Ahh you would pay LOTS more for all the things those illegals do.

Like food....

Its not a free lunch.

Frankly I think we would be better off to open the borders completely,
invite them in to work for companies competing with stuff from say
China/

At least that way the work is in the US.

If you were somehow able to force every illegal out our economy would
clollapse.

China is well on to taking over us market. Having a bIG pool of
immigrants willing to work cheap would help us compete.

all immigrants to stay here should pay taxes and be required tom learn
english, the official us language..

of course i think we should elminate the income tax altogether and go
the fair tax route, a national sales tax but thats a seperate issue.

if immigrant breakls the law, its instant deportation with a 5 year
wait to return. a second offense they are deported permanetely.

Think out of the box, the box isnt our friend..

May 01, 2006, 7:08 a.m.
A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
An imaginary exercise.
By Tom Tancredo

What would a day without illegal aliens really be like? Let’s try to
imagine it.

On May 1, millions of illegal aliens working in meat-processing
plants, construction, restaurants, hotels, and other “jobs Americans
won’t do” are supposed to stay home from work to show the importance
of their labor to our nation’s economy. Doubtless, there will be some
inconvenience if that happens, but there is another side to the story
that is not being reported.

We are talking about illegal aliens, not mere “immigrants.” If LEGAL
IMMIGRANTS stopped working for a day, we would miss the services of
physicians, nurses, computer programmers, writers, actors, musicians,
entrepreneurs of all stripes, and some airline pilots…as well as the
CEO of Google. That would be more than an inconvenience, but it won’t
happen because legal immigrants are not out marching angrily for
rights that are already protected by our courts.

But if ILLEGAL ALIENS all took the day off and were truly invisible
for one day, there would be some plusses along with the mild
inconveniences.

Hospital emergency rooms across the southwest would have about
20-percent fewer patients, and there would be 183,000 fewer people in
Colorado without health insurance.

OBGYN wards in Denver would have 24-percent fewer deliveries and Los
Angeles’s maternity-ward deliveries would drop by 40 percent and
maternity billings to Medi-Cal would drop by 66 percent.

Youth gangs would see their membership drop by 50 percent in many
states, and in Phoenix, child-molestation cases would drop by 34
percent and auto theft by 40 percent.

In Durango, Colorado, and the Four Corners area and the surrounding
Indian reservations, the methamphetamine epidemic would slow for one
day, as the 90 percent of that drug now being brought in from Mexico
was held in Albuquerque and Farmington a few hours longer. According
to the sheriff of La Plata County, Colorado, meth is now being brought
in by ordinary illegal aliens as well as professional drug dealers.

If the “Day-Without-an-Immigrant Boycott” had been held a year earlier
on May 8, 2005, and illegal alien Raul Garcia-Gomez had stayed home
and did not work or go to a party that day, Denver police officer
Donnie Young would still be alive and Garcia-Gomez would not be
sitting in a Denver jail awaiting trial.

If the boycott had been held on July 1, 2004, Justin Goodman of
Thornton, Colorado, would still be riding his motorcycle and Roberto
Martinez-Ruiz would not be in prison for killing him and then fleeing
the scene while driving on a suspended license.

If illegal aliens stayed home—in Mexico, Guatemala, Brazil, and 100
other countries—the Border Patrol would have 3,500 fewer apprehensions
(of the 12,000 who try each day).

Colorado taxpayers would save almost $3,000,000 in one day if illegals
do not access any public services, because illegal aliens cost the
state over $1 billion annually according to the best estimates.

Colorado’s K-12 school classrooms would have 131,000 fewer students if
illegal aliens and the children of illegals were to stay home, and
Denver high schools’ dropout rate would once again approach the
national norm.

Colorado’s jails and prisons would have 10-percent fewer inmates, and
Denver and many other towns would not need to build so many new jails
to accommodate the overcrowding.

Our highway patrol and county sheriffs would have about far fewer DUI
arrests and there would be a dramatic decline in rollovers of vanloads
of illegal aliens on I-70 and other highways.

On a Day Without an Illegal Immigrant, thousands of workers and small
contractors in the construction industry across Colorado would have
their jobs back, the jobs given to illegal workers because they work
for lower wages and no benefits. (On the other hand, if labor unions
continue signing up illegal workers, no one will be worrying about Joe
Six-Pack’s loss. Sorry, Joe, but you forgot to tell your union
business agent that your job is as important as his is.)

If it fell on a Sunday, Catholic Churches in the southwestern states
might have 20-percent fewer parishioners at Mass if all illegals
stayed home, but they would be back next Sunday, so the bishop’s job
is not in danger. The religious leaders who send people to the marches
and rallies will never fear for their jobs, because illegal aliens
need their special “human-rights” advocacy and some priests and nuns
seem especially devoted to that cause. The fact that most Catholics
disagree with the bishops’ radicalism doesn’t seem to affect their
dedication to undermining the rule of law.

All of this might be a passing colorful episode in the heated national
debate over immigration policy if it weren’t for an odd coincidence:
The immigration-enforcement agency responsible for locating and
deporting illegal aliens is also taking the day off today. Of course,
they didn’t call it a boycott. It is just (non)business as usual.

—Tom Tancredo is a Republican congressman from Colorado.

"KC" wrote in message
...
May 01, 2006, 7:08 a.m.
A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant
An imaginary exercise.
By Tom Tancredo

What would a day without illegal aliens really be like? Let's try to
imagine it.

On May 1, millions of illegal aliens working in meat-processing
plants, construction, restaurants, hotels, and other "jobs Americans
won't do" are supposed to stay home from work to show the importance
of their labor to our nation's economy. Doubtless, there will be some
inconvenience if that happens, but there is another side to the story
that is not being reported.

We are talking about illegal aliens, not mere "immigrants." If LEGAL
IMMIGRANTS stopped working for a day, we would miss the services of
physicians, nurses, computer programmers, writers, actors, musicians,
entrepreneurs of all stripes, and some airline pilots.as well as the
CEO of Google. That would be more than an inconvenience, but it won't
happen because legal immigrants are not out marching angrily for
rights that are already protected by our courts.

But if ILLEGAL ALIENS all took the day off and were truly invisible
for one day, there would be some plusses along with the mild
inconveniences.

Hospital emergency rooms across the southwest would have about
20-percent fewer patients, and there would be 183,000 fewer people in
Colorado without health insurance.

OBGYN wards in Denver would have 24-percent fewer deliveries and Los
Angeles's maternity-ward deliveries would drop by 40 percent and
maternity billings to Medi-Cal would drop by 66 percent.

Youth gangs would see their membership drop by 50 percent in many
states, and in Phoenix, child-molestation cases would drop by 34
percent and auto theft by 40 percent.

In Durango, Colorado, and the Four Corners area and the surrounding
Indian reservations, the methamphetamine epidemic would slow for one
day, as the 90 percent of that drug now being brought in from Mexico
was held in Albuquerque and Farmington a few hours longer. According
to the sheriff of La Plata County, Colorado, meth is now being brought
in by ordinary illegal aliens as well as professional drug dealers.

If the "Day-Without-an-Immigrant Boycott" had been held a year earlier
on May 8, 2005, and illegal alien Raul Garcia-Gomez had stayed home
and did not work or go to a party that day, Denver police officer
Donnie Young would still be alive and Garcia-Gomez would not be
sitting in a Denver jail awaiting trial.

If the boycott had been held on July 1, 2004, Justin Goodman of
Thornton, Colorado, would still be riding his motorcycle and Roberto
Martinez-Ruiz would not be in prison for killing him and then fleeing
the scene while driving on a suspended license.

If illegal aliens stayed home-in Mexico, Guatemala, Brazil, and 100
other countries-the Border Patrol would have 3,500 fewer apprehensions
(of the 12,000 who try each day).

Colorado taxpayers would save almost $3,000,000 in one day if illegals
do not access any public services, because illegal aliens cost the
state over $1 billion annually according to the best estimates.

Colorado's K-12 school classrooms would have 131,000 fewer students if
illegal aliens and the children of illegals were to stay home, and
Denver high schools' dropout rate would once again approach the
national norm.

Colorado's jails and prisons would have 10-percent fewer inmates, and
Denver and many other towns would not need to build so many new jails
to accommodate the overcrowding.

Our highway patrol and county sheriffs would have about far fewer DUI
arrests and there would be a dramatic decline in rollovers of vanloads
of illegal aliens on I-70 and other highways.

On a Day Without an Illegal Immigrant, thousands of workers and small
contractors in the construction industry across Colorado would have
their jobs back, the jobs given to illegal workers because they work
for lower wages and no benefits. (On the other hand, if labor unions
continue signing up illegal workers, no one will be worrying about Joe
Six-Pack's loss. Sorry, Joe, but you forgot to tell your union
business agent that your job is as important as his is.)

If it fell on a Sunday, Catholic Churches in the southwestern states
might have 20-percent fewer parishioners at Mass if all illegals
stayed home, but they would be back next Sunday, so the bishop's job
is not in danger. The religious leaders who send people to the marches
and rallies will never fear for their jobs, because illegal aliens
need their special "human-rights" advocacy and some priests and nuns
seem especially devoted to that cause. The fact that most Catholics
disagree with the bishops' radicalism doesn't seem to affect their
dedication to undermining the rule of law.

All of this might be a passing colorful episode in the heated national
debate over immigration policy if it weren't for an odd coincidence:
The immigration-enforcement agency responsible for locating and
deporting illegal aliens is also taking the day off today. Of course,
they didn't call it a boycott. It is just (non)business as usual.

-Tom Tancredo is a Republican congressman from Colorado.

OUTSTANDING POST! Thanks for posting it.

KC wrote:
...

I wonder.. Considering all but the Native Americans are illegal
immigrants or decedents of them I suspect it would be rather quiet.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Simply allowing illegal immigrants to become citizens
would be a slap in the face of every single LEGAL Immigrant
to this country that went through the process of
citizenship. I for one would be ****ed.

Did anyone catch one of the activists saying that they
want to fight for better healthcare, benefits and more
money??? I guess if they want that then having
illegal workers off the books pointless eh?

Maybe we have lost our ways... Everyone wants to
make a fortune for doing next to nothing. I for one would
pay a little more money to support our own workforce.
I would also increase the limitations for welfare.

I was in the middle of an arguement between to people
in class once. The class was american history and we
were talking about the 50's. The topic of welfare came up
and one girl said.. I dont understand why people need to be
on welfare, they just need to go out and get a job.
Another girl in the class ON welfare said to her, why should I
go get a job in McDonalds for $6.00 an hour when welfare pays
me $8.50 an hour for doing nothing. She made a valid point.

wrote:
Simply allowing illegal immigrants to become citizens
would be a slap in the face of every single LEGAL Immigrant
to this country that went through the process of
citizenship. I for one would be ****ed.

My my. Who said they would not need to go though a process to obtain
citizenship?

The issue really seems to be the limit on the number or and time allowed
for non-citizens to remain in the US. Many I am sure, do not wish to become
citizens. Many do.

This whole issue seems to center around two issues:

1. I got mine and I don't want anyone else to get theirs.

2. Fear and hate of all "Them" If they are not "Us" they are bad evil
....

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

wrote in message
oups.com...

I for one would
pay a little more money to support our own workforce.


But, who would get this extra money if we kicked all illegals out of the
country? Have you ever seen the backbreaking work involved in harvesting
certain crops? Would you want your kids to do that kind of work?

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
My my. Who said they would not need to go though a process to obtain
citizenship?

The issue really seems to be the limit on the number or and time
allowed for non-citizens to remain in the US. Many I am sure, do not wish
to become citizens. Many do.

One of the problems is so much mis-information. Amnesty? Send them all
home? Work permits? Free ride? Jail?

Joseph Meehan wrote:
wrote:
Simply allowing illegal immigrants to become citizens
would be a slap in the face of every single LEGAL Immigrant
to this country that went through the process of
citizenship. I for one would be ****ed.

My my. Who said they would not need to go though a process to obtain
citizenship?

Every one of them by the fact that they are trying to circumvent the
existing process. There IS an avenue for them to have come here
legally, you know.

This whole issue seems to center around two issues:

1. I got mine and I don't want anyone else to get theirs.
2. Fear and hate of all "Them" If they are not "Us" they are bad evil

No, the issue is #3

3. We have a process to come to the United States legally, so that you
are who you say you are, aren't a convicted criminal or gang banger or
child molestor or terrorist, and if you don't like the process we have,
then that's YOUR problem. Millions of other legal immigrants didn't
have a problem obeying our laws, and you shouldn't either. Not only
that, don't be shocked when there are some angry people in the United
States, people whose tax dollar go to provide you with free stuff, even
though you've invaded this country illegally. America is a nation of
LEGAL immigrants and rational people welcome legal immigrants with open
arms. But when you come here illegally, then have the nerve to DEMAND
the government disregard the fact that you broke the law, expect a
backlash.

"Larry Bud" wrote in message
ups.com...

Joseph Meehan wrote:
wrote:
Simply allowing illegal immigrants to become citizens
would be a slap in the face of every single LEGAL Immigrant
to this country that went through the process of
citizenship. I for one would be ****ed.

My my. Who said they would not need to go though a process to obtain
citizenship?

Every one of them by the fact that they are trying to circumvent the
existing process. There IS an avenue for them to have come here
legally, you know.

The funny thing is that they come here to work, which is more than can be
said about some of our legal citizens. You know: People who get a hangnail
and they're on disability for 3 years.

Doug Kanter wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

I for one would
pay a little more money to support our own workforce.


But, who would get this extra money if we kicked all illegals out of
the country? Have you ever seen the backbreaking work involved in
harvesting certain crops? Would you want your kids to do that kind of
work?

Sure, a bit of sweating won't hurt them. I remember watching kids get hay
in - tossing around 100# bales all day. That doesn't mean they have to
continue doing it...they could learn more, get better jobs, etc. Bet those
haying soon learned they better stay in school...


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"dadiOH" wrote in message
news:QLK5g.13$Th.3@trnddc03...
Doug Kanter wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

I for one would
pay a little more money to support our own workforce.


But, who would get this extra money if we kicked all illegals out of
the country? Have you ever seen the backbreaking work involved in
harvesting certain crops? Would you want your kids to do that kind of
work?

Sure, a bit of sweating won't hurt them. I remember watching kids get hay
in - tossing around 100# bales all day. That doesn't mean they have to
continue doing it...they could learn more, get better jobs, etc. Bet
those
haying soon learned they better stay in school...
dadiOH


A very smart past president suggested that ALL teens should spend some time
working the menial jobs, like cleaning hotel rooms, public bathrooms, etc.,
and be rewarded with a little scholarship money in return. Good idea, but
the idea never grew wings.

Maybe not so, for all.

We are a nation under law, and that should apply to all, starting from
the entry.

We have never offered guaranteed entry to anyone seeking better
economic conditions.

Nothing has been mentioned yet about the "carrying capacity" of our
landmass- our ability to share quality air, water, and food after all
the housing has been built. This is really a HUGE issue to some who
think.

If the big goal is to provide cheap lettuce-pickers and
burger-flippers, then we really should get over it, and get real.
"Their" kids- noabody's kids- want to be confined to that.

Note that many European nations do not even allow foreigners to own
real-estate.

Because we've been chumps does not lock us into that.

J

When an illegal alien finally comes across the border from Mexico and
winds up committing a terrorist attack on the US, then maybe the
politicians will finally do something to secure our borders. Right
now, they are totally out of control and no one should be surprised one
bit if the next Al Qaeda attack is via this route. It's not just
Mexicans coming across the border. It's estimated there are some
40,000 illegals a year crossing the Mexican border from countries
totally outside the region, like fromn Europe.

Bush had the opportunity to fix this in the months immediately
following 911. Now everyone is back in la la land. We are rapidly
losing control of this country. The fact that illegal aliens have the
balls to protest in the streets shows how far we've already fallen.

" wrote in
oups.com:

Ahh you would pay LOTS more for all the things those illegals do.

But than US citizens would have more money to spend here in the US.
Much of what illegals from Mexico earn gets shipped back to MEXICO to
support their families and never gets spent HERE. Then there's the savings
from lower crimes,and less-crowded emergency rooms and the costs of giving
them free medical treatment,among many other services that the US has to
supply illegals.

LOTS of savings there.Just ask the Colorado Governor(you can read what he
has to say on National Review online.)




--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in
:

KC wrote:
..

I wonder.. Considering all but the Native Americans are illegal
immigrants or decedents of them I suspect it would be rather quiet.


"native" Americans -migrated- from Asia via the Bering land bridge long
ago.
Mexicans are of mostly SPANISH descent.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in
:

wrote:
Simply allowing illegal immigrants to become citizens
would be a slap in the face of every single LEGAL Immigrant
to this country that went through the process of
citizenship. I for one would be ****ed.

My my. Who said they would not need to go though a process to
obtain
citizenship?

The issue really seems to be the limit on the number or and time
allowed
for non-citizens to remain in the US. Many I am sure, do not wish to
become citizens. Many do.

This whole issue seems to center around two issues:

1. I got mine and I don't want anyone else to get theirs.

2. Fear and hate of all "Them" If they are not "Us" they are bad
evil
...


No,it's "it's OUR country,and WE get to say who enters,and how they do it".

And "we don't reward illegal acts".(it just encourages more illegal acts)

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in
news:KoK5g.495$0v6.84@trndny05:


"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
My my. Who said they would not need to go though a process to
obtain
citizenship?

The issue really seems to be the limit on the number or and time
allowed for non-citizens to remain in the US. Many I am sure, do not
wish to become citizens. Many do.

One of the problems is so much mis-information. Amnesty? Send them
all home? Work permits? Free ride? Jail?




Reagan granted amnesty back in 1986,and after that the floodgates
opened;after all,one could expect another amnesty(and here we are again
considering it!!).
Reagan promised strict enforcement of illegal immigration after the
amnesty,and that was dropped immediately. We *rewarded* their illegal act
of "immigration" and of course got much more of it.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

On 2 May 2006 08:10:26 -0700, "Larry Bud"
wrote:

No, the issue is #3

3. We have a process to come to the United States legally, so that you
are who you say you are, aren't a convicted criminal or gang banger or
child molestor or terrorist, and if you don't like the process we have,
then that's YOUR problem. Millions of other legal immigrants didn't
have a problem obeying our laws, and you shouldn't either. Not only
that, don't be shocked when there are some angry people in the United
States, people whose tax dollar go to provide you with free stuff, even
though you've invaded this country illegally. America is a nation of
LEGAL immigrants and rational people welcome legal immigrants with open
arms. But when you come here illegally, then have the nerve to DEMAND
the government disregard the fact that you broke the law, expect a
backlash.


http://americandigest.org/mt-archives/006329.php


Oren

"My doctor says I have a malformed public-duty gland
and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therefore
excused from saving Universes."

"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

wrote in message
oups.com...

I for one would
pay a little more money to support our own workforce.


But, who would get this extra money if we kicked all illegals out of the
country? Have you ever seen the backbreaking work involved in harvesting
certain crops? Would you want your kids to do that kind of work?



Who did it before the massive influx of Mexicans?

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

wrote in message
oups.com...

I for one would
pay a little more money to support our own workforce.


But, who would get this extra money if we kicked all illegals out of the
country? Have you ever seen the backbreaking work involved in harvesting
certain crops? Would you want your kids to do that kind of work?



Who did it before the massive influx of Mexicans?
Jim Yanik

I'm vague about that, but I believe that in the days of family farms, the
larger ones still hired migrants, but they were citizens.

The bottom line here is, we have become dependent on having a very
low-paid underclass available to keep us supplied with low-cost
vegetables, domestic workers, construction workers, and so forth. Why
do you think Reagan gave the amnesty? Why do you think Bush is
considering it again? Here's a hint: It has nothing to do with being
fair, nice, or welcoming the wretched refuse of some other teeming
shore....It has to do with assuring a supply of low-cost workers for
big business.

When people say American citizens won't do those jobs, it's incorrect.
What we won't do is those jobs for that kind of money.

Jo Ann

wrote:

snip

if immigrant breakls the law, its instant deportation with a 5 year
wait to return. a second offense they are deported permanetely.

snip





Ahahahahahahahaha! How are you going to track that? You didn't even
know they were here in the first place until they committed the crime.
How are you going to track them after you deport them. Wait for them to
swipe a bar code after they jump the fence?? Tag with a GPS chip on
their ear and release?? Illegal immigrant means they don't do things in
a legal way. It means they don't wait for a 5 year period to return.
It means they don't stay away permanently.

wrote:
The bottom line here is, we have become dependent on having a very
low-paid underclass available to keep us supplied with low-cost
vegetables, domestic workers, construction workers, and so forth. Why
do you think Reagan gave the amnesty? Why do you think Bush is
considering it again? Here's a hint: It has nothing to do with being
fair, nice, or welcoming the wretched refuse of some other teeming
shore....It has to do with assuring a supply of low-cost workers for
big business.

When people say American citizens won't do those jobs, it's incorrect.
What we won't do is those jobs for that kind of money.

Jo Ann

These illegal workers aren't as cheap as some people think they are.
Who do you think pays for their visit to the ER when they get sick?
Who pays to educate their children? Who pays when they have an auto
accident and no insurance? Most of them are getting paid cash, off the
books, so they don't pay taxes, it's the rest of us footing the bill
for the above. Factor that in, and they aren't so cheap.

I wonder.. Considering all but the Native Americans are illegal
immigrants or decedents of them I suspect it would be rather quiet.


Mostly, the Native Americans *ARE* the decedants. Thats why,
as the progeny of the beneficiaries of an early open immigration
policy, I don't want to be on the other side of the equation.

It's a good way to end up administered to by the BIA. Not fun.

Oh... You meant DESCENDANTS. Well.. All I can say is,
adopting an open immigration policy as a source of cheap
labor didn't work out too well for Santa Anna, either...

The issue really seems to be the limit on the number or and time allowed
for non-citizens to remain in the US. Many I am sure, do not wish to become
citizens. Many do.

This whole issue seems to center around two issues:

1. I got mine and I don't want anyone else to get theirs.

2. Fear and hate of all "Them" If they are not "Us" they are bad evil
...


You choose to cast "the issue" that way because, if you paid any
attention at all to what people were actually concerned about,
you'd have to conceed that they're right.

But, who would get this extra money if we kicked all illegals out of the
country? Have you ever seen the backbreaking work involved in harvesting
certain crops? Would you want your kids to do that kind of work?

Yes.

When did you start being afraid of hard work?

After I got off work this afternoon
I stopped to do my weekly grocery
shopping at Wal-Mart that I would have done
yesterday.
What a nice experience it was! It took LESS
time because there were LESS of "those" folks
and their 5 or 6 kids clogging the aisles.
There were NO shortages of the products I
buy. (Didn't check the tortillas and chilies.)
My neighborhood was quiet this morning
no lawn equipment running. Traffic was light
cause I didn't have to dodge 95 trailers with
mowers and Mexico City driving rules.
A really splendiferous day!
Can we do it again.............ALWAYS?
Xeno

wrote:
When an illegal alien finally comes across the border from Mexico and
winds up committing a terrorist attack on the US, then maybe the
politicians will finally do something to secure our borders. Right
now, they are totally out of control and no one should be surprised
one bit if the next Al Qaeda attack is via this route. It's not just
Mexicans coming across the border. It's estimated there are some
40,000 illegals a year crossing the Mexican border from countries
totally outside the region, like fromn Europe.

Bush had the opportunity to fix this in the months immediately
following 911. Now everyone is back in la la land. We are rapidly
losing control of this country. The fact that illegal aliens have the
balls to protest in the streets shows how far we've already fallen.

Ya, but who started all this in the first place is what I want to know.
Things have not changed and this "problem" have been around. Why NOW and who
STARTED all this HYPE?

Politicians that want to....?

I think we should MIME the border.

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

wrote in message
oups.com...

I for one would
pay a little more money to support our own workforce.


But, who would get this extra money if we kicked all illegals out
of the country? Have you ever seen the backbreaking work involved
in harvesting certain crops? Would you want your kids to do that
kind of work?

Who did it before the massive influx of Mexicans?
Jim Yanik

I'm vague about that, but I believe that in the days of family farms,
the larger ones still hired migrants, but they were citizens.

The Rail Roads were built the same way. This goes WAY back and continues on
an international black market level.

"Just Bob" wrote in message
...


wrote:
When an illegal alien finally comes across the border from Mexico and
winds up committing a terrorist attack on the US, then maybe the
politicians will finally do something to secure our borders. Right
now, they are totally out of control and no one should be surprised
one bit if the next Al Qaeda attack is via this route. It's not just
Mexicans coming across the border. It's estimated there are some
40,000 illegals a year crossing the Mexican border from countries
totally outside the region, like fromn Europe.

Bush had the opportunity to fix this in the months immediately
following 911. Now everyone is back in la la land. We are rapidly
losing control of this country. The fact that illegal aliens have the
balls to protest in the streets shows how far we've already fallen.

Ya, but who started all this in the first place is what I want to know.
Things have not changed and this "problem" have been around. Why NOW and
who STARTED all this HYPE?

Politicians that want to....?

It's an election year.


I think we should MIME the border.

Excellent idea. Everybody hates mimes.

it's a start

Larry Bud wrote:
Joseph Meehan wrote:
wrote:
Simply allowing illegal immigrants to become citizens
would be a slap in the face of every single LEGAL Immigrant
to this country that went through the process of
citizenship. I for one would be ****ed.

My my. Who said they would not need to go though a process to
obtain citizenship?

Every one of them by the fact that they are trying to circumvent the
existing process. There IS an avenue for them to have come here
legally, you know.

You really think so? Then why do they do otherwise?

Do you have any idea of the obstacles that have been thrown in their
way?


This whole issue seems to center around two issues:

1. I got mine and I don't want anyone else to get theirs.
2. Fear and hate of all "Them" If they are not "Us" they are
bad evil

No, the issue is #3

3. We have a process to come to the United States legally, so that you
are who you say you are, aren't a convicted criminal or gang banger or
child molestor or terrorist, and if you don't like the process we
have, then that's YOUR problem. Millions of other legal immigrants
didn't have a problem obeying our laws, and you shouldn't either.
Not only that, don't be shocked when there are some angry people in
the United States, people whose tax dollar go to provide you with
free stuff, even though you've invaded this country illegally.
America is a nation of LEGAL immigrants and rational people welcome
legal immigrants with open arms. But when you come here illegally,
then have the nerve to DEMAND the government disregard the fact that
you broke the law, expect a backlash.

We also have a long long waiting list. .....

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

"Goedjn" wrote in message
...

But, who would get this extra money if we kicked all illegals out of the
country? Have you ever seen the backbreaking work involved in harvesting
certain crops? Would you want your kids to do that kind of work?

Yes.

When did you start being afraid of hard work?



I'm not. Follow me around the garden for a long Saturday and you'll be ready
for an ambulance. But I can envision a ****load of kids who'd be steered
away from this kind of work by parents who think it's "for others".

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Just Bob" wrote in message
...


wrote:
When an illegal alien finally comes across the border from Mexico
and winds up committing a terrorist attack on the US, then maybe the
politicians will finally do something to secure our borders. Right
now, they are totally out of control and no one should be surprised
one bit if the next Al Qaeda attack is via this route. It's not
just Mexicans coming across the border. It's estimated there are
some 40,000 illegals a year crossing the Mexican border from
countries totally outside the region, like fromn Europe.

Bush had the opportunity to fix this in the months immediately
following 911. Now everyone is back in la la land. We are rapidly
losing control of this country. The fact that illegal aliens have
the balls to protest in the streets shows how far we've already
fallen.

Ya, but who started all this in the first place is what I want to
know. Things have not changed and this "problem" have been around.
Why NOW and who STARTED all this HYPE?

Politicians that want to....?

It's an election year.


I think we should MIME the border.

Excellent idea. Everybody hates mimes.

When someone approaches they would put up their hands and stop them.

dadiOH wrote:
Doug Kanter wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...


I for one would
pay a little more money to support our own workforce.

But, who would get this extra money if we kicked all illegals out of
the country? Have you ever seen the backbreaking work involved in
harvesting certain crops? Would you want your kids to do that kind of
work?


Sure, a bit of sweating won't hurt them. I remember watching kids get hay
in - tossing around 100# bales all day. That doesn't mean they have to
continue doing it...they could learn more, get better jobs, etc. Bet those
haying soon learned they better stay in school...



Here's the problem that we face in agricultural communities and in big
cities.

Most of the folks that pick things like tomatoes, grapes, celery,
lettuce,...... are immigrants. Locals REFUSE to work these jobs.
Pushing the immigrants out would drive up labor rates for these jobs to
the point that locals WILL do it, but who wants to pay $2.50/lb for
tomatoes, $3.50 for a head of lettuce....

Most of the folks in the back of restaurants, hotels and the like are
immigrants, especially in the big cities, especially those in the south
and west. Drive these folks out and a budget meal at a Mexican,
Chinese, Italian restaurant will cost over $25 not including wine. A
Motel 6 room will cost over $100/night.

Lawn service crews, roofing crews, construction trades are all heavily
populated with first and second generation immigrants.

These immigrants don't displace local worker, they take jobs that locals
refuse to take because the jobs are too low in pay, the job keeps them
out in the sun all day, the work is seasonal, the work is physically
difficult, etc.

Throwing out the immigrants (legal or illegal) solves NOTHING. Kicking
them out creates HUGE problems in many cities with basic services.

If we want to sharply cut back the flow of illegal immigrants to the
USA, the issue is how to create better economic conditions in the areas
where they come from so the incentive to come to the USA is reduced.

"Just Bob" wrote in message
...


Doug Kanter wrote:
"Just Bob" wrote in message
...


wrote:
When an illegal alien finally comes across the border from Mexico
and winds up committing a terrorist attack on the US, then maybe the
politicians will finally do something to secure our borders. Right
now, they are totally out of control and no one should be surprised
one bit if the next Al Qaeda attack is via this route. It's not
just Mexicans coming across the border. It's estimated there are
some 40,000 illegals a year crossing the Mexican border from
countries totally outside the region, like fromn Europe.

Bush had the opportunity to fix this in the months immediately
following 911. Now everyone is back in la la land. We are rapidly
losing control of this country. The fact that illegal aliens have
the balls to protest in the streets shows how far we've already
fallen.

Ya, but who started all this in the first place is what I want to
know. Things have not changed and this "problem" have been around.
Why NOW and who STARTED all this HYPE?

Politicians that want to....?

It's an election year.


I think we should MIME the border.

Excellent idea. Everybody hates mimes.

When someone approaches they would put up their hands and stop them.




The white gloves would be visible at quite a distance. Nobody would need to
stop them - they'd flee.

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Just Bob" wrote in message
...


Doug Kanter wrote:
"Just Bob" wrote in message
...


wrote:
When an illegal alien finally comes across the border from Mexico
and winds up committing a terrorist attack on the US, then maybe
the politicians will finally do something to secure our borders. Right
now, they are totally out of control and no one should be
surprised one bit if the next Al Qaeda attack is via this route. It's
not just Mexicans coming across the border. It's estimated
there are some 40,000 illegals a year crossing the Mexican border
from countries totally outside the region, like fromn Europe.

Bush had the opportunity to fix this in the months immediately
following 911. Now everyone is back in la la land. We are
rapidly losing control of this country. The fact that illegal
aliens have the balls to protest in the streets shows how far
we've already fallen.

Ya, but who started all this in the first place is what I want to
know. Things have not changed and this "problem" have been around.
Why NOW and who STARTED all this HYPE?

Politicians that want to....?

It's an election year.


I think we should MIME the border.

Excellent idea. Everybody hates mimes.

When someone approaches they would put up their hands and stop them.




The white gloves would be visible at quite a distance. Nobody would
need to stop them - they'd flee.

To say noting about thier white faces. What's Mexican for VOODOO?

wrote:
On Tue, 02 May 2006 06:58:30 -0600, KC wrote:


What would a day without illegal aliens really be like?

Social Security would be in serious trouble more than now without
all those illegals.
Every dime put on a bogus SS number is a dime the governmemt will
never have to pay back. Some baby in Arkansas has his 40 quarters 100
times over and makes several hundred grand a year, in 40 states but he
will still only get a regular SS check when he is old.
If they really wanted to find the illegals they would put the IRS on
them, not the INS. Those are the folks who can follow the money.
On the other hand, if an "illegal" is willing to sign up, pay all his
taxes and work full time, I am not sure why we shouldn't give them a
green card.
If we really think SS can survive we need a ****load of new worker
bees at the bottom of the pyramid.
Also reject the idea that these folks are "stealing our jobs".
If some illegal, illiterate, non-english speaking Mexican peasant can
steal your dream job, a reassessmenmt of your career goals is in
order.

The IRS DOES come after them. One of the conditions of citizenship is
that you are current on your income taxes. In amny cases an immigrant
is claiming to be married to a legal, resident citizen (we've seen
movies about this too). That means before they goto the INS to apply
for citizenship (10s of thousands a year do this in Houston TX alone),
they have to file amended tax returns for 3 or more years to show the
income that they BOTH earned while they were living together as husband
and wife, one legal the other illegal.

Income tax services near the INS processing centers get a fair number of

wrote:
On Tue, 02 May 2006 06:58:30 -0600, KC wrote:

What would a day without illegal aliens really be like?
Social Security would be in serious trouble more than now without
all those illegals.
Every dime put on a bogus SS number is a dime the governmemt will
never have to pay back. Some baby in Arkansas has his 40 quarters 100
times over and makes several hundred grand a year, in 40 states but he
will still only get a regular SS check when he is old.
If they really wanted to find the illegals they would put the IRS on
them, not the INS. Those are the folks who can follow the money.
On the other hand, if an "illegal" is willing to sign up, pay all his
taxes and work full time, I am not sure why we shouldn't give them a
green card.
If we really think SS can survive we need a ****load of new worker
bees at the bottom of the pyramid.
Also reject the idea that these folks are "stealing our jobs".
If some illegal, illiterate, non-english speaking Mexican peasant can
steal your dream job, a reassessmenmt of your career goals is in
order.


Nobody is claiming that the illegal aliens are taking dream jobs. But
it's certainly reasonable to assume that they are taking some jobs that
could be filled by groups with high unemployment. Young blacks, for
example, have a very high unemployment rate. Not all these illegals
are working farms. They are everywhere.