i'm turning green maple and cherry into bowls and using a faceplate with
waste wood/glue/paper/glue/bowl blank.
i've been told not to use soft waste wood because it won't hold as well.
fact or fiction?
rich

--

atv rider polaris 500
glass creations
drz400s
wood carver
spode

"res055a5" wrote in message
news:rtgDd.26152$rL3.3824@trnddc03...
i'm turning green maple and cherry into bowls and using a faceplate with
waste wood/glue/paper/glue/bowl blank.
i've been told not to use soft waste wood because it won't hold as well.
fact or fiction?
rich

--

atv rider polaris 500
glass creations
drz400s
wood carver
spode



It definitely won't hold as well as hardwood; the screw threads are where
most trouble occurs IMO. However, where you are using the glue/paper trick
on wet wood the weak link may not be the soft wood if you use good size
screws and as many as you can.
Billh

Softwood and ring-porous hardwoods will split along annual rings more easily
than diffuse-porous hardwoods. True poplars, soft maple are great choices.

"res055a5" wrote in message
news:rtgDd.26152$rL3.3824@trnddc03...
i'm turning green maple and cherry into bowls and using a faceplate with
waste wood/glue/paper/glue/bowl blank.
i've been told not to use soft waste wood because it won't hold as well.
fact or fiction?
rich

I've even used three/quarter inch plywood, plus good screws and lots of them
are suggested. To add suspenders to that "belt" you might consider gluing it
also!

Leif
"res055a5" wrote in message
news:rtgDd.26152$rL3.3824@trnddc03...
i'm turning green maple and cherry into bowls and using a faceplate with
waste wood/glue/paper/glue/bowl blank.
i've been told not to use soft waste wood because it won't hold as well.
fact or fiction?
rich

--

atv rider polaris 500
glass creations
drz400s
wood carver
spode

I've even used three/quarter inch plywood, plus good screws and lots of them
are suggested. To add suspenders to that "belt" you might consider gluing it
also!

Leif
"res055a5" wrote in message
news:rtgDd.26152$rL3.3824@trnddc03...
i'm turning green maple and cherry into bowls and using a faceplate with
waste wood/glue/paper/glue/bowl blank.
i've been told not to use soft waste wood because it won't hold as well.
fact or fiction?
rich

--

atv rider polaris 500
glass creations
drz400s
wood carver
spode

On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 19:39:03 GMT, "res055a5" wrote:

i'm turning green maple and cherry into bowls and using a faceplate with
waste wood/glue/paper/glue/bowl blank.
i've been told not to use soft waste wood because it won't hold as well.
fact or fiction?

I _have_ had tulip poplar waste wood break, but this is the softest
wood I've ever used as waste wood. Right now I've got a hunk of
purpleheart on there as waste wood. That one seems to work pretty
well. : )


--
Chuck *#:^)
chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply.


September 11, 2001 - Never Forget

On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 19:39:03 GMT, "res055a5" wrote:

i'm turning green maple and cherry into bowls and using a faceplate with
waste wood/glue/paper/glue/bowl blank.
i've been told not to use soft waste wood because it won't hold as well.
fact or fiction?
rich

I'm FAR from an expert, and I'm sure others here will tell me why it's
wrong.. *g*

I use soft pine, an inch larger than the faceplate diameter, so I can
cut it along with whatever is glued to the other side of the paper..
(I'm cheap, so when they say "paper or plastic, I ask for paper once
in a while)

I bolt the pine to the faceplate using countersunk 1/4 bolts with lock
washers and nuts behind the faceplate..
I cut the rounds oversize with a jig saw, drill & bolt 'em, then turn
them round and glue the paper over it..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Mac there is no wrong way or right way if it works for you

But I use good wood screws, in my face plate, if my screws don't strip
out then I'm not afraid that the wood will come off, now the glue joint
is another question, and I rarely use glued on bowl blanks, I normally
cut the outside form then use the stronghold chuck to hold it and hollow
the inside.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo


mac davis wrote:
On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 19:39:03 GMT, "res055a5" wrote:


i'm turning green maple and cherry into bowls and using a faceplate with
waste wood/glue/paper/glue/bowl blank.
i've been told not to use soft waste wood because it won't hold as well.
fact or fiction?
rich


I'm FAR from an expert, and I'm sure others here will tell me why it's
wrong.. *g*

I use soft pine, an inch larger than the faceplate diameter, so I can
cut it along with whatever is glued to the other side of the paper..
(I'm cheap, so when they say "paper or plastic, I ask for paper once
in a while)

I bolt the pine to the faceplate using countersunk 1/4 bolts with lock
washers and nuts behind the faceplate..
I cut the rounds oversize with a jig saw, drill & bolt 'em, then turn
them round and glue the paper over it..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 02:06:40 -0500, Leo Van Der Loo
wrote:



Mac there is no wrong way or right way if it works for you

But I use good wood screws, in my face plate, if my screws don't strip
out then I'm not afraid that the wood will come off, now the glue joint
is another question, and I rarely use glued on bowl blanks, I normally
cut the outside form then use the stronghold chuck to hold it and hollow
the inside.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo


ok Leo.. here's an area I'm having trouble with...

I'm trying to get away from faceplate turning, to avoid the wasted
wood.. (hoping to get into some more exotic wood than firewood)

I've been experimenting with roughing out the bowls between centers
and leaving them with either a base or tenon for the chuck, so I can
do the rest of the turning with the Talon..

My problem is that whether I use a tenon or a base, the bowl won't
true on the chuck.... a neighbor that works in a machine shop thinks
that the base or tenon might not be true with the face of the bowl and
that if it isn't, the bowl won't true out no matter how much you carve
away at it...

Logic tells me that if something is true when between centers, it
should be true when chucked, but I must be missing something here...
H E L P ! !


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"mac davis" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 02:06:40 -0500, Leo Van Der Loo
wrote:



Mac there is no wrong way or right way if it works for you

But I use good wood screws, in my face plate, if my screws don't strip
out then I'm not afraid that the wood will come off, now the glue joint
is another question, and I rarely use glued on bowl blanks, I normally
cut the outside form then use the stronghold chuck to hold it and hollow
the inside.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo


ok Leo.. here's an area I'm having trouble with...

I'm trying to get away from faceplate turning, to avoid the wasted
wood.. (hoping to get into some more exotic wood than firewood)

I've been experimenting with roughing out the bowls between centers
and leaving them with either a base or tenon for the chuck, so I can
do the rest of the turning with the Talon..

My problem is that whether I use a tenon or a base, the bowl won't
true on the chuck.... a neighbor that works in a machine shop thinks
that the base or tenon might not be true with the face of the bowl and
that if it isn't, the bowl won't true out no matter how much you carve
away at it...

Logic tells me that if something is true when between centers, it
should be true when chucked, but I must be missing something here...
H E L P ! !


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Mac,
Does the chuck run true when it is mounted on the spindle?

When you first chuck the bowl it should be fairly true but perhaps not
perfect. This is not a big deal since all you have to do is a light cut on
the outer surface of the bowl to get it true with the chucking. Don't worry
if the top of the bowl is not necessarily perpendicular to the bed of the
lathe since that will be quickly trued up as you continue shaping and
hollowing the bowl.
When you chuck the bowl in your talon make sure the front face of the jaws
butts against the bottom of the bowl where it meets the tenon. The bottom of
the tenon does not rest against the bottom of the jaws where they fasten to
the chuck body. I always make sure I have a small flat surface about 1/4"
wide where the tenon and the bottom of the bowl meets to provide good
registration with the jaws.

billh

Right now I've got a hunk of
purpleheart on there as waste wood. That one seems to work pretty
well. : )
and you use ebony sticks as kindling in your fireplace?

rich

I like to use hard wood for a glue bock and then hot glue to hold on the
blank.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

When I rough turn I make a tenon at the base of the green wood blanks
The problem is once the blanks is dry the tenon becomes oval. I have not
yet found an ideal way to true the tenon before placing it in the chuck for
finishing.

"mac davis" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 02:06:40 -0500, Leo Van Der Loo
wrote:



Mac there is no wrong way or right way if it works for you

But I use good wood screws, in my face plate, if my screws don't strip
out then I'm not afraid that the wood will come off, now the glue joint
is another question, and I rarely use glued on bowl blanks, I normally
cut the outside form then use the stronghold chuck to hold it and hollow
the inside.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo


ok Leo.. here's an area I'm having trouble with...

I'm trying to get away from faceplate turning, to avoid the wasted
wood.. (hoping to get into some more exotic wood than firewood)

I've been experimenting with roughing out the bowls between centers
and leaving them with either a base or tenon for the chuck, so I can
do the rest of the turning with the Talon..

My problem is that whether I use a tenon or a base, the bowl won't
true on the chuck.... a neighbor that works in a machine shop thinks
that the base or tenon might not be true with the face of the bowl and
that if it isn't, the bowl won't true out no matter how much you carve
away at it...

Logic tells me that if something is true when between centers, it
should be true when chucked, but I must be missing something here...
H E L P ! !


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

When I rough turn I make a tenon at the base of the green wood blanks
The problem is once the blanks is dry the tenon becomes oval. I have not
yet found an ideal way to true the tenon before placing it in the chuck
for
finishing.

Dennis,

Get a copy of Bill Grumbine's video on turning bowls. He addresses and
demonstrates a very simple solution to that problem. Bill's address is:
http://www.enter.net/~ultradad/ The disk or tape is well worth the cost.

"Denis Marier" wrote in message
...
When I rough turn I make a tenon at the base of the green wood blanks
The problem is once the blanks is dry the tenon becomes oval. I have not
yet found an ideal way to true the tenon before placing it in the chuck
for
finishing.


I sure like the pin chuck/jaws method. Puts it right back between centers
once it's dry. Though if you make centers before you set it aside to dry,
they'll be pretty close to where they were when time comes to reset, even if
you're using a cone or such. Don't think you have to do the entire turn
from a single mount, and all kinds of methods will suggest themselves.

Take a look at spindle turning a bowl
http://personalpages.tds.net/~upgeorge/index.html

Hi Mac

Yes I know what you are talking about, the way I deal with it is like
this, I make sure that the face around the tenon or inside the recess,
is flat and clean and square, (I use a sharp scraper for that, NO
sanding) then place the work piece on the chuck and pushing in the
center ( in line with the spindle ) while tightening the chuck, I do NOT
squeeze the living daylight out of the wood, ( wood will distort
differed depending the grain of the wood )(face grain end grain knot
etc. ) now I will give the wood a quick spin, with my tool rest close so
I am able to see how much if any, the work piece is running out, if its
out more than I like, I will find the place where the side of the piece
is farthest away from my tool rest, that is the side where it is not
seated properly against the chuck jaws, I will use whatever is handy but
use mostly a mallet to get it to seat better if loosening and
retightening at a different place does not help, now I will check if the
piece is seated better (I usually have to mark the wood so I know if
things do improve or if I need to use more persuasion and also look if
the wood has changed shape because of drying, 2 equal high and low spots
is than the best I can do, and yes I do keep in mind that there is
always some flexing going on in the whole setup, like give in the wood,
chuck and shaft and bearings, machining tolerances can ad up, but
normally speaking I can get the wood to run very close to perfect, like
maybe 10 to 20 thou. out, certainly less than 1/16"
One more thing I make sure that the tenon is not so long that it bottoms
out, or the recess is to deep.
Hope this is some help, if you like some clarification ( It's clear to
me Big G) just ask, I will try to ad to or improve my answer.

Have fun and take your time and care
Leo Van Der Loo

mac davis wrote:

ok Leo.. here's an area I'm having trouble with...

I'm trying to get away from faceplate turning, to avoid the wasted
wood.. (hoping to get into some more exotic wood than firewood)

I've been experimenting with roughing out the bowls between centers
and leaving them with either a base or tenon for the chuck, so I can
do the rest of the turning with the Talon..

My problem is that whether I use a tenon or a base, the bowl won't
true on the chuck.... a neighbor that works in a machine shop thinks
that the base or tenon might not be true with the face of the bowl and
that if it isn't, the bowl won't true out no matter how much you carve
away at it...

Logic tells me that if something is true when between centers, it
should be true when chucked, but I must be missing something here...
H E L P ! !


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Thanks George, Its a very site.
Looks very effective that pin chuck.
"George" george@least wrote in message
...
"Denis Marier" wrote in message
...
When I rough turn I make a tenon at the base of the green wood blanks
The problem is once the blanks is dry the tenon becomes oval. I have
not
yet found an ideal way to true the tenon before placing it in the chuck
for
finishing.


I sure like the pin chuck/jaws method. Puts it right back between centers
once it's dry. Though if you make centers before you set it aside to dry,
they'll be pretty close to where they were when time comes to reset, even
if
you're using a cone or such. Don't think you have to do the entire turn
from a single mount, and all kinds of methods will suggest themselves.

Take a look at spindle turning a bowl
http://personalpages.tds.net/~upgeorge/index.html

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 17:42:39 GMT, "res055a5" wrote:

Right now I've got a hunk of
purpleheart on there as waste wood. That one seems to work pretty
well. : )
and you use ebony sticks as kindling in your fireplace?

Nah, snakewood, the ebony smokes too much.


--
Chuck *#:^)
chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply.


September 11, 2001 - Never Forget

On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 11:22:32 -0500, "billh"
wrote:


ok Leo.. here's an area I'm having trouble with...

I'm trying to get away from faceplate turning, to avoid the wasted
wood.. (hoping to get into some more exotic wood than firewood)

I've been experimenting with roughing out the bowls between centers
and leaving them with either a base or tenon for the chuck, so I can
do the rest of the turning with the Talon..

My problem is that whether I use a tenon or a base, the bowl won't
true on the chuck.... a neighbor that works in a machine shop thinks
that the base or tenon might not be true with the face of the bowl and
that if it isn't, the bowl won't true out no matter how much you carve
away at it...

Logic tells me that if something is true when between centers, it
should be true when chucked, but I must be missing something here...
H E L P ! !


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Mac,
Does the chuck run true when it is mounted on the spindle?

When you first chuck the bowl it should be fairly true but perhaps not
perfect. This is not a big deal since all you have to do is a light cut on
the outer surface of the bowl to get it true with the chucking. Don't worry
if the top of the bowl is not necessarily perpendicular to the bed of the
lathe since that will be quickly trued up as you continue shaping and
hollowing the bowl.
When you chuck the bowl in your talon make sure the front face of the jaws
butts against the bottom of the bowl where it meets the tenon. The bottom of
the tenon does not rest against the bottom of the jaws where they fasten to
the chuck body. I always make sure I have a small flat surface about 1/4"
wide where the tenon and the bottom of the bowl meets to provide good
registration with the jaws.

billh

thanks, bill... you da man!....

at first the talon wasn't running true... I removed and replaced the
adapter, (following instructions this time), and it seemed to true
right up...

I put a 3/4 inch dowel in it that I knew was warped, and turned it to
almost no vibration, so I'm assuming that it's running true now??

I'm beginning to think it's operator error, but can't find what I'm
doing wrong... I roughed a sample bowl tonight between centers and it
seemed pretty stable/true...
I cut a 3/8" deep tenon in it, chucked it up, and it wobbled like
crazy... tried with jaws all against bottom, with space between jaws
and bottom, etc, etc... still wobbled both "front to back" and out of
round...

since it was a tent, I spent over an hour making light cuts and trying
to true it up.. the result was a lot smaller bowl with less wobble,
but still not true...

I've only had the Jet since late December, but the that I've turned on
the faceplate seem true, and if I put the spur center and live canter
in, I can push the tailstock to until the 2 points meet exactly...

I had "assumed" that anything that could be chucked could be trued,
but maybe I'm putting way too much faith in the chuck?

BTW: I used the Talon on the Shopsmith for 2 weeks before I got the
Jet, and it seemed fine...


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 20:51:14 GMT, "Denis Marier"
wrote:

Dennis.. I just make a ring collar chuck, from directions from Ken
Vaughn's site...
http://home.earthlink.net/~kvaughn65...ing_collar.jpg

If your blank has a flat face and roughly round bottom, this works
great to work on the bottom of the blank, and also to finish the
bottom later..

When I rough turn I make a tenon at the base of the green wood blanks
The problem is once the blanks is dry the tenon becomes oval. I have not
yet found an ideal way to true the tenon before placing it in the chuck for
finishing.

"mac davis" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 02:06:40 -0500, Leo Van Der Loo
wrote:



Mac there is no wrong way or right way if it works for you

But I use good wood screws, in my face plate, if my screws don't strip
out then I'm not afraid that the wood will come off, now the glue joint
is another question, and I rarely use glued on bowl blanks, I normally
cut the outside form then use the stronghold chuck to hold it and hollow
the inside.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo


ok Leo.. here's an area I'm having trouble with...

I'm trying to get away from faceplate turning, to avoid the wasted
wood.. (hoping to get into some more exotic wood than firewood)

I've been experimenting with roughing out the bowls between centers
and leaving them with either a base or tenon for the chuck, so I can
do the rest of the turning with the Talon..

My problem is that whether I use a tenon or a base, the bowl won't
true on the chuck.... a neighbor that works in a machine shop thinks
that the base or tenon might not be true with the face of the bowl and
that if it isn't, the bowl won't true out no matter how much you carve
away at it...

Logic tells me that if something is true when between centers, it
should be true when chucked, but I must be missing something here...
H E L P ! !


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing




mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 17:58:39 -0500, Leo Van Der Loo
wrote:

thanks, leo.. I haven't tried beating the **** out of it yet, but i
like the idea..*g*

Seriously, it might be just the adjustment that I need, but with the
rubber mallet, not the BFH...

OH.. by tenon, are you referring to a stub that you tighten the jaws
on, or a "round groove" that you grip by expanding the jaws?
I've been interpreting a tenon as an "innie" and a base as an
"outtie", but I've noticed that some folks say tenon to mean either
one..

Hi Mac

Yes I know what you are talking about, the way I deal with it is like
this, I make sure that the face around the tenon or inside the recess,
is flat and clean and square, (I use a sharp scraper for that, NO
sanding) then place the work piece on the chuck and pushing in the
center ( in line with the spindle ) while tightening the chuck, I do NOT
squeeze the living daylight out of the wood, ( wood will distort
differed depending the grain of the wood )(face grain end grain knot
etc. ) now I will give the wood a quick spin, with my tool rest close so
I am able to see how much if any, the work piece is running out, if its
out more than I like, I will find the place where the side of the piece
is farthest away from my tool rest, that is the side where it is not
seated properly against the chuck jaws, I will use whatever is handy but
use mostly a mallet to get it to seat better if loosening and
retightening at a different place does not help, now I will check if the
piece is seated better (I usually have to mark the wood so I know if
things do improve or if I need to use more persuasion and also look if
the wood has changed shape because of drying, 2 equal high and low spots
is than the best I can do, and yes I do keep in mind that there is
always some flexing going on in the whole setup, like give in the wood,
chuck and shaft and bearings, machining tolerances can ad up, but
normally speaking I can get the wood to run very close to perfect, like
maybe 10 to 20 thou. out, certainly less than 1/16"
One more thing I make sure that the tenon is not so long that it bottoms
out, or the recess is to deep.
Hope this is some help, if you like some clarification ( It's clear to
me Big G) just ask, I will try to ad to or improve my answer.

Have fun and take your time and care
Leo Van Der Loo

mac davis wrote:

ok Leo.. here's an area I'm having trouble with...

I'm trying to get away from faceplate turning, to avoid the wasted
wood.. (hoping to get into some more exotic wood than firewood)

I've been experimenting with roughing out the bowls between centers
and leaving them with either a base or tenon for the chuck, so I can
do the rest of the turning with the Talon..

My problem is that whether I use a tenon or a base, the bowl won't
true on the chuck.... a neighbor that works in a machine shop thinks
that the base or tenon might not be true with the face of the bowl and
that if it isn't, the bowl won't true out no matter how much you carve
away at it...

Logic tells me that if something is true when between centers, it
should be true when chucked, but I must be missing something here...
H E L P ! !


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Hi Mac

Since my native language is Dutch, I have to try to make sure that I use
the right words and so I checked the dictionary, it says
"tenon, projection shaped to fit into a mortise".
So yes a stub that's sticking out and the recess is of course an "Innie"
as you say, and yes some may not know what they are talking about G.
You know its hard enough already so it helps if we do not get all mixed
up and call a spade a spade and an "outy a stub and an innie a recess"
Very big G

have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

http://homepage.mac.com/l.vanderloo/PhotoAlbum.4html


mac davis wrote:

OH.. by tenon, are you referring to a stub that you tighten the jaws
on, or a "round groove" that you grip by expanding the jaws?
I've been interpreting a tenon as an "innie" and a base as an
"outtie", but I've noticed that some folks say tenon to mean either
one..

"mac davis" wrote in message
...
My problem is that whether I use a tenon or a base, the bowl won't
true on the chuck.... a neighbor that works in a machine shop thinks
that the base or tenon might not be true with the face of the bowl and
that if it isn't, the bowl won't true out no matter how much you carve
away at it...

Logic tells me that if something is true when between centers, it
should be true when chucked, but I must be missing something here...

I had "assumed" that anything that could be chucked could be trued,
but maybe I'm putting way too much faith in the chuck?

BTW: I used the Talon on the Shopsmith for 2 weeks before I got the
Jet, and it seemed fine...

What jaws are you using? If you're using the serrated type
http://www.oneway.on.ca/chucks/talon.htm you're going to have to expend
extra effort in reverse chucking. These distort the wood as you tighten
them, especially if you _tighten_ them, like the "Key Features" section
implies with its "power clamping" bullet.

What keeps the thing true is the part you jam up against the flat you made
in the base, so you want to have that tight up against the chuck before you
begin to secure it. Make sure you've got a good center mark, snug the
tailstock up into the center, and then tighten the chuck. Still won't
always be perfect, because the design is such that it can't hold a wooden
circle without distortion, exacerbated by the symmetrical serrations, but it
will be as good as it gets.

Better is the dovetail hold, where smooth jaws can be secured outside or
inside a smooth circular section, then wedged against the flat section
outside the tenon or inside the recess as they are expanded/contracted. It
can hold a circle without distorting it. Just make sure that you cut a
slightly steeper angle than the steel so the wedging action engages before
the "grip."

So the critical factor in all is the flat surface formed by the nose of the
closed jaws, which should still be flat as the chuck opens. If not that,
never will run true save by accident when you reverse. If you've got the
jaws in the picture, I suggest you use them for single mount turnings, and
hope that you don't take so long that the piece begins to dry and contract,
because resecuring will always be a crapshoot.

On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 09:17:51 -0500, "George" george@least wrote:

snip

What jaws are you using? If you're using the serrated type
http://www.oneway.on.ca/chucks/talon.htm you're going to have to expend
extra effort in reverse chucking. These distort the wood as you tighten
them, especially if you _tighten_ them, like the "Key Features" section
implies with its "power clamping" bullet.

What keeps the thing true is the part you jam up against the flat you made
in the base, so you want to have that tight up against the chuck before you
begin to secure it. Make sure you've got a good center mark, snug the
tailstock up into the center, and then tighten the chuck. Still won't
always be perfect, because the design is such that it can't hold a wooden
circle without distortion, exacerbated by the symmetrical serrations, but it
will be as good as it gets.

Better is the dovetail hold, where smooth jaws can be secured outside or
inside a smooth circular section, then wedged against the flat section
outside the tenon or inside the recess as they are expanded/contracted. It
can hold a circle without distorting it. Just make sure that you cut a
slightly steeper angle than the steel so the wedging action engages before
the "grip."

So the critical factor in all is the flat surface formed by the nose of the
closed jaws, which should still be flat as the chuck opens. If not that,
never will run true save by accident when you reverse. If you've got the
jaws in the picture, I suggest you use them for single mount turnings, and
hope that you don't take so long that the piece begins to dry and contract,
because resecuring will always be a crapshoot.

George... right now I have the spigot jaws attached.. I was going to
get the #1 jaws, but I had a great recommendation from Jim Pugh to get
the spigot instead..
http://www.oneway.on.ca/chucks/acces...pigot_jaws.htm

SO, it sounds like I missed one thing when checking the chuck.. even
though it appears to be running true, I'm basing it on what I'd call
in/out of round, but not "wobble" factor..
I'll check the flatness/alignment of the jaws this morning.. THANKS!

(I have no patience, so I turn the whole thing in one or 2 nights, so
no warping so far)


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 02:41:53 -0500, Leo Van Der Loo
wrote:

Leo.. it took me weeks to figure out what "CA" meant...
I knew they weren't filling cracks with California, but had no idea
that they meant super glue.. lol

BTW, I finally looked at your web site last night... you owe me about
3 hours sleep now.. *g*
Great site with lots of info and things to stir the creative juices!

Hi Mac

Since my native language is Dutch, I have to try to make sure that I use
the right words and so I checked the dictionary, it says
"tenon, projection shaped to fit into a mortise".
So yes a stub that's sticking out and the recess is of course an "Innie"
as you say, and yes some may not know what they are talking about G.
You know its hard enough already so it helps if we do not get all mixed
up and call a spade a spade and an "outy a stub and an innie a recess"
Very big G

have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

http://homepage.mac.com/l.vanderloo/PhotoAlbum.4html


mac davis wrote:

OH.. by tenon, are you referring to a stub that you tighten the jaws
on, or a "round groove" that you grip by expanding the jaws?
I've been interpreting a tenon as an "innie" and a base as an
"outtie", but I've noticed that some folks say tenon to mean either
one..




mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"mac davis" wrote in message
...
SO, it sounds like I missed one thing when checking the chuck.. even
though it appears to be running true, I'm basing it on what I'd call
in/out of round, but not "wobble" factor..
I'll check the flatness/alignment of the jaws this morning.. THANKS!


Some of the same problems when gripping, as you can see. Can't fit without
distorting the wood, and the symmetry of the serrations makes it a 50/50
proposition if they'll push away from the shoulder or draw toward as the
wood deforms. Great thing about dovetail is it draws only toward.

Push up tight against the front of those things and _then_ begin to tighten.
To confirm good clean faces, just touch the jaws to the tenon while pushing
against the shoulder with the tailstock and confirm you're concentric.

On the up side, you can start bowls easily on these, as I do with my pin
jaws, and they should never fly off the lathe like those spur-centered
starts do. Get some dovetailed jaws like
http://www.oneway.on.ca/chucks/accessories/no2_jaws.htm and your problems
will disappear.

Hi Mac

If you don't know something, ask, there will probably be someone who
knows, I know, some people think it looks stupid if they ask a question
about something everybody else seems to know about, well in my opinion
the only stupid question is the one that is NOT asked.

Now you said they weren't filling cracks with California ? I thought
that's exactly what they where using to fill the Andrea's fault line
crack in CA. G
Thanks for the compliment, I do have to get some more pictures up and
change some data, a lot more of the bowl got sold and old prices seem
out of whack with the present pricing, problem is I rather do the
turning than the pricing and the web side changing.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

mac davis wrote:

Leo.. it took me weeks to figure out what "CA" meant...
I knew they weren't filling cracks with California, but had no idea
that they meant super glue.. lol

"mac davis" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 09:17:51 -0500, "George" george@least wrote:

snip

[snip]
George... right now I have the spigot jaws attached.. I was going to
get the #1 jaws, but I had a great recommendation from Jim Pugh to get
the spigot instead..
http://www.oneway.on.ca/chucks/acces...pigot_jaws.htm

SO, it sounds like I missed one thing when checking the chuck.. even
though it appears to be running true, I'm basing it on what I'd call
in/out of round, but not "wobble" factor..
I'll check the flatness/alignment of the jaws this morning.. THANKS!

(I have no patience, so I turn the whole thing in one or 2 nights, so
no warping so far)


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Mac,
When you close up the jaws in the chuck without anything in them do they
close uniformly and butt against each other fairly tightly?
Do you have a regular set of #2 jaws for the chuck you can try. I have the
#1 spigot jaws for my Stronghold and I don't really like them for holding
bowl tenons. I can't say I've had the grief you seem to be experiencing but
I prefer the regular jaws.
billh

On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 12:53:32 -0500, "George" george@least wrote:


"mac davis" wrote in message
.. .
SO, it sounds like I missed one thing when checking the chuck.. even
though it appears to be running true, I'm basing it on what I'd call
in/out of round, but not "wobble" factor..
I'll check the flatness/alignment of the jaws this morning.. THANKS!


Some of the same problems when gripping, as you can see. Can't fit without
distorting the wood, and the symmetry of the serrations makes it a 50/50
proposition if they'll push away from the shoulder or draw toward as the
wood deforms. Great thing about dovetail is it draws only toward.

Push up tight against the front of those things and _then_ begin to tighten.
To confirm good clean faces, just touch the jaws to the tenon while pushing
against the shoulder with the tailstock and confirm you're concentric.

On the up side, you can start bowls easily on these, as I do with my pin
jaws, and they should never fly off the lathe like those spur-centered
starts do. Get some dovetailed jaws like
http://www.oneway.on.ca/chucks/accessories/no2_jaws.htm and your problems
will disappear.

George.. I do have a set of the jaws shown, the chuck came with the
2's.. (see my reply to Bill, below)



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 00:36:14 -0500, "billh"
wrote:


"mac davis" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 09:17:51 -0500, "George" george@least wrote:

snip

[snip]
George... right now I have the spigot jaws attached.. I was going to
get the #1 jaws, but I had a great recommendation from Jim Pugh to get
the spigot instead..
http://www.oneway.on.ca/chucks/acces...pigot_jaws.htm

SO, it sounds like I missed one thing when checking the chuck.. even
though it appears to be running true, I'm basing it on what I'd call
in/out of round, but not "wobble" factor..
I'll check the flatness/alignment of the jaws this morning.. THANKS!

(I have no patience, so I turn the whole thing in one or 2 nights, so
no warping so far)


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Mac,
When you close up the jaws in the chuck without anything in them do they
close uniformly and butt against each other fairly tightly?
Do you have a regular set of #2 jaws for the chuck you can try. I have the
#1 spigot jaws for my Stronghold and I don't really like them for holding
bowl tenons. I can't say I've had the grief you seem to be experiencing but
I prefer the regular jaws.
billh


Bill.. at George's suggestion, I checked the spigot jaws and when
closed, one jaw is very, very slightly further forward than the other
3..
I took them off, cleaned the inner jaws, etc., and put them back on,
making sure that only the jaw with the pin was in the same position as
before.. still didn't seem even, so I took them off for now..

Went back to the #2 jaws that came with the chuck, and they seem, if
not exactly flush at the ends while closed, closer than the spigot
jaws were..

I've checked everything on the chuck and can't see what would make one
outer jaw stick out more than another, so I'm thinking that I might
need to true the ends of the other jaws with emory cloth or
something..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 20:36:48 -0500, Leo Van Der Loo
wrote:

Hi Mac

If you don't know something, ask, there will probably be someone who
knows, I know, some people think it looks stupid if they ask a question
about something everybody else seems to know about, well in my opinion
the only stupid question is the one that is NOT asked.

Now you said they weren't filling cracks with California ? I thought
that's exactly what they where using to fill the Andrea's fault line
crack in CA. G
Thanks for the compliment, I do have to get some more pictures up and
change some data, a lot more of the bowl got sold and old prices seem
out of whack with the present pricing, problem is I rather do the
turning than the pricing and the web side changing.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

That's exactly my problem, Leo... I'd rather be turning than the web
pages..
Since I have to do web pages to pay the bills, it's a real fight for
priorities.. *lol*

I'm finding myself out on the lathe instead of the computer more and
more lately during "business hours".. good thing I work at home!


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

[snip]

Mac,
When you close up the jaws in the chuck without anything in them do they
close uniformly and butt against each other fairly tightly?
Do you have a regular set of #2 jaws for the chuck you can try. I have the
#1 spigot jaws for my Stronghold and I don't really like them for holding
bowl tenons. I can't say I've had the grief you seem to be experiencing
but
I prefer the regular jaws.
billh


Bill.. at George's suggestion, I checked the spigot jaws and when
closed, one jaw is very, very slightly further forward than the other
3..
I took them off, cleaned the inner jaws, etc., and put them back on,
making sure that only the jaw with the pin was in the same position as
before.. still didn't seem even, so I took them off for now..

Went back to the #2 jaws that came with the chuck, and they seem, if
not exactly flush at the ends while closed, closer than the spigot
jaws were..

I've checked everything on the chuck and can't see what would make one
outer jaw stick out more than another, so I'm thinking that I might
need to true the ends of the other jaws with emory cloth or
something..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Mac,
My Stronghold spigot jaws are dead flat across the tops (by eyeballing when
closed). You don't say how much they are out. Do you have a instrument
capable of accurately measuring them the variation in height?
You might want to give Oneway a call but I would try to get a measurement
first since they will probably want that info. I understand they are very
helpful with any concerns about their products.
Have you measured how true the chuck body runs on the lathe? A dial
indicator is great for this.
billh

On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 13:38:20 -0500, "billh"
wrote:


Mac,
My Stronghold spigot jaws are dead flat across the tops (by eyeballing when
closed). You don't say how much they are out. Do you have a instrument
capable of accurately measuring them the variation in height?
You might want to give Oneway a call but I would try to get a measurement
first since they will probably want that info. I understand they are very
helpful with any concerns about their products.
Have you measured how true the chuck body runs on the lathe? A dial
indicator is great for this.
billh


Bill.. I'll have to dig out the dial gauge, I haven't measured, just
"eyeballed" and felt...

With the #2 jaws, you can run your finger over the jaws when closed
(lathe not running!!) and feel the joints between the jaws but not any
"height" difference between the jaws..

With the spigot jaws, you can see the higher/longer/whatever jaw buy
eye and feel it enough that if you han your finger nail across the
surface of the closed jaws, the high one would stop your nail..

The really strange part is that if I put any of the 3 jaws there,
(pinned one has to stay in place) the jaw in that position is high...
but none of the #2 jaws in that position are high...

It would seem that when the Spigot jaw sits there, the inner jaw is
off true, but when a #2 jaw sits in the same place, the inner jaw is
fine.. wouldn't that be impossible?



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

When I rough turn I make a tenon at the base of the green wood blanks
The problem is once the blanks is dry the tenon becomes oval. I have not
yet found an ideal way to true the tenon before placing it in the chuck for
finishing.

I normally do rough outs and leave a tenon as opposed to a dovetail recess. If
you leave the tenon larger than that which gives you "full coverage" with the
chuck jaws, you can jam chuck the dried piece with the oval temon, true up the
tenon and outside and chuk to reverse the inside. A dovetail recess would
also, I expect, be out of round after drying. My guess is that this would be
harder to re-true than a tenon as you don't have the nice convenient depression
from the tailstock left from the roughing operation.

Kip Powers
Rogers, AR

"Kip055" wrote in message
...
When I rough turn I make a tenon at the base of the green wood blanks
The problem is once the blanks is dry the tenon becomes oval. I have not
yet found an ideal way to true the tenon before placing it in the chuck
for
finishing.

I normally do rough outs and leave a tenon as opposed to a dovetail
recess. If
you leave the tenon larger than that which gives you "full coverage" with
the
chuck jaws, you can jam chuck the dried piece with the oval temon, true up
the
tenon and outside and chuk to reverse the inside. A dovetail recess would
also, I expect, be out of round after drying. My guess is that this would
be
harder to re-true than a tenon as you don't have the nice convenient
depression
from the tailstock left from the roughing operation.

That's why you plan ahead, all right. The wood's going to distort the same
regardless of your holding method, so you want to know where both centers
were to reference for re-turning.

My pin jaws/chuck method is quick, easy, and reliable, though you could as
easily leave a modest 1/2" rise in the inside bottom of the bowl, bore a
"shoulder" with that 35mm Forstner you use for cabinetry, then a concentric
smaller bore to use as your centering reference. This works for folks who
core their wood, either by gripping inside, or jamming a mandrel centered in
the small hole, shouldered on the larger.

I suppose if you're one who follows the new belief that bottoms need to be
roughed thinner than the sides, you'd have to use the sides themselves
against the chuck. Just tougher to maintain a good aspect until you're
ready to reverse.

Some points that might help.

1. Make sure jaws are in the right place. Most chucks have both the
jaws and where they attach to the chuck numbered. If you have the #1
jaw segment on the #2 chuck position you got trouble.

2. When attaching jaws - With the chuck slightly open, put on all jaws
but don't tighten the screws, leave them a little loose. Then tighten
the chuck all the way closed. Now snug the screws pretty tightly in
the same way as you would when changing a tire (alternate in/out and
side to side). Finally, open the chuck a little and completely tighten
the screws.

3. Make sure the tennon isn't long enough to bottom out in the chuck
and that you turn a flat on the bowl to mate with the top surface of
the jaws. The tennon doesn't position the bowl, it's there only to
grip. The top surface of the jaws meets the flat on the bowl and
that's what positions the bowl.

4. The chuck should screw down all the way and meet the reference
surface on the spindle. If there is any gap you got trouble. Solve
the problem, if it exists, by getting a spindle washer (not one from
the hardware store) these are ground to have perfectly parallel sides.
Hope this helps.

My problem is that whether I use a tenon or a base, the bowl won't
true on the chuck.

If you are working with unseasoned or partially seasoned stock, the problem may
be that the tenon is "moving" and changing shape. What I do is jam chuck the
bowl to be finish turned, true the tenon and outside, then chuck up and work
the inside. Rarely use a dovetail recess, but expect that a similar strategy
might work.

Hope this helps!. If I'm not making myself clear, please feel free to get back
to me in group or by email

Kip Powers
Rogers, AR

On 23 Jan 2005 16:26:46 GMT, (Kip055) wrote:

My problem is that whether I use a tenon or a base, the bowl won't
true on the chuck.

If you are working with unseasoned or partially seasoned stock, the problem may
be that the tenon is "moving" and changing shape. What I do is jam chuck the
bowl to be finish turned, true the tenon and outside, then chuck up and work
the inside. Rarely use a dovetail recess, but expect that a similar strategy
might work.

Hope this helps!. If I'm not making myself clear, please feel free to get back
to me in group or by email

Kip Powers
Rogers, AR

Kip.. perfectly clear, thanks...
My problem seems to be the spigot jaws, no problem with the #2 jaws...
but some operator error involved, too..

This problem occurred with green or kiln dried wood... and on the
green stuff , the tenon was cut right after turning on center, then
put on the chuck when the tenon was done..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing