On Fri, 31 Mar 2017 02:18:22 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Friday, 31 March 2017 08:55:01 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
Again ... "They're cute, usually cuddly (if you respect their wishes)"
Great, a pet that chooses when you can pet it. ;-(

Like women.

Luckily not the women I've known and sometimes married. ;-)

But a tin of tuna occasionally is a lot cheaper than hats and diamonds.

That part is true ... not that I've ever bought any of my women either
of those things either.

I turned the wedding ring on my lathe (in brass and had it gold
plated) for my current wife (nearly 30 years so far) because I knew
that would mean more to her than anything I could buy ... and luckily
it did. ;-)

She doesn't want diamond rings or hats, just her Yamaha XV750 kept
clean and running smoothly. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Fri, 31 Mar 2017 02:19:04 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, 31 March 2017 08:55:01 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 16:25:19 +0100, "Mark" wrote:
"ARW" wrote in message
news On 28/03/2017 21:38, wrote:
On Tuesday, 28 March 2017 10:02:32 UTC+1, I wrote:
Which shows how wrong God was as Cat is perfection in a soft furry coat.


although there was a ferret on the bus this afternoon which was quite
sweet too.


you have probably seen this
"Cats do not need the attention a dog does but when it gives you attention
is not false. They select who they want to be with."

Exactly ... hardly great credentials for something that is supposed to
be a 'companion animal'.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39440934

Maybe these are 'new men' ... those more in touch with their feminine
side or just want 'a pet' they can let out into (or have free access
to via a cat-flap) other peoples gardens to use as a toilet or bother
to walk. They certainly don't want something they could take out with
them all the time and be required by law to clear up after and to be
'in full control of'.

Again ... "They're cute, usually cuddly (if you respect their wishes)"

Great, a pet that chooses when you can pet it. ;-(

But that seems to be part of the appeal for some people ... it's like
they don't actually want a real 'companion animal' but just something
they are loosely responsible for and only ruins some of their
belongings. [1]

Cheers, T i m

[1] We have been given all sorts of furniture over the years and the
last (via Freecycle) was a very nice 3 seater leather sofa and two
leather side chairs that looked like new. I asked if they had ever
used them and they said yes, for 15 years and that included by the
Labrador puppies that the bred. Anything given to us by a cat owner
was generally ripped up somewhere.

If you ever get any real understanding of cats, let us know.

I have a full understanding of cats mate because I haven't had my
brain turned to mush by close contact with them (as in 'owning one').

In any case, it's nothing to do with what they are it's what they
would give / offer *me* .. and that is no more than a rabbit, guinea
pig or rat.

And I don't hate cats, as they know as they are often on my lap as
soon as I sit down in any house that has one (their idea), but just as
daughters (rescue) dwarf hamster is 'cute', it is a nasty little
'b*stard' with a powerful bite and again therefore, not something O
would want regular / close contact with. One of her two rescue rabbits
is quite a character and is very friendly (enjoying being stroked etc)
but would be no use to me whatsoever (the same as a cat / guinea pig /
rat etc) as a 'companion animal'. Neither have ever even shown the
slightest need to scratch or bit me though, even if they didn't want
to be stroked or picked up, unlike nearly *every* cat I've ever come
across.

I also appreciate all of the 'cat' family (big or small /
domesticated) for the features that make that species different but
that doesn't make me want one as a 'companion animal', any more that
I'd have pot bellied pig or lama. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

p.s. FWIW, outside the duty of having to look after other people
responsibilities when they go on holiday and don't take their
'companion animal' with them (as we always did), we don't currently
have a pet of any sort and that's the way I intend it to stay (because
of the commitment / cost / responsibility etc).

On Fri, 31 Mar 2017 20:29:50 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

snip

"Cats do not need the attention a dog does but when it gives you attention
is not false. They select who they want to be with."

Exactly ... hardly great credentials for something
that is supposed to be a 'companion animal'.

Works fine when they select you as that one did with Adam.

snip

In the sense that a 'stray' animal (had it been a dog would have been
collected by the local council and if not claimed within a reasonable
period and couldn't be identified by the mandatory chip it's supposed
to carry, re-homed or destroyed), wandered into his like and
therefore could easily wander out again (after wandering though and
crapping in other peoples gardens).

http://www.yourdogsneeds.co.uk/micro...-law-a-86.html

Another example of where dogs and their owners are (quite rightly)
obliged to conform to all sorts of rules and regulation re the
responsibility to and for their 'possessions' whereas cat owners (in
the main) do not.

Some people can live with that (and claiming FET payments and other
moneys at the expense of others) and others can't.

If *your* pet in under your full control and doesn't stray onto my
property (and potentially damage it) or become a nuisance to others
(though fouling, violence or noise etc) then most people CGAF what you
consider to be a 'partner animal'.

All I know is that 'Mans best friend' is still a dog (after fish
apparently g) and until I see people regularly sharing walks or
holidays / trips to the pub with their 'companion' cat, rat or fox,
I'll assume that dogs still hold that position.

"Here Tiddles, sniff these packages for drugs / explosives / cash /
weapons ... Tiddles, come back ... come back now! "

Cheers, T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 16:25:19 +0100, "Mark" wrote:


"ARW" wrote in message
news
On 28/03/2017 21:38, wrote:
On Tuesday, 28 March 2017 10:02:32 UTC+1, I wrote:
Which shows how wrong God was as Cat is perfection in a soft furry
coat.


although there was a ferret on the bus this afternoon which was quite
sweet too.


you have probably seen this
"Cats do not need the attention a dog does but when it gives you attention
is not false. They select who they want to be with."

Exactly ... hardly great credentials for something that is supposed to
be a 'companion animal'.

Well no you have got that wrong, we are the 'companion animal' to the cat.

And thats what makes them so different to a dog which is a pack animal and
bred to be subservient to us.

-

On 31/03/2017 16:48, Mark wrote:
"T i m" wrote in message

Exactly ... hardly great credentials for something that is supposed to
be a 'companion animal'.

Well no you have got that wrong, we are the 'companion animal' to the cat.

And thats what makes them so different to a dog which is a pack animal and
bred to be subservient to us.


:-)

And if I had a 2.4 children family, did regular work hours etc then I
would have consider having a dog.


--
Adam

On 31/03/2017 08:54, T i m wrote:

[1] We have been given all sorts of furniture over the years and the
last (via Freecycle) was a very nice 3 seater leather sofa and two
leather side chairs that looked like new. I asked if they had ever
used them and they said yes, for 15 years and that included by the
Labrador puppies that the bred. Anything given to us by a cat owner
was generally ripped up somewhere.

It's not ripped, it has been loved:-)


--
Adam

On 31/03/2017 16:48, Mark wrote:
snip

"Cats do not need the attention a dog does but when it gives you attention
is not false. They select who they want to be with."

Exactly ... hardly great credentials for something that is supposed to
be a 'companion animal'.

Well no you have got that wrong, we are the 'companion animal' to the cat.


Really? Most cats I've come across don't seem to GAF if they have a
single (human) 'companion' or not ... going as far as wandering away
from one and joining another.

And thats what makes them so different to a dog which is a pack animal and
bred to be subservient to us.

Well, the suggestion that 'all dogs are pack animals' is highly
questionable (they are now domesticated and look to us not other dogs in
a 'pack' for their survival) and just 'why' dogs are 'companion animals'
and in comparison (to the range of things humans and dogs can share) aren't.

And of course big cats tend to live and hunt in a pack (pride etc) and
so it could be said are no different from wolves (not domesticated dogs)
in that regard.

I'm not saying that (some) cats can't be good companions because they
obviously are to many, but they can only be such to a lower level than
of a dog from a more general understand of the term for the reasons you
give. In the same way a pet rat, duck or pot bellied pig could appear to
enjoy your company and attentions but like a cat, wouldn't typically go
out with you on long walks or go running with you whilst you run or
cycle etc. ;-)

Cat's can be fun of course ... well our whippets and lurcher certainly
found chasing them out of our back garden so and had they caught one, it
would only be 'nature' and 'what dogs do' as to what happened next eh?
If that works for cats and wild birds, protected newts, frogs and
expensive pet fish, it should equally work for dogs or pet hawks etc?

Cheers, T i m






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On 31/03/2017 18:45, ARW wrote:
snip

And if I had a 2.4 children family, did regular work hours etc then I
would have consider having a dog.


Is the right reasoning etc. ;-)

I can also understand (as an 'animal lover') how one can end up becoming
a surrogate 'owner' of a cat (typically, them just wandering into your
life) or a dog / hamster / Guinea pig / rabbit / budgie when an owner
doesn't want them or can't keep them any more. For 15 or so years we
'looked after' 3 rescue dogs (as technically you are more fostering than
adopting them as such) and all 3 'came along' via word of mouth because
they ended up ownerless for some reason or another, not because we went
out looking for one (so similar to you in a way).

Cheers, T i m








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On Friday, 31 March 2017 12:27:29 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 31 Mar 2017 02:19:04 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:

If you ever get any real understanding of cats, let us know.

I have a full understanding of cats mate because I haven't had my
brain turned to mush by close contact with them (as in 'owning one').

You're certainly keen to rant about your failure to get it.


NT

On 31/03/2017 18:53, ARW wrote:
On 31/03/2017 08:54, T i m wrote:

[1] We have been given all sorts of furniture over the years and the
last (via Freecycle) was a very nice 3 seater leather sofa and two
leather side chairs that looked like new. I asked if they had ever
used them and they said yes, for 15 years and that included by the
Labrador puppies that the bred. Anything given to us by a cat owner
was generally ripped up somewhere.

It's not ripped, it has been loved:-)

;-)

So, is it tat cat owners simply 'give up' trying to get their 'companion
animals' to behave socially in their shared home and so just seem to
accept such things as often as they seem to?

Do their brains finally turn to mush and then they simply accept that
their cat knocking an expensive vase of the shelf or a can of beer into
their MacBook Pro, or walking across food preparation surfaces are just
'one of those things'?

Of course we know that many animals can and do do damage to houses /
decoration / furniture but most hope that those behavioural patterns
could be trained out of a dog (at least)?

We came across what is the biggest Terrier I've ever seen today in the
form of a 1 year old 'Black Russian Terrier' bitch. Initially wary of
strangers she soon warmed to us and didn't bite or scratch us once. ;-)

Cheers, T i m






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On 31/03/2017 20:56, wrote:
On Friday, 31 March 2017 12:27:29 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 31 Mar 2017 02:19:04 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:

If you ever get any real understanding of cats, let us know.

I have a full understanding of cats mate because I haven't had my
brain turned to mush by close contact with them (as in 'owning one').

You're certainly keen to rant about your failure to get it.



And you respond just as someone who has their brain mushed by such
pointless [1] creatures would. ;-)

Mans best friend (not even / just T i m's) is a dog' and unfortunately
for you, I'm not sure there is a known cure for your inability to accept
/ understand that. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[1] AFA a real 'companion animal' is concerned, other than to mad old
'cat ladies' of course. weg







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In message , T i m
writes

I'm not saying that (some) cats can't be good companions because they
obviously are to many, but they can only be such to a lower level than
of a dog from a more general understand of the term for the reasons you
give.

I agree with Adam that, to a certain extent, one's choice of pet is, or
should be, dependant on lifestyle. I was an unashamed cat person for
50+ years, which was great. Cats are self sufficient, and I was out at
work all day. It worked for both of us.

Wifey took ten years to convince me we needed a dog, but we were self
employed by then, and it worked. We ran a PO and the dog lived behind
the counter with us for three years, before we retired. She had a great
time - all the villagers knew her, spoke to her, as did the posties.
We retired nearly four years ago, and she has an even better life, with
us all the time. It is true that dogs are far more a part of your life
than cats in that she is always with me. Even if I'm painting a wall,
she will settle down with me. Days in the garden are favourite, of
course. The other side of the coin is that dogs need more attention
than cats. She is walked twice a day, every day. All of that is a
price worth paying. When I pop out to the shops, she will sit by the
gate until I return. A cat would just open one eye then go back to
sleep :-)

--
Graeme

On 31/03/2017 22:09, Graeme wrote:
In message , T i m
writes

I'm not saying that (some) cats can't be good companions because
they obviously are to many, but they can only be such to a lower
level than of a dog from a more general understand of the term for
the reasons you give.

I agree with Adam that, to a certain extent, one's choice of pet is,
or should be, dependant on lifestyle. I was an unashamed cat person
for 50+ years, which was great. Cats are self sufficient, and I was
out at work all day. It worked for both of us.

Agreed (whilst retaining the consideration of just how much a cat could
ever be as a 'companion pet' etc).

As a kid and a day on the coast (Gravesend) with my parents I spotted an
injured rock dove, managed to catch it and ignoring my parents requests
to leave it where it was, I took it home. I took it to the vet and they
put a tie around the broken part of her wing and after a week or so it
fell off. I built her a cat proof roost at the bottom of the garden and
she soon became sufficiently tame to step onto my hand and even stay on
my shoulder I whilst I walked about locally. This included the local
petrol station / garage.

After a good 6 months a cousin came to visit and long short, he threw
her into the air and much to my and her surprise, she flapped up onto
the house roof. However, after a while she flew back down to her roots
and whilst she continues 'doing her own thing', she would still step
onto my hand / shoulder. Then we went on holiday and when we came back
she had gone, but the guy in the garage next door said she had been in
there looking for me. So, I 'get' what it's like to befriend an animal
(wild in this case) and I also appreciated they had lives outside of us.


Wifey took ten years to convince me we needed a dog, but we were
self employed by then, and it worked.

Yup, it takes more responsibility to be a good 'companion' to a dog than
it does a cat.

We ran a PO and the dog lived
behind the counter with us for three years, before we retired. She
had a great time - all the villagers knew her, spoke to her, as did
the posties.

Plenty of 'enrichment' for her then. ;-)


We retired nearly four years ago, and she has an even
better life, with us all the time.

Yup, all our whippets have been 'with ya' dogs (they just want to be
with you no matter what you are doing or how uncomfortable to situation).

It is true that dogs are far more
a part of your life than cats in that she is always with me. Even if
I'm painting a wall, she will settle down with me.

IMO that defines the real meaning of a 'Companion animal' Graeme.

Days in the
garden are favourite, of course. The other side of the coin is that
dogs need more attention than cats.

'Need' as in desire / enjoy and again, that is a big part of the two way
relationship with a 'companion animal'.

She is walked twice a day, every
day. All of that is a price worth paying. When I pop out to the
shops, she will sit by the gate until I return. A cat would just
open one eye then go back to sleep :-)

I *have* been 'greeted' on my return by a cat but never with the same
enthusiasm of most dogs.

Today I struck up a conversation on the pavement with a dog / owner ...
something often done because 1) dogs and their owners *are* often out in
public and together and 2) many people like to talk to dog owners and
their companions and most dogs also enjoy the experience.

It was funny the other day to see daughters cat loving workmate try to
approach a local wandering cat with all the 'aaah, are you lovely, here
pussy pussy' type talk only to have it turn round and lash out at her. I
suggested drop kicking it up the lane g but 'of course' and even
though it had scratcher her for trying to be friendly she still thought
it was a nice cat??

Had anyone's dog got out and done the same they would be onto the
Council like a shot and it could well be put down. ;-(

Cheers, T i m




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"T i m" wrote in message
news
On 31/03/2017 22:09, Graeme wrote:
In message , T i m
writes

I'm not saying that (some) cats can't be good companions because
they obviously are to many, but they can only be such to a lower
level than of a dog from a more general understand of the term for
the reasons you give.

I agree with Adam that, to a certain extent, one's choice of pet is,
or should be, dependant on lifestyle. I was an unashamed cat person
for 50+ years, which was great. Cats are self sufficient, and I was
out at work all day. It worked for both of us.

Agreed (whilst retaining the consideration of just how much a cat could
ever be as a 'companion pet' etc).

As a kid and a day on the coast (Gravesend) with my parents I spotted an
injured rock dove, managed to catch it and ignoring my parents requests
to leave it where it was, I took it home. I took it to the vet and they
put a tie around the broken part of her wing and after a week or so it
fell off. I built her a cat proof roost at the bottom of the garden and
she soon became sufficiently tame to step onto my hand and even stay on
my shoulder I whilst I walked about locally. This included the local
petrol station / garage.

After a good 6 months a cousin came to visit and long short, he threw her
into the air and much to my and her surprise, she flapped up onto the
house roof. However, after a while she flew back down to her roots and
whilst she continues 'doing her own thing', she would still step onto my
hand / shoulder. Then we went on holiday and when we came back she had
gone, but the guy in the garage next door said she had been in there
looking for me. So, I 'get' what it's like to befriend an animal (wild in
this case) and I also appreciated they had lives outside of us.


Wifey took ten years to convince me we needed a dog, but we were
self employed by then, and it worked.

Yup, it takes more responsibility to be a good 'companion' to a dog than
it does a cat.

We ran a PO and the dog lived
behind the counter with us for three years, before we retired. She
had a great time - all the villagers knew her, spoke to her, as did
the posties.

Plenty of 'enrichment' for her then. ;-)


We retired nearly four years ago, and she has an even
better life, with us all the time.

Yup, all our whippets have been 'with ya' dogs (they just want to be with
you no matter what you are doing or how uncomfortable to situation).

It is true that dogs are far more
a part of your life than cats in that she is always with me. Even if
I'm painting a wall, she will settle down with me.

IMO that defines the real meaning of a 'Companion animal' Graeme.

Days in the
garden are favourite, of course. The other side of the coin is that
dogs need more attention than cats.

'Need' as in desire / enjoy and again, that is a big part of the two way
relationship with a 'companion animal'.

She is walked twice a day, every
day. All of that is a price worth paying. When I pop out to the
shops, she will sit by the gate until I return. A cat would just
open one eye then go back to sleep :-)

I *have* been 'greeted' on my return by a cat but never with the same
enthusiasm of most dogs.

Today I struck up a conversation on the pavement with a dog / owner ...
something often done because 1) dogs and their owners *are* often out in
public and together and 2) many people like to talk to dog owners and
their companions and most dogs also enjoy the experience.

It was funny the other day to see daughters cat loving workmate try to
approach a local wandering cat with all the 'aaah, are you lovely, here
pussy pussy' type talk only to have it turn round and lash out at her. I
suggested drop kicking it up the lane g but 'of course' and even though
it had scratcher her for trying to be friendly she still thought it was a
nice cat??

Had anyone's dog got out and done the same they would be onto the Council
like a shot and it could well be put down. ;-(

Cheers, T i m

You're wife has an awful lot to contend with.

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article , bm wrote:

"T i m" wrote in message
news

Had anyone's dog got out and done the same they would be onto the
Council like a shot and it could well be put down. ;-(

You're wife has an awful lot to contend with.

SWMBO was bitten by a dog a couple of years ago. We ended up at Medway
A&E.

The useless male at the house in question had no control over the
animal at all and was equally useless when it came to helping her. His
wife was much more use.

So yes, send the ****ers to the glue factory when they transgress.

I wonder what Dave would say?

Never mind, Tim. We've started the exodus, now which/what ******* is gonna
put the spanner in the works?
Someone will, count on it.

En el artículo , bm escribió:

You're wife has an awful lot to contend with.

Aye. It's little wonder cats don't like him either.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) "Between two evils, I always pick
(")_(") the one I never tried before." - Mae West

"T i m" wrote in message ...


daughters (rescue) dwarf hamster is 'cute', it is a nasty little
'b*stard' with a powerful bite

You are a dwarf hamster minus the cuteness and powerful bite AICMFP

p.s. FWIW, outside the duty of having to look after other people
responsibilities when they go on holiday and don't take their
'companion animal' with them (as we always did), we don't currently
have a pet of any sort and that's the way I intend it to stay (because
of the commitment / cost / responsibility etc).

We got that via your voting habits.

On Fri, 31 Mar 2017 23:53:24 +0100, "bm" wrote:

snip

You're wife has an awful lot to contend with.


She does indeed but we are best mates and on the matter of cats we
(and daughter) agree. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Sat, 01 Apr 2017 00:27:53 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

In article , bm wrote:

"T i m" wrote in message
news

Had anyone's dog got out and done the same they would be onto the Council
like a shot and it could well be put down. ;-(

You're wife has an awful lot to contend with.

SWMBO was bitten by a dog a couple of years ago. We ended up at Medway
A&E.

Not good.

The useless male at the house in question had no control over the
animal at all and was equally useless when it came to helping her. His
wife was much more use.

Luckily they (dog owners) *can* and are often held responsible for
such lack of control and can be fined / imprisoned and their dogs
destroyed.

So yes, send the ****ers to the glue factory when they transgress.

So, this dog leapt over your 6' high fence and was crapping on your
lawn when you went out to shoo it away when it attacked you? Or had
you just been stroking it for 10 minutes when it just turned round and
bit you (your Mrs)?

Cheers T i m

On Sat, 01 Apr 2017 01:22:37 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

snip


Undoubtedly some bugger will try. We threw off the shackles of a
foreign church in the 16thC and various tried to stop that. I view this
in the same light.

The point most of you left brainers who consider a 4% margin
represents any real 'decision' miss is that all these months on and
sill with no real idea of *exactly* how things will pan out that the
country and families / couples and still very much divided on the
whole Brexit thing.

If it was so cut_and_dried that it was such a 'good thing', wouldn't
the result have been way more in favour of a Brexit?

So, we have had a good workable bridge for the last 40 years and ok,
it's changed a bit and sometimes not in the way that everyone's likes
but on the whole it works and has allowed us to have the 4th highest
GDP in the world.

Now someone has proposed that because some 'narrow minded' people
think we are being overrun with immigrants we will (might) blow the
bridge up and use a ship instead ... but no one has even seen the
design for said new ship, let alone know how well it will serve us
doing the level of business we were before, let alone any new
business, nor if it will make any difference to the very thing 'most
people' (all be it silently in many cases) are bothered about,
emigration (as they will come in using their own smaller boats in any
case, well, the tiny percentage of immigrants who were coming in
illegally that is).

I think we should test the ship like they tested the 'B ark' on the
Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy and send all those who voted to leave
off in this new magic ship (called 'Greener Grass') and they can form
their own 'Little England' elsewhere. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Sat, 01 Apr 2017 09:27:07 +0100, T i m wrote:

On Sat, 01 Apr 2017 01:22:37 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

snip


Undoubtedly some bugger will try. We threw off the shackles of a
foreign church in the 16thC and various tried to stop that. I view this
in the same light.

The point most of you left brainers who consider a 4% margin
represents any real 'decision' miss is that all these months on and
sill with no real idea of *exactly* how things will pan out that the
country and families / couples and still very much divided on the
whole Brexit thing.

Give it a bloody rest, and I say that as someone who voted to stay
in.

We have gone past the debating point . If it turns out to be a huge
mistake then you will be able to crow about in the future.

G.Harman

On Sat, 01 Apr 2017 09:37:08 +0100, wrote:

On Sat, 01 Apr 2017 09:27:07 +0100, T i m wrote:

On Sat, 01 Apr 2017 01:22:37 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

snip


Undoubtedly some bugger will try. We threw off the shackles of a
foreign church in the 16thC and various tried to stop that. I view this
in the same light.

The point most of you left brainers who consider a 4% margin
represents any real 'decision' miss is that all these months on and
sill with no real idea of *exactly* how things will pan out that the
country and families / couples and still very much divided on the
whole Brexit thing.

Give it a bloody rest, and I say that as someone who voted to stay
in.

Sorry mate, NCD. This is a discussion group and that is all I am
doing, discussing whatever topics I choose and often only responding
to posts created by others.

We have gone past the debating point .

And that's why I'm still discussing it because that's far from the
truth. The 'discussion' re Brexit has only just started (filing A.50)
and we 'the people' can still play a very big part in that if we want
to.

If it turns out to be a huge
mistake then you will be able to crow about in the future.

I won't be able (nor would want) to 'crow' because 1) I didn't vote
and 2) I would very much hope that those who seem adamant in the face
of very little supporting evidence that things will be 'so much
better' ... I won't have to. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Sat, 01 Apr 2017 09:59:37 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

On Sat, 01 Apr 2017 09:27:07 +0100, T i m wrote:

On Sat, 01 Apr 2017 01:22:37 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

snip


Undoubtedly some bugger will try. We threw off the shackles of a
foreign church in the 16thC and various tried to stop that. I view this
in the same light.

The point most of you left brainers who consider a 4% margin
represents any real 'decision' miss is that all these months on and
sill with no real idea of *exactly* how things will pan out that the
country and families / couples and still very much divided on the
whole Brexit thing.

Give it a bloody rest, and I say that as someone who voted to stay
in.

He seems to be after the sort of certainty that doesn't, never has, and
never will exist.

I do?

I can see it now in 1939:

You can?

Chamberlain: We are now at war with Garmany.

Garmany? Where is that then or is it something else you have made up?

T i m: But can you tell us *exactly* how we will win it and by *when*?
The country and families / couples are still very much divided on the
whole Nazi thing.

Oh, that's so funny / relevant Tim (not).

Rather than scraping the barrel trying to spread FUD about me, why
don't you tell everyone what actual *facts* you voted on and how you
*know* the outcome of your Leave vote *will* positively impact
*everyone* in the future?

No speculation, no made up country names g, just pure, rational and
unequivocal fact (and not just about what you think is unfair or don't
like about EU membership).

Come up with any real hard proof that we WILL all be better off out of
the EU or that leaving is / was the only way to get things changed for
the better then I'll promise I'll not respond to the topic here again.
Remember, I didn't vote and really CGAF if we leave or stay, all I
care about is that we (a reasonable majority) made the right decision
for the right (and unequivocal and fully considered) reasons.

However, if all you can come up with is the hope that your personal
dreams might come to fruition or they might only start to benefit us
in say 100 years then ... ;-(

Cheers, T i m

"bm" wrote in message news
You're wife has an awful lot to contend with.

Your, your. I do apologise.

On Sat, 01 Apr 2017 10:07:35 +0100, T i m wrote:

On Sat, 01 Apr 2017 09:37:08 +0100, wrote:

Undoubtedly some bugger will try. We threw off the shackles of a
foreign church in the 16thC and various tried to stop that. I view this
in the same light.

The point most of you left brainers who consider a 4% margin
represents any real 'decision' miss is that all these months on and
sill with no real idea of *exactly* how things will pan out that the
country and families / couples and still very much divided on the
whole Brexit thing.

Give it a bloody rest, and I say that as someone who voted to stay
in.

Sorry mate, NCD. This is a discussion group and that is all I am
doing, discussing whatever topics I choose and often only responding
to posts created by others.

If you really want to discuss it start a new thread to debate it and
see if people are still interested.
Although thread drift is part of Usenet it usually follows a natural
progression whereas you seem to latch on any opportunity to engage the
Brexit topic.

OTOH I suppose you have followed a natural progression

Breeding Kittens to walking Dogs and now onto flogging Dead Horses.

G.Harman

On Sat, 1 Apr 2017 10:19:05 +0100, "bm" wrote:


"bm" wrote in message news
You're wife has an awful lot to contend with.

Your, your. I do apologise.


No need to apologise here, I'm not one of the grammar police (except
to those who generally are). ;-)

But yes, I am very lucky indeed and even though she's 6 years older
than me (a point considered when we met and with the thought that men
typically die earlier than women) she's still up for most things. ;-)

Like, even though she's got two replacement knees and suffers with
loads of (arthritic) aches and pains she'll be out with me lifting
boats on the roof of the car and sailing or cycling or motorcycling /
camping any loads of other stuff.

She doesn't want for fancy things and whilst she likes to get her
nails and hair done regularly and always looks very smart and
presentable is happy to roll her sleeves up and get stuck into
whatever mad thing I (or our friends / family) come up with.

At the same time she is often the voice of reason, especially when
it's something she knows is going to even further stretch what little
time we have available for 'more' projects but very rarely (if ever)
tells me I *can't* do something (and me likewise to her).

So, today she's gone out to meet up with some mates and I'll be doing
my own thing and whilst we probably won't be thinking of each other
during the day, we will be happier when we meet up again, even if we
are just sharing the std everyday things.

Because of all the above (and more weg[1]) is why I really hope I go
first as I really don't know what life would be like without her.

Cheers, T i m

[1] It's good to get your heart pumping a few times a week eh. ;-)

On 01/04/2017 09:59, Tim Streater wrote:

He seems to be after the sort of certainty that doesn't, never has, and
never will exist.

I can see it now in 1939:

Chamberlain: We are now at war with Garmany.

T i m: But can you tell us *exactly* how we will win it and by *when*?
The country and families / couples are still very much divided on the
whole Nazi thing.


Its a bit different now as the only war is within the UK.
It looks like harry will get his way and have a little england ruled by
englishmen once Scotland, Wales and Ireland are independent countries
who may even be in the EU.
Will that mean Gibralter and the others will also be given up? They want
to be British not English.

On Sat, 01 Apr 2017 10:41:49 +0100, wrote:

On Sat, 01 Apr 2017 10:07:35 +0100, T i m wrote:

On Sat, 01 Apr 2017 09:37:08 +0100, wrote:

Undoubtedly some bugger will try. We threw off the shackles of a
foreign church in the 16thC and various tried to stop that. I view this
in the same light.

The point most of you left brainers who consider a 4% margin
represents any real 'decision' miss is that all these months on and
sill with no real idea of *exactly* how things will pan out that the
country and families / couples and still very much divided on the
whole Brexit thing.

Give it a bloody rest, and I say that as someone who voted to stay
in.

Sorry mate, NCD. This is a discussion group and that is all I am
doing, discussing whatever topics I choose and often only responding
to posts created by others.

If you really want to discuss it start a new thread to debate it and
see if people are still interested.

1) No thanks and 2) why are you singling me out for thread drifts
mate? Re the first point, can you not see the / any difference between
responding to a comment in a thread and starting a new one (other than
the drift etc)?

Although thread drift is part of Usenet it usually follows a natural
progression whereas you seem to latch on any opportunity to engage the
Brexit topic.

And why shouldn't I (and not that I do particularly? It is as if you
personally don't want me to discuss certain things for some reason?
Isn't that what the 'Ignore' button on just not clicking on a post is
about? ;-)

OTOH I suppose you have followed a natural progression

Breeding Kittens to walking Dogs and now onto flogging Dead Horses.

Again, in your obviously no so unbiased opinion (and in a totally OT
pointless thread remember). ;-)

No, if I have a genuine and mostly on (the now broader range seen
here) topic I can and do start a new thread. It's just that I'm not
that interested in politics (including the politics of Brexit) but how
some seem to think they have a better handle on it than nearly as many
who think opposite.

If the vote had gone 75% leave then I'll not have said a thing, but it
didn't, it was nearer 50:50 and that (still) concerns me. Even our PM
(that I think is just another 'un elected bureaucrat?) voted to remain
but is now trying to negotiate as near as remain deal as she can on
behalf of all of us all (because she obviously wants to keep as many
of the god bits as possible), obviously against her own personal
wishes?

So tell me where this is all now cut_and_dried or that you know we are
doing the right thing (whatever that thing is)?

Cheers, T i m

On Sat, 1 Apr 2017 11:01:47 +0100, dennis@home
wrote:

On 01/04/2017 09:59, Tim Streater wrote:

He seems to be after the sort of certainty that doesn't, never has, and
never will exist.

I can see it now in 1939:

Chamberlain: We are now at war with Garmany.

T i m: But can you tell us *exactly* how we will win it and by *when*?
The country and families / couples are still very much divided on the
whole Nazi thing.


Its a bit different now as the only war is within the UK.

Not that we have had any wars within Europe for the last 40+ years eh.
;-)

It looks like harry will get his way and have a little england ruled by
englishmen once Scotland, Wales and Ireland are independent countries
who may even be in the EU.

He might not. Remember the 'divorce has only just started and *no one*
knows the terms as yet.

Will that mean Gibralter and the others will also be given up? They want
to be British not English.

It's potentially going to be a right mess (all the extra work required
can't be considered 'good' (and certainly won't be without cost)) with
ripples and consequences that even the likes of harry won't have fully
considered. But then do they care, as long as their own little cause /
crusade is satisfied?

(Not that I would consider anything harry says as likely to be 'good'
for anyone but harry ... like the FIT payments ... ). ;-(

Cheers, T i m

"T i m" wrote in message ...

On Sat, 01 Apr 2017 09:37:08 +0100, wrote:

Give it a bloody rest, and I say that as someone who voted to stay
in.

FYPFY
Sorry mate, OCD. This is a discussion group and that is all I am
doing, discussing whatever topics I choose and often only responding
to posts created by others.

On 01/04/2017 10:18, T i m wrote:
On Sat, 01 Apr 2017 09:59:37 +0100, Tim Streater

Rather than scraping the barrel trying to spread FUD about me, why
don't you tell everyone what actual *facts* you voted on and how you
*know* the outcome of your Leave vote *will* positively impact
*everyone* in the future?

No speculation, no made up country names g, just pure, rational and
unequivocal fact (and not just about what you think is unfair or don't
like about EU membership).

I would have thought its obvious that there are no rational "facts" that
can be called up about what will happen in the future. I am sure that
many people gave considerable thought to which option would likely lead
to the best outcome for them / us etc. However all of these would have
been based on speculation of what they thought was likely to happen in
the future.

Come up with any real hard proof that we WILL all be better off out of
the EU

There is no hard proof yet. There probably never will be. Even if the EU
were to spectacularly collapse in ten years, you could not reliably say
"see we were better off out" since one could equally argue that leaving
precipitated the collapse. Likewise had we voted to stay there is no
parallel universe we can observe where the opposite decision could play
out for us to observe.

or that leaving is / was the only way to get things changed for
the better then I'll promise I'll not respond to the topic here again.
Remember, I didn't vote and really CGAF if we leave or stay, all I
care about is that we (a reasonable majority) made the right decision
for the right (and unequivocal and fully considered) reasons.

We may find out, but don't count on it. Some people made the right
decision (where "right" for them could have been either leave or remain)
based on what they felt to be pertinent information.

However, if all you can come up with is the hope that your personal
dreams might come to fruition or they might only start to benefit us
in say 100 years then ... ;-(

May still be a valid choice if you have kids.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 01/04/17 09:59, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
wrote:

On Sat, 01 Apr 2017 09:27:07 +0100, T i m wrote:

On Sat, 01 Apr 2017 01:22:37 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

snip


Undoubtedly some bugger will try. We threw off the shackles of a
foreign church in the 16thC and various tried to stop that. I view this
in the same light.

The point most of you left brainers who consider a 4% margin
represents any real 'decision' miss is that all these months on and
sill with no real idea of *exactly* how things will pan out that the
country and families / couples and still very much divided on the
whole Brexit thing.

Give it a bloody rest, and I say that as someone who voted to stay
in.

He seems to be after the sort of certainty that doesn't, never has, and
never will exist.

I can see it now in 1939:

Chamberlain: We are now at war with Garmany.

T i m: But can you tell us *exactly* how we will win it and by *when*?
The country and families / couples are still very much divided on the
whole Nazi thing.

And indeed they were, with many people hoping the Nazis would invade and
get rid of all those filthy communists and labour people and those
disgusting jews.

Post war of course they showed their gratitude by voting him out and
letting those filthy lefty communists have a try at ruining the country,
which they were very successful at.


--
All political activity makes complete sense once the proposition that
all government is basically a self-legalising protection racket, is
fully understood.

In message ,
writes

Breeding Kittens to walking Dogs and now onto flogging Dead Horses.

That made me smile :-)
--
Graeme

On 01/04/17 13:21, Graeme wrote:
In message ,
writes

Breeding Kittens to walking Dogs and now onto flogging Dead Horses.

That made me smile :-)
not to mention bouncing dead cats and the appalling stench of last years
tench.


--
Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have
guns, why should we let them have ideas?

Josef Stalin

On 01/04/17 13:32, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/04/17 13:21, Graeme wrote:
In message ,
writes

Breeding Kittens to walking Dogs and now onto flogging Dead Horses.

That made me smile :-)
not to mention bouncing dead cats and the appalling stench of last years
tench.


That reminds me of this raving queen I used to know. A chap and his bird
were visiting. The Queen was highly dismissive of women, and the
atmosphere was icy...then the cat jumped onto the bird's lap.


"Oh look! The *cat* likes Karen".

There was a moments silence punctuated by a haughty sniff "It must be
the smell of fish".


--
Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have
guns, why should we let them have ideas?

Josef Stalin

On Saturday, 1 April 2017 09:27:09 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Sat, 01 Apr 2017 01:22:37 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

snip


Undoubtedly some bugger will try. We threw off the shackles of a
foreign church in the 16thC and various tried to stop that. I view this
in the same light.

The point most of you left brainers who consider a 4% margin
represents any real 'decision' miss is that all these months on and
sill with no real idea of *exactly* how things will pan out that the
country and families / couples and still very much divided on the
whole Brexit thing.

If it was so cut_and_dried that it was such a 'good thing', wouldn't
the result have been way more in favour of a Brexit?

So, we have had a good workable bridge for the last 40 years and ok,
it's changed a bit and sometimes not in the way that everyone's likes
but on the whole it works and has allowed us to have the 4th highest
GDP in the world.

Now someone has proposed that because some 'narrow minded' people
think we are being overrun with immigrants we will (might) blow the
bridge up and use a ship instead ... but no one has even seen the
design for said new ship, let alone know how well it will serve us
doing the level of business we were before, let alone any new
business, nor if it will make any difference to the very thing 'most
people' (all be it silently in many cases) are bothered about,
emigration (as they will come in using their own smaller boats in any
case, well, the tiny percentage of immigrants who were coming in
illegally that is).

I think we should test the ship like they tested the 'B ark' on the
Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy and send all those who voted to leave
off in this new magic ship (called 'Greener Grass') and they can form
their own 'Little England' elsewhere. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

God you talk some rubbish.

On Sat, 1 Apr 2017 12:30:39 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

On 01/04/2017 10:18, T i m wrote:
On Sat, 01 Apr 2017 09:59:37 +0100, Tim Streater

Rather than scraping the barrel trying to spread FUD about me, why
don't you tell everyone what actual *facts* you voted on and how you
*know* the outcome of your Leave vote *will* positively impact
*everyone* in the future?

No speculation, no made up country names g, just pure, rational and
unequivocal fact (and not just about what you think is unfair or don't
like about EU membership).

I would have thought its obvious that there are no rational "facts" that
can be called up about what will happen in the future.

Quite ... so, any move *from the status quo* is likely to be based on
something other than a 'poor quality of life' some think they may be
suffering currently in the UK (where any move / action, even one into
the unknown (as seen from the 'bigger picture') and so justifying such
a move (to them). Meanwhile, nearly an equal number of people in the
UK and potentially millions more outside aren't quite so sure what we
are playing at.

I am sure that
many people gave considerable thought to which option would likely lead
to the best outcome for them / us etc. However all of these would have
been based on speculation of what they thought was likely to happen in
the future.

Exactly ... and my main concern. Worse were those who secretly /
privately voted for some 'other agenda that was never going to and
never will happen in the first place (a simple example being the
*message* that £360B would go from the EU to the NHS. I saw someone (a
leaver of course) on TV try to argue that 'no one believed what was
written on that bus did they' and so it couldn't have made any
difference to the vote. You only had to listen to people talking on
the street and even some here to realise that many people *did* vote
specifically because of such lies and BS (as you say, even if it
doesn't change anything other than potentially ... the outcome of the
vote).

Come up with any real hard proof that we WILL all be better off out of
the EU

There is no hard proof yet. There probably never will be.

I know that, you know but and it seems that some can still make a
'decision' (toss a coin?) none the less.

Even if the EU
were to spectacularly collapse in ten years, you could not reliably say
"see we were better off out" since one could equally argue that leaving
precipitated the collapse. Likewise had we voted to stay there is no
parallel universe we can observe where the opposite decision could play
out for us to observe.

Quite, so and in light of no hard evidence suggesting anything really
changing for the worse (to most) in the future, (and not ruling out
the possibility of changing things from within in any case) I would
tend to look at what we had currently before gambling it with
something we hope to happen. 'A bird in the hand ...?'

or that leaving is / was the only way to get things changed for
the better then I'll promise I'll not respond to the topic here again.
Remember, I didn't vote and really CGAF if we leave or stay, all I
care about is that we (a reasonable majority) made the right decision
for the right (and unequivocal and fully considered) reasons.

We may find out, but don't count on it. Some people made the right
decision (where "right" for them could have been either leave or remain)
based on what they felt to be pertinent information.

Of course ... however, whilst I understand how someone might vote for
what they think / hope might be good for them .... that may not be any
real solace / result if everyone around them is worse off.

However, if all you can come up with is the hope that your personal
dreams might come to fruition or they might only start to benefit us
in say 100 years then ... ;-(

May still be a valid choice if you have kids.

Indeed ... (and I do) and whilst I am ware that 'things need to get
worse before they get better', what if they don't?

And nearly 50% of the voting population who actually voted and
possibly many of those sufficiently unsure what to vote (for the
best), even if forced to don't think us leaving the EU *will* be the
best move (the idea is that it's more likely for people on a crusade
on even a single topic, say 'immigration' or 'un-elected bureaucrats
in Brussels' (even if the realisation of it being a real issue was
unfounded) etc to go out and vote, than those who just wanted /
preferred to leave things as they were.

Interesting (if nothing else) times. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Sat, 1 Apr 2017 08:50:41 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Saturday, 1 April 2017 09:27:09 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Sat, 01 Apr 2017 01:22:37 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

snip


Undoubtedly some bugger will try. We threw off the shackles of a
foreign church in the 16thC and various tried to stop that. I view this
in the same light.

The point most of you left brainers who consider a 4% margin
represents any real 'decision' miss is that all these months on and
sill with no real idea of *exactly* how things will pan out that the
country and families / couples and still very much divided on the
whole Brexit thing.

If it was so cut_and_dried that it was such a 'good thing', wouldn't
the result have been way more in favour of a Brexit?

So, we have had a good workable bridge for the last 40 years and ok,
it's changed a bit and sometimes not in the way that everyone's likes
but on the whole it works and has allowed us to have the 4th highest
GDP in the world.

Now someone has proposed that because some 'narrow minded' people
think we are being overrun with immigrants we will (might) blow the
bridge up and use a ship instead ... but no one has even seen the
design for said new ship, let alone know how well it will serve us
doing the level of business we were before, let alone any new
business, nor if it will make any difference to the very thing 'most
people' (all be it silently in many cases) are bothered about,
emigration (as they will come in using their own smaller boats in any
case, well, the tiny percentage of immigrants who were coming in
illegally that is).

I think we should test the ship like they tested the 'B ark' on the
Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy and send all those who voted to leave
off in this new magic ship (called 'Greener Grass') and they can form
their own 'Little England' elsewhere. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

God you talk some rubbish.

Get nurse to read it to you, it might help you understand. ;-)

(And please don't call me 'God').

Cheers, T i m

On 31/03/2017 22:09, Graeme wrote:
In message , T i m writes

I'm not saying that (some) cats can't be good companions because they
obviously are to many, but they can only be such to a lower level than
of a dog from a more general understand of the term for the reasons
you give.

I agree with Adam that, to a certain extent, one's choice of pet is, or
should be, dependant on lifestyle. I was an unashamed cat person for
50+ years, which was great. Cats are self sufficient, and I was out at
work all day. It worked for both of us.

Wifey took ten years to convince me we needed a dog, but we were self
employed by then, and it worked. We ran a PO and the dog lived behind
the counter with us for three years, before we retired. She had a great
time - all the villagers knew her, spoke to her, as did the posties. We
retired nearly four years ago, and she has an even better life, with us
all the time. It is true that dogs are far more a part of your life
than cats in that she is always with me. Even if I'm painting a wall,
she will settle down with me. Days in the garden are favourite, of
course. The other side of the coin is that dogs need more attention
than cats. She is walked twice a day, every day. All of that is a
price worth paying. When I pop out to the shops, she will sit by the
gate until I return. A cat would just open one eye then go back to
sleep :-)


In winter my cat goes round to the next door but one neighbours when I
am at work and my central heating is off - before falling asleep on
their setee next to the radiator.



--
Adam

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 1 Apr 2017 10:19:05 +0100, "bm" wrote:


"bm" wrote in message news
You're wife has an awful lot to contend with.

Your, your. I do apologise.


No need to apologise here, I'm not one of the grammar police (except
to those who generally are). ;-)

But yes, I am very lucky indeed and even though she's 6 years older
than me (a point considered when we met and with the thought that men
typically die earlier than women) she's still up for most things. ;-)

Like, even though she's got two replacement knees and suffers with
loads of (arthritic) aches and pains she'll be out with me lifting
boats on the roof of the car and sailing or cycling or motorcycling /
camping any loads of other stuff.

She doesn't want for fancy things and whilst she likes to get her
nails and hair done regularly and always looks very smart and
presentable is happy to roll her sleeves up and get stuck into
whatever mad thing I (or our friends / family) come up with.

At the same time she is often the voice of reason, especially when
it's something she knows is going to even further stretch what little
time we have available for 'more' projects but very rarely (if ever)
tells me I *can't* do something (and me likewise to her).

No one in that situation ever gets to tell the other that they arent
allowed to do something, or even that it isnt physically possible either.

So, today she's gone out to meet up with some mates and I'll be doing
my own thing and whilst we probably won't be thinking of each other
during the day, we will be happier when we meet up again, even if we
are just sharing the std everyday things.

Because of all the above (and more weg[1]) is why I really hope I go
first as I really don't know what life would be like without her.

Cheers, T i m

[1] It's good to get your heart pumping a few times a week eh. ;-)