blueman wrote:
Tony Hwang writes:

Hi,
IMO, your local UPS delivery person made a mistake not HF.
Tony


Agreed... but Harbor Freight has contracted with UPS as their agent
and therefore morally and legally bears responsibility for making
things right.

I never said that HF is doing anything illegal... just that their
resolution policy is not customer friendly and puts all the burden on
the customer.

For what it's worth...

I had an order totally obliterated by FedEx Ground. My package even
contained things that weren't mine, such as, GET THIS, a spray can of
pure silicone. Just what I want in a wood shop! G

After contacting a very nice person at customer service, the order was
reshipped that day via a different carrier, and a call tag was sent for
the damaged package.

Oh, that was Lee Valley. G

I've had a similar experience with Tower Hobbies after UPS destroyed a 4
foot long box of balsa wood. Tower TOTALLY took the ball back, ran with
it, and provided me with a satisfactory ball.

UPS was chosen by Harbor Freight to deliver the package, it's up to HF
to make good on the deal and then take it up with their subcontractor.
I had a similar negative experience when asking HF to follow up on a
long overdue package.

Barry

"Glenna Rose" wrote in message
news:fc.003d094101e08cc33b9aca0017f1236a.1e08cd5@p mug.org...

Yes, absolutely check with UPS. They are not in the habit of leaving
things without a signature unless the package so stipulates.

That used to be the way it worked but it's not anymore. I remember the days
when the package had to stipulate "no signature required", but now
everything I receive just gets dropped on the porch. It's not a problem for
me and we receive a couple of UPS deliveries every week with no real
problems over years of service, but I do know that the old days of them not
leaving a package without a signature are gone. Today the shipper has to
stipulate a required signature.

I suspect it
did not get shipped UPS, if shipped at all. If they did, indeed, ship it,
they (or you) can print a complete tracking of when it was put into UPS's
"hands" and when UPS delivered it.

I've had the tracking system work and I've had it not work. I've never
tracked a lost package (truly lost - never to be seen again), but I have
tracked delayed shipments and as other posters have said, I've found spotty
accuracy in the information that is available to the recipient - either
directly from UPS customer service, or via their web sites.

In over 30 years of dealing with UPS,
I've never had a package lost or mishandled and through my home business
years ago and where I work now, we are talking about thousands of packages
through those years. We ship many, many packages UPS every week. The only
time we have had a problem was with USPS!


Oh man - you gotta try Airborne - or what ever they're called these days.
That's a real treat. Talk about shipments that are guaranteed not to
arrive...
--

-Mike-

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 02:20:59 GMT, blueman wrote:


Agreed (we just moved into the neighborhood)... but still Harbor
Freight seems to be doing the bare minimum (at most) to resolve this
situation.

And he paid the bare minimum he could. Sounds symmetrical
to me :-)

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 04:11:51 GMT, Tony Hwang wrote:

Hi,
I often feel like i serve them not the other way around.
Hellooooo, good old days.
Tony


In the "good old days" the price people paid included
a higher markup. And "compensation" to high-end
executives wasn't out of line with the people doing the
actual work.

I don't order too much from mail order (email order?) places because of this.
I would rather pay a little more and visit the old brick and mortar. Not only
do I get to examine stuff before I buy, but the friendly staff and a free cup
of coffee help!

Grant



Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

wrote in message
They showed no empathy and refused to even admit that they or their
agent (UPS) may have done something wrong here (like leaving large
boxes of expensive metal tools out on an exposed porch in the snow)

You can't blame HF for the policies of UPS. Why not contact UPS yourself
and put in a claim? Fact is, once UPS picks up the package, the title to
the goods transfers to you. HF has no obligation to do anything.

I would not buy from HF anyway, but it has nothing to do with your problem
with UPS.

In article fc.003d094101e08cc33b9aca0017f1236a.1e08cd5@pmug. org,
(Glenna Rose) wrote:


Yes, absolutely check with UPS. They are not in the habit of leaving
things without a signature unless the package so stipulates.

snip

UPS stopped getting signatures here several years ago. UPS offered good
safe service in the past but not any more.

My first problem with them was about 10 years ago when I bought a
classic Nikon F camera and it was shipped to me via UPS. It arrived
sooner than expected, and I was still out of town but unlike past policy
they didn't keep the box until they could deliver it to a person. I
found a notice that it had been left by the side of my house - right
beside the garbage can. It was long gone when I got home, and I never
found out if it was stolen or went to the dump with the garbage. UPS
investigated and eventually I got my money back, but the camera could
not be replaced (I never found another one in such good condition at a
good price). The UPS supervisor I talked to said that getting signatures
was more expensive than paying off a few claims for lost packages.

These days UPS not only doesn't get a signature, they don't even knock
on the door. Several times I have had packages sit in the rain outside
when I was at home and this includes some packages that specifically
required a signature. After many many problems with them, I avoid UPS
whenever possible.

If you continue to get good service from UPS that's great, but watch out.

PDX David

In article ,
Jane & David wrote:

In article fc.003d094101e08cc33b9aca0017f1236a.1e08cd5@pmug. org,
(Glenna Rose) wrote:


Yes, absolutely check with UPS. They are not in the habit of leaving
things without a signature unless the package so stipulates.

snip

UPS stopped getting signatures here several years ago. UPS offered good
safe service in the past but not any more.

My first problem with them was about 10 years ago when I bought a
classic Nikon F camera and it was shipped to me via UPS. It arrived
sooner than expected, and I was still out of town but unlike past policy
they didn't keep the box until they could deliver it to a person. I
found a notice that it had been left by the side of my house - right
beside the garbage can. It was long gone when I got home, and I never
found out if it was stolen or went to the dump with the garbage. UPS
investigated and eventually I got my money back, but the camera could
not be replaced (I never found another one in such good condition at a
good price). The UPS supervisor I talked to said that getting signatures
was more expensive than paying off a few claims for lost packages.

These days UPS not only doesn't get a signature, they don't even knock
on the door. Several times I have had packages sit in the rain outside
when I was at home and this includes some packages that specifically
required a signature. After many many problems with them, I avoid UPS
whenever possible.

If you continue to get good service from UPS that's great, but watch out.

PDX David



I should point out that my experience is with UPS deliveries to a home
address. When delivering to a business where the driver can walk in and
find a person, there should be very few problems.

PDX David

writes:
These days UPS not only doesn't get a signature, they don't even knock
on the door. Several times I have had packages sit in the rain outside
when I was at home and this includes some packages that specifically
required a signature. After many many problems with them, I avoid UPS
whenever possible.
If you continue to get good service from UPS that's great, but watch out.
PDX David

Wow. That just hasn't been my experience. I've always used UPS because
they are so much more reliable than the post office. Our driver(s) always
knock and get signatures (or leave a tag for later pickup) unless I've
left a note directing them to leave the expected package. Because I've
always had a covered porch, left in the rain hasn't been a problem.

It sounds like my good experiences have not been reflective of those of
others. In your case, you live just a few miles from me (unless that's
Portland, Maine, which likely doesn't have an international airport), just
across the river.


It sounds like more and more, the only way to get good service is to be
there face-to-face and, even then, it's questionable. Such a sad state of
things. :-(

Glenna

Sounds like a case of misplaced anger. I've never purchased from HF,
but by your own admission, UPS is responsible for your lost items; not HF.

David

wrote:
I made the mistake of placing a $300+ order with Harbor Freight just
before the Holidays.

Items never arrived. I tried calling customer service but got repeated
busy signals.

Finally, today, I was told that item was delivered last week and left
on the "porch" -- the porch however is in clear open view to the
public and covered in snow.. (we live in northern New England)

Rather than take responsibility for it and attempt to quickly correct
the error, the customer service person offered the following non-solution:
- Wait another 8-10 business days for them to follow up with UPS
- Then, order again and wait another 10-14 days for item to be
reordered and redelivered (assuming of course that items are still
even in stock)

In all (at best) it will take more than 2 months for them to fulfill my
order.

The customner service droid and supervisor said that is the "policy"
and they were not open to any other solutions, even if I was willing
to back it up with my credit card.

They showed no empathy and refused to even admit that they or their
agent (UPS) may have done something wrong here (like leaving large
boxes of expensive metal tools out on an exposed porch in the snow)

I guess there is a reason for their cheap prices...

If you have had any similar negative customer service experiences with
Harbor Freight, please feel free to share them so that the next newbie
can be fully "cavet emptor" before purchasing.


I WOULD RECOMMEND AVOIDING HARBOR FREIGHT LIKE THE PLAGUE!

"Sounds like a case of misplaced anger. I've never purchased from HF,

but by your own admission, UPS is responsible for your lost items; not
HF."

I wouldn't be so quick to assume it's UPS's fault. As I posted
previously, I know I've
received UPS shipments where they would not leave it without a
signature. I believe
this is still an option, which apparently the shipper in this case
chose not to make.

Second, I think the OP's main point was not that it happened, or who's
fault it was,
but that he needs what he bought and the vendor is unwilling to do
anything to get
something to him now, even if he backs up a second order with a credit
card. Now
that is just **** poor customer service.

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 07:09:40 -0800, Jane & David
wrote:

These days UPS not only doesn't get a signature, they don't even knock
on the door. Several times I have had packages sit in the rain outside
when I was at home and this includes some packages that specifically
required a signature. After many many problems with them, I avoid UPS
whenever possible.

Here, UPS still gets an electronic signature on every package or notes
that they left it. If you want to make sure you get packages without
having them left somewhere be sure to add shipping instructions (i.e.
Deliver to North entrance only - Signature required), and the first
time they don't follow the instructions call the head office and the
BBB and complain like crazy. I've gone out of my way to get to know
the regular UPS, FedEx and USPS guys here. They now bring things to
the house and we don't have any problems. During the holidays I check
all possible places a package might end up every day, since substitute
drivers are prone to taking shortcuts. I also always get tracking
numbers (for UPS and FedEx) and follow the package as best I can so
that I know when to expect it.

For the OP, HF has handled several complaints from me very well. I've
never tried during a holiday period, but I've bought a lot of stray
junk from them here and there and had a few that have had to go back
or that have never arrived. They have invariably taken care of the
problem, although often with considerable delay. Of course I'm lucky
and I always treat the low-level drone like he was the president of
the company "This is my problem, sir", "Thank you for your help, sir",
"I hope you have a good day, sir". They seem to like it and it doesn't
cost me a cent.

YMMV

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

wrote in message
...
"TURTLE" writes:
wrote in message
Thgis is Turtle.

Boy Cott , you must not know how to deal with mail order tool companys. Here
is
how you go at it.

1) Call them back Harbor Freight and get a tracking number from the UPS
company and check the details of the delivery. If it has been already
delivered
and you did not get it for what ever reason.
1A) call Harbor freight back and cancel all order as of now. 1B) Then Call
your
Credit card company and 1C) have all charges made payiable to harbor freight
cancelled. 1D) Then order the needed tool from another company or call,
Harbor
Freight back and completely make another order for the needed tools but make
sure the first order is totally cancelled or don't do any business with them
till the first order is cancelled completely.

Now Harbor freight should not have charged your credit card until the day the
tools was shipped. So you should have not paid for them yet on your credit
card
bill. If they have it already billed to you. you should object to paying it
till
the matter is solved.

Also when ordering tools from the cheapest supplier in the business don't
expect
Premium Service on problem like this.

TURTLE

I agree with you about how to get money back; however, I am not really
worried that I won't eventually get my money back or the parts
delivere; rather, I just want to fix the problem.

Other online places seem to make the extra effort to make their
customers whole. I am not asking them to lose money or take risks
here. Just asking them to send out another order in parallel with
their (slow) resolution process. If they are worried about fraud risk,
then I am happy to authorize them to charge my credit card if their
investigation proves otherwise.

They just don't seem to have any flexibility.

This is Turtle.

You pay a higher mark up on tools from other companys and this higher mark up
come better service. If you want a company with 110% quality of service don't
use the discount companys to buy tools from. When you say discount on prices
your saing your getting a discount on service that comes with it. Low Profit
margin , Discount company, Discount service, and low mark up price all go hand
and hand with each other. if you expect quality your going to have to remove
thje discount from the name of the company to get this.

Now you wanting to change a discount company's policy is right next to getting
pease on the earth without war or starving people. It will not happen !

TURTLE

Oh come on!!! Lee Valley is a great vendor and provides great customer
service. But they charge a premium price for that. Harbor Freight is a
pretty crappy vendor who provides basic less than steller customer
service but charges low prices. Anybody doing business with Harbor
Freight expecting Lee Vally service is living in la-la land. Anyone
paying Lee Valley prices but getting Harbor Freight service is getting
ripped off. I think we all have a pretty good idea of what we are doing
when we buy stuff from Harbor Freight - getting cheap stuff at cheap
prices with bare bones service. I have to go now I am getting my Harbor
Freight order ready...

Dave Hall

Notify your charge card company that the goods have not shown up and ask for
a charge back. That will get Harbor Freights attention.


wrote in message
...
I made the mistake of placing a $300+ order with Harbor Freight just
before the Holidays.

Items never arrived. I tried calling customer service but got repeated
busy signals.

Finally, today, I was told that item was delivered last week and left
on the "porch" -- the porch however is in clear open view to the
public and covered in snow.. (we live in northern New England)

Rather than take responsibility for it and attempt to quickly correct
the error, the customer service person offered the following non-solution:
- Wait another 8-10 business days for them to follow up with UPS
- Then, order again and wait another 10-14 days for item to be
reordered and redelivered (assuming of course that items are still
even in stock)

In all (at best) it will take more than 2 months for them to fulfill my
order.

The customner service droid and supervisor said that is the "policy"
and they were not open to any other solutions, even if I was willing
to back it up with my credit card.

They showed no empathy and refused to even admit that they or their
agent (UPS) may have done something wrong here (like leaving large
boxes of expensive metal tools out on an exposed porch in the snow)

I guess there is a reason for their cheap prices...

If you have had any similar negative customer service experiences with
Harbor Freight, please feel free to share them so that the next newbie
can be fully "cavet emptor" before purchasing.


I WOULD RECOMMEND AVOIDING HARBOR FREIGHT LIKE THE PLAGUE!

UPS policy is to settle with the sender so it is Harbor Freight's problem to
fix.


"David" wrote in message
...
Sounds like a case of misplaced anger. I've never purchased from HF, but
by your own admission, UPS is responsible for your lost items; not HF.

David

wrote:
I made the mistake of placing a $300+ order with Harbor Freight just
before the Holidays.

Items never arrived. I tried calling customer service but got repeated
busy signals.

Finally, today, I was told that item was delivered last week and left
on the "porch" -- the porch however is in clear open view to the
public and covered in snow.. (we live in northern New England)

Rather than take responsibility for it and attempt to quickly correct
the error, the customer service person offered the following
non-solution:
- Wait another 8-10 business days for them to follow up with UPS
- Then, order again and wait another 10-14 days for item to be
reordered and redelivered (assuming of course that items are still
even in stock)

In all (at best) it will take more than 2 months for them to fulfill my
order.

The customner service droid and supervisor said that is the "policy"
and they were not open to any other solutions, even if I was willing
to back it up with my credit card.

They showed no empathy and refused to even admit that they or their
agent (UPS) may have done something wrong here (like leaving large
boxes of expensive metal tools out on an exposed porch in the snow)

I guess there is a reason for their cheap prices...

If you have had any similar negative customer service experiences with
Harbor Freight, please feel free to share them so that the next newbie
can be fully "cavet emptor" before purchasing.


I WOULD RECOMMEND AVOIDING HARBOR FREIGHT LIKE THE PLAGUE!

I don't see Amazon or Dell (never bought anything from or even know
what Newegg might be) to be bottom feeder discounters like I percieve
Harbor Freight. In fact I seldom see Amazon being more that a percent
or two below local sellers and lots of folks significantly undersell
Dell. Therefore to me comparing the customer service levels of higher
priced sellers like Dell to low price sellers like HF is less than
valid.

Dave Hall wrote:
Oh come on!!! Lee Valley is a great vendor and provides great customer
service. But they charge a premium price for that. Harbor Freight is a
pretty crappy vendor who provides basic less than steller customer
service but charges low prices.

If HF wasn't making a decent profit, they wouldn't have lasted as long
as they have. Some HF items are probably throwaway on a wholesale
level. Major shippers have good access to the right local people at
their shipper. They can choose to insure the package for extremely low
costs, but often choose to self insure.

I've also received stellar problem solving service from Tower Hobbies, a
deep discount, mail order supplier. We can toss Lee Valley out and
compare to tower, if you'd like. The one reship I needed from them was
$30 of balsa wood. Based on a $15 wholesale cost, the box, labor, and
the additional shipping charges, they probably lost money in an attempt
to keep me happy. But they did it.

At typical Chinese factory prices, HF probably runs at a HIGHER margin
than Lee Valley! My wife has actually gotten good service from a vendor
called "Oriental Trading Post" who sells crap that literally costs less
than a penny retail. G

Barry

glenna writes:

In your case, you live just a few miles from me (unless that's
Portland, Maine, which likely doesn't have an international airport), just
across the river.

Why wouldn't Portland, ME have an international airport? It's a neat little
city and an IA isn't much of a distinguishing factor, since all it requires is
flights coming in and going out to a foreign country. Canadian planes are a
hop, skip and plop from Maine.


Charlie Self
"One of the common denominators I have found is that expectations rise above
that which is expected." George W. Bush

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 11:27:23 GMT, "Red Neckerson"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
"Dr. Hardcrab" writes:
You have a problem somewhere else. I have been dealing with Harbor
freight
for over 20 years and have had no problems whatsoever. I'm not saying you
CAN'T have a problem with them, but it just sounds like a problem with
the
transporter....

Yes, but the test of good customer service is how they treat you when
something goes wrong. I have had incredible experiences with Dell,
Amazon, Lands End, Newegg, etc. If there is ever a problem, they ship
out replacements the next day -- they don't make you wait for months.

Again, I am *not* saying that the original problem is HF's fault --
just that when something goes wrong they don't jump to correct it.

So this ****ed you off so much that you had to go on a vengeance campaign by
posting your name as boycott@harborfreight,com and telling the world not to
buy anything from them just because they didn't jump up and kiss your ass??

You need to get a f*cking life, loser......

roflmao (while trying to wipe the coffee off my monitor)


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 08:36:44 -0800, (Glenna Rose)
wrote:

Wow. That just hasn't been my experience. I've always used UPS because
they are so much more reliable than the post office. Our driver(s) always
knock and get signatures (or leave a tag for later pickup) unless I've
left a note directing them to leave the expected package. Because I've
always had a covered porch, left in the rain hasn't been a problem.

Oh, way back when I was regularly receiving things from UPS, they were
a problem. In fact, the driver routinely left my packages at another
person's house. Why? We never could figure it out since the street
names and numbers weren't even close, but he would just drop whatever
he felt like there and I'd have to fight to have him go get it again.
It usually took an extra day or two for them to correct their
mistakes, once I got done fighting with them.

wrote
Well it did happen (as per both HF and UPS).

My only issue is with the strength of HF customer service not the legal
responsibility of who is at fault (obviously UPS). I am used to online
discounters in other areas (e.g., Amazon, Dell, Newegg) going beyond
strictly legal minimums to help their customers. The question is how
good a customer service experience is HF creating and whether the
deficiencies are worth it given the "discounted" pricing...

Obviously you must already have the tracking #, otherwise UPS couldn't tell
you anything. But, you didn't mention you have the tracking #, if you don't
have it, you are being misinformed. Since the package value was over the
initial $100 insurance provided by UPS on all packages, HF should have
insured it for the value. I can't imagine even HF sending items that had to
have additional insurance, without a signature confirmation/acceptance.
Something just doesn't sound right about your experience.

mp wrote:
They showed no empathy and refused to even admit that they or their
agent (UPS) may have done something wrong here (like leaving large
boxes of expensive metal tools out on an exposed porch in the snow)


If you didn't receive the items, and presumably you paid by credit card,
call the credit card company and get them to do a chargeback. HF and UPS
can sort it out amongst themselves.



Yeah that'll work. First thing they ask is did you order
the item. you say yes. they say work it out with who you
ordered from! Been there, done that.

"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...
mp wrote:
They showed no empathy and refused to even admit that they or their
agent (UPS) may have done something wrong here (like leaving large
boxes of expensive metal tools out on an exposed porch in the snow)


If you didn't receive the items, and presumably you paid by credit card,
call the credit card company and get them to do a chargeback. HF and
UPS
can sort it out amongst themselves.



Yeah that'll work. First thing they ask is did you order
the item. you say yes. they say work it out with who you
ordered from! Been there, done that.

Not with American Express.

--

-Mike-

If you didn't receive the items, and presumably you paid by credit card,
call the credit card company and get them to do a chargeback. HF and UPS
can sort it out amongst themselves.

Yeah that'll work. First thing they ask is did you order the item. you
say yes. they say work it out with who you ordered from! Been there,
done that.

I've had to do two chargebacks in the last 18 months with Visa. I called and
reported that I had not received the order and that the vendor was either
unhelpful or uncommunicative. Visa faxed me a form that I signed and faxed
back, and the problem was taken care of. Easy and painless.

That used to be the way it worked but it's not anymore. I remember the
days
when the package had to stipulate "no signature required", but now
everything I receive just gets dropped on the porch.

I once had UPS deliver a $5k shipment of server ram. I got into my car and
was about to drive a away when a neighbour saw me and pointed to my front
tire. Thinking I had a flat, I got out to look. There was the box of ram,
right under my front tire. The vendor's shipping policy with UPS is
signature required for every shipment. I was home at the time, and the UPS
driver didn't even bother to knock on the door. But he was considerate
enough to hide the shipment where it wouldn't readily be seen by passers by.

Why wouldn't Portland, ME have an international airport? It's a neat
little
city and an IA isn't much of a distinguishing factor, since all it requires
is
flights coming in and going out to a foreign country. Canadian planes are a
hop, skip and plop from Maine.

Portland, ME not only has an international airport, the facility's offical
name is Portland International Jetport.
http://www.portlandjetport.org/
However, I don't believe they have any regularly scheduled direct overseas
flights via major carriers. I'm pretty sure they do have flights to and
from the Maritime provinces.

Lee


--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"

otforme writes:
glenna writes:

In your case, you live just a few miles from me (unless that's
Portland, Maine, which likely doesn't have an international airport),
just
across the river.

Why wouldn't Portland, ME have an international airport? It's a neat
little
city and an IA isn't much of a distinguishing factor, since all it
requires is
flights coming in and going out to a foreign country. Canadian planes are
a
hop, skip and plop from Maine.

Ouch.

Sorry, Charlie. (Gawd, that sounds like a tuna commercial.)

PDX is the designation for Portland International Airport which was my
reference, and really only meant that there would not be two PDX
designations.

I am, however, surprised to learn that Portland, Maine, has a designated
international airport. What is its airport designation (as SEA for
Sea/Tac in Seattle, Washington; PDX for Portland, Oregon, LAX for Los
Angeles [also international designated], etc.)? I guess I think of the
area as being more rural; read too many old novels about the beauty of the
Maine countryside perhaps.

Perhaps the international designations were made in a time when Portland,
Maine, was smaller. I don't happen to have any of my ex's Jepson Manuals
to look at, or not that I could find if I do have them packed in a box
somewhere that has been unopened for 20+ years. (That '71 Chev is going
to be making many trips to the dump come summer!)

Glenna
(who still bets PDX David is referring
to Portland, Oregon, near the mighty
Columbia River, not Portland, Maine)

Glenna responds:


PDX is the designation for Portland International Airport which was my
reference, and really only meant that there would not be two PDX
designations.

I am, however, surprised to learn that Portland, Maine, has a designated
international airport. What is its airport designation (as SEA for
Sea/Tac in Seattle, Washington; PDX for Portland, Oregon, LAX for Los
Angeles [also international designated], etc.)? I guess I think of the
area as being more rural; read too many old novels about the beauty of the
Maine countryside perhaps.

Maine is gorgeous: if you ever get a chance, see Acadia National Park. I'm not
really sure Portland has an international airport, but it's a possibility. I
used to visit Maine regularly when my kid sister was alive--she lived in a
place called East Blue Hill--and discovered, to my surprise, that Bangor
Airport was international, even though it has about as many "gates" as Roanoke
(which isn't), VA airport.

And I'd bet you're right about the letter designation. It is very, very
unlikely an outfit, even one as inefficient as the federal government, would
assign PDX to two airports. But, hey, they hit Los Angeles with LAX, and did it
long after Ex-Lax came on the market.

Charlie Self
"One of the common denominators I have found is that expectations rise above
that which is expected." George W. Bush

" If you didn't receive the items, and presumably you paid by credit
card,
call the credit card company and get them to do a chargeback. HF and
UPS
can sort it out amongst themselves.



Yeah that'll work. First thing they ask is did you order
the item. you say yes. they say work it out with who you
ordered from! Been there, done that."



If that was your exper with your credit card company, I'd get a new
one. I have a Citibank
Visa and they have been excellent in resolving disputes with vendors
for me both times when
I got them involved. In both cases, I got a full refund.

In this case, it's premature to get the credit card company involved,
as the vendor is not refusing
to fix it or not responding, just indicating that their half-assed
process takes a couple weeks to do it.

Glenna
(who still bets PDX David is referring
to Portland, Oregon, near the mighty
Columbia River, not Portland, Maine)


Right. There is one PDX, but a lot of Davids posting here sometimes. I
mostly lurk out here in PDX, Stumptowm, Puddletown. The Rain Planet,
Slabtown, River City, Little Beirut, The Rose City, Moscow on the
Willamette, Portland. We have an "international" airport, but I've
always gone through customs in Seattle when traveling. I guess we have a
direct flight or two to Tokyo and a few to Mexico - most everything else
goes through somewhere bigger.

Not that anyone is likely to be interested, but we were named Portland
by a Maine immigrant after a deciding coin toss way back when. Had the
coin come other side up we would have been Boston, Oregon.

Back to lurking.

PDX David

Is this still about Harbor Freight :-)

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 00:59:10 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"
wrote:

Yeah that'll work. First thing they ask is did you order
the item. you say yes. they say work it out with who you
ordered from! Been there, done that.

All you have to do is say they refuse to work with you and you can get
the amount charged back to your card. It's simple.

"Jane & David" wrote in message
...

My UPS guy is great. While he doesn't ask for a signature he
always rings the doorbell when he drops off a package. I work out
of my garage workshop and I am in clear view of the street with
the door open. I only average one or two deliveries a month but
the UPS driver always honks and waves as he drives by every day.
nice guy and good service. Maybe you should add a roof to your
porch to keep packages out of the rain.

Bruce

These days UPS not only doesn't get a signature, they don't even
knock
on the door. Several times I have had packages sit in the rain
outside
when I was at home and this includes some packages that specifically
required a signature. After many many problems with them, I avoid
UPS
whenever possible.
PDX David

I've placed at least a dozen orders with HF over the last couple of
years. The shipping has always been faster than promised and the
items have always arrived in perfect condition. There have been
a couple of occasions where the item ordered either broke or
wasn't as promised and one call to customer service took care of
the problem on both occasions. One time my money was refunded
and the other time a replacement item was on my porch within 3
days. On both occasions the problem was solved without me
having to return the items in question and the customer service
people were as friendly as could be. The items were fairly
inexpensive, (about 10 or less). There have been other times
where the description of the items on their website was vague so
I called to get more info. They were very helpful and got me the
info as professionally as Lee Valley or any of the "High end" stores
have done for me. Try getting *that* from Amazon. Do they
even have a phone number to call? No business is going to be
perfect all the time and I've found the HF's mail order service is
just as friendly as they are at the local HF store in my town.
It's hard to believe that someone would get this worked up over
HF when the problem most likely was with UPS. It's not like HF
has refused to help. I'm sure they're very busy this time of year
and following up with UPS to make sure you're not trying to rip
them off takes time. I'm not saying you're a crook, but they do
have to take steps to keep from getting ripped off. Good luck.

Bruce

wrote in message
...
I made the mistake of placing a $300+ order with Harbor Freight just
before the Holidays.

I guess there is a reason for their cheap prices...

If you have had any similar negative customer service experiences
with
Harbor Freight, please feel free to share them so that the next
newbie
can be fully "cavet emptor" before purchasing.


I WOULD RECOMMEND AVOIDING HARBOR FREIGHT LIKE THE PLAGUE!

I have ordered various things from them from time to time with some
slight problems. They had always rectified it until the last time 3
months ago. I ordered a huge silver tarp. It never showed. After 2
months of waiting they told me to wait another week or 2. I tried to get
it resolved over and over. According to UPS it was never picked up.
According to HF it was UPS's problem. UPS wouldn't take a claim since
they didn't pick up the package. HF wouldn't ...UPS wouldn't...
I called my credit card company and refused to pay the $120. Then I
called HF back and tried to work it with them again. I finally got them
to send another, and when I received it they were paid. I never did
receive the original. I am wary about ordering again after all the times
they did stand behind their stuff, this time they really pushed me too far.

Bruce wrote:
I've placed at least a dozen orders with HF over the last couple of
years. The shipping has always been faster than promised and the
items have always arrived in perfect condition. There have been
a couple of occasions where the item ordered either broke or
wasn't as promised and one call to customer service took care of
the problem on both occasions. One time my money was refunded
and the other time a replacement item was on my porch within 3
days. On both occasions the problem was solved without me
having to return the items in question and the customer service
people were as friendly as could be. The items were fairly
inexpensive, (about 10 or less). There have been other times
where the description of the items on their website was vague so
I called to get more info. They were very helpful and got me the
info as professionally as Lee Valley or any of the "High end" stores
have done for me. Try getting *that* from Amazon. Do they
even have a phone number to call? No business is going to be
perfect all the time and I've found the HF's mail order service is
just as friendly as they are at the local HF store in my town.
It's hard to believe that someone would get this worked up over
HF when the problem most likely was with UPS. It's not like HF
has refused to help. I'm sure they're very busy this time of year
and following up with UPS to make sure you're not trying to rip
them off takes time. I'm not saying you're a crook, but they do
have to take steps to keep from getting ripped off. Good luck.

Bruce

wrote in message
...

I made the mistake of placing a $300+ order with Harbor Freight just
before the Holidays.

I guess there is a reason for their cheap prices...

If you have had any similar negative customer service experiences

with

Harbor Freight, please feel free to share them so that the next

newbie

can be fully "cavet emptor" before purchasing.


I WOULD RECOMMEND AVOIDING HARBOR FREIGHT LIKE THE PLAGUE!

"Dave Hall" writes:
I don't see Amazon or Dell (never bought anything from or even know
what Newegg might be) to be bottom feeder discounters like I percieve
Harbor Freight. In fact I seldom see Amazon being more that a percent
or two below local sellers and lots of folks significantly undersell
Dell. Therefore to me comparing the customer service levels of higher
priced sellers like Dell to low price sellers like HF is less than
valid.

Newegg is a low price computer & consumer electronics vendor with a
stellar reputation for customer service.

I regularly find that sale prices at Amazon and Dell are the same or
better than the lowest priced (non-gray market) competitor. For Dell,
there are 10-25% off sales nearly every day.

wrote:
" If you didn't receive the items, and presumably you paid by credit
card,

call the credit card company and get them to do a chargeback. HF and

UPS

can sort it out amongst themselves.




Yeah that'll work. First thing they ask is did you order
the item. you say yes. they say work it out with who you
ordered from! Been there, done that."



If that was your exper with your credit card company, I'd get a new
one. I have a Citibank
Visa and they have been excellent in resolving disputes with vendors
for me both times when
I got them involved. In both cases, I got a full refund.

In this case, it's premature to get the credit card company involved,
as the vendor is not refusing
to fix it or not responding, just indicating that their half-assed
process takes a couple weeks to do it.


I related my experience to several other card suppliers and
each said they would do the same thing. First you put the
dispute in writing to the card company, but you can't do
that until you 30 days after you tried resolving with the
screw up company. Glad your experience was good, I was just
grateful that I got all my money back after nearly 4 months
an inch of letters numerous e-mails, and telephone calls
to idiots that knew nothing. But then, I'll never purchase
anything from Dell again.

Brian Henderson wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 00:59:10 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"
wrote:


Yeah that'll work. First thing they ask is did you order
the item. you say yes. they say work it out with who you
ordered from! Been there, done that.


All you have to do is say they refuse to work with you and you can get
the amount charged back to your card. It's simple.

Nope. They didn't refuse. They were very cooperative just
incompetent about returning all the money. Three packages,
money for one was returned in two weeks, the rest dribbled.
Do you suppose that it was because they were Dell?

All you have to do is say they refuse to work with you and you can get
the amount charged back to your card. It's simple.

Nope. They didn't refuse. They were very cooperative just incompetent
about returning all the money. Three packages, money for one was returned
in two weeks, the rest dribbled. Do you suppose that it was because they
were Dell?

I believe he was referring to the credit card company, not the vendor.

mp wrote:
All you have to do is say they refuse to work with you and you can get
the amount charged back to your card. It's simple.

Nope. They didn't refuse. They were very cooperative just incompetent
about returning all the money. Three packages, money for one was returned
in two weeks, the rest dribbled. Do you suppose that it was because they
were Dell?


I believe he was referring to the credit card company, not the vendor.


He meant for me to tell the credit card company that the
vendor (Dell)refused to cooperate and the credit card
company would credit the amount. Nothing about that is
true! In the first place Dell was cooperating, just very
slow, and in the second place the credit card company
wouldn't get involved until I had exhausted all effort with
the vendor. So, I had a large charge on my card and was
told that I didn't have to pay it until the issue was
resolved (even says that in the fine print), but I didn't
believe that so I paid it. Later I found out that if I had
not payed it, I would have been charged late fees and
interest even if Dell did give me credit. Over a 4 month
period that would have amounted to a considerable amout
(especially since late fee charges are about $25 each month)
plus the interest rate would go up because of the late fee,
etc., etc. Resolution and getting you money back is not
always a simple matter.

"George E. Cawthon" wrote:

....
... So, I had a large charge on my card and was
told that I didn't have to pay it until the issue was
resolved (even says that in the fine print), but I didn't
believe that so I paid it. Later I found out that if I had
not payed it, I would have been charged late fees and
interest even if Dell did give me credit. ....

If you make a formal complaint to contest the charge, there are no fees
or interest on that portion of the charges.