I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the crap
measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the world
uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).G

Lee wrote:

| Why shouldn't I go to what the
| rest of the world uses? Metric.

No reason not to. If you do, then I'll join you as soon as I can by
metric sized tools, bits, wood, etc at a better price than I can buy
inch sizes...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

ooops sorry Morris
"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
Lee wrote:

| Why shouldn't I go to what the
| rest of the world uses? Metric.

No reason not to. If you do, then I'll join you as soon as I can by
metric sized tools, bits, wood, etc at a better price than I can buy
inch sizes...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Not looking at tools etc. Looking at replacing fractional US measurements
"Morris Dovey" No reason not to. If you do, then I'll join you as soon as
I can by
metric sized tools, bits, wood, etc at a better price than I can buy
inch sizes...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

On Oct 11, 6:12 pm, "Lee" wrote:
I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the crap
measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the world
uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).G

I grew up with metric. A 10cm x 10cm Cube of water weighs a kilo and
is a litre as well. (At 4C)
Then, after I graduated high school in The Netherlands, I came to
Canada. Inches and feet and pounds and gallons..then baaaaack again to
metric.

Now I buy my meat by the pound, my gas by the litre and my solid
surface sheets 30 INCHES by 12 FEET.
Half of a quarter is an eigth. 30+ degrees C is not hot, 90 F is hot.
2 pints of beer is not a lot, a litre is.
A ton is as heavy as a tonne, as far as I am concerned, and the whole
world should switch over to smidgens and tiches.

"Robatoy" wrote

A ton is as heavy as a tonne, as far as I am concerned, and the whole
world should switch over to smidgens and tiches.

While I much prefer RCH's and gnats asses, I do occasionally use the metric
side of a ruler when I can't extrapolate the precision I want with the inch
side ... but remembering which mark it was ten minutes later can be a big
problem.

And, I have gotten real good at converting fractions to decimal equivalents
for entry in my CAD program, mainly because it's easier to enter distances
for that particular software that way as it is "default", and I can't ever
remember from one boot to the next how to change "default".

(There's a common thread, but I can't remember what it was ...)

But, I fondly remember, and could still make immediate change in a poker
game to this day, in guinea's, sovereigns, half sovereigns, pounds, crowns,
half crowns, florins, shillings, pence, sixpence, threepence, halfpenny and
farthings ... and am saddened that they are things of the past.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/30/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Lee" wrote:

I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of
the crap
measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the
world
uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).G

Time is on the side of metric.

40 years ago when the metric change was proposed, the investment in
tooling, supplies, supporting infrastructure in the USA was
tremendous.

Today a lot of that investment has become obsolete or consumed.

The change today would be easier, tomorrow easier yet.

Lew

Lee wrote:

I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the crap
measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the world
uses? Metric.

I will as soon as I can buy a 11.90625 millimeter and 5.159375
millimeter socket (respectively).

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

Your missing my point. I am talking about using metric in the current time
for measuring...not replacing what we have now when it comes to tools
"Nova" wrote in I will as soon as I can buy a
11.90625 millimeter and 5.159375
millimeter socket (respectively).

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

on 10/11/2007 6:12 PM Lee said the following:
I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the crap
measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the world
uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).G

I'm with you. My math is a lot better with 10s, 100s, and 1000s, than
cups, pints, ounces, quarts, gallons, inches, feet, yards, etc.
My kids were learning metric in school 40 years ago in anticipation of a
change that never happened.
Like Professional Soccer, which never gained a hold, despite stars like
Pele.
What makes it worse is that some here in the US are using metric, like
in the scientific world.
I think the main reason not to change is to maintain a link with the UK.
I know that a meter is about 39 inches, but that's about it.
I'm tired of having to possess both SAE and metric tools to work on my
cars. Even foreign cars built here in the US have metric bolts, nuts,
and screws.
Keep the Fahrenheit scale tho.
I'm 70, but I can change.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

We use metric measurement in the business of plywood/film faced
plywood/blockboard/MDF/Hardboard and so on .All our plywood businesses were
finished by using metric measurement, even if we do business with US, UK or
Ca customers . All our customers from Europe, Africa, Middle East, other
Asian countries use metric measurement .

--
Mason Pan
Blog: http://www.plywood.cc/

"Lee" wrote in message
et...
I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the
crap measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the
world uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).G

Lee wrote:
Not looking at tools etc. Looking at replacing fractional US measurements

So, do what you want. What are you measuring and why would it make any
difference to anyone else but you?

Me, I'm same age, trained as engineer so mks are familiar in their
place, but for day-to-day usage, British measurements are just what
"comes naturally". For measuring in woodworking a 64th is more than
adequate for virtually any and everything, a 32nd is usually good enough
except for matching joints where to make things easy one generally uses
a marking gauge and transfer marks, not actual physical measurements,
anyway. For estimating, I _know_ what an inch is in terms of a length
of particular finger joint, eight inches is a convenient spread, lots of
practice lets me pace of a yard pretty doggone accurately, ... Any of
those in even cgs units is something I'd have to start over at age 8 to
have a hope of learning with such fluency. No point in it as far as I
can see...

$0.02, ymmv, etc., of course, ...

--

"Morris Dovey" No reason not to. If you do, then I'll join you as soon as
I can by
metric sized tools, bits, wood, etc at a better price than I can buy
inch sizes...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

on 10/11/2007 7:33 PM Lew Hodgett said the following:
"Lee" wrote:


I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of

the crap

measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the

world

uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).G


Time is on the side of metric.

40 years ago when the metric change was proposed, the investment in
tooling, supplies, supporting infrastructure in the USA was
tremendous.


Yes, and those companies that made tools, now could sell twice as many
tools than if there was only one measurement.
"A set of SAE wrenches and a set of Metric wrenches, please."

Today a lot of that investment has become obsolete or consumed.

The change today would be easier, tomorrow easier yet.

Lew





--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Lee wrote:
: I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the crap
: measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the world
: uses? Metric. Please no political BS.


:Seems like using 10's is a lot easier.


A common thought about metric, and a fallacy as far as I'm concerned.
It's easier to divide and multiply by multiples of 10 in metric, but so what?
"Jeez, I think the overhang on that tabletop looks a bit scanty, so I
think I'll try ten times more"? "Heck, that shelf is too long. Better
try a tenth that length and see how it looks"?

If you think about it, imperial measurements (in 16ths and 12ths) have more
integral divisors (2, 3, 4, 6, 8) than metric ones do (2 and 5).


Plus, the imperial units correspond better to humanscale proportions (as
le Corbusier and othr designers discovered when they switched ou of metric).

It's inches, feet, yards, furlongs, cubits, and barleycorns for me.


A pint's a pound, the world round.

-- Andy Barss

Mason Pan wrote:
: We use metric measurement in the business of plywood/film faced
: plywood/blockboard/MDF/Hardboard and so on .All our plywood businesses were
: finished by using metric measurement, even if we do business with US, UK or
: Ca customers .

Aren't "metric" plywood sheets something like 1200 x 2400 millimeters,
which is oddly very close to four by eight feet?


And aren't bords in Europe sold in 2.4 meter lengths? Not a natural
unit in metric.


-- Andy Barss

On Oct 11, 6:12 pm, "Lee" wrote:
I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the crap
measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the world
uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).G

Metric is to blame for 15/32" plywood -- it's the nearest
Imperial approximation of whatever some overseas plywood
factory is producing in metric, specifically 12 mm.

Imperial units math is really quite easy. To divide a
fraction by 2, simply multiply the denominator by 2.

A stairbuilder I used to work with had a laminated piece of paper with
a conversion table that he used. He could switch back and forth
between metric and inches as he needed. I think it went to 32nds. It
seemed silly to me at the time, but now I can see that it might be
useful.

"Lee" wrote in message
et...
I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the
crap measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the
world uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).G


There are absolutely no valid reasons NOT to use metric. There are plenty of
people afraid of change. Use it steady for a few days and you'll wonder why
we did not change decades ago. We use it for our money, we use it for some
beverages.

Lee wrote:
I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of
the crap measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the
rest of the world uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like
using 10's is a lot easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).G

What with China making all the tools, we're slowly indoctrinating them into
the Imperial system. Then all the stuff that goes to Europe, etc., will be
in FPS measurements and all will come back to that which has worked so well.

Look, MKS (Meter/Kilogram/Second) is okay for science and whatnot, but it
just doesn't work for human use.

"A pint's a pound the world around" and it will be again.

HeyBub wrote:
Look, MKS (Meter/Kilogram/Second) is okay for science and whatnot, but it
just doesn't work for human use.



But it could. The conversion is what's difficult. When gasoline is sold by the
liter, who gives a **** about the gallon? We'd see one gas station selling gas
for 64 cents per liter and the station on the other side of the street is
selling it for 69 cents, how tough is it to figure out? We will figure out that
our cars can go 500 km on a tank, which will hold maybe 60 liters. It won't
take all that long to become comfortable with it. If Europe was able to manage
it, why the hell couldn't we? Aren't we smart enough?



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

| There are absolutely no valid reasons NOT to use metric. There are
| plenty of people afraid of change. Use it steady for a few days
| and you'll wonder why we did not change decades ago. We use it for
| our money, we use it for some beverages.

I'd like to agree, but can't. I came up with a gizmo (photos at link
below) that allows ShopBot users to zero all three axes to a jig or
workpiece in less than a minute and a bunch of guys wanted 'em for
their shops. The first customer was in Sweden so I figured it'd be
cool to go metric...

Ok - I needed aluminum bar stock at _least_ 3/8" thick (1/2" would be
better) and went to the catalog. No metric stock available - so
ordered 1/2" x 6" x 72". Shrug.

Now I needed smaller stock thicker than 1/16" and wider than 1/2".
Back to the catalog for 1/8" x 3/4" x 72". Shrug again. Told myself it
wasn't a big deal, that no one would care what the actual measurements
of these parts was, so system wasn't important.

Then I needed button head cap screws to attach the thin pieces to the
edges of the thick one. Hmm - M5 x .8 x 12 (3mm key) are $14.27/C and
#10-32 x 1/2 (1/8 key) are $7.76/C. At this point my enthusiasm for
metric was beginning to fade a bit.

So I flipped to Allen wrenches. 3 mm hex keys were listed at $11.95/C
and 1/8" hex keys were listed at $5.85/C. (I wrote 'em down)

On to spiral-flute bottoming taps - a #10-32 was listed at $8.20 and
an M5 x .8 was $13.45 - I only needed two (I've learned never to order
just one of a given tap size because that's /inviting/ Murphy to the
party.)

I already have a set of fractional, numbered, and letter size drills
(#10-32 needs a #21 drill for the tapped hole and a #9 for clearance
hole) from Harbor Fright. I turned to look up the price on a but for
an M5 tapped hole and realized that my handy char didn't provide any
info as to what size bit I needed for /any/ metric tapped hole.

Added up the costs I /did/ know at that point, shrugged a last time,
and picked up the phone to order everything in inches.

Would you have done differently?

(The software that goes with the gizmo has been written to
automatically set itself up wo work in either inches or mm at
runtime - I figured that I owed my metric friend at least that much
consideration.)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/SuperZero.html

"Morris Dovey" wrote:

The first customer was in Sweden so I figured it'd be
cool to go metric...

snip a list of US v metric price comparisons

Added up the costs I /did/ know at that point, shrugged a last time,
and picked up the phone to order everything in inches.

Would you have done differently?

I would have given the customer a choice along with the respective
prices.

It becomes his choice.

He may have some very good reasons for needing metric.

Lew

"HeyBub" wrote in message
Look, MKS (Meter/Kilogram/Second) is okay for science and whatnot, but it
just doesn't work for human use.


It works in 80% of the world. It CAN work here if we want it to.

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

| There are absolutely no valid reasons NOT to use metric. There are
| plenty of people afraid of change. Use it steady for a few days
| and you'll wonder why we did not change decades ago. We use it for
| our money, we use it for some beverages.

I'd like to agree, but can't. I came up with a gizmo (photos at link
below) that allows ShopBot users to zero all three axes to a jig or
workpiece in less than a minute and a bunch of guys wanted 'em for
their shops. The first customer was in Sweden so I figured it'd be
cool to go metric...

Ok - I needed aluminum bar stock at _least_ 3/8" thick (1/2" would be
better) and went to the catalog. No metric stock available - so
ordered 1/2" x 6" x 72". Shrug.

The problems you encountered were due to mixing. Metric stock is readily
available outside the US and some places here but not very plentiful. If we
made the switch universally, your problem would not exist. You made a good
point as to why we should change to be compatible in a world economy.

In my case, I can't buy US made machines for our industry so everything is
metric. Simple to work with.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

Lew Hodgett wrote:
| "Morris Dovey" wrote:
|
|| The first customer was in Sweden so I figured it'd be
|| cool to go metric...
|
| snip a list of US v metric price comparisons
|
|| Added up the costs I /did/ know at that point, shrugged a last
|| time, and picked up the phone to order everything in inches.
|
|| Would you have done differently?
|
| I would have given the customer a choice along with the respective
| prices.
|
| It becomes his choice.
|
| He may have some very good reasons for needing metric.

Perhaps, but he didn't tell me that he needed a device built with
metric components. When I asked, he told me that his machine was
normally set up to work in mm - which is what prompted me to make the
software self-adjust at runtime.

He did get one other (unasked-for) consideration: because his location
isn't far from salt water, the screws and probes that are part of the
sets are all 18-8 stainless.

It'll still do exactly the job he wants it to do.

My point to Ed is that there's a significant cost disadvantage for
Americans attempting to produce metric products in the USA.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

| The problems you encountered were due to mixing. Metric stock is
| readily available outside the US and some places here but not very
| plentiful. If we made the switch universally, your problem would
| not exist. You made a good point as to why we should change to be
| compatible in a world economy.

"Available outside the US" doesn't do much for me here in Iowa. :-(

If we made the switch universally, I'd have to replace more stuff in
my shop than I'd be comfortable with - and I don't even want to think
about reworking all my drawings, product specifications, part program
software, and bills of materials. Even for a small operation like
mine, it'd be difficult and expensive.

| In my case, I can't buy US made machines for our industry so
| everything is metric. Simple to work with.

Hmm. [ light bulb just went on ] I could solve all my difficulties by
outsourcing everything to some place where everything is metric.
Simple indeed. eg

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 22:12:38 GMT, "Lee" wrote:

I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the crap
measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the world
uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).G

Go buy a couple of metric tape measures and have at it. I think you
could use whatever you like. You might have to replace bits and maybe
other things but as far as measuring goes, what difference does it
make as long as you always use the same thing? Of course for me, all
of the code requirements are still in inches so I'd have some
converting to do.

BTW, the scale on my Bies has both but the inch scale is on the top
where you can almost see it under the top of the pointer. I kinda
wish it was the other way around. I haven't spent the $15 for a
replacement scale in inches yet but I may have to.

Mike O.

Why change something that so many people understand and have the tools for
in their boxes. I learned fractions (imperial) first, then in high school
was taught metric as the wave of the future, that was 1970 to 1974 no waves
yet, give it up and stick to what everyone knows. Before I get flamed by
the metric mafia I will state I can do both and make most conversions in my
head but prefer Imperial.

--
Mike
Watch for the bounce.
If ya didn't see it, ya didn't feel it.
If ya see it, it didn't go off.
Old Air Force Munitions Saying
IYAAYAS
"Lee" wrote in message
et...
I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the
crap measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the
world uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).G

But why must we replace bits, sockets, tape measures and all of our imperial
sized tools? Just to be like the rest of the world? After 39 years of
following my father around the world or bouncing around it myself ( we're
both career military) I'll tell you I don't see anything they do that
warrens changing. In the age of the internet if you want to change, order
your tools aboard but don't force your ideas on the rest of us!!!!

--
Mike
Watch for the bounce.
If ya didn't see it, ya didn't feel it.
If ya see it, it didn't go off.
Old Air Force Munitions Saying
IYAAYAS
"Mike O." wrote in message
...
On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 22:12:38 GMT, "Lee" wrote:

I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the
crap
measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the world
uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).G

Go buy a couple of metric tape measures and have at it. I think you
could use whatever you like. You might have to replace bits and maybe
other things but as far as measuring goes, what difference does it
make as long as you always use the same thing? Of course for me, all
of the code requirements are still in inches so I'd have some
converting to do.

BTW, the scale on my Bies has both but the inch scale is on the top
where you can almost see it under the top of the pointer. I kinda
wish it was the other way around. I haven't spent the $15 for a
replacement scale in inches yet but I may have to.

Mike O.

On Oct 11, 6:12 pm, "Lee" wrote:
I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the crap
measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the world
uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).G

I've worked with both systems, and agree that the metric system is
easier to use.

I've already got wrench and socket sets in US and metric sizes, so
that's no problem. Oh, and Whitworth too - so I'm completely covered.

But - remember the adage about not changing horses in mid-stream?

I don't want to have to buy new taps and dies in metric sizes, except
for those few I already have. Gets expensive when you add in pipe
threads - although, from what I understand, even European pipe sizes
are inch-based.

I don't want to have to buy new brace bits, Forstner bits and brad
point bits in metric sizes to fit metric dowels, plugs and bolts.

Metal bits? I've already got #1-80, A-Z, fractional through 1" and
some larger. Pretty good range of sizes, so all I have to do is
convert from the chart for metric tap drills. But that won't work for
things like dowel pins - so I guess I'd need sets of metric reamers as
well as the drills.

Fence markings on my table saw would be fairly easy to replace. But
the feedscrews and leadscrews on my lathe and milling machine are
another matter. Same with the lathe change gears.

When I buy plywood or wallboard for house repairs, it's nice to buy
sizes that fit those 12", 16" or 24" center spacings for joists, studs
and rafters. Sure would be a PITA to have to trim metric sized sheets
to fit. Same with dimensional lumber. It sure isn't much fun to add
to old framing made with 2 x 4s that were 1-5/8" thick or 1-3/4" thick
when those today are only 1-1/2".

Same goes for metalwork. I guess if I need a piece of bar stock or
plate to replace or modify an old US sized piece I can always buy the
next larger metric size and cut it down on the mill and surface
grinder. But I'd rather not have to. Surface grinder - have to
change the feedscrews and dials on that too.

I can buy new tapes, rules, micrometers, calipers, 1-2-3 blocks, etc.
But, again, I'd rather not have to.

New dado blades, milling cutters, etc. The investment grows.

Maybe we should go all the way and change away from our archaic units
of time, angle measurement, and so on. Put everything on base 10
systems. No more of this 24/7 stuff.

Yeah, it's a better system. It is easier. Use it all you want. Just
pray that it doesn't become mandatory here in your lifetime - or mine.

John Martin

"John Martin" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 11, 6:12 pm, "Lee" wrote:
I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the
crap
measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the
world
uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).G

I've worked with both systems, and agree that the metric system is
easier to use.

I've already got wrench and socket sets in US and metric sizes, so
that's no problem. Oh, and Whitworth too - so I'm completely covered.

But - remember the adage about not changing horses in mid-stream?

I don't want to have to buy new taps and dies in metric sizes, except
for those few I already have. Gets expensive when you add in pipe
threads - although, from what I understand, even European pipe sizes
are inch-based.

I don't want to have to buy new brace bits, Forstner bits and brad
point bits in metric sizes to fit metric dowels, plugs and bolts.

Metal bits? I've already got #1-80, A-Z, fractional through 1" and
some larger. Pretty good range of sizes, so all I have to do is
convert from the chart for metric tap drills. But that won't work for
things like dowel pins - so I guess I'd need sets of metric reamers as
well as the drills.

Fence markings on my table saw would be fairly easy to replace. But
the feedscrews and leadscrews on my lathe and milling machine are
another matter. Same with the lathe change gears.

When I buy plywood or wallboard for house repairs, it's nice to buy
sizes that fit those 12", 16" or 24" center spacings for joists, studs
and rafters. Sure would be a PITA to have to trim metric sized sheets
to fit. Same with dimensional lumber. It sure isn't much fun to add
to old framing made with 2 x 4s that were 1-5/8" thick or 1-3/4" thick
when those today are only 1-1/2".

Same goes for metalwork. I guess if I need a piece of bar stock or
plate to replace or modify an old US sized piece I can always buy the
next larger metric size and cut it down on the mill and surface
grinder. But I'd rather not have to. Surface grinder - have to
change the feedscrews and dials on that too.

I can buy new tapes, rules, micrometers, calipers, 1-2-3 blocks, etc.
But, again, I'd rather not have to.

New dado blades, milling cutters, etc. The investment grows.

Maybe we should go all the way and change away from our archaic units
of time, angle measurement, and so on. Put everything on base 10
systems. No more of this 24/7 stuff.

Yeah, it's a better system. It is easier. Use it all you want. Just
pray that it doesn't become mandatory here in your lifetime - or mine.

John Martin

======Relax, guys! When the dems win the presidency and have the congress,
all will finally be well!*G*

Leif

In article , says...

What with China making all the tools, we're slowly indoctrinating them into
the Imperial system. Then all the stuff that goes to Europe, etc., will be
in FPS measurements and all will come back to that which has worked so well.

Look, MKS (Meter/Kilogram/Second) is okay for science and whatnot, but it
just doesn't work for human use.

"A pint's a pound the world around" and it will be again.


You got that bass ackwards. Many countries changed from imperial to metric.
When I was a kid, there were still imperial nuts and bolts and tools in use in
Germany. By the time I was a teen, they had disappeared. When I moved to New
Zealand in the early 1980ies everybody was still talking inches and feet (so I
converted) but by now I seem the only one still using inches for timber size
grin, everybody else uses mm -- actually I use mm as measurement for doing my
joinery, I just think to _order_ 4x1 and 6x2 etc.

Trust me, metric is a heck of a lot easier to use, and makes a lot more sense
than fractions. One look at a metric ruler next to an imperial one will
illustrate what I mean.

Of course I can appreciate that using fractions acts like a kind of mental
aerobics to keep the grey matter working.

OT (because it's metalwork) but still relevant is my experience that metric
threads work better than imperial ones. I have had a lot more trouble with
imperial screws and bolts on machinery shaking/working loose than with metric.
Coarse metric is finer and the pitch is different. Fine metric (as found on H/T
bolts for instance) is even better still in demanding applications.

-P.

--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com

John Martin wrote in
oups.com:

On Oct 11, 6:12 pm, "Lee" wrote:
I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of
the crap measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the
rest of the world uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like
using 10's is a lot easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).G

I've worked with both systems, and agree that the metric system is
easier to use.

I've already got wrench and socket sets in US and metric sizes, so
that's no problem. Oh, and Whitworth too - so I'm completely covered.


*snip*

See, now that's the problem. We've got two ways of measuring the same
thing, and have to have seperate tools for each. I'm happy to stay with
the US system, or if we could switch over to Metric it'd sure solve a lot
of duplication problems.

No, it won't happen over night. My guess is it will take 3 or 4
generations to completely change over. There will still be a need for US
sized tools though, for machinery such as steam locomotives and old
combines that need to be worked on and not changed over for historic
preservation reasons.

Take a bit of advice from a frazzled Physics student: Unit conversions
are bad enough with one measurement system. Don't throw another one in!

Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

Thu, Oct 11, 2007, 11:47pm (EDT+4) (Lee) doth sayeth:
Your missing my point. I am talking about using metric in the current
time for measuring...not replacing what we have now when it comes to
tools

So say you. I'd have changed years ago, but can't find a reliable
supplier of metric pencils.



JOAT
"I'm an Igor, thur. We don't athk quethtionth."
"Really? Why not?"
"I don't know, thur. I didn't athk."

"asmurff" wrote in message
...
But why must we replace bits, sockets, tape measures and all of our
imperial sized tools? Just to be like the rest of the world? After 39
years of following my father around the world or bouncing around it myself
( we're both career military) I'll tell you I don't see anything they do
that warrens changing. In the age of the internet if you want to change,
order your tools aboard but don't force your ideas on the rest of us!!!!

Ask the companies that have not been able to sell their products and
machines overseas because the other countries want metric. It may not
affect you, but it certainly does affect some people. If you don't want to
participate in a world economy, you don't have to.

"asmurff" wrote in message
...
Why change something that so many people understand and have the tools for
in their boxes.


Same reason people are learning to speak other languages. They want to be
part of the rest of the world and reap benefits from it. Many schools are
starting to teach Mandarin.

Lee wrote:
I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of
the crap measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the
rest of the world uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like
using 10's is a lot easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).G

Accuracy? Lots of measuring devices are marked in 64s. Don't know if
metric things are marked in part millimeters or not but if not, a mark
would be 1/25.4".

I agree 10ths make more sense but I'm too old to change...I bought a
fractional calculator.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

In plywood business ,four by eight feet is 1220X2440 mm in metric system .
We sell 1220x2440 or 1250x2500 mm plywood / film faced plywood to Europe ,
USA and other countries .

--
Mason Pan
Blog: http://www.plywood.cc/

"Andrew Barss" wrote in message
...
Mason Pan wrote:
: We use metric measurement in the business of plywood/film faced
: plywood/blockboard/MDF/Hardboard and so on .All our plywood businesses
were
: finished by using metric measurement, even if we do business with US, UK
or
: Ca customers .

Aren't "metric" plywood sheets something like 1200 x 2400 millimeters,
which is oddly very close to four by eight feet?


And aren't bords in Europe sold in 2.4 meter lengths? Not a natural
unit in metric.


-- Andy Barss

"Lee" wrote in message
et...
I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the
crap measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the
world uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).G


IMHO it all sounds the same. Was that 250 Millimeters, Centimeters, etc.?

What is wrong with fractions?
What do you get when you subtract 374 mm from 47 cm? What is half of 383
mm?

IMHO metric is simply a different distance but no easier.

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in message
...
HeyBub wrote:
Look, MKS (Meter/Kilogram/Second) is okay for science and whatnot, but it
just doesn't work for human use.



But it could. The conversion is what's difficult. When gasoline is sold
by the liter, who gives a **** about the gallon? We'd see one gas station
selling gas for 64 cents per liter and the station on the other side of
the street is selling it for 69 cents, how tough is it to figure out? We
will figure out that our cars can go 500 km on a tank, which will hold
maybe 60 liters. It won't take all that long to become comfortable with
it. If Europe was able to manage it, why the hell couldn't we? Aren't we
smart enough?


I think we are smart enough. I think the rest of the world uses metric
because they need something that they think is simpler. Is the rest of the
world smart enough to use inches?