
says...
Jim Yanik wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in
:

JerryL wrote:
...


This is America. English is spoken here. You want to speak your
native language, speak it at home amongst your friends and
relatives.

So are many other languages spoken here. Why do you think only
English
should be spoken here?


Because language is a Major unifying factor.
And English is THE language of business and science.

Religion is a unifying factor, do you also suggest that we should make
religious requirements? How about what sports we like, that is also a
unifying factor, let's outlaw rowing (too English).

Nice debate tactic.... When unable to defend your
point, change the subject. What do religion and sports
have to do with immigrants that fail to communicate in
English.

Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
"Joseph Meehan" wrote:

Kurt Ullman wrote:
Funny, that has never happened to me. I have never consider
it a problem when I have been in countries where I did not
understand the local language. I have always managed to get by.
You trying to live in these areas or did you try to get by in
the hotels and tourist sections? BIG difference.

No I got by in the public markets, non-tourist areas. There has
always been ways to communicate, lots of mixed language and pointing
usually gets the job done. More often than not someone around can
translate.

But you did not try to get a job, especially a good paying one. Try
to go to school to learn things. In otherwords, you weren't living
there. BIG difference, yet again.

That is a good reason for someone to personally decide to learn English.
I just don't see how that would be a reason for someone else to get bent out
of shape because some had not yet learned English or had decided not to. It
should be a personal choice.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Moisés Nacio wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote

Not true. I earned my citizenship with no language requirement.

It might not have been true, back in the day. But, it is true in this
day and age.

http://uscis.gov/graphics/services/natz/index.htm

It is still true. How well do you understand the various ways you may
gain citizenship?

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit