I bought tires a couple of months ago. Yesterday I tried to remove a
wheel to check the bearing. The nuts wouldn't budge.

They're supposed to be torqued to about 65 foot-pounds. After letting
penetrating oil work overnight, I got 15 of the 16 nuts with a cruciform
wrench with 10" arms. I used a pipe to extend one arm and stood on the
other.

I believe I'm applying well over 200 foot-pounds. The wrench twists so
far that I think more force would be dangerous. I'll see what tools
neighbors have, or maybe go to a mechanic.

Can I have the dealer and his crew sent to prison?

On 9/24/14, 1:31 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 01:21:24 -0400, J Burns
wrote:

I bought tires a couple of months ago. Yesterday I tried to remove a
wheel to check the bearing. The nuts wouldn't budge.

They're supposed to be torqued to about 65 foot-pounds. After letting
penetrating oil work overnight, I got 15 of the 16 nuts with a cruciform
wrench with 10" arms. I used a pipe to extend one arm and stood on the
other.

I believe I'm applying well over 200 foot-pounds. The wrench twists so
far that I think more force would be dangerous. I'll see what tools
neighbors have, or maybe go to a mechanic.

Can I have the dealer and his crew sent to prison?

A 3/4" impact wrench will spin them off but you should be able to
crack them loose with a breaker bar and your pipe. Use a 6 point
socket.

I borrowed a 1/2" breaker bar and a 6-point thick-wall socket designed
for impact wrenches. I understand one advantage is that if you hammer
on the breaker bar, the socket will transmit shock to the wheel around
the nut. It seems to transmit the shock pretty well but hasn't worked
so far.

My BIL has a 3/4" set. I used to use it on farm equipment. That might
work.

Dadblamed tired dealer! I wonder if the lugs and nuts are permanently
damaged from the stress.

I believe I'm applying well over 200 foot-pounds.

It is a common problem. I've broken/ torn apart factory provided combo
jack handles/lug nut removal tools trying to remove lug nuts after tires
have been touched by service stations or dealerships.

Steve

"J Burns" wrote in message
...
I bought tires a couple of months ago. Yesterday I tried to remove a wheel
to check the bearing. The nuts wouldn't budge.

They're supposed to be torqued to about 65 foot-pounds. After letting
penetrating oil work overnight, I got 15 of the 16 nuts with a cruciform
wrench with 10" arms. I used a pipe to extend one arm and stood on the
other.

I believe I'm applying well over 200 foot-pounds. The wrench twists so
far that I think more force would be dangerous. I'll see what tools
neighbors have, or maybe go to a mechanic.

Can I have the dealer and his crew sent to prison?

Heat it with a small torch. Don't have to get it red hot, just enough to
cause some expansion.

On 9/24/2014 1:31 AM, wrote:
I believe I'm applying well over 200 foot-pounds. The wrench twists so
far that I think more force would be dangerous. I'll see what tools
neighbors have, or maybe go to a mechanic.

Can I have the dealer and his crew sent to prison?

A 3/4" impact wrench will spin them off but you should be able to
crack them loose with a breaker bar and your pipe. Use a 6 point
socket.

I second the motion, to have the last mechanic
sent to prison, or at least reeducation camp.

I've had some success with 25 inch breaker bar,
and black impact sockets.

No clue what it is with mechanics who think that
max tight is the only way to go.



..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 9/24/2014 1:52 AM, J Burns wrote:
I borrowed a 1/2" breaker bar and a 6-point thick-wall socket designed
for impact wrenches. I understand one advantage is that if you hammer
on the breaker bar, the socket will transmit shock to the wheel around
the nut. It seems to transmit the shock pretty well but hasn't worked
so far.

My BIL has a 3/4" set. I used to use it on farm equipment. That might
work.

Dadblamed tired dealer! I wonder if the lugs and nuts are permanently
damaged from the stress.

Wow, that must be tight. Are you pressing down on the wrench, to the
left of the lug? I find that works, compared to lifting up to the right.

On lug nuts. If the wheels are aluminum, the tire places
want to recheck the lugs after 25 to 50 miles. This is a
real concern. I did a rear wheel brake pad slap one time,
and figured they were fine. Two days later, I had a rather
serious shake. Took it to my garage, and he noted that
the right front tire was out of round. On the way to the
junkyard to get another tire, the left rear fell off.

Mechanic had not asked if I did anything to the wheels
lately "Well, replace brake pads in the back" and had
not pulled the snap caps to see if the lugs were tight.

I share the blame, I didn't recheck torque after 50 miles.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"J Burns" wrote in message ...

I bought tires a couple of months ago. Yesterday I tried to remove a
wheel to check the bearing. The nuts wouldn't budge.

They're supposed to be torqued to about 65 foot-pounds. After letting
penetrating oil work overnight, I got 15 of the 16 nuts with a cruciform
wrench with 10" arms. I used a pipe to extend one arm and stood on the
other.

I believe I'm applying well over 200 foot-pounds. The wrench twists so
far that I think more force would be dangerous. I'll see what tools
neighbors have, or maybe go to a mechanic.

Can I have the dealer and his crew sent to prison?

A few years ago a tire on my Toyota truck was losing air. When I tried (with
helpers) to remove the wheel, two of the six lugs snapped off and we
couldn't budge the other four. To make a long story short, I was later told
that Toyota (and I think Mazda) were notorious for using soft metal on their
lugs which could be easily cross-threaded and essentially welded to the nut.
So in addition to replacing the tire I had all 24 lugs replaced.

On 9/24/2014 1:52 AM, J Burns wrote:
I borrowed a 1/2" breaker bar and a 6-point thick-wall socket designed
for impact wrenches. I understand one advantage is that if you hammer
on the breaker bar, the socket will transmit shock to the wheel around
the nut. It seems to transmit the shock pretty well but hasn't worked
so far.


Years ago, someone mentioned the hot wax method. When a nut
and bolt is rotted on, the trick to heat it up with a torch.
Of course, mechanics the world around use heat. But the
trick is as it's cooling, light a candle and drip wax onto
the thread. At first, the wax disappears into vapor. But as
it cools, it gets to the magic temperature. The wax sucks
into the threads, and acts as a lubricant. Wax is slippery,
try rubbing a candle some time, to see for yourself.

I've not tried this, though I have wondered if there is
any truth to this. I'd really love to know if this
works or not. Please try it, just to humor an old man.

BTW, I did try soaking a totally rusted pair of fence
pliers in concentrated hydrochloric acid. It did eat
the rust off, and now I've got a working pair of pliers.
I never thought that would work.


..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Wednesday, September 24, 2014 7:48:05 AM UTC-4, snafu wrote:
"J Burns" wrote in message ...



I bought tires a couple of months ago. Yesterday I tried to remove a

wheel to check the bearing. The nuts wouldn't budge.



They're supposed to be torqued to about 65 foot-pounds. After letting

penetrating oil work overnight, I got 15 of the 16 nuts with a cruciform

wrench with 10" arms. I used a pipe to extend one arm and stood on the

other.



I believe I'm applying well over 200 foot-pounds. The wrench twists so

far that I think more force would be dangerous. I'll see what tools

neighbors have, or maybe go to a mechanic.



Can I have the dealer and his crew sent to prison?



A few years ago a tire on my Toyota truck was losing air. When I tried (with

helpers) to remove the wheel, two of the six lugs snapped off and we

couldn't budge the other four. To make a long story short, I was later told

that Toyota (and I think Mazda) were notorious for using soft metal on their

lugs which could be easily cross-threaded and essentially welded to the nut.

So in addition to replacing the tire I had all 24 lugs replaced.

A friend of mine had the lug bolts put on his car super tight by
a tire place too. He went back to complain. The manager came out
with a torque wrench, showed him what the wrench was set to, then
put it on one of the bolts, applied pressure until the wrench clicked.
Whereupon he said "See, that shows that they are torqued to the right
amount".

Which goes to show you, even the right eqpt is useless in the hands of
an idiot. Personally, I use an electric impact wrench and just do it
based on experience. Haven't had a problem yet.

On 9/24/2014 7:48 AM, snafu wrote:
A few years ago a tire on my Toyota truck was losing air. When I tried
(with helpers) to remove the wheel, two of the six lugs snapped off and
we couldn't budge the other four. To make a long story short, I was
later told that Toyota (and I think Mazda) were notorious for using soft
metal on their lugs which could be easily cross-threaded and essentially
welded to the nut. So in addition to replacing the tire I had all 24
lugs replaced.

My friend (who's not all that wise some times) had a
Buick station wagon for hauling his wife and kids.
Fondly called the BMW, Big Mormon Wagon. One time
he bought a set of the small steel lug nuts, because
"didn't like" the tall lug nuts with the closed tops.
With the decorator aluminum wheels, they have a deep
well for the lug nuts. I told him that was a terrible
idea. Anyhow, the steel lugs were so far down in, a
wrench or socket tip didn't engage enough of the lug
to remove them. We were able to remove all but a
couple, and he ended up grinding the lug and stud off
with my die grinder from HF. Remove the wheel, go to
the store and buy new studs to bang in. And then go
back to the tall lug nuts.

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 07:39:33 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 9/24/2014 1:31 AM, wrote:
I believe I'm applying well over 200 foot-pounds. The wrench twists so
far that I think more force would be dangerous. I'll see what tools
neighbors have, or maybe go to a mechanic.

Can I have the dealer and his crew sent to prison?

A 3/4" impact wrench will spin them off but you should be able to
crack them loose with a breaker bar and your pipe. Use a 6 point
socket.

I second the motion, to have the last mechanic
sent to prison, or at least reeducation camp.

I've had some success with 25 inch breaker bar,
and black impact sockets.

No clue what it is with mechanics who think that
max tight is the only way to go.



.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
They are NOT mechanics - they are untrained tire installers.- AKA
hacks.

On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 07:13:37 -0400, Steve Stone
wrote:


I believe I'm applying well over 200 foot-pounds.

It is a common problem. I've broken/ torn apart factory provided combo
jack handles/lug nut removal tools trying to remove lug nuts after tires
have been touched by service stations or dealerships.

Steve
As a dealership service manager I'd spot-check the torque on wheel
nuts after the mechanic was finished a job. Random selection of a few
a week. Heaven help the guy who under-torqued or over-torqued a
wheel!!! I started this after a customer lost a wheel less than 3
miles from the shop. It never happened again. They guys were VERY
carefull to make sure all wheels were properly torqued. They'd run
them on with the impact on the hoist, drop the vehicle to the ground-
retorque with the torque wrench, then install the wheel covers if so
equipped.

On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 07:48:05 -0400, "snafu"
wrote:

"J Burns" wrote in message ...

I bought tires a couple of months ago. Yesterday I tried to remove a
wheel to check the bearing. The nuts wouldn't budge.

They're supposed to be torqued to about 65 foot-pounds. After letting
penetrating oil work overnight, I got 15 of the 16 nuts with a cruciform
wrench with 10" arms. I used a pipe to extend one arm and stood on the
other.

I believe I'm applying well over 200 foot-pounds. The wrench twists so
far that I think more force would be dangerous. I'll see what tools
neighbors have, or maybe go to a mechanic.

Can I have the dealer and his crew sent to prison?

A few years ago a tire on my Toyota truck was losing air. When I tried (with
helpers) to remove the wheel, two of the six lugs snapped off and we
couldn't budge the other four. To make a long story short, I was later told
that Toyota (and I think Mazda) were notorious for using soft metal on their
lugs which could be easily cross-threaded and essentially welded to the nut.
So in addition to replacing the tire I had all 24 lugs replaced.
Toyota had no more problems with soft lug bolts than anyone else.
Perhaps some problems with soft alloy lug NUTS - but not any worse
than any other company in my experience. We always lubed the studs
before installing the nuts - just a light touch of anti-seize.

On 9/24/2014 7:59 AM, trader_4 wrote:
A friend of mine had the lug bolts put on his car super tight by
a tire place too. He went back to complain. The manager came out
with a torque wrench, showed him what the wrench was set to, then
put it on one of the bolts, applied pressure until the wrench clicked.
Whereupon he said "See, that shows that they are torqued to the right
amount".


Hope the friend asked the manager to loosen all
the lugs and then retorque.

Agree, about the idiot part.


..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 9/24/2014 8:20 AM, wrote:
As a dealership service manager I'd spot-check the torque on wheel
nuts after the mechanic was finished a job. Random selection of a few
a week. Heaven help the guy who under-torqued or over-torqued a
wheel!!! I started this after a customer lost a wheel less than 3
miles from the shop. It never happened again. They guys were VERY
carefull to make sure all wheels were properly torqued. They'd run
them on with the impact on the hoist, drop the vehicle to the ground-
retorque with the torque wrench, then install the wheel covers if so
equipped.


Did you ask the customers to bring in their aluminum
wheels the next day for retorque?


..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 9/24/2014 7:59 AM, trader_4 wrote:


A friend of mine had the lug bolts put on his car super tight by
a tire place too. He went back to complain. The manager came out
with a torque wrench, showed him what the wrench was set to, then
put it on one of the bolts, applied pressure until the wrench clicked.
Whereupon he said "See, that shows that they are torqued to the right
amount".

Which goes to show you, even the right eqpt is useless in the hands of
an idiot. Personally, I use an electric impact wrench and just do it
based on experience. Haven't had a problem yet.

He may be an idiot using that demo, but . . .
Don't blame the installer. I had lug bolts om my Karmann Ghia. I'd put
them on with very little torque, but they'd be a bear to get off later.
I'd have to put a pipe on the socket bar and jump on it for some.

The bolts and holes were perfectly machined. You could put them in by
hand to the last 1/8th turn with the wrench.

On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 01:52:32 -0400, J Burns wrote:

On 9/24/14, 1:31 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 01:21:24 -0400, J Burns
wrote:

I bought tires a couple of months ago. Yesterday I tried to remove a
wheel to check the bearing. The nuts wouldn't budge.

They're supposed to be torqued to about 65 foot-pounds. After letting
penetrating oil work overnight, I got 15 of the 16 nuts with a cruciform
wrench with 10" arms. I used a pipe to extend one arm and stood on the
other.

I believe I'm applying well over 200 foot-pounds. The wrench twists so
far that I think more force would be dangerous. I'll see what tools
neighbors have, or maybe go to a mechanic.

Can I have the dealer and his crew sent to prison?

A 3/4" impact wrench will spin them off but you should be able to
crack them loose with a breaker bar and your pipe. Use a 6 point
socket.

I borrowed a 1/2" breaker bar and a 6-point thick-wall socket designed
for impact wrenches. I understand one advantage is that if you hammer
on the breaker bar, the socket will transmit shock to the wheel around
the nut. It seems to transmit the shock pretty well but hasn't worked
so far.

My BIL has a 3/4" set. I used to use it on farm equipment. That might
work.

Dadblamed tired dealer! I wonder if the lugs and nuts are permanently
damaged from the stress.

An air impact wrench will probably loosen them. I would take it back to
the tire shop, have them break the nuts loose and torque them myself
before leaving. If you do not have a torque wrench, then use a cross
wrench to retighten until you can get to a wrench. Most lug nuts tighten
76 to 80 ftlbs torque. You will have a real problem if you have a flat
on the road.
--
Mr.E

On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 04:49:34 -0700, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

...snip...
BTW, I did try soaking a totally rusted pair of fence
pliers in concentrated hydrochloric acid. It did eat
the rust off, and now I've got a working pair of pliers.
I never thought that would work.
...snip...

I accidently misplaced my very expensive Krauter electric pliers outside,
then found them a year later seized solid. just kept them mourning their
loss. Then, after watching the 'remetallization' process our Brulin's
quaternary sanitizer was doing [Unicide 256] soaked the pliers in the
compound,not only did some/much of the rust turn back into metal, but the
pliers started to open very stiffly. Kept working on them and now have my
pliers back!

Have you ever tried Whink [mild hydrofluoric acid] to remove rust? Be sure
to wear gloves! Eats under your fingernails, but you don't realize it
until an hour later when it feels like your nails are being constantly
ripped off. So mild doesn't do much damage to porcelain - tried to etch
glass and it won't.

On 9/24/2014 9:43 AM, RobertMacy wrote:
I accidently misplaced my very expensive Krauter electric pliers
outside, then found them a year later seized solid. just kept them
mourning their loss. Then, after watching the 'remetallization' process
our Brulin's quaternary sanitizer was doing [Unicide 256] soaked the
pliers in the compound,not only did some/much of the rust turn back into
metal, but the pliers started to open very stiffly. Kept working on them
and now have my pliers back!

Have you ever tried Whink [mild hydrofluoric acid] to remove rust? Be
sure to wear gloves! Eats under your fingernails, but you don't realize
it until an hour later when it feels like your nails are being
constantly ripped off. So mild doesn't do much damage to porcelain -
tried to etch glass and it won't.

Nice to know some thing works.

As for HF acid, I refuse to get near the stuff.
Some HVAC guys use that on coils, since they
end up looking shiny and bright. I like the
alkaline cleaner, which works nicely.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

wrote:

Toyota had no more problems with soft lug bolts than anyone else.
Perhaps some problems with soft alloy lug NUTS - but not any worse
than any other company in my experience. We always lubed the studs
before installing the nuts - just a light touch of anti-seize.

Despite some instructions I've seen I always use a little anti-sieze. I
haven't had a wheel fall off in the last 50 years and I've had no problems
removing the lugs or nuts.

I rotate the tires or change out to the winter studs myself so there's no
problem. On the rare occasions where I buy tires, the first thing I do when
I get home is retorque the fasteners. I've hit a few that required the
impact wrench.

I'd bought a Harbor Freight electric impact wrench specifically to break
loose the bolts on a notorcycle fork's damper tubes, but it has come in
handy several times. For a tool that gets used once or twice a year at the
outside I've gotten my money's worth.

On 09/23/2014 10:21 PM, J Burns wrote:
I bought tires a couple of months ago. Yesterday I tried to remove a
wheel to check the bearing. The nuts wouldn't budge.

They're supposed to be torqued to about 65 foot-pounds. After letting
penetrating oil work overnight, I got 15 of the 16 nuts with a cruciform
wrench with 10" arms. I used a pipe to extend one arm and stood on the
other.

I believe I'm applying well over 200 foot-pounds. The wrench twists so
far that I think more force would be dangerous. I'll see what tools
neighbors have, or maybe go to a mechanic.

Can I have the dealer and his crew sent to prison?

I learned this same lesson years ago after a tire shop over-torqued my
lugnuts after I bought some new tires. As a result, I now specify the
torque I want them set to, which is on the low side of the recommended
torque. They have me sign a waiver, and when I get it home I
double-check the torque and push it a little higher to the middle of the
range.

Jon

wrote:

They are NOT mechanics - they are untrained tire installers.- AKA
hacks.

I bought a set of tires in Knoxville. I prefered bias ply tube types when I
could still get them and they installed the set. On the F150, the spare was
in a hanger under the bed. The first clue was when the spare fell down and
was dragging on the road. As the trip went on, 3 out of 4 of the tubes blew
out. I was not happy when I got back to Arizona with the help of Fix-A-Flat
and a tire inflator.

One good thing about southern Arizona and the Mexican mechanics were they
understood tube tires.

Another time, I watched a motorcycle 'mechanic' install a new tube type tire
without the benefit of a tube.

I've alway done almost all of my own vehicle maintenance. I won't say I've
never screwed something up, but at least I knew when I did it and didn't get
a surprise 50 miles down the road.

J Burns wrote:
I bought tires a couple of months ago. Yesterday I tried to remove a
wheel to check the bearing. The nuts wouldn't budge.

They're supposed to be torqued to about 65 foot-pounds. After letting
penetrating oil work overnight, I got 15 of the 16 nuts with a cruciform
wrench with 10" arms. I used a pipe to extend one arm and stood on the
other.

I believe I'm applying well over 200 foot-pounds. The wrench twists so
far that I think more force would be dangerous. I'll see what tools
neighbors have, or maybe go to a mechanic.

Can I have the dealer and his crew sent to prison?
Hi,
You don't have impact wrench? Now you used oil and they're all no
good.Must be a small old vehicle. If you don't have compressor, how
about trying electric impact wrench? Can't rent/borrrow one?

Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 9/24/2014 1:52 AM, J Burns wrote:
I borrowed a 1/2" breaker bar and a 6-point thick-wall socket designed
for impact wrenches. I understand one advantage is that if you hammer
on the breaker bar, the socket will transmit shock to the wheel around
the nut. It seems to transmit the shock pretty well but hasn't worked
so far.

My BIL has a 3/4" set. I used to use it on farm equipment. That might
work.

Dadblamed tired dealer! I wonder if the lugs and nuts are permanently
damaged from the stress.

Wow, that must be tight. Are you pressing down on the wrench, to the
left of the lug? I find that works, compared to lifting up to the right.

On lug nuts. If the wheels are aluminum, the tire places
want to recheck the lugs after 25 to 50 miles. This is a
real concern. I did a rear wheel brake pad slap one time,
and figured they were fine. Two days later, I had a rather
serious shake. Took it to my garage, and he noted that
the right front tire was out of round. On the way to the
junkyard to get another tire, the left rear fell off.
Hi,
You buy tire from junk yard? You put your life on the line with junk
tire?, LOL!

Mechanic had not asked if I did anything to the wheels
lately "Well, replace brake pads in the back" and had
not pulled the snap caps to see if the lugs were tight.

I share the blame, I didn't recheck torque after 50 miles.

Stormin Mormon wrote:

BTW, I did try soaking a totally rusted pair of fence
pliers in concentrated hydrochloric acid. It did eat
the rust off, and now I've got a working pair of pliers.
I never thought that would work.

Next time, try phosphoric acid. You can find it in the masonry section of a
big box store since it's used to etch concrete. The advantages are that it
will attack rust and not the underlying metal so you can leave the item in
the acid without worrying and it leaves a phosphate coating that inhibits
rust. With hydrochloric, you have a super clean, etched surface that will
rust in front of your eyes if you don't get some sort of protective barrier
on.

If you read the ingredients in Coke, you'll find phosphoric acid which is
probably why it's alleged to be a rust remover. I wouldn't drink the stuff
straight but it's far less aggressive than hydorchloric.

Stormin Mormon wrote:

I share the blame, I didn't recheck torque after 50 miles.

I never had a problem with the alloy wheels I run.

J Burns wrote:

Dadblamed tired dealer! I wonder if the lugs and nuts are permanently
damaged from the stress.

Be happy. I think even Chrysler Corporation gave up on the left handed
threads. Those were a barrel of laughs for the uninitiated.

On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 10:21:24 PM UTC-7, J Burns wrote:
I bought tires a couple of months ago. Yesterday I tried to remove a
wheel to check the bearing. The nuts wouldn't budge.
They're supposed to be torqued to about 65 foot-pounds. After letting
penetrating oil work overnight, I got 15 of the 16 nuts with a cruciform
wrench with 10" arms. I used a pipe to extend one arm and stood on the
other.

I believe I'm applying well over 200 foot-pounds. The wrench twists so
far that I think more force would be dangerous. I'll see what tools
neighbors have, or maybe go to a mechanic.

Can I have the dealer and his crew sent to prison?

BTDT. I had a flat with an old F150, Miracle of miracles the toy jack that came with the truck worked. I had a cruciform lug wrench. No way could I break any of the lugs loose. Called for road service. Unfortunately it was harvest season and every service truck in the town was backed up on calls. Mechanic finally came out in private car. He at least had a cheater and managed to get all but one loose after an hours work. Finally had wait until a tow truck showed up. He couldn't get the last one either. Finally lifted truck and dropped breaking that lug. That lug had been cross threaded but driven tight with the rattle gun.

The usual problem is the tire shops don't reset the torque wrenches after working on big equipment. Watch them sometime and at a good shop (mine is a very good one) you will see them apply the rattle gun then pick up a real torque wrench, apply 'click', yep it is tight. Unfortunately, yes it _is_ tight. But that 'click' only says that the nut has been tightened to AT LEAST the torque setting when in fact it has been way overtightened. The last time the setting on the rattle gun was changed was to use it on some big semi.

I wrote the shop and long letter explaining what had happened.


My tire shop removed and reinstalled all 4 wheels, replaced the broken stud and the next time I had a flat all lugs came off with normal pressure.

Harry K

rbowman wrote:
wrote:

Toyota had no more problems with soft lug bolts than anyone else.
Perhaps some problems with soft alloy lug NUTS - but not any worse
than any other company in my experience. We always lubed the studs
before installing the nuts - just a light touch of anti-seize.

Despite some instructions I've seen I always use a little anti-sieze. I
haven't had a wheel fall off in the last 50 years and I've had no problems
removing the lugs or nuts.

I rotate the tires or change out to the winter studs myself so there's no
problem. On the rare occasions where I buy tires, the first thing I do when
I get home is retorque the fasteners. I've hit a few that required the
impact wrench.

I'd bought a Harbor Freight electric impact wrench specifically to break
loose the bolts on a notorcycle fork's damper tubes, but it has come in
handy several times. For a tool that gets used once or twice a year at the
outside I've gotten my money's worth.


I have a decent compressor in my garage runs off 220V. Used to change
over tires
between seasons and blow the sprinklers in the fall. Never had to use
any thing on
wheel nut/stud on 3 vehicles other than proper torquing.

On 9/24/2014 10:06 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
serious shake. Took it to my garage, and he noted that
the right front tire was out of round. On the way to the
junkyard to get another tire, the left rear fell off.
Hi,
You buy tire from junk yard? You put your life on the line with junk
tire?, LOL!

They worked for the last guy.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 9/24/2014 10:06 AM, rbowman wrote:
Next time, try phosphoric acid. You can find it in the masonry section of a
big box store since it's used to etch concrete. The advantages are that it
will attack rust and not the underlying metal so you can leave the item in
the acid without worrying and it leaves a phosphate coating that inhibits
rust. With hydrochloric, you have a super clean, etched surface that will
rust in front of your eyes if you don't get some sort of protective barrier
on.

If you read the ingredients in Coke, you'll find phosphoric acid which is
probably why it's alleged to be a rust remover. I wouldn't drink the stuff
straight but it's far less aggressive than hydorchloric.


HCL did the job, I had some on hand, and
the experiment was a success. Why would I
try some thing different? Does phosphoric
work better? I guess you do mention a
couple advantages. I put some oil on the
fence pliers, and they are still good.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"J Burns" wrote in message ...

I bought tires a couple of months ago. Yesterday I tried to remove a
wheel to check the bearing. The nuts wouldn't budge.

They're supposed to be torqued to about 65 foot-pounds. After letting
penetrating oil work overnight, I got 15 of the 16 nuts with a cruciform
wrench with 10" arms. I used a pipe to extend one arm and stood on the
other.

I believe I'm applying well over 200 foot-pounds. The wrench twists so
far that I think more force would be dangerous. I'll see what tools
neighbors have, or maybe go to a mechanic.

Can I have the dealer and his crew sent to prison?


Years ago I had Sears install snow tires on my truck. Was on a back rough
road and had a flat. I was bending my 4 way lug wrench. No results. Drove
into town to a station I bought gas from. They finely got the nuts off with
an impact wrench. Never bought tires from Sears again.......WW

On 9/24/14, 7:19 AM, Ken Olson wrote:
"J Burns" wrote in message
...
I bought tires a couple of months ago. Yesterday I tried to remove a wheel
to check the bearing. The nuts wouldn't budge.

They're supposed to be torqued to about 65 foot-pounds. After letting
penetrating oil work overnight, I got 15 of the 16 nuts with a cruciform
wrench with 10" arms. I used a pipe to extend one arm and stood on the
other.

I believe I'm applying well over 200 foot-pounds. The wrench twists so
far that I think more force would be dangerous. I'll see what tools
neighbors have, or maybe go to a mechanic.

Can I have the dealer and his crew sent to prison?

Heat it with a small torch. Don't have to get it red hot, just enough to
cause some expansion.


Heat sounds good. Steel expands 7 millionths per degree F, so boiling
hot might be enough.

Now I've got to find a place that sells those little propane tanks. I
left the torch head on my last tank, and the valve leaked.

On 9/24/14, 10:03 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:
J Burns wrote:
I bought tires a couple of months ago. Yesterday I tried to remove a
wheel to check the bearing. The nuts wouldn't budge.

They're supposed to be torqued to about 65 foot-pounds. After letting
penetrating oil work overnight, I got 15 of the 16 nuts with a cruciform
wrench with 10" arms. I used a pipe to extend one arm and stood on the
other.

I believe I'm applying well over 200 foot-pounds. The wrench twists so
far that I think more force would be dangerous. I'll see what tools
neighbors have, or maybe go to a mechanic.

Can I have the dealer and his crew sent to prison?
Hi,
You don't have impact wrench? Now you used oil and they're all no
good.Must be a small old vehicle. If you don't have compressor, how
about trying electric impact wrench? Can't rent/borrrow one?

If you mean the kind of wrench you hit with a hammer, I have two. I
think one has a 1/2" drive. I never had much luck with it in the past,
but I'll look for it.

Now that I've used oil, does that mean my lugs and nuts are no good?

When I reinstalled the first 15 with a torque wrench, I discovered that
the L wrench that came with the car gives the right torque "by feel."
How about that!

I've read most of this tread and I only have three comments:

1. I also use anti-seize compound on wheel lugs and have never had any problems doing that.

2. I also buy tires from auto wrecking yards. A good set of tires should last a good 10 years or more, and often that car with the new tires gets into an accident after only one or two years with those new tires. It's the auto wrecking yard that inherits those tires when they bring the smashed up car in, and generally the tires are an excellent buy.

3. In regard to the OP's problem with the overtightened lug nut, I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Torque Sticks so far in this thread.

Torque Sticks, Torque Sockets and Other Discount Tools

Torque Sticks are 1/2 inch drive extension bars that are machined to precise diameters so that they act very much like a torsion bar spring. You simply put the Torque Stick in between your impact wrench and the socket you use to drive the lug nut, and it tightens the lug nut to a predetermined torque depending on the Torque Stick you're using. That is, you simply put the Torque Stick on the impact wrench, and then the impact socket on the Torque Stick and tighten the lug nuts. The Torque Stick will tighten the lug nuts up to a predetermined torque, after which the twisting of the Torque Stick will absorb the impacts of the impact wrench, and the lug nut won't be tightened any further. The OP needs to go back to the place that overtightened his lug nuts and explain to them how their using Torque Sticks is good business practice because it will keep customers from throwing Molotov cocktails through their business' front window.

Here in Winnipeg, it's rare to see a garage that DOESN'T use Torque Sticks when replacing the wheels on a car.

On 9/24/2014 11:46 AM, J Burns wrote:
You don't have impact wrench? Now you used oil and they're all no
good.Must be a small old vehicle. If you don't have compressor, how
about trying electric impact wrench? Can't rent/borrrow one?

If you mean the kind of wrench you hit with a hammer, I have two. I
think one has a 1/2" drive. I never had much luck with it in the past,
but I'll look for it.
CY: More likely this:

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-2-hal...nch-45252.html



Now that I've used oil, does that mean my lugs and nuts are no good?

CY: Some oil won't hurt.


When I reinstalled the first 15 with a torque wrench, I discovered that
the L wrench that came with the car gives the right torque "by feel."
How about that!

CY: That's good news. So, how do you know that?


..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 09/24/2014 11:46 AM, J Burns wrote:

When I reinstalled the first 15 with a torque wrench, I discovered that
the L wrench that came with the car gives the right torque "by feel."
How about that!

I read a while ago that many mechanics don't use a torque wrench: they
use a well-calibrated elbow. The one time I used a torque wrench on a
crucial part, the thread in the aluminum casting stripped before I got
to the specified torque -- had to get the car towed to a repair shop and
have a Helicoil inserted.

Perce

I repair roll laminating machines that apply plastic to paper. Every now and then I find a machine I CAN NOT loosen the allen screws on drilling them out, ruining sprockets and other parts are a heal pain.

Occasionally the DIY repair person reports I always know when the allen scres are tight, since they go click click click

Very expensive for the machines owner

On 9/24/14, 7:19 AM, Ken Olson wrote:

Heat it with a small torch. Don't have to get it red hot, just enough to
cause some expansion.


Twerked!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHitWbFIfaY

On 9/24/14, 11:58 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 9/24/2014 11:46 AM, J Burns wrote:


When I reinstalled the first 15 with a torque wrench, I discovered that
the L wrench that came with the car gives the right torque "by feel."
How about that!

CY: That's good news. So, how do you know that?


Nissan specifies 58-72 foot pounds. I set one to 64 with a torque
wrench, loosened it half a turn, and tightened it by feel with the OEM
wrench. The nut rotated to the same position. I tried it with other
nuts with the same results.

As I would not be pushing on the pry-blade end of the 10" wrench, I was
probably exerting 80-100 pounds, as much as would be comfortable on that
handle. More than that, I think you can usually feel when a screw
seats. Suddenly, it's less elastic.