Steve B wrote:
"Vic Smith" wrote

Sparks shouldn't get near the gas jugs, but now that you've mentioned
it, I could get them away from there, and will.
Thanks.

I hate two words. Should and probably.


They're different.

"Should" implies a moral and superiority judgment on the part of one's
self-appointed betters.

"Probably" is a dispassionate evaluation of the circumstances by a logical
mind.

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:57:01 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Steve B wrote:
"Vic Smith" wrote

Sparks shouldn't get near the gas jugs, but now that you've mentioned
it, I could get them away from there, and will.
Thanks.

I hate two words. Should and probably.


They're different.

"Should" implies a moral and superiority judgment on the part of one's
self-appointed betters.


Could just indicate indecision.


"Probably" is a dispassionate evaluation of the circumstances by a logical
mind.


Unless it's just indecision.
Anyway, I avoided both words - until now (-:
A friend would sometimes answer a question with "Maybe I might."
He just couldn't make up his mind.

--Vic

"Steve B" wrote:

-snip-

C4 does emit a poisonous gas when burned, but hey, you're in country, and
there's VC within smelling distance, what's a little poisonous gas?

Smell, hell! Mr. Charles could see us plain as day. We were on
an OP about 400 feet above the surrounding rice paddies. He might
have been somewhat deterred from taking us on regularly due to our 106
Recoilless rifle. OTOH, as I learned 30 years later, the NVA
hospital within the mountain might have made us a 'quiet zone'.g

Not my site- but here's a photo-
http://home.earthlink.net/~2551/id20.html

'My' mountain is the bigger one in the top picture- the Marines
called it Crowsnest. We even had a shower up there- made from an
orange 55 gallon drum. [another surprise 30 yrs after the fact- I had
never connected the orange barrel with Agent Orange- but our corpsman
confirms that what it was]

Might
even get an early discharge. From the Army, that is.

Army couldn't discharge us- we're Marines.g

Jim

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:23:24 -0700, Steve B wrote:

Autoignition Temperatu 833 degrees F / 444 degrees C

Gulf unleaded gasoline material data sheet (MDS)
http://www.gulfoil.com/files/downloa...edgasoline.PDF

And your point is? That there is no ignition source ...?

The point was to find whether gasoline, stored next to a fence, in approved
5-gallon containers, would ignite.

With an ignition temperature over 800 degrees F (MythBusters seems to think
it's only 500 degrees F so I'm not sure why the descrepancy), it's not
likely the gasoline will ever get hot enough, without a flame, to
spontaneously erupt simply stored against the fence.

Stored in a vehicle truck bed or closed trunk (or in the vehicle gas tank
for that matter), is a whole 'nother story because there could be leakage
and sparks and friction after a crash. But, a crash is a crash and is a
dangerous thing no matter what. If we're so worried about crashes, we'd
never drive anywhere so we have to take that risk in hand.

Assume someone drives 15K miles a year, for 50 years, that's 750K miles in
a lifetime. Assume in that lifetime, they have, how many? Maybe two, maybe
three accidents? Let's say five accidents just to be aggressive.

That's an accident every 150K miles. But you don't store the gas in the
trunk all the time; just to and from the gas station, which, for our sake,
we'll call 15 miles round trip.

I'm not sure how to do statistics, but, 15 miles out of 150,000 miles seems
like a percentage of about 0.01%. So, for any given fifteen miles that
you're carrying gasoline in your trunk, you have a non-zero (but pretty
small) chance of having an accident; and in that accident, you have a
smaller (but still non-zero) chance of having it blow up on you.

All in all, unless someone comes up with better math, I think you have a
better chance of having a heart attack than having your gas blow up on you
on that one trip to the gas station.

Still, I can't find what the laws are for California for transportation.
The Caltrans (DOT) site was miserable.

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:27:08 -0700, Steve B wrote:
But you said containers of less than five gallons storage.
What about transport? You say nothing about that.

I'm trying. I'm trying.

My husband fills my car with gas all the time from Costo runs he makes with
his car. He fills up his sedan plus four five-gallon cans at the Costco
pump. The advantage is he waits on line once but gets to fill up two cars.
The advantage to me is I never ever have to fill my gas.

So I'm also interested in the law. The Costco gas attendant can't possibly
not be seeing him do this for years. They never say anything. Neither has
anyone else. You'd think a cop or two would have been on line waiting at
some point or another. Or the trucker who fills up the huge gas tanks would
mention something.

Looking for the law, I scoured the Caltrans (fancy name for the California
DOT) web site for hours. I can't find a single document that says what the
law is for transport of gasoline in portable storage containers for
personal use.

I'll keep looking. It frustates me that something so simple is so hard to
find the law for.

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:45:00 -0700, Steve B wrote:

You cited about 5 gallon containers for handling.
Nothing stated there about storage.

I'm trying. I really am. I want to know myself what the law is.

I gave up on the California DOT (aka Caltrans) web site as its search
mechanism is a mess.

I googled for "California law gasoline portable storage container
transportation and storage"

It's really hard to find the law on storage and transportation of 5-gallon
gasoline containers!

This PDF, for example, titled "Portable Storage Containers"
(http://groups.ucanr.org/ehs/files/54035.pdf ) is typical in that it gives
suggestions, but, only one law is mentioned related to storage, and it
isn't what we're looking for (we're looking for a volume limitation).

It says "A safety can made of a heavy-gauge metal and having a cap that
automatically closes to prevent a spill if the can is dropped or tipped
over is required, under California Code of Regulations Title 8, Section
3319, for storing flammable liquids like gasoline."

So, I'm still looking for any California law that covers:
- How many gallons (if any limit exists) you can carry in your trunk
- How many gallons (if any limit exists) you can store 'along a fence'

We all know you can carry gas in your trunk; and you can leave it along
your fence; the only question is whether or not there is a legal volume
limit.

The point was to find whether gasoline, stored next to a fence, in
approved
5-gallon containers, would ignite.

The point is, gasoline could sit out there safely for a very long time. In
the sun. And not ignite from ambient heat. And never even get close.
There's no arguing that point.

Then humans enter the equation, and, well, you know humans. And then, there
is lightning. And in California, fires of different types. And, in
California, people who smoke all sorts of things that burn.

All in all, if I were the OP, I wouldn't have a problem with it, unless it's
by the house or garage or outbuilding, and then the OP is being careless and
might get caught with his pants down one day. From the neighbor's POV, I
can see why he might be a little concerned. I don't know if we ever
established if the gas and fence location was near any house or structure,
or out in the middle of acres of desert. I wouldn't want to see twenty
gallons of gas on the other side of my fence if it was between the two
houses. You probably wouldn't want to, either.

There are lots and lots of variables here. But the one constant is that gas
is very flammable, and extremely easy to ignite by several normal every day
methods, including static electricity from a poofy sweater.

AND, when it catches fire, it's usually nasty and leaves a big mess.

And melts plastic sweaters on to people in a heartbeat.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

"HeyBub" wrote in message
news
Steve B wrote:
"Vic Smith" wrote

Sparks shouldn't get near the gas jugs, but now that you've mentioned
it, I could get them away from there, and will.
Thanks.

I hate two words. Should and probably.


They're different.

"Should" implies a moral and superiority judgment on the part of one's
self-appointed betters.

"Probably" is a dispassionate evaluation of the circumstances by a logical
mind.

Now I hate them even more. AND you.

Just kidding about the second part.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

LM wrote:
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:27:08 -0700, Steve B wrote:
But you said containers of less than five gallons storage.
What about transport? You say nothing about that.

I'm trying. I'm trying.

My husband fills my car with gas all the time from Costo runs he
makes with his car. He fills up his sedan plus four five-gallon cans
at the Costco pump. The advantage is he waits on line once but gets
to fill up two cars. The advantage to me is I never ever have to fill
my gas.

So I'm also interested in the law. The Costco gas attendant can't
possibly not be seeing him do this for years. They never say
anything. Neither has anyone else. You'd think a cop or two would
have been on line waiting at some point or another. Or the trucker
who fills up the huge gas tanks would mention something.

Looking for the law, I scoured the Caltrans (fancy name for the
California DOT) web site for hours. I can't find a single document
that says what the law is for transport of gasoline in portable
storage containers for personal use.

I'll keep looking. It frustates me that something so simple is so
hard to find the law for.

i suppose you could devolve to an old fashioned method. do you have a phone?
perhaps you could call them up.

frankly, if it's not a citable law, they can't write a ticket for it, making
the limit be...as much as you want.

there really isn't a law or regulation for everything, even though it
sometimes seems so.

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:04:13 -0700, Steve B wrote:
There are lots and lots of variables here. But the one constant is that gas
is very flammable, and extremely easy to ignite by several normal every day
methods, including static electricity from a poofy sweater.

I think we've answered one of the questions:
Is it all that dangerous to keep 20 gallons of gas in the back yard?

We all know that there are plenty of dangerous things we keep around our
house (I have 1,000 gallons of propane in a tank ten feet away from the
house, for example), and gasoline in portable storage containers is one of
those things nearly every one of us has in our garage or shed.

As far as I've read in this thread, the only limits I have in storage
(besides common sense) are the ones from OSHA which I'm well within.

But I don't think we have been able to answer the second question:
Is it illegal to trasnsport more than 5 gallons (California) in a car?

I'm searching the California codes as we speak and can't find anything
telling me how many 5-gallon gas jugs we can carry in the trunk of a car:
http://law.justia.com/california/codes/veh.html

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:06:16 -0700, Steve B wrote:
Now I hate them even more.

Looking for the law, as far as I can see, California regulates "cargo
tanks" which are defined as being over 120 gallons in capacity:
http://law.justia.com/california/cod...000-34006.html

I just can't find a law in California for transportation of 5-gallon
portable gasoline containers in the trunk of a car yet.

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:15:21 -0700, chaniarts wrote:
perhaps you could call them up.

Whom would you call?

I can imagine the phone call now ....

"Hello, Caltrans switchboard ... what extension please?"
- Lisa: "Um... I don't know what extension. I just want to look up a law".
"What extension please, maaam"
-- Lisa: "Um ... I don't know. I'd like to ask a question about gas laws"
"I asked the question first, maaam. What extension please?"
-- Lisa: "Um ... I really don't know whom I want to talk to. Someone who
can answer a question about how many gallons of gasoline you can carry in
the trunk of your car"
"What extension please"
....

And so on ... like a broken record ...

"Roy" wrote in message
...
On Jul 21, 8:59 am, Steve Barker wrote:
On 7/20/2010 8:52 PM, HeyBub wrote:



Bill Murphy wrote:
I have a typical back yard, open mostly to the sun, where I store five
5-gallon jerry jugs of gasoline for my bikes and equipment and
off-road vehicles.

I don't see that it's all that much of a danger, considering we keep
two cars in the garage with twice that much gasoline essentially
inside the house - while this is outside along the fence.

But, my neighbor noticed the four jugs recently and asked about them.
I said I never knew gas to spontaneously explode and he said the sun
could cause it to happen. He also said it's illegal to transport more
than a single five-gallon can in your trunk (is that true?).

Is it all that dangerous to keep 20 gallons of gas in the back yard?
Is it illegal to trasnsport more than 5 gallons (California) in a car?

I'd be more concerned about the buttinsky neighbor than the gasoline.

amen. tell him to myob

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

==
Bull****...the neighbor has legitimate concerns. 20 gallons of
gasoline in jerry cans stored in a trunk of a car is NOT safe. If
stored in a locked garden shed isolated from all buildings or fences
it would be much safer but not ideal. Residential areas are not
designed for the storage of volatile liquids especially in the
quantities mentioned. I would not store more than 2 gallons at the
most...this would be adequate for lawnmower and weedeater usage.
People who do what THEY want and disregard OTHERS are just selfish
jerks. I have lived next to these kinds of people in the past and
believe me, it is no picnic.
==

I second the neighbor has legitimate concerns. He's doing his neighbor a
solid by telling him it maybe illegal and dangerous. If the OP's house
burned down the group would be saying "Why didn't the neighbor say
something?" g

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 17:34:23 -0700, Bill Murphy wrote:
Is it illegal to trasnsport more than 5 gallons (California) in a car?

This seems to be a decent California laws search engine:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html

But it only found the previously mentioned law regarding transportation of
more than 120 gallons of gasoline in California at a time.

At this point, there seems to be no specific law in California regulating
the transportation (or storage) of gasoline in 5 gallon cans.

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:06:16 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"HeyBub" wrote in message
news
Steve B wrote:
"Vic Smith" wrote

Sparks shouldn't get near the gas jugs, but now that you've mentioned
it, I could get them away from there, and will.
Thanks.

I hate two words. Should and probably.


They're different.

"Should" implies a moral and superiority judgment on the part of one's
self-appointed betters.

"Probably" is a dispassionate evaluation of the circumstances by a logical
mind.

Now I hate them even more. AND you.

Just kidding about the second part.


Should we change "should" to shall?

Probably not, but we _ought_ too!

"LM" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:15:21 -0700, chaniarts wrote:
perhaps you could call them up.

Whom would you call?

I can imagine the phone call now ....

"Hello, Caltrans switchboard ... what extension please?"
- Lisa: "Um... I don't know what extension. I just want to look up a
law".
"What extension please, maaam"
-- Lisa: "Um ... I don't know. I'd like to ask a question about gas laws"
"I asked the question first, maaam. What extension please?"
-- Lisa: "Um ... I really don't know whom I want to talk to. Someone who
can answer a question about how many gallons of gasoline you can carry in
the trunk of your car"
"What extension please"
...

And so on ... like a broken record ...

We have a really good info line here. I can call 311 and get almost any
question, regarding the city, answered. It's pretty impresssive. Another
thing is, most, if not all, local and state statutes are on the internet. He
could Google it. May take some time.

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:40:52 -0500, JimT wrote:

I would not store more than 2 gallons at the most...

At this point, I just want to find out what the law says about storage and
transportation of 5-gallon gasoline containers.

So far, nobody can come up with a California law. NY law was interesting
though. So a Ca law probably exists (hell, in California, you can't even
put a GPS on the windshield).

We just can't find any California law regarding either storage of 5-gallon
cans of gasoline or transportation of 5-gallon portable containers filled
with gasoline.

BTW, 2 gallons is ridiculously small. I use a 2-gallon can just for the
two-stroke equipment, let alone the four-stroke equipment and the off-road
bikes and the riding mower and the generator. Two gallons would last less
than a few hours, being so ridiculously small as to not be feasible.

So far, the law seems to start at 120 gallons, which is way above the
practical minimum. I'd guess the practicable minimum for an average
homeowner to be at least 5 gallons (assuming only minor lawn equipment).

You always need an absolute minimum of two cans, one for the two strokes,
and one for the four stroke engines.

"Bill Murphy" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:40:52 -0500, JimT wrote:

I would not store more than 2 gallons at the most...
snip

For the record that was "mm" that wrote that. I have more than 2 gal on
site. 2 for my lawn mower and maybe a gal for the edger. I was just
commenting that it "sounds" like your neighbor is just concerned. g I
haven't said a word to one of my neighbors in about 3 years, but he's a
butthole.

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:16:45 -0700, Bill Murphy
wrote:

But I don't think we have been able to answer the second question:
Is it illegal to trasnsport more than 5 gallons (California) in a car?

I'm searching the California codes as we speak and can't find anything
telling me how many 5-gallon gas jugs we can carry in the trunk of a car:
http://law.justia.com/california/codes/veh.html

How many times in the last 20 years or so has a police officer asked
if you were carrying to many gallons of gas in the trunk?

None I bet. Cal DOT is not out there on the roads trying to capture
you.

Moonshine haulin' is another story.

In article ,
Oren wrote:

None I bet. Cal DOT is not out there on the roads trying to capture
you.

Moonshine haulin' is another story.

Largely because the taxes are already paid on the gas. They do have
their priorities you know. (g).

--
I want to find a voracious, small-minded predator
and name it after the IRS.
Robert Bakker, paleontologist

"Bill Murphy" wrote

We all know that there are plenty of dangerous things we keep around our
house (I have 1,000 gallons of propane in a tank ten feet away from the
house, for example), and gasoline in portable storage containers is one of
those things nearly every one of us has in our garage or shed.

In my state, and I think they quoted me federal law, you can have no more
than a 125 gallon tank within close range to a structure. That is why the
tanks are 124 gallons. I know, I went to buy one on a kitchen remodel.
That is why we did not go with the big tank - distance. If you have that
much stored that close, you are in violation. You should check on that
before a concerned neighbor does.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

"Bill Murphy" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:06:16 -0700, Steve B wrote:
Now I hate them even more.

Looking for the law, as far as I can see, California regulates "cargo
tanks" which are defined as being over 120 gallons in capacity:
http://law.justia.com/california/cod...000-34006.html

I just can't find a law in California for transportation of 5-gallon
portable gasoline containers in the trunk of a car yet.

And I imagine one would have to be a DOT certified and licensed transport
company to haul such tanks.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

Steve B wrote:
"Bill Murphy" wrote

We all know that there are plenty of dangerous things we keep around
our house (I have 1,000 gallons of propane in a tank ten feet away
from the house, for example), and gasoline in portable storage
containers is one of those things nearly every one of us has in our
garage or shed.

In my state, and I think they quoted me federal law, you can have no
more than a 125 gallon tank within close range to a structure. That
is why the tanks are 124 gallons. I know, I went to buy one on a
kitchen remodel. That is why we did not go with the big tank -
distance. If you have that much stored that close, you are in
violation. You should check on that before a concerned neighbor does.

every house in my neighborhood has one larger than 125 quite close to the
house (there is no nat gas in the area and it's out in the sticks). i have a
500g tank buried about 20ft from my garage. it was inspected by both the
town and fire dept when the house was built.

On 7/22/2010 1:50 PM, Bill Murphy wrote:
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:40:52 -0500, JimT wrote:

I would not store more than 2 gallons at the most...

At this point, I just want to find out what the law says about storage and
transportation of 5-gallon gasoline containers.

So far, nobody can come up with a California law. NY law was interesting
though. So a Ca law probably exists (hell, in California, you can't even
put a GPS on the windshield).

We just can't find any California law regarding either storage of 5-gallon
cans of gasoline or transportation of 5-gallon portable containers filled
with gasoline.

...


You should contact your local planning department with regards to
storage. They are the best place to start. Another good place is your
local fire department since it involves hazardous material storage.

As far as transportation, I did find this

"It is ILLEGAL to transport more than 15 gallons or 125 pounds of
hazardous waste in your personal vehicle."

I suspect 15 gallons of gasoline is the maximum not counting the vehicle
fuel tank.

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:29:29 -0700, in alt.home.repair, "Steve B"
wrote:

I hate two words. Should and probably.

I should probably hate them too.

--
Due to Usenet spam, emailed replies must pass an intelligence test: if
you want me to read your reply, be sure to include this line of text in
your email, but remove this line before sending, otherwise my filters
will delete your email with all due prejudice. Thanks!

On Jul 22, 2:18*pm, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:16:45 -0700, Bill Murphy

wrote:
But I don't think we have been able to answer the second question:
Is it illegal to trasnsport more than 5 gallons (California) in a car?

I'm searching the California codes as we speak and can't find anything
telling me how many 5-gallon gas jugs we can carry in the trunk of a car:
http://law.justia.com/california/codes/veh.html

How many times in the last 20 years or so has a police officer asked
if you were carrying to many gallons of gas in the trunk?

None I bet. Cal DOT is not out there on the roads trying to capture
you.

Moonshine haulin' is another story.

This is the kind of thing I think of when I see Swedish police (or
whoever that was) using a harpoon into the trunk to stop cars. Oh
sorry, Finland: http://www.jewishworldreview.com/dave/barry012207.php3

During the first gas crisis, my brother bought a truckload of 6 gallon
containers, which we filled and kept for his business in a shed
attached to the back of the building. It was in a commercial building
next to an elementary school that backed up to an apartment complex
carport. A few years later, some drug dealers bombed a car in the
carport, burning down the shed. Or so I was told. I still use one.
Container that is.

When I was in college, I remember a professor died and they had to
call in a bomb squad robot when they found some old reagent grade
peroxide on a shelf. It seems some materials form long, unstable
chains when left standing for a long time, becoming extremely
explosive like the old cartoon nitroglycerin. Gas just turns to
varnish, I can tell you from experience.

jg
--
@home.com is bogus.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2...-weapons-cash/

On Jul 22, 12:31*pm, "Steve B" wrote:


I'm sorry if I confused you with specific terms.

Steve

visit my blog athttp://cabgbypasssurgery.com

You didn't confuse me with specific terms.

You confused me by stating that a BLEVE is rapid combustion.

I have always believed a BLEVE does not require combustion.

The wiki article I just googled confirms my belief.

Obviously you do not agree, so perhaps you would explain why.

In article ,
LM wrote:

Still, I can't find what the laws are for California for transportation.
The Caltrans (DOT) site was miserable.

Maybe it isn't the right place to look. The first paragraph of the
"About" page reads:

"Caltrans manages more than 50,000 miles of California's highway and
freeway lanes, provides inter-city rail services, permits more than 400
public-use airports and special-use hospital heliports, and works with
local agencies. Caltrans carries out its mission of improving mobility
across California with six primary programs: Aeronautics, Highway
Transportation, Mass Transportation, Transportation Planning,
Administration and the Equipment Service Center."

Doesn't sound to me like they make laws.

In article ,
"Steve B" wrote:

Then humans enter the equation, and, well, you know humans.

Yep. Unpredictable at best. OP or the neighbor is gonna be shooting at a
squirrel for dinner or a rat to dispatch it, just after dusk. Oh, ****,
I forgot about those gas cans ...

"chaniarts" wrote in message
...
Steve B wrote:
"Bill Murphy" wrote

We all know that there are plenty of dangerous things we keep around
our house (I have 1,000 gallons of propane in a tank ten feet away
from the house, for example), and gasoline in portable storage
containers is one of those things nearly every one of us has in our
garage or shed.

In my state, and I think they quoted me federal law, you can have no
more than a 125 gallon tank within close range to a structure. That
is why the tanks are 124 gallons. I know, I went to buy one on a
kitchen remodel. That is why we did not go with the big tank -
distance. If you have that much stored that close, you are in
violation. You should check on that before a concerned neighbor does.

every house in my neighborhood has one larger than 125 quite close to the
house (there is no nat gas in the area and it's out in the sticks). i have
a 500g tank buried about 20ft from my garage. it was inspected by both the
town and fire dept when the house was built.

When I went to ask about this, they said that if it was less than 125, it
could be put right next to the house. After that, if depended on the size
as to how far it had to be away from the house. It all depends on your
local code, anyway.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"Steve B" wrote:

Then humans enter the equation, and, well, you know humans.

Yep. Unpredictable at best. OP or the neighbor is gonna be shooting at a
squirrel for dinner or a rat to dispatch it, just after dusk. Oh, ****,
I forgot about those gas cans ...

But how can that be? We've seen expert testimony from several individuals
here that it would be an impossibility.

I'm confused ..........

Steve ;-)

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

"TimR" wrote in message
...
On Jul 22, 12:31 pm, "Steve B" wrote:


I'm sorry if I confused you with specific terms.

Steve

visit my blog athttp://cabgbypasssurgery.com

You didn't confuse me with specific terms.

You confused me by stating that a BLEVE is rapid combustion.

I have always believed a BLEVE does not require combustion.

The wiki article I just googled confirms my belief.

Obviously you do not agree, so perhaps you would explain why.

reply: Uh, because you say one thing, and I say another?

A bleve that causes a sizeable fireball is usually caused by containment of
some sort. Opened topped gas storage tanks have caught fire and caused
similar situations, but there was no confinement of gas to increase the
pressure. Since the last word in bleve stands for explosion, would it just
be a bunch of boiling gas if it were not lit in some way? Isn't that
combustion?

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

On Jul 22, 10:35*pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,

*LM wrote:
Still, I can't find what the laws are for California for transportation..
The Caltrans (DOT) site was miserable.

Maybe it isn't the right place to look. The first paragraph of the
"About" page reads:

"Caltrans manages more than 50,000 miles of California's highway and
freeway lanes, provides inter-city rail services, permits more than 400
public-use airports and special-use hospital heliports, and works with
local agencies. Caltrans carries out its mission of improving mobility
across California with six primary programs: Aeronautics, Highway
Transportation, Mass Transportation, Transportation Planning,
Administration and the Equipment Service Center."

Doesn't sound to me like they make laws.


Absolutely... The make administrative laws which govern how your
car has to be inspected and what items must be inspected to get
your sticker... Also how the roadways and railways under their
jurisdiction are used... Lots of things are covered under
administrative
law...

~~ Evan

Smitty Two wrote in newsrestwhich-
:

In article ,
"Steve B" wrote:

Then humans enter the equation, and, well, you know humans.

Yep. Unpredictable at best. OP or the neighbor is gonna be shooting at a
squirrel for dinner or a rat to dispatch it, just after dusk. Oh, ****,
I forgot about those gas cans ...


Outdoor cans are subject to rusting.
if they leak,they pollute the ground water.
I doubt a copper/lead bullet piercing a gas can would ignite one.
(anyone care to experiment for the group? 8-) )

Besides,hunters should not be shooting near residences.
(yes,I said "should",and many don't do as they should)


--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 05:06:43 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

It is illegal to haul gas in a vehicle that does NOT have a
compartment separate from the passengers. Vehicles like a minivan, or
SUV, or station wagon.

Laws differ by state. I'm just trying to find the details of "that law" you
quote.

Just as leaving your vehicle for the purpose of refueling is illegal in
some states (NJ for example); or placing anything, like a GPS, on your
windshield is illegal in some states (California, for example); and having
your OBDII DTC codes scanned for free by the auto parts stores is illegal
in some states (Hawaii, for example); and using a radar detector is illegal
in some states (Virginia?) ... gasoline temporary storage and
transportation laws are certain to differ in various states.

Isn't there a single California lawyer on the USENET?

Can anyone find a California law that regulates the storage and
transportation of 5-gallon jugs of gasoline for personal use?

On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 09:34:04 -0500, Jim Yanik wrote:
I doubt a copper/lead bullet piercing a gas can would ignite one.
(anyone care to experiment for the group? 8-) )


http://mythbustersresults.com/episode15

If a bullet is shot through the fuel tank of a car, it will explode.

busted

The gas tank did not explode.

(This myth was revisited in episode 38 and it was found to be plausible if
the tank is shot with a tracer round.)

http://mythbustersresults.com/episode38


REVISITED: A gas tank will explode when shot by a bullet. (From Episode 15)

busted

It has already been proven that when shot by a normal bullet a gasoline
tank will not explode. However, if a gasoline tank is shot by a tracer
round from a great enough distance so that the round can ignite with air
friction, it will cause the gasoline to catch fire. By the time this
happened the tank was so riddled with bullets (from previous tracers that
were fired too close to ignite) that there was no contained pressure, but
the MythBusters surmised that had the tank been properly enclosed, it may
have exploded; but overall it remains extremely improbable.

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:21:22 -0700, Roy wrote:
"It is ILLEGAL to transport more than 15 gallons or 125 pounds of
hazardous waste in your personal vehicle."

Stating a law without a reference isn't useful in this particular case.

While I'm sure waste contaminated gasoline would be considered a hazardous
waste (and a flammable liquid at the same time), I doubt usable gasoline is
considered hazardous waste, per se, in most states.

But you never know. For example, it's illegal in California to use brass
plumbing that has ANY lead in it (yet all other 49 states seem to have no
problem with that).

As another example, it's illegal in California to use chlorinated brake
cleaners; while almost ever other state has no problem with that.

My point is that laws clearly vary by state:
- It's illegal in some states to get out of your car to refuel or pay
- It's illegal in some states to put a GPS in the middle of the windshield
- It's illegal in some states to use a radar detector
- It's illegal in some states to get your OBDII DTC codes scanned for free
etc.

Since laws involving storage and transportation of gasoline are almost
certain to vary among the states, a specific California law is what I'm
looking for (since I live in California). I'll keep looking for the text of
the law but I was hoping there was a single lawyer on this forum who might
tell us how to find the text of the law.

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:46:55 -0500, JimT wrote:

most, if not all, local and state statutes are on the internet.
He could Google it. May take some time.

I posted a few references for California legal search sites.

None contained ANY California law regarding the transportation and storage
of 5-gallon jugs of gasoline for personal use.

Many contained transportation of 120 gallons or more; and OSHA sites
contained regulations for the work place; but so far, nobody on this planet
can cite a specific California law that regulates the storage or
transportation of 20-gallons worth of gasoline in the state of California.

On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 11:22:10 -0400, wrote:
The site lists no details. Was the tank full, or almost empty for the
test? What was the ambient temperature?

Details would have been in the MythBusters show itself. I'm sure a YouTube
exerpt might exist if you need those details.

The point is, the suggestion that a "hunter's round" will accidentally
explode plastic gas cans sitting outside is so highly unlikely, maybe even
impossible, as to not be a reasonable fear.

Gasoline is very dangerous. We all know that. A leak is not good, for
example. But we manage that danger every single day (almost all of us keep
about 40 gallons in the garage every night, for example).

To date, nobody on this planet (not even me, after extensive searches
already listed) can reference a single California law that regulates the
home storage and vehicle transporation of five gallon jugs of gasoline in a
car trunk.

On 7/23/2010 8:23 AM, Bill Murphy wrote:
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:21:22 -0700, Roy wrote:
"It is ILLEGAL to transport more than 15 gallons or 125 pounds of
hazardous waste in your personal vehicle."

Stating a law without a reference isn't useful in this particular case.



I don't remember the exact web site I picked that from but a google
search on "hazardous waste transportation california 15 gallons" will
find multiple references such as


http://www.lessismore.org/Programs/h...te_cmplte.html

http://www.ci.burbank.ca.us/index.aspx?page=478

http://www.smgov.net/Departments/OSE..._Business.aspx