I bought tires a couple of months ago. Yesterday I tried to remove a
wheel to check the bearing. The nuts wouldn't budge.

They're supposed to be torqued to about 65 foot-pounds. After letting
penetrating oil work overnight, I got 15 of the 16 nuts with a cruciform
wrench with 10" arms. I used a pipe to extend one arm and stood on the
other.

I believe I'm applying well over 200 foot-pounds. The wrench twists so
far that I think more force would be dangerous. I'll see what tools
neighbors have, or maybe go to a mechanic.

Can I have the dealer and his crew sent to prison?

I believe I'm applying well over 200 foot-pounds.

It is a common problem. I've broken/ torn apart factory provided combo
jack handles/lug nut removal tools trying to remove lug nuts after tires
have been touched by service stations or dealerships.

Steve

On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 07:13:37 -0400, Steve Stone
wrote:


I believe I'm applying well over 200 foot-pounds.

It is a common problem. I've broken/ torn apart factory provided combo
jack handles/lug nut removal tools trying to remove lug nuts after tires
have been touched by service stations or dealerships.

Steve
As a dealership service manager I'd spot-check the torque on wheel
nuts after the mechanic was finished a job. Random selection of a few
a week. Heaven help the guy who under-torqued or over-torqued a
wheel!!! I started this after a customer lost a wheel less than 3
miles from the shop. It never happened again. They guys were VERY
carefull to make sure all wheels were properly torqued. They'd run
them on with the impact on the hoist, drop the vehicle to the ground-
retorque with the torque wrench, then install the wheel covers if so
equipped.

On 9/24/2014 8:20 AM, wrote:
As a dealership service manager I'd spot-check the torque on wheel
nuts after the mechanic was finished a job. Random selection of a few
a week. Heaven help the guy who under-torqued or over-torqued a
wheel!!! I started this after a customer lost a wheel less than 3
miles from the shop. It never happened again. They guys were VERY
carefull to make sure all wheels were properly torqued. They'd run
them on with the impact on the hoist, drop the vehicle to the ground-
retorque with the torque wrench, then install the wheel covers if so
equipped.


Did you ask the customers to bring in their aluminum
wheels the next day for retorque?


..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 08:32:55 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 9/24/2014 8:20 AM, wrote:
As a dealership service manager I'd spot-check the torque on wheel
nuts after the mechanic was finished a job. Random selection of a few
a week. Heaven help the guy who under-torqued or over-torqued a
wheel!!! I started this after a customer lost a wheel less than 3
miles from the shop. It never happened again. They guys were VERY
carefull to make sure all wheels were properly torqued. They'd run
them on with the impact on the hoist, drop the vehicle to the ground-
retorque with the torque wrench, then install the wheel covers if so
equipped.


Did you ask the customers to bring in their aluminum
wheels the next day for retorque?


.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
We told them to drop by and have them rechecked at no charge. NEVER
had one change torque.

On 9/24/2014 1:48 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 08:32:55 -0400, Stormin Mormon
Did you ask the customers to bring in their aluminum
wheels the next day for retorque?
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
We told them to drop by and have them rechecked at no charge. NEVER
had one change torque.


I'm not all sure what is different, your shop
or mine. I may never know.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 08:20:13 -0400, wrote:

As a dealership service manager I'd spot-check the torque on wheel
nuts after the mechanic was finished a job. Random selection of a few
a week. Heaven help the guy who under-torqued or over-torqued a
wheel!!! I started this after a customer lost a wheel less than 3
miles from the shop. It never happened again. They guys were VERY
carefull to make sure all wheels were properly torqued. They'd run
them on with the impact on the hoist, drop the vehicle to the ground-
retorque with the torque wrench, then install the wheel covers if so
equipped.

+1 Good on you
--
Somtimes you just have a bad day at the dungeon

"J Burns" wrote in message
...
I bought tires a couple of months ago. Yesterday I tried to remove a wheel
to check the bearing. The nuts wouldn't budge.

They're supposed to be torqued to about 65 foot-pounds. After letting
penetrating oil work overnight, I got 15 of the 16 nuts with a cruciform
wrench with 10" arms. I used a pipe to extend one arm and stood on the
other.

I believe I'm applying well over 200 foot-pounds. The wrench twists so
far that I think more force would be dangerous. I'll see what tools
neighbors have, or maybe go to a mechanic.

Can I have the dealer and his crew sent to prison?

Heat it with a small torch. Don't have to get it red hot, just enough to
cause some expansion.

On 9/24/14, 7:19 AM, Ken Olson wrote:
"J Burns" wrote in message
...
I bought tires a couple of months ago. Yesterday I tried to remove a wheel
to check the bearing. The nuts wouldn't budge.

They're supposed to be torqued to about 65 foot-pounds. After letting
penetrating oil work overnight, I got 15 of the 16 nuts with a cruciform
wrench with 10" arms. I used a pipe to extend one arm and stood on the
other.

I believe I'm applying well over 200 foot-pounds. The wrench twists so
far that I think more force would be dangerous. I'll see what tools
neighbors have, or maybe go to a mechanic.

Can I have the dealer and his crew sent to prison?

Heat it with a small torch. Don't have to get it red hot, just enough to
cause some expansion.


Heat sounds good. Steel expands 7 millionths per degree F, so boiling
hot might be enough.

Now I've got to find a place that sells those little propane tanks. I
left the torch head on my last tank, and the valve leaked.

On 9/24/14, 7:19 AM, Ken Olson wrote:

Heat it with a small torch. Don't have to get it red hot, just enough to
cause some expansion.


Twerked!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHitWbFIfaY

"J Burns" wrote in message ...

I bought tires a couple of months ago. Yesterday I tried to remove a
wheel to check the bearing. The nuts wouldn't budge.

They're supposed to be torqued to about 65 foot-pounds. After letting
penetrating oil work overnight, I got 15 of the 16 nuts with a cruciform
wrench with 10" arms. I used a pipe to extend one arm and stood on the
other.

I believe I'm applying well over 200 foot-pounds. The wrench twists so
far that I think more force would be dangerous. I'll see what tools
neighbors have, or maybe go to a mechanic.

Can I have the dealer and his crew sent to prison?

A few years ago a tire on my Toyota truck was losing air. When I tried (with
helpers) to remove the wheel, two of the six lugs snapped off and we
couldn't budge the other four. To make a long story short, I was later told
that Toyota (and I think Mazda) were notorious for using soft metal on their
lugs which could be easily cross-threaded and essentially welded to the nut.
So in addition to replacing the tire I had all 24 lugs replaced.

On Wednesday, September 24, 2014 7:48:05 AM UTC-4, snafu wrote:
"J Burns" wrote in message ...



I bought tires a couple of months ago. Yesterday I tried to remove a

wheel to check the bearing. The nuts wouldn't budge.



They're supposed to be torqued to about 65 foot-pounds. After letting

penetrating oil work overnight, I got 15 of the 16 nuts with a cruciform

wrench with 10" arms. I used a pipe to extend one arm and stood on the

other.



I believe I'm applying well over 200 foot-pounds. The wrench twists so

far that I think more force would be dangerous. I'll see what tools

neighbors have, or maybe go to a mechanic.



Can I have the dealer and his crew sent to prison?



A few years ago a tire on my Toyota truck was losing air. When I tried (with

helpers) to remove the wheel, two of the six lugs snapped off and we

couldn't budge the other four. To make a long story short, I was later told

that Toyota (and I think Mazda) were notorious for using soft metal on their

lugs which could be easily cross-threaded and essentially welded to the nut.

So in addition to replacing the tire I had all 24 lugs replaced.

A friend of mine had the lug bolts put on his car super tight by
a tire place too. He went back to complain. The manager came out
with a torque wrench, showed him what the wrench was set to, then
put it on one of the bolts, applied pressure until the wrench clicked.
Whereupon he said "See, that shows that they are torqued to the right
amount".

Which goes to show you, even the right eqpt is useless in the hands of
an idiot. Personally, I use an electric impact wrench and just do it
based on experience. Haven't had a problem yet.

On 9/24/2014 7:59 AM, trader_4 wrote:
A friend of mine had the lug bolts put on his car super tight by
a tire place too. He went back to complain. The manager came out
with a torque wrench, showed him what the wrench was set to, then
put it on one of the bolts, applied pressure until the wrench clicked.
Whereupon he said "See, that shows that they are torqued to the right
amount".


Hope the friend asked the manager to loosen all
the lugs and then retorque.

Agree, about the idiot part.


..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 9/24/2014 7:59 AM, trader_4 wrote:


A friend of mine had the lug bolts put on his car super tight by
a tire place too. He went back to complain. The manager came out
with a torque wrench, showed him what the wrench was set to, then
put it on one of the bolts, applied pressure until the wrench clicked.
Whereupon he said "See, that shows that they are torqued to the right
amount".

Which goes to show you, even the right eqpt is useless in the hands of
an idiot. Personally, I use an electric impact wrench and just do it
based on experience. Haven't had a problem yet.

He may be an idiot using that demo, but . . .
Don't blame the installer. I had lug bolts om my Karmann Ghia. I'd put
them on with very little torque, but they'd be a bear to get off later.
I'd have to put a pipe on the socket bar and jump on it for some.

The bolts and holes were perfectly machined. You could put them in by
hand to the last 1/8th turn with the wrench.

On 9/24/14, 8:37 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/24/2014 7:59 AM, trader_4 wrote:


A friend of mine had the lug bolts put on his car super tight by
a tire place too. He went back to complain. The manager came out
with a torque wrench, showed him what the wrench was set to, then
put it on one of the bolts, applied pressure until the wrench clicked.
Whereupon he said "See, that shows that they are torqued to the right
amount".

Which goes to show you, even the right eqpt is useless in the hands of
an idiot. Personally, I use an electric impact wrench and just do it
based on experience. Haven't had a problem yet.

He may be an idiot using that demo, but . . .
Don't blame the installer. I had lug bolts om my Karmann Ghia. I'd put
them on with very little torque, but they'd be a bear to get off later.
I'd have to put a pipe on the socket bar and jump on it for some.

The bolts and holes were perfectly machined. You could put them in by
hand to the last 1/8th turn with the wrench.

I wonder if it was a galvanic reaction between lug nuts and studs. I
guess that's what makes some screws hard to snap loose. I always figured
it was intentional, like using Lock-Tite.

On 9/24/2014 7:48 AM, snafu wrote:
A few years ago a tire on my Toyota truck was losing air. When I tried
(with helpers) to remove the wheel, two of the six lugs snapped off and
we couldn't budge the other four. To make a long story short, I was
later told that Toyota (and I think Mazda) were notorious for using soft
metal on their lugs which could be easily cross-threaded and essentially
welded to the nut. So in addition to replacing the tire I had all 24
lugs replaced.

My friend (who's not all that wise some times) had a
Buick station wagon for hauling his wife and kids.
Fondly called the BMW, Big Mormon Wagon. One time
he bought a set of the small steel lug nuts, because
"didn't like" the tall lug nuts with the closed tops.
With the decorator aluminum wheels, they have a deep
well for the lug nuts. I told him that was a terrible
idea. Anyhow, the steel lugs were so far down in, a
wrench or socket tip didn't engage enough of the lug
to remove them. We were able to remove all but a
couple, and he ended up grinding the lug and stud off
with my die grinder from HF. Remove the wheel, go to
the store and buy new studs to bang in. And then go
back to the tall lug nuts.

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 08:00:38 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

Remove the wheel, go to
the store and buy new studs to bang in.

I used my air chisel / hammer with a tip to drive my lug studs out and
in. Much easier than banging them in or out. Few minutes to replace
all lugs in a 4X4 wheel hub.

Sample tool:

https://tinyurl.com/pmj3fqc
--
Somtimes you just have a bad day at the dungeon

On 9/24/2014 2:04 PM, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 08:00:38 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

Remove the wheel, go to
the store and buy new studs to bang in.

I used my air chisel / hammer with a tip to drive my lug studs out and
in. Much easier than banging them in or out. Few minutes to replace
all lugs in a 4X4 wheel hub.

Sample tool:

https://tinyurl.com/pmj3fqc

I tried to remove studs one time, with a ball
joint C clamp. No joy. Finally got out the torch
and BFH, and that worked. Air chisel looks good.
I'll try that next time. Thank you.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 14:09:46 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

I used my air chisel / hammer with a tip to drive my lug studs out and
in. Much easier than banging them in or out. Few minutes to replace
all lugs in a 4X4 wheel hub.

Sample tool:

https://tinyurl.com/pmj3fqc

I tried to remove studs one time, with a ball
joint C clamp. No joy. Finally got out the torch
and BFH, and that worked. Air chisel looks good.
I'll try that next time. Thank you.

I needed to replace a brake rotor. Seemed the only way was to remove
the lug studs to separate the wheel hub from the rotor on my 4X4.

http://oi46.tinypic.com/ou5gfa.jpg

I put new studs in, with the new rotor and a cleaned-up hub.

Driving the lug studs out also assisted in removing the tone ring on
the rotor....saved the tone ring and used it again.

http://oi48.tinypic.com/9i4874.jpg

Lug studs and nuts are not that expensive - buy the correct ones.

The tool above is the cat's meow. Use it also for changin' lugs on a
rear axle so not to bang or damage a bearing

On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 07:48:05 -0400, "snafu"
wrote:

"J Burns" wrote in message ...

I bought tires a couple of months ago. Yesterday I tried to remove a
wheel to check the bearing. The nuts wouldn't budge.

They're supposed to be torqued to about 65 foot-pounds. After letting
penetrating oil work overnight, I got 15 of the 16 nuts with a cruciform
wrench with 10" arms. I used a pipe to extend one arm and stood on the
other.

I believe I'm applying well over 200 foot-pounds. The wrench twists so
far that I think more force would be dangerous. I'll see what tools
neighbors have, or maybe go to a mechanic.

Can I have the dealer and his crew sent to prison?

A few years ago a tire on my Toyota truck was losing air. When I tried (with
helpers) to remove the wheel, two of the six lugs snapped off and we
couldn't budge the other four. To make a long story short, I was later told
that Toyota (and I think Mazda) were notorious for using soft metal on their
lugs which could be easily cross-threaded and essentially welded to the nut.
So in addition to replacing the tire I had all 24 lugs replaced.
Toyota had no more problems with soft lug bolts than anyone else.
Perhaps some problems with soft alloy lug NUTS - but not any worse
than any other company in my experience. We always lubed the studs
before installing the nuts - just a light touch of anti-seize.

wrote:

Toyota had no more problems with soft lug bolts than anyone else.
Perhaps some problems with soft alloy lug NUTS - but not any worse
than any other company in my experience. We always lubed the studs
before installing the nuts - just a light touch of anti-seize.

Despite some instructions I've seen I always use a little anti-sieze. I
haven't had a wheel fall off in the last 50 years and I've had no problems
removing the lugs or nuts.

I rotate the tires or change out to the winter studs myself so there's no
problem. On the rare occasions where I buy tires, the first thing I do when
I get home is retorque the fasteners. I've hit a few that required the
impact wrench.

I'd bought a Harbor Freight electric impact wrench specifically to break
loose the bolts on a notorcycle fork's damper tubes, but it has come in
handy several times. For a tool that gets used once or twice a year at the
outside I've gotten my money's worth.

rbowman wrote:
wrote:

Toyota had no more problems with soft lug bolts than anyone else.
Perhaps some problems with soft alloy lug NUTS - but not any worse
than any other company in my experience. We always lubed the studs
before installing the nuts - just a light touch of anti-seize.

Despite some instructions I've seen I always use a little anti-sieze. I
haven't had a wheel fall off in the last 50 years and I've had no problems
removing the lugs or nuts.

I rotate the tires or change out to the winter studs myself so there's no
problem. On the rare occasions where I buy tires, the first thing I do when
I get home is retorque the fasteners. I've hit a few that required the
impact wrench.

I'd bought a Harbor Freight electric impact wrench specifically to break
loose the bolts on a notorcycle fork's damper tubes, but it has come in
handy several times. For a tool that gets used once or twice a year at the
outside I've gotten my money's worth.


I have a decent compressor in my garage runs off 220V. Used to change
over tires
between seasons and blow the sprinklers in the fall. Never had to use
any thing on
wheel nut/stud on 3 vehicles other than proper torquing.

rbowman wrote:
wrote:

Toyota had no more problems with soft lug bolts than anyone else.
Perhaps some problems with soft alloy lug NUTS - but not any worse
than any other company in my experience. We always lubed the studs
before installing the nuts - just a light touch of anti-seize.

Despite some instructions I've seen I always use a little anti-sieze.
I haven't had a wheel fall off in the last 50 years and I've had no
problems removing the lugs or nuts.

I rotate the tires or change out to the winter studs myself so
there's no problem. On the rare occasions where I buy tires, the
first thing I do when I get home is retorque the fasteners. I've hit
a few that required the impact wrench.

I'd bought a Harbor Freight electric impact wrench specifically to
break loose the bolts on a notorcycle fork's damper tubes, but it has
come in handy several times. For a tool that gets used once or twice
a year at the outside I've gotten my money's worth.

I find that my el cheapo air impact works well for that . Similar quality
to HF , can't remember where the son got it , but he was unhappy with it and
I got it for like half what he spent .

--
Snag

On 09/23/2014 10:21 PM, J Burns wrote:
I bought tires a couple of months ago. Yesterday I tried to remove a
wheel to check the bearing. The nuts wouldn't budge.

They're supposed to be torqued to about 65 foot-pounds. After letting
penetrating oil work overnight, I got 15 of the 16 nuts with a cruciform
wrench with 10" arms. I used a pipe to extend one arm and stood on the
other.

I believe I'm applying well over 200 foot-pounds. The wrench twists so
far that I think more force would be dangerous. I'll see what tools
neighbors have, or maybe go to a mechanic.

Can I have the dealer and his crew sent to prison?

I learned this same lesson years ago after a tire shop over-torqued my
lugnuts after I bought some new tires. As a result, I now specify the
torque I want them set to, which is on the low side of the recommended
torque. They have me sign a waiver, and when I get it home I
double-check the torque and push it a little higher to the middle of the
range.

Jon

J Burns wrote:
I bought tires a couple of months ago. Yesterday I tried to remove a
wheel to check the bearing. The nuts wouldn't budge.

They're supposed to be torqued to about 65 foot-pounds. After letting
penetrating oil work overnight, I got 15 of the 16 nuts with a cruciform
wrench with 10" arms. I used a pipe to extend one arm and stood on the
other.

I believe I'm applying well over 200 foot-pounds. The wrench twists so
far that I think more force would be dangerous. I'll see what tools
neighbors have, or maybe go to a mechanic.

Can I have the dealer and his crew sent to prison?
Hi,
You don't have impact wrench? Now you used oil and they're all no
good.Must be a small old vehicle. If you don't have compressor, how
about trying electric impact wrench? Can't rent/borrrow one?

On 9/24/14, 10:03 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:
J Burns wrote:
I bought tires a couple of months ago. Yesterday I tried to remove a
wheel to check the bearing. The nuts wouldn't budge.

They're supposed to be torqued to about 65 foot-pounds. After letting
penetrating oil work overnight, I got 15 of the 16 nuts with a cruciform
wrench with 10" arms. I used a pipe to extend one arm and stood on the
other.

I believe I'm applying well over 200 foot-pounds. The wrench twists so
far that I think more force would be dangerous. I'll see what tools
neighbors have, or maybe go to a mechanic.

Can I have the dealer and his crew sent to prison?
Hi,
You don't have impact wrench? Now you used oil and they're all no
good.Must be a small old vehicle. If you don't have compressor, how
about trying electric impact wrench? Can't rent/borrrow one?

If you mean the kind of wrench you hit with a hammer, I have two. I
think one has a 1/2" drive. I never had much luck with it in the past,
but I'll look for it.

Now that I've used oil, does that mean my lugs and nuts are no good?

When I reinstalled the first 15 with a torque wrench, I discovered that
the L wrench that came with the car gives the right torque "by feel."
How about that!

On 9/24/2014 11:46 AM, J Burns wrote:
You don't have impact wrench? Now you used oil and they're all no
good.Must be a small old vehicle. If you don't have compressor, how
about trying electric impact wrench? Can't rent/borrrow one?

If you mean the kind of wrench you hit with a hammer, I have two. I
think one has a 1/2" drive. I never had much luck with it in the past,
but I'll look for it.
CY: More likely this:

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-2-hal...nch-45252.html



Now that I've used oil, does that mean my lugs and nuts are no good?

CY: Some oil won't hurt.


When I reinstalled the first 15 with a torque wrench, I discovered that
the L wrench that came with the car gives the right torque "by feel."
How about that!

CY: That's good news. So, how do you know that?


..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 9/24/14, 11:58 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 9/24/2014 11:46 AM, J Burns wrote:


When I reinstalled the first 15 with a torque wrench, I discovered that
the L wrench that came with the car gives the right torque "by feel."
How about that!

CY: That's good news. So, how do you know that?


Nissan specifies 58-72 foot pounds. I set one to 64 with a torque
wrench, loosened it half a turn, and tightened it by feel with the OEM
wrench. The nut rotated to the same position. I tried it with other
nuts with the same results.

As I would not be pushing on the pry-blade end of the 10" wrench, I was
probably exerting 80-100 pounds, as much as would be comfortable on that
handle. More than that, I think you can usually feel when a screw
seats. Suddenly, it's less elastic.

On 9/24/2014 1:18 PM, J Burns wrote:
CY: That's good news. So, how do you know that?


Nissan specifies 58-72 foot pounds. I set one to 64 with a torque
wrench, loosened it half a turn, and tightened it by feel with the OEM
wrench. The nut rotated to the same position. I tried it with other
nuts with the same results.

As I would not be pushing on the pry-blade end of the 10" wrench, I was
probably exerting 80-100 pounds, as much as would be comfortable on that
handle. More than that, I think you can usually feel when a screw
seats. Suddenly, it's less elastic.


Now, that totally makes sense. Thanks for sharing.


..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 09/24/2014 11:46 AM, J Burns wrote:

When I reinstalled the first 15 with a torque wrench, I discovered that
the L wrench that came with the car gives the right torque "by feel."
How about that!

I read a while ago that many mechanics don't use a torque wrench: they
use a well-calibrated elbow. The one time I used a torque wrench on a
crucial part, the thread in the aluminum casting stripped before I got
to the specified torque -- had to get the car towed to a repair shop and
have a Helicoil inserted.

Perce

Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
On 09/24/2014 11:46 AM, J Burns wrote:

When I reinstalled the first 15 with a torque wrench, I discovered that
the L wrench that came with the car gives the right torque "by feel."
How about that!

I read a while ago that many mechanics don't use a torque wrench: they
use a well-calibrated elbow. The one time I used a torque wrench on a
crucial part, the thread in the aluminum casting stripped before I got
to the specified torque -- had to get the car towed to a repair shop and
have a Helicoil inserted.

Perce

Hi,
So have you checked the calibration of that wrench?

Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

I read a while ago that many mechanics don't use a torque wrench: they
use a well-calibrated elbow.

I've got torque wrenches that I use if I'm feeling anal, but usually I
depend on a few decades of calibrated feel. Nothing falls off and I don't
strip threads or snap bolts so it's close enough.

rbowman wrote:
Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

I read a while ago that many mechanics don't use a torque wrench: they
use a well-calibrated elbow.

I've got torque wrenches that I use if I'm feeling anal, but usually I
depend on a few decades of calibrated feel. Nothing falls off and I don't
strip threads or snap bolts so it's close enough.

Hi,
At least on my own car I can do it pretty close. After nut makes contact
short couple
burst with wrench does it. But each vehicle has different specs......

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message
...
On 09/24/2014 11:46 AM, J Burns wrote:

When I reinstalled the first 15 with a torque wrench, I discovered that
the L wrench that came with the car gives the right torque "by feel."
How about that!

I read a while ago that many mechanics don't use a torque wrench: they use
a well-calibrated elbow.

the monkeys in tire shops are not mechanics!

Pico Rico wrote:
"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message
...
On 09/24/2014 11:46 AM, J Burns wrote:

When I reinstalled the first 15 with a torque wrench, I discovered that
the L wrench that came with the car gives the right torque "by feel."
How about that!

I read a while ago that many mechanics don't use a torque wrench: they use
a well-calibrated elbow.

the monkeys in tire shops are not mechanics!


Hi,
Some are knowledgeable. My son's Subaru WRX is updated to STi specs.
couple months ago I went to an oil change joint for an oil change. When I
pulled in, this young boy came up from the pit and asked me if this is
my car.
I said no, and why are you asking? He said this is STi in disguise, you have
intake air cooler, turbo pump, suspenssion, all are STi parts or better.
Huh?, yes, this my
son's and you are right, this car is totally updated by a hot rod shop,
Tuner. How do
you know all this. He said he is taking mechanics course in high school and
he spends all the money on cars. So said he I know a thing or two about
cars.
Some of those monkeys know what they are doing but most of them don't.
When you run into them treat them nice, they will do more than what you
ask for.

On 09/26/2014 12:32 AM, Pico Rico wrote:

When I reinstalled the first 15 with a torque wrench, I discovered that
the L wrench that came with the car gives the right torque "by feel."
How about that!

I read a while ago that many mechanics don't use a torque wrench: they use
a well-calibrated elbow.

the monkeys in tire shops are not mechanics!

Maybe not, but I was referring to mechanics in general.

J Burns wrote:

When I reinstalled the first 15 with a torque wrench, I discovered that
the L wrench that came with the car gives the right torque "by feel."
How about that!

You mean it slips and rounds off the nuts before you can over tighten them?
I never met one of those that wasn't a piece of ****.

On 9/25/14, 11:05 PM, rbowman wrote:
J Burns wrote:

When I reinstalled the first 15 with a torque wrench, I discovered that
the L wrench that came with the car gives the right torque "by feel."
How about that!

You mean it slips and rounds off the nuts before you can over tighten them?
I never met one of those that wasn't a piece of ****.

I prefer to support it on the axis, as I would a socket ratchet drive,
especially with an extension. When I haven't supported it, it has
stayed on.

It will easily apply the right torque and won't easily apply too much.
That makes it dandy.

The tools that used to come with BMW motorcycles and SAAB cars looked
cheap but worked and held up well. They were sized so you wouldn't
carelessly overtighten but were stiff enough for hammering to work on a
stubborn fastener. I liked to add quality screwdrivers, though.

J Burns wrote:

The tools that used to come with BMW motorcycles and SAAB cars looked
cheap but worked and held up well. They were sized so you wouldn't
carelessly overtighten but were stiff enough for hammering to work on a
stubborn fastener. I liked to add quality screwdrivers, though.

I guess the tools that have come with my Japanese bikes would work but I
usually replace them. Harleys are perfect so they don't come with any tools.
Cough, cough.

I can't remember ever getting tools with a car except for the jack and lug
nut wrenches. Toyota throws in the eyebolt to use when towing the vehicle.
I'm not sure that's confidence inspiring

On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 10:21:24 PM UTC-7, J Burns wrote:
I bought tires a couple of months ago. Yesterday I tried to remove a
wheel to check the bearing. The nuts wouldn't budge.
They're supposed to be torqued to about 65 foot-pounds. After letting
penetrating oil work overnight, I got 15 of the 16 nuts with a cruciform
wrench with 10" arms. I used a pipe to extend one arm and stood on the
other.

I believe I'm applying well over 200 foot-pounds. The wrench twists so
far that I think more force would be dangerous. I'll see what tools
neighbors have, or maybe go to a mechanic.

Can I have the dealer and his crew sent to prison?

BTDT. I had a flat with an old F150, Miracle of miracles the toy jack that came with the truck worked. I had a cruciform lug wrench. No way could I break any of the lugs loose. Called for road service. Unfortunately it was harvest season and every service truck in the town was backed up on calls. Mechanic finally came out in private car. He at least had a cheater and managed to get all but one loose after an hours work. Finally had wait until a tow truck showed up. He couldn't get the last one either. Finally lifted truck and dropped breaking that lug. That lug had been cross threaded but driven tight with the rattle gun.

The usual problem is the tire shops don't reset the torque wrenches after working on big equipment. Watch them sometime and at a good shop (mine is a very good one) you will see them apply the rattle gun then pick up a real torque wrench, apply 'click', yep it is tight. Unfortunately, yes it _is_ tight. But that 'click' only says that the nut has been tightened to AT LEAST the torque setting when in fact it has been way overtightened. The last time the setting on the rattle gun was changed was to use it on some big semi.

I wrote the shop and long letter explaining what had happened.


My tire shop removed and reinstalled all 4 wheels, replaced the broken stud and the next time I had a flat all lugs came off with normal pressure.

Harry K