I realize this is the electronics.repair group and not a computer group, but
my question is really about wire.

Long story short: I've had 1.5 Mbps DSL for years. I found I could
upgrade to 6.0 Mbps service and did. Earthlink sent me a new modem. New
modem would only get 1.5 Mbps. Two hours on the phone to India and we gave
up and they made a trouble ticket to AT&T to check the line. The AT&T line
guy checked the line to the box on the side of the house and said it was
perfect.

I disconnected the house and plugged in a single 30 foot telephone cord from
the AT&T box directly into the DSL modem. No change, 1.5 Mbps.

Today the guy from India calls and tells me the AT&T guy said the problem
was in the house wires. I said, nope... I disconnected the house and ran a
direct 30 foot wire. He said, "Oh well, the problem could be in that 30
foot wire."

Just a sanity check here before I call them back and start yelling, that's
an absolutely absurd statement isn't it?


Dallas

On Wed, 28 May 2008 14:31:22 -0500, "Dallas"
wrote:

Today the guy from India calls and tells me the AT&T guy said the problem
was in the house wires. I said, nope... I disconnected the house and ran a
direct 30 foot wire. He said, "Oh well, the problem could be in that 30
foot wire."

Just a sanity check here before I call them back and start yelling, that's
an absolutely absurd statement isn't it?

Not completely. I "could" levitate if all of the quantum particles in
me decided to move upwards at the same time. The probability is pretty
damned low but it's non-zero, therefore "could" is technically
correct.

If you tell them that you ran a second cable directly from the NID to
the modem and STILL get the same results, then the probability that
it's on the phone company wiring is pretty high, approaching
certainty.

On the other hand, there's a non-zero probability that I'll suddenly
levitate AND do a loop-dee-loop ...

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

On Wed, 28 May 2008 14:31:22 -0500, "Dallas"
wrote:

I realize this is the electronics.repair group and not a computer group, but
my question is really about wire.

Long story short: I've had 1.5 Mbps DSL for years. I found I could
upgrade to 6.0 Mbps service and did. Earthlink sent me a new modem. New
modem would only get 1.5 Mbps. Two hours on the phone to India and we gave
up and they made a trouble ticket to AT&T to check the line. The AT&T line
guy checked the line to the box on the side of the house and said it was
perfect.

I disconnected the house and plugged in a single 30 foot telephone cord from
the AT&T box directly into the DSL modem. No change, 1.5 Mbps.

Today the guy from India calls and tells me the AT&T guy said the problem
was in the house wires. I said, nope... I disconnected the house and ran a
direct 30 foot wire. He said, "Oh well, the problem could be in that 30
foot wire."

Just a sanity check here before I call them back and start yelling, that's
an absolutely absurd statement isn't it?


Dallas

I had a problem with AT&T DSL for over 2 years. Their India based
tech support is the worse I've ever seen but if you can get bumped up
to someone in the U.S. the chance of talking to a knowledgable person
is quite high. It sounds like you are probably too far from the
switch for 6 Mbps service. My problem, as I surmised from the first,
was the wire pair was faulty. They put their meter on my wire pair
over and over and said it was perfect but what they were measuring was
leakage between the two wires. The problem was a poor connection on
one of the two wires. Changing the wire pair after all that time
cured the problem. Chuck

In article ,
Dallas wrote:

Today the guy from India calls and tells me the AT&T guy said the problem
was in the house wires. I said, nope... I disconnected the house and ran a
direct 30 foot wire. He said, "Oh well, the problem could be in that 30
foot wire."

Just a sanity check here before I call them back and start yelling, that's
an absolutely absurd statement isn't it?

It's not *absolutely* absurd. Just highly improbable.

Just so you can be sure... I'd suggest re-doing the test, with the DSL
modem plugged directly into the demarc connector using a short 6'
cable. If necessary, run a 30' Ethernet cable and a 30' power
extension cord, so that you can move the DSL modem right next to the
demarc. Ideally, plug a laptop computer directly into the DSL modem's
Ethernet port, so that you can eliminate your home Ethernet wiring
from consideration.

Try this with two different 6' phone cords.

If you still get low bandwidth (and I strongly suspect that you
will), call them back and start yelling.

I've found that the phrases "Connected directly to the demarc, with
the house wiring completely disconnected" and "I tried two different
cables, with identical results" work pretty well. This sort of test
result pretty much eliminates the house, and your own equipment, as
the source of the problem.

Another thing to consider: there are a couple of different ways to
check the connection bandwidth. One is to perform an actual
end-to-end bandwidth download test.. it's the surest way to measure
your true download speed, but can be subject to a bunch of confounding
factors (e.g. whether your home Ethernet wiring has problems that are
causing dropped packets, whether the ISP's backbone network or DSLAM
is saturated, etc.).

The other way is to log into the DSL modem's administrative interface,
and ask for the line statistics. It should show you the actual
on-the-wire data connection rate, and the number of data frames which
are being dropped due to transmission errors.

If the DSL modem itself says taht the line rate is 1.6
megabits/second, when the modem is jacked directly into the demarc,
then you *definitely* have line problems that AT&T should fix.

If the DSL modem says that you've got a higher line rate, but you
can't actually download at more than a fraction of that rate, then
the problem lies elsewhere (maybe in your house Ethernet wiring, maybe
in the DSL modem configuration, maybe at the ISP end due to some sort
of data throttling or over-subscription of their backbone).

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

"Dallas" wrote in message
m...
I realize this is the electronics.repair group and not a computer group,
but my question is really about wire.

Long story short: I've had 1.5 Mbps DSL for years. I found I could
upgrade to 6.0 Mbps service and did. Earthlink sent me a new modem. New
modem would only get 1.5 Mbps. Two hours on the phone to India and we
gave up and they made a trouble ticket to AT&T to check the line. The
AT&T line guy checked the line to the box on the side of the house and
said it was perfect.

I disconnected the house and plugged in a single 30 foot telephone cord
from the AT&T box directly into the DSL modem. No change, 1.5 Mbps.

Today the guy from India calls and tells me the AT&T guy said the problem
was in the house wires. I said, nope... I disconnected the house and ran
a direct 30 foot wire. He said, "Oh well, the problem could be in that 30
foot wire."

Just a sanity check here before I call them back and start yelling, that's
an absolutely absurd statement isn't it?


Dallas

If you had the problem with the 30' cable also, that means it is on the
phone company's side. I HATE dealing with foreign tech support!!! They are
almost always incompetent and always imply you are stupid and don't get what
is going on. Why must we outsource everything from the USA. And people
wonder why there are no jobs here.

Mike

Dallas wrote:

I realize this is the electronics.repair group and not a computer group, but
my question is really about wire.

Long story short: I've had 1.5 Mbps DSL for years. I found I could
upgrade to 6.0 Mbps service and did. Earthlink sent me a new modem. New
modem would only get 1.5 Mbps. Two hours on the phone to India and we gave
up and they made a trouble ticket to AT&T to check the line. The AT&T line
guy checked the line to the box on the side of the house and said it was
perfect.

I disconnected the house and plugged in a single 30 foot telephone cord from
the AT&T box directly into the DSL modem. No change, 1.5 Mbps.

Today the guy from India calls and tells me the AT&T guy said the problem
was in the house wires. I said, nope... I disconnected the house and ran a
direct 30 foot wire. He said, "Oh well, the problem could be in that 30
foot wire."

Just a sanity check here before I call them back and start yelling, that's
an absolutely absurd statement isn't it?


Dallas


Did you read the fine print in the agreement with EarthLink?

For that kind of speed you need to have Fiber near by..

Also, these so called High Speed packages many times involves
using special software from them and the question remains!, Are you
really getting 6 Mb ?


http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

"Michael Kennedy" wrote in message

I HATE dealing with foreign tech support!!! They are almost always
incompetent and always imply you are stupid


Absolutely!

They told me to contract one of the area repair guys to check my house wires
*at my expense*.

I asked them, "Why check my house when I've disconnected the house and have
run the line directly to the box?"

"Oh, it might be bad wiring or a filter"....

Then I would repeat myself, "I'm not connected to the house wiring! I'm
directly connected to the phone company!"

Honestly, they really just don't get it and I'm having the problem of their
horrible accents... I really can't understand them half the time.

They're like little robots that have been given a command they don't
understand... "Does not compute, does not compute.... spark... spark..
zzzt".

Grrrr

Dallas

"Dave Platt" wrote in message

Just so you can be sure... I'd suggest re-doing the test, with the DSL
modem plugged directly into the demarc connector using a short 6'
cable.

I'd love to but I just don't have the 30' Ethernet cable.

But, I just tested the 30' phone line with a meter and it shows continuity
between all the connector blades and it draws just 2 ohms on each wire, so
it's looks fine. I reconnected the direct connect and am running on it now.
Still no change 1647 download 644 upload.


megabits/second, when the modem is jacked directly into the demarc,
then you *definitely* have line problems that AT&T should fix.


The AT&T guy connected a laptop to his box and ran his tests with that. He
said the line was good.

I keep getting the feeling that the Earthlink software didn't upgrade the
line to 6.0 Mbps.

:-/

Dallas













If the DSL modem says that you've got a higher line rate, but you
can't actually download at more than a fraction of that rate, then
the problem lies elsewhere (maybe in your house Ethernet wiring, maybe
in the DSL modem configuration, maybe at the ISP end due to some sort
of data throttling or over-subscription of their backbone).

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

Dallas wrote:

I realize this is the electronics.repair group and not a computer group, but
my question is really about wire.

Long story short: I've had 1.5 Mbps DSL for years. I found I could
upgrade to 6.0 Mbps service and did. Earthlink sent me a new modem. New
modem would only get 1.5 Mbps. Two hours on the phone to India and we gave
up and they made a trouble ticket to AT&T to check the line. The AT&T line
guy checked the line to the box on the side of the house and said it was
perfect.

I disconnected the house and plugged in a single 30 foot telephone cord from
the AT&T box directly into the DSL modem. No change, 1.5 Mbps.

Today the guy from India calls and tells me the AT&T guy said the problem
was in the house wires. I said, nope... I disconnected the house and ran a
direct 30 foot wire. He said, "Oh well, the problem could be in that 30
foot wire."

Just a sanity check here before I call them back and start yelling, that's
an absolutely absurd statement isn't it?

Yes. They're probably forgotten to reconfigure the DSLAM.

Any outfit that uses Indian call centres is inherently not to be trusted IMHO.

Graham

In article ,
Dallas wrote:
The AT&T guy connected a laptop to his box and ran his tests with that.
He said the line was good.

I keep getting the feeling that the Earthlink software didn't upgrade
the line to 6.0 Mbps.

Access the modem setup and check the stats. That should give you the line
speed. Which has probably got nothing to do with the actual speeds, though.

--
*I feel like I'm diagonally parked in a parallel universe*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dallas wrote:

"Dave Platt" wrote in message


Just so you can be sure... I'd suggest re-doing the test, with the DSL
modem plugged directly into the demarc connector using a short 6'
cable.


I'd love to but I just don't have the 30' Ethernet cable.

But, I just tested the 30' phone line with a meter and it shows continuity
between all the connector blades and it draws just 2 ohms on each wire, so
it's looks fine. I reconnected the direct connect and am running on it now.
Still no change 1647 download 644 upload.



megabits/second, when the modem is jacked directly into the demarc,
then you *definitely* have line problems that AT&T should fix.



The AT&T guy connected a laptop to his box and ran his tests with that. He
said the line was good.

I keep getting the feeling that the Earthlink software didn't upgrade the
line to 6.0 Mbps.

:-/

Dallas

Look, don't feel bad, I'm being forced higher rates to pay for a speed
that I'm not getting.
Most of the time, I just get above 1 mb, they raised my $rates and
told me that minimum speed is now 5 mb, I still don't get any faster
through put than before and there is no packages for me to get it cheaper..

It's a monopoly and unless a **** load complain, they get away with it.
P.S.
I went through the BS like you, the service tech check the signal in
my area and said "Well, thats the speed", didn't change my bill how ever.

http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

On Thu, 29 May 2008 00:15:19 +0100, Eeyore
put finger to keyboard and
composed:



Dallas wrote:

I realize this is the electronics.repair group and not a computer group, but
my question is really about wire.

Long story short: I've had 1.5 Mbps DSL for years. I found I could
upgrade to 6.0 Mbps service and did. Earthlink sent me a new modem. New
modem would only get 1.5 Mbps. Two hours on the phone to India and we gave
up and they made a trouble ticket to AT&T to check the line. The AT&T line
guy checked the line to the box on the side of the house and said it was
perfect.

I disconnected the house and plugged in a single 30 foot telephone cord from
the AT&T box directly into the DSL modem. No change, 1.5 Mbps.

Today the guy from India calls and tells me the AT&T guy said the problem
was in the house wires. I said, nope... I disconnected the house and ran a
direct 30 foot wire. He said, "Oh well, the problem could be in that 30
foot wire."

Just a sanity check here before I call them back and start yelling, that's
an absolutely absurd statement isn't it?

Yes. They're probably forgotten to reconfigure the DSLAM.


That was my first thought.

The OP could interrogate his modem and determine the attenuation on
his line. The following is what my modem tells me:

================================================== ====================
Local Tx. Power(dB) : 11.12 Remote Tx.Power(dB) : 18.6
Local Line Atten(dB) : 50.0 Remote Line Atten(dB) : 25.5
Local SNR Margin(dB) : 31.5 Remote SNR Margin(dB) : 24.0
================================================== ====================

I would repeat the above test with and without the 30ft cord.

This is my ISP's blurb on the subject:
http://www.internode.on.net/resident..._adsl/extreme/

It includes a graph of speed versus attenuation (which is related to
the distance from the exchange).

One more thought. Let's say the OP was originally on a 1.5Mbps/256Kbps
asymmetric service. I suggest that the OP now uploads a big file to
his web space via FTP, or emails a large file to himself. If the
upload speed is still capped at 256Kbps, then that would indicate a
DSLAM configuration problem.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

"Jamie" t wrote in message
...
Dallas wrote:

"Dave Platt" wrote in message


Just so you can be sure... I'd suggest re-doing the test, with the DSL
modem plugged directly into the demarc connector using a short 6'
cable.


I'd love to but I just don't have the 30' Ethernet cable.

But, I just tested the 30' phone line with a meter and it shows
continuity between all the connector blades and it draws just 2 ohms on
each wire, so it's looks fine. I reconnected the direct connect and am
running on it now. Still no change 1647 download 644 upload.



megabits/second, when the modem is jacked directly into the demarc,
then you *definitely* have line problems that AT&T should fix.



The AT&T guy connected a laptop to his box and ran his tests with that.
He said the line was good.

I keep getting the feeling that the Earthlink software didn't upgrade the
line to 6.0 Mbps.

:-/

Dallas

Look, don't feel bad, I'm being forced higher rates to pay for a speed
that I'm not getting.
Most of the time, I just get above 1 mb, they raised my $rates and told
me that minimum speed is now 5 mb, I still don't get any faster through
put than before and there is no packages for me to get it cheaper..

It's a monopoly and unless a **** load complain, they get away with it.
P.S.
I went through the BS like you, the service tech check the signal in
my area and said "Well, thats the speed", didn't change my bill how ever.

http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"


A lot of people in the UK find this when they go over to ADSL broadband on a
BT line. They expect to get 8 meg, and can't understand that unless they are
within about a half a copper mile from the exchange, the chances of getting
this are slim to zero, no matter how much they pay. My broadband service is
provided by a cable company and is rated at 20 meg. It pretty much achieves
this most of the time. The cable operator is able to offer packages at
various speeds, and because the actual speed of the cable backbone is
potentially limitless for all practical purposes, given that the ultimate
limiting factor is how often they upgrade their equipment, they are able to
deliver what the customers are paying for. The speeds are capped by them in
their equipment, so are independant of the actual network.

My service started off life some years back at 1meg when the 'standard' was
56k. It was then upgraded FOC to 3 meg, when they upgraded their equipment.
There have since been free upgrades to 10 meg, and then a while back, 20
meg.

If you do have a problem though, it's the Indian call centre, with accents
that you can't understand. It is of absolutely no use at all to tell them
that you are computer savvy, and fully understand rebooting computers and
modems and routers. They go through all this bull anyway, and you are still
no closer at the end. I once lost all my internet service, and when it had
not come back on after several hours, I called to see if they had any
issues. After going through what was not happening, the guy assured me that
the cable in my house was faulty. In turn I assured him that it wasn't as
the FM radio signal that I have delivered with the internet service, was
exactly the same strength at the tuner, as it always was. There then
followed a long exchange where he insisted that they do not provide FM radio
signals on the network ...

Fortunately, I have a very old friend who works for them, so most of the
time, although I don't like disturbing him at work, if I have a problem, I
just give him a call, and he gets it resolved in minutes, by phoning one of
his mates in the appropriate department. I guess I have been spoiled now
with this level of 'service', so I don't know what I will ever do in the
future when he retires ...

Arfa

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

"Jamie" t wrote in
message ...
Dallas wrote:

"Dave Platt" wrote in message


Just so you can be sure... I'd suggest re-doing the test, with the DSL
modem plugged directly into the demarc connector using a short 6'
cable.


I'd love to but I just don't have the 30' Ethernet cable.

But, I just tested the 30' phone line with a meter and it shows
continuity between all the connector blades and it draws just 2 ohms on
each wire, so it's looks fine. I reconnected the direct connect and am
running on it now. Still no change 1647 download 644 upload.



megabits/second, when the modem is jacked directly into the demarc,
then you *definitely* have line problems that AT&T should fix.



The AT&T guy connected a laptop to his box and ran his tests with that.
He said the line was good.

I keep getting the feeling that the Earthlink software didn't upgrade
the line to 6.0 Mbps.

:-/

Dallas

Look, don't feel bad, I'm being forced higher rates to pay for a speed
that I'm not getting.
Most of the time, I just get above 1 mb, they raised my $rates and told
me that minimum speed is now 5 mb, I still don't get any faster through
put than before and there is no packages for me to get it cheaper..

It's a monopoly and unless a **** load complain, they get away with it.
P.S.
I went through the BS like you, the service tech check the signal in
my area and said "Well, thats the speed", didn't change my bill how ever.

http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"


A lot of people in the UK find this when they go over to ADSL broadband on
a BT line. They expect to get 8 meg, and can't understand that unless they
are within about a half a copper mile from the exchange, the chances of
getting this are slim to zero, no matter how much they pay. My broadband
service is provided by a cable company and is rated at 20 meg. It pretty
much achieves this most of the time. The cable operator is able to offer
packages at various speeds, and because the actual speed of the cable
backbone is potentially limitless for all practical purposes, given that
the ultimate limiting factor is how often they upgrade their equipment,
they are able to deliver what the customers are paying for. The speeds are
capped by them in their equipment, so are independant of the actual
network.

My service started off life some years back at 1meg when the 'standard'
was 56k. It was then upgraded FOC to 3 meg, when they upgraded their
equipment. There have since been free upgrades to 10 meg, and then a while
back, 20 meg.

If you do have a problem though, it's the Indian call centre, with accents
that you can't understand. It is of absolutely no use at all to tell them
that you are computer savvy, and fully understand rebooting computers and
modems and routers. They go through all this bull anyway, and you are
still no closer at the end. I once lost all my internet service, and when
it had not come back on after several hours, I called to see if they had
any issues. After going through what was not happening, the guy assured me
that the cable in my house was faulty. In turn I assured him that it
wasn't as the FM radio signal that I have delivered with the internet
service, was exactly the same strength at the tuner, as it always was.
There then followed a long exchange where he insisted that they do not
provide FM radio signals on the network ...

Fortunately, I have a very old friend who works for them, so most of the
time, although I don't like disturbing him at work, if I have a problem, I
just give him a call, and he gets it resolved in minutes, by phoning one
of his mates in the appropriate department. I guess I have been spoiled
now with this level of 'service', so I don't know what I will ever do in
the future when he retires ...

Arfa


I wish we could do away with call centers in other countries. They are
always clueless and just end up making everyone angry. I think I might
rather have no support than have to talk to a call center that wastes my
time and doesn't do anything to solve my problems. At least with no support
I couldn't be angered by the support staff arguing with me telling me that
something must work if I did what they told me to do. I explain I did
everything they told me to do an it doesn't work.. They say it will work.. I
explain it doesn't. They say again it is impossible.. It must work if you
did this.. And of course no one there has ever actually repaired anything so
they don't know that there can be more than one cause for certain symptoms
and that the book is not always correct.

If you ever need to get a cell phone unlocked NEVER use GSM Liberty
http://www.gsmliberty.net/ They only have a call center in India and refuse
to actually help you or refund your money. I got screwed out of $30 by them.

Sorry for the rant..... I guess I'm still steamed about my ordeal with this
company.

Dallas wrote:

"Dave Platt" wrote in message

Just so you can be sure... I'd suggest re-doing the test, with the DSL
modem plugged directly into the demarc connector using a short 6'
cable.

I'd love to but I just don't have the 30' Ethernet cable.

But, I just tested the 30' phone line with a meter and it shows continuity
between all the connector blades and it draws just 2 ohms on each wire, so
it's looks fine.


You can't do the required test with an ohm meter. First of all, the
telephone wire from the phone company is twisted pair, and intended for
long runs. The flat silver satin, or similar wire isn't twisted, or
intended for DSL use. It is soft wire made for lots of flexing and use
at audio frequencies. Anything above that is just a crap shoot. DSL is
RF, not audio and the cable behaves differently. The attenuation is a
lot higher than the proper twisted pair cable.


If you don't have a long ethernet cable, see if you can borrow a
laptop with an ethernet port. If the bandwidth is still low you need to
find out how far you ae from the phone company's DSL equipment. The
longer the run, the higher the losses, and the lower the usable speed.

Another problem ids that non twisted cable can pick up RF from other
sources, and degrade your signal. That causes more lost packets, and
lower usable bandwidth.

--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm

Sporadic E is the Earth's aluminum foil beanie for the 'global warming'
sheep.

On Wed, 28 May 2008 17:54:55 -0500, "Dallas"
put finger to keyboard and composed:

Still no change 1647 download 644 upload.

The Earthlink web site doesn't indicate what upload speeds are
available on the various plans. However, if your upload speed has
improved, then it would appear that the DSLAM has been adjusted to
your new plan.

Here in Australia my ISP's 1.5Mbps ADSL plan has an upload cap of
256kbps whereas the high speed plans have an upload limit of 820kbps.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

On May 29, 4:07*pm, Franc Zabkar wrote:
On Wed, 28 May 2008 17:54:55 -0500, "Dallas"
put finger to keyboard and composed:

Still no change 1647 download 644 upload.

The Earthlink web site doesn't indicate what upload speeds are
available on the various plans. However, if your upload speed has
improved, then it would appear that the DSLAM has been adjusted to
your new plan.

Here in Australia my ISP's 1.5Mbps ADSL plan has an upload cap of
256kbps whereas the high speed plans have an upload limit of 820kbps.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

I have DSL. I got great results from my local phone company here in
Chicago, Illinois, by calling the repair bureau and after getting
stonewalled by a proper USA English-speaking person who was obviously
reading from a script, I said I might have to do some testing on the
line myself and that if anything did get blown up it would not be my
fault as they had refused to do the testing.

I immediately got transferred to a supervisor who told me all the bad
things they could do to me if I blew up their phone lines. I said I
was not threatening to blow up their lines, just that I would maybe
have to do some testing if they did not do it.

They were on the scene the next day and replaced a faulty drop line
from the pole to the house. Everything's now working great.

Bob Hofmann

"Michael A. Terrell" said:

The attenuation is a lot higher than the proper twisted pair cable.


Darn... now you've injected doubt on this end of the testing... the 30'
connector is flat silver cable.

I'd like to rule out the wiring after the Phone Company box as the source of
the problem, so a couple of questions:

#1
I called AT&T DSL sales (they own the line) this afternoon and they checked
two sources to confirm I can get 6.0 Mbps service. She couldn't give me the
actual distance, but she said (with great confidence) that she could
"guarantee" 6.0. If I can get 5.0 - 6.0 Mbps service to the box and I run
the 30 foot flat silver connector wire from the box to the modem, is it
likely that the 30' cable could reduce the performance of the line from 6.0
down to 1.0 - 1.5 Mbps?

#2
If I got 30' of twisted pair cable from Fry Electronics and ran it from the
Telco box right up to the modem, would that serve as a 100% test to prove
that the problem wasn't in my house wiring?


Dallas

Dallas wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" said:

The attenuation is a lot higher than the proper twisted pair cable.

Darn... now you've injected doubt on this end of the testing... the 30'
connector is flat silver cable.

I'd like to rule out the wiring after the Phone Company box as the source of
the problem, so a couple of questions:

#1
I called AT&T DSL sales (they own the line) this afternoon and they checked
two sources to confirm I can get 6.0 Mbps service. She couldn't give me the
actual distance, but she said (with great confidence) that she could
"guarantee" 6.0. If I can get 5.0 - 6.0 Mbps service to the box and I run
the 30 foot flat silver connector wire from the box to the modem, is it
likely that the 30' cable could reduce the performance of the line from 6.0
down to 1.0 - 1.5 Mbps?

#2
If I got 30' of twisted pair cable from Fry Electronics and ran it from the
Telco box right up to the modem, would that serve as a 100% test to prove
that the problem wasn't in my house wiring?

Dallas


Use some cat 3 or cat 5 wire to run the DSL to the modem. I had to do
that at a freind's business to improve the data rate, when the original
was four conductor station wire. (Old fashion four wire, with no twist.)


--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm

Sporadic E is the Earth's aluminum foil beanie for the 'global warming'
sheep.

The attenuation is a lot higher than the proper twisted pair cable.


Darn... now you've injected doubt on this end of the testing... the 30'
connector is flat silver cable.

I'd like to rule out the wiring after the Phone Company box as the source of
the problem, so a couple of questions:

#1
I called AT&T DSL sales (they own the line) this afternoon and they checked
two sources to confirm I can get 6.0 Mbps service. She couldn't give me the
actual distance, but she said (with great confidence) that she could
"guarantee" 6.0. If I can get 5.0 - 6.0 Mbps service to the box and I run
the 30 foot flat silver connector wire from the box to the modem, is it
likely that the 30' cable could reduce the performance of the line from 6.0
down to 1.0 - 1.5 Mbps?

I wouldn't think it would be *that* bad, but I suppose it's possible.

If I got 30' of twisted pair cable from Fry Electronics and ran it from the
Telco box right up to the modem, would that serve as a 100% test to prove
that the problem wasn't in my house wiring?

If you use CAT-5 or better, I'd certainly think so.

I really do think you should do the "take the DSL modem out to the
demarc and test with a short, good cable" test, even if this means
that you have to temporarily move your computer. That's the best way
to eliminate the whole house-wiring issue completely.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

"Dave Platt"
I really do think you should do the "take the DSL modem out to the
demarc and test with a short, good cable" test, even if this means
that you have to temporarily move your computer.


Groan!... my computer is huge.. the case is a server case and every
connector on the back has a cable in it... not impossible, just slightly
mind-boggling. :- )

I'll try to scrounge up someone's laptop.

Hey... just wanted to say to thanks to everyone - I wasn't expecting as
much good help as I'm getting here on this subject.

Dallas

"Dave Platt"

The other way is to log into the DSL modem's administrative interface,
and ask for the line statistics.

I don't know how to read this yet... I'm not sure what it's telling me.

Is the "6016 kbps" an actual throughput or just the connection speed?

WAN Port Statistics

Upstream Speed:768 kbps
Downstream Speed: 6016 kbps
Node-Link 1-PPPoE
Status Up
TxPkts 57459
RxPkts 52601
Errors 0
Tx B/s 0
Rx B/s 0


Dallas

Dallas wrote:
"Dave Platt"
I really do think you should do the "take the DSL modem out to the
demarc and test with a short, good cable" test, even if this means
that you have to temporarily move your computer.


Groan!... my computer is huge.. the case is a server case and every
connector on the back has a cable in it... not impossible, just slightly
mind-boggling. :- )

I'll try to scrounge up someone's laptop.

Hey... just wanted to say to thanks to everyone - I wasn't expecting as
much good help as I'm getting here on this subject.

Dallas



Just get a long ethernet cable and an ac extension cord. The ethernet
doesn't care how far away it is (within reason). Carry the modem out to
the phone box, pop that open and hook it up with a short phone cable
(and the extension cord). Run the CAT5 back into the 'puter and browse
away....

jak

Dallas wrote:

"Dave Platt"

The other way is to log into the DSL modem's administrative interface,
and ask for the line statistics.

I don't know how to read this yet... I'm not sure what it's telling me.

Is the "6016 kbps" an actual throughput or just the connection speed?

WAN Port Statistics

Upstream Speed:768 kbps
Downstream Speed: 6016 kbps
Node-Link 1-PPPoE
Status Up
TxPkts 57459
RxPkts 52601
Errors 0
Tx B/s 0
Rx B/s 0

Dallas


That looks like what the modem is configured for.

Run an actual test by going to:

http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest?more=1

and pick the test server closest to you


Your headers indicate that you're near Atlanta, Ga. If so, the
closest are probably these:

http://speedtest.knology.net/

or

http://speedtest.ga.charter.com/

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

In article ,
Dallas wrote:

Is the "6016 kbps" an actual throughput or just the connection speed?

WAN Port Statistics

Upstream Speed:768 kbps
Downstream Speed: 6016 kbps
Node-Link 1-PPPoE
Status Up
TxPkts 57459
RxPkts 52601
Errors 0
Tx B/s 0
Rx B/s 0

That is probably the data-modulation speed which has been negotiated
between the DSLAM and your DSL modem. I suspect that the "B/s" values
at the end are the actual throughput, over the last few seconds of
operation.

The fact that the error count is zero is good news... it suggests that
the modem isn't seeing defective cells/packets.

The next thing to do is to start a download (as fast as possible) and
then re-measure the WAN port statistics and compare them to what
you're seeing on your server. If the upstream and downstream speeds
are still what you see here, but the Tx B/s throughputs are quite a
lot less, then it would suggest that the data is being throttled by
something other than the speed of the DSL connection itself.

This might happen if your ISP has some sort of explicit rate-limiting
or traffic-shaping filters in place, and hasn't yet readjusted them to
account for the fact that your account speed has been upgraded. Or,
it could indicate that your server has too small a TCP receive window,
and that the latency in the DSL connection is delaying the ACK packets
enough to degrade your throughput. Or, it might mean that whatever
site you're downloading from during your speed test isn't able or
willing to feed you at rates greater than around 1.5 megabit.


--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

"jakdedert" wrote in message
. ..
Dallas wrote:
"Dave Platt"
I really do think you should do the "take the DSL modem out to the
demarc and test with a short, good cable" test, even if this means
that you have to temporarily move your computer.


Groan!... my computer is huge.. the case is a server case and every
connector on the back has a cable in it... not impossible, just slightly
mind-boggling. :- )

I'll try to scrounge up someone's laptop.

Hey... just wanted to say to thanks to everyone - I wasn't expecting as
much good help as I'm getting here on this subject.

Dallas



Just get a long ethernet cable and an ac extension cord. The ethernet
doesn't care how far away it is (within reason). Carry the modem out to
the phone box, pop that open and hook it up with a short phone cable (and
the extension cord). Run the CAT5 back into the 'puter and browse
away....

jak

I?think even wal mart sells Ethernet cables this long so it shouldn't be a
problem to locate one.

#2
If I got 30' of twisted pair cable from Fry Electronics and ran it from the
Telco box right up to the modem, would that serve as a 100% test to prove
that the problem wasn't in my house wiring?


Dallas




Just go buy a long CAT-5 ethernet cable and plug the modem straight into
the box on the side of the house. The long cable will probably come in
handy for something else sooner or later.

In article ,
Dallas wrote:
The other way is to log into the DSL modem's administrative interface,
and ask for the line statistics.

I don't know how to read this yet... I'm not sure what it's telling me.

Is the "6016 kbps" an actual throughput or just the connection speed?

That's the connection speed which IMHO means your line is fine. What
happens the other side of the exchange is out of your control - or the
phone line provider.

--
*The modem is the message *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"James Sweet" wrote in message

Just go buy a long CAT-5 ethernet cable and plug the modem straight into
the box on the side of the house.

I didn't realize they were so cheap...

Yup, sounds like the best idea - I'll do it this afternoon.


Dallas

In article ,
Meat Plow wrote:
When I had some problems with noise in the signal here at home, ATT sent
a tech out with his laptop and diagnosed it from this end of the DSLAM.
He was also able to tell me what I could expect speed-wise from this
end. It was interesting looking at the diagnostics on the carrier side
of the signal as I could see why 1.5 Kb/sec was my max in the way of
error correction and retransmissions again, on the carrier side of the
signal. Do they no longer offer this? Do you know it takes some time for
the modem to negotiate or "train" but in your case a week is too long.

I wonder what parameters they measure that the router test prog can't?

--
*24 hours in a day ... 24 beers in a case ... coincidence? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Meat Plow wrote:
I wonder what parameters they measure that the router test prog can't?

Don't know. My modem is a Speedstream 5130 and separate from my pc by a
router so I can't access that data.

Don't see why a router should make any difference to that.

However I would have to assume the tech's diagnostics dove deeper into it
as he was on the phone with another tech. He also had some pager device
that gave him a security code via satellite to allow him to log into
whatever he logged into using my connection.

All you can really test is the line status. Everything after it depends on
so many variables.

--
*You are validating my inherent mistrust of strangers

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Platt" wrote in message

I really do think you should do the "take the DSL modem out to the
demarc and test with a short, good cable" test

Just an FYI update for anyone following my DSLHell adventures:

Test site:
http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest?loc=1&premium=

I took the modem outside to the Telco box and connected it to the NID on a
12" flat silver cable and ran a 50' CAT6 Ethernet cable to the computer.
Results:
Upstream: 1910
Downstream: 644

Connected the modem to the house phone outlet.
Results:
Upstream: 1519
Downstream: 638

(I used many more sites and tests but they generally came out the same.)

So... I gotta think my inside wiring is not so bad. Now I guess I have to
depend on the guys in India to unravel the problem. :- (


Dallas

On Thu, 29 May 2008 21:21:17 -0500 "Dallas"
wrote:


"Michael A. Terrell" said:

The attenuation is a lot higher than the proper twisted pair cable.


Darn... now you've injected doubt on this end of the testing... the 30'
connector is flat silver cable.

I'd like to rule out the wiring after the Phone Company box as the source of
the problem, so a couple of questions:

Your best test would still be to borrow a laptop that you can carry to
the end of the DSL line. You won't really have a handle on the problem
until you have checked the speed there, as well as at the end of your
30' phone cord, with the same instrument.

Once you've done that, you'll have a much better idea of where and
what the problem is.

Until you do that, we're all just guessing.

.... But now I've read others' suggestions to buy a long ethernet
cable. This is a good suggestion, and is equivalent to the laptop
test.

-
-----------------------------------------------
Jim Adney
Madison, WI 53711 USA
-----------------------------------------------

In article ,
Meat Plow wrote:
Don't know. My modem is a Speedstream 5130 and separate from my pc by a
router so I can't access that data.

Don't see why a router should make any difference to that.

Well I guess not but I should have mentioned the modem has no web
interface to garner any stats from. And unless I'm missing some other
way to connect to it there isn't any besides maybe being able to do it
via it's MAC address if connected directly to the PC via the PPPoE WAN
miniport. I should toss the model number into Google and see if anyone
has been hacking at them.

How is the modem set up to your requirements? Or is it one supplied by
your ISP with the settings flashed in?

--
*The older you get, the better you realize you were.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

I assume that the box gives an IP address to a computer connected to it?
What address does it give and is it public or private IP range?

FYI, My DSL box (Speedstream 4100 supplied by AT&T) will "pass through" one
public IP address, but also does NAT if I assign static private addresses to
other computers on my inside house network. If I assign computers in the
192.168.0.0/24 subnet (usable addresses are 192.168.0.2-254 with subnet mask
255.255.255.0 and DGW 192.168.0.1), then I can open a HTTP window to the DSL
modem by using http://192.168.0.1 . This page allows me to configure the
modem and also see statistics. YMMV.

Bob


"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 30 May 2008 23:55:10 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Meat Plow wrote:
I wonder what parameters they measure that the router test prog can't?

Don't know. My modem is a Speedstream 5130 and separate from my pc by a
router so I can't access that data.

Don't see why a router should make any difference to that.

Well I guess not but I should have mentioned the modem has no web
interface to garner any stats from. And unless I'm missing some other
way to connect to it there isn't any besides maybe being able to do it via
it's MAC address if connected directly to the PC via the PPPoE WAN
miniport. I should toss the model number into Google and see if anyone has
been hacking at them.


However I would have to assume the tech's diagnostics dove deeper into
it as he was on the phone with another tech. He also had some pager
device that gave him a security code via satellite to allow him to log
into whatever he logged into using my connection.

All you can really test is the line status. Everything after it depends
on so many variables.

Yeh I suppose your right, I admittedly know little about the carrier side
of DSL.

Bob Shuman wrote:

I assume that the box gives an IP address to a computer connected to it?
What address does it give and is it public or private IP range?

FYI, My DSL box (Speedstream 4100 supplied by AT&T) will "pass through" one
public IP address, but also does NAT if I assign static private addresses to
other computers on my inside house network. If I assign computers in the
192.168.0.0/24 subnet (usable addresses are 192.168.0.2-254 with subnet mask
255.255.255.0 and DGW 192.168.0.1), then I can open a HTTP window to the DSL
modem by using http://192.168.0.1 . This page allows me to configure the
modem and also see statistics. YMMV.

Bob


"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 30 May 2008 23:55:10 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


In article ,
Meat Plow wrote:

I wonder what parameters they measure that the router test prog can't?

Don't know. My modem is a Speedstream 5130 and separate from my pc by a
router so I can't access that data.

Don't see why a router should make any difference to that.

Well I guess not but I should have mentioned the modem has no web
interface to garner any stats from. And unless I'm missing some other
way to connect to it there isn't any besides maybe being able to do it via
it's MAC address if connected directly to the PC via the PPPoE WAN
miniport. I should toss the model number into Google and see if anyone has
been hacking at them.


However I would have to assume the tech's diagnostics dove deeper into
it as he was on the phone with another tech. He also had some pager
device that gave him a security code via satellite to allow him to log
into whatever he logged into using my connection.

All you can really test is the line status. Everything after it depends
on so many variables.

Yeh I suppose your right, I admittedly know little about the carrier side
of DSL.

Which is common and also note that sometimes you need to specify a
higher power number.




http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

Meat Plow wrote:

On Fri, 30 May 2008 23:55:10 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Meat Plow wrote:
I wonder what parameters they measure that the router test prog can't?

Don't know. My modem is a Speedstream 5130 and separate from my pc by a
router so I can't access that data.

Don't see why a router should make any difference to that.

Well I guess not but I should have mentioned the modem has no web
interface to garner any stats from. And unless I'm missing some other
way to connect to it there isn't any besides maybe being able to do it via
it's MAC address if connected directly to the PC via the PPPoE WAN
miniport. I should toss the model number into Google and see if anyone has
been hacking at them.


However I would have to assume the tech's diagnostics dove deeper into
it as he was on the phone with another tech. He also had some pager
device that gave him a security code via satellite to allow him to log
into whatever he logged into using my connection.

All you can really test is the line status. Everything after it depends
on so many variables.

Yeh I suppose your right, I admittedly know little about the carrier side
of DSL.


Some have a tiny webserver to report system status. My cable modem uses
192.168.100.1

Name
WebSTAR DPC2100
Modem Serial Number
201455763
Cable Modem MAC Address
**:**:**:**:**:**
Hardware Version
2.0
Software Version
v2.0.2r1244-050319
Receive Power Level
-2.2 dBmV
Transmit Power Level
35.5 dBmV
Cable Modem Status
Operational

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Each is different ... it depends on the manufacturer. Use Google to search
for the make and model and then find the management IP address and subnet
mask, then set your computer to be in the same subnet and with the same mask
and connect to it directly. Most have web browser interfaces at the
management address, others only allow telnet, the most secure only allow
https or ssh. My info was an example to help you understand. Good luck.

Bob

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 31 May 2008 13:39:06 -0500, Bob Shuman wrote:

I assume that the box gives an IP address to a computer connected to it?
What address does it give and is it public or private IP range?

FYI, My DSL box (Speedstream 4100 supplied by AT&T) will "pass through"
one
public IP address, but also does NAT if I assign static private addresses
to
other computers on my inside house network. If I assign computers in the
192.168.0.0/24 subnet (usable addresses are 192.168.0.2-254 with subnet
mask
255.255.255.0 and DGW 192.168.0.1), then I can open a HTTP window to the
DSL
modem by using http://192.168.0.1 . This page allows me to configure the
modem and also see statistics. YMMV.

Bob

Yeh my modem has advanced management at that address but my lan is 1.1
so it can't talk to 0.1.

On Sat, 31 May 2008 23:21:58 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
put finger to keyboard and composed:

Some have a tiny webserver to report system status. My cable modem uses
192.168.100.1

Name
WebSTAR DPC2100
Modem Serial Number
201455763
Cable Modem MAC Address
**:**:**:**:**:**
Hardware Version
2.0
Software Version
v2.0.2r1244-050319
Receive Power Level
-2.2 dBmV
Transmit Power Level
35.5 dBmV
Cable Modem Status
Operational

This is what my DLink modem tells me:
http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/DSL...DSL_Params.htm

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.