I am making a set of fingers for my 24" DiAcro fingerbrake, out of
1.25" hotrolled steel plates, and decided to square the roughly
bandsawed blocks, on the shaper. Being hot rolled..there is a thick
scale skin and its rough on endmills and fly cutters. Plus the blocks
may have been flame cut from a larger plate at the mill..the edges
seem to have a faint flame cut edge..so there is a HAZ that needs to
be gotten through. Ive got face mills..but the big Gorton has no power
feed..and I hate face milling by hand on stuff thats gonna need a
heavy cut

Id tried a slab mill on my Clausing 8540..but for some reason..the
table is rocking and I cant see exactly where..sigh..another Roundtuit
to address....

With the vise..the 8" shaper is NOT capable of squaring a 6" block, so
I pulled the support rail out from under the table and lowered the
table down, using a thinner support rail to give me the smidge of room
I needed.

I set the stroke, travel etc..and let it run a couple cycles to check
out everything. All a-ok

So I set the feed per stroke on the dovetailed gizmo on the end of the
crank and let her run.

It was making a nice cut..and suddenly the link that goes between the
feed dog mechanism on the feed worm and the dovetailed gizmo bent
slightly and the rachet mechanism dropped below 2 Oclock..the link not
being long enough.Before I could shut it off..it busted out one side
of the dovetailed gizmo on the end of the crank. PLINK!!!

The part apparently is cast iron. So I have two options...drill and
tap, or drill and dowel pin and then braze, or make a new dovetailed
gizmo from scratch. I do have the proper sized dovetail cutter (and if
I were any good..Id use the shaper itself to cut the
dovetail....shrug)

What should I do? Try to pin and weld the old part, or make a new one?
Buying one from Logan..is financially out of the question for me at
this time.

Should I hunt around for a proper piece of cast iron, or should I use
nitrated silly putty for the new part? Im fresh out of unobtainium
and the last time I did lanthanated titanium..the lathe caught fire.

Second time in a year where I wished I had a bigger shaper..damnit

There is a pretty nice Gemco 16" I might be able to get...hydraulic I
think..but then..Id have to move the Rolls Royce out of the shop to
make room.

Sigh..what to do..what to do.....

G

Gunner, who is negotiating for a Albine miller



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
Buying one from Logan..is financially out of the question for me at
this time.

Not sure who would have the cash to buy from the dealer, I know when I
called sheldon to get a price on a fibre gear (yes fibre not even steel)
they wanted $285 for one gear.

I vote for just making a new part out of whatever steel you have on hand.
Should be way stronger than cast. If the cast part broke because of pressure
of running, the patch will be weaker and it will just break again.

May be easier to just get another shaper. Its the one machine they give away
if you want a large one.

Karl

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 07:24:03 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

I am making a set of fingers for my 24" DiAcro fingerbrake, out of
1.25" hotrolled steel plates, and decided to square the roughly
bandsawed blocks, on the shaper. Being hot rolled..there is a thick
scale skin and its rough on endmills and fly cutters. Plus the blocks
may have been flame cut from a larger plate at the mill..the edges
seem to have a faint flame cut edge..so there is a HAZ that needs to
be gotten through. Ive got face mills..but the big Gorton has no power
feed..and I hate face milling by hand on stuff thats gonna need a
heavy cut

Id tried a slab mill on my Clausing 8540..but for some reason..the
table is rocking and I cant see exactly where..sigh..another Roundtuit
to address....

With the vise..the 8" shaper is NOT capable of squaring a 6" block, so
I pulled the support rail out from under the table and lowered the
table down, using a thinner support rail to give me the smidge of room
I needed.

I set the stroke, travel etc..and let it run a couple cycles to check
out everything. All a-ok

So I set the feed per stroke on the dovetailed gizmo on the end of the
crank and let her run.

It was making a nice cut..and suddenly the link that goes between the
feed dog mechanism on the feed worm and the dovetailed gizmo bent
slightly and the rachet mechanism dropped below 2 Oclock..the link not
being long enough.Before I could shut it off..it busted out one side
of the dovetailed gizmo on the end of the crank. PLINK!!!

The part apparently is cast iron. So I have two options...drill and
tap, or drill and dowel pin and then braze, or make a new dovetailed
gizmo from scratch. I do have the proper sized dovetail cutter (and if
I were any good..Id use the shaper itself to cut the
dovetail....shrug)

What should I do? Try to pin and weld the old part, or make a new one?
Buying one from Logan..is financially out of the question for me at
this time.

Should I hunt around for a proper piece of cast iron, or should I use
nitrated silly putty for the new part? Im fresh out of unobtainium
and the last time I did lanthanated titanium..the lathe caught fire.

Second time in a year where I wished I had a bigger shaper..damnit

There is a pretty nice Gemco 16" I might be able to get...hydraulic I
think..but then..Id have to move the Rolls Royce out of the shop to
make room.

Sigh..what to do..what to do.....

G

Gunner, who is negotiating for a Albine miller



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

Want to borrow mine? Doesn't look too hard to make except the tapered
pin hole and the inside radius. I'm not using mine anyhow and won't
sell it without fixing the ratchet end that is my problem.

Looks like you would need an extended arm to prevent that from
happening again with the table all the way down. I take it that you
sold that cool bigger shaper.

Maybe you could make me the pin, and holder for the ratchet housing
that my cluts friend lost for me. They are small parts that I don't
have a sample to copy. Don't let other people clean your shop for you
and not check the pile for parts that you don't know are missing.

I'd buy new hardened ones, but I don't think Scott has them. Would my
dove tail gizmo fit your machine without modifying?

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:26:13 GMT, "Karl Townsend"
remove .NOT wrote:

I vote for just making a new part out of whatever steel you have on hand.
Should be way stronger than cast. If the cast part broke because of pressure
of running, the patch will be weaker and it will just break again.

May be easier to just get another shaper. Its the one machine they give away
if you want a large one.

Karl

Hey!! I like the way you think!!

Hummm ..there has become a space issue though....

Gunner



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 09:26:36 -0800, Sunworshipper
wrote:


Maybe you could make me the pin, and holder for the ratchet housing
that my cluts friend lost for me. They are small parts that I don't
have a sample to copy. Don't let other people clean your shop for you
and not check the pile for parts that you don't know are missing.

Thanks for the offer. Ill see about making you the parts for yours
when I finish making the stuff for mine.

I had a few pounds of hydroflorinated plasma putty and the hardner..so
Im machining the new assembly at the moment. Well..I finished the
gizmo last night..but the dovetail cutter I had was .05 wider than the
original..so now I need to make a new gizgut to go into the dovetail.
Fortunately..I do have a 45 degree cutter for the horizontal
miller..so it will only take a short time to whip one out.

But thanks

Gunner



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 07:24:03 GMT, Gunner wrote:

What should I do? Try to pin and weld the old part, or make a new one?

If the metallurgy isn't such that it needs to be cast, why not make it
out of something a few hundred years newer, technologically?

Buying one from Logan..is financially out of the question for me at
this time.

If anyone but you posted this, I'd refer them to you.

Sigh..what to do..what to do.....

Dust off & nuke 'em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 07:24:03 GMT, Gunner wrote:

snip tale of woe

What should I do? Try to pin and weld the old part, or make a new one?
Buying one from Logan..is financially out of the question for me at
this time.


I assume that you've worked your way 'round the problem by now anyway, but ...
The first order of the day is to make the arm an inch or two longer so that
the problem doesn't happen again. The second part could well be pinning and
krazy gluing the broken bits together because they should only see a couple of
pounds of force normally. Thereafter I would be looking for a bit of
continuously cast iron bar to make an exact replacement from Just because _I_
like machining cast iron :-)


Mark Rand (part way through a weld repair of the feed gears for my 10" Royal
shaper for the last two years :- http://www.test-net.com/DSCN4816.JPG)

RTFM

Gunner wrote:

Thinking of getting an Albuine miller.

Gunner, you mean a Swiss Abene miller? I had an old one years ago with
40 taper spindle. Fancy Van Norman style rotating head machine with
ample hp for most average jobs.
Interesting thing about mine was that when the head was set at vertical
it wouldn't the arm wouldn't slide far enough forward enough to center
over or beyond the centerline of the knee. This impinged a bit on area
which could be surfaced if you follow my drift.
Otherwise a wonderful machine and the simplicity of the geneva gear
dial for changing table/knee feeds is a marvel.
Very unique design and one everyone who appreciates the unusual in
machine tool design should ponder.
Gemco shapers are hydraulic?
all the best!
Honest Al Babin
Bristol, Conn. USA

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 00:28:29 +0100, Mark Rand
wrote:

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 07:24:03 GMT, Gunner wrote:

snip tale of woe

What should I do? Try to pin and weld the old part, or make a new one?
Buying one from Logan..is financially out of the question for me at
this time.


I assume that you've worked your way 'round the problem by now anyway, but ...
The first order of the day is to make the arm an inch or two longer so that
the problem doesn't happen again. The second part could well be pinning and
krazy gluing the broken bits together because they should only see a couple of
pounds of force normally. Thereafter I would be looking for a bit of
continuously cast iron bar to make an exact replacement from Just because _I_
like machining cast iron :-)


Mark Rand (part way through a weld repair of the feed gears for my 10" Royal
shaper for the last two years :- http://www.test-net.com/DSCN4816.JPG)

RTFM

I had a quart of hydroflorinated silly putty I kept tripping over..so
formed a big ball of it, let it cure and then hacked it into shape
with an axe. Works pretty good. And I made an extension for the arm
if I ever need to drop the table all the way down again.Tounge
Depressors..that makes a great extension......

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/shaperFix.jpg

Gunner



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

On 27 Mar 2006 19:23:42 -0800, "Honest A Babin"
wrote:


Gunner wrote:

Thinking of getting an Albuine miller.

Gunner, you mean a Swiss Abene miller? I had an old one years ago with
40 taper spindle. Fancy Van Norman style rotating head machine with
ample hp for most average jobs.
Interesting thing about mine was that when the head was set at vertical
it wouldn't the arm wouldn't slide far enough forward enough to center
over or beyond the centerline of the knee. This impinged a bit on area
which could be surfaced if you follow my drift.
Otherwise a wonderful machine and the simplicity of the geneva gear
dial for changing table/knee feeds is a marvel.
Very unique design and one everyone who appreciates the unusual in
machine tool design should ponder.
Gemco shapers are hydraulic?
all the best!
Honest Al Babin
Bristol, Conn. USA

Ayup..but I believe the Albene is Swedish..I could be wrong. I think
Wayne Cook also has one.

I have a customer that has a shop you can eat from the floor..and I
already asked about the minty minty minty Hardinge UM..and he says he
is taking it home for himself..the ******* G

They are spending some serious money loading up on CNC turning and
milling centers.upgrading and streamlining..and with luck..the Albene
will be "downsized"

Gunner



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 00:28:29 +0100, Mark Rand
wrote:

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 07:24:03 GMT, Gunner wrote:

snip tale of woe

What should I do? Try to pin and weld the old part, or make a new one?
Buying one from Logan..is financially out of the question for me at
this time.


I assume that you've worked your way 'round the problem by now anyway, but ...
The first order of the day is to make the arm an inch or two longer so that
the problem doesn't happen again. The second part could well be pinning and
krazy gluing the broken bits together because they should only see a couple of
pounds of force normally. Thereafter I would be looking for a bit of
continuously cast iron bar to make an exact replacement from Just because _I_
like machining cast iron :-)


Mark Rand (part way through a weld repair of the feed gears for my 10" Royal
shaper for the last two years :- http://www.test-net.com/DSCN4816.JPG)

RTFM

I had a quart of hydroflorinated silly putty I kept tripping over..so
formed a big ball of it, let it cure and then hacked it into shape
with an axe. Works pretty good. And I made an extension for the arm
if I ever need to drop the table all the way down again.Tounge
Depressors..that makes a great extension......

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/shaperFix.jpg

Gunner



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3
It didn't make it gunner - did you forget the mandatory text file???
Ken.

Ken Sterling (Ken Sterling) wrote:
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 00:28:29 +0100, Mark Rand
wrote:

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 07:24:03 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

snip tale of woe

What should I do? Try to pin and weld the old part, or make a new
one? Buying one from Logan..is financially out of the question for
me at
this time.


I assume that you've worked your way 'round the problem by now
anyway, but ... The first order of the day is to make the arm an
inch or two longer so that the problem doesn't happen again. The
second part could well be pinning and krazy gluing the broken bits
together because they should only see a couple of pounds of force
normally. Thereafter I would be looking for a bit of continuously
cast iron bar to make an exact replacement from Just because _I_
like machining cast iron :-)


Mark Rand (part way through a weld repair of the feed gears for my
10" Royal shaper for the last two years :-
http://www.test-net.com/DSCN4816.JPG)

RTFM

I had a quart of hydroflorinated silly putty I kept tripping
over..so
formed a big ball of it, let it cure and then hacked it into shape
with an axe. Works pretty good. And I made an extension for the arm
if I ever need to drop the table all the way down again.Tounge
Depressors..that makes a great extension......

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/shaperFix.jpg

Gunner



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3
It didn't make it gunner - did you forget the mandatory text file???
Ken.

I got it OK.

Ken (the other one)

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 07:24:03 GMT, Gunner
wrote:


So I set the feed per stroke on the dovetailed gizmo on the end of the
crank and let her run.

It was making a nice cut..and suddenly the link that goes between the
feed dog mechanism on the feed worm and the dovetailed gizmo bent
slightly and the rachet mechanism dropped below 2 Oclock..the link not
being long enough.Before I could shut it off..it busted out one side
of the dovetailed gizmo on the end of the crank. PLINK!!!

The part apparently is cast iron. So I have two options...drill and
tap, or drill and dowel pin and then braze, or make a new dovetailed

Gunner
having now seen the photo I can suggest a good repair strategy.
keep the broken off part as a souvenir to palm around as you tell the
tale. :-)
on the main piece machine the broken face away so that you have a D
shaped end.
looking at it in profile would be something like this (forgive the
ascii art)

[------------/
[ /
[ /___________________
[ ]
[ ]
[ ] ------cut or
plane off face here that would originally have been the other dovetail
cheek.

make another dovetail cheek and position it in place with a double row
of socket head cap screws.
seems a fairly easy repair to me which would give you an adjustable
dovetail.(not that you'd need one there)

Stealth Pilot

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 07:56:48 GMT, Gunner
wrote:



Ayup..but I believe the Albene is Swedish..I could be wrong. I think
Wayne Cook also has one.

Yep. BTW the header has it right. It's Abene and it is from Sweden.

I have a customer that has a shop you can eat from the floor..and I
already asked about the minty minty minty Hardinge UM..and he says he
is taking it home for himself..the ******* G

They are spending some serious money loading up on CNC turning and
milling centers.upgrading and streamlining..and with luck..the Albene
will be "downsized"


I think you'll like it if you get it.

What are you guys expecting, accurate information from Al Babin?
Of course the machine is Swedish!
Honest Al

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:00:42 -0600, Wayne Cook
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 07:56:48 GMT, Gunner
wrote:



Ayup..but I believe the Albene is Swedish..I could be wrong. I think
Wayne Cook also has one.

Yep. BTW the header has it right. It's Abene and it is from Sweden.

I have a customer that has a shop you can eat from the floor..and I
already asked about the minty minty minty Hardinge UM..and he says he
is taking it home for himself..the ******* G

They are spending some serious money loading up on CNC turning and
milling centers.upgrading and streamlining..and with luck..the Albene
will be "downsized"


I think you'll like it if you get it.


Anything to watch out for?

The little Clausing 8540 I have is a nice horizontal miller..but..its
not stout enough for a lot of the work I do..making blue chips is
easy..but they are pretty small blue chips. Shrug..

Ive got a K&T #2 and a ..hummm Vernon (biggest one Ive seen) available
from one of my clients for $500 each...likely able to trade for one of
them...but the Abene is such an odd looking and exquisitly wierd
beasty that its tickled my fancy for a long time. and I think the
Abene has a slightly smaller foot print than the #2 and frankly...Im
running out of shop space.

Something I thought Id never do. Hell....10 yrs ago..my idea of
machinining something was chucking it in a drill motor, holding it
between my knees and hitting it with a file while it was turning.

Odd how things turn out huh? Odd how much a motivated scrounger can
aquire once he gets a new jones/hobby....

Gunner



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:33:37 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:00:42 -0600, Wayne Cook
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 07:56:48 GMT, Gunner
wrote:



Ayup..but I believe the Albene is Swedish..I could be wrong. I think
Wayne Cook also has one.

Yep. BTW the header has it right. It's Abene and it is from Sweden.

I have a customer that has a shop you can eat from the floor..and I
already asked about the minty minty minty Hardinge UM..and he says he
is taking it home for himself..the ******* G

They are spending some serious money loading up on CNC turning and
milling centers.upgrading and streamlining..and with luck..the Albene
will be "downsized"


I think you'll like it if you get it.


Anything to watch out for?

Not really. It would be a good idea to make sure of the overarm and
arbor since they're a little strange. But you know how to work around
that.

The little Clausing 8540 I have is a nice horizontal miller..but..its
not stout enough for a lot of the work I do..making blue chips is
easy..but they are pretty small blue chips. Shrug..

I think you've seen the chips I've thrown with my Abene. It really
liked the 1 1/4" insert mill for hogging. It did not like the 1 1/2" 4
flute insert mill though (chatter).

Ive got a K&T #2 and a ..hummm Vernon (biggest one Ive seen) available
from one of my clients for $500 each...likely able to trade for one of
them...but the Abene is such an odd looking and exquisitly wierd
beasty that its tickled my fancy for a long time. and I think the
Abene has a slightly smaller foot print than the #2 and frankly...Im
running out of shop space.

Well I've not run a K&T #2 but I have run a #3 Cinci and it was just
to big and unwieldy for most of my work. I've not missed access to it
very many times since leaving my former employer. The Abene is just a
nice size. It's big enough to get some real work done but small enough
you don't have to kill yourself doing it. The versatility is just
icing on the cake.

Something I thought Id never do. Hell....10 yrs ago..my idea of
machinining something was chucking it in a drill motor, holding it
between my knees and hitting it with a file while it was turning.

Oh my kingdom for a warehouse. :-)

Odd how things turn out huh? Odd how much a motivated scrounger can
aquire once he gets a new jones/hobby....

Yep. It does seem to breed once you get more than one. :-)

What is hydroflorinated silly putty? I've never
heard of it.

Tom

On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:29:13 +1100, "Tom Miller"
wrote:

What is hydroflorinated silly putty? I've never
heard of it.

Tom

Its used for hypergolic seals on fesko tanks.

Gunner



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:29:13 +1100, "Tom Miller"
wrote:

What is hydroflorinated silly putty? I've never
heard of it.

Tom

Its used for hypergolic seals on fesko tanks.

Gunner

Gunner, are you pulling my chain?
Tom

In article ,
"Tom Miller" wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:29:13 +1100, "Tom Miller"
wrote:

What is hydroflorinated silly putty? I've never
heard of it.

Tom

Its used for hypergolic seals on fesko tanks.

Yep, and those self-igniting seals are rare and expensive, especially
the ones for Fesko tanks! Those Feskos are a wild and warlike bunch.
Hence the tanks.


Gunner

Gunner, are you pulling my chain?

Gunner pull someone's's chain? Nah! Never happen.

Tom

BTW, Gunner: I'm up to three now. Dad left me his race gun. Still
angling for the priesthood.

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 00:02:47 +1100, "Tom Miller"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:29:13 +1100, "Tom Miller"
wrote:

What is hydroflorinated silly putty? I've never
heard of it.

Tom

Its used for hypergolic seals on fesko tanks.

Gunner

Gunner, are you pulling my chain?
Tom

Moi? You know that I tend to scrounge wierd, odd and unusual stuff.

Gunner



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 13:33:38 GMT, John Husvar
wrote:

In article ,
"Tom Miller" wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:29:13 +1100, "Tom Miller"
wrote:

What is hydroflorinated silly putty? I've never
heard of it.

Tom

Its used for hypergolic seals on fesko tanks.

Yep, and those self-igniting seals are rare and expensive, especially
the ones for Fesko tanks! Those Feskos are a wild and warlike bunch.
Hence the tanks.

No no..not those Feskos. They are in the Balkans

he Fesco tanks this stuff is used for are for heat treating objects
made of Nerf.


Gunner

Gunner, are you pulling my chain?

Gunner pull someone's's chain? Nah! Never happen.

Tom

BTW, Gunner: I'm up to three now. Dad left me his race gun. Still
angling for the priesthood.


Cool! Sounds lke you are ready for your own congregation.

Ok! by the powers vested in me by the State of California, the Lethal
Force Institute and Jeff Cooper, I dub thee Father John, Priest in the
Church of John Moses Browning.

Now let us bow our heads and repeat the Holy Color Codes...

Gunner
,


"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:14:18 GMT, Gunner wrote:
On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:29:13 +1100, "Tom Miller"
wrote:

What is hydroflorinated silly putty? I've never
heard of it.

Its used for hypergolic seals on fesko tanks.

Also for knuten valves in automotive and aircraft applications.

On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:44:30 GMT, Gunner wrote:
On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 13:33:38 GMT, John Husvar
wrote:

BTW, Gunner: I'm up to three now. Dad left me his race gun. Still
angling for the priesthood.

Cool! Sounds lke you are ready for your own congregation.

Ok! by the powers vested in me by the State of California, the Lethal
Force Institute and Jeff Cooper, I dub thee Father John, Priest in the
Church of John Moses Browning.

Pardon, oh Bishop (Archbishop?), but what are the entrance requirements
for said office, please? I believe you've seen images of my
credentials, if not I'd be happy to mail the URL to you.
Of Mr. Browning's work, I have quite a few specimens, more if you count
derived designs by others. I think the only thing I have more of is
that of the Mausers, if you include derived works. I think.

In article ,
Gunner wrote:


Ok! by the powers vested in me by the State of California, the Lethal
Force Institute and Jeff Cooper, I dub thee Father John, Priest in the
Church of John Moses Browning.

Now let us bow our heads and repeat the Holy Color Codes...

In nomine pistolus, revolverus, et benedicat M1911, Amen.

White, Yellow, Orange, and Red!
Get it right and you don't get dead!

YaaaaAAAYY, Jeff!

Oops, sorry, that's the Practical Pistol Team cheer.

Fr. John, Pastor, Akron OH Congregation, CJMB.

Acting Headmaster of the CJMB Elementary School and Shooting Club. (None
of _our_ kids get molested: They all have CCW -- It's a graduation
requirement.)

On 29 Mar 2006 20:55:13 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:44:30 GMT, Gunner wrote:
On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 13:33:38 GMT, John Husvar
wrote:

BTW, Gunner: I'm up to three now. Dad left me his race gun. Still
angling for the priesthood.

Cool! Sounds lke you are ready for your own congregation.

Ok! by the powers vested in me by the State of California, the Lethal
Force Institute and Jeff Cooper, I dub thee Father John, Priest in the
Church of John Moses Browning.

Pardon, oh Bishop (Archbishop?), but what are the entrance requirements
for said office, please? I believe you've seen images of my
credentials, if not I'd be happy to mail the URL to you.
Of Mr. Browning's work, I have quite a few specimens, more if you count
derived designs by others. I think the only thing I have more of is
that of the Mausers, if you include derived works. I think.

At least 3 1911s or clones, or a Ma Duce, (a Ma Duce beats any number
of 1911s/clones)

Id have to do a work up on your qualifications, reasons you desire
to join the Priesthood and last qual scores.

Please submit them with a 2 liter bottle of Diet Mt. Dew and a cat
toy..and Ill start the paper work.

Gunner, Bishop in the Church of John Moses Browning




"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 00:48:26 GMT, John Husvar
wrote:

In article ,
Gunner wrote:


Ok! by the powers vested in me by the State of California, the Lethal
Force Institute and Jeff Cooper, I dub thee Father John, Priest in the
Church of John Moses Browning.

Now let us bow our heads and repeat the Holy Color Codes...

In nomine pistolus, revolverus, et benedicat M1911, Amen.

White, Yellow, Orange, and Red!
Get it right and you don't get dead!

YaaaaAAAYY, Jeff!

Oops, sorry, that's the Practical Pistol Team cheer.

Fr. John, Pastor, Akron OH Congregation, CJMB.

Acting Headmaster of the CJMB Elementary School and Shooting Club. (None
of _our_ kids get molested: They all have CCW -- It's a graduation
requirement.)

Indeed. If you would like..Ill grant dispensation so you can induct
Dave Heinz into the Holy Order.

Gunner, Bishop of the Church of John Moses Browning


"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:54:14 GMT, Gunner wrote:
On 29 Mar 2006 20:55:13 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

Pardon, oh Bishop (Archbishop?), but what are the entrance requirements
for said office, please?

At least 3 1911s or clones, or a Ma Duce, (a Ma Duce beats any number
of 1911s/clones)

You've got mail. I think you want specifically to look at the sixth
image, although they're all interesting in their own regard. Click on
the images to see details.

Id have to do a work up on your qualifications, reasons you desire
to join the Priesthood and last qual scores.

Does that need to be an NRA-sanctioned event, or can I go out in the
back yard and do some 25 yard work?

Please submit them with a 2 liter bottle of Diet Mt. Dew and a cat
toy..and Ill start the paper work.

But...a 2 liter bottle of Mt. Dew _is_ a cat toy. I'm all confuzzled.

Gunner, Bishop in the Church of John Moses Browning

So is that saturdays, or sundays then?

On 30 Mar 2006 13:03:02 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:54:14 GMT, Gunner wrote:
On 29 Mar 2006 20:55:13 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

Pardon, oh Bishop (Archbishop?), but what are the entrance requirements
for said office, please?

At least 3 1911s or clones, or a Ma Duce, (a Ma Duce beats any number
of 1911s/clones)

You've got mail. I think you want specifically to look at the sixth
image, although they're all interesting in their own regard. Click on
the images to see details.

Id have to do a work up on your qualifications, reasons you desire
to join the Priesthood and last qual scores.

Does that need to be an NRA-sanctioned event, or can I go out in the
back yard and do some 25 yard work?

Please submit them with a 2 liter bottle of Diet Mt. Dew and a cat
toy..and Ill start the paper work.

But...a 2 liter bottle of Mt. Dew _is_ a cat toy. I'm all confuzzled.

Gunner, Bishop in the Church of John Moses Browning

So is that saturdays, or sundays then?


I think Dave is more than qualified...chuckle...he has almost as many
as I do.

The Cap from a bottle of Dew..is a cat toy..the bottle itself is a dog
toy..particularly with some pebbles in it and squeezed so its about
half flat. and the cap put back on. Assuming you can find the cap
after the cat ran off with it...

Backyard work is fine, as long as it was witnessed by an impartial
witness. A cat will be perfect..simply have him/her leave paw print.


"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:37:07 GMT, Gunner wrote:
On 30 Mar 2006 13:03:02 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

You've got mail. I think you want specifically to look at the sixth
image, although they're all interesting in their own regard. Click on
the images to see details.

Does that need to be an NRA-sanctioned event, or can I go out in the
back yard and do some 25 yard work?

I think Dave is more than qualified...chuckle...he has almost as many
as I do.

Almost? Damn... So did you spot all 8 of JMB's designs then?

The Cap from a bottle of Dew..is a cat toy..the bottle itself is a dog
toy..particularly with some pebbles in it and squeezed so its about
half flat. and the cap put back on. Assuming you can find the cap
after the cat ran off with it...

They love the bottlecaps, don't they. Have to try the thing with the
pebbles, thanks.

Backyard work is fine, as long as it was witnessed by an impartial
witness. A cat will be perfect..simply have him/her leave paw print.

How about the boy? He loves watching daddy shoot, but so far it's only
from inside the house through the window (the watching, not the
shooting). He's 18 months so a pawprint will have to suffice there as
well. My daughter (7 years) is a damn good shot, probably start her on
a .22 or one of the carbines this year.

On 30 Mar 2006 19:26:04 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:37:07 GMT, Gunner wrote:
On 30 Mar 2006 13:03:02 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

You've got mail. I think you want specifically to look at the sixth
image, although they're all interesting in their own regard. Click on
the images to see details.

Does that need to be an NRA-sanctioned event, or can I go out in the
back yard and do some 25 yard work?

I think Dave is more than qualified...chuckle...he has almost as many
as I do.

Almost? Damn... So did you spot all 8 of JMB's designs then?

Ayup..almost. You are within 10 or so. You do have more handguns than
I...but I do live in California..not to mention having to sell a few
during my own Y2K in 2000..more by about 8-10 or so. But Im heavier in
bolt guns and shot guns. We are about even in self loaders. I had to
sell the Lunjman and the Garands in 2000 and havent been able to
replace them.

The Cap from a bottle of Dew..is a cat toy..the bottle itself is a dog
toy..particularly with some pebbles in it and squeezed so its about
half flat. and the cap put back on. Assuming you can find the cap
after the cat ran off with it...

They love the bottlecaps, don't they. Have to try the thing with the
pebbles, thanks.

Dogs seen to love the sound.

Backyard work is fine, as long as it was witnessed by an impartial
witness. A cat will be perfect..simply have him/her leave paw print.

How about the boy? He loves watching daddy shoot, but so far it's only
from inside the house through the window (the watching, not the
shooting). He's 18 months so a pawprint will have to suffice there as
well. My daughter (7 years) is a damn good shot, probably start her on
a .22 or one of the carbines this year.


Ok..Ill allow the kid.but only his foot print. Just to make sure he
isnt like his old man. 7 toes may run in the family

G

Gunner



"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

In article ,
Gunner wrote:



Indeed. If you would like..Ill grant dispensation so you can induct
Dave Heinz into the Holy Order.

Gunner, Bishop of the Church of John Moses Browning


After due solemn and worshipful consideration, (about 250 rounds with a
six-pack after) I am pleased to welcome Dave Hinz into the holy
priesthood of the Church of John Moses Browning.

Ipse dixit, pro patria mori, e pluribus unum, rara avis, hoc non
pecuniam legitimus est, et Illegitimii non carborundum, Amen!

May you ever shoot straight and your weapons never stovepipe.

Hail, Fr. Dave!

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:02:47 GMT, Gunner wrote:
On 30 Mar 2006 19:26:04 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

Almost? Damn... So did you spot all 8 of JMB's designs then?

Ayup..almost. You are within 10 or so. You do have more handguns than
I...but I do live in California..not to mention having to sell a few
during my own Y2K in 2000..more by about 8-10 or so. But Im heavier in
bolt guns and shot guns.

Those, my dad collects. So eventually, ...

We are about even in self loaders. I had to
sell the Lunjman and the Garands in 2000 and havent been able to
replace them.

Ouch. That hurts, rather a lot. The ljungman has really gone up in
value lately; I like the contrast between that and the Hakim; amazing
the difference in workmanship. As you can see I have things arranged in
a fairly coherent context, design-wise.

They love the bottlecaps, don't they. Have to try the thing with the
pebbles, thanks.

Dogs seen to love the sound.

We'll see. Our dog is only marginally more intelligent than a plastic
bottle with pebbles in it in the first place, so it may have no effect
at all.

How about the boy? He loves watching daddy shoot, but so far it's only
from inside the house through the window (the watching, not the
shooting). He's 18 months so a pawprint will have to suffice there as
well. My daughter (7 years) is a damn good shot, probably start her on
a .22 or one of the carbines this year.

Ok..Ill allow the kid.but only his foot print. Just to make sure he
isnt like his old man. 7 toes may run in the family

Heh...makes finding workboots a right pain as well.

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:49:17 GMT, John Husvar wrote:
In article ,
Gunner wrote:

Indeed. If you would like..Ill grant dispensation so you can induct
Dave Heinz into the Holy Order.
Gunner, Bishop of the Church of John Moses Browning

After due solemn and worshipful consideration, (about 250 rounds with a
six-pack after) I am pleased to welcome Dave Hinz into the holy
priesthood of the Church of John Moses Browning.

Excellent, thank you your eminancies. I'll run through a few magazines
this evening. (John, you've got mail; I'm not sure if you've seen these
before).

Ipse dixit, pro patria mori, e pluribus unum, rara avis, hoc non
pecuniam legitimus est, et Illegitimii non carborundum, Amen!

Quidquid latine dictum, altum videtur. Or, my favorite, Catapultam
habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabris, ad caput tuum saxum immane
mittam.

May you ever shoot straight and your weapons never stovepipe.

May your brass not be eaten by the brass-snake.

Hail, Fr. Dave!

And well met, Fr. John.

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:49:17 GMT, John Husvar
wrote:

In article ,
Gunner wrote:



Indeed. If you would like..Ill grant dispensation so you can induct
Dave Heinz into the Holy Order.

Gunner, Bishop of the Church of John Moses Browning


After due solemn and worshipful consideration, (about 250 rounds with a
six-pack after) I am pleased to welcome Dave Hinz into the holy
priesthood of the Church of John Moses Browning.

Ipse dixit, pro patria mori, e pluribus unum, rara avis, hoc non
pecuniam legitimus est, et Illegitimii non carborundum, Amen!

May you ever shoot straight and your weapons never stovepipe.

Hail, Fr. Dave!

Amen!

Gunner, Bishop in the Church of John Moses Browning

Anyone got any skills with document making? We need to come up with a
downloadable Divinity certification....


"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

In article ,
Dave Hinz wrote:

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:49:17 GMT, John Husvar wrote:
In article ,
Gunner wrote:

Indeed. If you would like..Ill grant dispensation so you can induct
Dave Heinz into the Holy Order.
Gunner, Bishop of the Church of John Moses Browning

After due solemn and worshipful consideration, (about 250 rounds with a
six-pack after) I am pleased to welcome Dave Hinz into the holy
priesthood of the Church of John Moses Browning.

Excellent, thank you your eminancies. I'll run through a few magazines
this evening. (John, you've got mail; I'm not sure if you've seen these
before).

Got mail? Ain't that the Truth! Gunner, this guy deserves at least
Monsignor!

If he has ammo for all of them at hand, maybe even higher. This fella's
on track for the Red Hat and I don't mean Linux.


Ipse dixit, pro patria mori, e pluribus unum, rara avis, hoc non
pecuniam legitimus est, et Illegitimii non carborundum, Amen!

Quidquid latine dictum, altum videtur. Or, my favorite, Catapultam
habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabris, ad caput tuum saxum immane
mittam.

May you ever shoot straight and your weapons never stovepipe.

May your brass not be eaten by the brass-snake.

Hail, Fr. Dave!

And well met, Fr. John.

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 23:44:19 GMT, John Husvar wrote:

Got mail? Ain't that the Truth! Gunner, this guy deserves at least
Monsignor!

If he has ammo for all of them at hand, maybe even higher.

All? (thinks) I don't have anything for the Danish rolling block (where
the heck can I buy 11.7x51R anyway?) and I'd have to see if 8mm Danish
is equivalent to anything.
I also don't have any .38 S&W, oh wait, I do.
Ah. .32 rimfire. Out and don't see any point in getting any.
My .50-70 cases are currently empty but I have all the components...

Maybe time to track down Old Western Scrounger again. Or, now that my
comfort and skill on the lathe has improved to "so-so", I could try
making some empties. Hmmm... (that was for Tony, actually)

This fella's
on track for the Red Hat and I don't mean Linux.

The linux server is in the side of the room not pictured, next to the
~500 board feet of black walnut. They all like similar environmental
conditions, and this room was the only place big enough for the lumber,
so there ya go.

On 1 Apr 2006 16:04:43 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 23:44:19 GMT, John Husvar wrote:

Got mail? Ain't that the Truth! Gunner, this guy deserves at least
Monsignor!

If he has ammo for all of them at hand, maybe even higher.

All? (thinks) I don't have anything for the Danish rolling block (where
the heck can I buy 11.7x51R anyway?) and I'd have to see if 8mm Danish
is equivalent to anything.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,5314.html

8mm X 54mm Krag-Jorgensen


I also don't have any .38 S&W, oh wait, I do.
Ah. .32 rimfire. Out and don't see any point in getting any.

PMC was loading it in 2005. Well...depends on which 32 Rimfire you are
needing..short, long, Walnut Hill...

www.nioa.net.au/uploads/pmc_r_040106.pdf

My .50-70 cases are currently empty but I have all the components...

I had to sell mine in 2000. Dies and mould too. Ever price the dies
from Huntington? I think I paid more for the dies than I did the
rifle.

Maybe time to track down Old Western Scrounger again. Or, now that my
comfort and skill on the lathe has improved to "so-so", I could try
making some empties. Hmmm... (that was for Tony, actually)

Ive many quite a number of cases over the years. Its actually fairly
simple to do. Need any 5.75 Velo Dog? G
Getting good virgin cartridge brass is the hardest part.
COurse..having cnc helps remendously. VBG
Ive got the ANSI dimensions book someplace around here.

This is also quite nice...

http://www.loadammo.com/product.htm

Click on cartridge cases. They have over 650 different cartridge
dimensions


This fella's
on track for the Red Hat and I don't mean Linux.

The linux server is in the side of the room not pictured, next to the
~500 board feet of black walnut. They all like similar environmental
conditions, and this room was the only place big enough for the lumber,
so there ya go.




"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3