"Upscale" wrote in message
...
"Leon" wrote in message
only 10% are against the SawStop because if SawStop continues to thrive
the
other manufacturers will most certainly have to get on the band wagon to
satisfy the remaining 90% of us. Most likely with more manufacturers
offering this type safety feature the price of this technology will
come
down.

I don't believe that. There's always that segment of the population who
are
going to be driven solely by cost. Just like chiwanese products that are
flooding North America, there would always be a market for a non sawstop
table saw. However, it would be nice if the price of the technology would
come down. I'm counting on that process to happen a little bit more before
I
buy my first flat panel computer monitor and first 60" flat screen TV.


Hi -

Be glad to show you one at the downtown Toronto store ....just have to ask!
(once we're open that is....April 3rd),

We're replacing every table saw we have with Sawstops. (and selling off the
saws we have!)

The bottom line for us is that it's a high-end, well-made tool.... with
excellent safety features. Yes - it's a tad costly... but we have literally
hundreds (if not thousands) people using our shop saws each year .... and
it's not a question of "if" an accident happens - it's "when"....and that's
what makes the decision for us.

Probabilties (and economics) take on a different slant with size.....

Cheers -

Rob

"Robin Lee" wrote in message
.. .


Hi -

Be glad to show you one at the downtown Toronto store ....just have to
ask!
(once we're open that is....April 3rd),

We're replacing every table saw we have with Sawstops. (and selling off
the
saws we have!)

Is this the real Robin Lee Speaking??? ;~)


The bottom line for us is that it's a high-end, well-made tool.... with
excellent safety features. Yes - it's a tad costly... but we have
literally
hundreds (if not thousands) people using our shop saws each year .... and
it's not a question of "if" an accident happens - it's "when"....and
that's
what makes the decision for us.

I would say a very smart decision.

"Leon" wrote in message
t...

"Robin Lee" wrote in message
.. .


snip


Is this the real Robin Lee Speaking??? ;~)

snip

Hi Leon -

Just checked in the mirror.... and it is.

Cheers -

Rob

wrote in message
oups.com...

Suppose ROBERT actually 'signed' his articles
ROBERT FUBAR , what difference would that make?

Besides, with but a modicum of cleverness, ROBERT
could 'sign' his articles 'Dave Balderstone'. Which is why *I*
post under an alias.


There some people that actually believe that using and showing your whole
name makes your comments more credible. What cracks me up is that whether
you use your own whole name or some one else's whole name they will never
know the difference.

"Robin Lee" wrote in message
We're replacing every table saw we have with Sawstops. (and selling off
the
saws we have!)

Are any of your employees buying those used saws? Just for the purposes of
discussion, it would be interesting to know how many of them would buy those
older saw while at the same time being aware of why they are up for sale.

Any of those saws a General 650-T50 or 350-T50 ? If so I might be interested
in one. And considering the topic at hand, the cost of a Sawstop is out of
my reach, whereas a regular tablesaw is not out of reach. For me, anyway,
it's a matter of having a standard cabinet saw or not having one at all.

The bottom line for us is that it's a high-end, well-made tool.... with
excellent safety features. Yes - it's a tad costly... but we have
literally
hundreds (if not thousands) people using our shop saws each year .... and
it's not a question of "if" an accident happens - it's "when"....and
that's
what makes the decision for us.

Probabilties (and economics) take on a different slant with size.....

That "tad costly" has to be considered minimal when that accident(s) happen.

And of course, you're a business. You have a responsibility to the safety of
your employees. Failure to adhere to that responsibility could cost LV
dearly. I don't believe the average home owner would have the same viewpoint
to safety that you're forced to adopt.

"Robin Lee" wrote in message

Be glad to show you one at the downtown Toronto store ....just have to
ask!
(once we're open that is....April 3rd),

April 3 eh? Got it bookmarked. Going to be sending invitations out? Barbeque
in front of the store? Any opening day specials? I'll be there to inspect.

In article .com,
wrote:

WTF do you care?

I don't. I wasn't the one who made the comment about anonymity making
people brave.

--
Talking about art is like dancing about architecture - Frank Zappa

On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 17:58:47 -0700, "mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net"
"mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" wrote:

Expensive and probably does have other problems

That's what I expected, but from the (purely paper) details I've seen so
far it appears to be a good high-end saw at a good price.

However I would never touch one of this company's products. The gimmick
is a partial solution at best (simple guards already avoid most of these
problems and it does nothing to stop kickback). Trying to enforce
regulation to sell their product is underhand at best.

On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 03:49:09 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:

What are we doing wrong?

Switch it to "sausage cutting mode". There is a switch, presumably for
just this purpose.

Dave Balderstone quoted and replied:

WTF do you care?

I don't. I wasn't the one who made the comment about anonymity making
people brave.

Well, now I am really confused. You don't care, but you had to ask
anyway. Just nosy?

Since I didn't post anything that required any kind of internet branded
bravery, I can only assume you want my name for your Christmas list....
or maybe a long walk in the moonlight. So let me give you some real
info about me. Let's not get hung up on names... I don't even care if
Dave isn't your real name...

For my birthday, I would like nice steak and a good cabernet. Some
roses would be nice too, you rascal. Gift certificates are always
nice... I'm pretty easy to get along with.

And I did catch your earlier explusion of disbelief:

wrote:
ROBERT
(for those reading impaired)


Yeah, right.

I checked with Mom, and big guy, it is indeed Robert. Whew!

I hope that doesn't mean I am off the Christmas card list.

Robert (for real!)

You do indeed have it wrong. Capitalism is about making money.
It has nothing to do with the superiority of the product.

VHS beat out Beta.
PC's outsell Macintosh.

Marketing trumps technology.


John Carlson wrote:

I guess I've had it wrong all these years. I always thought capitalism had
something to do with building a superior product so the public would freely
choose to buy it, not with lobbying the government to force people to buy
something that they didn't want.

To reply by e-mail, use jcarlson631 at yahoo dot com
-- jc

You really think there's such thing as "concensus" in a usenet
newsgroup?

Leon wrote:
Umm This has been discussed time and time again in the last 3 or so years.

The general consensus is that most every one here would rather not buy the

In article ,
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:

Down at the sausage factory we no longer make links, but extrude one huge
sausage and cut it to length on the table saw. Production was up and we
made a lot of money so we bought some new saws from a company called Saw
Stop. Looked like a good product, but we've been having a lot of failures
every time we cut a sausage. What are we doing wrong?

Simple... it's supposed to be:
"Cut the cheese"
"Hide the sausage"

The Mike Berger entity posted thusly:

You do indeed have it wrong. Capitalism is about making money.
It has nothing to do with the superiority of the product.

VHS beat out Beta.

Because Sony did not pay attention to what the public wanted the
most... length of recording on one tape.

PC's outsell Macintosh.

Because few people wanted to access the computer through a single
button. How would you like to build a hutch and sideboard using only
one finger?

Marketing trumps technology.

And misreading the public's wants is a sure road to failure.

Mike Berger wrote:

You do indeed have it wrong. Capitalism is about making money.

No, you have it wrong, too. State-owned firms in a socialist system
also try to make money. One might argue that private ownership of
capital (capitalism) increases the focus of managers on profit
relative to those working for state-owned firms, but it is a lot more
complicated than saying that "capitalism is about making money".
Capitalism is about who owns the capital.
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

wrote in message

For my birthday, I would like nice steak and a good cabernet. Some
roses would be nice too, you rascal. Gift certificates are always
nice... I'm pretty easy to get along with.

Easy to get along with? Right! And, so am I if someone wants to bribe me.
g

"alexy" wrote in message
Mike Berger wrote:

You do indeed have it wrong. Capitalism is about making money.

No, you have it wrong, too. State-owned firms in a socialist system
also try to make money. One might argue that private ownership of
capital (capitalism) increases the focus of managers on profit
relative to those working for state-owned firms, but it is a lot more
complicated than saying that "capitalism is about making money".
Capitalism is about who owns the capital.


True capitalism is based on enlightened self interest, with a healthy dose
of moral rectitude required.

It would do well for all of you (and our present Lawyer/MBA culture) to go
read Adam Smith, again, or for the first time.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/13/05

Swingman wrote:

True capitalism is based on enlightened self interest, with a healthy
dose
of moral rectitude required.


Here, here. I am a dyed in the wool capitalist, but I do charity work
when I can. I like money and some of the things it can buy, but I
don't covet it. Our current culture seems to thing that capitalism is
bad... especially if they haven't found financial success.

The self employed plumber that is a one man shop is just as much
capitalist as someone like Ken Lay. Without "moral rectitude", you can
see however where Ken Lay has landed along with his cohorts. But the
plumber that feels like he can work harder, smarter, in a more clever
fashion with less waste sees capitalism as a way to get ahead. Respect
for money and the system that allows you to make it is part of
capitalism.

In my reading, too many times the examples I see about how bad and
unfair capitalism is to society is simple confusion about lack of
ethics or integrity in the case when people have money. Lack of ethics
or integrity used to get more money (or anything else) is called
"greed". Capitalism is a system, a type of economic methodology. It
is nothing else; if one wants to be greedy and get more money by
underhanded means, this is not "capitalism". It is avarice.

Strangely, the same system that Sawstop used (an attempt to get ahead
and win economic advantage) was the same system that shut down that
effort. The "I'm not gonna pay for it, you can't make me pay for it,
I'll cut my fingers off first" is a true sign
of capitalism at work. A choice of perceived value was made and it
ended the effort.

Hopefully, the questions of "how much would that cost change the
manufacturing processes?" and "how much would it add to the cost?" On
top of that, if it added too much $$$ to the bottom line to implement
the govt. monitoring of the new Sawstop program, I am sure the folks
listening didn't want hear more bitching and court cases about how
unfair it was that one group owned the technology. Besidie, where
would the money come from to implement and monitor these changes? A
tax increase? Then the thinking has to come down to, "how many of
those woodworkers are actually my constitients that would make me want
to increase taxes, and then listen to me get skewered as a pork barrel
politician?"

And just maybe.. maybe.. one of the nitwits in Washington that listened
to their pitch was able to see what was going on. You may have to just
go with me on that last one. Personally, I don't know how far this
effort got since I have never even met or talked to anyone that knew
when it was presented to Congress in any way.

And I am wondering how far it actually got. After all, I don't recall
anyone here regaling us with tales of their soirre to Washington to
fight the Sawstop campaign. I never signed a petition from angry
woodworkers to stop Sawstop or their nefarious campaign; I never heard
of any grassroots movement to stop them by an angry citizenry of
woodworkers made up of "the common man". A lot of ****ed off people
here that don't like Sawstop or capitalism, but I never saw them on the
news "speaking out" against the Sawstop conspiracy.

But just like Homer Simpson says, it is fun to strike a blow against
the man. It may not amount to much, and you may not have actually done
anything but talk about it. But it is fun. I think a lot are just as
like the guy in the new Sprint commercial that is "sticking it to the
man".

Robert

On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 00:32:33 +0000, Andy Dingley
wrote:

That's what I expected, but from the (purely paper) details I've seen so
far it appears to be a good high-end saw at a good price.

However I would never touch one of this company's products. The gimmick
is a partial solution at best (simple guards already avoid most of these
problems and it does nothing to stop kickback). Trying to enforce
regulation to sell their product is underhand at best.

The biggest problem I have with it is that it's really unnecessary. A
woodworker exercising reasonable caution has nothing to fear from the
tablesaw, and anyone who is so terrified of it probably shouldn't be
using it in the first place. There are thousands and thousands of
woodworkers out there who have all of their fingers and toes after
years of woodworking and they didn't need more than the guards and
splitters that came with the tablesaw.

The safety saw is ridiculously expensive for what you get, and
whenever it goes off, for whatever reason, it ruins your expensive saw
blade, plus requires you to buy a new expensive brake insert. These
things don't reset, people, you have to throw it away and start over
fresh. And as you say, it doesn't do a thing against kickback and
other real hazards.

"Brian Henderson" wrote in message
...

The biggest problem I have with it is that it's really unnecessary. A
woodworker exercising reasonable caution has nothing to fear from the
tablesaw, and anyone who is so terrified of it probably shouldn't be
using it in the first place. There are thousands and thousands of
woodworkers out there who have all of their fingers and toes after
years of woodworking and they didn't need more than the guards and
splitters that came with the tablesaw.

And there are thousands and thousands that have lost their fingers. Have
you ever cut yourself ,EVER, with a knife? A lapse of judgement can be
quite costly and NO ONE is incapable of having an accident regardless of how
safely you think you operate a TS.
It certainly is not necesssary but if you can afford it, it's well worth
consideration.


The safety saw is ridiculously expensive for what you get, and
whenever it goes off, for whatever reason, it ruins your expensive saw
blade, plus requires you to buy a new expensive brake insert.

I would rather the saw falsely trip 30 times and correctly on the 31st time
than not trip at all.

These
things don't reset, people, you have to throw it away and start over
fresh. And as you say, it doesn't do a thing against kickback and
other real hazards.

Well in your own words, A woodworker exercising reasonable caution has
nothing to fear from the
tablesaw. With proper caution a kick back is not going to harm you either.
That said, the saw does indeed have a riving knife that goes a long way in
preventing kickback.


I wish you luck and to remain safe with your wood working.

Brian Henderson wrote:

The biggest problem I have with it is that it's really unnecessary. A
woodworker exercising reasonable caution has nothing to fear from the
tablesaw, and anyone who is so terrified of it probably shouldn't be
using it in the first place. There are thousands and thousands of
woodworkers out there who have all of their fingers and toes after
years of woodworking and they didn't need more than the guards and
splitters that came with the tablesaw.
Kinda reminds me of the logic my son used to use when as a young teen
he objected to wearing a helmet and wrist guards while rollerblading
"because I'm not doing tricks, so don't plan to fall". And like the
thousands of woodworkers who haven't yet been hurt at their saws, he
has never been injured in a rollerblading accident


--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

"Leon" wrote in message

I would rather the saw falsely trip 30 times and correctly on the 31st
time
than not trip at all.

Ahh, but that could never happen. If your saw tripped falsely 30 times,
you'd have hung yourself long before then.

Upscale wrote:

Ahh, but that could never happen. If your saw tripped falsely 30
times,
you'd have hung yourself long before then.

HAH! No kiddin'!.

On another note, I going to have to remember the logic in this thread
when one of these guys has his teenage kiddo (who has used all tools
since birth under strict supervision) whack off a finger due to a lapse
in judgement. Or when one of the guys gets his shirt caught in a
machine and it yanks him in (I am thinking of those farmers that have
lost arms, etc. that I used to feel sorry for; now, set straight by
this group I think they may have deserved it), or maybe in a crowded
shop someone trips and falls on the machine. I will then post this
thread so you can remember that you don't need additional protection,
and if you or yours did something to yourself by accident, you may have
deserved it.

I think that some are forgetting that professionals that use tools all
day long get tired, but still have to work. They are sick, but still
need to pay bills. You get tired, and in a Cinderella world, you go
home and rest. But in the real world, deadlines loom. And the more
tired you are, the more mistakes you make and the more accident prone
you are. There is also the probablility of scale. Dinking around in
your garage screwing with the tools when it isn't football season,
holidays, family birthdays, anniversaries and on an on it not the same
as doing work with machinery all day long, day in and day out.

Not everyone is some hobby guy working in half his garage when his wife
lets him make a box or two for the grandkids, or put up a new shelf as
a weekend project. If you use tools enough, you will get hurt.
Period.

I think the saw is properly positioned in the market place. If you
don't need it or want it, you don't have to buy it. What a concept.
And those that do, can. And since some like the concept, that doesn't
make them some kind of candy assed weenie. I would probably have them
if I did more cabinets since I would feel better about they guys
working with a table saw with a blade brake.

Many years ago I saw a young man slip on the concrete (clean by the
way, it was an accident) while he was ripping MDF for new formica tops.
He was at the end of the rip so he was pushing the 16" wide piece from
the back, and in that position he thought he was going to go head first
in the saw. He got both hands out to stop himself, but one came up a
finger short. We finally found the finger, but at that time they were
unable to connect anything more than the vessels, so it shrank up some
after they sewed it on, but never worked right again. I know, I know.
He never should have slipped in the first place.

And here's the topper for those that are worried about the cost. Since
they reported have the brake problems all worked out, if you never
stick your hot dog in the damn blade, it will never fire off, and you
will never ruin your blade or the brake shoe. Just like I tell the
guys that work for me, learn to keep your hot dog out of trouble and
you will be a lot safer and happier. Wait... maybe it wasn't actually
a hot dog when I was talking to them...

Robert

wrote in message
shop someone trips and falls on the machine. I will then post this
thread so you can remember that you don't need additional protection,
and if you or yours did something to yourself by accident, you may have
deserved it.

I was thinking of an accident happening through no fault of your own. The
dog comes in and brushes against your leg distracting you. Something falls
off a shelf startling you. A power failure plunges you into darkness and you
slip against the still spinning blade in the dark.

The more I read about this, the more I'm thinking a Sawstop is a pretty good
idea, especially considering that I work from an awkward height ~ sitting in
a wheelchair. But, for me anyway, it's way out of my financial reach.
Besides, if I cut off a finger, it won't cost me anything up front, except a
lot of pain and cursing. One advantage anyway, of our Canadian medical
system.

Upscale wrote:
wrote in message
shop someone trips and falls on the machine. I will then post this
thread so you can remember that you don't need additional protection,
and if you or yours did something to yourself by accident, you may have
deserved it.

I was thinking of an accident happening through no fault of your own. The
dog comes in and brushes against your leg distracting you. Something falls
off a shelf startling you. A power failure plunges you into darkness and you
slip against the still spinning blade in the dark.

snip

I don't recall anything about Sawstop still working for any length of
time after the power goes out to prevent this. The owners manual
http://www.sawstop.com/Cabinet_Saw_Manual.pdf page 11 of 100 says "To
prevent loss of Sawstop protection during coast down, do not turn off
main power until blade has stopped spinning."
UPS for a table saw?
Joe

wrote in message

I think the saw is properly positioned in the market place. If you
don't need it or want it, you don't have to buy it. What a concept.
And those that do, can. And since some like the concept, that doesn't
make them some kind of candy assed weenie. I would probably have them
if I did more cabinets since I would feel better about they guys
working with a table saw with a blade brake.

The reality is that now that the technology is commercially available it
will be difficult to legally defend an employer who doesn't take advantage
of it to protect employees from the certainty that accidents happen. And
insurance risk managers will be mandating it, if they are not already doing
so.

So, in effect, even if some don't want it, they may not have really a choice
.... a slick position for the patent holder.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/13/05

"Upscale" wrote:

wrote in message
shop someone trips and falls on the machine. I will then post this
thread so you can remember that you don't need additional protection,
and if you or yours did something to yourself by accident, you may have
deserved it.

I was thinking of an accident happening through no fault of your own.
All in how you look at it. You can accept blame for just about
anything--you could have prevented it. But that's the reason to take
all reasonable safety precautions. To me, it's not a question of
whether saw stop is a good idea--it's just whether it is reasonable at
this point.

The
dog comes in and brushes against your leg distracting you.
You fault. Why didn't you have a door closed or barrier up to prevent
this?

Something falls
off a shelf startling you.
You fault. You should stack things more carefully, and anticipate what
might happen if they fall.

A power failure plunges you into darkness and you
slip against the still spinning blade in the dark.
Your fault. You mean you didn't install a backup power supply on your
lighting?

The more I read about this, the more I'm thinking a Sawstop is a pretty good
idea, especially considering that I work from an awkward height ~ sitting in
a wheelchair. But, for me anyway, it's way out of my financial reach.
I'm fully ambulatory, but I feel exactly the same way.
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

Joe Gorman wrote:

Upscale wrote:
wrote in message
shop someone trips and falls on the machine. I will then post this
thread so you can remember that you don't need additional protection,
and if you or yours did something to yourself by accident, you may have
deserved it.

I was thinking of an accident happening through no fault of your own. The
dog comes in and brushes against your leg distracting you. Something falls
off a shelf startling you. A power failure plunges you into darkness and you
slip against the still spinning blade in the dark.

snip

I don't recall anything about Sawstop still working for any length of
time after the power goes out to prevent this.

Good point. That might be a feature of "SawStop II", to be introduced
about the time the patent on SawStop I runs out.

--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

"Upscale" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
shop someone trips and falls on the machine. I will then post this
thread so you can remember that you don't need additional protection,
and if you or yours did something to yourself by accident, you may have
deserved it.

I was thinking of an accident happening through no fault of your own. The
dog comes in and brushes against your leg distracting you. Something falls
off a shelf startling you. A power failure plunges you into darkness and
you
slip against the still spinning blade in the dark.

Ahh. The words that come from an open mind. Not getting hurt using a TS and
proper technique is the easy part. It's the untontrollable variables that
come into play that cause accidents.


The more I read about this, the more I'm thinking a Sawstop is a pretty
good
idea, especially considering that I work from an awkward height ~ sitting
in
a wheelchair. But, for me anyway, it's way out of my financial reach.
Besides, if I cut off a finger, it won't cost me anything up front, except
a
lot of pain and cursing. One advantage anyway, of our Canadian medical
system.

Perhaps as production ramps up and or the consumer demands better safety
devices from the companies that are waiting to see what happens with the
SawStop the competitive pricing will make it more affordable to every one.
I cut 1/2 my thumb off in 1989. My insurance covered a majority of the
expense but I have had to adapt as you have. My accident happened after I
completed the cut and turned the saw off, and began removing the rip fence.
Every one that knew me could not believe that I had an accident. It all
happened so fast and at a time that you would not dream that something like
this could happen. For months I thought that I'd had a kick back but until
I almost had the accident again about 1 year later I never knew what had
happened exactly. I had been into serious woodworking about 10 years.

"Joe Gorman" wrote in message
...

I don't recall anything about Sawstop still working for any length of time
after the power goes out to prevent this. The owners manual
http://www.sawstop.com/Cabinet_Saw_Manual.pdf page 11 of 100 says "To
prevent loss of Sawstop protection during coast down, do not turn off main
power until blade has stopped spinning."
UPS for a table saw?
Joe

Good thought.

"Swingman" wrote in message
news
wrote in message

The reality is that now that the technology is commercially available it
will be difficult to legally defend an employer who doesn't take advantage
of it to protect employees from the certainty that accidents happen. And
insurance risk managers will be mandating it, if they are not already
doing
so.

I totally agree and apparently so does Robin Lee.


So, in effect, even if some don't want it, they may not have really a
choice
... a slick position for the patent holder.

I have never been one that thinks that having to buy something that you do
not want is a good idea however this technology is really a good idea. For
me personally I see this working out exactly the same way that seat belts,
air bags, grounded electrical appliances, the "over the blade" TS guard, the
guard on circle saws, the odor added to natural gas, break away hoses on
filling station gas pumps, and most any other safety modification all came
into existance.

Swingman wrote:

The reality is that now that the technology is commercially available it
will be difficult to legally defend an employer who doesn't take
advantage
of it to protect employees from the certainty that accidents happen.
And
insurance risk managers will be mandating it, if they are not already
doing
so.

So, in effect, even if some don't want it, they may not have really a
choice
.... a slick position for the patent holder.

Sage words, indeed. As a veteran business man yourself, you KNOW this
is coming sooner or later. I don't think it is around the corner, but
soon. And the inventor will profit accordingly until the Chiwanese
come up with their own reverse engineered version.

Many years ago I was totally annoyed by the fact that some circular saw
makers decided to put blade brakes on their saws. I was ****ed off a
the fact that the saw would jerk so hard at the end of the cut it would
yank itself around on the work. I understood the intent a lot better
after having the blade guard hang open while cutting some splintery
stuff. I set the saw down and it skittered across the concrete and
rolled over my foot. Going to fast, it didn't do anything but scare
the living crap out of me. In my mind at that point it was clear why
someone would want a blade brake. They still aren't prevalent, but
most manufacturers at least off a circular saw with the blade brake.

Look at miter saws - I think they all have blade brakes now. No
telling how many digits have been saved by that introduction. And
cordless drills - does anyone make one anymore that doesn't? I wonder
how many injuries have been averted by those?

The good news is that we still have a choice. Anyone can do anything
that they want with their saw right now, and I am sure that when they
are widely introduced that it will be mandatory for the civil rights
militia to immediately figure out and post instructions on how to
defeat the system. Much like some used to roll up their seatbelts and
stick them in the separation of the bench to back inside the car.

Then their lives can go on unfettered by another safety device that was
obviously designed for someone else.

Robert

"Joe Gorman" wrote in message

I don't recall anything about Sawstop still working for any length of
time after the power goes out to prevent this. The owners manual
http://www.sawstop.com/Cabinet_Saw_Manual.pdf page 11 of 100 says "To
prevent loss of Sawstop protection during coast down, do not turn off
main power until blade has stopped spinning."
UPS for a table saw?

I was referring to a residential power failure, not someone turning off the
main power. It only takes a fraction of a second to cut off a finger. As far
as I know, other than it's safety feature, the sawstop doesn't have a brake,
so it will take a few seconds to spin down.

"alexy" wrote in message
A power failure plunges you into darkness and you
slip against the still spinning blade in the dark.

Your fault. You mean you didn't install a backup power supply on your
lighting?

Aren't you reaching a bit? I know the technology exists for backup power
supplies, but honestly, how many people do you know who have set it up. A
computer, electronic equipment, ok, but general house or workshop lighting?

"Upscale" wrote:

"alexy" wrote in message
A power failure plunges you into darkness and you
slip against the still spinning blade in the dark.

Your fault. You mean you didn't install a backup power supply on your
lighting?

Aren't you reaching a bit?
Yes. That was my point. Sorry if I was not clear.

I know the technology exists for backup power
supplies, but honestly, how many people do you know who have set it up. A
computer, electronic equipment, ok, but general house or workshop lighting?


--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 20:34:34 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:

And there are thousands and thousands that have lost their fingers. Have
you ever cut yourself ,EVER, with a knife? A lapse of judgement can be
quite costly and NO ONE is incapable of having an accident regardless of how
safely you think you operate a TS.

And most of them, if you talk to them, were careless when they had
their accident. It's up to people to be careful and know when a
particular cut is safe and when it is not. If the cut is not safe,
one should not make it regardless of the safety equipment you have on
your saw.

It certainly is not necesssary but if you can afford it, it's well worth
consideration.

I never said it couldn't be useful, I just said it was more costly
than it was worth IMO. On the other side, having something like that
could give someone a false sense of security and lead to taking more
risks than they would otherwise.

Well in your own words, A woodworker exercising reasonable caution has
nothing to fear from the tablesaw. With proper caution a kick back is not
going to harm you either.

That's why most saws come with a splitter as standard equipment, it
prevents kickback. Without a splitter, it is difficult, if not
impossible on some cuts, to keep the kerf from closing on the far side
of the blade.

It isn't all that hard to keep your finger away from the spinning
knives of death if you think about what you're doing and you use the
standard safety equipment. How much do you want to bet that most of
the woodworkers who have lost fingers were working without a blade
guard?

On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:18:05 -0500, "Upscale"
wrote:

"Leon" wrote in message
I would rather the saw falsely trip 30 times and correctly on the 31st
time than not trip at all.

Ahh, but that could never happen. If your saw tripped falsely 30 times,
you'd have hung yourself long before then.

You'd probably have sold the saw by then since you couldn't afford to
keep replacing the blade and stop. You know that, even assuming the
blade and stop only cost $250 total to replace, you could buy almost
*4* whole new tablesaws?

You could make your shop look like Norm's for that!

On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 17:52:18 -0500, alexy wrote:

Kinda reminds me of the logic my son used to use when as a young teen
he objected to wearing a helmet and wrist guards while rollerblading
"because I'm not doing tricks, so don't plan to fall". And like the
thousands of woodworkers who haven't yet been hurt at their saws, he
has never been injured in a rollerblading accident

Sorry, there's a reason there is safety equipment. The above is like
saying you don't need to use the saw guard or the splitter or push
sticks, your finger fits between the fence and the blade... sort of...

The safety equipment we have now works just fine, we don't need
another piece of mandatory, expensive equipment, that isn't
demonstrated to be any better than what we have, any more than I'm
sure rollerbladers would be terribly happy to be told they have to
wear full-body baloon-suits, just in case.

"alexy" wrote in message
Aren't you reaching a bit?
Yes. That was my point. Sorry if I was not clear.

My mistake. Occasionally, I've been accused of being too serious. I guess
this is one of those times.

You've got to include the emoticons for me to at least have a chance of
laughing. :-)

"Brian Henderson" wrote in message

It isn't all that hard to keep your finger away from the spinning
knives of death if you think about what you're doing and you use the
standard safety equipment. How much do you want to bet that most of
the woodworkers who have lost fingers were working without a blade
guard?

Honestly, I think you're being a little short-sighted. I certainly don't
agree with Sawstop trying to get its technology mandated, but I can easily
see it's value. There's always going to be the unknown that suddenly appears
to bite you in the ass. The Sawstop to me is the same as a seatbelt in a
car. It's there *if* something unforeseen happens. Nobody, or at least very
few people I know go out driving to be unsafe, yet accidents happen.

As to my opinion on seatbelts for cars, I have a picture that is categorical
evidence that seat belts saves lives ~ my life in this instance.