 |
|
| Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
| Reply |
|
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
OT Guns more Guns
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 19:13:52 GMT, Michael
wrote: But the State that issued this guy an OFFICIAL Permit failed to check him out? How is that anyone else's fault? Does this State Gov't just collect dollars for PERMITS or do even regulate what is going on? A States Government MUST be responsible when it issues PERMITS. Issuing PERMITS to go hunting with firearms should NEVER be a Random Act! Should drivers licenses be given to just anybody that can fog a mirror? Surely a gun has a great possiblity of responsibility? Why monitor drivers and not GUN PERMITS? Sorry, this is that State Govt's responsibility . So NOW you are FOR gun control? LMAO !!! -- Cliff |
|
#2
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 20:38:24 GMT, Michael
wrote: If a home invader comes in with a hand grenade, that assault weapon would be very useful. Paper ..... scissors .... rock ....... So you are saying he needed more guns? IIRC The hand grenade wins over a nest of machine guns .... don't knw about paper though ... Don't you need Nukes? -- Cliff |
|
#3
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 03:32:26 GMT, Gunner
wrote: Care to give me the numbers of people killed or wounded by Assault Weapons in 2003? Pick any year in the last 5. Post your cites. So you are saying that gun control works? And that guns are a danger to the public? -- Cliff |
|
#4
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 03:37:45 GMT, Gunner
wrote: Which new and deadly weapons are you talking about John? Both grenades and self loading rifles have been around for over 100 yrs. Which is why everyone should have piles of them in their bunkers? What if they go off & spoil the kibble? -- Cliff |
|
#6
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:00:23 GMT, Gunner
wrote: Werent you one of the guys who was bitching about the loss of freedoms because of the Patriot Act? So a few Uzi-bangers with hand grenades is the answer? What bunker are you from? Is it dark in there? -- Cliff |
|
#7
|
|||
|
|||
|
On 23-Nov-2004, Cliff wrote: Care to give me the numbers of people killed or wounded by Assault Weapons in 2003? Pick any year in the last 5. Post your cites. So you are saying that gun control works? And that guns are a danger to the public? Misuse of so-called "assault weapons" by criminals was statistically insignificant *before* the so-called "ban" and they have *never* been a serious problem for law enforcement. *Criminals* are a danger to the public and *guns in the hands of lawful citizens* are a danger to criminals. Do you post in talk.politics.guns? If not, is it because there are too many 2nd Amendment supporters with too many facts to counteract your blind hatred of guns and freedom? |
|
#8
|
|||
|
|||
|
Cliff, you never directly confront the point. Why? It's obvious you have
nothing to bring to the table except blind, unreasoning hatred of the Constitution, freedom, and democracy. Talking to you is a waste of time. You will never succeed. You will remain an insignificant loser. Au revoir. |
|
#9
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 19:02:47 GMT, Gunner
wrote: Tell that to all the folks that died last year from being stabbed to death with kitchen knives. How may idiot wingers keep claiming that they make you safer? From other idiots ..... -- Cliff |
|
#10
|
|||
|
|||
|
Cliff wrote in message . ..
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:00:23 GMT, Gunner wrote: Werent you one of the guys who was bitching about the loss of freedoms because of the Patriot Act? So a few Uzi-bangers with hand grenades is the answer? What bunker are you from? Is it dark in there? Check the news, six people killed in Wisconsin by a kook with a 20 round magazine in an assault rifle clone. Had the laws not been changed to allow this idocy, maybe there wouldn't have been so many. Legal in Wisconsin used to be no more than three in the clip, one in the chamber. Shotguns, two in the mag and one in the chamber. That's six people murdered by an out of state kook with a kooks weapon. Justify that. (The old laws used to be balanced by practicality, not radical paranoia from gun freaks.) Several others wounded, and among the dead and wounded, only one, sporting type deer rifle. One woman included, shot off the back of an ATV, and again, only ONE had a rifle. Real men with guns shoot at unarmed women. typical conservative action. |
|
#11
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Lennie the Lurker" wrote
Check the news, six people killed in Wisconsin by a kook with a 20 round magazine in an assault rifle clone. What do you think it's a clone of? The Russians designed it right after WWII, the idea was drawn from a German rifle, but that's about it. Had the laws not been changed to allow this idocy, maybe there wouldn't have been so many. Has the law in fact been changed? Got a cite on that? |
|
#12
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Lennie the Lurker" wrote in message m... Cliff wrote in message . .. On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:00:23 GMT, Gunner wrote: Werent you one of the guys who was bitching about the loss of freedoms because of the Patriot Act? So a few Uzi-bangers with hand grenades is the answer? What bunker are you from? Is it dark in there? Real men with guns shoot at unarmed women. typical conservative action. Yep. |
|
#13
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Lennie the Lurker" wrote
Check the news, six people killed in Wisconsin by a kook with a 20 round magazine in an assault rifle clone. What do you think it's a clone of? The Russians designed it right after WWII, the idea was drawn from a German rifle, but that's about it. Designed during WWII, actually. Duno about the German connection, although the AK-47 was patterned after the STG-44. The SKS has not been classed as an assault weapon by either the military definition or any federal laws. I think California might have is listed as such, but that's about it as far as I remember. It's not one of the guns with features stripped down from a military version, like actual legal assault rifle clones. Other than the extended magazine (not found in most SKS models and outside of legislation since it's fixed to the gun, IIRC) it's an unremarkable medium rifle. Very popular for deer since it's cheap, reliable, and balistically similar to the old 30-30 round. GTO(John) |
|
#14
|
|||
|
|||
|
|
|
#15
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:51:29 -0500, Cliff wrote:
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 19:02:47 GMT, Gunner wrote: Tell that to all the folks that died last year from being stabbed to death with kitchen knives. How may idiot wingers keep claiming that they make you safer? From other idiots ..... Like you perhaps? Kirk "Moe, Larry, the cheese!", Curly |
|
#16
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 15:26:04 -0800, "Phillep"
wrote: "Lennie the Lurker" wrote Check the news, six people killed in Wisconsin by a kook with a 20 round magazine in an assault rifle clone. What do you think it's a clone of? The Russians designed it right after WWII, the idea was drawn from a German rifle, but that's about it. Had the laws not been changed to allow this idocy, maybe there wouldn't have been so many. Has the law in fact been changed? Got a cite on that? If it had a 20 round detachable Magazine, it wasnt an SKS. Gunner Come shed a tear for Michael Moore- Though he smirked and lied like a two-bit whore George Bush has just won another four. Poor, sad little Michael Moore Diogenes |
|
#17
|
|||
|
|||
|
|
|
#18
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Lennie the Lurker" wrote
For the "any gun should be legal" kooks, I don't have a copy of my 1956 hunting regs. It's 2004, not 1956. It's not addressed in the pdf I found: http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/wildlife/regs/Deer04Regs1-35.pdf so it may be legal now. He was not cited for a firearms violation by the officers that arrested him. Kind of like citing a mass murderer for parking on the sidewalk, IMO. I don't think you'll find much opposition in this state to ban those weapons and extended magazines from the woods, a much needed measure. Why? Weren't you talking about how common it was to see men riding bicycles, wearing militia uniforms and carrying firearms? Think a uniform is going to keep someone from going nuts and shooting up the place? BTW, I quit the NRA because they are too soft on gun laws. JPFO is a much better outfit. |
|
#19
|
|||
|
|||
|
If it had a 20 round detachable Magazine, it wasnt an SKS.
Gunner Probably was a fixed mag, from what I've heard at least. I do know that some SKSs years ago were imported with AK-style mag wells. GTO(John) |
|
#20
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Gunner" wrote
If it had a 20 round detachable Magazine, it wasnt an SKS. Not so. There was also a modified SKS availible back around 1990 that would take standard AK mags. I wish I'd gotten one back then. Also, there's a type of magazine I think of as a "duckbill", it looks sort of like a normal magazine with a "beak" stuck out the front. The mouth of the beak fits on the catch pin in front and the latch holds it in place in back. They were made in 5, 10, and 20 cartridge models. Easily removed, but I don't think it's counted as a "removable" because you have to hold the bolt back. (I haven't messed with an SKS for a while, so don't really remember.) The SKS is not modified. These magazines were availible in both metal and Zytel. The plastic ones sucked (I got one.) Google rec.guns, SKS +"AK magazine" 27 hits. |
|
#21
|
|||
|
|||
|
|
|
#22
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Lennie the Lurker" wrote in message
om... Unfortunately, money and blustering bull**** still talk louder than rationale. Myself, I think there should be a bounty on NRA lobbyists. $5 per head, 360 day open season, no bag limit. If still alive, no bounty, go finish the job first. Yeah, you have the bluster part right, Lennie. Jeez, I hate gun control arguments. They're such a bunch of crap, and it makes me sick that intelligent people like you and John can fall for such transparent bull****. There are plenty of issues to deal with concerning guns used in crimes, and accidental deaths, and so on. They need the attention of good thinking and untainted facts. Instead you repeat bull****, bull****, bull****...and you wind up distracting attention from the real problems with symbolic gestures, like "assault weapon" bans. Here's the news, Lennie. There IS NO data indicating that more than, at most, 2% of crimes are committed with "assault weapons." It's been that way since before the bans were enacted, in the late '80s. But Gunner is not correct that the FBI tracks this data. The FBI has said, quite rightly, and in congressional hearings, that there is no useful, nationwide data on the use of "assault weapons." The closest thing is city records of guns confiscated, which show that something less than 1% of guns confiscated are "assault weapons." The reports that indicate more than 2% usage (actually, less than 1%; I'm giving the benefit of the doubt. The high figure was 3.13%, in Miami, 1989. Guess where they came from, in Drug City 1989? Not from your local gun shop, pard'.) come from BATF. And they are completely bogus. The BATF tracks only selected cases, for specific reasons. They are not survey data. They make no claim that they're representative of anything. But HCI et al don't want you to know that. In fact, the entire case against "assault weapons" is a creation of HCI and their cronies. They did it Dick Cheney/Karl Rove style: keep repeating a lie until it sticks. It started back in 1988. There was an extreme anti-gun activist named Josh Sugarmann, who, like the folks at HCI, were getting frustrated as hell that they couldn't whip up much revulsion among American voters against handgun violence. So they changed tactics. Here's what Sugarmann said about it then, in his polemic titled "Assault Weapons in America": "The issue of handgun restriction remains a non-issue with the vast majority of legislators, the press, and public. . . . Assault weapons . . . are a new topic. The weapons` menacing looks, coupled with the public`s confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons -- anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun -- can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons." It was a political scam. And it worked. Fifteen years later, they have people like John saying "we have to get these assault weapons off the streets." But they were never ON the streets, in any numbers. The guns used in crimes continue to be handguns, for reasons that should be obvious to anyone who's tried to stuff an AR-15 under his coat. g Back around 1990 I interviewed the people who keep gun records for the state of NJ, for a series of PR editorials I wrote then. I was up to my neck in the FBI/UCR stats, interviews with state UCR records-keepers, Dewey Stokes, and the lawyers at ILA for well over a year, trying to get to the bottom of it all. I lobbied NJ state Assemblymen, trying, in my naive way, to get the truth out. I was verbally beaten up by a NJ state Senator, now blessedly deceased. g Overall, it was not a pretty picture. I learned that much of our legislation is based on intentional lies. The "assault weapons" bans are among them. Anyway, pulling together a few facts for this message, I came upon a summary of testimony given by a top Trenton cop, whom I had talked to at the time, and it reminded me of a few relevant facts. Here's the summary (not mine, because I tossed my notes years ago, but it sounds exactly right, by my memory): "According to the Deputy Chief Joseph Constance of the Trenton New Jersey Police Department, in 1989, there was not a single murder involving any rifle, much less a "semiautomatic assault rifle," in the State of New Jersey.[107] No person in New Jersey was killed with an "assault weapon" in 1988.[108] Nevertheless, in 1990 the New Jersey legislature enacted an "assault weapon" ban that included low-power .22 rifles, and even BB guns. Based on the legislature's broad definition of "assault weapons," in 1991, such guns were used in five of 410 murders in New Jersey; in forty-seven of 22,728 armed robberies; and in twenty-three of 23,720 aggravated assaults committed in New Jersey.[109]" The numbers are cites that point to references to the text, if you want them I'll tell you where you can find them. New Jersey's experience is similar to that of most states. The "assault weapon" issue was bogus, cooked up by HCI et al to stir up some trouble. Their real target was handguns, but they treated the "assault weapon" issue as a means to an end. Then "assault weapons" took off in the press's imagination, much to the delight of gun-banners everywhere. Anyway, I'm not going to get into a citation war over this. I think that most people here know that I play it straight, and any figures that anyone comes up with that indicate 5% or 10% of crimes are committed with "assault weapons" are bogus, unequivocally; I'll only go after one if you cite them, and you'll eat dirt before I'm done if you make me do it. I'm too busy for that crap. g I forget where many of the bodies are buried but I'll find one if I have to. The point is, you've been had. In a big way. "Assault weapons" are not the problem. 'Never were. It's all a distraction, which is intended to get you drooling and foaming. And it's worked. Now, while you're diddling around with bogus "assault weapon" issues, people are getting killed. And guns are one issue. Crazy people who get their hands on them are another issue. There are lots of real issues, and large magazines are one of them. Gunner will go up a tree on this, and I refuse to get into an argument with him about it, but big magazines are bad news. SKS's are not bad news. They're innocuous little rifles with 10-shot fixed magazines fed with stripper clips. But there are some after-the-fact models made with removable magazines, and they can be a problem when people stick 20-round magazines on them. Also, I read that the one used by the deer hunter was "modified" for the removable magazines. Apparently that's a popular conversion. I don't know how many of them are around, but the conversions ought to be outlawed, IMO. When I see somebody at the range with a big clip hanging down from some little semiauto gun, my blood boils. He's part of the problem -- that is, both the image problem and a real problem, which is that violent kids, and nutballs, and murderers love 'dem big magazines. This is an off-the-reservation thing to say, but I believe they should be sacrificed in the name of sanity and social comity. I'm not a purist about anything, except using natural hackle and dubbing on my dry flies, and I'm willing to toss big magazines over the side in the name of good sense, and as a symbol of responsibility among gun owners. And I don't give a flying **** what arguments Gunner makes about it. g Ed Huntress |
|
#23
|
|||
|
|||
|
snipped
The point is, you've been had. In a big way. "Assault weapons" are not the problem. 'Never were. It's all a distraction, which is intended to get you drooling and foaming. And it's worked. Now, while you're diddling around with bogus "assault weapon" issues, people are getting killed. And guns are one issue. Crazy people who get their hands on them are another issue. There are lots of real issues, and large magazines are one of them. Gunner will go up a tree on this, and I refuse to get into an argument with him about it, but big magazines are bad news. SKS's are not bad news. They're innocuous little rifles with 10-shot fixed magazines fed with stripper clips. But there are some after-the-fact models made with removable magazines, and they can be a problem when people stick 20-round magazines on them. Also, I read that the one used by the deer hunter was "modified" for the removable magazines. Apparently that's a popular conversion. I don't know how many of them are around, but the conversions ought to be outlawed, IMO. When I see somebody at the range with a big clip hanging down from some little semiauto gun, my blood boils. He's part of the problem -- that is, both the image problem and a real problem, which is that violent kids, and nutballs, and murderers love 'dem big magazines. This is an off-the-reservation thing to say, but I believe they should be sacrificed in the name of sanity and social comity. I'm not a purist about anything, except using natural hackle and dubbing on my dry flies, and I'm willing to toss big magazines over the side in the name of good sense, and as a symbol of responsibility among gun owners. And I don't give a flying **** what arguments Gunner makes about it. g Ed Huntress hated to snipp Ed's good comments... here are some numbers.. though a bit old.. that show what is actually being used to kill folks... http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/guic.txt * Although most crime is not committed with guns, most gun crime is committed with handguns. pages 1 & 2 * In 1994, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) received over 85,132 requests from law enforcement agencies for traces of guns used in crime. Over three quarters of the guns traced by the ATF in 1994 were handguns (mostly pistols), and almost a third were less than 3 years old. page 4 * Surveys of inmates show that they prefer concealable, large caliber guns. Juvenile offenders appear to be more likely to possess guns than adults. page 5 * Studies of the guns used in homicides show that large caliber revolvers are the most frequent type of gun used in murder, but the number of large caliber semiautomatic guns used in murders is increasing. page 5 * Little information exists about the use of assault weapons in crime. The information that does exist uses varying definitions of assault weapons that were developed before the Federal assault weapons ban was enacted. page 6 How often are guns used in violent crimes? According to the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), almost 43.6 million criminal victimizations occurred in 1993, including 4.4 million violent crimes of rape and sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated assault. Of the victims of these violent crimes, 1.3 million (29%) stated that they faced an offender with a firearm. In 1993, the FBI's Crime in the United States estimated that almost 2 million violent crimes of murder, rape, robbery and aggravated assault were reported to the police by citizens. About 582,000 of these reported murders, robberies, and aggravated assaults were committed with firearms. Murder was the crime that most frequently involved firearms; 70% of the 24,526 murders in 1993 were committed with firearms. Most stolen guns are handguns Victims report to the Victim Survey that in 53% of the thefts of guns, handguns were stolen. The FBI's stolen gun file's 2 million reports include information on-- 1.26 million handguns (almost 60%) 470,000 rifles (22%) 356,000 shotguns (17%). From 1985 to 1994, the FBI received an annual average of over 274,000 reports of stolen guns How many automatic weapons are stolen? Under the provisions of the National Firearms Act, all automatic weapons such as machine guns must be registered with the ATF. In 1995, over 240,000 automatic weapons were registered with the ATF. As of March 1995, the NCIC stolen gun file contained reports on about 7,700 machine guns and submachine guns. etc etc, Mike |
|
#24
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 01:03:19 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote: "Lennie the Lurker" wrote in message . com... Unfortunately, money and blustering bull**** still talk louder than rationale. Myself, I think there should be a bounty on NRA lobbyists. $5 per head, 360 day open season, no bag limit. If still alive, no bounty, go finish the job first. Yeah, you have the bluster part right, Lennie. Jeez, I hate gun control arguments. They're such a bunch of crap, and it makes me sick that intelligent people like you and John can fall for such transparent bull****. Uh, shouldn't that be SUPPOSEDLY intelligent people or maybe ALLEGEDLY intelligent people? When someone gives evidence they lack intelligence, I generally believe them.  (snip) |
|
#25
|
|||
|
|||
|
When I see somebody at the range with a big clip hanging down from some little semiauto gun, my blood boils. He's part of the problem -- that is, both the image problem and a real problem, which is that violent kids, and nutballs, and murderers love 'dem big magazines. This is an off-the-reservation thing to say, but I believe they should be sacrificed in the name of sanity and social comity. .... Ed Huntress I agree, Ed Huntress should be sacrificed in the name of sanity and social comity. I killfiled him a while back ago because of his many pro-confiscation, anti-gun, anti-liberty sentiments. I occasionally see his crap when someone, as here, quotes him. Not too often, as he doesn't seem to have much of a following. The difference between 10 rounds (reloadable with stripper clips) and 20 rounds is a distinction without a difference. The Wisconsin folks got killt because they were outgunned, and not expecting a little VC guy to shoot back when--as reports have it--they fired in his direction. For Huntress to call for the sacrificing of those with large clips is proof that gun owners are themselves the gun-owning community's worst enemy. It's why I quite the NRA in disgust in the mid-90s. (With the NRA itself calling for gun registration and "instant check" data bases, it became clear that they were the main enemy.) --Tim May |
|
#26
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Tim May" wrote in message
... For Huntress to call for the sacrificing of those with large clips is proof that gun owners are themselves the gun-owning community's worst enemy. It's why I quite the NRA in disgust in the mid-90s. I'll bet they were crushed, Tim. Ed Huntress |
|
#27
|
|||
|
|||
|
"The Watcher" wrote in message
... On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 01:03:19 -0500, "Ed Huntress" wrote: "Lennie the Lurker" wrote in message . com... Unfortunately, money and blustering bull**** still talk louder than rationale. Myself, I think there should be a bounty on NRA lobbyists. $5 per head, 360 day open season, no bag limit. If still alive, no bounty, go finish the job first. Yeah, you have the bluster part right, Lennie. Jeez, I hate gun control arguments. They're such a bunch of crap, and it makes me sick that intelligent people like you and John can fall for such transparent bull****. Uh, shouldn't that be SUPPOSEDLY intelligent people or maybe ALLEGEDLY intelligent people? When someone gives evidence they lack intelligence, I generally believe them. 'Same here. Ed Huntress |
|
#28
|
|||
|
|||
|
In article , Ed Huntress says...
Here's the news, Lennie. There IS NO data indicating that more than, at most, 2% of crimes are committed with "assault weapons." Shame shame, Ed. Data "ARE" not "is". You of all people. g When I see somebody at the range with a big clip hanging down from some little semiauto gun, my blood boils. He's part of the problem -- that is, both the image problem and a real problem, which is that violent kids, and nutballs, and murderers love 'dem big magazines. Probably because they can't hit anything with the first shot anyway. I think the hunting education is 'ol Wisconsin is going to have to include a section on "what to do when the deer start shooting back." Jim -- ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
|
#29
|
|||
|
|||
|
In article , Lennie the Lurker
says... There are six people dead, that is not bull****. They were killed by a kook that thought he had to have a 20 round magazine to hunt deer. THAT IS THE BULL****. Actually that guy probably could have done the deed just as well with a 30-30 and a tubular magazine. ... Either admit that those huge clips aren't needed, You really didn't read his whole post, did you? Go back and check it again, you might be suprised. Jim -- ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
|
#31
|
|||
|
|||
|
On 25 Nov 2004 07:24:34 -0800, Lennie the Lurker wrote:
There are six people dead, that is not bull****. They were killed by a kook that thought he had to have a 20 round magazine to hunt deer. Actually, yes. It is bull****. An SKS has a fixed 10-round magazine. THAT IS THE BULL****. If it had not been for the NRA and other wacko groups, that gun would not have been legal in the woods, The SKS was not banned under the AWB, and would not have been included under any of the proposed extensions to it, because it doesn't use removable magazines. You have to load the rounds into the gun from the top, one round at a time. -- Recedite, plebes! Gero rem imperialem! |
|
#32
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 04:32:49 GMT, Gunner
wrote: Something evidently you are totally unfamiliar with, basing your posts on fear, paranoia and phobia and nothing else. Tell us again why you *need* guns? LMAO !!! -- Cliff |
|
#33
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 01:03:19 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote: But Gunner is not correct that the FBI tracks this data. Just more of his BS, eh? Looks like the pond thawed. -- Cliff |
|
#34
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 01:03:19 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote: anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun How many kids with toy plastic guns have the police shot over the years? All in self defense ..... They are going to see those guns ....... even the real ones. -- Cliff |
|
#35
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 01:03:19 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote: nutballs, and murderers love 'dem big magazines. How would that ever be a problem were they, per statements, never used? -- Cliff |
|
#36
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 06:26:03 GMT, Mike In Santa Cruz
wrote: Most stolen guns are handguns Victims report to the Victim Survey that in 53% of the thefts of guns, handguns were stolen. The FBI's stolen gun file's 2 million reports include information on-- 1.26 million handguns (almost 60%) 470,000 rifles (22%) 356,000 shotguns (17%). Like I keep saying .... they make the owner a taget. In those ~2,000,000 cases, how many times did the gun get used in self-defense? Looks like about none. How many thefts would NOT have happened, including all associated injuries & deaths, had they NOT had thse guns to steal? OTOH We now have probably ~2,000,000 more people armed to protect themselves with guns, do we not? -- Cliff |
|
#37
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 06:26:03 GMT, Mike In Santa Cruz
wrote: Most stolen guns are handguns Because most guns are such? Victims report to the Victim Survey that in 53% of the thefts of guns, handguns were stolen. The FBI's stolen gun file's 2 million reports include information on-- 1.26 million handguns (almost 60%) 470,000 rifles (22%) 356,000 shotguns (17%). Nothing there about automatics? From 1985 to 1994, the FBI received an annual average of over 274,000 reports of stolen guns How many automatic weapons are stolen? Under the provisions of the National Firearms Act, all automatic weapons such as machine guns must be registered with the ATF. In 1995, over 240,000 automatic weapons were registered with the ATF. As of March 1995, the NCIC stolen gun file contained reports on about 7,700 machine guns and submachine guns. How do the ratios compare? Are automatics the gun of choice? 7700/240000 = 2,000,000/X .... how big is X? That might tell more of the tale. -- Cliff |
|
#38
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 02:19:14 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote: "Tim May" wrote in message t... For Huntress to call for the sacrificing of those with large clips is proof that gun owners are themselves the gun-owning community's worst enemy. It's why I quite the NRA in disgust in the mid-90s. I'll bet they were crushed, Tim. G For Tim: http://www.imgag.com/product/full/ap...7/graphic1.swf -- Cliff |
|
#39
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 04:31:29 GMT, Gunner
wrote: On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 15:26:04 -0800, "Phillep" wrote: "Lennie the Lurker" wrote Check the news, six people killed in Wisconsin by a kook with a 20 round magazine in an assault rifle clone. What do you think it's a clone of? The Russians designed it right after WWII, the idea was drawn from a German rifle, but that's about it. Had the laws not been changed to allow this idocy, maybe there wouldn't have been so many. Has the law in fact been changed? Got a cite on that? If it had a 20 round detachable Magazine, it wasnt an SKS. Hmmm. I've got an SKS with a 30 round detachable mag. Go figure. Gunner Come shed a tear for Michael Moore- Though he smirked and lied like a two-bit whore George Bush has just won another four. Poor, sad little Michael Moore Diogenes Kirk "Moe, Larry, the cheese!", Curly |
|
#40
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 01:03:19 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote: "Lennie the Lurker" wrote in message . com... Unfortunately, money and blustering bull**** still talk louder than rationale. Myself, I think there should be a bounty on NRA lobbyists. $5 per head, 360 day open season, no bag limit. If still alive, no bounty, go finish the job first. Yeah, you have the bluster part right, Lennie. Jeez, I hate gun control arguments. They're such a bunch of crap, and it makes me sick that intelligent people like you and John can fall for such transparent bull****. (gun control argumentation, snipped) When I see somebody at the range with a big clip hanging down from some little semiauto gun, my blood boils. Really? How odd. It doesn't bother me one bit. He's part of the problem -- that is, both the image problem and a real problem, which is that violent kids, and nutballs, and murderers love 'dem big magazines. I'm none of the above, and yet I understand the utility of large capacity magazines. This is an off-the-reservation thing to say, but I believe they should be sacrificed in the name of sanity and social comity. The 2nd Amendment isn't about deer hunting or social comity. I'm not a purist about anything, except using natural hackle and dubbing on my dry flies, and I'm willing to toss big magazines over the side in the name of good sense, Big magazines ARE very sensible. and as a symbol of responsibility among gun owners. And I don't give a flying **** what arguments Gunner makes about it. g I understand that you don't care about the arguments put forth by those who disagree with you. But when did that detail ever stop anyone??? The 2nd Amendment guarantees my right to keep and bear arms for the defense of self, family, friends, neighbors and country. Large capacity magazines make a firearm a better tool for that purpose, and thus are a Good Thing(tm). You'll notice that the military and police, tasked with the same duty to defend, do not limit themselves to 10 round magazines when 30 or 40 round magazines are available. I see no reason I should either. -- Robert Sturgeon Summum ius summa inuria. http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge/ |
| Reply |
| Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads
|
||||
| Thread | Forum | |||
| If Guns Were Outlawed, Only Bad Dogs Would Have Guns | Metalworking | |||
| HVLP spray guns | Metalworking | |||
| Nice write up about LEDs | Metalworking | |||
| ot- Gun Laws in Australia | Metalworking | |||
Linear Mode
