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#161
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
... Doug Kanter wrote: "George E. Cawthon" wrote in message ... Doug Kanter wrote: "George E. Cawthon" wrote in message news 
Doug Kanter wrote: ((Snipped)) No to the last. The reason is probably economics, cheaper to pay labor than to develop, buy, and maintain machines. Also the way they are grown would probably have to change and could increase costs. It certainly isn't because the strawberries are delicate. Recent ones that I ate were nearly as hard as apples. Farmers don't develop the machinery, and farm equipment manufacturers don't pay farm laborers. But, never mind. I'm doing some research that should interest you. I'll get back to you later about which crops are NOW harvested by machines (or not). That a specious argument (statement?). Of course farmers don't develop the machinery, but they buy the machinery and they pay the farm laborers. A machinery maker isn't going to develop a machine that is too expensive for farmers to buy. You'd be terrified if you know what a typical corn harvesting setup costs. But, small farmers manage to buy them. Only if I had to buy it would I be terrified? The cost of equipment to just prepare the ground for planting is high, so is everything else. But of course that has nothing to do with anything. OTOH, no business man has hundreds of thousands of dollars in capital if he has an annual profit of $20,000. Harvesting equipment ranges from very small and relatively cheap equipment that is labor intensive to huge machines that cost a fortune. Somewhere in the "small farmer" category most do not own the harvesting equipment but hire harvesting crews. Well, that's a general statement that ends up being extreme. Nobody harvests cattle corn by hand, unless we're talking about an incredibly tiny dairy operation producing boutique cheese for fancy restaurants, or some kid grooming a cow for a state fair competition. Eliminating these exceptions, corn operations will always have some sort of trick machinery, and at the top end is equipment that checks the moisture content of the corn and sorts it in an appropriate fashion. |
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#162
Posted to alt.home.repair
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
Jim Yanik wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in : moncheri wrote: Joseph Meehan wrote: Jim Yanik wrote: "Joseph Meehan" wrote in : Let's back up a little. Why do you want those immigration laws that keep out others. Every country has their own form of immigration laws. People come here for a chance to better themselves but most do it legally. I lived in Central America for 1 year decades ago and even they have immigration laws. By the way I was there legally. Talk to the legal immigrants and you will find they are every bit as angry as the rest of us. They feel it isn't right to reward the law breakers by giving them amnesty, they feel anger that those are the same people who are causing the single largest strain on America's economy in medical, educational and legal cost which by the way the legal immigrants help pay for. I live and work among a large hispanic population and have absolutely no problem with any one I know. However, every day I see how our system is being overwhelmed by the sheer size of the growing load being placed on it. I can see our system reaching a breaking point in the not so distant future if we don't begin applying the laws already on the books. I live in a small city close to a large city. Our school, fire police etc are all being stretched. Should be put up a fence and limit those who can come in? Just to make sure that no one comes and stays, we would also need to limit visitors as well. Do you think this is a good idea? The state also has problems so what are your thoughts about doing the same for the state as well? That is NOT the equivalent of National borders.Get a clue. Why should it be different? If it is needed or a good idea at a National border, why should it not be a good ideal or needed at a local boarder? -- Joseph Meehan Dia duit |
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#163
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote: Doug Miller wrote: In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote: Doug Miller wrote: In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote: The point is it is a bad hateful fearful decision. Nonsense. Please explain how wanting to make sure that the people who come here are employed (or at least employable), and do not have criminal records, is "a bad hateful fearful decision". It seems to me that I have seen many reports that the common view is they want to find and send back anyone, including those employed who are here without permission. Yep. You still don't get it. The point is that when they come in without the proper documentation, we can't do the background checks necessary to make sure that they're not criminals. I wonder if it would not be a good idea to put a fence around Iowa and require the same kind of documentation? I guess that's up to the citizens of Iowa. How about your city. Would you support a law that no one with a criminal record as a pedophile would be allowed in and make sure that anyone who is not already there provide proof at the city limits that they don't have such a record? Sure. Why not? You are scary. You still haven't explained why you think it's "bad" and "hateful" and "fearful" to want to make sure that the people coming into our country aren't criminals before we let them in. What's so scary about that? Sorry, but I don't think anything I or anyone would say would get through to you. Just lock your door and keep the world out. -- Joseph Meehan Dia duit |
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#164
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
"BobK207" wrote in message
ups.com... Don't contact John Deere........UC Davis Ag Engineering Dept would be the place to start. I have no doubt that great minds are working on new ideas like strawberry picking machines. If UC Davis invents one, they won't be the ones building it, though. Meanwhile, it's too late - I got a note back from Deere. Where he says "see below", there was a picture of a experimental-looking contraption out in a field: =========== Mr. Kanter: Thank you for your inquiry and interest in John Deere. I am not aware of any experimental or developmental efforts by John Deere in conjunction with a strawberry harvester. I have seen strawberry harvesters (see below) As I recall this was at Michigan State University? I have also heard of raspberry harvesters which are made a by Korvan. I fact Korvan Industries (Oxbo International) makes many harvestring products. You may want to explore the Korvan web site at this link: http://www.korvan.com/ Thank you, Wade Malcolm Deere & Company - Agricultural Equipment Division One John Deere Place Moline, IL. 61265 =========== The Korvan site was interesting, although their machinery is focused on raspberries, blueberries and grapes. My 17 yr old son was looking over my shoulder as I looked at the site last night. I asked him why he thought this company had nothing to pick strawberries. He knew why, and he's as much a gardener as I am an astronaut, so I'm sure you'll figure it out, too. I like blueberries & cranberries. maybe we could import the berries rather than the berry pickers? We already do, but more for the juice & preserves market than for fresh use. cheers Bob |
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#165
Posted to alt.home.repair
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote:
Sorry, but I don't think anything I or anyone would say would get through to you. Just lock your door and keep the world out. Try me. You might be surprised. What is "bad" and "hateful" and "fearful" about wanting to keep criminals out of our country? Do you support letting criminals in, without trying to keep them out? -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
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#166
Posted to alt.home.repair
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote: Sorry, but I don't think anything I or anyone would say would get through to you. Just lock your door and keep the world out. Try me. You might be surprised. What is "bad" and "hateful" and "fearful" about wanting to keep criminals out of our country? Do you support letting criminals in, without trying to keep them out? Most people who use that line about keeping criminals out, really mean that they think that anyone coming from (Fill the name of a country) or does not speak English with a US accent, or has a different color skin, is or is likely to be a criminal. They tend to fear that somehow their culture will be corrupted. That is fear, and hate, and it is also not true. Once you answered my question about putting up the same kind of restrictions between states and cities with an agreement that changed the whole dynamic. You do sound fearful, but I would not say hateful. I fear sorry for those who live with such fear, it is also scary to me that someone might have that much fear. -- Joseph Meehan Dia duit |
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#167
Posted to alt.home.repair
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
Joseph Meehan wrote:
Doug Miller wrote: In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote: Sorry, but I don't think anything I or anyone would say would get through to you. Just lock your door and keep the world out. Try me. You might be surprised. What is "bad" and "hateful" and "fearful" about wanting to keep criminals out of our country? Do you support letting criminals in, without trying to keep them out? Most people who use that line about keeping criminals out, really mean that they think that anyone coming from (Fill the name of a country) or does not speak English with a US accent, or has a different color skin, is or is likely to be a criminal. They tend to fear that somehow their culture will be corrupted. That is fear, and hate, and it is also not true. Once you answered my question about putting up the same kind of restrictions between states and cities with an agreement that changed the whole dynamic. You do sound fearful, but I would not say hateful. I fear sorry for those who live with such fear, it is also scary to me that someone might have that much fear. Here here.. The VAST majority of immigrants, from whatever country they come from, from whatever skin color they have, whatever cultural, social, religious, or economic background they come from, arrive in the USA full of HOPE, ready to Work, to send money back home to help their families. They pay rent (maybe sharing the rent with several others), buy food, buy clothes (maybe used clothes), buy cars, buy gas, buy cellphones, buy telephones, buy TVs.. In 30 years some of these become WEALTHY CITIZENS!! Do we exclude these EAGER immigrants because of a very very few rotten apples??? Terrorists and criminals will get in REGARDLESS of what we do, UNLESS we establish a RIGID border with massive screening of all visitors to the USA, and massive screening of anyone who wants to leave the USA. It will take WEEKS to get an entry visa, and weeks to get an exit visa. Can we spell POLICE STATE?? The cultural diversity that these new immigrants bring is enormous. The additions to the gene pool also benefit us in the long term as these new immigrants marry and have children with the existing residents (not of their ethnic group) In short, although there are problems related to INTENSE immigration in some areas, the benefits to society overall are positive. |
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#168
Posted to alt.home.repair
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in
: Jim Yanik wrote: "Joseph Meehan" wrote in : moncheri wrote: Joseph Meehan wrote: Jim Yanik wrote: "Joseph Meehan" wrote in : Let's back up a little. Why do you want those immigration laws that keep out others. Every country has their own form of immigration laws. People come here for a chance to better themselves but most do it legally. I lived in Central America for 1 year decades ago and even they have immigration laws. By the way I was there legally. Talk to the legal immigrants and you will find they are every bit as angry as the rest of us. They feel it isn't right to reward the law breakers by giving them amnesty, they feel anger that those are the same people who are causing the single largest strain on America's economy in medical, educational and legal cost which by the way the legal immigrants help pay for. I live and work among a large hispanic population and have absolutely no problem with any one I know. However, every day I see how our system is being overwhelmed by the sheer size of the growing load being placed on it. I can see our system reaching a breaking point in the not so distant future if we don't begin applying the laws already on the books. I live in a small city close to a large city. Our school, fire police etc are all being stretched. Should be put up a fence and limit those who can come in? Just to make sure that no one comes and stays, we would also need to limit visitors as well. Do you think this is a good idea? The state also has problems so what are your thoughts about doing the same for the state as well? That is NOT the equivalent of National borders.Get a clue. Why should it be different? If it is needed or a good idea at a National border, why should it not be a good ideal or needed at a local boarder? As I said;get a clue. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
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#169
Posted to alt.home.repair
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
Robert Gammon wrote in
. com: Here here.. The VAST majority of immigrants, from whatever country they come from, from whatever skin color they have, whatever cultural, social, religious, or economic background they come from, arrive in the USA full of HOPE, ready to Work, to send money back home to help their families. They pay rent (maybe sharing the rent with several others), buy food, buy clothes (maybe used clothes), buy cars, buy gas, buy cellphones, buy telephones, buy TVs.. In 30 years some of these become WEALTHY CITIZENS!! Oh,so if they break the law we should just ignore that? Sorry,no. Do we exclude these EAGER immigrants because of a very very few rotten apples??? Law-abiding immigrants will wait to get in legally,and we SHOULD exclude known criminals,seriously ill,and those carrying prohibited materials. Terrorists and criminals will get in REGARDLESS of what we do, OH,thus we should do nothing???? UNLESS we establish a RIGID border with massive screening of all visitors to the USA, and massive screening of anyone who wants to leave the USA. It will take WEEKS to get an entry visa, and weeks to get an exit visa. OK by me.(BTW,leaving should be no problem;getting back in would be.) Can we spell POLICE STATE?? Hardly the same thing as a police state.It's called "Border Security",and doesn't affect what goes on inside the country. You are just jumping to extremes. The cultural diversity that these new immigrants bring is enormous. The effects of any diseases and crime they bring is enormous,too. The additions to the gene pool also benefit us in the long term as these new immigrants marry and have children with the existing residents (not of their ethnic group) In short, although there are problems related to INTENSE immigration in some areas, the benefits to society overall are positive. LEGAL immigration,yes,but we are not discussing that. ILLEGAL immigration is not positive. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
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#170
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
wrote in message ... On 4 May 2006 13:39:01 -0700, "moncheri" wrote: A comparison such as the one you have made is warped on so many levels it is difficult to know where to begin. I have heard of anyone recommending separating the families, stealing their belongings, torturing them, using them as human guinea pigs or killing them. The only thing I have heard recommended and what I would like to see done is for the ILLEGAL immigrants to be sent back home or go through the legal process to become US citizens. No more! No Less! Are you going to compensate them for homes, cars and other such property that they have accumulated here? Are you going to give any special consideration for families you split up because some members are "legal" and some aren't? How exactly are you going to "round up" these "illegals" without racial profiling and demanding to see their "papers". The parallels are not all that hard to draw. I wonder if kids whose parents are sent abroad might end up getting into trouble and becoming a burden on society in a different way. Actually, I don't wonder. I know. |
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#171
Posted to alt.home.repair
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
Jim Yanik wrote:
Robert Gammon wrote in . com: Here here.. The VAST majority of immigrants, from whatever country they come from, from whatever skin color they have, whatever cultural, social, religious, or economic background they come from, arrive in the USA full of HOPE, ready to Work, to send money back home to help their families. They pay rent (maybe sharing the rent with several others), buy food, buy clothes (maybe used clothes), buy cars, buy gas, buy cellphones, buy telephones, buy TVs.. In 30 years some of these become WEALTHY CITIZENS!! Oh,so if they break the law we should just ignore that? Sorry,no. We don't IF they break the law, any more than we ignore it if you break the law. Yes, those who have already come here and are now not legally here have broken a law. I ask you, have you ever broken a law? Have you ever dropped a piece of paper on the street or gone one mph over the speed limit? We don't lock you up when you speed 1 mph over the speed limit, they should be treated the same. Do we exclude these EAGER immigrants because of a very very few rotten apples??? Law-abiding immigrants will wait to get in legally,and we SHOULD exclude known criminals,seriously ill,and those carrying prohibited materials. So we let in any who want in with out limits if they have not been convicted of breaking a law. Let's apply the same criteria to you. You may only leave your home town if you can prove you have never committed a crime. OK. Better yet let's keep you in your own home. Terrorists and criminals will get in REGARDLESS of what we do, OH,thus we should do nothing???? I do believe we do look for and stop known terrorist. Why don't you give it a try. Go across the border and then try coming back wearing a sign saying "I am a terrorist." UNLESS we establish a RIGID border with massive screening of all visitors to the USA, and massive screening of anyone who wants to leave the USA. It will take WEEKS to get an entry visa, and weeks to get an exit visa. OK by me.(BTW,leaving should be no problem;getting back in would be.) Can we spell POLICE STATE?? Hardly the same thing as a police state.It's called "Border Security",and doesn't affect what goes on inside the country. You are just jumping to extremes. If it is good enough for our national borders, lets make sure we apply the same thing to our state and city borders. BTW do you have any idea how many more people were killed and injured by drunk drivers since 9-11 than have been killed by terrorist? Let's kick all drunk drivers out of the country and not let any back in. The cultural diversity that these new immigrants bring is enormous. The effects of any diseases and crime they bring is enormous,too. Tell us about all this crime and diseases. The additions to the gene pool also benefit us in the long term as these new immigrants marry and have children with the existing residents (not of their ethnic group) In short, although there are problems related to INTENSE immigration in some areas, the benefits to society overall are positive. LEGAL immigration,yes,but we are not discussing that. ILLEGAL immigration is not positive. Right, we should make it all legal. The problem is the law, not immigrants. -- Joseph Meehan Dia duit |
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#172
Posted to alt.home.repair
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
Jim Yanik wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in : Jim Yanik wrote: "Joseph Meehan" wrote in : moncheri wrote: Joseph Meehan wrote: Jim Yanik wrote: "Joseph Meehan" wrote in : Let's back up a little. Why do you want those immigration laws that keep out others. Every country has their own form of immigration laws. People come here for a chance to better themselves but most do it legally. I lived in Central America for 1 year decades ago and even they have immigration laws. By the way I was there legally. Talk to the legal immigrants and you will find they are every bit as angry as the rest of us. They feel it isn't right to reward the law breakers by giving them amnesty, they feel anger that those are the same people who are causing the single largest strain on America's economy in medical, educational and legal cost which by the way the legal immigrants help pay for. I live and work among a large hispanic population and have absolutely no problem with any one I know. However, every day I see how our system is being overwhelmed by the sheer size of the growing load being placed on it. I can see our system reaching a breaking point in the not so distant future if we don't begin applying the laws already on the books. I live in a small city close to a large city. Our school, fire police etc are all being stretched. Should be put up a fence and limit those who can come in? Just to make sure that no one comes and stays, we would also need to limit visitors as well. Do you think this is a good idea? The state also has problems so what are your thoughts about doing the same for the state as well? That is NOT the equivalent of National borders.Get a clue. Why should it be different? If it is needed or a good idea at a National border, why should it not be a good ideal or needed at a local boarder? As I said;get a clue. In other words, you don't know. Why do you think one is OK and one is not. -- Joseph Meehan Dia duit |
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#174
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote:
Doug Miller wrote: In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote: Sorry, but I don't think anything I or anyone would say would get through to you. Just lock your door and keep the world out. Try me. You might be surprised. What is "bad" and "hateful" and "fearful" about wanting to keep criminals out of our country? Do you support letting criminals in, without trying to keep them out? Most people who use that line about keeping criminals out, really mean that they think that anyone coming from (Fill the name of a country) or does not speak English with a US accent, or has a different color skin, is or is likely to be a criminal. They tend to fear that somehow their culture will be corrupted. That is fear, and hate, and it is also not true. Oh, you're a mind reader now? Look here, pal, don't presume to tell me what I think. I couldn't care less if the people coming here are a different color from me, or speak a different language from me -- all I care about is that they come here *legally*, obey the law, get a job, and raise their kids as *Americans*. That's why we need some form of control over who gets to come in: to make sure that we keep out those with a criminal history, and the chronically unemployed. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
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#175
Posted to alt.home.repair
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote: Robert Gammon wrote in . com: Here here.. The VAST majority of immigrants, from whatever country they come from, from whatever skin color they have, whatever cultural, social, religious, or economic background they come from, arrive in the USA full of HOPE, ready to Work, to send money back home to help their families. They pay rent (maybe sharing the rent with several others), buy food, buy clothes (maybe used clothes), buy cars, buy gas, buy cellphones, buy telephones, buy TVs.. In 30 years some of these become WEALTHY CITIZENS!! Oh,so if they break the law we should just ignore that? Sorry,no. We don't IF they break the law, any more than we ignore it if you break the law. Sorry, but that's _not_true_. Most persons arrested for misdemeanors are released on bond. The problem is that the illegal aliens have false IDs. Release Jose on bond, and an hour later, he has a new false ID. Jose is now Carlos, and Jose disappears forever. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
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#176
Posted to alt.home.repair
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
In article , Jim Yanik wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in m: Jim Yanik wrote: "Joseph Meehan" wrote in : moncheri wrote: Joseph Meehan wrote: Jim Yanik wrote: "Joseph Meehan" wrote in : Let's back up a little. Why do you want those immigration laws that keep out others. Every country has their own form of immigration laws. People come here for a chance to better themselves but most do it legally. I lived in Central America for 1 year decades ago and even they have immigration laws. By the way I was there legally. Talk to the legal immigrants and you will find they are every bit as angry as the rest of us. They feel it isn't right to reward the law breakers by giving them amnesty, they feel anger that those are the same people who are causing the single largest strain on America's economy in medical, educational and legal cost which by the way the legal immigrants help pay for. I live and work among a large hispanic population and have absolutely no problem with any one I know. However, every day I see how our system is being overwhelmed by the sheer size of the growing load being placed on it. I can see our system reaching a breaking point in the not so distant future if we don't begin applying the laws already on the books. I live in a small city close to a large city. Our school, fire police etc are all being stretched. Should be put up a fence and limit those who can come in? Just to make sure that no one comes and stays, we would also need to limit visitors as well. Do you think this is a good idea? The state also has problems so what are your thoughts about doing the same for the state as well? That is NOT the equivalent of National borders.Get a clue. Why should it be different? If it is needed or a good idea at a National border, why should it not be a good ideal or needed at a local boarder? As I said;get a clue. Actually, Jim, I have to agree with Joseph he if a state wants to control its borders, and prevent criminals from entering from other states, it should have every right to do so. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
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#177
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
om... Actually, Jim, I have to agree with Joseph he if a state wants to control its borders, and prevent criminals from entering from other states, it should have every right to do so. Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) That would turn free commerce into a train wreck. |
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#178
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote: Jim Yanik wrote: Robert Gammon wrote in . com: Here here.. The VAST majority of immigrants, from whatever country they come from, from whatever skin color they have, whatever cultural, social, religious, or economic background they come from, arrive in the USA full of HOPE, ready to Work, to send money back home to help their families. They pay rent (maybe sharing the rent with several others), buy food, buy clothes (maybe used clothes), buy cars, buy gas, buy cellphones, buy telephones, buy TVs.. In 30 years some of these become WEALTHY CITIZENS!! Oh,so if they break the law we should just ignore that? Sorry,no. We don't IF they break the law, any more than we ignore it if you break the law. Sorry, but that's _not_true_. Most persons arrested for misdemeanors are released on bond. The problem is that the illegal aliens have false IDs. And you know this how? How is it any different for an "illegal" alien (sounds like a space show) to have a false ID as it would be for a US born criminal to have a false ID? Release Jose on bond, and an hour later, he has a new false ID. Jose is now Carlos, and Jose disappears forever. Release Doug on bond and an hour later he is now Frank. -- Joseph Meehan Dia duit |
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#179
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote: Doug Miller wrote: In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote: Sorry, but I don't think anything I or anyone would say would get through to you. Just lock your door and keep the world out. Try me. You might be surprised. What is "bad" and "hateful" and "fearful" about wanting to keep criminals out of our country? Do you support letting criminals in, without trying to keep them out? Most people who use that line about keeping criminals out, really mean that they think that anyone coming from (Fill the name of a country) or does not speak English with a US accent, or has a different color skin, is or is likely to be a criminal. They tend to fear that somehow their culture will be corrupted. That is fear, and hate, and it is also not true. Oh, you're a mind reader now? Look here, pal, don't presume to tell me what I think. Then don't miss-read what I write. I did not say what you or any specific individual think. While I could have worded that more clearly, but it is true that of those who I know what they think, because they have told me, it is true. I couldn't care less if the people coming here are a different color from me, or speak a different language from me -- all I care about is that they come here *legally*, obey the law, get a job, and raise their kids as *Americans*. That's why we need some form of control over who gets to come in: to make sure that we keep out those with a criminal history, and the chronically unemployed. -- Joseph Meehan Dia duit |
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#181
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
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#182
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
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#183
Posted to misc.consumers,alt.home.repair
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
Doug Kanter wrote:
"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message ... Doug Kanter wrote: "George E. Cawthon" wrote in message ... Doug Kanter wrote: "George E. Cawthon" wrote in message news
Doug Kanter wrote: ((Snipped)) No to the last. The reason is probably economics, cheaper to pay labor than to develop, buy, and maintain machines. Also the way they are grown would probably have to change and could increase costs. It certainly isn't because the strawberries are delicate. Recent ones that I ate were nearly as hard as apples. Farmers don't develop the machinery, and farm equipment manufacturers don't pay farm laborers. But, never mind. I'm doing some research that should interest you. I'll get back to you later about which crops are NOW harvested by machines (or not). That a specious argument (statement?). Of course farmers don't develop the machinery, but they buy the machinery and they pay the farm laborers. A machinery maker isn't going to develop a machine that is too expensive for farmers to buy. You'd be terrified if you know what a typical corn harvesting setup costs. But, small farmers manage to buy them. Only if I had to buy it would I be terrified? The cost of equipment to just prepare the ground for planting is high, so is everything else. But of course that has nothing to do with anything. OTOH, no business man has hundreds of thousands of dollars in capital if he has an annual profit of $20,000. Harvesting equipment ranges from very small and relatively cheap equipment that is labor intensive to huge machines that cost a fortune. Somewhere in the "small farmer" category most do not own the harvesting equipment but hire harvesting crews. Well, that's a general statement that ends up being extreme. Nobody harvests cattle corn by hand, unless we're talking about an incredibly tiny dairy operation producing boutique cheese for fancy restaurants, or some kid grooming a cow for a state fair competition. Eliminating these exceptions, corn operations will always have some sort of trick machinery, and at the top end is equipment that checks the moisture content of the corn and sorts it in an appropriate fashion. What is extreme? You need to be specific or I can't understand. The part about the capital? Not much of a businessman if he has $400,000 tied up and the stock market on average would provide $40,000. Hell it would make much sense if he had only $200,000 and could get $20,000 on the stock market. Beside, he spend most of his time in bed. Now a guy that just wants to play farmer often gets into financial problems and his family farm (which he had for 5-6 year) gets repossessed because he bought all kinds of equipment he couldn't afford. But that isn't much of businessman. What is cattle corn? do you mean silage, or do you mean corn kernels for feed lots? Very different types of harvesting and handling. Or did you mean extreme about hiring the harvesting? If so, well, I won't say more. Farming is a business, whether it is growing some crop, or a cow-calf operation, or whatever, |
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#184
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote:
Doug Miller wrote: In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote: Doug Miller wrote: In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote: Sorry, but I don't think anything I or anyone would say would get through to you. Just lock your door and keep the world out. Try me. You might be surprised. What is "bad" and "hateful" and "fearful" about wanting to keep criminals out of our country? Do you support letting criminals in, without trying to keep them out? Most people who use that line about keeping criminals out, really mean that they think that anyone coming from (Fill the name of a country) or does not speak English with a US accent, or has a different color skin, is or is likely to be a criminal. They tend to fear that somehow their culture will be corrupted. That is fear, and hate, and it is also not true. Oh, you're a mind reader now? Look here, pal, don't presume to tell me what I think. Then don't miss-read what I write. I did not say what you or any specific individual think. No, you just implied that I think like that too. While I could have worded that more clearly, but it is true that of those who I know what they think, because they have told me, it is true. And therefore it must be true of anyone else who expresses the same viewpoint, eh? Like I said -- don't presume to tell me what I think. I couldn't care less if the people coming here are a different color from me, or speak a different language from me -- all I care about is that they come here *legally*, obey the law, get a job, and raise their kids as *Americans*. That's why we need some form of control over who gets to come in: to make sure that we keep out those with a criminal history, and the chronically unemployed. Read the above paragraph as many times as you need to, until you understand why we need to control who's coming in -- and why we can't control who's coming in unless we _know_who_they_are_. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
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#185
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote:
Doug Miller wrote: In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote: Jim Yanik wrote: Robert Gammon wrote in . com: Here here.. The VAST majority of immigrants, from whatever country they come from, from whatever skin color they have, whatever cultural, social, religious, or economic background they come from, arrive in the USA full of HOPE, ready to Work, to send money back home to help their families. They pay rent (maybe sharing the rent with several others), buy food, buy clothes (maybe used clothes), buy cars, buy gas, buy cellphones, buy telephones, buy TVs.. In 30 years some of these become WEALTHY CITIZENS!! Oh,so if they break the law we should just ignore that? Sorry,no. We don't IF they break the law, any more than we ignore it if you break the law. Sorry, but that's _not_true_. Most persons arrested for misdemeanors are released on bond. The problem is that the illegal aliens have false IDs. And you know this how? Figure it out for yourself -- you can't get a social security number unless you're a citizen or a legal immigrant. You can't get a driver's license without an SSN. Therefore, if an illegal alien has a driver's license, either it was fraudulently obtained (through use of a false SSN) or it's completely phony altogether. You also can't get a job, legally, unless you're a citizen or a legal immigrant with a work visa -- no job equals no work ID either. So what ID do they have? How is it any different for an "illegal" alien (sounds like a space show) to have a false ID as it would be for a US born criminal to have a false ID? The difference is that the illegal alien is more likely to have false identification, because his very presence here is a crime that he needs to conceal. A native-born criminal still has the legal right to be present in the US, and has no particular need of false ID just to exist. Release Jose on bond, and an hour later, he has a new false ID. Jose is now Carlos, and Jose disappears forever. Release Doug on bond and an hour later he is now Frank. No, because I have a house and cars in my name, credit cards, bank accounts, utilities, the whole nine yards -- in short, many years of an established, true identity, that I can't just walk away from. Definitely not true of the typical illegal alien. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
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#186
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
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#187
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
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#188
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote: Doug Miller wrote: In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote: Jim Yanik wrote: Robert Gammon wrote in . com: Here here.. The VAST majority of immigrants, from whatever country they come from, from whatever skin color they have, whatever cultural, social, religious, or economic background they come from, arrive in the USA full of HOPE, ready to Work, to send money back home to help their families. They pay rent (maybe sharing the rent with several others), buy food, buy clothes (maybe used clothes), buy cars, buy gas, buy cellphones, buy telephones, buy TVs.. In 30 years some of these become WEALTHY CITIZENS!! Oh,so if they break the law we should just ignore that? Sorry,no. We don't IF they break the law, any more than we ignore it if you break the law. Sorry, but that's _not_true_. Most persons arrested for misdemeanors are released on bond. The problem is that the illegal aliens have false IDs. And you know this how? Figure it out for yourself -- you can't get a social security number unless you're a citizen or a legal immigrant. I don't believe that is true. You can't get a driver's license without an SSN. That I know is not true today. Therefore, if an illegal alien has a driver's license, either it was fraudulently obtained (through use of a false SSN) or it's completely phony altogether. You also can't get a job, legally, unless you're a citizen or a legal immigrant with a work visa -- no job equals no work ID either. Maybe, but perhaps you are confusing the issue. Maybe the problem is that law. So what ID do they have? How is it any different for an "illegal" alien (sounds like a space show) to have a false ID as it would be for a US born criminal to have a false ID? The difference is that the illegal alien is more likely to have false identification, because his very presence here is a crime that he needs to conceal. A native-born criminal still has the legal right to be present in the US, and has no particular need of false ID just to exist. Take this another step. Why is the problem? It is because someone is a immigrant who can is facing legal barriers but has never committed a crime against another person or their property, or what is it. If it is crimes against property and people, then you need to look at US citizens who commit far more crime in this country that immigrants who have not become citizens yet. Release Jose on bond, and an hour later, he has a new false ID. Jose is now Carlos, and Jose disappears forever. Release Doug on bond and an hour later he is now Frank. No, because I have a house and cars in my name, credit cards, bank accounts, utilities, the whole nine yards -- in short, many years of an established, true identity, that I can't just walk away from. Definitely not true of the typical illegal alien. Look at the US born criminals in this country and say that. You have not provided evidence that undocumented immigrants with the type of real crimes we worry about. -- Joseph Meehan Dia duit |
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#189
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
Jim Yanik wrote:...
I note that now many illegals are bringing illegal drugs along with them to help defray the cost of their being smuggled into the US. IOW,mules. Really! So if we were to open the boarders then we could stop this kind of drug trade. -- Joseph Meehan Dia duit |
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#190
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote: Doug Miller wrote: In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote: Doug Miller wrote: In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote: Sorry, but I don't think anything I or anyone would say would get through to you. Just lock your door and keep the world out. Try me. You might be surprised. What is "bad" and "hateful" and "fearful" about wanting to keep criminals out of our country? Do you support letting criminals in, without trying to keep them out? Most people who use that line about keeping criminals out, really mean that they think that anyone coming from (Fill the name of a country) or does not speak English with a US accent, or has a different color skin, is or is likely to be a criminal. They tend to fear that somehow their culture will be corrupted. That is fear, and hate, and it is also not true. Oh, you're a mind reader now? Look here, pal, don't presume to tell me what I think. Then don't miss-read what I write. I did not say what you or any specific individual think. No, you just implied that I think like that too. While I could have worded that more clearly, but it is true that of those who I know what they think, because they have told me, it is true. And therefore it must be true of anyone else who expresses the same viewpoint, eh? Like I said -- don't presume to tell me what I think. I couldn't care less if the people coming here are a different color from me, or speak a different language from me -- all I care about is that they come here *legally*, obey the law, get a job, and raise their kids as *Americans*. That's why we need some form of control over who gets to come in: to make sure that we keep out those with a criminal history, and the chronically unemployed. Read the above paragraph as many times as you need to, until you understand why we need to control who's coming in -- and why we can't control who's coming in unless we _know_who_they_are_. I will accept that we need to provide that kind of boarder security when we establish that same kind of security at every state, city and community line. -- Joseph Meehan Dia duit |
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#191
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
Ok, we all accept that the act of crossing the border without permission
is an illegal act. The question is, what do we do about it? Once here, very very few EVER do anything to hurt anyone or anyone's property. The number that smuggle in drugs, incests (knowingly or unknowingly), disease, etc. is also quite small. Drug smuggling is a BIG time business and the small amounts that a single person could carry across is not worth very much to the folks that move tons of stuff a year on aircraft and boats. So again, the question is what do we do about it??? There are those who argue for IMMEDIATE deportation of ALL those who violate immigration law. The US Border Patrol puts hundreds of people a day if not thousands of people a day back across the border. The borders are LONG and sparsely populated. Once here, it is DIFFICULT to find the undocumented immigrant as they SPREAD OUT all across the USA. This will be an EXPENSIVE process, just to collect and export the undocumented workers. There are those who argue for complete amnesty as these are, by and large, economic refugees who make a large and valuable contribution to the USA economy. Amnesty has a price as it then says OK, we don't care who comes across our borders. And we have the status quo. That is, the US Border Patrol catches those that it can and deports them. It raids businesses that have a history of using undocumented workers, imposing fines and exporting the undocumented workers. They try to get more employees and a bigger budget from Congress, and depending on the whims of the political process, they get it or not. |
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#192
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
"Robert Gammon" wrote in message
t... Drug smuggling is a BIG time business and the small amounts that a single person could carry across is not worth very much to the folks that move tons of stuff a year on aircraft and boats. They'd be nuts to carry drugs, even small amounts. The way things are now, if they get caught coming across the border, they're sent back with a slap on the wrist. They know full well that if they had drugs, they'd be in much deeper trouble. And we have the status quo. That is, the US Border Patrol catches those that it can and deports them. It raids businesses that have a history of using undocumented workers, imposing fines and exporting the undocumented workers. They try to get more employees and a bigger budget from Congress, and depending on the whims of the political process, they get it or not. Which "act" gives politicians a bigger erection? Waging pointless wars, or funding the border patrol? Oh yeah...it's the war, for sure. Next best thing to Viagra. |
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#193
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
In article , wrote:
On Sat, 06 May 2006 02:42:54 GMT, (Doug Miller) wrote: You can't get a driver's license without an SSN. I never showed a SS card to get a license, Florida or Maryland. I am not even sure they asked (or Fla would have known I already had a Md license) In fact I have not had a SS card since 1963 when I lost my wallet. Nobody has ever asked to see it. I have opened dozens of bank accounts, brokerage accounts, formed 2 corporations, bought 3 holmes, bought and registered at least 20 vehicles and had a dozen employers including the enlisting in the Coast Guard and the Navy. I know I never showed a SS card because I never had it. I didn't say you had to show the card. I said you had to have the number. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
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#194
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote:
Doug Miller wrote: In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote: Doug Miller wrote: In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote: Jim Yanik wrote: Robert Gammon wrote in . com: Here here.. The VAST majority of immigrants, from whatever country they come from, from whatever skin color they have, whatever cultural, social, religious, or economic background they come from, arrive in the USA full of HOPE, ready to Work, to send money back home to help their families. They pay rent (maybe sharing the rent with several others), buy food, buy clothes (maybe used clothes), buy cars, buy gas, buy cellphones, buy telephones, buy TVs.. In 30 years some of these become WEALTHY CITIZENS!! Oh,so if they break the law we should just ignore that? Sorry,no. We don't IF they break the law, any more than we ignore it if you break the law. Sorry, but that's _not_true_. Most persons arrested for misdemeanors are released on bond. The problem is that the illegal aliens have false IDs. And you know this how? Figure it out for yourself -- you can't get a social security number unless you're a citizen or a legal immigrant. I don't believe that is true. OK, fine, you don't believe it, check it out for yourself. You can't get a driver's license without an SSN. That I know is not true today. Guess again. Therefore, if an illegal alien has a driver's license, either it was fraudulently obtained (through use of a false SSN) or it's completely phony altogether. You also can't get a job, legally, unless you're a citizen or a legal immigrant with a work visa -- no job equals no work ID either. Maybe, but perhaps you are confusing the issue. Maybe the problem is that law. No, the problem is that we have a vast ocean of people pouring in here, with no verification at all of who they are, or what they're going to do when they get here. If they don't have a criminal history, and aren't going to be a drain on society (i.e. get a legal job and pay taxes, instead of being on welfare), let 'em come. But we have to know who they are before we can determine that. So what ID do they have? How is it any different for an "illegal" alien (sounds like a space show) to have a false ID as it would be for a US born criminal to have a false ID? The difference is that the illegal alien is more likely to have false identification, because his very presence here is a crime that he needs to conceal. A native-born criminal still has the legal right to be present in the US, and has no particular need of false ID just to exist. Take this another step. Why is the problem? It is because someone is a immigrant who can is facing legal barriers but has never committed a crime against another person or their property, or what is it. You're still missing the point. Maybe the guy really hasn't ever committed a crime -- but without positive identification of who's coming in, YOU DON'T KNOW THAT. If it is crimes against property and people, then you need to look at US citizens who commit far more crime in this country that immigrants who have not become citizens yet. Again -- without reliable identification, YOU DON'T KNOW THAT. Release Jose on bond, and an hour later, he has a new false ID. Jose is now Carlos, and Jose disappears forever. Release Doug on bond and an hour later he is now Frank. No, because I have a house and cars in my name, credit cards, bank accounts, utilities, the whole nine yards -- in short, many years of an established, true identity, that I can't just walk away from. Definitely not true of the typical illegal alien. Look at the US born criminals in this country and say that. You have not provided evidence that undocumented immigrants with the type of real crimes we worry about. And you're not paying attention to what's going on around you. It must be nice to live in such a sheltered world. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
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#195
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
In article , Robert Gammon wrote:
Ok, we all accept that the act of crossing the border without permission is an illegal act. The question is, what do we do about it? Once here, very very few EVER do anything to hurt anyone or anyone's property. Nonsense. All of us are paying higher auto insurance rates because of the large number of illegal aliens driving without any insurance. Or licenses. They bring their third-world driving habits with them, too, resulting in higher accident rates. The number that smuggle in drugs, incests (knowingly or unknowingly), disease, etc. is also quite small. You must live in a small town. Drug smuggling is a BIG time business and the small amounts that a single person could carry across is not worth very much to the folks that move tons of stuff a year on aircraft and boats. You haven't thought that one through very far, have you? Sure, one guy can't carry very much on his person. But how much can he put in the trunk of his car? Now multiply that by a couple million times a year. So again, the question is what do we do about it??? If they obey the law while they're here, nothing. And that means *all* of our laws, including having a valid license, registration, and insurance before driving _one_inch_ on a public road, and paying taxes on their wages just like the rest of us do. Those that break the law should be deported the instant we figure out where they came from. There are those who argue for IMMEDIATE deportation of ALL those who violate immigration law. The US Border Patrol puts hundreds of people a day if not thousands of people a day back across the border. The borders are LONG and sparsely populated. That's why we need a fence along that border. Once here, it is DIFFICULT to find the undocumented immigrant as they SPREAD OUT all across the USA. This will be an EXPENSIVE process, just to collect and export the undocumented workers. See above -- as long as they're obeying the law, leave them alone. There are those who argue for complete amnesty as these are, by and large, economic refugees who make a large and valuable contribution to the USA economy. Nonsense. They're a net *drain* on the economy. Measure the amount of social services that the illegals consume. Look at the hospitals in California that are closing because they can't afford to keep treating people that can't pay, but aren't allowed under Federal law to turn them away. Amnesty has a price as it then says OK, we don't care who comes across our borders. Right, that's why it's a bad idea. It didn't work in the 1980s, and it won't work now. And we have the status quo. That is, the US Border Patrol catches those that it can and deports them. It raids businesses that have a history of using undocumented workers, imposing fines and exporting the undocumented workers. They try to get more employees and a bigger budget from Congress, and depending on the whims of the political process, they get it or not. *That* is the right place to start: *enforce* the laws already on the books that prohibit hiring illegal aliens. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
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#196
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
In article , mm wrote:
On Wed, 03 May 2006 10:57:56 GMT, (Doug Miller) wrote: In article , The Real Bev wrote: Doug Miller wrote: mm wrote: I doubt illegals commit as many crimes per person as most other subgroups in the US, because they know if they are arrested, they'll likely be deported. Yeah, right. somebody wrote: and less-crowded emergency rooms and the costs of giving them free medical treatment,among many other services that the US has to supply illegals. It varies. In some places it's hard for illegals to get any other aid except emergency rooms. Bull****. What's stopping them (or anyone else) from just going to the doctor? Doctors demand money or insurance. You never saw those discreet little signs saying "It is customary to pay for services when rendered"? A simple 5-minute visit is $100. God help you if you need tests. The doctors don't have to take you if you can't -- or won't -- pay. Hospitals do. The point is, that's a problem for *poor* people -- not a problem specifically for illegal aliens. It is a problem for all poor people but that's *not* the point. The point was a discussion of illegal immigrants. Look at the subject line and all the posts prior to this one. It's important and it bothers you and many of us, but it's not the point. You're still missing the point. The person to whom I was responding said that it was hard for illegals to get treatment anywhere other than emergency rooms. And that just isn't true. An illegal with money (or insurance) can get treated at any doctor's office just as easily any citizen with money (or insurance) can. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
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#197
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:... I note that now many illegals are bringing illegal drugs along with them to help defray the cost of their being smuggled into the US. IOW,mules. Really! So if we were to open the boarders then we could stop this kind of drug trade. Think it through... If we open the borders, then the ones who are now bringing drugs across to pay for their passage can just as easily -- probably *more* easily -- continue to bring drugs across, this time to sell, and *keep* the money instead of having to give it to the people who smuggle them across. In other words, open borders = dramatically *increased* incentive to smuggle drugs into the country. And dramatically increased *opportunity* to do so. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
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#198
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. com... In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote: Jim Yanik wrote:... I note that now many illegals are bringing illegal drugs along with them to help defray the cost of their being smuggled into the US. IOW,mules. Really! So if we were to open the boarders then we could stop this kind of drug trade. Think it through... If we open the borders, then the ones who are now bringing drugs across to pay for their passage can just as easily -- probably *more* easily -- continue to bring drugs across, this time to sell, and *keep* the money instead of having to give it to the people who smuggle them across. In other words, open borders = dramatically *increased* incentive to smuggle drugs into the country. And dramatically increased *opportunity* to do so. Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) Why are you so focused on drugs? There's little or nothing we can do to stop them. Where there's demand, someone will appear with a supply. Prohibition didn't work. Neither does the "war on drugs". |
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#199
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
Doug Miller wrote:
... No, the problem is that we have a vast ocean of people pouring in here, with no verification at all of who they are, or what they're going to do when they get here. If they don't have a criminal history, and aren't going to be a drain on society (i.e. get a legal job and pay taxes, instead of being on welfare), let 'em come. But we have to know who they are before we can determine that. I see fast oceans of people pouring into the shopping mall. I guess we should start demanding verification that they don't have a criminal history (forget the part about being innocent before proven guilty) .... You're still missing the point. Maybe the guy really hasn't ever committed a crime -- but without positive identification of who's coming in, YOU DON'T KNOW THAT. So you are considering them all guilty until proven otherwise. It sounds like you live a miserable life suspecting everyone. I guess I just agree with being innocent until proven guilty and I also believe that people deserve a second chance. I also believe that all men and women are created equal no matter where they were born. .... You have not provided evidence that undocumented immigrants with the type of real crimes we worry about. And you're not paying attention to what's going on around you. It must be nice to live in such a sheltered world. Where is your evidence? -- Joseph Meehan Dia duit |
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#200
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A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
Joseph Meehan wrote:
You can't get a driver's license without an SSN. That I know is not true today. Drivers licenses have become a national ID card. All of the states must get your SSN before they will issue or renew a license. |
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