Bill wrote:


Did you order your Kreg jigs? Leon seemed to make a persuasive
argument for k4.


Haven't ordered the K4 yet. If I remember to do it tomorrow, I will.
Yeah - Leon's input on the K3 was invaluable. That's the kind of thing
that I would have obsessed over had it not been for Leon's comments. Now -
I'm perfectly happy going with the K4.

--

-Mike-

On 1/21/2013 7:55 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 1/21/2013 3:22 PM, Bill wrote:

No reason to start a new thread. Just picked up four 3" castors from
Harbor Freight
to build one of those pyramidal-shaped clamp racks, with a 30" base with
a flat top to put neccessities,
and probably some shelves in between. Since I'll be using screws, the
project allows for winter woodworking (something
many folks are able to take for granted!)


Here's a picture of the basic idea, with which the reader is probably
already familiar:
http://www.woodcraft.com/product/202...able-plan.aspx



The four main "verticals" (corner pieces) have "splay" (at least, I
think that's the way they refer to it on the legs on Windsor chairs).

I'll review my ww mags to help come up with a desgin--I will probably
include a flat end to hang hooks on.
New shop furniture!

I'm not sure if I'll have splay in just two dimension or three. The
clamp rack in the diagram seems appears to be in the former category,
and would be simpler than if done in the latter category--but might end
up looking more "stoic" (than pyramidal).

If anyone has any suggestions on building with splay, as described, I'm
all ears. I think that with leaning/splay in 2 dimensions (like in the
picture at the link), the problem
is not as challenging as it is in 3.

Cheers,
Bill



Bill I can send you a Sketchup drawing of my mobile clamp rack. I can
tell you that the top catch all box on top is not great if you can't
see what is inside. Mine has one way up there and I really should
lower it.

Any way Mine is tall enough for 6' clamps.

Let me know where to send it if you want a copy.

Thanks for your kind offering, Leon! I would be quite interested in
seeing what you did! Please send to .
I have twelve 4-foot pipe clamps, and nipple connectors (so I can have
two 24-foot pipe clamps when I need them!), and no six-footers.
Thus mine won't need to be as high as yours.

I'll send a picture of the real thing too. It is basically 2x4 and 1x4
material.






Mike Marlow, I was thinking about what you said about floor space. These
clamp racks do provide for a few new places to set stuff.
You know, the stuff that doesn't have a place? A wad of steel wool?
Extra clamps? : )

Bill

Bill wrote:


Mike Marlow, I was thinking about what you said about floor space.
These clamp racks do provide for a few new places to set stuff.
You know, the stuff that doesn't have a place? A wad of steel wool?
Extra clamps? : )


Thanks for the thought Bill. I have lots of shelving space around the third
bay in my garage, which is the shop area. Plus - all of the walls in that
bay are peg board. I know some guys don't like peg board, but I love the
stuff. Because of the way I use that area (metal fab, woodworking, a place
to drop my plow inside in the winter, etc.), unobstructed floor space is
pretty key. I just hate having to move a bunch of crap around to do
something. I don't mind moving a thing or two, but when it takes more work
to move a ton of stuff, than to do the actual project at hand, then I'm not
so happy. And... I hate having to duck and dive my way through things to
get to something that is across the bay. So - I bit the bullet and spent
several days cleaning up, throwing out, reorganizing, etc., and now I am
liking it more.

--

-Mike-

Bill wrote:


No reason to start a new thread. Just picked up four 3" castors
from
Harbor Freight
to build one of those pyramidal-shaped clamp racks, with a 30" base
with
a flat top to put neccessities,
and probably some shelves in between. Since I'll be using screws,
the
project allows for winter woodworking (something
many folks are able to take for granted!)


Here's a picture of the basic idea, with which the reader is
probably
already familiar:
http://www.woodcraft.com/product/202...able-plan.aspx
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Might want to check out Norm's offering.

http://tinyurl.com/ba44xe8

It's a two for one deal.

Lew

On it's way

On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 18:14:02 -0500, Bill
wrote:

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:
I was just making the point that hammer don't just "not fall" because
they are not supposed to.
BTW, with regard to your remark--both guns fire center-fire
cartridges, that makes them the same
sort of machine to me.

Now that is taking the art of oversimplification to new levels.
My bad, I was thinking of the semi-auto Remington 760.
Yes, I agree that it's not fair to compare a bolt-action gun to a Colt 45.
The Remington 760 not such a stretch, right?

A Winchester 1873 (a lever action) had a hammer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wi...Rifle_1495.jpg

http://www.neaca.com/images/Remington_Rifles_760_1_.JPG
I see no hammer on this 760. shrug

--
The door of opportunity is marked "PUSH".
--anon

On 1/21/2013 6:14 PM, Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:
I was just making the point that hammer don't just "not fall" because
they are not supposed to.
BTW, with regard to your remark--both guns fire center-fire
cartridges, that makes them the same
sort of machine to me.

Now that is taking the art of oversimplification to new levels.
My bad, I was thinking of the semi-auto Remington 760.
Yes, I agree that it's not fair to compare a bolt-action gun to a Colt 45.
The Remington 760 not such a stretch, right?



I see they have introduced some new models in the last 30 years. The
Model 750 is the semi-auto, and the Model 760 is a pump.

The Colt probably uses only the backward thrust to help rechamber the
next round, while the semi-auto rifle probably uses some of the "air
pressure" produced to help due the same. Kind of like comparing an
electric car to one powered by gasoline (if you like analogies!) : )

Bill

On 1/21/2013 10:14 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/21/2013 8:44 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 1/21/2013 4:22 PM, Bill wrote:

No reason to start a new thread. Just picked up four 3" castors from
Harbor Freight
to build one of those pyramidal-shaped clamp racks, with a 30" base with
a flat top to put neccessities,
and probably some shelves in between. Since I'll be using screws, the
project allows for winter woodworking (something
many folks are able to take for granted!)


Here's a picture of the basic idea, with which the reader is probably
already familiar:
http://www.woodcraft.com/product/202...able-plan.aspx




The four main "verticals" (corner pieces) have "splay" (at least, I
think that's the way they refer to it on the legs on Windsor chairs).

I'll review my ww mags to help come up with a desgin--I will probably
include a flat end to hang hooks on.
New shop furniture!

I'm not sure if I'll have splay in just two dimension or three. The
clamp rack in the diagram seems appears to be in the former category,
and would be simpler than if done in the latter category--but might end
up looking more "stoic" (than pyramidal).

If anyone has any suggestions on building with splay, as described, I'm
all ears. I think that with leaning/splay in 2 dimensions (like in the
picture at the link), the problem
is not as challenging as it is in 3.

Cheers,
Bill


Bill , incorporate some 1/2 or 3/4 inch pipe for at least one rung on
each side and you can load it with heavy clamps. You'd be surprised how
even closet rod will bend under a heavy load. I think over the years you
will be surprised how much you use and add to your collection. I find my
rack is a great addition. I want another. Man can never have too many
clamps... Unless he doesn't use them.

Thanks for the tip on using pipe. Yes, I have a bunch of clamps
already. Like everyone else here, I'm sure, I see my collection growing
rather than shrinking. Currently, I have 4 "stacks" of clamps (sorted by
size)--quite unsatisfactory.

Bill


1x4 works great.

On 1/21/2013 10:34 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
Bill wrote:


No reason to start a new thread. Just picked up four 3" castors
from
Harbor Freight
to build one of those pyramidal-shaped clamp racks, with a 30" base
with
a flat top to put neccessities,
and probably some shelves in between. Since I'll be using screws,
the
project allows for winter woodworking (something
many folks are able to take for granted!)


Here's a picture of the basic idea, with which the reader is
probably
already familiar:
http://www.woodcraft.com/product/202...able-plan.aspx
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Might want to check out Norm's offering.

http://tinyurl.com/ba44xe8

It's a two for one deal.

Lew



That's the idea. Of course, I will dimension to fit my clamps.

An interesting aspect that just occurred to me is making it
"dimensionally sound" (so it doesn't fall over). I think the answer
lies in arranging things--so that the main forces are in the downward
direction, and toward the center of the base. For instance, a
cubically-shaped stand would not satisfy the last part of that.
I'm sure that you engineers can express the requirement more admirably! : )

Bill

On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 07:56:31 -0500, Bill
wrote:

On 1/21/2013 10:14 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/21/2013 8:44 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 1/21/2013 4:22 PM, Bill wrote:

No reason to start a new thread. Just picked up four 3" castors from
Harbor Freight
to build one of those pyramidal-shaped clamp racks, with a 30" base with
a flat top to put neccessities,
and probably some shelves in between. Since I'll be using screws, the
project allows for winter woodworking (something
many folks are able to take for granted!)


Here's a picture of the basic idea, with which the reader is probably
already familiar:
http://www.woodcraft.com/product/202...able-plan.aspx




The four main "verticals" (corner pieces) have "splay" (at least, I
think that's the way they refer to it on the legs on Windsor chairs).

I'll review my ww mags to help come up with a desgin--I will probably
include a flat end to hang hooks on.
New shop furniture!

I'm not sure if I'll have splay in just two dimension or three. The
clamp rack in the diagram seems appears to be in the former category,
and would be simpler than if done in the latter category--but might end
up looking more "stoic" (than pyramidal).

If anyone has any suggestions on building with splay, as described, I'm
all ears. I think that with leaning/splay in 2 dimensions (like in the
picture at the link), the problem
is not as challenging as it is in 3.

Cheers,
Bill


Bill , incorporate some 1/2 or 3/4 inch pipe for at least one rung on
each side and you can load it with heavy clamps. You'd be surprised how
even closet rod will bend under a heavy load. I think over the years you
will be surprised how much you use and add to your collection. I find my
rack is a great addition. I want another. Man can never have too many
clamps... Unless he doesn't use them.

Thanks for the tip on using pipe. Yes, I have a bunch of clamps
already. Like everyone else here, I'm sure, I see my collection growing
rather than shrinking. Currently, I have 4 "stacks" of clamps (sorted by
size)--quite unsatisfactory.

I believe you have plenty of free wallspace, so put up some 1x4x14'
(standard size utility one by four) shelving against the wall nearest
your assembly area. Sort by size rather than type. Lay spring clamps
on top and loosely slide the clamps over the shelf to hang.

Alternatively, build a 30 or 36" square A-frame. I used furring
strips on which to hang my clamps with 2x2 uprights and 5" swivel
casters. I like the 5" because they can roll over an air hose without
tipping the beastie over.

It cost $125 less than Rockler's sheetmetal one.
http://tinyurl.com/a4uzjpy

--
The door of opportunity is marked "PUSH".
--anon

Larry Jaques wrote:
Alternatively, build a 30 or 36" square A-frame. I used furring strips
on which to hang my clamps with 2x2 uprights and 5" swivel casters. I
like the 5" because they can roll over an air hose without tipping the
beastie over. It cost $125 less than Rockler's sheetmetal one.
http://tinyurl.com/a4uzjpy -- The door of opportunity is marked
"PUSH". --anon

Yes, I plan to go the A-frame route. I got four 3" wheels for $20.
Following someone's suggestion, I looked at the wheels on dollies that
were on sale, but the wheels on them were grossly inferior compared to
the ones I bought instead. Yes, I did have to pay a few bucks more. I
was thinking my 3" ones were on the large size! All things are
relative. I don't like Rockler's rack alot either--it lacks character! : )

Bill

Leon wrote:

I'll send a picture of the real thing too. It is basically 2x4 and
1x4 material.


Leon, I received your file. Thank you very much for sending it! It was
interesting to see the way you
handled the "joinery" for the uprights and that you designated a spot
for each of your parallel clamps.
Thanks for sharing!

Bill

On 1/22/2013 1:12 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:

I'll send a picture of the real thing too. It is basically 2x4 and
1x4 material.


Leon, I received your file. Thank you very much for sending it! It was
interesting to see the way you
handled the "joinery" for the uprights and that you designated a spot
for each of your parallel clamps.
Thanks for sharing!

It will be the picture of perfection, you can count on it.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

Swingman wrote:
On 1/22/2013 1:12 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:

I'll send a picture of the real thing too. It is basically 2x4 and
1x4 material.


Leon, I received your file. Thank you very much for sending it! It was
interesting to see the way you
handled the "joinery" for the uprights and that you designated a spot
for each of your parallel clamps.
Thanks for sharing!

It will be the picture of perfection, you can count on it.

Leon's clamps are very "orderly". I was going to sling my clamps on a
bar like shirts in the closet, but
now I am concerned that might appear barbaric! ; )

I am pretty happy borrowing ideas from here and there and working out a
model.
And, when I can design along with others, that's about "as good as fun
gets", for me!

Bill

Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:

I'll send a picture of the real thing too. It is basically 2x4 and 1x4 material.


Leon, I received your file. Thank you very much for sending it! It was
interesting to see the way you
handled the "joinery" for the uprights and that you designated a spot for
each of your parallel clamps.
Thanks for sharing!

Bill

Your welcome Bill. Any time.

Bill wrote:
Swingman wrote:
On 1/22/2013 1:12 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:

I'll send a picture of the real thing too. It is basically 2x4 and
1x4 material.


Leon, I received your file. Thank you very much for sending it! It was
interesting to see the way you
handled the "joinery" for the uprights and that you designated a spot
for each of your parallel clamps.
Thanks for sharing!

It will be the picture of perfection, you can count on it.

Leon's clamps are very "orderly". I was going to sling my clamps on a
bar like shirts in the closet, but
now I am concerned that might appear barbaric! ; )

I am pretty happy borrowing ideas from here and there and working out a model.
And, when I can design along with others, that's about "as good as fun gets", for me!

Bill

I tried putting my clamps on the rack next to each other and with the
handles on the inside. That resulted in it being quite difficult to pull
out and replace each clamp.

The way I have them hung in the drawing makes it as easy to pull and
replace. NO INTERFERENCE, This method waisted little more space.

What ever style rack you use I highly recommend hanging them like mine are
hung.

Leon wrote:
Bill wrote:
It will be the picture of perfection, you can count on it.
Leon's clamps are very "orderly". I was going to sling my clamps on a
bar like shirts in the closet, but
now I am concerned that might appear barbaric! ; )

Bill
I tried putting my clamps on the rack next to each other and with the
handles on the inside. That resulted in it being quite difficult to pull
out and replace each clamp.

The way I have them hung in the drawing makes it as easy to pull and
replace. NO INTERFERENCE, This method waisted little more space.

What ever style rack you use I highly recommend hanging them like mine are
hung.

All of my long clamps are either F-clamps (16) or pipe
clamps (12). I have no parallel clamps, so I don't think interference
will be as big of a problem for me as it was for you. However, I
WILL experiment a little. Woodchucker suggested steel pipe, and that
sounds like a good way to help support my pipe clamps. Thanks again
for the drawing!

Bill

Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
Bill wrote:
It will be the picture of perfection, you can count on it.
Leon's clamps are very "orderly". I was going to sling my clamps on a
bar like shirts in the closet, but
now I am concerned that might appear barbaric! ; )

Bill
I tried putting my clamps on the rack next to each other and with the
handles on the inside. That resulted in it being quite difficult to pull
out and replace each clamp.

The way I have them hung in the drawing makes it as easy to pull and
replace. NO INTERFERENCE, This method waisted little more space.

What ever style rack you use I highly recommend hanging them like mine are
hung.

All of my long clamps are either F-clamps (16) or pipe
clamps (12). I have no parallel clamps, so I don't think interference
will be as big of a problem for me as it was for you. However, I
WILL experiment a little. Woodchucker suggested steel pipe, and that
sounds like a good way to help support my pipe clamps. Thanks again
for the drawing!

Bill

FWIW, regardless of style clamp if you don't have to move other clamps to
get the one you want you will like it better. Pipe will work but 1x4 is
plenty strong enough and probably less expensive.

In the case of the ".45" the OP may be speaking about the model 1911 and
the changes Colt adopted when going from the series "series 70" and older
pistols to the "series 80." The "series 80" guns have a plunger & linkage
that blocks the firing pin from moving forward if the trigger is not
depressed, and also changed the half-cock configuration somewhat. Some
other manufacturers of model 1911s have adopted these or similar
changes too. With the older designs, it is possible that with a round
chambered, if the pistol dropped onto a hard surface at the right (wrong?)
angle with enough force, it could fire. Note that these accidental discharges
are not from the "hammer ready to fall" but from inertia moving the firing pin
with enough force to strike and fire the cartridge primer. (The hammer might
fall in some cases too, but that would indicate something in the gun was
broken or modified incorrectly)



--
There are no stupid questions, but there are lots of stupid answers.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

Leon wrote:
Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
I'll send a picture of the real thing too. It is basically 2x4 and 1x4 material.

Leon, I received your file. Thank you very much for sending it! It was
interesting to see the way you
handled the "joinery" for the uprights and that you designated a spot for
each of your parallel clamps.
Thanks for sharing!

Bill
Your welcome Bill. Any time.

Here is what I came up with so far (it took longer than it looks, lol).
If the 2 frames have structural integrity, then it would seem there will
be little to worry about. There is a lot of room for craftsmanship
for knocking oneself out (with stretchers, shelves, etc.).
Do you think there is adequate wood in under the 3/4" plywood "floor here?
I will wrap four lengths of 2by4 around the base that you can see in the
picture.

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

Bill

Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
I'll send a picture of the real thing too. It is basically 2x4
and 1x4 material.
Leon, I received your file. Thank you very much for sending it!
It was interesting to see the way you
handled the "joinery" for the uprights and that you designated a
spot for each of your parallel clamps.
Thanks for sharing!

Bill
Your welcome Bill. Any time.

Here is what I came up with so far (it took longer than it looks,
lol). If the 2 frames have structural integrity, then it would seem
there will be little to worry about. There is a lot of room for
craftsmanship for knocking oneself out (with stretchers, shelves, etc.).
Do you think there is adequate wood in under the 3/4" plywood "floor
here? I will wrap four lengths of 2by4 around the base that you can
see in the picture.


Structurally Bill, you don't even need the 2x4's under the 3/4" plywood. If
you think about it, the 2x4 risers are carrying all of the weight. Wheels
mounted beneath those will transfer all of that weight to the floor, just as
if the 2x4's went all the way to the floor. The 3/4" isn't going to carry
any load between the 2x4's so it is not succeptable to sag or the likes.
It's not even necessary, except to act as a stretcher for the 2x4's. So -
whatever 2x4 framing you decide to put under it is really a matter of your
choice, not so much one of structural necessity. Go with what you eye
likes.

--

-Mike-

On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 23:57:03 -0500, Bill
wrote:

Leon wrote:
Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
I'll send a picture of the real thing too. It is basically 2x4 and 1x4 material.

Leon, I received your file. Thank you very much for sending it! It was
interesting to see the way you
handled the "joinery" for the uprights and that you designated a spot for
each of your parallel clamps.
Thanks for sharing!

Bill
Your welcome Bill. Any time.

Here is what I came up with so far (it took longer than it looks, lol).
If the 2 frames have structural integrity, then it would seem there will
be little to worry about. There is a lot of room for craftsmanship
for knocking oneself out (with stretchers, shelves, etc.).

Furring strip stretchers, no shelves. Use a 1x4 between the sides on
top and you have a place for spring clamps and C-cramps. (I love that
Brit word on occasion.)


Do you think there is adequate wood in under the 3/4" plywood "floor here?
I will wrap four lengths of 2by4 around the base that you can see in the
picture.

Yes. I worry about the small casters shown. The larger they are, the
less chance you have of it falling over WHEN (not if) you hit
something.
http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

Bill

--
With every experience, you alone are painting your
own canvas, thought by thought, choice by choice.
-- Oprah Winfrey

On 1/25/2013 7:25 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
I'll send a picture of the real thing too. It is basically 2x4
and 1x4 material.
Leon, I received your file. Thank you very much for sending it!
It was interesting to see the way you
handled the "joinery" for the uprights and that you designated a
spot for each of your parallel clamps.
Thanks for sharing!

Bill
Your welcome Bill. Any time.

Here is what I came up with so far (it took longer than it looks,
lol). If the 2 frames have structural integrity, then it would seem
there will be little to worry about. There is a lot of room for
craftsmanship for knocking oneself out (with stretchers, shelves, etc.).
Do you think there is adequate wood in under the 3/4" plywood "floor
here? I will wrap four lengths of 2by4 around the base that you can
see in the picture.


Structurally Bill, you don't even need the 2x4's under the 3/4" plywood. If
you think about it, the 2x4 risers are carrying all of the weight. Wheels
mounted beneath those will transfer all of that weight to the floor, just as
if the 2x4's went all the way to the floor. The 3/4" isn't going to carry
any load between the 2x4's so it is not succeptable to sag or the likes.

I was hoping to use the 3/4" floor as a shelf, for stuff like drills
and what have you. Maybe in addition to the two2 2by4s shown, under the
floor, I could add 3 more going the other direction. The simplest
joinery would be to screw them to the floor from above, but I'm not
confident whether that will give satisfactory performance.

Bill


It's not even necessary, except to act as a stretcher for the 2x4's. So -
whatever 2x4 framing you decide to put under it is really a matter of your
choice, not so much one of structural necessity. Go with what you eye
likes.

Bill wrote:


I was hoping to use the 3/4" floor as a shelf, for stuff like drills
and what have you. Maybe in addition to the two2 2by4s shown, under
the floor, I could add 3 more going the other direction. The simplest
joinery would be to screw them to the floor from above, but I'm not
confident whether that will give satisfactory performance.


Yeah - I kinda figured you'd want to use that base as a shelf. That 3/4"
plywood will be plenty strong enough all by itself though, to carry any
weight you're going to want to put on it, with no 2x4's under it. You might
want to put a band around it that is higher than the shelf itself, to form a
lip so that items can't roll or slide off the shelf so easily. That band -
even if it is only made out of 1x2 will add strength, all by itself - though
you don't really need it for what you're doing. Your span down there just
is not that great. You'd be just fine with nothing more than the 3/4"
plywood. All the rest is just up to your preferences. And... that's a part
of all of it, just as well.

--

-Mike-

On 1/25/2013 9:01 AM, Bill wrote:
On 1/25/2013 7:25 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
I'll send a picture of the real thing too. It is basically 2x4
and 1x4 material.
Leon, I received your file. Thank you very much for sending it!
It was interesting to see the way you
handled the "joinery" for the uprights and that you designated a
spot for each of your parallel clamps.
Thanks for sharing!

Bill
Your welcome Bill. Any time.

Here is what I came up with so far (it took longer than it looks,
lol). If the 2 frames have structural integrity, then it would seem
there will be little to worry about. There is a lot of room for
craftsmanship for knocking oneself out (with stretchers, shelves, etc.).
Do you think there is adequate wood in under the 3/4" plywood "floor
here? I will wrap four lengths of 2by4 around the base that you can
see in the picture.


Structurally Bill, you don't even need the 2x4's under the 3/4"
plywood. If
you think about it, the 2x4 risers are carrying all of the weight.
Wheels
mounted beneath those will transfer all of that weight to the floor,
just as
if the 2x4's went all the way to the floor. The 3/4" isn't going to
carry
any load between the 2x4's so it is not succeptable to sag or the likes.

I was hoping to use the 3/4" floor as a shelf, for stuff like drills and
what have you. Maybe in addition to the two2 2by4s shown, under the
floor, I could add 3 more going the other direction. The simplest
joinery would be to screw them to the floor from above, but I'm not
confident whether that will give satisfactory performance.

Bill

Another possibility I am willing to consider is using 2 layers of 3/4"
ply (Columbia "Purebond brand hardwood plywood, since it's
Formaldehyde-free--not Baltic Birch). Of course at +$40 a sheet, that's
a pricier alternative. I'll check with with local lumberyards and see
whether they have started carrying the Purebond products (as LarryJ
keeps reminding me to do!) Maybe 2 layers is overkill for this
application...but maybe not--I know stacking layers of drywall is "routine".

Bill





It's not even necessary, except to act as a stretcher for the 2x4's.
So -
whatever 2x4 framing you decide to put under it is really a matter of
your
choice, not so much one of structural necessity. Go with what you eye
likes.

On 1/25/2013 8:01 AM, Bill wrote:

I was hoping to use the 3/4" floor as a shelf, for stuff like drills and
what have you. Maybe in addition to the two2 2by4s shown, under the
floor, I could add 3 more going the other direction.

IME, you definitely want to keep those two by fours (see last below) ...
AAMOF, I would _strongly_ recommend framing the entire bottom platform.

With that style clamp rack, it is not unusual to have upwards of two
hundred pounds of clamps and accessories when loaded ... the bottom
platform of 3/4" ply, without being framed, will be subject to flexing
by racking forces when it is moved, particularly over uneven surfaces;
and sagging forces, when used at as a shelf, will likely be factor over
time due to the dimensions.

If you want to do have a functional mobile unit that will stand up to
both moving and loading over time, go ahead make that bottom PLATFORM
rigid with a frame.

Personally, I would rip those two by fours in half, and use the
resulting 2 x 2's to do the platform framing ... it won't cost you a
penny more, and I'm confident that you will glad for the extra rigidity
over time.

--
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Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 1/25/2013 8:01 AM, Bill wrote:

The simplest joinery would be to screw them to the floor from above, but
I'm not confident whether that will give satisfactory performance.

That is all that is necessary, particularly when you frame the entire
platform.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

Bill wrote:


Another possibility I am willing to consider is using 2 layers of 3/4"
ply (Columbia "Purebond brand hardwood plywood, since it's
Formaldehyde-free--not Baltic Birch). Of course at +$40 a sheet,
that's a pricier alternative. I'll check with with local lumberyards and
see
whether they have started carrying the Purebond products (as LarryJ
keeps reminding me to do!) Maybe 2 layers is overkill for this
application...but maybe not--I know stacking layers of drywall is
"routine".

Do yourself a favor Bill. Cut a piece of 3/4" plywood the size you are
planning to use. Support it off the floor at all four corners in a similar
manner to what the casters will do. Get up on it. Jump up and down. Park
your car on it. Notice any deflection? You're going into major overkill
here.

Stacking layers of drywall is routine? Maybe for very specific
applications, but not generally.

--

-Mike-

Bill wrote:

I was hoping to use the 3/4" floor as a shelf, for stuff like drills
and what have you. Maybe in addition to the two2 2by4s shown, under
the floor, I could add 3 more going the other direction. The
simplest joinery would be to screw them to the floor from above, but
I'm not confident whether that will give satisfactory performance.

Bill

Another possibility I am willing to consider is using 2 layers of 3/4"
ply (Columbia "Purebond brand hardwood plywood, since it's
Formaldehyde-free--not Baltic Birch). Of course at +$40 a sheet,
that's a pricier alternative. I'll check with with local lumberyards and
see
whether they have started carrying the Purebond products (as LarryJ
keeps reminding me to do!) Maybe 2 layers is overkill for this
application...but maybe not--I know stacking layers of drywall is
"routine".


Hey Bill - here is a handy site you will probably find useful over time...

http://www.woodbin.com/calcs/sagulator.htm

You can select and/or plug in the values applicable to your project, and
immediately see the results. As you will see, 3/4" ply won't sag any
appreciable amount in your application. I quickly threw some numbers at it
and used 100 pounds per foot for the shelf load (not the load presented to
the wheels by the uprights), which is way more than you will ever put on
that shelf. The deflection is only .015".

Bookmark this site - it is very useful. It beats seat of the pants ideas by
a mile.

--

-Mike-

On 1/25/2013 9:40 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:


I was hoping to use the 3/4" floor as a shelf, for stuff like drills
and what have you. Maybe in addition to the two2 2by4s shown, under
the floor, I could add 3 more going the other direction. The simplest
joinery would be to screw them to the floor from above, but I'm not
confident whether that will give satisfactory performance.


Yeah - I kinda figured you'd want to use that base as a shelf. That 3/4"
plywood will be plenty strong enough all by itself though, to carry any
weight you're going to want to put on it, with no 2x4's under it. You might
want to put a band around it that is higher than the shelf itself, to form a
lip so that items can't roll or slide off the shelf so easily. That band -
even if it is only made out of 1x2 will add strength, all by itself -

Thanks Mike, that's the way it's going to be then, just plywood. I'll
pick up a piece of plywood tonight. And I will band the base, and also a
shelf on the top and in the middle. Thank you for your help!

Bill



though
you don't really need it for what you're doing. Your span down there just
is not that great. You'd be just fine with nothing more than the 3/4"
plywood. All the rest is just up to your preferences. And... that's a part
of all of it, just as well.

Bill wrote:
On 1/25/2013 9:40 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:


I was hoping to use the 3/4" floor as a shelf, for stuff like drills
and what have you. Maybe in addition to the two2 2by4s shown, under
the floor, I could add 3 more going the other direction. The
simplest joinery would be to screw them to the floor from above,
but I'm not confident whether that will give satisfactory
performance.

Yeah - I kinda figured you'd want to use that base as a shelf. That
3/4" plywood will be plenty strong enough all by itself though, to
carry any weight you're going to want to put on it, with no 2x4's
under it. You might want to put a band around it that is higher
than the shelf itself, to form a lip so that items can't roll or
slide off the shelf so easily. That band - even if it is only made
out of 1x2 will add strength, all by itself -

Thanks Mike, that's the way it's going to be then, just plywood. I'll
pick up a piece of plywood tonight. And I will band the base, and
also a shelf on the top and in the middle. Thank you for your help!


The only thing I would do differently from what you describe above is that I
would screw the plywood base to the 2x4's instead of the other way around.
In other words - screw up from the bottom. You can use longer screws that
way and they will hold in the 2x4 better than in the plywood.

I just want to be careful not to seem to be steering you. I believe a
project like this is the builder's choice. I was just trying to address
some concerns I saw in your posts relative to strength, and try to help out
in that area. It's one thing to build a certain way just because you want
to, and it's another thing to do so because you mistakenly believe you have
to.

--

-Mike-

On 1/25/2013 9:58 AM, Bill wrote:

Thanks Mike, that's the way it's going to be then, just plywood. I'll
pick up a piece of plywood tonight. And I will band the base, and also a
shelf on the top and in the middle. Thank you for your help!

Adding a lip around the plywood platform is, in effect, "framing" the
platform floor, and will certainly help provide rigidity to the
structure ... a frame, in the form of a "lip", is now above, instead of
below, the platform floor.

Most important thing to take with you:

_Rigidity_ in the entire "frame" (both platform and uprights) is what
will serve you well in a mobile clamp rack when you go to moving it around.

_Fixed_ intermediate shelving will also help to increase that rigidity.

Mine is the exact same style, but made out of angle iron, and even then,
when fully loaded it flexes somewhat when a racking force is applied, as
when moving it ... which is the whole reason for making it mobile.
Keeping this within bounds, particularly with a wooden frame, is your goal.

Good luck, and do keep an eye out for French models.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

"Bill" wrote

Another possibility I am willing to consider is using 2 layers of 3/4" ply
(Columbia "Purebond brand hardwood plywood, since it's
Formaldehyde-free--not Baltic Birch). Of course at +$40 a sheet, that's a
pricier alternative. I'll check with with local lumberyards and see
whether they have started carrying the Purebond products (as LarryJ keeps
reminding me to do!) Maybe 2 layers is overkill for this
application...but maybe not--I know stacking layers of drywall is
"routine".

I have laminated a lot of plywood over the years on various projects. I
made some bench tops that had two layers of 3/4" plywood. But over time, I
figured that was overkill for many applications. Unless you are putting
some serious weight on there, 3/4" is plenty. Or laminate up some 1/2 '
plywood or other smaller sizes. For me, it often came down to whatever was
laying around. If I had enough scrap to make it up, that is what I used. I
also glued and screwed any lamination I did. It just made it a little
sturdier (and heavier).

Another consideration is that any kind of mobile bench, stand, etc. needs to
be stable. And the heavier it is next to the floor, the more stable it will
be when you move it. It also provides a substantial platform to mount the
casters. If you are going to move it much or put any kind of weight on
there, I would brace any vertical components well into that base. A
triangle brace made from plywood, nailed or screwed to the vertical
component and tied into the base would definitely make it more sturdy.

Remember, all kinds of idiots and "home handymen" make wobbly crap. But
real men and craftsman make their project sturdy and functional.

On 1/25/2013 12:13 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:


"Bill" wrote

A triangle brace made from plywood, nailed or screwed
to the vertical component and tied into the base would definitely make
it more sturdy.

Thank you for your other comments and especially the one above. I Could
Not see how to attach the vertical component well.



Remember, all kinds of idiots and "home handymen" make wobbly crap. But
real men and craftsman make their project sturdy and functional.

A lot of good thoughts were posted along these lines! I will try to post
a new diagram soon to help confirm that I understood them.

Cheers,
Bill

On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 09:01:09 -0500, Bill
wrote:

On 1/25/2013 7:25 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
I'll send a picture of the real thing too. It is basically 2x4
and 1x4 material.
Leon, I received your file. Thank you very much for sending it!
It was interesting to see the way you
handled the "joinery" for the uprights and that you designated a
spot for each of your parallel clamps.
Thanks for sharing!

Bill
Your welcome Bill. Any time.

Here is what I came up with so far (it took longer than it looks,
lol). If the 2 frames have structural integrity, then it would seem
there will be little to worry about. There is a lot of room for
craftsmanship for knocking oneself out (with stretchers, shelves, etc.).
Do you think there is adequate wood in under the 3/4" plywood "floor
here? I will wrap four lengths of 2by4 around the base that you can
see in the picture.


Structurally Bill, you don't even need the 2x4's under the 3/4" plywood. If
you think about it, the 2x4 risers are carrying all of the weight. Wheels
mounted beneath those will transfer all of that weight to the floor, just as
if the 2x4's went all the way to the floor. The 3/4" isn't going to carry
any load between the 2x4's so it is not succeptable to sag or the likes.

I was hoping to use the 3/4" floor as a shelf, for stuff like drills
and what have you. Maybe in addition to the two2 2by4s shown, under the
floor, I could add 3 more going the other direction. The simplest
joinery would be to screw them to the floor from above, but I'm not
confident whether that will give satisfactory performance.

I used 7/16" OSB and tubatwos for the base and it carries my chisels,
gouges, clamp add-ons, etc. without trouble.

--
With every experience, you alone are painting your
own canvas, thought by thought, choice by choice.
-- Oprah Winfrey

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:

Another possibility I am willing to consider is using 2 layers of 3/4"
ply (Columbia "Purebond brand hardwood plywood, since it's
Formaldehyde-free--not Baltic Birch). Of course at +$40 a sheet,
that's a pricier alternative. I'll check with with local lumberyards and
see
whether they have started carrying the Purebond products (as LarryJ
keeps reminding me to do!) Maybe 2 layers is overkill for this
application...but maybe not--I know stacking layers of drywall is
"routine".
Do yourself a favor Bill. Cut a piece of 3/4" plywood the size you are
planning to use. Support it off the floor at all four corners in a similar
manner to what the casters will do. Get up on it. Jump up and down. Park
your car on it. Notice any deflection? You're going into major overkill
here.

Stacking layers of drywall is routine? Maybe for very specific
applications, but not generally.

My drywall book made layering drywall sound
pretty typical for commercial applications (IIRC, even going
to 3 layers, on occasion). I guessit depends on how
particular one is about his or her wall.

Say you had a wall that hada lot of wear. It would probably be
faster to put a new 1/4" sheet on topthan to replace the old stuff.
I haven't done it, and there are probably some code issues too.

Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
I'll send a picture of the real thing too. It is basically 2x4 and 1x4 material.

Leon, I received your file. Thank you very much for sending it! It was
interesting to see the way you
handled the "joinery" for the uprights and that you designated a spot for
each of your parallel clamps.
Thanks for sharing!

Bill
Your welcome Bill. Any time.

Here is what I came up with so far (it took longer than it looks, lol).
If the 2 frames have structural integrity, then it would seem there will
be little to worry about. There is a lot of room for craftsmanship
for knocking oneself out (with stretchers, shelves, etc.).
Do you think there is adequate wood in under the 3/4" plywood "floor here?
I will wrap four lengths of 2by4 around the base that you can see in the picture.

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

Bill

Looks plenty sturdy to me. FWIW you might want to consider going taller.
What else are you using the space directly above the clamp rack for? You
may buy longer clamps down the road. If you do go taller be aware of
garage door tracks over head and or a garage door opener.

Bill wrote:
On 1/25/2013 12:13 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:

A triangle brace made from plywood, nailed or screwed
to the vertical component and tied into the base would definitely make
it more sturdy.

Thank you for your other comments and especially the one above. I
Could Not see how to attach the vertical component well.



Remember, all kinds of idiots and "home handymen" make wobbly crap. But
real men and craftsman make their project sturdy and functional.

A lot of good thoughts were posted along these lines! I will try to
post a new diagram soon to help confirm that I understood them.

Cheers,
Bill


I took another shot at my clamp stand diagram:

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

1) Surely my wooden triangles at the bases need to be at little beefier.

2) After all that, I still am not sure how to attach my castors which
have 2.5" wide bases. Surely they should be on the "outside".
All I can think of is to use 3/8" hex bolts, say, to attach a pair of
2by4's on the bottom like I had in my earlier picture,
attaching the castors to them with lag bolts. The the hex bolts would
need to miss the 1.5" wide lip on the base
as they come through floor (and thus would not be attached in an ideal
manner). A better way?

Bill

"Bill" wrote in message
...
Bill wrote:
On 1/25/2013 12:13 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:

A triangle brace made from plywood, nailed or screwed
to the vertical component and tied into the base would definitely make
it more sturdy.

Thank you for your other comments and especially the one above. I Could
Not see how to attach the vertical component well.



Remember, all kinds of idiots and "home handymen" make wobbly crap. But
real men and craftsman make their project sturdy and functional.

A lot of good thoughts were posted along these lines! I will try to post
a new diagram soon to help confirm that I understood them.

Cheers,
Bill


I took another shot at my clamp stand diagram:

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

1) Surely my wooden triangles at the bases need to be at little beefier.

2) After all that, I still am not sure how to attach my castors which have
2.5" wide bases. Surely they should be on the "outside".
All I can think of is to use 3/8" hex bolts, say, to attach a pair of
2by4's on the bottom like I had in my earlier picture,
attaching the castors to them with lag bolts. The the hex bolts would need
to miss the 1.5" wide lip on the base
as they come through floor (and thus would not be attached in an ideal
manner). A better way?

If I was going to use the drawing as a basic design, I would make the
following modifications.

1) Beef up the base/bottom. I would put, at least, a short length of 2 X 4
underneath the plywood on the short size. You could always do a lap joint
and put one the long way too. This would make the base heavier and
stronger. And it would give you a good place to securely mount some
castors. And I have mount caster like this to 2 X 4's many times. Some of
those are still going strong after 30 years.

2) Those "triangles" look like dainty little finger food. What are you? A
woodworker or a chef? To adequately support a vertical component, you need
to place it outside of the leg. But in this case I would just use a board
(or plywood) and just nail (or screw) it to the outside of the platform. If
you got a piece of 2 X 4 underneath there, Just fasten a taller piece of
wood and run it across the whole length of the side. This will tie the leg
securely to the base.

3) Remember, this thing isn't going to work very well unless it is solid.
Make that base heavy and strong. And if you are going to use triangles,
make them much bigger and fasten them to the OUTSIDE of the base and
vertical components. This isn't art or a buffet display. It is a tool that
has to support a fair amount of weight and mover around too. Build it
strong.

Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:
On 1/25/2013 12:13 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:

A triangle brace made from plywood, nailed or screwed
to the vertical component and tied into the base would definitely make
it more sturdy.

Thank you for your other comments and especially the one above. I
Could Not see how to attach the vertical component well.



Remember, all kinds of idiots and "home handymen" make wobbly crap. But
real men and craftsman make their project sturdy and functional.

A lot of good thoughts were posted along these lines! I will try to
post a new diagram soon to help confirm that I understood them.

Cheers,
Bill


I took another shot at my clamp stand diagram:

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

1) Surely my wooden triangles at the bases need to be at little beefier.

2) After all that, I still am not sure how to attach my castors which
have 2.5" wide bases. Surely they should be on the "outside".
All I can think of is to use 3/8" hex bolts, say, to attach a pair of
2by4's on the bottom like I had in my earlier picture,
attaching the castors to them with lag bolts. The the hex bolts would
need to miss the 1.5" wide lip on the base
as they come through floor (and thus would not be attached in an ideal
manner). A better way?

Bill

Attach the casters into the through the plywood bottom and into the 2x
frame. You really only need 2 screws/bolts to keep them in place, gravity
will do the rest. You only need for them to not relocate under there.

So what in the world are the small wedges at the bottom of each 2x4 leg
for?