On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 01:14:06 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"
wrote:

Nope. They didn't refuse. They were very cooperative just
incompetent about returning all the money. Three packages,
money for one was returned in two weeks, the rest dribbled.
Do you suppose that it was because they were Dell?

Actually, I was talking about Harbor Freight, not Dell. The original
poster said that HF refused to help, hence my suggestion to go back to
the CC company.

Assuming that the actual company does offer to reimburse you, then
complaining to the CC company isn't the way to go.

Duane Bozarth wrote:
"George E. Cawthon" wrote:

...

... So, I had a large charge on my card and was
told that I didn't have to pay it until the issue was
resolved (even says that in the fine print), but I didn't
believe that so I paid it. Later I found out that if I had
not payed it, I would have been charged late fees and
interest even if Dell did give me credit. ....


If you make a formal complaint to contest the charge, there are no fees
or interest on that portion of the charges.

Wanta bet? That's the way it is supposed to be, but if you
pay off all but the contested charge, they will charge
interest on the contested charge, and then the next month
when you don't pay it, they will charge a late fee and
interest, etc. You should get it back, but in the mean time
your credit rating goes down and the interest rate
increases. And you may not get it back and sure as hell the
credit rating and the interest rate won't change back. In
my case, one of the personnel flatly told me that I would
not get the interest and the late charges reversed.

But enough of this, that's my story. Others may have had
better responses from their credit card company. I no
longer trust a credit card. I use to also trust the legal
system until I sat in a traffic court (and other small legal
wrangles) for several hours on different days. What I saw
of the various judges, lying to and misleading defendants
about what they (the judge) might do, ruined whatever faith
I ever had in the courts. And of course the county public
defenders, were no help at all to the defendant. BTW, I'm
talking about cases where the defendant may have done
something illegal but very minor and was no threat to anyone
except maybe some policeman(woman)'s macho image. Oh, well,
better leave that one alone.

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 23:27:23 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"
wrote:

Duane Bozarth wrote:
"George E. Cawthon" wrote:

...

... So, I had a large charge on my card and was
told that I didn't have to pay it until the issue was
resolved (even says that in the fine print), but I didn't
believe that so I paid it. Later I found out that if I had
not payed it, I would have been charged late fees and
interest even if Dell did give me credit. ....


If you make a formal complaint to contest the charge, there are no fees
or interest on that portion of the charges.

Wanta bet? That's the way it is supposed to be, but if you
pay off all but the contested charge, they will charge
interest on the contested charge, and then the next month
when you don't pay it, they will charge a late fee and
interest, etc. You should get it back, but in the mean time
your credit rating goes down and the interest rate
increases. And you may not get it back and sure as hell the
credit rating and the interest rate won't change back. In
my case, one of the personnel flatly told me that I would
not get the interest and the late charges reversed.


So? If you have a disputed charge -- pay the full amount to the CC
company, the amount is still in dispute and should you prevail, you will
have a credit. If the adjudication crosses billing periods, you will not
have to worry about interest or late charges, and if your case is refused,
you won't have late charges or interest added to your account as you would
if you had not paid the amount.




+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Now we'll just use some glue to hold things in place until the brads dry

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

wrote:

If you have had any similar negative customer service experiences with
Harbor Freight, please feel free to share them so that the next newbie
can be fully "cavet emptor" before purchasing.

I had the opposite experience. I ordered a bunch of stuff. Two items were
missing from the order. I called them up, was on hold less time than
expected, and told the person the missing items. They arrived a few days
later.

I WOULD RECOMMEND AVOIDING HARBOR FREIGHT LIKE THE PLAGUE!

Now that a new HF store has opened between my home & church on many Sundays
I drop in on the way home from church. ;-)

-- Mark

Mark & Juanita wrote:
On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 23:27:23 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"
wrote:


Duane Bozarth wrote:

"George E. Cawthon" wrote:

...


... So, I had a large charge on my card and was
told that I didn't have to pay it until the issue was
resolved (even says that in the fine print), but I didn't
believe that so I paid it. Later I found out that if I had
not payed it, I would have been charged late fees and
interest even if Dell did give me credit. ....


If you make a formal complaint to contest the charge, there are no fees
or interest on that portion of the charges.

Wanta bet? That's the way it is supposed to be, but if you
pay off all but the contested charge, they will charge
interest on the contested charge, and then the next month
when you don't pay it, they will charge a late fee and
interest, etc. You should get it back, but in the mean time
your credit rating goes down and the interest rate
increases. And you may not get it back and sure as hell the
credit rating and the interest rate won't change back. In
my case, one of the personnel flatly told me that I would
not get the interest and the late charges reversed.



So? If you have a disputed charge -- pay the full amount to the CC
company, the amount is still in dispute and should you prevail, you will
have a credit. If the adjudication crosses billing periods, you will not
have to worry about interest or late charges, and if your case is refused,
you won't have late charges or interest added to your account as you would
if you had not paid the amount.




+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Now we'll just use some glue to hold things in place until the brads dry

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Right that is what I did. The only problem is when you need
an item right away, you pay for the one in dispute and buy
another. In my case that meant making a check out twice for
about $2,000. I had the money so it wasn't a big problem
that I didn't get all of my original $2000 back for 3
months. For someone on tight finances it could be difficult.

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 05:32:37 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"
wrote:

Mark & Juanita wrote:
.... snip

Wanta bet? That's the way it is supposed to be, but if you
pay off all but the contested charge, they will charge
interest on the contested charge, and then the next month
when you don't pay it, they will charge a late fee and
interest, etc. You should get it back, but in the mean time
your credit rating goes down and the interest rate
increases. And you may not get it back and sure as hell the
credit rating and the interest rate won't change back. In
my case, one of the personnel flatly told me that I would
not get the interest and the late charges reversed.



So? If you have a disputed charge -- pay the full amount to the CC
company, the amount is still in dispute and should you prevail, you will
have a credit. If the adjudication crosses billing periods, you will not
have to worry about interest or late charges, and if your case is refused,
you won't have late charges or interest added to your account as you would
if you had not paid the amount.


Right that is what I did. The only problem is when you need
an item right away, you pay for the one in dispute and buy
another. In my case that meant making a check out twice for
about $2,000. I had the money so it wasn't a big problem
that I didn't get all of my original $2000 back for 3
months. For someone on tight finances it could be difficult.

Agreed. The only plus side is that this means of payment at least
provides a mechanism for getting one's money back. Paying by check or
other means to such a company and you've got nothing.





+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Now we'll just use some glue to hold things in place until the brads dry

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

George E. Cawthon wrote:

Wanta bet? That's the way it is supposed to be, but if you pay off all
but the contested charge, they will charge interest on the contested
charge, and then the next month when you don't pay it, they will charge
a late fee and interest, etc. You should get it back, but in the mean
time your credit rating goes down and the interest rate increases.

Either you need a new credit card provider, you're not in the US, or
there is more to this story.

Barry

"George E. Cawthon" wrote:

Duane Bozarth wrote:
....
If you make a formal complaint to contest the charge, there are no fees
or interest on that portion of the charges.

Wanta bet? That's the way it is supposed to be, but ...

No, that's the way it is, by law (US Fair Credit Act). But only if you
make the complaint and follow up according to the rules are they
obliged.

Here's a link to a summary of the provisions of the Act...

http://www.creditinfocenter.com/card...html#Question4

Mark & Juanita wrote:
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 05:32:37 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"
wrote:


Mark & Juanita wrote:

... snip

Wanta bet? That's the way it is supposed to be, but if you
pay off all but the contested charge, they will charge
interest on the contested charge, and then the next month
when you don't pay it, they will charge a late fee and
interest, etc. You should get it back, but in the mean time
your credit rating goes down and the interest rate
increases. And you may not get it back and sure as hell the
credit rating and the interest rate won't change back. In
my case, one of the personnel flatly told me that I would
not get the interest and the late charges reversed.



So? If you have a disputed charge -- pay the full amount to the CC
company, the amount is still in dispute and should you prevail, you will
have a credit. If the adjudication crosses billing periods, you will not
have to worry about interest or late charges, and if your case is refused,
you won't have late charges or interest added to your account as you would
if you had not paid the amount.



Right that is what I did. The only problem is when you need
an item right away, you pay for the one in dispute and buy
another. In my case that meant making a check out twice for
about $2,000. I had the money so it wasn't a big problem
that I didn't get all of my original $2000 back for 3
months. For someone on tight finances it could be difficult.


Agreed. The only plus side is that this means of payment at least
provides a mechanism for getting one's money back. Paying by check or
other means to such a company and you've got nothing.





+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Now we'll just use some glue to hold things in place until the brads dry

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Umm, No. We are not talking about a fly by night company.
If I had paid by check it would have been easy, I would have
simply canceled the check at a cost of $7.00. My case is a
bit unusual. I had to buy the item (meaning charged on my
card) before Jan 1 to deduct the cost on my income tax. I
tried to get Dell to simply bill it before Jan 1 but I
didn't really care about the delivery time, but they
wouldn't bill until shipped. I kept getting a later and
later shipping date. When I got a notice of delivery in the
middle of January, I canceled the Dell order and ordered
from Gateway because they agreed to bill my card immediately
and they did. Unfortunately, Dell delivered the stuff 3
days later (about December 21) after I had canceled it so I
refused delivery. Of course their biggest screw up was
sending me a message that delivery be very delayed when it
was already shipped.

If they had communications among their various departments,
all would have been well, but obviously the shipping,
billing, and sales departments didn't communicate. As it
was, the three boxes went back immediately, but the real
hangup was that at their shipping dock, they immediately
rerouted a $500 monitor to another customer and it was
delivered. All that info was fully available on the
shipping routing through the Internet, but Dell couldn't
find it and then they couldn't credit it correctly to me,
etc., etc. I think you call it incompetent cooperation.

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 00:03:06 GMT, wrote:

"Dave Hall" writes:
I don't see Amazon or Dell (never bought anything from or even know
what Newegg might be) to be bottom feeder discounters like I percieve
Harbor Freight. In fact I seldom see Amazon being more that a percent
or two below local sellers and lots of folks significantly undersell
Dell. Therefore to me comparing the customer service levels of higher
priced sellers like Dell to low price sellers like HF is less than
valid.

Newegg is a low price computer & consumer electronics vendor with a
stellar reputation for customer service.

Correction. Check pricewatch.com Newegg has good prices but they are
higher than most of their on-line competitors. They also have MUCH better
service than many of the others and they are well worth every penny they
charge, but they are not in the "harbor Freight" category pricewise.

Check resellerratings.com and you will see the difference.


I regularly find that sale prices at Amazon and Dell are the same or
better than the lowest priced (non-gray market) competitor. For Dell,
there are 10-25% off sales nearly every day.

"Uncle" wrote:

I can't imagine even HF sending items that had to
have additional insurance, without a signature confirmation/acceptance.

I have had packages that said on them signature required left by UPS
on my porch. I am almost always home and often UPS will leave
packages on the porch without even ringing the door bell.
--
I am TERRIBLY cruel to my cat. I tease him with a vine tendril
until he either jumps up in the air to bat at it or zooms around
in a circle until he gets too dizzy to stand up. What is cruel about
it is that I don't do it nearly as much as he wants me to.


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

"Uncle" wrote:

I can't imagine even HF sending items that had to
have additional insurance, without a signature confirmation/acceptance.

I have had packages that said on them signature required left by UPS
on my porch. I am almost always home and often UPS will leave
packages on the porch without even ringing the door bell.
--
I am TERRIBLY cruel to my cat. I tease him with a vine tendril
until he either jumps up in the air to bat at it or zooms around
in a circle until he gets too dizzy to stand up. What is cruel about
it is that I don't do it nearly as much as he wants me to.

I can't imagine even HF sending items that had to
have additional insurance, without a signature confirmation/acceptance.

I have had packages that said on them signature required left by UPS
on my porch. I am almost always home and often UPS will leave
packages on the porch without even ringing the door bell.

Same here. It has happened too many times to me. I've long since given up on
UPS, even for my business. All of my suppliers are told not to ship via UPS,
and any outgoing deliveries are sent via other couriers.

"mp" wrote in message
...
I can't imagine even HF sending items that had to
have additional insurance, without a signature confirmation/acceptance.

I have had packages that said on them signature required left by UPS
on my porch. I am almost always home and often UPS will leave
packages on the porch without even ringing the door bell.

Same here. It has happened too many times to me. I've long since given up
on UPS, even for my business. All of my suppliers are told not to ship via
UPS, and any outgoing deliveries are sent via other couriers.

I am GLAD they leave the packages on my porch! You know how much of a pain
in the ass it is to come home and find a slip telling you that "We attempted
to make a delivery" and then you have to haul ass 30 minutes away to try and
pick up the package before the place closes?

Red Neckerson wrote:

"mp" wrote in message
...
I can't imagine even HF sending items that had to
have additional insurance, without a signature confirmation/acceptance.

I have had packages that said on them signature required left by UPS
on my porch. I am almost always home and often UPS will leave
packages on the porch without even ringing the door bell.

Same here. It has happened too many times to me. I've long since given up
on UPS, even for my business. All of my suppliers are told not to ship via
UPS, and any outgoing deliveries are sent via other couriers.

I am GLAD they leave the packages on my porch! You know how much of a pain
in the ass it is to come home and find a slip telling you that "We attempted
to make a delivery" and then you have to haul ass 30 minutes away to try and
pick up the package before the place closes?

So do I, but they (as well as the others) are instructed (and we keep
same drivers pretty well, fortunately) to leave stuff in the shop, not
out in the open. On the farm, I don't worry much...in town I'd not even
think of it.

It's a lot less pita to go get or have them deliver at another time than
it is to follow-up on a stolen delivery...

I guess it's a calculated risk by UPS on whether it's cheaper in the
long run to lose a few as compared to keeping drivers on schedule...

Red Neckerson wrote:
....
I WAS talking about home delivery. I do not think I'd want them just to
leave a package sitting outside the door at my place of business.....

I know...many places of which I'm aware, including a significant part of
town here, I'd never expect anything to last 10 minutes on a
doorstep---too many sticky-fingered kids and transients...

"Duane Bozarth" wrote Red Neckerson wrote:

"mp" wrote in message
...
I can't imagine even HF sending items that had to
have additional insurance, without a signature
confirmation/acceptance.

I have had packages that said on them signature required left by UPS
on my porch. I am almost always home and often UPS will leave
packages on the porch without even ringing the door bell.

Same here. It has happened too many times to me. I've long since given
up
on UPS, even for my business. All of my suppliers are told not to ship
via
UPS, and any outgoing deliveries are sent via other couriers.

I am GLAD they leave the packages on my porch! You know how much of a
pain
in the ass it is to come home and find a slip telling you that "We
attempted
to make a delivery" and then you have to haul ass 30 minutes away to try
and
pick up the package before the place closes?

So do I, but they (as well as the others) are instructed (and we keep
same drivers pretty well, fortunately) to leave stuff in the shop, not
out in the open. On the farm, I don't worry much...in town I'd not even
think of it.

It's a lot less pita to go get or have them deliver at another time than
it is to follow-up on a stolen delivery...

I guess it's a calculated risk by UPS on whether it's cheaper in the
long run to lose a few as compared to keeping drivers on schedule...

Agreed.

I WAS talking about home delivery. I do not think I'd want them just to
leave a package sitting outside the door at my place of business.....

On 1/16/2005 10:40 AM US(ET), Red Neckerson took fingers to keys, and
typed the following:

"Duane Bozarth" wrote Red Neckerson wrote:


"mp" wrote in message
...


I can't imagine even HF sending items that had to
have additional insurance, without a signature
confirmation/acceptance.


I have had packages that said on them signature required left by UPS
on my porch. I am almost always home and often UPS will leave
packages on the porch without even ringing the door bell.


Same here. It has happened too many times to me. I've long since given
up
on UPS, even for my business. All of my suppliers are told not to ship
via
UPS, and any outgoing deliveries are sent via other couriers.


I am GLAD they leave the packages on my porch! You know how much of a
pain
in the ass it is to come home and find a slip telling you that "We
attempted
to make a delivery" and then you have to haul ass 30 minutes away to try
and
pick up the package before the place closes?


So do I, but they (as well as the others) are instructed (and we keep
same drivers pretty well, fortunately) to leave stuff in the shop, not
out in the open. On the farm, I don't worry much...in town I'd not even
think of it.

It's a lot less pita to go get or have them deliver at another time than
it is to follow-up on a stolen delivery...

I guess it's a calculated risk by UPS on whether it's cheaper in the
long run to lose a few as compared to keeping drivers on schedule...



Agreed.

I WAS talking about home delivery. I do not think I'd want them just to
leave a package sitting outside the door at my place of business.....


They are usually more service oriented towards businesses, especially if
you have a good looking secretary or receptionist that they can chat
with for a few minutes.

--
Bill

You know, someone needed to change this topic to UPS POOR SERVICE, as
this definitely is NOT a HF issue, but instead is a UPS issue

John

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 17:55:53 -0800, Daniel Prince
wrote:

"Uncle" wrote:

I can't imagine even HF sending items that had to
have additional insurance, without a signature confirmation/acceptance.

I have had packages that said on them signature required left by UPS
on my porch. I am almost always home and often UPS will leave
packages on the porch without even ringing the door bell.

Let's stop beating up on Harbor Freight. I think it's the shippers fault. If
they left it on your door step it sounds like it was shipped.I think enough has
been said.
GT

"John" wrote in message
...
You know, someone needed to change this topic to UPS POOR SERVICE, as
this definitely is NOT a HF issue, but instead is a UPS issue

No, what "they" need to do is drop it, PERIOD!

It's getting old and lame......like me......

Ignoramus1946 wrote:

I bought a PVC 1/4" air line from HF. It lasted 6 minutes before it
ruptured at about 100 PSI. What a POS product.

i

I 2nd & 3rd that. They opened here a while back, and I'd been avoiding going
there, 'cause I knew most (probably all) of their stuff is cheap import crap.
Finally couldn't resist, and bought a muffler pipe expander. It was
a only $15, and figured I'd try 'em, and hey, if it worked only once, I'd
win. Stripped the treads on it the very 1st time I tried to use it.
And I was using only hand tools, and was heating the pipe to a cherry red
before trying to expand it and before inserting the expander. Repaired
it by using a long grade 5 bolt & nut. The original compression bolt was
made from very soft metal. Should take the whole damn thing back, but I
won't bother for $15. Another thing I will not take back is myself.

Won't go there again, I hope.
I M...U...S...T R...E...S...I...S...T, M....U...S...T RESIST!
Buyer beware.

Thanks, Steve

"Steve" wrote in message
...
Ignoramus1946 wrote:

I bought a PVC 1/4" air line from HF. It lasted 6 minutes before it
ruptured at about 100 PSI. What a POS product.

i

I 2nd & 3rd that. They opened here a while back, and I'd been avoiding
going
there, 'cause I knew most (probably all) of their stuff is cheap import
crap.
Finally couldn't resist, and bought a muffler pipe expander. It was
a only $15, and figured I'd try 'em, and hey, if it worked only once, I'd
win. Stripped the treads on it the very 1st time I tried to use it.
And I was using only hand tools, and was heating the pipe to a cherry red
before trying to expand it and before inserting the expander. Repaired
it by using a long grade 5 bolt & nut. The original compression bolt was
made from very soft metal. Should take the whole damn thing back, but I
won't bother for $15. Another thing I will not take back is myself.

Won't go there again, I hope.
I M...U...S...T R...E...S...I...S...T, M....U...S...T RESIST!
Buyer beware.


There is some pure junk on their shelves, that's for sure. On the other
hand, I've bought some stuff there that was a really good buy. Bulk nylon
rope - can't beat the price. I bought 600 feet for $9.00. Body tools - I
bought a slap spoon there for under $10 and have used the hell out of it.
Air hose - I bought 3/8 Goodyear hose there for 1/2 the price of places
around here. Works just like a decent air hose should. Grinder wheels,
wire wheels, cutoff wheels - all a fraction of the price other places and
they are perfectly fine wheels. Clamps - both woodworking and body clamps -
much cheaper and they work. Braising rod - a hell of a lot cheaper at HF.
Digital micrometer and dial indicator - both a good buy there. Jack
stands - the best buy around. There's plenty of stuff that you can buy at
HF and save a ton of money compared to other places. You just have to know
what you're looking for and how to recognize junk, and be a little selective
in what you spend your money on there.

--

-Mike-