Okay, I watched the video and all I could say was "WOW!". This saw is
probably fairly expensive. Besides, I have a nice one and am always
very careful.

http://www.sawstop.com/how-it-works-videos.htm

But it only takes one mistake to lose a finger. Click on the link and
watch the videos linked on the site. It's amazing. I have to ask - is
this for real or is this some kind of high tech joke?

Has anyone else seen this machine before?

Jack

"mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" wrote:

Okay, I watched the video and all I could say was "WOW!". This saw is
probably fairly expensive. Besides, I have a nice one and am always
very careful.

http://www.sawstop.com/how-it-works-videos.htm

But it only takes one mistake to lose a finger. Click on the link and
watch the videos linked on the site. It's amazing. I have to ask - is
this for real or is this some kind of high tech joke?

Has anyone else seen this machine before?

Jack

Technologically it is interesting, however it has failed miserably from
a business perspective since the public doesn't want it.

Further reason to not patronize the company is the fact that in their
desperation to recover the development costs for their failed product
they are attempting to get the government to require manufacturers to
license and incorporate their technology in new saws.

This of course is essentially trying to get the government to force
consumers to purchase the product. Not only should you not patronize a
company as unethical as the sawstop folks, you should actively oppose
their corrupt efforts.

Pete C.

Umm This has been discussed time and time again in the last 3 or so years.

The general consensus is that most every one here would rather not buy the
saw for personal reasons. About 10% here think it is a great idea also. It
sells for about the same price of a Powermatic cabinet saw, so pricing is
competitive considering all the features. Actual owners seem to be quite
pleased with the saw although on occasion there have some misfires that were
later corrected.


"mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" "mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" wrote
in message . ..
Okay, I watched the video and all I could say was "WOW!". This saw is
probably fairly expensive. Besides, I have a nice one and am always very
careful.

http://www.sawstop.com/how-it-works-videos.htm

But it only takes one mistake to lose a finger. Click on the link and
watch the videos linked on the site. It's amazing. I have to ask - is
this for real or is this some kind of high tech joke?

Has anyone else seen this machine before?

Jack

If you google this group for sawstop, you will find hours of reading ahead
of you.

"mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" "mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" wrote
in message . ..
Okay, I watched the video and all I could say was "WOW!". This saw is
probably fairly expensive. Besides, I have a nice one and am always
very careful.

http://www.sawstop.com/how-it-works-videos.htm

But it only takes one mistake to lose a finger. Click on the link and
watch the videos linked on the site. It's amazing. I have to ask - is
this for real or is this some kind of high tech joke?

Has anyone else seen this machine before?

Jack

"Pete C." wrote in message
...

Technologically it is interesting, however it has failed miserably from
a business perspective since the public doesn't want it.

Do you have finantial figures to back up you claim here? LOL
Since the saw is in production and selling within a few years of having been
introduced I would say it is a success despite personal feelings about the
saw.

Further reason to not patronize the company is the fact that in their
desperation to recover the development costs for their failed product
they are attempting to get the government to require manufacturers to
license and incorporate their technology in new saws.

Any law against that? I believe that is called ummmm Capitolism.

This of course is essentially trying to get the government to force
consumers to purchase the product. Not only should you not patronize a
company as unethical as the sawstop folks, you should actively oppose
their corrupt efforts.

Oh you have a hard on... I see.

"mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" "mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" wrote
in message . ..
Okay, I watched the video and all I could say was "WOW!". This saw is
probably fairly expensive. Besides, I have a nice one and am always very
careful.

http://www.sawstop.com/how-it-works-videos.htm

But it only takes one mistake to lose a finger. Click on the link and
watch the videos linked on the site. It's amazing. I have to ask - is
this for real or is this some kind of high tech joke?

Has anyone else seen this machine before?
Jack

Where have you been?

--
Stoutman
http://www.garagewoodworks.com
(Featuring a NEW look)

In article , Leon
wrote:

The general consensus is that most every one here would rather not buy the
saw for personal reasons. About 10% here think it is a great idea also. It
sells for about the same price of a Powermatic cabinet saw, so pricing is
competitive considering all the features. Actual owners seem to be quite
pleased with the saw although on occasion there have some misfires that were
later corrected.

That's a fairly inaccurate description as far as I'm concerned.

I recall the discussions well. After the long period of "is this
vaporware or not?" the primary objection was to Sawstop lobbying to
make their technology mandatory in the USA.

I think the tech is superb. As an option.

--
Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest.
- Mark Twain.

Ah, well, it was the first time I had seen or heard of it. Expensive
and probably does have other problems (I'll read the previous writeups
if I can find them). But still ... it's just sooooo cool.

Jack

CW wrote:

If you google this group for sawstop, you will find hours of reading ahead
of you.

"mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" "mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" wrote
in message . ..

Okay, I watched the video and all I could say was "WOW!". This saw is
probably fairly expensive. Besides, I have a nice one and am always
very careful.

http://www.sawstop.com/how-it-works-videos.htm

But it only takes one mistake to lose a finger. Click on the link and
watch the videos linked on the site. It's amazing. I have to ask - is
this for real or is this some kind of high tech joke?

Has anyone else seen this machine before?

Jack

Well, for the past 18 months, I've been in NM. Before that, I was in
NJ. And before that, we lived in Ohio for a couple year. And up until I
was about 10, I was in upstate NY.

Why do you ask?

Jack

stoutman wrote:



Where have you been?

"mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" "mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" wrote
in message ...
Well, for the past 18 months, I've been in NM. Before that, I was in NJ.
And before that, we lived in Ohio for a couple year. And up until I was
about 10, I was in upstate NY.

Why do you ask?

Jack

stoutman wrote:



Where have you been?


Well, you certainly have not been following this list much. Nor have you
watched the TV woodworking shows. The Sawstop folks have been demonstrating
their device for quite some time without much success.
Jim

"Dave Balderstone" wrote in message
...

That's a fairly inaccurate description as far as I'm concerned.

I recall the discussions well. After the long period of "is this
vaporware or not?" the primary objection was to Sawstop lobbying to
make their technology mandatory in the USA.

No, I believe the people did not like the saw because they were speptical as
to whether it would work correctly, then they were skeptical because the
company wanted the government to mandate the safety device on other saws,
then there was the discussion of vaporware which made no since because the
saw was being sold and was in production at the time of the conversation.


I think the tech is superb. As an option.

So the tech would not be as good if it was mandated?



--
Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest.
- Mark Twain.

"Jim" wrote in message
. com...


Well, you certainly have not been following this list much. Nor have you
watched the TV woodworking shows. The Sawstop folks have been
demonstrating their device for quite some time without much success.
Jim


While not successful in getting other companies to license their product
they seem to be pretty successful in bringing the saw to market and having
happy owners. There have been a few complaints of misfires but IIRC the
situations were resolved. Imagine buying an automobile that has no
problems. LOL

You know, this is why people don't like newsgroups. ALL I was saying is
that I found this saw to be amazing. Okay, SHOOT ME! I'm sorry!!!!

Damn, what is it with people? I didn't know this was "common" knowledge
and I thought I'd share it.

I apologize for trying to be nice.

Jack


Jim wrote:

"mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" "mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" wrote
in message ...

Well, for the past 18 months, I've been in NM. Before that, I was in NJ.
And before that, we lived in Ohio for a couple year. And up until I was
about 10, I was in upstate NY.

Why do you ask?

Jack

stoutman wrote:



Where have you been?


Well, you certainly have not been following this list much. Nor have you
watched the TV woodworking shows. The Sawstop folks have been demonstrating
their device for quite some time without much success.
Jim

"Pete C." wrote in message
...

This of course is essentially trying to get the government to force
consumers to purchase the product. Not only should you not patronize a
company as unethical as the sawstop folks, you should actively oppose
their corrupt efforts.


I am no fan of sawstop because I am unconvinced of its ability to provide
adequate protection. I am also not a fan of them lobbying government for
increased regulation. However, you should be careful of accusing an entity
of being corrupt. What exactly have they done that is corrupt / illegal?
Nothing to my knowledge.

"mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" "mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" wrote
in message ...
You know, this is why people don't like newsgroups. ALL I was saying is
that I found this saw to be amazing. Okay, SHOOT ME! I'm sorry!!!!

Damn, what is it with people? I didn't know this was "common" knowledge
and I thought I'd share it.


No big deal. It is just that it has been a long drawn out argument around
here and another thread just makes people pick up where they left off.
Anyone who gets irritated with you for posting this and couldn't tell
exactly what your post was from your subject line without reading it can go
**** up a rope.

Frank

On 26 Feb 2006, Leon spake unto rec.woodworking:


"Pete C." wrote in message
...

Technologically it is interesting, however it has failed miserably
from a business perspective since the public doesn't want it.

Do you have finantial figures to back up you claim here? LOL
Since the saw is in production and selling within a few years of
having been introduced I would say it is a success despite personal
feelings about the saw.

Further reason to not patronize the company is the fact that in their
desperation to recover the development costs for their failed product
they are attempting to get the government to require manufacturers to
license and incorporate their technology in new saws.

Any law against that? I believe that is called ummmm Capitolism.

This of course is essentially trying to get the government to force
consumers to purchase the product. Not only should you not patronize
a company as unethical as the sawstop folks, you should actively
oppose their corrupt efforts.

Oh you have a hard on... I see.

A quick googling of "sawstop" brings your name up 290 times to Pete
C.'s once. Check your own pants.

"Leon" wrote in message
The general consensus is that most every one here would rather not buy the
saw for personal reasons. About 10% here think it is a great idea also.
It
sells for about the same price of a Powermatic cabinet saw, so pricing is
competitive considering all the features. Actual owners seem to be quite
pleased with the saw although on occasion there have some misfires that
were
later corrected.

I'd suggest that the general consensus is that the saw is acceptable as long
as money doesn't have to be spent on false activations and as long as the
tendency to use unsafe practices around the Sawstop do not take over because
of it's safety features.

In other words, if I needed a tablesaw, I'd consider the Sawstop as being
completely practical as long as I don't needlessly have to spend money or
become a danger to myself while operating it.

In article , Leon
wrote:

So the tech would not be as good if it was mandated?

"Mandated" is not a word.

Mandate is a noun. Nouns do not have tenses.

What are you trying to say?

--
Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest.
- Mark Twain.

In article , Scott
Cramer wrote:

A quick googling of "sawstop" brings your name up 290 times to Pete
C.'s once. Check your own pants.

You owe me a keyboard!

LOL!

--
Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest.
- Mark Twain.

I checked into the Sawstop saw when I was looking for a new cabinet
saw. About $3500 delivered to Pennsylvania.

Bryan

"Dave Balderstone" wrote in message
...
In article , Leon
wrote:

So the tech would not be as good if it was mandated?

"Mandated" is not a word.

Mandate is a noun. Nouns do not have tenses.


Wrong! It can also be a transitive verb. The below was taken from
dictionary.com. Number 2 applys here.

tr.v. man·dat·ed, man·dat·ing, man·dates
1.. To assign (a colony or territory) to a specified nation under a
mandate.
2.. To make mandatory, as by law; decree or requi mandated
desegregation of public schools.
Stick to making jigs.


What are you trying to say?

--
Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest.
- Mark Twain.

In article , stoutman
.@. wrote:

Wrong! It can also be a transitive verb.

That's happened in the last 20 years then. I suppose one day "unique"
will no longer be an absolute.

Stick to making jigs.

**** you, too.

And for you, I make an exception to my "don't announce the plonks" rule
and announce... Plonk.

--
Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest.
- Mark Twain.

Jack the saw is amazing, and the post here are also. I posted a question a
few month ago when I had a misfire the thread went on for days. But the
saw
is great will be ordering a second one soon.
Joe


So, Joe...what I'm really wondering is when it misfires, does it kill the
saw blade? And if so, did the SawStop folk offer to replace it for you?

Mike

And for you, I make an exception to my "don't announce the plonks" rule
and announce... Plonk.


Yeah!!!! No more Balderstone ****ing in my threads!!!

**** you, too.

Must be very cold up there. eh? Can't think straight Canuck?


--
Stoutman
http://www.garagewoodworks.com
(Featuring a NEW look)

Frank Ketchum wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
...

This of course is essentially trying to get the government to force
consumers to purchase the product. Not only should you not patronize a
company as unethical as the sawstop folks, you should actively oppose
their corrupt efforts.


I am no fan of sawstop because I am unconvinced of its ability to provide
adequate protection. I am also not a fan of them lobbying government for
increased regulation. However, you should be careful of accusing an entity
of being corrupt. What exactly have they done that is corrupt / illegal?
Nothing to my knowledge.

Morally corrupt a.k.a. unetical.

Trying to use the government to force your failed product onto consumers
is about as morally corrupt and unethical as they get. They certainly
aren't the first to attempt this of course.

Pete C.

The Davenport's wrote:

Jack the saw is amazing, and the post here are also. I posted a question a
few month ago when I had a misfire the thread went on for days. But the
saw
is great will be ordering a second one soon.
Joe


So, Joe...what I'm really wondering is when it misfires, does it kill the
saw blade? And if so, did the SawStop folk offer to replace it for you?

Mike

The system does indeed destroy the blade when it fires (correctly or
incorrectly). The blade is embedded into I believe an aluminum brake
shoe of sorts, about the only way to stop it that fast.

I prefer the most reliable safety system i.e. intelligence. I do not
place any part of my body in the "line of fire" of the saw blade when I
use my saw. This includes not standing in the potential path of thrown
wood or blade teeth in addition to keeping fingers safely away from the
blade.

Pete C.

"Dave Balderstone" wrote in message
...
In article , stoutman

**** you, too.

Gee Dave I seldom resort to cursing because I generally know how to put into
work what I want to say. Goodbye.

"Upscale" wrote in message
...

I'd suggest that the general consensus is that the saw is acceptable as
long
as money doesn't have to be spent on false activations and as long as the
tendency to use unsafe practices around the Sawstop do not take over
because
of it's safety features.

In other words, if I needed a tablesaw, I'd consider the Sawstop as being
completely practical as long as I don't needlessly have to spend money or
become a danger to myself while operating it.


I totally agree. I suspect that the misfires were taken care of in a
favorable manner.

"mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" "mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" wrote
in message ...
You know, this is why people don't like newsgroups. ALL I was saying is
that I found this saw to be amazing. Okay, SHOOT ME! I'm sorry!!!!

Damn, what is it with people? I didn't know this was "common" knowledge
and I thought I'd share it.

I apologize for trying to be nice.

Jack

Do not apologize Jack, you did nothing wrong. This is a holy war for some
and some people simply cannot handle the fact that the SawStop exists.

It's ok Jack, some people have issues. I have a SawStop TS and I'm
quite happy with it. I may not agree with all their ideals (we must
require everyone buy our technology) but they make a very nice saw. I
justified the price (~4000 including extension table, 5HP motor, and
shipping) by the fact that as a software developer, losing the use of
my hand, even temporarily would seriously interfer with my work. And
the cost of a single injury could well outweigh the cost of the saw.
I'm still cautious when working with it as the technology is not
failsafe, but if I scrwe up, it's there.

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
The system does indeed destroy the blade when it fires (correctly or
incorrectly). The blade is embedded into I believe an aluminum brake
shoe of sorts, about the only way to stop it that fast.

I prefer the most reliable safety system i.e. intelligence. I do not
place any part of my body in the "line of fire" of the saw blade when I
use my saw. This includes not standing in the potential path of thrown
wood or blade teeth in addition to keeping fingers safely away from the
blade.


Good Luck with that.

Pete C. wrote:
"mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" wrote:

Okay, I watched the video and all I could say was "WOW!". This saw is
probably fairly expensive. Besides, I have a nice one and am always
very careful.

http://www.sawstop.com/how-it-works-videos.htm

But it only takes one mistake to lose a finger. Click on the link and
watch the videos linked on the site. It's amazing. I have to ask - is
this for real or is this some kind of high tech joke?

Has anyone else seen this machine before?

Jack


Technologically it is interesting, however it has failed miserably from
a business perspective since the public doesn't want it.

I don't know about that. However, people have too much babying today.
If you stick your finger on the blade, you deserved to loose it. Take
your medecine like a man.


Further reason to not patronize the company is the fact that in their
desperation to recover the development costs for their failed product
they are attempting to get the government to require manufacturers to
license and incorporate their technology in new saws.


Sounds a lot like the insurance industry to me. They will have to
grease a lot of pockets to make that happen. Especially not that their
cards are on the table.

This of course is essentially trying to get the government to force
consumers to purchase the product. Not only should you not patronize a
company as unethical as the sawstop folks, you should actively oppose
their corrupt efforts.

Pete C.



Yea. And what a bonehead move. Patents only last so long...Anyway I
saw this years back and thought it was pretty cool. The guy deserves
some money for his invention, but none for any 'extortion' he may try in
the future :P

--
Thank you,



"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes 9:16

"stoutman" .@. wrote in message
m...

Must be very cold up there. eh? Can't think straight Canuck?


Now you have gone and done it. Dave has Plonked you. I wish he would plonk
me.

"Leon" wrote in message
et...

"stoutman" .@. wrote in message
m...

Must be very cold up there. eh? Can't think straight Canuck?


Now you have gone and done it. Dave has Plonked you.

Not a big loss.
I wish he would plonk me.

That's easy.
Just ask him how to make a jig to convert a jointer into a bandsaw or a
table saw into a drill press or (insert ridiculous jig here)

--
Stoutman
http://www.garagewoodworks.com
(Featuring a NEW look)

Dave Balderstone wrote:
In article , Leon
wrote:


So the tech would not be as good if it was mandated?


"Mandated" is not a word.

Mandate is a noun. Nouns do not have tenses.

What are you trying to say?

I think he's trying to say that it's required. Abd perhaps that he's
one of those individuals who doesn't like government telling him how to
live his life - at least that aspect of his life that concerns primarily
his own well-being.


I don't know what dictionary you checked but you have to check beyond
the main word entry...

man·date (măn'dÄ?t')
n.
An authoritative command or instruction.
A command or an authorization given by a political electorate to its
representative.

A commission from the League of Nations authorizing a member nation to
administer a territory.
A region under such administration.
Law.
An order issued by a superior court or an official to a lower court.
A contract by which one party agrees to perform services for another
without payment.
tr.v., -dat·ed, -dat·ing, -dates.
To assign (a colony or territory) to a specified nation under a mandate.
To make mandatory, as by law; decree or requi mandated desegregation
of public schools.

The above was off the internet. Just to be sure, I checked Webster's
New World Dictionary and they also list it as a transitive verb.

Then again, your main point is well taken. Akin to cutting off one's
nose to spite their face. I'm not aware of any law being broken in
attempting to create a market for one's product through legislation -
especially in matters of safety.

If anyone doubts this, simply look back at things like, oh, seatbelts,
motorcycle helmets, etc. Which came first? The product or the mandated
usage thereof?

"stoutman" .@. wrote in message
Must be very cold up there. eh? Can't think straight Canuck?

Now, now, lets not bring country insults into it. Especially, considering
that you guys down south of us have that dead soldier nut living in your
country. Any insults you may throw at us Canadians are dwarfed by some of
the miscreants you allow to live in the US.

In article , Leon
wrote:

Gee Dave I seldom resort to cursing because I generally know how to put into
work what I want to say.

I assume you meant words rather than work... I generally only say what
I want to say, too. In this case I sincerely meant to say "**** you,
too".

I don't mind cursing if I REALLY mean it. Mostly, the people I want to
flip off aren't worth a curse, but you, Leon... You get the special
treatment.

Be proud.

--
Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest.
- Mark Twain.

"Upscale" wrote in message
...
"stoutman" .@. wrote in message
Must be very cold up there. eh? Can't think straight Canuck?

Now, now, lets not bring country insults into it. Especially, considering
that you guys down south of us have that dead soldier nut living in your
country. Any insults you may throw at us Canadians are dwarfed by some of
the miscreants you allow to live in the US.

LOL...

Now, now, lets not bring country insults into it. Especially, considering
that you guys down south of us have that dead soldier nut living in your
country.
Your right! Sorry. It was thrown in the heat of the moment. My apologies
to all my Canadian buddies!

Any insults you may throw at us Canadians are dwarfed by some of
the miscreants you allow to live in the US.

Now thats below the belt.

The Upscale entity posted thusly:

"stoutman" .@. wrote in message
Must be very cold up there. eh? Can't think straight Canuck?

Now, now, lets not bring country insults into it. Especially, considering
that you guys down south of us have that dead soldier nut living in your
country. Any insults you may throw at us Canadians are dwarfed by some of
the miscreants you allow to live in the US.

Are you under the misapprehension that 'Canuck' is an insult. I know
he meant it as such, but it's about as insulting to a Canadian as
'American' is to him.