Is any woodworking maachinery for the hobbyist still made in the USA?

I'm looking for a 14" bandsaw. Delta makes them in the USA, but the
current models don't have a great reputation. Powermatic is making a real
nice 14" bandsaw, but in Taiwan. I would rather see jobs stay in the USA
and pay a bit more for my tools.

Many other types of stationary tools simply aren't made in the USA unless
you want to buy high end models for thousands of dollars.

I was just at Home Depot a few days ago buying tools in the hand tool
promotion. I only bought stuff made in the USA. I may have paid a bit
more, but someone might have a job for another day now. I was going to
buying a socket set, but Husky tools are all made in Taiwan now so those
stayed on the shelf.

Brian Elfert

http://www.shopsmith.com/

I think they still make everything in Dayton, OH Great customer service
department. Nice folks to deal with.

DexAZ

"Brian Elfert" wrote in message
...
Is any woodworking maachinery for the hobbyist still made in the USA?

I'm looking for a 14" bandsaw. Delta makes them in the USA, but the
current models don't have a great reputation. Powermatic is making a real
nice 14" bandsaw, but in Taiwan. I would rather see jobs stay in the USA
and pay a bit more for my tools.

Many other types of stationary tools simply aren't made in the USA unless
you want to buy high end models for thousands of dollars.

I was just at Home Depot a few days ago buying tools in the hand tool
promotion. I only bought stuff made in the USA. I may have paid a bit
more, but someone might have a job for another day now. I was going to
buying a socket set, but Husky tools are all made in Taiwan now so those
stayed on the shelf.

Brian Elfert

On 10 Nov 2003 14:43:49 GMT, Brian Elfert wrote:

Is any woodworking maachinery for the hobbyist still made in the USA?

snip

Not much...
I was shocked to find my Dewalt cordless screwdriver (Christmas
present) was made in China. And my $500 jointer, etc., etc.

You are one in a million. If more people spoke with their
pocketbooks, perhaps we wouldn't have unemployment rates that we do.

For many years I refused to buy Chinese crap, but the stores kept
filling up with more and more of it - it's hard to stem the tide of
consumers who don't give a crap - until THEIR jobs disappear. Most
are oblivious to this trend occurring. They select products on price
and packaging alone - and a year later, when it is lining the local
landfill, line up at the local Target to buy more...

There are still the industrial MFGs, but I haven't actually checked
lately that a Wilton DP or other such brands are still made in the
USA. Most heavy iron work seems to be coming from Eastern Europe and
China these days. It's a trend that is overwhelming. First we built
Japan into a world empire, then Taiwan, South Korea, and now China.
And my personal standard of living is nowhere close to what my dad
maintained. Our boom industries are insurance fraud (chiropractors
and lawyers) and prisons.

JMHO,
Greg

Everytime Congress raises the minimum wage it makes everyone feel good, but it
just ships more jobs to China.




Remove the 'remove' in my address to e:mail me.

Manufacturing in the US has been declining for years and service
companies are on the rise. I usually try to buy the best quality.
I'd like to see more jobs in the US too.

On 10 Nov 2003 14:43:49 GMT, Brian Elfert wrote:

Is any woodworking maachinery for the hobbyist still made in the USA?

I'm looking for a 14" bandsaw. Delta makes them in the USA, but the
current models don't have a great reputation. Powermatic is making a real
nice 14" bandsaw, but in Taiwan. I would rather see jobs stay in the USA
and pay a bit more for my tools.

Many other types of stationary tools simply aren't made in the USA unless
you want to buy high end models for thousands of dollars.

I was just at Home Depot a few days ago buying tools in the hand tool
promotion. I only bought stuff made in the USA. I may have paid a bit
more, but someone might have a job for another day now. I was going to
buying a socket set, but Husky tools are all made in Taiwan now so those
stayed on the shelf.

Brian Elfert

I'd rather have a good tool that worry about somebody's job. Those
folks have to eat to, Brian! I love my Powermatic BS.

You can vote with your dollars, but I'll vote for the specific tool for
the task, regardless of what country it was made in. Perhaps your
"American Made" tools were made in the continental US, but were made by
Vietnamese, Mexicans, Japanese, Chinese, Canadians, English, Germans,
Italians, and yes, perhaps even a Taiwanese or two?

Find something else to obsess over.

dave

Brian Elfert wrote:

Is any woodworking maachinery for the hobbyist still made in the USA?

I'm looking for a 14" bandsaw. Delta makes them in the USA, but the
current models don't have a great reputation. Powermatic is making a real
nice 14" bandsaw, but in Taiwan. I would rather see jobs stay in the USA
and pay a bit more for my tools.

Many other types of stationary tools simply aren't made in the USA unless
you want to buy high end models for thousands of dollars.

I was just at Home Depot a few days ago buying tools in the hand tool
promotion. I only bought stuff made in the USA. I may have paid a bit
more, but someone might have a job for another day now. I was going to
buying a socket set, but Husky tools are all made in Taiwan now so those
stayed on the shelf.

Brian Elfert

but don't YOU like that extra $4 in your paycheck every week?

dave

SteveC1280 wrote:

Everytime Congress raises the minimum wage it makes everyone feel good, but it
just ships more jobs to China.




Remove the 'remove' in my address to e:mail me.

On 10 Nov 2003, Bay Area Dave spake unto rec.woodworking:

I'd rather have a good tool that worry about somebody's job. Those
folks have to eat to, Brian! I love my Powermatic BS.

You can vote with your dollars, but I'll vote for the specific tool
for the task, regardless of what country it was made in. Perhaps your
"American Made" tools were made in the continental US, but were made
by Vietnamese, Mexicans, Japanese, Chinese, Canadians, English,
Germans, Italians, and yes, perhaps even a Taiwanese or two?

Find something else to obsess over.

Gesundheit.

Clarifications:

"somebody's job" - US workers

"Those folks" - workers around the world.

dave



Bay Area Dave wrote:

I'd rather have a good tool that worry about somebody's job. Those
folks have to eat to, Brian! I love my Powermatic BS.

Not much these days. Cheaper labor overseas and rising costs across the board
in the USA take care of that. Every country goes through this to a certain
extent. From agricultural, to industrial, and I suppose now service or
information. Same thing's happening to Japan and even Taiwan. If it helps any,
US companies are probably making more money, it's just going to the execs and
owners.

I like to buy US when I can, but it's not a huge deal for me as long as it's a
good product. I've had Chinese and Taiwanese no-name tools that were beyond
useless, and then a lot of my nice Porter-Cable and Milwaukee stuff is made in
the same places. My DeWalt cordless drills are USA with Japanese batteries.

Buy used if you want really nice stuff. Old Delta, P'matic, and General iron is
a good value.

GTO(John)

Is any woodworking maachinery for the hobbyist still made in the USA?

I'm looking for a 14" bandsaw. Delta makes them in the USA, but the
current models don't have a great reputation. Powermatic is making a real
nice 14" bandsaw, but in Taiwan. I would rather see jobs stay in the USA
and pay a bit more for my tools.

Many other types of stationary tools simply aren't made in the USA unless
you want to buy high end models for thousands of dollars.

I was just at Home Depot a few days ago buying tools in the hand tool
promotion. I only bought stuff made in the USA. I may have paid a bit
more, but someone might have a job for another day now. I was going to
buying a socket set, but Husky tools are all made in Taiwan now so those
stayed on the shelf.

Brian Elfert

Not many, costs too much to produce them here, plus, if you make a tool
to last a long time then you can't sell many of them. Have you noted
that cars last until you make your last payment, then fall to pieces?
We are digging ourselves into a huge hole.

Brian Elfert wrote:

Is any woodworking maachinery for the hobbyist still made in the USA?

Brian Elfert

stevec writes:

Everytime Congress raises the minimum wage it makes everyone feel good, but
it
just ships more jobs to China.

Nonsense. It is NOT the minimum wage jobs that are going to China. Burger
flippers are still in demand, as are counter jumpers at any number of big
boxes. The guys and gals who can't find jobs are those who made 11-12 bucks an
hour and up. Mostly up.

Besides, the flight to China didn't gain steam until several years after the
most current raise to a munificent $5.15 an hour.

Charlie Self

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same
function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of
things." Sir Winston Churchill

If you're a grandpa, you must remember the three-year vehicle. So you've
picked a bad example, in my opinion. I'm _glad_ they don't make 'em like
they used to. I'm running about eight/ten years in salt country right now,
and 150K+, which was unheard of when I was a kid.

As to manufacturing, might I submit:

Foundry/factory puts out smoke, noise, uses up resources. NIMBY!

Got to let people who hate what I stand for as an owner "organize" in my
plant. They risk nothing, I everything to start it.

Have to be a good corporate citizen and pay more taxes even if it bankrupts
me. I don't get to define citizenship, either.

Oh yes, conspiracy theories aside, the money _isn't_ in making 'em, but
selling 'em.


"Grandpa" jsdebooATcomcast.net wrote in message
...
Not many, costs too much to produce them here, plus, if you make a tool
to last a long time then you can't sell many of them. Have you noted
that cars last until you make your last payment, then fall to pieces?
We are digging ourselves into a huge hole.

Brian Elfert wrote:

Is any woodworking maachinery for the hobbyist still made in the USA?

Brian Elfert

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:36:26 -0700, Grandpa jsdebooATcomcast.net
wrote:

Not many, costs too much to produce them here, plus, if you make a tool
to last a long time then you can't sell many of them. Have you noted
that cars last until you make your last payment, then fall to pieces?
We are digging ourselves into a huge hole.


Ah, my Japanese car is over 20 years old. My brother always buys
American cars, but buys a new one every three years because they keep
falling apart. He makes more money than I do.

Dr. Know writes:

You are one in a million. If more people spoke with their
pocketbooks, perhaps we wouldn't have unemployment rates that we do.

For many years I refused to buy Chinese crap, but the stores kept
filling up with more and more of it - it's hard to stem the tide of
consumers who don't give a crap - until THEIR jobs disappear. Most
are oblivious to this trend occurring. They select products on price

I work for a newspaper. Unless everything goes to the web, we'll still be
around. So many people like to read real paper that newspapers will be
around for some time yet.

Retailers still need to advertise no matter where they get the good, so my
job is reasonably secure.

Brian Elfert

"George" writes:

If you're a grandpa, you must remember the three-year vehicle. So you've
picked a bad example, in my opinion. I'm _glad_ they don't make 'em like
they used to. I'm running about eight/ten years in salt country right now,
and 150K+, which was unheard of when I was a kid.

Cars are much better now. Minnesota used to be the land of the rust
bucket. Now, in general, more cars succumb to accidents than to rust. I
rarely see a rust bucket anymore unless it is pretty old like 1980s
vintage.

Brian Elfert

Dr. Know wrote in
:

On 10 Nov 2003 14:43:49 GMT, Brian Elfert wrote:

Is any woodworking maachinery for the hobbyist still made in the USA?

snip

Not much...
I was shocked to find my Dewalt cordless screwdriver (Christmas
present) was made in China. And my $500 jointer, etc., etc.

You are one in a million. If more people spoke with their
pocketbooks, perhaps we wouldn't have unemployment rates that we do.

For many years I refused to buy Chinese crap, but the stores kept
filling up with more and more of it - it's hard to stem the tide of
consumers who don't give a crap - until THEIR jobs disappear. Most
are oblivious to this trend occurring. They select products on price
and packaging alone - and a year later, when it is lining the local
landfill, line up at the local Target to buy more...

There are still the industrial MFGs, but I haven't actually checked
lately that a Wilton DP or other such brands are still made in the
USA. Most heavy iron work seems to be coming from Eastern Europe and
China these days. It's a trend that is overwhelming. First we built
Japan into a world empire, then Taiwan, South Korea, and now China.
And my personal standard of living is nowhere close to what my dad
maintained. Our boom industries are insurance fraud (chiropractors
and lawyers) and prisons.

JMHO,
Greg


The last I checked, Stanley brand "slip joint pliers" were made offshore.
The Channellock brand was still made here in the States.

r


--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.

"Brian Elfert" wrote in message news:3fafe433$0$75901
I work for a newspaper. Unless everything goes to the web, we'll still be
around. So many people like to read real paper that newspapers will be
around for some time yet.

Retailers still need to advertise no matter where they get the good, so my
job is reasonably secure.

Brian Elfert

Still be around, but less of you. Newspaper circulation has been in decline
for some years now. People would rather watch the news on TV or listen on
the radio during their commute. I can think of a dozen major cities that
have lost at least one of their papers in the past 10 or 15 years.
Ed

Hi Charlie,

I'm a long time reader, occasional contributor to the WREC. I submit that you
are wrong and I am right about the minimum wage jobs going to China. I am
going back to China this Sunday for the second time in a month. Without going
into great detail, I visit production factories in China that used to be in the
USA. 90% of the people who work there are doing the manual labor that
Americans used to do. More and more companies are moving jobs to China because
of our minimum wage, out-of-control health care costs, etc. What really scares
me is the new trend to move high-end jobs, like engineering and software to
China and now India.




Remove the 'remove' in my address to e:mail me.

and much higher. Cisco Systems has moved teams of development and
software testing to India, HP, MS and American Express all moved call
centers there.

minimum wage has nothing to do with offshore jobs, just greed, plain ole
Merican greed.

BRuce

Charlie Self wrote:
stevec writes:


Everytime Congress raises the minimum wage it makes everyone feel good, but
it
just ships more jobs to China.


Nonsense. It is NOT the minimum wage jobs that are going to China. Burger
flippers are still in demand, as are counter jumpers at any number of big
boxes. The guys and gals who can't find jobs are those who made 11-12 bucks an
hour and up. Mostly up.

Besides, the flight to China didn't gain steam until several years after the
most current raise to a munificent $5.15 an hour.

Charlie Self

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same
function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of
things." Sir Winston Churchill

We need to send all those Chinese jobs....too Mexico...so they can stay
home.......


"Phisherman" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:36:26 -0700, Grandpa jsdebooATcomcast.net
wrote:

Not many, costs too much to produce them here, plus, if you make a tool
to last a long time then you can't sell many of them. Have you noted
that cars last until you make your last payment, then fall to pieces?
We are digging ourselves into a huge hole.


Ah, my Japanese car is over 20 years old. My brother always buys
American cars, but buys a new one every three years because they keep
falling apart. He makes more money than I do.

In article ,
Bay Area Dave wrote:
I'd rather have a good tool that worry about somebody's job. ...

This seems to translate to, "I've got mine."

You can vote with your dollars, but I'll vote for the specific tool for
the task, regardless of what country it was made in. ...

It should be possible to have both - if people cared to buy high
quality tools made in the USA, then they would be available. I'll pay
more, and understand that some of that will come back to me.
--
--henry schaffer

Brian Elfert wrote in message m...
Is any woodworking maachinery for the hobbyist still made in the USA?

I'm looking for a 14" bandsaw. Delta makes them in the USA, but the
current models don't have a great reputation. Powermatic is making a real
nice 14" bandsaw, but in Taiwan. I would rather see jobs stay in the USA
and pay a bit more for my tools.

Many other types of stationary tools simply aren't made in the USA unless
you want to buy high end models for thousands of dollars.

I was just at Home Depot a few days ago buying tools in the hand tool
promotion. I only bought stuff made in the USA. I may have paid a bit
more, but someone might have a job for another day now. I was going to
buying a socket set, but Husky tools are all made in Taiwan now so those
stayed on the shelf.

Brian Elfert

This is a toughie.

First off, I don't think anyone should buy junk, no matter where it is
made.

However, one could push the concept further and insist on buying only
items made in Wisconsin, or whatever it is you reside. After all, why
put someone out of work in Wisconsin by buying something made in
California?

Turn this around and look at it from the viewpoint of someone in
Poorcounrty, Aftrica. He can make a quality product and sell if for
less, so we tell him that he ain't an Americian, so he can starve no
matter how good his stuff is?

Or, maybe good ol' Uncle Sam should put a tarrif on imported tools, no
matter how good or bad, so we can all pay more and keep a few more
overpriced workers employed.

(Remove tung from cheek.)

I think everyone should have a fair change to make a living by selling
a good product at a fair price, no matter who he is or where he is.
All else being equal, I'd rather buy from my neighbor than someone
half way around the world - Its easier to get my hands around his
throat if something goes wrong.

I also think that the typical US consumer doesn't know a quality
product when he sees it, so he has only two things left to make a
buying decision on - price and features. Since most of us don't have
the money for all the bells and whistle, we go with the lowest price -
usually meaning cheap and foreign. I think we need to consider
ourselves lucky that there are as many good products at reasonable
prices as there are. A lot of that is due to the ability of some poor
slob living in a hut to do quality work at a horribly low wage.
There's more to the world than the US of A - for better or for worse.

Allen

I'll pay more when it's worth it. I've got a Toyota, too... (I think it
might have been built here, but I really don't care as long as it is
superior quality, which it is!)

dave

Henry E Schaffer wrote:

In article ,
Bay Area Dave wrote:

I'd rather have a good tool that worry about somebody's job. ...


This seems to translate to, "I've got mine."


You can vote with your dollars, but I'll vote for the specific tool for
the task, regardless of what country it was made in. ...


It should be possible to have both - if people cared to buy high
quality tools made in the USA, then they would be available. I'll pay
more, and understand that some of that will come back to me.

BRuce wrote in message news:1068494853.663258@sj-nntpcache-3...


minimum wage has nothing to do with offshore jobs, just greed, plain ole
Merican greed.

BRuce

Greed is a portion of the equation. Consumers DEMAND low prices. Are you
willing to pay a higher price for USA made goods? Put a Brand X saw from
USA and one from China side by side. Only difference is the price tag, the
US made is $100 more. Make your choice. Just read this newsgroup about
tools and see the questions about getting the best deal or lowest price.

Back in the 80's when PCs were hitting the home market, a keyboard made in
the US was about $130. Today you can get one made overseas for $10.

At work I just bought 2 containers of material from Korea. I saved the
company about $8000. Am I greedy? No, because my competitors are doing the
same thing and pricing the final product accordingly, not making greater (if
any!) profit from it. If I did not do so, we'd be out of business in six
months.
Ed

Phisherman wrote:

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:36:26 -0700, Grandpa jsdebooATcomcast.net
wrote:

Not many, costs too much to produce them here, plus, if you make a tool
to last a long time then you can't sell many of them. Have you noted
that cars last until you make your last payment, then fall to pieces?
We are digging ourselves into a huge hole.

Ah, my Japanese car is over 20 years old. My brother always buys
American cars, but buys a new one every three years because they keep
falling apart. He makes more money than I do.

- I've a 2002 Suburban I bought as a retirement gift to myself 16 months
ago and love it, 11k miles so far. The jury is out on how long it'll
last when we start travelling the US though.
- I've a 96 Saturn SL2, can't complain about it either. 35mpg road, 29
in town & has 65k miles. Great car so far - wife loves it.
- I've a 92 Ford 4x4 Supercab (300cid & 5spd OD trans), engine is pretty
good but the rest of it is ****. WW switch is AFU and certainly doesn't
need a dozen variable speeds. Ign switch won't center. Mirrors both
broke the housings instead of laying into the side of the door when I
needed them to. Been thru 1 clutch and 2 throwout bearings, and 1
transmission ($1500) and I did the R&R. Been thru 3 air conditioning
compressors so far. It eats front pads annually. Dash broke from lower
rt corner and rattles & shakes from hitting a speed bump, a freaking
normal speed bump! I haul no heavy loads, rarely tow except our 15'
camping trailer 2-3 times a summer and do not overload or abuse - ever.
Has 92k miles & was bought new.
- last one is an 89 Daihatsu, uglier than homemade sin, like an egg on 4
wheels, too ugly for anyone to steal but runs and runs and runs with
never a problem. 40 mpg in town and dependable. Has 92k miles & bought
w/ 25k miles. Best damned vehicle I ever owned.

Brian Elfert wrote:

"George" writes:


If you're a grandpa, you must remember the three-year vehicle. So you've
picked a bad example, in my opinion. I'm _glad_ they don't make 'em like
they used to. I'm running about eight/ten years in salt country right now,
and 150K+, which was unheard of when I was a kid.


Cars are much better now. Minnesota used to be the land of the rust
bucket. Now, in general, more cars succumb to accidents than to rust. I
rarely see a rust bucket anymore unless it is pretty old like 1980s
vintage.

Thats probably due to better paint and undercoats, not the mechanical
side of the vehicle, unless its dying before it has a chance to rust.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head (hey, that on topic, right?)
with that one. Why else would be produce something that is not intended
to last except for greed, and some stimulation to the economy I suppose.
However R&D for a lot of companies (not all thank goodness) is almost
non existant.

Now that I'm retired I'm seeing lots of sand fleas being brought in for
software jobs. Is this because they'll work for less or because they
bitch less than we do? Or because they have limited length visas and
make what they can, take it home and live like kings? Any way you slice
it, we're still digging ourselves deeper and deeper as we depend more
and more upon others to provide us with the basics.

BRuce wrote:

and much higher. Cisco Systems has moved teams of development and
software testing to India, HP, MS and American Express all moved call
centers there.

minimum wage has nothing to do with offshore jobs, just greed, plain ole
Merican greed.

Ed Pawlowski writes:


Back in the 80's when PCs were hitting the home market, a keyboard made in
the US was about $130. Today you can get one made overseas for $10.

Yeah. I've got one of those. I use the Microsoft shaped keyboard. Bought one of
the first ones out for a total of just a shade under 100 bucks. When it started
getting a little iffy, I went looking and found a similar keyboard...or so I
was told. That was about 30 bucks. At this point, I'm using the old keyboard,
cleaning it often, even though the keys still stick enough to screw up my
typing.

Greed is not a component, nor is a desire to save money on important
components. I'd GLADLY pay the same for another keyboard like this one. Even a
bit more. Forget it. They no longer exist and probably haven't for several
years.

Charlie Self

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same
function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of
things." Sir Winston Churchill

stevec writes:

'm a long time reader, occasional contributor to the WREC. I submit that you
are wrong and I am right about the minimum wage jobs going to China. I am
going back to China this Sunday for the second time in a month. Without
going
into great detail, I visit production factories in China that used to be in
the
USA. 90% of the people who work there are doing the manual labor that
Americans used to do.

But those are not minimum wage jobs in the U.S. My guess is they're also not
minimum wage jobs in China, but maximum wage is so much lower that it's like
paying half the minimum here.

I really don't see how you can equate problems with minimum wage with people
who make two and three times minimum wage.

What really scares
me is the new trend to move high-end jobs, like engineering and software to
China and now India.

It isn't the loss of the high end hotshots that is the problem. It's the guys
and gals who build the machinery, in factories owned by Americans, kept on
American soil that we're losing, and they're the important ones. We're in deep
doodoo as our dearly beloved prez says if we are attacked by anyone who meets
with China's approval these days. If we can't manufacture tanks, guns, bombs
and bullets here, we're screwed, regardless of what the top echelon thinks. And
we're approaching that stage at a rapid pace. It was our manufacturing
capacity, the awakening of a sleeping giant, that won World War II. If we
couldn't have supplied our soliders and most of those of the rest of what came
to be known as the free world, we lost. We did it. Or, rather, our parents and
grandparents did it. I don't think we can.


Charlie Self

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same
function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of
things." Sir Winston Churchill

Charlie Self wrote:

It was our manufacturing
capacity, the awakening of a sleeping giant, that won World War II.
If we couldn't have supplied our soliders and most of those of the
rest of what came to be known as the free world, we lost. We did it.
Or, rather, our parents and grandparents did it. I don't think we
can.

My understanding (which could be wrong) is the U.S. lacks many of the
necessary quantities of raw materials (like oil and many metals) for
extended self-sustained manufacturing anyway.

-- Mark

otforme (Charlie Self) wrote in
:

Ed Pawlowski writes:


Back in the 80's when PCs were hitting the home market, a keyboard
made in the US was about $130. Today you can get one made overseas for
$10.

Yeah. I've got one of those. I use the Microsoft shaped keyboard.
Bought one of the first ones out for a total of just a shade under 100
bucks. When it started getting a little iffy, I went looking and found
a similar keyboard...or so I was told. That was about 30 bucks. At
this point, I'm using the old keyboard, cleaning it often, even though
the keys still stick enough to screw up my typing.

Greed is not a component, nor is a desire to save money on important
components. I'd GLADLY pay the same for another keyboard like this
one. Even a bit more. Forget it. They no longer exist and probably
haven't for several years.

http://www.pckeyboard.com/

Wrong all the way. From engine through galvanizing through suspension, the
cars are built better. You're one of the few who would contest that. 100K
used to be an old car. Now it's middle-aged.

"Grandpa" jsdebooATcomcast.net wrote in message
...
Thats probably due to better paint and undercoats, not the mechanical
side of the vehicle, unless its dying before it has a chance to rust.

"Edwin Pawlowski" writes:


Greed is a portion of the equation. Consumers DEMAND low prices. Are you
willing to pay a higher price for USA made goods? Put a Brand X saw from
USA and one from China side by side. Only difference is the price tag, the
US made is $100 more. Make your choice. Just read this newsgroup about

I had a Crescent wrench in one hand for $18 and a Husky wrench in the
other hand for $10. The Husky was better because it was polished. I
bought the Crescent simply because it is made in the USA.

Brian Elfert

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:13:01 -0500, Dr. Know
wrote:

You are one in a million. If more people spoke with their
pocketbooks, perhaps we wouldn't have unemployment rates that we do.

The problem is, people DO speak with their pocketbooks. Personally, I
don't care where it's built, so long as it's quality construction for
a reasonable price.

The same goes for cars. The last two Fords I've owned have been
complete crap. The latest one has been recalled by the factory twice,
has had the transmission fail within the first year and it STILL
doesn't work right, it's been nothing but a nightmare.

The Toyota that my wife had when we got married lasted over 300k miles
and 12 years with no significant problems.

You think I'm going to buy American with that kind of track record?

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:36:04 GMT, Bay Area Dave wrote:

but don't YOU like that extra $4 in your paycheck every week?

If you have a job, sure.

I have only one bench grinder in my shop, mostly for sharpening lawn
mower blades. It's a 3/4HP, costs $28, and made in China. Really
cheap, been running for years, and useful. I doubt the USA could make
them that cheap.

I have to agree with you on the American cars for the most part. But what
gets me is that many Toyota, Honda's and Nissans are now made in America. So
it isn't the American worker.

Rich
"Brian Henderson" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:13:01 -0500, Dr. Know
wrote:

You are one in a million. If more people spoke with their
pocketbooks, perhaps we wouldn't have unemployment rates that we do.

The problem is, people DO speak with their pocketbooks. Personally, I
don't care where it's built, so long as it's quality construction for
a reasonable price.

The same goes for cars. The last two Fords I've owned have been
complete crap. The latest one has been recalled by the factory twice,
has had the transmission fail within the first year and it STILL
doesn't work right, it's been nothing but a nightmare.

The Toyota that my wife had when we got married lasted over 300k miles
and 12 years with no significant problems.

You think I'm going to buy American with that kind of track record?

Steve:

I think you need to wake up about jobs going oversea's. I work selling
software and all of my clients are moving their IT staff over to India,
China and Phillipines. It is call L-1 Visa's and offshoring. These are
$40,000 -100,000+ jobs. Never coming back. Go to Businessweek.com and search
on L-1 Visa or outsourcing. You will be suprised that it is also accounting,
radiology, engineering, architects, drafting,and on and on.

Rich


"SteveC1280" wrote in message
...
Hi Charlie,

I'm a long time reader, occasional contributor to the WREC. I submit that
you
are wrong and I am right about the minimum wage jobs going to China. I am
going back to China this Sunday for the second time in a month. Without
going
into great detail, I visit production factories in China that used to be
in the
USA. 90% of the people who work there are doing the manual labor that
Americans used to do. More and more companies are moving jobs to China
because
of our minimum wage, out-of-control health care costs, etc. What really
scares
me is the new trend to move high-end jobs, like engineering and software
to
China and now India.




Remove the 'remove' in my address to e:mail me.

In article , wrote:

The last two Fords I've owned have been
complete crap. The latest one has been recalled by the factory twice,
has had the transmission fail within the first year and it STILL
doesn't work right, it's been nothing but a nightmare.

The Toyota that my wife had when we got married lasted over 300k miles
and 12 years with no significant problems.

You think I'm going to buy American with that kind of track record?

You're throwing out the good along with the bad IMO.

Like you, I've had a few bad experiences with Fords. So I don't buy Fords
anymore. I *do* buy other American cars.

Our last four cars have been General Motors products of one type or another
(an Olds, two Buicks, and a GMC truck) and we have been quite happy with all
of them. One of these was an '84 Le Sabre that we bought in '91 at 55K miles,
and was still running fine when we sold it in '02 at 208K.

Every one of these has been much easier, and cheaper, to maintain than either
of the foreign cars I've had (a Mazda and a Fiat -- now *there* was a true
piece of crap: Fix It Again Today). So should I not buy foreign cars, because
of "that kind of track record"?

Don't see why I should, considering my positive experiences with GM cars...
but I won't rule it out, either (except in the case of Fiat).

--
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?