Doug Kanter wrote:
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
.. .
Jim Yanik wrote:

....

It's anti-CRIME.
You folks seem to want to excuse it.

Please excuse me if you have already answered this, I have not
finished reading all the response, but have you ever broken the law?

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit


Mind if I define your question, in case "someone" tries to slither
past it? Doing 36 mph in a 35 mph speed zone is breaking the law.

I don't mind at all.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Just Bob wrote:
...

If a person from Jamaica for example wants to even VISIT the US they
have to have a sponsor. Someone that is responsible for them and
their actions among other things. Does anyone know how hard it is for
one of them to move here? This is no problem because there is a
fence that works. There should be a fence that works the same for
everyone that wants to come here to better themselves. Hey, I was
born poor so what special consideration do I get? If you are born in
Mexico then too bad. No free ride.

Why should it be made so hard?


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Jim Yanik wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

...

Many of them commit other crimes as well: driving without a license,
driving
without insurance, driving with a false license, registering to
vote... Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)


Bull****. Every driver in this country has broken a traffic law,
every single time they get in the car.




Breaking a traffic law is nowhere near as bad as driving without a
license, registration,or auto insurance.
Your attempt at moral equivalence has failed.

You don't seem to want to answer the question.

However let me suggest that so far the only law an illegal immigrant is
known to have broken is coming into the country illegally. All that other
stuff is something you are assuming and have not provided numbers or
evidence for.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Jim Yanik wrote:


In the same paragraph, you mentioned a standard language, and
established laws. Do you understand that there is no law establishing
ANY language in this country? Yes or no?

YES OR NO?




It's DEFACTO,do you know what that is? And LONG established.
Do you know what language the US Constitution is written in?

Yes,or No??

In other words it is not law. Can you site a single case where it has
been enforced?


Have you ever broken a law?


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Jim Yanik wrote:
...

Yes,I'm aware you're trying to minimize the illegals crimes by asking
for numbers.

How can asking for facts be an attempt to minimize the problem. It
would appear that the facts would only serve to clear up any misconceptions.

You have voiced your opinion about the amount of crime involved. How
did you come to that opinion, facts, hearsay, ????

BTW how about the question of the day. Have you every broken a law?

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Robert Gammon wrote:

The Real Bev wrote:
BobK207 wrote:

I grow my own tomatoes (pear, grape, romas & ; buy my strawberries
from road side stands (where they grow "untransportable" berries

What varieties are good? The flattish big ones aren't ever worth
eating, but sometimes you can get good smaller conical berries. My
grandma used to grow small (3/4") round ones that were very good.

The market will deliver that which people are willing to buy.

btw commercial oranges now are pretty tasteless, I doubt the machine
oranges will be much worse. But they'll improve if the market wants
a better one.

Local navels, both commercial and homegrown, are Washingtons. Do you
think they're tasteless?

Much of the fruit at the grocery stores is to be avoided if it is
labeled to be of California origin.

Any fruit in the grocery stores is to be avoided. Sometimes they offer
good loss leaders (this week Ralph's has excellent mangoes, reasonable
size, 3/$1 and hothouse tomatoes much better than average for 99
cents/lb.) but most of it is crap.

Generally tasteless and often dry
almost to the point of being inedible. Florida fruit and South texas
fruit are generally to be chosen over California as being both more
flavorful and juicier.

BUT the Italian store got another bin of wonderful pink grapefruit this
morning -- the size of a CD with 1/4"-3/8" skin. 2/$1. Smaller ones at
Ralph's are $1.50 each. The grapefruit hasn't been born that's worth that.

The biggest practical joke ever pulled by the citrus industry is the
pommelo.

--
Cheers,
Bev
************************************************** ***************
"...and then I'll become a veterinarian because I love children."
-- Julie Brown

wrote:

On Mon, 08 May 2006 10:32:14 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

How do you define a "commercial orange"?

A mass produced hybrid, grown on lots of pesticides and chemicals,
with a perfect skin that is designed to transport well. They are
usually picked green and dyed "orange".
If you live near a place where homegrown oranges are popular you know
the difference.

I buy oranges at the ethnic produce stores. Quality is variable, but
generally good. Sometimes they have good oranges with imperfect dye
jobs.

The Washington Navels (original tree, from Brazil, is apparently in
Riverside and still bearing) seem to be grown both at home and
commercially and seem very good. My dwarf produced three oranges two
years ago and all were excellent. I expect LOTS this year unless all
the tinies fall off again.

This is basically the same thing as the difference between grocery
store tomatoes and homegrown.

I grew some "heirloom" tomatoes one year. One or two tomatoes per plant
(my fault, probably, they're in 5-gallon containers) and not actually
all that different from the better store-bought ones. You get the most
bang/buck with cherry tomatoes.

--
Cheers,
Bev
************************************************** ***************
"...and then I'll become a veterinarian because I love children."
-- Julie Brown

On Tue, 09 May 2006 01:38:18 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

Just Bob wrote:
..

If a person from Jamaica for example wants to even VISIT the US they
have to have a sponsor. Someone that is responsible for them and
their actions among other things. Does anyone know how hard it is for
one of them to move here? This is no problem because there is a
fence that works. There should be a fence that works the same for
everyone that wants to come here to better themselves. Hey, I was
born poor so what special consideration do I get? If you are born in
Mexico then too bad. No free ride.

Why should it be made so hard?

Joe will understand the concepts presented he

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/arc..._05/008735.php

wrote:
Ahh you would pay LOTS more for all the things those illegals do.

Like food....

Its not a free lunch.

Frankly I think we would be better off to open the borders completely,
invite them in to work for companies competing with stuff from say
China/

At least that way the work is in the US.

The companies would still not reflect the labor cost in the cost of the
products or services.

Now that so many goods are produced outside the U.S., and so many
services are outsourced, i.e. tech support to India, the only way to
outsource services that must be performed in the U.S. is to hire illegal
immigrants to perform those services.

The big lie is that legal U.S. residents won't perform the jobs that the
illegals perform. Legal residents will perform them, but not at the
wages that the employers are able to pay the illegal immigrants. This is
especially true in the construction industry.

The companies that exploit the illegal immigrants don't want any guest
worker or amnesty program, as that would cost them a lot more money if
the workers didn't live in fear of the INS.

In article , "Doug Kanter" wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
.net...
In article , "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
...
First of all, nobody here, including Yanik, has ANY idea what
percentage of people coming from Mexico are carrying drugs.

Percentage or amoiunt of drugs carried does not MATTER;it's still
Mexican illegals committing crimes.


Have you ever broken an law. Do you have any information indicating
that illegal immigrants commit more crimes and more serious crimes than US
citizens?

It should be obvious on its face that illegal immigrants commit more
crimes
per capita than U.S. citizens: _every_single_one_ of the illegal
immigrants
has committed _at_least_ one crime, that of entering the United States in
violation of our immigration laws.

Many of them commit other crimes as well: driving without a license,
driving
without insurance, driving with a false license, registering to vote...
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)


Bull****. Every driver in this country has broken a traffic law, every
single time they get in the car.

So you're equating minor traffic infractions with such matters as entering the
country illegally, driving without a license, and driving while uninsured?

In any event, it should be obvious, to anyone who thinks about it, that "every
driver" includes the illegal aliens... and thus their per-capita rate of
committing crimes remains higher than that of citizens.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , "Doug Kanter" wrote:

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
. ..
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. net...
In article , "Joseph
Meehan" wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
...
First of all, nobody here, including Yanik, has ANY idea what
percentage of people coming from Mexico are carrying drugs.

Percentage or amoiunt of drugs carried does not MATTER;it's still
Mexican illegals committing crimes.


Have you ever broken an law. Do you have any information
indicating
that illegal immigrants commit more crimes and more serious crimes
than US citizens?

It should be obvious on its face that illegal immigrants commit more
crimes
per capita than U.S. citizens: _every_single_one_ of the illegal
immigrants
has committed _at_least_ one crime, that of entering the United
States in violation of our immigration laws.

Many of them commit other crimes as well: driving without a license,
driving
without insurance, driving with a false license, registering to
vote... Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)


Bull****. Every driver in this country has broken a traffic law, every
single time they get in the car.




Breaking a traffic law is nowhere near as bad as driving without a
license,
registration,or auto insurance.
Your attempt at moral equivalence has failed.

--
Jim Yanik

Going 82 in a 35 zone is not as bad as driving without a license. Got it. Do
me a favor, will ya? Next time you want to write something as silly as your
last comment, walk away from the computer for 10 minutes, then come back.

ROTFLMAO!! You say something like that, then accuse Yanik of making silly
statements?? Do you *really* think that everyone who gets behind the wheel of
a car normally and regularly drives 82 in a 35 zone? Get real. Sure, most
drivers speed -- but for the most part, they're doing 42 in a 35 zone, not 82,
and you know it.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

...

Many of them commit other crimes as well: driving without a license,
driving
without insurance, driving with a false license, registering to
vote... Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)


Bull****. Every driver in this country has broken a traffic law,
every single time they get in the car.




Breaking a traffic law is nowhere near as bad as driving without a
license, registration,or auto insurance.
Your attempt at moral equivalence has failed.

You don't seem to want to answer the question.

However let me suggest that so far the only law an illegal immigrant is
known to have broken is coming into the country illegally. All that other
stuff is something you are assuming and have not provided numbers or
evidence for.

Think it through...

No evidence needed to support the accusation of driving without a valid
license -- you _can't_get_ a valid license if you entered the country
illegally. _Any_ illegal alien who drives a car _anywhere_ in the US is doing
so without a valid license.

No evidence needed to support the accusation of driving without insurance,
either: last I checked, auto insurance agencies insure only _licensed_
drivers. No license = no insurance.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "Joseph
Meehan" wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
...
First of all, nobody here, including Yanik, has ANY idea what
percentage of people coming from Mexico are carrying drugs.

Percentage or amoiunt of drugs carried does not MATTER;it's still
Mexican illegals committing crimes.


Have you ever broken an law. Do you have any information
indicating that illegal immigrants commit more crimes and more
serious crimes than US citizens?

It should be obvious on its face that illegal immigrants commit more
crimes
per capita than U.S. citizens: _every_single_one_ of the illegal
immigrants
has committed _at_least_ one crime, that of entering the United
States in
violation of our immigration laws.

Many of them commit other crimes as well: driving without a license,
driving
without insurance, driving with a false license, registering to
vote...


You did not answer the question.

Yes, I did. You did not understand the answer. Read it again. And again, as
needed until you grasp the concept: _every_ illegal alien is a criminal.

Let me add to it. How often in the last week have you broken the law?
Dropped a piece of paper on the street, speeded, even one mph over the legal
limit, j-walked etc.

So these are equivalent to entering the US illegally, driving without a
license, driving without insurance, etc. in your mind?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
om...
In article , "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. net...
In article , "Joseph
Meehan" wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
...
First of all, nobody here, including Yanik, has ANY idea what
percentage of people coming from Mexico are carrying drugs.

Percentage or amoiunt of drugs carried does not MATTER;it's still
Mexican illegals committing crimes.


Have you ever broken an law. Do you have any information
indicating
that illegal immigrants commit more crimes and more serious crimes
than US citizens?

It should be obvious on its face that illegal immigrants commit more
crimes
per capita than U.S. citizens: _every_single_one_ of the illegal
immigrants
has committed _at_least_ one crime, that of entering the United
States in violation of our immigration laws.

Many of them commit other crimes as well: driving without a license,
driving
without insurance, driving with a false license, registering to
vote... Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)


Bull****. Every driver in this country has broken a traffic law, every
single time they get in the car.




Breaking a traffic law is nowhere near as bad as driving without a
license,
registration,or auto insurance.
Your attempt at moral equivalence has failed.

--
Jim Yanik

Going 82 in a 35 zone is not as bad as driving without a license. Got it.
Do
me a favor, will ya? Next time you want to write something as silly as
your
last comment, walk away from the computer for 10 minutes, then come back.

ROTFLMAO!! You say something like that, then accuse Yanik of making silly
statements?? Do you *really* think that everyone who gets behind the wheel
of
a car normally and regularly drives 82 in a 35 zone? Get real. Sure, most
drivers speed -- but for the most part, they're doing 42 in a 35 zone, not
82,
and you know it.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

As Yanik has implied, the speed doesn't matter. If you need to move your car
out of the garage and park it on the street, and you do this without a seat
belt, you have broken the law.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
news
In article , "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

...

Many of them commit other crimes as well: driving without a license,
driving
without insurance, driving with a false license, registering to
vote... Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)


Bull****. Every driver in this country has broken a traffic law,
every single time they get in the car.




Breaking a traffic law is nowhere near as bad as driving without a
license, registration,or auto insurance.
Your attempt at moral equivalence has failed.

You don't seem to want to answer the question.

However let me suggest that so far the only law an illegal immigrant
is
known to have broken is coming into the country illegally. All that other
stuff is something you are assuming and have not provided numbers or
evidence for.

Think it through...

No evidence needed to support the accusation of driving without a valid
license -- you _can't_get_ a valid license if you entered the country
illegally. _Any_ illegal alien who drives a car _anywhere_ in the US is
doing
so without a valid license.

No evidence needed to support the accusation of driving without insurance,
either: last I checked, auto insurance agencies insure only _licensed_
drivers. No license = no insurance.
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)


Here we go again! You and Mr. Yanik can't come up with stats on how many
illegals carry drugs into the U.S., so now you're leaning on motor vehicle
violations. I agree that driving uninsured is nasty, but do you have stats
on how many of these people don't have a valid license in their own country?

In article , "Doug Kanter" wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. com...
In article , "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
3...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. net...
In article , "Joseph
Meehan" wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
...
First of all, nobody here, including Yanik, has ANY idea what
percentage of people coming from Mexico are carrying drugs.

Percentage or amoiunt of drugs carried does not MATTER;it's still
Mexican illegals committing crimes.


Have you ever broken an law. Do you have any information
indicating
that illegal immigrants commit more crimes and more serious crimes
than US citizens?

It should be obvious on its face that illegal immigrants commit more
crimes
per capita than U.S. citizens: _every_single_one_ of the illegal
immigrants
has committed _at_least_ one crime, that of entering the United
States in violation of our immigration laws.

Many of them commit other crimes as well: driving without a license,
driving
without insurance, driving with a false license, registering to
vote... Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)


Bull****. Every driver in this country has broken a traffic law, every
single time they get in the car.




Breaking a traffic law is nowhere near as bad as driving without a
license,
registration,or auto insurance.
Your attempt at moral equivalence has failed.

--
Jim Yanik

Going 82 in a 35 zone is not as bad as driving without a license. Got it.
Do
me a favor, will ya? Next time you want to write something as silly as
your
last comment, walk away from the computer for 10 minutes, then come back.

ROTFLMAO!! You say something like that, then accuse Yanik of making silly
statements?? Do you *really* think that everyone who gets behind the wheel
of
a car normally and regularly drives 82 in a 35 zone? Get real. Sure, most
drivers speed -- but for the most part, they're doing 42 in a 35 zone, not
82,
and you know it.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

As Yanik has implied, the speed doesn't matter. If you need to move your car
out of the garage and park it on the street, and you do this without a seat
belt, you have broken the law.

I didn't see Yanik imply that. You're reading things that nobody wrote.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , "Doug Kanter" wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
news
In article , "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

...

Many of them commit other crimes as well: driving without a license,
driving
without insurance, driving with a false license, registering to
vote... Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)


Bull****. Every driver in this country has broken a traffic law,
every single time they get in the car.




Breaking a traffic law is nowhere near as bad as driving without a
license, registration,or auto insurance.
Your attempt at moral equivalence has failed.

You don't seem to want to answer the question.

However let me suggest that so far the only law an illegal immigrant
is
known to have broken is coming into the country illegally. All that other
stuff is something you are assuming and have not provided numbers or
evidence for.

Think it through...

No evidence needed to support the accusation of driving without a valid
license -- you _can't_get_ a valid license if you entered the country
illegally. _Any_ illegal alien who drives a car _anywhere_ in the US is
doing
so without a valid license.

No evidence needed to support the accusation of driving without insurance,
either: last I checked, auto insurance agencies insure only _licensed_
drivers. No license = no insurance.
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)


Here we go again! You and Mr. Yanik can't come up with stats on how many
illegals carry drugs into the U.S., so now you're leaning on motor vehicle
violations. I agree that driving uninsured is nasty, but do you have stats
on how many of these people don't have a valid license in their own country?

It doesn't matter whether they have a valid license in their own country or
not -- they don't have a valid one *here*.

Try driving in Mexico on a U.S. driver's license. Let us know how well that
works for you. After you get out of jail, that is.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. com...

It doesn't matter whether they have a valid license in their own country
or
not -- they don't have a valid one *here*.

Try driving in Mexico on a U.S. driver's license. Let us know how well
that
works for you. After you get out of jail, that is.

How about Canada? Same problem?

Jim Yanik wrote:
Robert Gammon wrote in
om:


Jim Yanik wrote:

Robert Gammon wrote in
. com:


We can agree that the coyote abuse the HELL out of their customers
in all sorts of ways. Well publicized case here in South texas
where a 18 wheeler driver walked away from a rig in 90+ degree heat
leaving 20 some odd Hispanic refugees to nearly all die in the heat
last year.

However, the quantity of heroin and other controlled drugs sold in
the USA cannot be accounted for solely by the actions of mules.
Yes, there are drug mules, but I doubt that the folks who crontrol
the bulk of the narcotics trade use mules to move their product.
Yes Jamacians use mules to move drugs into Europe. I have doubts
that the massive cocaine production in South America, the massive
poppy fields across Asia move into the markets of the USA and Europe
to any significant degree in the guts of mules. Its hundreds of
tons of this stuff consumed each year, it can't all be coming in the
guts of mules, only a very very minor portion can be accounted for
in this manner.


Which has NOTHING to do with the fact that it's illegal and illegal
"immigrants" are the ones committing the felonies by being drug
mules. How much doesn't matter,it's STILL a felony crime.This is just
WEASELLING AWAY from the claim that Mexican illegals don't commit
crimes when coming to the US.




We can both agree that crossing any of the borders of the USA without
permission is a violation of US Immigration Law, and we SHOULD not
treat violators of this law any differently than violators of any
other law. However, we do treat them differently than other
criminals. Police forces (state and local) are not on the lookout to
arrest them, neither are National Guard, or the FBI. Their faces and
names are not posted in Post Offices and Police Stations. We only
have the US Border Patrol (on land) and their bosses at the INS to
enforce this law, and they do not have the resources to shutdown
illegal immigration. Heck the INS cannot detect when a student
overstays their visa to study at one of our universities.

But to suggest that the heart of our drug problems would be solved by
getting rid of illegal immigrants who are being used as drug mules is
LUDICROUS!!!


Back the truck up;you cannot cite where I said anything of the sort.
I only said it demonstrates how Mexican illegals do other crimes than just
illegal entry.You need to learn to read,or quit trying to TWIST the
argument to numbers and quantities.



the problem we all have with your statements about illegals being drug
mules is that you imply that the problem is rampant, that a significant
portion of the illegals are mules. It is like saying this group smells
funny, that group talks weird, this other group eats strange stuff,
group c worships a false god, group d is violent just because a few
members of the group that we have met, seen on TV, or read about in the
papers exhibit these symptoms.


However, The stories in the press are about Legal visitors, on Tourist
Visas, people who fly into the country (USA, Canada, England, France,
Germany, Spain, etc) The rumors are that Mexican illegals are carrying
across drugs in their guts as they walk across the border or are driven
across the border. We, as yet, have no facts to back this up. We only
have your statements that this is happening and the statement published
ont eh web about some US goverment official complaining about illegals
carrying drugs across the border.

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .

"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .

Robert Gammon wrote in
om:


Jim Yanik wrote:

Robert Gammon wrote in
. com:


We can agree that the coyote abuse the HELL out of their customers
in all sorts of ways. Well publicized case here in South texas
where a 18 wheeler driver walked away from a rig in 90+ degree
heat leaving 20 some odd Hispanic refugees to nearly all die in
the heat last year.

However, the quantity of heroin and other controlled drugs sold in
the USA cannot be accounted for solely by the actions of mules.
Yes, there are drug mules, but I doubt that the folks who crontrol
the bulk of the narcotics trade use mules to move their product.
Yes Jamacians use mules to move drugs into Europe. I have doubts
that the massive cocaine production in South America, the massive
poppy fields across Asia move into the markets of the USA and
Europe to any significant degree in the guts of mules. Its
hundreds of tons of this stuff consumed each year, it can't all be
coming in the guts of mules, only a very very minor portion can be
accounted for in this manner.


Which has NOTHING to do with the fact that it's illegal and illegal
"immigrants" are the ones committing the felonies by being drug
mules. How much doesn't matter,it's STILL a felony crime.This is
just WEASELLING AWAY from the claim that Mexican illegals don't
commit crimes when coming to the US.




We can both agree that crossing any of the borders of the USA
without permission is a violation of US Immigration Law, and we
SHOULD not treat violators of this law any differently than
violators of any other law. However, we do treat them differently
than other criminals. Police forces (state and local) are not on
the lookout to arrest them, neither are National Guard, or the FBI.
Their faces and names are not posted in Post Offices and Police
Stations. We only have the US Border Patrol (on land) and their
bosses at the INS to enforce this law, and they do not have the
resources to shutdown illegal immigration. Heck the INS cannot
detect when a student overstays their visa to study at one of our
universities.

But to suggest that the heart of our drug problems would be solved
by getting rid of illegal immigrants who are being used as drug
mules is LUDICROUS!!!

Back the truck up;you cannot cite where I said anything of the sort.
I only said it demonstrates how Mexican illegals do other crimes than
just illegal entry.You need to learn to read,or quit trying to TWIST
the argument to numbers and quantities.

Yes. Some Mexicans commit other crimes. Happy now? Good. But, it's
irrelevant until you can come up with STATISTICS from a reliable
source, which tell us how many are caught with illegal substances as
they're apprehended by border patrol agents. Are you clear on what I'm
asking for? Yes, or no?




Yes,I'm aware you're trying to minimize the illegals crimes by asking for
numbers.


You are basing most of your beliefs on crimes committed by illegals, OTHER
THAN the simple fact that they crossed the border illegally. How could I be
minimizing "crimes" while you "maximize" them?




It's also hard to establish any stats when local or state police are not
allowed to inquire about immigration status.(due to people like you)


I have no idea what you're talking about. But, it doesn't matter. I told you
to get stats from one agency: The INS. I don't care what other police
agencies have in their files.



Secure borders is a topic of US DHS. Even has its own web pages.

http://www.ice.gov/pi/topics/immref/index.htm

The point here is that illegals other than Mexicans are now in an
expedited program to deport them back to their homelands faster than
before OTHER THAN MEXICANS!!

Border patrol routinely catches and ships Mexicans back across the
border with 24 hours or less of detention when they are caught within 50
miles of the border.

A search of the ICE web site turns up lots of activity about drug
interdiction. But nothing in the top 10 links to documents talks about
mules. Airplanes, boats, trucks, yes. Drug Cartel leaders, yes. 1.2
million pounds of cocaine believed to have left Columbia for the USA
over the last 10 years, and that ONLY from ONE Cartel.

"Robert Gammon" wrote in message
. com...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .

"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .

Robert Gammon wrote in
om:


Jim Yanik wrote:

Robert Gammon wrote in
. com:


We can agree that the coyote abuse the HELL out of their customers
in all sorts of ways. Well publicized case here in South texas
where a 18 wheeler driver walked away from a rig in 90+ degree
heat leaving 20 some odd Hispanic refugees to nearly all die in
the heat last year.

However, the quantity of heroin and other controlled drugs sold in
the USA cannot be accounted for solely by the actions of mules.
Yes, there are drug mules, but I doubt that the folks who crontrol
the bulk of the narcotics trade use mules to move their product.
Yes Jamacians use mules to move drugs into Europe. I have doubts
that the massive cocaine production in South America, the massive
poppy fields across Asia move into the markets of the USA and
Europe to any significant degree in the guts of mules. Its
hundreds of tons of this stuff consumed each year, it can't all be
coming in the guts of mules, only a very very minor portion can be
accounted for in this manner.


Which has NOTHING to do with the fact that it's illegal and illegal
"immigrants" are the ones committing the felonies by being drug
mules. How much doesn't matter,it's STILL a felony crime.This is
just WEASELLING AWAY from the claim that Mexican illegals don't
commit crimes when coming to the US.




We can both agree that crossing any of the borders of the USA
without permission is a violation of US Immigration Law, and we
SHOULD not treat violators of this law any differently than
violators of any other law. However, we do treat them differently
than other criminals. Police forces (state and local) are not on
the lookout to arrest them, neither are National Guard, or the FBI.
Their faces and names are not posted in Post Offices and Police
Stations. We only have the US Border Patrol (on land) and their
bosses at the INS to enforce this law, and they do not have the
resources to shutdown illegal immigration. Heck the INS cannot
detect when a student overstays their visa to study at one of our
universities.

But to suggest that the heart of our drug problems would be solved
by getting rid of illegal immigrants who are being used as drug
mules is LUDICROUS!!!

Back the truck up;you cannot cite where I said anything of the sort.
I only said it demonstrates how Mexican illegals do other crimes than
just illegal entry.You need to learn to read,or quit trying to TWIST
the argument to numbers and quantities.

Yes. Some Mexicans commit other crimes. Happy now? Good. But, it's
irrelevant until you can come up with STATISTICS from a reliable
source, which tell us how many are caught with illegal substances as
they're apprehended by border patrol agents. Are you clear on what I'm
asking for? Yes, or no?




Yes,I'm aware you're trying to minimize the illegals crimes by asking
for
numbers.


You are basing most of your beliefs on crimes committed by illegals,
OTHER THAN the simple fact that they crossed the border illegally. How
could I be minimizing "crimes" while you "maximize" them?




It's also hard to establish any stats when local or state police are not
allowed to inquire about immigration status.(due to people like you)


I have no idea what you're talking about. But, it doesn't matter. I told
you to get stats from one agency: The INS. I don't care what other police
agencies have in their files.


Secure borders is a topic of US DHS. Even has its own web pages.

http://www.ice.gov/pi/topics/immref/index.htm

The point here is that illegals other than Mexicans are now in an
expedited program to deport them back to their homelands faster than
before OTHER THAN MEXICANS!!

Border patrol routinely catches and ships Mexicans back across the border
with 24 hours or less of detention when they are caught within 50 miles of
the border.

A search of the ICE web site turns up lots of activity about drug
interdiction. But nothing in the top 10 links to documents talks about
mules. Airplanes, boats, trucks, yes. Drug Cartel leaders, yes. 1.2
million pounds of cocaine believed to have left Columbia for the USA over
the last 10 years, and that ONLY from ONE Cartel.



I suspect that the two "authorities" in this discussion will discount or
ignore that web site because it's hardly authoritative. Hell....the agency
that actually handles illegals - what would THEY know? :-)

Jim Yanik wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


"Robert Gammon" wrote in message
om...

Jim Yanik wrote:

Robert Gammon wrote in
. com:

We can agree that the coyote abuse the HELL out of their customers
in all sorts of ways. Well publicized case here in South texas
where a 18 wheeler driver walked away from a rig in 90+ degree heat
leaving 20 some odd Hispanic refugees to nearly all die in the heat
last year.

However, the quantity of heroin and other controlled drugs sold in
the USA cannot be accounted for solely by the actions of mules.
Yes, there are drug mules, but I doubt that the folks who crontrol
the bulk of the narcotics trade use mules to move their product.
Yes Jamacians use mules to move drugs into Europe. I have doubts
that the massive cocaine production in South America, the massive
poppy fields across Asia move into the markets of the USA and
Europe to any significant degree in the guts of mules. Its
hundreds of tons of this stuff consumed each year, it can't all be
coming in the guts of mules, only a very very minor portion can be
accounted for in this manner.


Which has NOTHING to do with the fact that it's illegal and illegal
"immigrants" are the ones committing the felonies by being drug
mules. How much doesn't matter,it's STILL a felony crime.This is
just WEASELLING AWAY from the claim that Mexican illegals don't
commit crimes when coming to the US.




We can both agree that crossing any of the borders of the USA
without permission is a violation of US Immigration Law, and we
SHOULD not treat violators of this law any differently than violators
of any other law. However, we do treat them differently than other
criminals. Police forces (state and local) are not on the lookout
to arrest them, neither are National Guard, or the FBI. Their faces
and names are not posted in Post Offices and Police Stations. We
only have the US Border Patrol (on land) and their bosses at the INS
to enforce this law, and they do not have the resources to shutdown
illegal immigration. Heck the INS cannot detect when a student
overstays their visa to study at one of our universities.

But to suggest that the heart of our drug problems would be solved by
getting rid of illegal immigrants who are being used as drug mules is
LUDICROUS!!! We cannot possibly attribute illegals who act as mules
for the TONS of cocaine, marijuana, heroin, hashish, etc that flow
from the Third World nations to other parts of the world, USA
included. Yes, Columbia uses Mexico as a path to the USA. They also
use Florida, and most of the Gulf Coast states to move their product
into our system. If drug mules were eliminated, the drug lords would
find some other method to get the product in. Heck, it would only
make a difference to the marginal distributor one who only needed to
move modest amounts of product anyway.


Drugs are also coming over land borders with Canada, and even by canoe
in a few places, according to an interesting news story I saw a couple
of years back. And, the Coast Guard has stated clearly that there's no
way they can track every single pleasure boat that crosses the Great
Lakes or the St. Lawrence River.





Which has nothing to do with the Mexican border,where the majority of
illegal entry into the US occurs.

You an Gammon are trying to twist the argument into something else.


if we talk about illegals, we need to talk about ALL illegals, not just
Mexicans, but those from Central and South America, Asia, Canada,
Eastern Europe, Africa.

We are merely pointing out that Mexican illegals are not our only
problem, and that drug smuggling by illegal Mexicans is a minor part of
the US drug supply and a minor portion of the Mexican illegals are
participating in this drug trafficing.

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. com...


It doesn't matter whether they have a valid license in their own country
or
not -- they don't have a valid one *here*.

Try driving in Mexico on a U.S. driver's license. Let us know how well
that
works for you. After you get out of jail, that is.


How about Canada? Same problem?



US Driver's license is recognized in Canada.

You need an insurance rider to meet Canadian auto liability laws.

Robert Gammon wrote in
om:

Jim Yanik wrote:
Robert Gammon wrote in
om:


Jim Yanik wrote:

Robert Gammon wrote in
. com:


We can agree that the coyote abuse the HELL out of their customers
in all sorts of ways. Well publicized case here in South texas
where a 18 wheeler driver walked away from a rig in 90+ degree
heat leaving 20 some odd Hispanic refugees to nearly all die in
the heat last year.

However, the quantity of heroin and other controlled drugs sold in
the USA cannot be accounted for solely by the actions of mules.
Yes, there are drug mules, but I doubt that the folks who crontrol
the bulk of the narcotics trade use mules to move their product.
Yes Jamacians use mules to move drugs into Europe. I have doubts
that the massive cocaine production in South America, the massive
poppy fields across Asia move into the markets of the USA and
Europe to any significant degree in the guts of mules. Its
hundreds of tons of this stuff consumed each year, it can't all be
coming in the guts of mules, only a very very minor portion can be
accounted for in this manner.


Which has NOTHING to do with the fact that it's illegal and illegal
"immigrants" are the ones committing the felonies by being drug
mules. How much doesn't matter,it's STILL a felony crime.This is
just WEASELLING AWAY from the claim that Mexican illegals don't
commit crimes when coming to the US.




We can both agree that crossing any of the borders of the USA
without permission is a violation of US Immigration Law, and we
SHOULD not treat violators of this law any differently than
violators of any other law. However, we do treat them differently
than other criminals. Police forces (state and local) are not on
the lookout to arrest them, neither are National Guard, or the FBI.
Their faces and names are not posted in Post Offices and Police
Stations. We only have the US Border Patrol (on land) and their
bosses at the INS to enforce this law, and they do not have the
resources to shutdown illegal immigration. Heck the INS cannot
detect when a student overstays their visa to study at one of our
universities.

But to suggest that the heart of our drug problems would be solved
by getting rid of illegal immigrants who are being used as drug
mules is LUDICROUS!!!


Back the truck up;you cannot cite where I said anything of the sort.
I only said it demonstrates how Mexican illegals do other crimes than
just illegal entry.You need to learn to read,or quit trying to TWIST
the argument to numbers and quantities.



the problem we all have with your statements about illegals being drug
mules is that you imply

"imply" is what YOU read into it.
All I said was that it shows they commit crimes other than illegal entry.
Stop grabbing at implications to support your argument

that the problem is rampant, that a
significant portion of the illegals are mules. It is like saying this
group smells funny, that group talks weird, this other group eats
strange stuff, group c worships a false god, group d is violent just
because a few members of the group that we have met, seen on TV, or
read about in the papers exhibit these symptoms.


However, The stories in the press are about Legal visitors, on Tourist
Visas, people who fly into the country (USA, Canada, England, France,
Germany, Spain, etc) The rumors are that Mexican illegals are
carrying across drugs in their guts

AGAIN,you can't seem to read;I said the illegals backpack it,**the part
about swallowing condoms was to show that such small quantities are
evidently considered practical.**.
That's the part YOU can't get past.

as they walk across the border or
are driven across the border. We, as yet, have no facts to back this
up. We only have your statements that this is happening and the
statement published ont eh web about some US goverment official
complaining about illegals carrying drugs across the border.


Also,many state and local LEOs(and hospitals,social agencies,etc.) are
forbidden to inquire about immigration status,so data is unreliable.



--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Robert Gammon wrote in
. com:

Jim Yanik wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


"Robert Gammon" wrote in message
om...

Jim Yanik wrote:

Robert Gammon wrote in
. com:

We can agree that the coyote abuse the HELL out of their customers
in all sorts of ways. Well publicized case here in South texas
where a 18 wheeler driver walked away from a rig in 90+ degree heat
leaving 20 some odd Hispanic refugees to nearly all die in the heat
last year.

However, the quantity of heroin and other controlled drugs sold in
the USA cannot be accounted for solely by the actions of mules.
Yes, there are drug mules, but I doubt that the folks who crontrol
the bulk of the narcotics trade use mules to move their product.
Yes Jamacians use mules to move drugs into Europe. I have doubts
that the massive cocaine production in South America, the massive
poppy fields across Asia move into the markets of the USA and
Europe to any significant degree in the guts of mules. Its
hundreds of tons of this stuff consumed each year, it can't all be
coming in the guts of mules, only a very very minor portion can be
accounted for in this manner.


Which has NOTHING to do with the fact that it's illegal and illegal
"immigrants" are the ones committing the felonies by being drug
mules. How much doesn't matter,it's STILL a felony crime.This is
just WEASELLING AWAY from the claim that Mexican illegals don't
commit crimes when coming to the US.




We can both agree that crossing any of the borders of the USA
without permission is a violation of US Immigration Law, and we
SHOULD not treat violators of this law any differently than violators
of any other law. However, we do treat them differently than other
criminals. Police forces (state and local) are not on the lookout
to arrest them, neither are National Guard, or the FBI. Their faces
and names are not posted in Post Offices and Police Stations. We
only have the US Border Patrol (on land) and their bosses at the INS
to enforce this law, and they do not have the resources to shutdown
illegal immigration. Heck the INS cannot detect when a student
overstays their visa to study at one of our universities.

But to suggest that the heart of our drug problems would be solved by
getting rid of illegal immigrants who are being used as drug mules is
LUDICROUS!!! We cannot possibly attribute illegals who act as mules
for the TONS of cocaine, marijuana, heroin, hashish, etc that flow
from the Third World nations to other parts of the world, USA
included. Yes, Columbia uses Mexico as a path to the USA. They also
use Florida, and most of the Gulf Coast states to move their product
into our system. If drug mules were eliminated, the drug lords would
find some other method to get the product in. Heck, it would only
make a difference to the marginal distributor one who only needed to
move modest amounts of product anyway.


Drugs are also coming over land borders with Canada, and even by canoe
in a few places, according to an interesting news story I saw a couple
of years back. And, the Coast Guard has stated clearly that there's no
way they can track every single pleasure boat that crosses the Great
Lakes or the St. Lawrence River.





Which has nothing to do with the Mexican border,where the majority of
illegal entry into the US occurs.

You an Gammon are trying to twist the argument into something else.


if we talk about illegals, we need to talk about ALL illegals, not just
Mexicans, but those from Central and South America, Asia, Canada,
Eastern Europe, Africa.

Their numbers are not as great as the Mexicans,as they do not share borders
with the US(where they can just walk across),or like Canada,don't have a
great number of people WANTING to move here.I've read that 40% of Mexicans
want to move to the US;That is a HUGE number that we cannot assimilate.



We are merely pointing out that Mexican illegals are not our only
problem, and that drug smuggling by illegal Mexicans is a minor part of
the US drug supply and a minor portion of the Mexican illegals are
participating in this drug trafficing.


And we are pointing out that many of them commit other criminal acts once
having committed the FIRST criminal act of illegal entry.

your attempt at minimalizing the problems has failed.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Jim Yanik wrote:
Robert Gammon wrote in
. com:


Jim Yanik wrote:

"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:



"Robert Gammon" wrote in message
om...


Jim Yanik wrote:


Robert Gammon wrote in
. com:


We can agree that the coyote abuse the HELL out of their customers
in all sorts of ways. Well publicized case here in South texas
where a 18 wheeler driver walked away from a rig in 90+ degree heat
leaving 20 some odd Hispanic refugees to nearly all die in the heat
last year.

However, the quantity of heroin and other controlled drugs sold in
the USA cannot be accounted for solely by the actions of mules.
Yes, there are drug mules, but I doubt that the folks who crontrol
the bulk of the narcotics trade use mules to move their product.
Yes Jamacians use mules to move drugs into Europe. I have doubts
that the massive cocaine production in South America, the massive
poppy fields across Asia move into the markets of the USA and
Europe to any significant degree in the guts of mules. Its
hundreds of tons of this stuff consumed each year, it can't all be
coming in the guts of mules, only a very very minor portion can be
accounted for in this manner.



Which has NOTHING to do with the fact that it's illegal and illegal
"immigrants" are the ones committing the felonies by being drug
mules. How much doesn't matter,it's STILL a felony crime.This is
just WEASELLING AWAY from the claim that Mexican illegals don't
commit crimes when coming to the US.





We can both agree that crossing any of the borders of the USA
without permission is a violation of US Immigration Law, and we
SHOULD not treat violators of this law any differently than violators
of any other law. However, we do treat them differently than other
criminals. Police forces (state and local) are not on the lookout
to arrest them, neither are National Guard, or the FBI. Their faces
and names are not posted in Post Offices and Police Stations. We
only have the US Border Patrol (on land) and their bosses at the INS
to enforce this law, and they do not have the resources to shutdown
illegal immigration. Heck the INS cannot detect when a student
overstays their visa to study at one of our universities.

But to suggest that the heart of our drug problems would be solved by
getting rid of illegal immigrants who are being used as drug mules is
LUDICROUS!!! We cannot possibly attribute illegals who act as mules
for the TONS of cocaine, marijuana, heroin, hashish, etc that flow
from the Third World nations to other parts of the world, USA
included. Yes, Columbia uses Mexico as a path to the USA. They also
use Florida, and most of the Gulf Coast states to move their product
into our system. If drug mules were eliminated, the drug lords would
find some other method to get the product in. Heck, it would only
make a difference to the marginal distributor one who only needed to
move modest amounts of product anyway.



Drugs are also coming over land borders with Canada, and even by canoe
in a few places, according to an interesting news story I saw a couple
of years back. And, the Coast Guard has stated clearly that there's no
way they can track every single pleasure boat that crosses the Great
Lakes or the St. Lawrence River.





Which has nothing to do with the Mexican border,where the majority of
illegal entry into the US occurs.

You an Gammon are trying to twist the argument into something else.



if we talk about illegals, we need to talk about ALL illegals, not just
Mexicans, but those from Central and South America, Asia, Canada,
Eastern Europe, Africa.


Their numbers are not as great as the Mexicans,as they do not share borders
with the US(where they can just walk across),or like Canada,don't have a
great number of people WANTING to move here.I've read that 40% of Mexicans
want to move to the US;That is a HUGE number that we cannot assimilate.



We are merely pointing out that Mexican illegals are not our only
problem, and that drug smuggling by illegal Mexicans is a minor part of
the US drug supply and a minor portion of the Mexican illegals are
participating in this drug trafficing.



And we are pointing out that many of them commit other criminal acts once
having committed the FIRST criminal act of illegal entry.

your attempt at minimalizing the problems has failed.


Let let only those WITHOUT sin cast stones at others!!!

Never gotten a speeding ticket, never exceeded the speed limit, never
been involved in an auto accident (your fault or not does not matter),
never dropped a piece of paper/plastic on the street, a lawn or
sidewalk, never played your car radio or stereo/TV in your house loud
enough for others to hear

Some minor portion of the illegal entrants (yes it is against the law to
enter without permission) do participate in OTHER crimes once they are
here, or commit some OTHER crime while crossing the border on their way
to their ultimate destination (breaking and entering, theft, littering,
loitering, public intoxication, transport of illegal substances, driving
without a US drivers license, driving without liability insurance,
speeding)

Once they reach their destination and find work, the list gets MUCH shorter.

Mexicans are not our ONLY illegal immigrants. They are not our ONLY
illegal immigrants who commit other crimes once they reach our soil.
That they are the largest single group does not matter. All groups
seeking entry need EQUAL treatment under the law, Mexico, Guatemala,
Belize, Columbia, Venezula, Panama, Honduras, Nicaragua....

Keep in mind that tens of thousands of Mexicans cross the border every
day, legally, and return home at night after a day of shopping in
Brownsville, Laredo, El Paso, San Diego.

Some take extended trips into the interior, I see Mexican license plates
on NICE cars here in the streets of Houston TX from time to time.

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. com...


It doesn't matter whether they have a valid license in their own country
or
not -- they don't have a valid one *here*.

Try driving in Mexico on a U.S. driver's license. Let us know how well
that
works for you. After you get out of jail, that is.


How about Canada? Same problem?


You can't drive in Canada on a US license? News to me ) This thread
has outlived it's useful life, but so have most of the pol's on both
sides of the issue. Now that it's campaign time, all kinds of strange
stuff will happen, like Jeb deciding Kathryn Harris cannot win. What a
hoot, and the Bushes are so loyal. Think of all she has done for them
) Even got religion!

The nice part of "illegal" and "legal" aliens (not "illegal" hispanics)
is that when you catch them doing something really nasty, like causing
serious auto accidents as part of an insurance scam, the gov't CAN
deport them. Ol' Vicente Fox got in so good with GB he started to think
he can market drugs to American kids. I'm all for coke grown in the US,
but hate those nasty imports. Should put 1000% import duty on all the
nasty trash Americans buy in Tiquana (probably made in China, ennyhoo).
For the really bad aliens, when their own country won't take them back
I would be all for dropping them off with a good parachute to get them
home. And I'm a liberal! )

"Norminn" wrote in message
.net...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. com...


It doesn't matter whether they have a valid license in their own country
or
not -- they don't have a valid one *here*.

Try driving in Mexico on a U.S. driver's license. Let us know how well
that
works for you. After you get out of jail, that is.


How about Canada? Same problem?
You can't drive in Canada on a US license? News to me )

I know - I visit Canada every other month. No license problems. I was just
putting a layer of grass & twigs over a deep hole full of snakes, and
waiting for Yanik or Miller to step into it.

Robert Gammon wrote in
t:

Jim Yanik wrote:
Robert Gammon wrote in
. com:


Jim Yanik wrote:

"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:



"Robert Gammon" wrote in message
om...


Jim Yanik wrote:


Robert Gammon wrote in
. com:


We can agree that the coyote abuse the HELL out of their
customers in all sorts of ways. Well publicized case here in
South texas where a 18 wheeler driver walked away from a rig in
90+ degree heat leaving 20 some odd Hispanic refugees to nearly
all die in the heat last year.

However, the quantity of heroin and other controlled drugs sold
in the USA cannot be accounted for solely by the actions of
mules. Yes, there are drug mules, but I doubt that the folks
who crontrol the bulk of the narcotics trade use mules to move
their product. Yes Jamacians use mules to move drugs into
Europe. I have doubts that the massive cocaine production in
South America, the massive poppy fields across Asia move into
the markets of the USA and Europe to any significant degree in
the guts of mules. Its hundreds of tons of this stuff consumed
each year, it can't all be coming in the guts of mules, only a
very very minor portion can be accounted for in this manner.



Which has NOTHING to do with the fact that it's illegal and
illegal "immigrants" are the ones committing the felonies by
being drug mules. How much doesn't matter,it's STILL a felony
crime.This is just WEASELLING AWAY from the claim that Mexican
illegals don't commit crimes when coming to the US.





We can both agree that crossing any of the borders of the USA
without permission is a violation of US Immigration Law, and we
SHOULD not treat violators of this law any differently than
violators of any other law. However, we do treat them differently
than other criminals. Police forces (state and local) are not
on the lookout to arrest them, neither are National Guard, or the
FBI. Their faces and names are not posted in Post Offices and
Police Stations. We only have the US Border Patrol (on land) and
their bosses at the INS to enforce this law, and they do not have
the resources to shutdown illegal immigration. Heck the INS
cannot detect when a student overstays their visa to study at one
of our universities.

But to suggest that the heart of our drug problems would be
solved by getting rid of illegal immigrants who are being used as
drug mules is LUDICROUS!!! We cannot possibly attribute illegals
who act as mules for the TONS of cocaine, marijuana, heroin,
hashish, etc that flow from the Third World nations to other
parts of the world, USA included. Yes, Columbia uses Mexico as a
path to the USA. They also use Florida, and most of the Gulf
Coast states to move their product into our system. If drug mules
were eliminated, the drug lords would find some other method to
get the product in. Heck, it would only make a difference to the
marginal distributor one who only needed to move modest amounts
of product anyway.



Drugs are also coming over land borders with Canada, and even by
canoe in a few places, according to an interesting news story I
saw a couple of years back. And, the Coast Guard has stated
clearly that there's no way they can track every single pleasure
boat that crosses the Great Lakes or the St. Lawrence River.





Which has nothing to do with the Mexican border,where the majority
of illegal entry into the US occurs.

You an Gammon are trying to twist the argument into something else.



if we talk about illegals, we need to talk about ALL illegals, not
just Mexicans, but those from Central and South America, Asia,
Canada, Eastern Europe, Africa.


Their numbers are not as great as the Mexicans,as they do not share
borders with the US(where they can just walk across),or like
Canada,don't have a great number of people WANTING to move here.I've
read that 40% of Mexicans want to move to the US;That is a HUGE
number that we cannot assimilate.



We are merely pointing out that Mexican illegals are not our only
problem, and that drug smuggling by illegal Mexicans is a minor part
of the US drug supply and a minor portion of the Mexican illegals
are participating in this drug trafficing.



And we are pointing out that many of them commit other criminal acts
once having committed the FIRST criminal act of illegal entry.

your attempt at minimalizing the problems has failed.


Let let only those WITHOUT sin cast stones at others!!!

Never gotten a speeding ticket, never exceeded the speed limit, never
been involved in an auto accident (your fault or not does not matter),
never dropped a piece of paper/plastic on the street, a lawn or
sidewalk, never played your car radio or stereo/TV in your house loud
enough for others to hear

Some minor portion

Hardly "minor".
(attempting to minimize the problem.)

of the illegal entrants (yes it is against the law
to enter without permission) do participate in OTHER crimes once they
are here, or commit some OTHER crime while crossing the border on
their way to their ultimate destination (breaking and entering, theft,
littering, loitering, public intoxication, transport of illegal
substances, driving without a US drivers license, driving without
liability insurance, speeding)

Once they reach their destination and find work, the list gets MUCH
shorter.

Nonsense;they keep on driving without license,insurance,they use fake
documents to secure work.they still commit other crimes,too.
AGAIN,you try to mimimize the problems.

Mexicans are not our ONLY illegal immigrants. They are not our ONLY
illegal immigrants who commit other crimes once they reach our soil.

No,just the majority.

That they are the largest single group does not matter. All groups
seeking entry need EQUAL treatment under the law, Mexico, Guatemala,
Belize, Columbia, Venezula, Panama, Honduras, Nicaragua....

The vast majority of illegals are Mexicans,because of the shared border.


Keep in mind that tens of thousands of Mexicans cross the border every
day, legally, and return home at night after a day of shopping in
Brownsville, Laredo, El Paso, San Diego.

Which has NOTHING to do with illegal entrants.
No one is talking about excluding LEGAL entrants,*except you folks*.

Some take extended trips into the interior, I see Mexican license
plates on NICE cars here in the streets of Houston TX from time to
time.




--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Norminn wrote in
.net:


The nice part of "illegal" and "legal" aliens (not "illegal"
hispanics) is that when you catch them doing something really nasty,
like causing serious auto accidents as part of an insurance scam, the
gov't CAN deport them.

It doens't happen,because local and State gov'ts are often not allowed to
inquire about immigration status.They release the illegals and then they
disappear,never show for trial.

Only the feds can deport anyone.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

In article , "Doug Kanter" wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
.com...

It doesn't matter whether they have a valid license in their own country
or
not -- they don't have a valid one *here*.

Try driving in Mexico on a U.S. driver's license. Let us know how well
that
works for you. After you get out of jail, that is.

How about Canada? Same problem?


No. U.S. driver's licenses are valid in Canada, and vice versa.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Jim Yanik wrote:
Norminn wrote in
.net:


The nice part of "illegal" and "legal" aliens (not "illegal"
hispanics) is that when you catch them doing something really nasty,
like causing serious auto accidents as part of an insurance scam, the
gov't CAN deport them.


It doens't happen,because local and State gov'ts are often not allowed to
inquire about immigration status.They release the illegals and then they
disappear,never show for trial.

Only the feds can deport anyone.


Jim is RIGHT on this point. Name address and telephone, picture ID and
SSA card are all that is required. Get this set of info, and no one
asks. The courts understand well enough what is going on and provide
interpreters. Say one case with an African where a French language
interpreter was brought in to assist the accused in understanding what
he had done wrong.

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "Joseph
Meehan" wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

...

Many of them commit other crimes as well: driving without a
license, driving
without insurance, driving with a false license, registering to
vote... Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)


Bull****. Every driver in this country has broken a traffic law,
every single time they get in the car.




Breaking a traffic law is nowhere near as bad as driving without a
license, registration,or auto insurance.
Your attempt at moral equivalence has failed.

You don't seem to want to answer the question.

However let me suggest that so far the only law an illegal
immigrant is known to have broken is coming into the country
illegally. All that other stuff is something you are assuming and
have not provided numbers or evidence for.

Think it through...

No evidence needed to support the accusation of driving without a
valid
license -- you _can't_get_ a valid license if you entered the country
illegally. _Any_ illegal alien who drives a car _anywhere_ in the US
is doing
so without a valid license.

No evidence needed to support the accusation of driving without
insurance,
either: last I checked, auto insurance agencies insure only _licensed_
drivers. No license = no insurance.

Again, have you ever broken a law? Speeding, Jaywalking etc. ??

I am going to assume you have. So where does that put you? Where does
that put your argument?


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
news
In article , "Joseph
Meehan" wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

...

Many of them commit other crimes as well: driving without a
license, driving
without insurance, driving with a false license, registering to
vote... Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)


Bull****. Every driver in this country has broken a traffic law,
every single time they get in the car.




Breaking a traffic law is nowhere near as bad as driving without a
license, registration,or auto insurance.
Your attempt at moral equivalence has failed.

You don't seem to want to answer the question.

However let me suggest that so far the only law an illegal
immigrant is
known to have broken is coming into the country illegally. All
that other stuff is something you are assuming and have not
provided numbers or evidence for.

Think it through...

No evidence needed to support the accusation of driving without a
valid license -- you _can't_get_ a valid license if you entered the
country illegally. _Any_ illegal alien who drives a car _anywhere_
in the US is doing
so without a valid license.

No evidence needed to support the accusation of driving without
insurance, either: last I checked, auto insurance agencies insure
only _licensed_ drivers. No license = no insurance.
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)


Here we go again! You and Mr. Yanik can't come up with stats on how
many illegals carry drugs into the U.S., so now you're leaning on
motor vehicle violations. I agree that driving uninsured is nasty,
but do you have stats on how many of these people don't have a valid
license in their own country?

It doesn't matter whether they have a valid license in their own
country or
not -- they don't have a valid one *here*.

Try driving in Mexico on a U.S. driver's license. Let us know how
well that
works for you. After you get out of jail, that is.

Gee, I have driven in five countries including Mexico and done so
legally with only one license from the US.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 09 May 2006 22:52:48 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

Gee, I have driven in five countries including Mexico and done so
legally with only one license from the US.
The only thing a gringo has to do is buy the overpriced Mexican rider
from a federale bribed insurer..

My insurer says Mexico and Canada are covered. The only thing I can't do
without more insurance is drive to Puerto Rico.

In article ,
says...

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 09 May 2006 22:52:48 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

Gee, I have driven in five countries including Mexico and done so
legally with only one license from the US.
The only thing a gringo has to do is buy the overpriced Mexican rider
from a federale bribed insurer..

My insurer says Mexico and Canada are covered. The only thing I can't do
without more insurance is drive to Puerto Rico.

You need far more than insurance to drive to Puerto Rico.

--
Keith

In article ,
says...
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "Joseph
Meehan" wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "Joseph
Meehan" wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
...
First of all, nobody here, including Yanik, has ANY idea what
percentage of people coming from Mexico are carrying drugs.

Percentage or amoiunt of drugs carried does not MATTER;it's still
Mexican illegals committing crimes.


Have you ever broken an law. Do you have any information
indicating that illegal immigrants commit more crimes and more
serious crimes than US citizens?

It should be obvious on its face that illegal immigrants commit more
crimes
per capita than U.S. citizens: _every_single_one_ of the illegal
immigrants
has committed _at_least_ one crime, that of entering the United
States in
violation of our immigration laws.

Many of them commit other crimes as well: driving without a license,
driving
without insurance, driving with a false license, registering to
vote...


You did not answer the question.

Yes, I did. You did not understand the answer. Read it again. And
again, as
needed until you grasp the concept: _every_ illegal alien is a
criminal.

Using that same definition of criminal means I am and I just want to
know if you are. So how about answering the question:

It only takes a simple yes or no. Have you every broken the law. Just
check the correct answer.

YES ( )

No ( )

Breaking a law criminal. I suppose you have heard of felonys,
misdemeanors and infractions?

--
Keith

Keith Williams wrote in
T:

In article ,
says...
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "Joseph
Meehan" wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "Joseph
Meehan" wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
...
First of all, nobody here, including Yanik, has ANY idea what
percentage of people coming from Mexico are carrying drugs.

Percentage or amoiunt of drugs carried does not MATTER;it's
still Mexican illegals committing crimes.


Have you ever broken an law. Do you have any information
indicating that illegal immigrants commit more crimes and more
serious crimes than US citizens?

It should be obvious on its face that illegal immigrants commit
more crimes
per capita than U.S. citizens: _every_single_one_ of the illegal
immigrants
has committed _at_least_ one crime, that of entering the United
States in
violation of our immigration laws.

Many of them commit other crimes as well: driving without a
license, driving
without insurance, driving with a false license, registering to
vote...


You did not answer the question.

Yes, I did. You did not understand the answer. Read it again. And
again, as
needed until you grasp the concept: _every_ illegal alien is a
criminal.

Using that same definition of criminal means I am and I just want
to
know if you are. So how about answering the question:

It only takes a simple yes or no. Have you every broken the law.
Just
check the correct answer.

YES ( )

No ( )

Breaking a law criminal. I suppose you have heard of felonys,
misdemeanors and infractions?


It's that "moral equivalence" thing;they can't differentiate.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Jim Yanik wrote:
...


Nonsense;they keep on driving without license,insurance,they use fake
documents to secure work.they still commit other crimes,too.
AGAIN,you try to mimimize the problems.

Frankly I am much more worried about the drivers who have lost the
licenses due to driving drunk and continue to drive. I would much rather see
my tax dollars going to get them off the road and into rehab or jail.

Have you every committed a crime like breaking the speed limit or
littering?

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2006 03:23:43 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


The only thing a gringo has to do is buy the overpriced Mexican rider
from a federale bribed insurer..

My insurer says Mexico and Canada are covered. The only thing I can't do
without more insurance is drive to Puerto Rico.


I suppose some insurers may be doing business in Mexico but every time
I have had reason to go there I hear you should get a rider. I suppose
this is like the extra insurance they sell you on a rental car.


In many cases, your auto insurance you already have has high enough
liability limits to meet the canadian/mexican legal requirements. All
you need is a document from your insurance company, usually acquired
weeks before you go if you are an infrequent visitor, that informs
authorities in the respective countries that you have insurance that
meets ther requirements. Your policy may not have enough liability
limits so you may need a short term increase in liability coverage, so
you need a rider.

Also note that Hispanic visitors to Mexico, US Citizens have been
required to post a bond at the border when driving across. This only
applies to those who do not live in the US communities that border
Mexico. The fear that the Mexicans appear to have is that the car is
being taken across to be sold.

Travel down US 59/77 from Houston to Brownsville and you will see
several caravans of older cars and light trucks southbound with Mexican
or Central American plates on them in addition to the Texas plates.
Asking questions says that almost all of them are bound for one of the
nations in Central America. Most of these vehicles are those that will
nto meet current clean air requirements anyway, so they are either
turned into scrap metal, or these guys take them down south.