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Woodturning (rec.crafts.woodturning) To discuss tools, techniques, styles, materials, shows and competitions, education and educational materials related to woodturning. All skill levels are welcome, from art turners to production turners, beginners to masters. |
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hard or soft waste wood on faceplate?
i'm turning green maple and cherry into bowls and using a faceplate with
waste wood/glue/paper/glue/bowl blank. i've been told not to use soft waste wood because it won't hold as well. fact or fiction? rich -- atv rider polaris 500 glass creations drz400s wood carver spode |
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On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 19:39:03 GMT, "res055a5" wrote:
i'm turning green maple and cherry into bowls and using a faceplate with waste wood/glue/paper/glue/bowl blank. i've been told not to use soft waste wood because it won't hold as well. fact or fiction? I _have_ had tulip poplar waste wood break, but this is the softest wood I've ever used as waste wood. Right now I've got a hunk of purpleheart on there as waste wood. That one seems to work pretty well. : ) -- Chuck *#:^) chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply. September 11, 2001 - Never Forget |
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Right now I've got a hunk of
purpleheart on there as waste wood. That one seems to work pretty well. : ) and you use ebony sticks as kindling in your fireplace? rich |
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On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 17:42:39 GMT, "res055a5" wrote:
Right now I've got a hunk of purpleheart on there as waste wood. That one seems to work pretty well. : ) and you use ebony sticks as kindling in your fireplace? Nah, snakewood, the ebony smokes too much. -- Chuck *#:^) chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply. September 11, 2001 - Never Forget |
#5
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Softwood and ring-porous hardwoods will split along annual rings more easily
than diffuse-porous hardwoods. True poplars, soft maple are great choices. "res055a5" wrote in message news:rtgDd.26152$rL3.3824@trnddc03... i'm turning green maple and cherry into bowls and using a faceplate with waste wood/glue/paper/glue/bowl blank. i've been told not to use soft waste wood because it won't hold as well. fact or fiction? rich |
#6
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"res055a5" wrote in message news:rtgDd.26152$rL3.3824@trnddc03... i'm turning green maple and cherry into bowls and using a faceplate with waste wood/glue/paper/glue/bowl blank. i've been told not to use soft waste wood because it won't hold as well. fact or fiction? rich -- atv rider polaris 500 glass creations drz400s wood carver spode It definitely won't hold as well as hardwood; the screw threads are where most trouble occurs IMO. However, where you are using the glue/paper trick on wet wood the weak link may not be the soft wood if you use good size screws and as many as you can. Billh |
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I've even used three/quarter inch plywood, plus good screws and lots of them
are suggested. To add suspenders to that "belt" you might consider gluing it also! Leif "res055a5" wrote in message news:rtgDd.26152$rL3.3824@trnddc03... i'm turning green maple and cherry into bowls and using a faceplate with waste wood/glue/paper/glue/bowl blank. i've been told not to use soft waste wood because it won't hold as well. fact or fiction? rich -- atv rider polaris 500 glass creations drz400s wood carver spode |
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I've even used three/quarter inch plywood, plus good screws and lots of them
are suggested. To add suspenders to that "belt" you might consider gluing it also! Leif "res055a5" wrote in message news:rtgDd.26152$rL3.3824@trnddc03... i'm turning green maple and cherry into bowls and using a faceplate with waste wood/glue/paper/glue/bowl blank. i've been told not to use soft waste wood because it won't hold as well. fact or fiction? rich -- atv rider polaris 500 glass creations drz400s wood carver spode |
#9
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On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 19:39:03 GMT, "res055a5" wrote:
i'm turning green maple and cherry into bowls and using a faceplate with waste wood/glue/paper/glue/bowl blank. i've been told not to use soft waste wood because it won't hold as well. fact or fiction? rich I'm FAR from an expert, and I'm sure others here will tell me why it's wrong.. *g* I use soft pine, an inch larger than the faceplate diameter, so I can cut it along with whatever is glued to the other side of the paper.. (I'm cheap, so when they say "paper or plastic, I ask for paper once in a while) I bolt the pine to the faceplate using countersunk 1/4 bolts with lock washers and nuts behind the faceplate.. I cut the rounds oversize with a jig saw, drill & bolt 'em, then turn them round and glue the paper over it.. mac Please remove splinters before emailing |
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Mac there is no wrong way or right way if it works for you But I use good wood screws, in my face plate, if my screws don't strip out then I'm not afraid that the wood will come off, now the glue joint is another question, and I rarely use glued on bowl blanks, I normally cut the outside form then use the stronghold chuck to hold it and hollow the inside. Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo mac davis wrote: On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 19:39:03 GMT, "res055a5" wrote: i'm turning green maple and cherry into bowls and using a faceplate with waste wood/glue/paper/glue/bowl blank. i've been told not to use soft waste wood because it won't hold as well. fact or fiction? rich I'm FAR from an expert, and I'm sure others here will tell me why it's wrong.. *g* I use soft pine, an inch larger than the faceplate diameter, so I can cut it along with whatever is glued to the other side of the paper.. (I'm cheap, so when they say "paper or plastic, I ask for paper once in a while) I bolt the pine to the faceplate using countersunk 1/4 bolts with lock washers and nuts behind the faceplate.. I cut the rounds oversize with a jig saw, drill & bolt 'em, then turn them round and glue the paper over it.. mac Please remove splinters before emailing |
#11
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On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 02:06:40 -0500, Leo Van Der Loo
wrote: Mac there is no wrong way or right way if it works for you But I use good wood screws, in my face plate, if my screws don't strip out then I'm not afraid that the wood will come off, now the glue joint is another question, and I rarely use glued on bowl blanks, I normally cut the outside form then use the stronghold chuck to hold it and hollow the inside. Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo ok Leo.. here's an area I'm having trouble with... I'm trying to get away from faceplate turning, to avoid the wasted wood.. (hoping to get into some more exotic wood than firewood) I've been experimenting with roughing out the bowls between centers and leaving them with either a base or tenon for the chuck, so I can do the rest of the turning with the Talon.. My problem is that whether I use a tenon or a base, the bowl won't true on the chuck.... a neighbor that works in a machine shop thinks that the base or tenon might not be true with the face of the bowl and that if it isn't, the bowl won't true out no matter how much you carve away at it... Logic tells me that if something is true when between centers, it should be true when chucked, but I must be missing something here... H E L P ! ! mac Please remove splinters before emailing |
#12
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"mac davis" wrote in message ... On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 02:06:40 -0500, Leo Van Der Loo wrote: Mac there is no wrong way or right way if it works for you But I use good wood screws, in my face plate, if my screws don't strip out then I'm not afraid that the wood will come off, now the glue joint is another question, and I rarely use glued on bowl blanks, I normally cut the outside form then use the stronghold chuck to hold it and hollow the inside. Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo ok Leo.. here's an area I'm having trouble with... I'm trying to get away from faceplate turning, to avoid the wasted wood.. (hoping to get into some more exotic wood than firewood) I've been experimenting with roughing out the bowls between centers and leaving them with either a base or tenon for the chuck, so I can do the rest of the turning with the Talon.. My problem is that whether I use a tenon or a base, the bowl won't true on the chuck.... a neighbor that works in a machine shop thinks that the base or tenon might not be true with the face of the bowl and that if it isn't, the bowl won't true out no matter how much you carve away at it... Logic tells me that if something is true when between centers, it should be true when chucked, but I must be missing something here... H E L P ! ! mac Please remove splinters before emailing Mac, Does the chuck run true when it is mounted on the spindle? When you first chuck the bowl it should be fairly true but perhaps not perfect. This is not a big deal since all you have to do is a light cut on the outer surface of the bowl to get it true with the chucking. Don't worry if the top of the bowl is not necessarily perpendicular to the bed of the lathe since that will be quickly trued up as you continue shaping and hollowing the bowl. When you chuck the bowl in your talon make sure the front face of the jaws butts against the bottom of the bowl where it meets the tenon. The bottom of the tenon does not rest against the bottom of the jaws where they fasten to the chuck body. I always make sure I have a small flat surface about 1/4" wide where the tenon and the bottom of the bowl meets to provide good registration with the jaws. billh |
#13
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I like to use hard wood for a glue bock and then hot glue to hold on the
blank. -- God bless and safe turning Darrell Feltmate Truro, NS Canada www.aroundthewoods.com |
#14
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On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 11:22:32 -0500, "billh"
wrote: ok Leo.. here's an area I'm having trouble with... I'm trying to get away from faceplate turning, to avoid the wasted wood.. (hoping to get into some more exotic wood than firewood) I've been experimenting with roughing out the bowls between centers and leaving them with either a base or tenon for the chuck, so I can do the rest of the turning with the Talon.. My problem is that whether I use a tenon or a base, the bowl won't true on the chuck.... a neighbor that works in a machine shop thinks that the base or tenon might not be true with the face of the bowl and that if it isn't, the bowl won't true out no matter how much you carve away at it... Logic tells me that if something is true when between centers, it should be true when chucked, but I must be missing something here... H E L P ! ! mac Please remove splinters before emailing Mac, Does the chuck run true when it is mounted on the spindle? When you first chuck the bowl it should be fairly true but perhaps not perfect. This is not a big deal since all you have to do is a light cut on the outer surface of the bowl to get it true with the chucking. Don't worry if the top of the bowl is not necessarily perpendicular to the bed of the lathe since that will be quickly trued up as you continue shaping and hollowing the bowl. When you chuck the bowl in your talon make sure the front face of the jaws butts against the bottom of the bowl where it meets the tenon. The bottom of the tenon does not rest against the bottom of the jaws where they fasten to the chuck body. I always make sure I have a small flat surface about 1/4" wide where the tenon and the bottom of the bowl meets to provide good registration with the jaws. billh thanks, bill... you da man!.... at first the talon wasn't running true... I removed and replaced the adapter, (following instructions this time), and it seemed to true right up... I put a 3/4 inch dowel in it that I knew was warped, and turned it to almost no vibration, so I'm assuming that it's running true now?? I'm beginning to think it's operator error, but can't find what I'm doing wrong... I roughed a sample bowl tonight between centers and it seemed pretty stable/true... I cut a 3/8" deep tenon in it, chucked it up, and it wobbled like crazy... tried with jaws all against bottom, with space between jaws and bottom, etc, etc... still wobbled both "front to back" and out of round... since it was a tent, I spent over an hour making light cuts and trying to true it up.. the result was a lot smaller bowl with less wobble, but still not true... I've only had the Jet since late December, but the that I've turned on the faceplate seem true, and if I put the spur center and live canter in, I can push the tailstock to until the 2 points meet exactly... I had "assumed" that anything that could be chucked could be trued, but maybe I'm putting way too much faith in the chuck? BTW: I used the Talon on the Shopsmith for 2 weeks before I got the Jet, and it seemed fine... mac Please remove splinters before emailing |
#15
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When I rough turn I make a tenon at the base of the green wood blanks
The problem is once the blanks is dry the tenon becomes oval. I have not yet found an ideal way to true the tenon before placing it in the chuck for finishing. "mac davis" wrote in message ... On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 02:06:40 -0500, Leo Van Der Loo wrote: Mac there is no wrong way or right way if it works for you But I use good wood screws, in my face plate, if my screws don't strip out then I'm not afraid that the wood will come off, now the glue joint is another question, and I rarely use glued on bowl blanks, I normally cut the outside form then use the stronghold chuck to hold it and hollow the inside. Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo ok Leo.. here's an area I'm having trouble with... I'm trying to get away from faceplate turning, to avoid the wasted wood.. (hoping to get into some more exotic wood than firewood) I've been experimenting with roughing out the bowls between centers and leaving them with either a base or tenon for the chuck, so I can do the rest of the turning with the Talon.. My problem is that whether I use a tenon or a base, the bowl won't true on the chuck.... a neighbor that works in a machine shop thinks that the base or tenon might not be true with the face of the bowl and that if it isn't, the bowl won't true out no matter how much you carve away at it... Logic tells me that if something is true when between centers, it should be true when chucked, but I must be missing something here... H E L P ! ! mac Please remove splinters before emailing |
#16
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When I rough turn I make a tenon at the base of the green wood blanks
The problem is once the blanks is dry the tenon becomes oval. I have not yet found an ideal way to true the tenon before placing it in the chuck for finishing. Dennis, Get a copy of Bill Grumbine's video on turning bowls. He addresses and demonstrates a very simple solution to that problem. Bill's address is: http://www.enter.net/~ultradad/ The disk or tape is well worth the cost. |
#17
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"Denis Marier" wrote in message
... When I rough turn I make a tenon at the base of the green wood blanks The problem is once the blanks is dry the tenon becomes oval. I have not yet found an ideal way to true the tenon before placing it in the chuck for finishing. I sure like the pin chuck/jaws method. Puts it right back between centers once it's dry. Though if you make centers before you set it aside to dry, they'll be pretty close to where they were when time comes to reset, even if you're using a cone or such. Don't think you have to do the entire turn from a single mount, and all kinds of methods will suggest themselves. Take a look at spindle turning a bowl http://personalpages.tds.net/~upgeorge/index.html |
#18
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On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 20:51:14 GMT, "Denis Marier"
wrote: Dennis.. I just make a ring collar chuck, from directions from Ken Vaughn's site... http://home.earthlink.net/~kvaughn65...ing_collar.jpg If your blank has a flat face and roughly round bottom, this works great to work on the bottom of the blank, and also to finish the bottom later.. When I rough turn I make a tenon at the base of the green wood blanks The problem is once the blanks is dry the tenon becomes oval. I have not yet found an ideal way to true the tenon before placing it in the chuck for finishing. "mac davis" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 02:06:40 -0500, Leo Van Der Loo wrote: Mac there is no wrong way or right way if it works for you But I use good wood screws, in my face plate, if my screws don't strip out then I'm not afraid that the wood will come off, now the glue joint is another question, and I rarely use glued on bowl blanks, I normally cut the outside form then use the stronghold chuck to hold it and hollow the inside. Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo ok Leo.. here's an area I'm having trouble with... I'm trying to get away from faceplate turning, to avoid the wasted wood.. (hoping to get into some more exotic wood than firewood) I've been experimenting with roughing out the bowls between centers and leaving them with either a base or tenon for the chuck, so I can do the rest of the turning with the Talon.. My problem is that whether I use a tenon or a base, the bowl won't true on the chuck.... a neighbor that works in a machine shop thinks that the base or tenon might not be true with the face of the bowl and that if it isn't, the bowl won't true out no matter how much you carve away at it... Logic tells me that if something is true when between centers, it should be true when chucked, but I must be missing something here... H E L P ! ! mac Please remove splinters before emailing mac Please remove splinters before emailing |
#19
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When I rough turn I make a tenon at the base of the green wood blanks
The problem is once the blanks is dry the tenon becomes oval. I have not yet found an ideal way to true the tenon before placing it in the chuck for finishing. I normally do rough outs and leave a tenon as opposed to a dovetail recess. If you leave the tenon larger than that which gives you "full coverage" with the chuck jaws, you can jam chuck the dried piece with the oval temon, true up the tenon and outside and chuk to reverse the inside. A dovetail recess would also, I expect, be out of round after drying. My guess is that this would be harder to re-true than a tenon as you don't have the nice convenient depression from the tailstock left from the roughing operation. Kip Powers Rogers, AR |
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Hi Mac
Yes I know what you are talking about, the way I deal with it is like this, I make sure that the face around the tenon or inside the recess, is flat and clean and square, (I use a sharp scraper for that, NO sanding) then place the work piece on the chuck and pushing in the center ( in line with the spindle ) while tightening the chuck, I do NOT squeeze the living daylight out of the wood, ( wood will distort differed depending the grain of the wood )(face grain end grain knot etc. ) now I will give the wood a quick spin, with my tool rest close so I am able to see how much if any, the work piece is running out, if its out more than I like, I will find the place where the side of the piece is farthest away from my tool rest, that is the side where it is not seated properly against the chuck jaws, I will use whatever is handy but use mostly a mallet to get it to seat better if loosening and retightening at a different place does not help, now I will check if the piece is seated better (I usually have to mark the wood so I know if things do improve or if I need to use more persuasion and also look if the wood has changed shape because of drying, 2 equal high and low spots is than the best I can do, and yes I do keep in mind that there is always some flexing going on in the whole setup, like give in the wood, chuck and shaft and bearings, machining tolerances can ad up, but normally speaking I can get the wood to run very close to perfect, like maybe 10 to 20 thou. out, certainly less than 1/16" One more thing I make sure that the tenon is not so long that it bottoms out, or the recess is to deep. Hope this is some help, if you like some clarification ( It's clear to me Big G) just ask, I will try to ad to or improve my answer. Have fun and take your time and care Leo Van Der Loo mac davis wrote: ok Leo.. here's an area I'm having trouble with... I'm trying to get away from faceplate turning, to avoid the wasted wood.. (hoping to get into some more exotic wood than firewood) I've been experimenting with roughing out the bowls between centers and leaving them with either a base or tenon for the chuck, so I can do the rest of the turning with the Talon.. My problem is that whether I use a tenon or a base, the bowl won't true on the chuck.... a neighbor that works in a machine shop thinks that the base or tenon might not be true with the face of the bowl and that if it isn't, the bowl won't true out no matter how much you carve away at it... Logic tells me that if something is true when between centers, it should be true when chucked, but I must be missing something here... H E L P ! ! mac Please remove splinters before emailing |
#21
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On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 17:58:39 -0500, Leo Van Der Loo
wrote: thanks, leo.. I haven't tried beating the **** out of it yet, but i like the idea..*g* Seriously, it might be just the adjustment that I need, but with the rubber mallet, not the BFH... OH.. by tenon, are you referring to a stub that you tighten the jaws on, or a "round groove" that you grip by expanding the jaws? I've been interpreting a tenon as an "innie" and a base as an "outtie", but I've noticed that some folks say tenon to mean either one.. Hi Mac Yes I know what you are talking about, the way I deal with it is like this, I make sure that the face around the tenon or inside the recess, is flat and clean and square, (I use a sharp scraper for that, NO sanding) then place the work piece on the chuck and pushing in the center ( in line with the spindle ) while tightening the chuck, I do NOT squeeze the living daylight out of the wood, ( wood will distort differed depending the grain of the wood )(face grain end grain knot etc. ) now I will give the wood a quick spin, with my tool rest close so I am able to see how much if any, the work piece is running out, if its out more than I like, I will find the place where the side of the piece is farthest away from my tool rest, that is the side where it is not seated properly against the chuck jaws, I will use whatever is handy but use mostly a mallet to get it to seat better if loosening and retightening at a different place does not help, now I will check if the piece is seated better (I usually have to mark the wood so I know if things do improve or if I need to use more persuasion and also look if the wood has changed shape because of drying, 2 equal high and low spots is than the best I can do, and yes I do keep in mind that there is always some flexing going on in the whole setup, like give in the wood, chuck and shaft and bearings, machining tolerances can ad up, but normally speaking I can get the wood to run very close to perfect, like maybe 10 to 20 thou. out, certainly less than 1/16" One more thing I make sure that the tenon is not so long that it bottoms out, or the recess is to deep. Hope this is some help, if you like some clarification ( It's clear to me Big G) just ask, I will try to ad to or improve my answer. Have fun and take your time and care Leo Van Der Loo mac davis wrote: ok Leo.. here's an area I'm having trouble with... I'm trying to get away from faceplate turning, to avoid the wasted wood.. (hoping to get into some more exotic wood than firewood) I've been experimenting with roughing out the bowls between centers and leaving them with either a base or tenon for the chuck, so I can do the rest of the turning with the Talon.. My problem is that whether I use a tenon or a base, the bowl won't true on the chuck.... a neighbor that works in a machine shop thinks that the base or tenon might not be true with the face of the bowl and that if it isn't, the bowl won't true out no matter how much you carve away at it... Logic tells me that if something is true when between centers, it should be true when chucked, but I must be missing something here... H E L P ! ! mac Please remove splinters before emailing mac Please remove splinters before emailing |
#22
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Some points that might help.
1. Make sure jaws are in the right place. Most chucks have both the jaws and where they attach to the chuck numbered. If you have the #1 jaw segment on the #2 chuck position you got trouble. 2. When attaching jaws - With the chuck slightly open, put on all jaws but don't tighten the screws, leave them a little loose. Then tighten the chuck all the way closed. Now snug the screws pretty tightly in the same way as you would when changing a tire (alternate in/out and side to side). Finally, open the chuck a little and completely tighten the screws. 3. Make sure the tennon isn't long enough to bottom out in the chuck and that you turn a flat on the bowl to mate with the top surface of the jaws. The tennon doesn't position the bowl, it's there only to grip. The top surface of the jaws meets the flat on the bowl and that's what positions the bowl. 4. The chuck should screw down all the way and meet the reference surface on the spindle. If there is any gap you got trouble. Solve the problem, if it exists, by getting a spindle washer (not one from the hardware store) these are ground to have perfectly parallel sides. Hope this helps. |
#23
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My problem is that whether I use a tenon or a base, the bowl won't
true on the chuck. If you are working with unseasoned or partially seasoned stock, the problem may be that the tenon is "moving" and changing shape. What I do is jam chuck the bowl to be finish turned, true the tenon and outside, then chuck up and work the inside. Rarely use a dovetail recess, but expect that a similar strategy might work. Hope this helps!. If I'm not making myself clear, please feel free to get back to me in group or by email Kip Powers Rogers, AR |
#24
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