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Woodworking (rec.woodworking) Discussion forum covering all aspects of working with wood. All levels of expertise are encouraged to particiapte. |
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![]() Well guys, lunacy got the better of me and I drove down to the local Industrial Machinery dealer to look at REAL table saws. I've had enough of the warped table, 30" fence, noisy motor, and crappy cuts on my cheap old contractor saw. Looked around the place to see what other possible options existed. General 50-185 - nahh - yet another cheesy imported contractor saw. Decent looking Bies clone fence, made in Canada, but without the handle retaining magnet. Same old twin parallel-bar arbor supports that twist ever so slightly every time you change blade angles. Taiwanese motor that looked pretty decent. Good paint job, that odd General color. Nicely detailed metal adjustment wheels, but the effect is ruined by the cheap-ass pin locators that allow the handles to flop around. Shoulda used a flat and setscrew, guys - it can't cost THAT much. After all, this is one of the main connections a user has with his machine. Table finish was pretty good - couldn't catch a fingernail on the mill marks, but there was an odd pattern to them.. General 650-T50 - much better, and the price demonstrates that fact. Won't break this one down, as it is way more expensive than I had in mind. But it did seem like a fine saw, with a nicely polished table. Delta 'Hybrid' - ugghh... there are no words to describe how I feel about this abortion. Completely Chinese. Flimsy contractor saw mech, motor in base, cheesy handwheels, promising on-off switch - but probably has under-rated pot-metal contacts, as do most. Table finish is fair, but I didn't bother to check for warpage. Not a contender. And the price? Get serious! I vowed to never own a Sears product again, even though I was a devout customer in the 70s and own about a thousand pounds of Craftsman Mechanics tools, but this thing makes their new hybrid look pretty good. There is something funky about the arbor as well. Powermatic PM66 - Fantastic saw, fantastic table finish, exceedingly smooth mechanism, great wheels, Baldor motor, great mobile base that moves this behemoth with a 52" fence and extension table effortlessly with one finger. Interestingly, it uses only 2 2V belts, rather than the three 3V belts generally seen in a saw of this caliber. I have no doubt, however, that it will cut anything you throw at it. The price reflects it's perfection - at $2200+. I'm not all that fond of Powermatic Gold - but if I could afford it, I could learn to love it. No Farm Store motors for this puppy, it doesn't appear to have a standard mounting frame, but a very proprietary motor mount. (As does the Delta Unisaw.) Ahhh, the Delta Unisaw - there it is. The table saw many a young man has dreamed of for well over 25 years. Biesemeyer, the fence that everyone likes, is pretty long in the tooth, but solid and very heavy. Very little deflection - locks down solid. But the faces are not replaceable without major surgery should they become damaged. And the adjustment screws are not very convenient to adjust. Good thing you only have to do it once. The fence rule is a thin metal affair that is glued to the fence rail. The Delta Uni Fence. The Uni Fence is pretty cool. Lots of neat looking fasteners and the adjustments seem easy to get to. Many novel features. Scale is up and out of the way - I like the look and feel, but it seems a bit complicated, and not straddle jig friendly at all. Saw proudly displays a sticker - Made in USA. But is it? Press on... Can't get into the motor housing, they still have the screw installed. Handwheels are heavy, but the castings are a little rough. And those shiny but rough T-shaped, winged locking knobs just look crappy - like a glorified wing nut. I suppose they work, but a triangle shape with the corners lobbed off and the in-betweens rounded inward would be much more appropriate. Or just round. The mechanism is fairly smooth. Clearly visible table milling marks, but nothing too bad. Blow molded double layer motor cover - this should help quiet the saw's motor. 4" dust port, chutes for dust collection. What appears to be a magnetic switch, but they just HAVE to call it a GPE switch - or is it a LVC? Damned acronyms. Switch looks rather dated. No paddle for quick shutoff, but the GO button is recessed, and the STOP button is a mushroom. Should be easy enough to hit in a hurry, and is located just below the fence rail on the left of the saw. It's sure as hell an improvement over the "Switch of Death" that came on my current saw. Chinese saw blade. Cripes, why do they do that? Just sell the damned saw and let the user save a few bucks and buy a real blade of his choice. The extension table is nothing special, and has rough lumber showing on the end. It's not flush to the saw table wing, but it's close - could be assembly error and abuse. Oh, and the blade guard, what a joke. It allegedly props up for blade changes, but don't count on it staying there. It's no wonder so many of these things end up sitting in a dusty shop corner. Most of the saws on display are thrown together haphazardly or incompletely. Not a good way to make a positive first impression. Damned, has every one just given up? Where is the pride in workmanship? For that matter, where is the greed that one assumes would demand a good showing of your wares? Oh, well. Welcome to the 21st century - where nobody gives a ****. Here's the deal - they have a stack of refurbished 36-L31XBC50 saws for $1249. Pretty good deal, even with a few warts. So I bought one. I picked a salesman who actually looked me in the eye and said "Hello" when I came in. Most of them wandered around and ignored me. A nice old gentleman in a flannel shirt - named Ron. Don't get me wrong, I don't want anyone hanging over my shoulder, pressuring me like a car salesmen, but Jeeze... Look in my direction once or twice, act interested, acknowledge my existence. Got it loaded up fairly quickly. The forklift operator was careful. Thanked the salesman, tied it down with ratcheting straps brought for the job, and left. Man, is the road in this industrial park pathetic. Holes and railroad tracks so deep you have to slow to 2 MPH to keep from bottoming the suspension. Carefully, cautiously, I completed the trek home. Watching for every cell-phone yakking idiot, every red-light running moron - and there were a slew of them. Man, I hate cities like this. Fortunately, I don't have far to go - about 10 miles. Arrived at the homestead and carefully backed into the drive. I don't want anything untoward happening to this saw - it's got to last a lifetime. (Which in my case, probably isn't that long...) http://www.thevideodoc.com/Images/unisaw01.jpg Unloaded all the accessories, and then came the moment that separates mice from men. Pulled the tailgate and slid two 2x10s with metal hooks over the bumper. Slid the saw to the edge and down the planks. No problem, but man is this thing heavy! SWMBO helps push the monster out of the bed, and helps stabilize it from tipping over. Great! It's on the ground. Now for the hand truck. Wow, it's STILL heavy as hell. Carefully rolled it into the garage - the tip sensor says everything is OK - no red. Everything should be cool. http://www.thevideodoc.com/Images/unisaw02.jpg Stripped the straps and box. The pallet just falls off - the attaching screws have been ripped off in some previous life, and all that was holding it to the saw are the straps. Well, that's OK - I don't have to find a wrench and crawl around on the floor looking for fasteners. I pulled the extension wings off the table surface, and placed them on the now empty box. These things are heavy as hell! http://www.thevideodoc.com/Images/unisaw03.jpg I stand back for a good look. Cabinet looks like new, base is not bent, switch isn't broken. But wait, what's this? My heart implodes. The tilt adjustment shaft looks wonkey. Maybe it's an illusion. So I scramble towards the saw for a closer look. http://www.thevideodoc.com/Images/unisaw05.jpg Yea, something's funny here, the end of the shaft looks smashed. I pull the motor cover and wrestle with the expanded foam bags and foam blocks. These have apparently been foamed in place, 'cause its darn near impossible to remove them - even with the motor lifted and tilted to an optimum angle. Finally, I hold my mouth in just the right position and they fly to freedom. I pull the blade and hardware box from the base, and open it, frantically looking for the handwheel and shaft key. What's this? A crummy, poorly stapled, one sided copy of the owners manual, for a different model, and no parts list or exploded diagrams. (Yes, I know you can download copies, it's just not the same as an original.) http://www.thevideodoc.com/Images/unisaw04.jpg I slip the key in the slot and it doesn't fit properly. I finally find a position that it accepts and slide the wheel over the shaft. Uh-Oh.. it doesn't go on very far. But it's enough to rotate the shaft. My worst fears are confirmed. The shaft is bent! About 2 inches into the cabinet, there is a severe bend. ARRGGHH!!! http://www.thevideodoc.com/Images/unisaw06.jpg So I inspect the reminder of the saw - what's this? Apparently the saw has been damaged previously, and the front trunnion has been replaced. It appears that a large monkey with a sledge hammer has been recruited to repair this saw. The motor shaft has been driven in with a hammer and the shaft is peened over from the blows. And a WEG motor - made in Brazil of all places. No Baldor for MY Unisaw. Well, at least it's not Chinese. Unlike the handwheels, accessory castings, the miter gauge, and most of the hardware. http://www.thevideodoc.com/Images/unisaw07.jpg A quick scan of the net shows no outstanding motor problems, and WEG motors are used in a number of applications - including huge 100 HP industrial models. I guess it'll be OK. Then I notice the serial number has been cut from the unit. How fracken tacky - makes it look like stolen merchandise. I don't mind the refurb sticker, but in this age of computer tracking, wouldn't it suffice to simply tag it in the computer as a refurb and affix a label designating it as such? Is it necessary to totally orphan the unit by slicing away it's birth certificate? They don't do this with refurb electronic equipment. http://www.thevideodoc.com/Images/unisaw13.jpg I rub away the cosmolene to reveal the table surface. The surface finish on the table is rough - so rough you can file your fingernails down on the grooves. This has me very concerned. Sliding a piece of wood over the surface with slight pressure results in wood dust on the table. The table has been ground so far that the miter bar is only ..001" below the surface of the table at points. The edges of the miter slot are sharp, and will have to be chamfered slightly, for fear of physical injury. I checked the table with a machinist straightedge and feeler gauges. The main table is flat within .003", averaging slightly better. The side extensions are generally flat within .003", but there is one dip that is out .006" They are milled the with the same finish the table. I have not mounted the extensions, so I cannot comment on the overall flatness and alignment of the top assembled. http://www.thevideodoc.com/Images/unisaw09.jpg Certainly nothing like the Delta jointer I bought a couple years ago. http://www.thevideodoc.com/Images/unisaw11.jpg There is a curious bracket inside the saw, which from all appearances will prevent a blade from being mounted. It's not mentioned in the instructions, and since I didn't get a fricken parts manual, I don't know what it is yet, or whether I am supposed to remove it. Probably has to do with stiffening the carriage for shipping. Check out the table finish, under the gooey stuff. http://www.thevideodoc.com/Images/unisaw10.jpg On the plus side, the fence, rails, extension table and legs are all new items. As is the disposable Chinese blade - it should work fine for cutting up 2x4's. The Forest Woodworker II is coming off the old contractor saw tomorrow. http://www.thevideodoc.com/Images/unisaw08.jpg I checked for interference with the motor and such, plugged it in, and fired it up. It thumped like a cold nylon bias-ply tire for a several seconds but smoothed out after a few more. The belts had been sitting in the same spot for over a year according to the serial number - no wait, THERE ISN'T ONE - according to the date on the refurb sticker. Haven't got time tonight to clean it up and REALLY go over it, but so far, it's seems functional - but that table is damned rough. The cabinet is clean, the accessories new, the price was considerably cheaper than the NEW Unisaw. You can't blame Delta for the damage to the shaft which was probably caused by the shipper slamming the unit into the side of the truck cargo bay, thereby ripping the pallet holdowns from the base and bending the shaft. I CAN blame Delta for not providing a stack of captive cardboard or high density foam to protect it. And lumpy belts are just the nature of rubber belts that have sat for an extended period. I believe they will smooth out once it is fully assembled and run in. I'll perform the infamous dime test later on. (Inflation, ya know.) My initial impression is that the Grizzly 1023SL table finish is looking pretty good at this point, but I am still fearful of shipping damage with these as well. And I was able to place my hands on the Delta immediately. But the poor table finish leaves me somewhat disappointed. Lest you think I am a Delta basher, have a look at this. The Taiwanese imports were excellent. And I've put up with some marginal quality on some of their Chinese stuff, simply to support them, and Norm, and PBS, and a US based company - in hopes that things would get better. But my loyalty has been wavering. I have a Jet lathe and some Dewalt and Bosch tools, but Delta has been the mainstay. http://www.thevideodoc.com/Images/unisaw12.jpg I'm not soliciting sympathy, or support, or even comments from the wREC. This is an hour wasted simply as a public service - to save others from any unexpected surprises should they decide to purchase one of these saws. And pardon me for being concerned, but I like to buy things that are Made in America. Even if many of the parts are imported. It's nice to see my neighbors working and able to afford food and overpriced heating oil. Hell, I'll be eating rice and beans for the next year... Granted, I've been a bit harsh, and the saw will probably run fine for many years. But the fit and finish are not quite up to the standards I expected from the grand old name of Unisaw. But you get what you pay for - minus stock commissions. I'll do a thorough test & alignment after I decide what to do with it. The table, although certainly flat enough for woodworking, is in serious need of some polishing. And it looks like I'll have to tear down the mech and replace that blasted bent shaft, 'cause there's no way I'm loading this thing back up to swap for another unit. And allowing another trained monkey to hammer shafts into place is not even a realistic consideration. It'll give me a chance to "bond". There is no better way to understand the inner workings of a machine than to tear it down and put it back together again. Then, when or if something goes wrong, or you hear a funny sound, you know exactly what it is and what to do about it - saving yourself time, energy, and quite possibly, serious bodily injury. I guess I've got to think up a name for her... Was Halloween full of horror this year? You decide! Greg G. |
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