Doug Kanter wrote:
wrote in message
...

On Mon, 08 May 2006 11:02:50 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


Therefore, they
have the advantage of immersion, which is the best way to learn a new
language and assimilate in other ways



Now I know you have never been to Miami.



I was about to ask "What do you mean?", but I'll guess:

1) They cluster in their own neighborhoods.

2) They don't speak English.

How many points do I get?



only two points, don't forget that Radio is filled with Hispanic
stations and Latin music.

TV channels, several of them in the big cities, have a curious mix of
pure spanish and Spanglish.

Print media in the large cities caters to the local mix. We have
several different flavors of newspapers for different parts of Central
America, Mexico, China, Vietnam, Korea, and even Thailand here in Houston.

The mix of stuff changes from city to city depending on whether
Mexico/Central/South America dominates its racial mix. Miami gets
Cubans, Houston, San Diego, Los Angeles, Chicago, Atlanta (and LOTs of
other places large and small) get Mexico/Central and South Americans.


First generation has LOTS of problems with language. Kids born here are
fluent in both what their parents speak and English, at least in most
cases. By the time third generation is around, accent is almost gone,
and the native tongue is spoken ONLY when grandparents are around. This
is true for almost ALL ethnic groups that have come to the USA, from
China, Africa, Europe, and other parts of the Americas.

"Robert Gammon" wrote in message
om...
Doug Kanter wrote:
wrote in message
...

On Mon, 08 May 2006 11:02:50 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


Therefore, they
have the advantage of immersion, which is the best way to learn a new
language and assimilate in other ways



Now I know you have never been to Miami.



I was about to ask "What do you mean?", but I'll guess:

1) They cluster in their own neighborhoods.

2) They don't speak English.

How many points do I get?


only two points, don't forget that Radio is filled with Hispanic stations
and Latin music.

TV channels, several of them in the big cities, have a curious mix of pure
spanish and Spanglish.

Print media in the large cities caters to the local mix. We have several
different flavors of newspapers for different parts of Central America,
Mexico, China, Vietnam, Korea, and even Thailand here in Houston.

The mix of stuff changes from city to city depending on whether
Mexico/Central/South America dominates its racial mix. Miami gets
Cubans, Houston, San Diego, Los Angeles, Chicago, Atlanta (and LOTs of
other places large and small) get Mexico/Central and South Americans.

If I could stand living in these cement-covered places, I'd love this kind
of mix.



First generation has LOTS of problems with language.

You know why that is, right?

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Robert Gammon" wrote in message
om...

Jim Yanik wrote:

Robert Gammon wrote in
. com:

We can agree that the coyote abuse the HELL out of their customers in
all sorts of ways. Well publicized case here in South texas where a
18 wheeler driver walked away from a rig in 90+ degree heat leaving 20
some odd Hispanic refugees to nearly all die in the heat last year.

However, the quantity of heroin and other controlled drugs sold in the
USA cannot be accounted for solely by the actions of mules. Yes,
there are drug mules, but I doubt that the folks who crontrol the bulk
of the narcotics trade use mules to move their product. Yes Jamacians
use mules to move drugs into Europe. I have doubts that the massive
cocaine production in South America, the massive poppy fields across
Asia move into the markets of the USA and Europe to any significant
degree in the guts of mules. Its hundreds of tons of this stuff
consumed each year, it can't all be coming in the guts of mules, only
a very very minor portion can be accounted for in this manner.


Which has NOTHING to do with the fact that it's illegal and illegal
"immigrants" are the ones committing the felonies by being drug mules.
How much doesn't matter,it's STILL a felony crime.This is just WEASELLING
AWAY from the claim that Mexican illegals don't commit crimes when coming
to the US.




We can both agree that crossing any of the borders of the USA without
permission is a violation of US Immigration Law, and we SHOULD not treat
violators of this law any differently than violators of any other law.
However, we do treat them differently than other criminals. Police
forces (state and local) are not on the lookout to arrest them, neither
are National Guard, or the FBI. Their faces and names are not posted in
Post Offices and Police Stations. We only have the US Border Patrol (on
land) and their bosses at the INS to enforce this law, and they do not
have the resources to shutdown illegal immigration. Heck the INS cannot
detect when a student overstays their visa to study at one of our
universities.

But to suggest that the heart of our drug problems would be solved by
getting rid of illegal immigrants who are being used as drug mules is
LUDICROUS!!! We cannot possibly attribute illegals who act as mules for
the TONS of cocaine, marijuana, heroin, hashish, etc that flow from the
Third World nations to other parts of the world, USA included. Yes,
Columbia uses Mexico as a path to the USA. They also use Florida, and
most of the Gulf Coast states to move their product into our system. If
drug mules were eliminated, the drug lords would find some other method to
get the product in. Heck, it would only make a difference to the marginal
distributor one who only needed to move modest amounts of product anyway.



Drugs are also coming over land borders with Canada, and even by canoe in a
few places, according to an interesting news story I saw a couple of years
back. And, the Coast Guard has stated clearly that there's no way they can
track every single pleasure boat that crosses the Great Lakes or the St.
Lawrence River.



Or Florida or Georgia or South Carolina or Mississippi or Alabama, or
Louisiana, or Texas (by god the hundreds of miles of isolated farmland
on the Texas Gulf coast alone could be an invitation to some, yet moving
it form the cost inland is a BIG problem.

Add in small planes who don't file flight plans with the FAA, fly in low
under radar until they are well inland, then land, dump their cargo and
flea to a legal airport.

"Robert Gammon" wrote in message
. com...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Robert Gammon" wrote in message
om...

Jim Yanik wrote:

Robert Gammon wrote in
. com:

We can agree that the coyote abuse the HELL out of their customers in
all sorts of ways. Well publicized case here in South texas where a
18 wheeler driver walked away from a rig in 90+ degree heat leaving 20
some odd Hispanic refugees to nearly all die in the heat last year.

However, the quantity of heroin and other controlled drugs sold in the
USA cannot be accounted for solely by the actions of mules. Yes,
there are drug mules, but I doubt that the folks who crontrol the bulk
of the narcotics trade use mules to move their product. Yes Jamacians
use mules to move drugs into Europe. I have doubts that the massive
cocaine production in South America, the massive poppy fields across
Asia move into the markets of the USA and Europe to any significant
degree in the guts of mules. Its hundreds of tons of this stuff
consumed each year, it can't all be coming in the guts of mules, only
a very very minor portion can be accounted for in this manner.


Which has NOTHING to do with the fact that it's illegal and illegal
"immigrants" are the ones committing the felonies by being drug mules.
How much doesn't matter,it's STILL a felony crime.This is just
WEASELLING AWAY from the claim that Mexican illegals don't commit
crimes when coming to the US.




We can both agree that crossing any of the borders of the USA without
permission is a violation of US Immigration Law, and we SHOULD not treat
violators of this law any differently than violators of any other law.
However, we do treat them differently than other criminals. Police
forces (state and local) are not on the lookout to arrest them, neither
are National Guard, or the FBI. Their faces and names are not posted in
Post Offices and Police Stations. We only have the US Border Patrol (on
land) and their bosses at the INS to enforce this law, and they do not
have the resources to shutdown illegal immigration. Heck the INS cannot
detect when a student overstays their visa to study at one of our
universities.

But to suggest that the heart of our drug problems would be solved by
getting rid of illegal immigrants who are being used as drug mules is
LUDICROUS!!! We cannot possibly attribute illegals who act as mules for
the TONS of cocaine, marijuana, heroin, hashish, etc that flow from the
Third World nations to other parts of the world, USA included. Yes,
Columbia uses Mexico as a path to the USA. They also use Florida, and
most of the Gulf Coast states to move their product into our system. If
drug mules were eliminated, the drug lords would find some other method
to get the product in. Heck, it would only make a difference to the
marginal distributor one who only needed to move modest amounts of
product anyway.



Drugs are also coming over land borders with Canada, and even by canoe in
a few places, according to an interesting news story I saw a couple of
years back. And, the Coast Guard has stated clearly that there's no way
they can track every single pleasure boat that crosses the Great Lakes or
the St. Lawrence River.


Or Florida or Georgia or South Carolina or Mississippi or Alabama, or
Louisiana, or Texas (by god the hundreds of miles of isolated farmland on
the Texas Gulf coast alone could be an invitation to some, yet moving it
form the cost inland is a BIG problem.

Add in small planes who don't file flight plans with the FAA, fly in low
under radar until they are well inland, then land, dump their cargo and
flea to a legal airport.


Even so, I think Mr. Yanik is right. I think one human can carry more heroin
or cocaine in a swallowed condom than can be packed into an airplane. It's
only logical. Think about it.

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Robert Gammon" wrote in message
. net...
wrote:
On Sun, 07 May 2006 18:43:23 GMT, "Dave" wrote:


Of course, English is the de facto official language of the WORLD,
most specifically including the United States of America. Why
would someone immigrate to the United States expecting to have to
speak French? Hint to the clueless . . . some things are so obvious
that they
don't need to be written down somewhere. Speak English, or go
home. -Dave


I suppose I just want the Mexicans to get the same consideration we
give Cubans. If you think Cubans "learn the language" it is obvious
you have never been to Miami. When they enter the country on a raft
"illegally" we let them stay with virtually no questions asked as
long as their feet are on dry ground when INS finds them. Castro
does not respond to"background checks", nor do we ask.


GREAT ANSWER.
Mexican and Central American illegal immigrants , by and large
seeking refuge from horrific economic conditions (and sometimes
political problems exist too) should not get better or worse
treatment than Cubans who are fleeing both political and economic
nightmares

Ah...but the Cubans are a special case. The reason for their special
treatment is rather circular. The person they're fleeing is an ***EVIL
COMMUNIST*** (everybody say "booooo"). By standing between these
special immigrants and the law, politicians gain votes. These
immigrants can vote because in many cases, when they arrive, they
drop right into a much stronger support system than people streaming
over the Mexican border. By support system, I mean friends & family,
and perhaps a job. Therefore, they have the advantage of immersion,
which is the best way to learn a new language and assimilate in other
ways. It also helps one gain citizenship more quickly. Become a
citizen, and you can vote for the person who helped you stay here.
And, you can make sure Cuba retains is special evil status for as
long as it takes for the rest of your family & friends to come here.
What Mexicans need is an evil leader with a special label like
"Communist". Unfortunately for them, there are no evil leaders with
similar special status.

That will be Bush's next job.

"Just Bob" wrote in message
. ..


Doug Kanter wrote:
"Robert Gammon" wrote in message
. net...
wrote:
On Sun, 07 May 2006 18:43:23 GMT, "Dave" wrote:


Of course, English is the de facto official language of the WORLD,
most specifically including the United States of America. Why
would someone immigrate to the United States expecting to have to
speak French? Hint to the clueless . . . some things are so obvious
that they
don't need to be written down somewhere. Speak English, or go
home. -Dave


I suppose I just want the Mexicans to get the same consideration we
give Cubans. If you think Cubans "learn the language" it is obvious
you have never been to Miami. When they enter the country on a raft
"illegally" we let them stay with virtually no questions asked as
long as their feet are on dry ground when INS finds them. Castro
does not respond to"background checks", nor do we ask.


GREAT ANSWER.
Mexican and Central American illegal immigrants , by and large
seeking refuge from horrific economic conditions (and sometimes
political problems exist too) should not get better or worse
treatment than Cubans who are fleeing both political and economic
nightmares

Ah...but the Cubans are a special case. The reason for their special
treatment is rather circular. The person they're fleeing is an ***EVIL
COMMUNIST*** (everybody say "booooo"). By standing between these
special immigrants and the law, politicians gain votes. These
immigrants can vote because in many cases, when they arrive, they
drop right into a much stronger support system than people streaming
over the Mexican border. By support system, I mean friends & family,
and perhaps a job. Therefore, they have the advantage of immersion,
which is the best way to learn a new language and assimilate in other
ways. It also helps one gain citizenship more quickly. Become a
citizen, and you can vote for the person who helped you stay here.
And, you can make sure Cuba retains is special evil status for as
long as it takes for the rest of your family & friends to come here.
What Mexicans need is an evil leader with a special label like
"Communist". Unfortunately for them, there are no evil leaders with
similar special status.

That will be Bush's next job.


Do you mean, "Who needs to be bombed next?", in an effort to ratchet up his
approval number with people who have nothing else to live for but violence?

Jim Yanik wrote:
"Squanklin" wrote in
oups.com:

posted: "all immigrants to stay here should pay
taxes and be required tom learn
english, the official us language.. "


This has probably been covered already, but English is not the
official language of the USA. We have no "official" language.


We overthrew the BRITISH (English-speakers) to form the United States.
The original 13 colonies were all English-speaking.
Thus,we ARE officially an English-speaking country.
All our official documents are in English,our legislation is done in
English.If not "official",then DEFACTO.

Ya, but making sure they understand English will accomplish what? They will
not be required to speak English right? Will there be free zones set up so
separate the languages? Will they be required to speak only English on the
job but not at the mall? What about the ones that have been 'legal' for
decades that will never change like the old? I am not defending anyone here
but really want to bring up all the permutations. I really don't see how
this could possibly work. This would be the only country that makes this
type of requirement. Look at Canada for example.

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Just Bob" wrote in message
. ..


Doug Kanter wrote:
"Robert Gammon" wrote in message
. net...
wrote:
On Sun, 07 May 2006 18:43:23 GMT, "Dave" wrote:


Of course, English is the de facto official language of the
WORLD, most specifically including the United States of America.
Why would someone immigrate to the United States expecting to
have to speak French? Hint to the clueless . . . some things are
so obvious that they
don't need to be written down somewhere. Speak English, or go
home. -Dave


I suppose I just want the Mexicans to get the same consideration
we give Cubans. If you think Cubans "learn the language" it is
obvious you have never been to Miami. When they enter the country
on a raft "illegally" we let them stay with virtually no
questions asked as long as their feet are on dry ground when INS
finds them. Castro does not respond to"background checks", nor do
we ask.

GREAT ANSWER.
Mexican and Central American illegal immigrants , by and large
seeking refuge from horrific economic conditions (and sometimes
political problems exist too) should not get better or worse
treatment than Cubans who are fleeing both political and economic
nightmares

Ah...but the Cubans are a special case. The reason for their special
treatment is rather circular. The person they're fleeing is an
***EVIL COMMUNIST*** (everybody say "booooo"). By standing between
these special immigrants and the law, politicians gain votes. These
immigrants can vote because in many cases, when they arrive, they
drop right into a much stronger support system than people streaming
over the Mexican border. By support system, I mean friends & family,
and perhaps a job. Therefore, they have the advantage of immersion,
which is the best way to learn a new language and assimilate in
other ways. It also helps one gain citizenship more quickly. Become
a citizen, and you can vote for the person who helped you stay here.
And, you can make sure Cuba retains is special evil status for as
long as it takes for the rest of your family & friends to come here.
What Mexicans need is an evil leader with a special label like
"Communist". Unfortunately for them, there are no evil leaders with
similar special status.

That will be Bush's next job.


Do you mean, "Who needs to be bombed next?", in an effort to ratchet
up his approval number with people who have nothing else to live for
but violence?

No, I mean he could apply for the position of evil dictator of Mexico when
he gets his ass kicked out of this country. They say he speaks fluent
Spanish so he must be better versed than he is in English.

Joseph Meehan wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "Joseph
Meehan" wrote:

The point is it is a bad hateful fearful decision.

Nonsense.

Please explain how wanting to make sure that the people who come here
are
employed (or at least employable), and do not have criminal records,
is "a bad
hateful fearful decision".

It seems to me that I have seen many reports that the common view
is they want to find and send back anyone, including those employed
who are here without permission.

I wonder if it would not be a good idea to put a fence around Iowa
and require the same kind of documentation?

How about your city. Would you support a law that no one with a
criminal record as a pedophile would be allowed in and make sure that
anyone who is not already there provide proof at the city limits that
they don't have such a record?

If a person from Jamaica for example wants to even VISIT the US they have
to have a sponsor. Someone that is responsible for them and their actions
among other things. Does anyone know how hard it is for one of them to move
here? This is no problem because there is a fence that works. There should
be a fence that works the same for everyone that wants to come here to
better themselves. Hey, I was born poor so what special consideration do I
get? If you are born in Mexico then too bad. No free ride.

"Just Bob" wrote in message
. ..


Doug Kanter wrote:
"Just Bob" wrote in message
. ..


Doug Kanter wrote:
"Robert Gammon" wrote in message
. net...
wrote:
On Sun, 07 May 2006 18:43:23 GMT, "Dave" wrote:


Of course, English is the de facto official language of the
WORLD, most specifically including the United States of America.
Why would someone immigrate to the United States expecting to
have to speak French? Hint to the clueless . . . some things are
so obvious that they
don't need to be written down somewhere. Speak English, or go
home. -Dave


I suppose I just want the Mexicans to get the same consideration
we give Cubans. If you think Cubans "learn the language" it is
obvious you have never been to Miami. When they enter the country
on a raft "illegally" we let them stay with virtually no
questions asked as long as their feet are on dry ground when INS
finds them. Castro does not respond to"background checks", nor do
we ask.

GREAT ANSWER.
Mexican and Central American illegal immigrants , by and large
seeking refuge from horrific economic conditions (and sometimes
political problems exist too) should not get better or worse
treatment than Cubans who are fleeing both political and economic
nightmares

Ah...but the Cubans are a special case. The reason for their special
treatment is rather circular. The person they're fleeing is an
***EVIL COMMUNIST*** (everybody say "booooo"). By standing between
these special immigrants and the law, politicians gain votes. These
immigrants can vote because in many cases, when they arrive, they
drop right into a much stronger support system than people streaming
over the Mexican border. By support system, I mean friends & family,
and perhaps a job. Therefore, they have the advantage of immersion,
which is the best way to learn a new language and assimilate in
other ways. It also helps one gain citizenship more quickly. Become
a citizen, and you can vote for the person who helped you stay here.
And, you can make sure Cuba retains is special evil status for as
long as it takes for the rest of your family & friends to come here.
What Mexicans need is an evil leader with a special label like
"Communist". Unfortunately for them, there are no evil leaders with
similar special status.

That will be Bush's next job.


Do you mean, "Who needs to be bombed next?", in an effort to ratchet
up his approval number with people who have nothing else to live for
but violence?

No, I mean he could apply for the position of evil dictator of Mexico when
he gets his ass kicked out of this country. They say he speaks fluent
Spanish so he must be better versed than he is in English.

Actually, I've heard the ****** try to speak Spanish. He ****ed it up, just
as he often does with his native language.

Doug Kanter wrote:
Even so, I think Mr. Yanik is right. I think one human can carry more heroin
or cocaine in a swallowed condom than can be packed into an airplane. It's
only logical. Think about it.


The published news stories about mules say 1/2 kilo or about 1 pound.
Considering teh quantities of cocaine pumped out of Columbia, and opium
poppy production spread out across Asia. IMPOSSIBLE to move that
quantity in human guts. Not enough willing to do it. Many dozens of
people a day are required to service a single major city with thedrugs
sold there.

I JUST DO NOT BELIEVE THAT SMUGGLING DOPE IN HUMAN GUTS IS A VIABLE
METHOD TO MOVE THE LARGE QUANTITIES PRODUCED.

Just Bob wrote:
Joseph Meehan wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:

In article , "Joseph
Meehan" wrote:


The point is it is a bad hateful fearful decision.

Nonsense.

Please explain how wanting to make sure that the people who come here
are
employed (or at least employable), and do not have criminal records,
is "a bad
hateful fearful decision".

It seems to me that I have seen many reports that the common view
is they want to find and send back anyone, including those employed
who are here without permission.

I wonder if it would not be a good idea to put a fence around Iowa
and require the same kind of documentation?

How about your city. Would you support a law that no one with a
criminal record as a pedophile would be allowed in and make sure that
anyone who is not already there provide proof at the city limits that
they don't have such a record?


If a person from Jamaica for example wants to even VISIT the US they have
to have a sponsor. Someone that is responsible for them and their actions
among other things. Does anyone know how hard it is for one of them to move
here? This is no problem because there is a fence that works. There should
be a fence that works the same for everyone that wants to come here to
better themselves. Hey, I was born poor so what special consideration do I
get? If you are born in Mexico then too bad. No free ride.



Same has been true for a US person visiting Japan for business purposes
in the past, not sure about now. Name, address phone number company
worked for and position there were all required for entry.

"Robert Gammon" wrote in message
om...
Doug Kanter wrote:
Even so, I think Mr. Yanik is right. I think one human can carry more
heroin or cocaine in a swallowed condom than can be packed into an
airplane. It's only logical. Think about it.


The published news stories about mules say 1/2 kilo or about 1 pound.
Considering teh quantities of cocaine pumped out of Columbia, and opium
poppy production spread out across Asia. IMPOSSIBLE to move that quantity
in human guts. Not enough willing to do it. Many dozens of people a day
are required to service a single major city with thedrugs sold there.

I JUST DO NOT BELIEVE THAT SMUGGLING DOPE IN HUMAN GUTS IS A VIABLE METHOD
TO MOVE THE LARGE QUANTITIES PRODUCED.


I was being facetious, Robert!

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Just Bob" wrote in message
. ..


Doug Kanter wrote:
"Just Bob" wrote in message
. ..


Doug Kanter wrote:
"Robert Gammon" wrote in message
. net...
wrote:
On Sun, 07 May 2006 18:43:23 GMT, "Dave"
wrote:
Of course, English is the de facto official language of the
WORLD, most specifically including the United States of
America. Why would someone immigrate to the United States
expecting to have to speak French? Hint to the clueless . . .
some things are so obvious that they
don't need to be written down somewhere. Speak English, or go
home. -Dave


I suppose I just want the Mexicans to get the same consideration
we give Cubans. If you think Cubans "learn the language" it is
obvious you have never been to Miami. When they enter the
country on a raft "illegally" we let them stay with virtually no
questions asked as long as their feet are on dry ground when INS
finds them. Castro does not respond to"background checks", nor
do we ask.

GREAT ANSWER.
Mexican and Central American illegal immigrants , by and large
seeking refuge from horrific economic conditions (and sometimes
political problems exist too) should not get better or worse
treatment than Cubans who are fleeing both political and economic
nightmares

Ah...but the Cubans are a special case. The reason for their
special treatment is rather circular. The person they're fleeing
is an ***EVIL COMMUNIST*** (everybody say "booooo"). By standing
between these special immigrants and the law, politicians gain
votes. These immigrants can vote because in many cases, when they
arrive, they drop right into a much stronger support system than
people streaming over the Mexican border. By support system, I
mean friends & family, and perhaps a job. Therefore, they have
the advantage of immersion, which is the best way to learn a new
language and assimilate in other ways. It also helps one gain
citizenship more quickly. Become a citizen, and you can vote for
the person who helped you stay here. And, you can make sure Cuba
retains is special evil status for as long as it takes for the
rest of your family & friends to come here. What Mexicans need is
an evil leader with a special label like "Communist".
Unfortunately for them, there are no evil leaders with similar
special status.

That will be Bush's next job.


Do you mean, "Who needs to be bombed next?", in an effort to ratchet
up his approval number with people who have nothing else to live for
but violence?

No, I mean he could apply for the position of evil dictator of
Mexico when he gets his ass kicked out of this country. They say he
speaks fluent Spanish so he must be better versed than he is in
English.

Actually, I've heard the ****** try to speak Spanish. He ****ed it
up, just as he often does with his native language.

I never really believed he was fluent at anything that mattered anyway.
Maybe doing lines and beering while out for a spin.

"Just Bob" wrote in message
...


Doug Kanter wrote:
"Just Bob" wrote in message
. ..


Doug Kanter wrote:
"Just Bob" wrote in message
. ..


Doug Kanter wrote:
"Robert Gammon" wrote in message
. net...
wrote:
On Sun, 07 May 2006 18:43:23 GMT, "Dave"
wrote:
Of course, English is the de facto official language of the
WORLD, most specifically including the United States of
America. Why would someone immigrate to the United States
expecting to have to speak French? Hint to the clueless . . .
some things are so obvious that they
don't need to be written down somewhere. Speak English, or go
home. -Dave


I suppose I just want the Mexicans to get the same consideration
we give Cubans. If you think Cubans "learn the language" it is
obvious you have never been to Miami. When they enter the
country on a raft "illegally" we let them stay with virtually no
questions asked as long as their feet are on dry ground when INS
finds them. Castro does not respond to"background checks", nor
do we ask.

GREAT ANSWER.
Mexican and Central American illegal immigrants , by and large
seeking refuge from horrific economic conditions (and sometimes
political problems exist too) should not get better or worse
treatment than Cubans who are fleeing both political and economic
nightmares

Ah...but the Cubans are a special case. The reason for their
special treatment is rather circular. The person they're fleeing
is an ***EVIL COMMUNIST*** (everybody say "booooo"). By standing
between these special immigrants and the law, politicians gain
votes. These immigrants can vote because in many cases, when they
arrive, they drop right into a much stronger support system than
people streaming over the Mexican border. By support system, I
mean friends & family, and perhaps a job. Therefore, they have
the advantage of immersion, which is the best way to learn a new
language and assimilate in other ways. It also helps one gain
citizenship more quickly. Become a citizen, and you can vote for
the person who helped you stay here. And, you can make sure Cuba
retains is special evil status for as long as it takes for the
rest of your family & friends to come here. What Mexicans need is
an evil leader with a special label like "Communist".
Unfortunately for them, there are no evil leaders with similar
special status.

That will be Bush's next job.


Do you mean, "Who needs to be bombed next?", in an effort to ratchet
up his approval number with people who have nothing else to live for
but violence?

No, I mean he could apply for the position of evil dictator of
Mexico when he gets his ass kicked out of this country. They say he
speaks fluent Spanish so he must be better versed than he is in
English.

Actually, I've heard the ****** try to speak Spanish. He ****ed it
up, just as he often does with his native language.

I never really believed he was fluent at anything that mattered anyway.
Maybe doing lines and beering while out for a spin.

He'd make a dandy doorstop, or paperweight.

In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
...
First of all, nobody here, including Yanik, has ANY idea what
percentage of people coming from Mexico are carrying drugs.

Percentage or amoiunt of drugs carried does not MATTER;it's still
Mexican illegals committing crimes.


Have you ever broken an law. Do you have any information indicating
that illegal immigrants commit more crimes and more serious crimes than US
citizens?

It should be obvious on its face that illegal immigrants commit more crimes
per capita than U.S. citizens: _every_single_one_ of the illegal immigrants
has committed _at_least_ one crime, that of entering the United States in
violation of our immigration laws.

Many of them commit other crimes as well: driving without a license, driving
without insurance, driving with a false license, registering to vote...


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"Just Bob" wrote in
:



Jim Yanik wrote:
"Squanklin" wrote in
oups.com:

posted: "all immigrants to stay here should pay
taxes and be required tom learn
english, the official us language.. "


This has probably been covered already, but English is not the
official language of the USA. We have no "official" language.


We overthrew the BRITISH (English-speakers) to form the United
States. The original 13 colonies were all English-speaking.
Thus,we ARE officially an English-speaking country.
All our official documents are in English,our legislation is done in
English.If not "official",then DEFACTO.

Ya, but making sure they understand English will accomplish what?

Then CITIZENS would understand enough English to VOTE,or take driving
tests,or understand any number of other government and private business.

They will
not be required to speak English right? Will there be free zones set
up so separate the languages? Will they be required to speak only
English on the job but not at the mall? What about the ones that have
been 'legal' for decades that will never change like the old? I am not
defending anyone here but really want to bring up all the
permutations. I really don't see how this could possibly work. This
would be the only country that makes this type of requirement. Look at
Canada for example.




Who gives a crap what Canada or other countries do?
Do you think European countries do official gov't business in any other
language than their national one? France or Germany? Italy?

Tell me;if you move to another country with a different language,do you
expect them to change things to accomodate YOU?
Or should you change to fit in with your new country?

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
news
"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .
wrote in
:

On Sat, 06 May 2006 14:46:44 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:

Sure, one guy can't carry very much on his person. But how much
can he put in the trunk of his car?
The wetback is in the trunk, along with 20 other guys. Not much
room for drugs. These folks usually walk and carry as much WATER
as they can, again not much room for drugs.



http://www.usbc.org/media/pr9708.htm
says otherwise.
Jim Yanik


Nice comment in that article:

"These diplomats are well aware of the fact that their citizens are
being exploited, robbed and even murdered by the coyotes who smuggle
them into our country. They are aware that many are carrying drugs
into America that will wind up in the veins of American children."

I wonder if Mr. Nelson would like to volunteer some of his officers
to crack down on liquor stores that sell booze to minors.




Again,the argument that because another problem exists,we should do
nothing
about this unrelated problem.Also,one is an internal affair,and the
other an external affair.
Jim Yanik

I'll bet you'd be the first to say that it's best to let consumer
demand determine market changes instead of letting the government
stick its nose into our affairs.




That does not include what language is the standard for our country.
You just want to ignore or drop established laws to accomodate illegals
entering our country.


--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Robert Gammon wrote in
om:

Jim Yanik wrote:
Robert Gammon wrote in
. com:

We can agree that the coyote abuse the HELL out of their customers
in all sorts of ways. Well publicized case here in South texas
where a 18 wheeler driver walked away from a rig in 90+ degree heat
leaving 20 some odd Hispanic refugees to nearly all die in the heat
last year.

However, the quantity of heroin and other controlled drugs sold in
the USA cannot be accounted for solely by the actions of mules.
Yes, there are drug mules, but I doubt that the folks who crontrol
the bulk of the narcotics trade use mules to move their product.
Yes Jamacians use mules to move drugs into Europe. I have doubts
that the massive cocaine production in South America, the massive
poppy fields across Asia move into the markets of the USA and Europe
to any significant degree in the guts of mules. Its hundreds of
tons of this stuff consumed each year, it can't all be coming in the
guts of mules, only a very very minor portion can be accounted for
in this manner.


Which has NOTHING to do with the fact that it's illegal and illegal
"immigrants" are the ones committing the felonies by being drug
mules. How much doesn't matter,it's STILL a felony crime.This is just
WEASELLING AWAY from the claim that Mexican illegals don't commit
crimes when coming to the US.




We can both agree that crossing any of the borders of the USA without
permission is a violation of US Immigration Law, and we SHOULD not
treat violators of this law any differently than violators of any
other law. However, we do treat them differently than other
criminals. Police forces (state and local) are not on the lookout to
arrest them, neither are National Guard, or the FBI. Their faces and
names are not posted in Post Offices and Police Stations. We only
have the US Border Patrol (on land) and their bosses at the INS to
enforce this law, and they do not have the resources to shutdown
illegal immigration. Heck the INS cannot detect when a student
overstays their visa to study at one of our universities.

But to suggest that the heart of our drug problems would be solved by
getting rid of illegal immigrants who are being used as drug mules is
LUDICROUS!!!

Back the truck up;you cannot cite where I said anything of the sort.
I only said it demonstrates how Mexican illegals do other crimes than just
illegal entry.You need to learn to read,or quit trying to TWIST the
argument to numbers and quantities.



--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


"Robert Gammon" wrote in message
om...
Jim Yanik wrote:
Robert Gammon wrote in
. com:
We can agree that the coyote abuse the HELL out of their customers
in all sorts of ways. Well publicized case here in South texas
where a 18 wheeler driver walked away from a rig in 90+ degree heat
leaving 20 some odd Hispanic refugees to nearly all die in the heat
last year.

However, the quantity of heroin and other controlled drugs sold in
the USA cannot be accounted for solely by the actions of mules.
Yes, there are drug mules, but I doubt that the folks who crontrol
the bulk of the narcotics trade use mules to move their product.
Yes Jamacians use mules to move drugs into Europe. I have doubts
that the massive cocaine production in South America, the massive
poppy fields across Asia move into the markets of the USA and
Europe to any significant degree in the guts of mules. Its
hundreds of tons of this stuff consumed each year, it can't all be
coming in the guts of mules, only a very very minor portion can be
accounted for in this manner.


Which has NOTHING to do with the fact that it's illegal and illegal
"immigrants" are the ones committing the felonies by being drug
mules. How much doesn't matter,it's STILL a felony crime.This is
just WEASELLING AWAY from the claim that Mexican illegals don't
commit crimes when coming to the US.




We can both agree that crossing any of the borders of the USA
without permission is a violation of US Immigration Law, and we
SHOULD not treat violators of this law any differently than violators
of any other law. However, we do treat them differently than other
criminals. Police forces (state and local) are not on the lookout
to arrest them, neither are National Guard, or the FBI. Their faces
and names are not posted in Post Offices and Police Stations. We
only have the US Border Patrol (on land) and their bosses at the INS
to enforce this law, and they do not have the resources to shutdown
illegal immigration. Heck the INS cannot detect when a student
overstays their visa to study at one of our universities.

But to suggest that the heart of our drug problems would be solved by
getting rid of illegal immigrants who are being used as drug mules is
LUDICROUS!!! We cannot possibly attribute illegals who act as mules
for the TONS of cocaine, marijuana, heroin, hashish, etc that flow
from the Third World nations to other parts of the world, USA
included. Yes, Columbia uses Mexico as a path to the USA. They also
use Florida, and most of the Gulf Coast states to move their product
into our system. If drug mules were eliminated, the drug lords would
find some other method to get the product in. Heck, it would only
make a difference to the marginal distributor one who only needed to
move modest amounts of product anyway.


Drugs are also coming over land borders with Canada, and even by canoe
in a few places, according to an interesting news story I saw a couple
of years back. And, the Coast Guard has stated clearly that there's no
way they can track every single pleasure boat that crosses the Great
Lakes or the St. Lawrence River.




Which has nothing to do with the Mexican border,where the majority of
illegal entry into the US occurs.

You an Gammon are trying to twist the argument into something else.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
.. .
Jim Yanik wrote:
..

So what? It's STILL an ILLEGAL ACT,a CRIME, a FELONY.
You said that the illegals("most of them") were not committing any
crimes except the crossiing itself.
I think you have your blinders on.

...


then why do the cartels still get people to swallow drug-filled
condoms?? The answer is that they'll use any and every way they
can.Including using illegals as "mules".

Think man, if someone is coming across illegally, why bother
swallowing
it. Just keep it in the back back and carry far more.

I fear you are looking for the type of arguments that fit your
opinion
and not taking the time to think critically about them.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit



First of all, nobody here, including Yanik, has ANY idea what
percentage of people coming from Mexico are carrying drugs.

Percentage or amoiunt of drugs carried does not MATTER;it's still
Mexican illegals committing crimes.

So, this
entire discussion is bull****.

The weaselling around the crime facts is BS.
Jim Yanik

So, if 10,000 cross the border, and 39 carry drugs, you think the
drugs are a big issue?




Its still AN issue.One MORE crime that illegals commit.
BTW,it's 100s of thousands crossing every year,if not more.
Nice try at minimalizing the problem.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


"Noozer" wrote in message
news:%7w7g.136209$7a.19691@pd7tw1no...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
.. .
Jim Yanik wrote:
..

So what? It's STILL an ILLEGAL ACT,a CRIME, a FELONY.
You said that the illegals("most of them") were not committing
any crimes except the crossiing itself.
I think you have your blinders on.

...


then why do the cartels still get people to swallow drug-filled
condoms?? The answer is that they'll use any and every way they
can.Including using illegals as "mules".

Think man, if someone is coming across illegally, why bother
swallowing it. Just keep it in the back back and carry far more.

I fear you are looking for the type of arguments that fit your
opinion and not taking the time to think critically about them.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit



First of all, nobody here, including Yanik, has ANY idea what
percentage of people coming from Mexico are carrying drugs. So,
this entire discussion is bull****. But, since we're knee-deep in
it, we may as well entertain the only theory that makes sense. If
someone is caught coming across, and they're not wanted for some
sort of crime, they're sent back with a slap on the wrist. They'll
try again later, maybe get caught again, or maybe be successful.
To carry drugs, they'd either need one hell of a good plan, or be
extremly stupid, since they lose nothing but time if they caught
carrying nothing.

Some here NEED to believe drugs are a major issue because it's
convenient for them to assign a "stupid" label to illegal
immigrants, along with all the other categories they'd like them
to fit into. But, they have no statistics to back up this belief.

The global economy is coming... No way to avoid it. If the U.S.
were smart, they'd put the laws in place to control the change of
their economy and then open the borders to all.

Protectionism only works in the short run, and you end up paying
double for it when it fails.


True, but I think this is racism as much as protectionism.



It's anti-CRIME.
You folks seem to want to excuse it.
Jim Yanik


No. We agree that crossing the border illegally is a crime. However,
some here (maybe you) have assigned all sorts of other sins to these
people. So far, I've seen drug smuggling, spreading disease, and bad
driving. Since we have no stats on any of these, I'm assuming they're
fictional until proven otherwise. And, if you choose to find stats,
you'll also needs stats indicating that legal residents are NOT
responsible for the same sins.




You can ASSume anything you want.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .
The Real Bev wrote in
:

Keith Williams wrote:

says...
Joseph Meehan wrote:
KC wrote:

I wonder.. Considering all but the Native Americans are illegal
immigrants or decedents of them I suspect it would be rather quiet.

They're immigrants from Asia. You think they grew from seed?

Well, yes. Didn't you? ;-)

Point taken! Still, land belongs to whoever owns it at the moment.
Right now it's people like Us. Sooner or later it will be owned by
people like Them.


To add to my last comment;if we choose to not defend the US against
invasion(and that is what it is),somebody else WILL own the US.

That is what it's about;border control. **OUR** borders.
Claiming it's "racism" is a stale,old,invalid tactic.
Jim Yanik

Where did your ancestors come from, and when?




they came through ELLIS ISLAND;**legally**. Around 1900. Hungarian.

How about YOU?

(did you know you can search the Ellis Island website and find out a lot
about your ancestors?)

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

On Mon, 08 May 2006 20:44:49 GMT, Robert Gammon
wrote Re A Day Without an Illegal Immigrant:

We can both agree that crossing any of the borders of the USA without
permission is a violation of US Immigration Law, and we SHOULD not treat
violators of this law any differently than violators of any other law.

Here's a solution:

Pass Federal legislation to fine employers $1000 per day per
illegal alien employed and give ordinary citizens the legal-
standing to bring suit in court. Within 3 days there will not
be an illegal employed in this country. Within 30 days they
will all be back in Mexico. Put the employers in jail and the
invaders will leave.

This is a good idea. Pass it on.
--
To email me directly, remove CLUTTER.

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .
Robert Gammon wrote in
om:

Jim Yanik wrote:
Robert Gammon wrote in
. com:

We can agree that the coyote abuse the HELL out of their customers
in all sorts of ways. Well publicized case here in South texas
where a 18 wheeler driver walked away from a rig in 90+ degree heat
leaving 20 some odd Hispanic refugees to nearly all die in the heat
last year.

However, the quantity of heroin and other controlled drugs sold in
the USA cannot be accounted for solely by the actions of mules.
Yes, there are drug mules, but I doubt that the folks who crontrol
the bulk of the narcotics trade use mules to move their product.
Yes Jamacians use mules to move drugs into Europe. I have doubts
that the massive cocaine production in South America, the massive
poppy fields across Asia move into the markets of the USA and Europe
to any significant degree in the guts of mules. Its hundreds of
tons of this stuff consumed each year, it can't all be coming in the
guts of mules, only a very very minor portion can be accounted for
in this manner.


Which has NOTHING to do with the fact that it's illegal and illegal
"immigrants" are the ones committing the felonies by being drug
mules. How much doesn't matter,it's STILL a felony crime.This is just
WEASELLING AWAY from the claim that Mexican illegals don't commit
crimes when coming to the US.




We can both agree that crossing any of the borders of the USA without
permission is a violation of US Immigration Law, and we SHOULD not
treat violators of this law any differently than violators of any
other law. However, we do treat them differently than other
criminals. Police forces (state and local) are not on the lookout to
arrest them, neither are National Guard, or the FBI. Their faces and
names are not posted in Post Offices and Police Stations. We only
have the US Border Patrol (on land) and their bosses at the INS to
enforce this law, and they do not have the resources to shutdown
illegal immigration. Heck the INS cannot detect when a student
overstays their visa to study at one of our universities.

But to suggest that the heart of our drug problems would be solved by
getting rid of illegal immigrants who are being used as drug mules is
LUDICROUS!!!

Back the truck up;you cannot cite where I said anything of the sort.
I only said it demonstrates how Mexican illegals do other crimes than just
illegal entry.You need to learn to read,or quit trying to TWIST the
argument to numbers and quantities.


Yes. Some Mexicans commit other crimes. Happy now? Good. But, it's
irrelevant until you can come up with STATISTICS from a reliable source,
which tell us how many are caught with illegal substances as they're
apprehended by border patrol agents. Are you clear on what I'm asking for?
Yes, or no?

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
news
"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .
wrote in
:

On Sat, 06 May 2006 14:46:44 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:

Sure, one guy can't carry very much on his person. But how much
can he put in the trunk of his car?
The wetback is in the trunk, along with 20 other guys. Not much
room for drugs. These folks usually walk and carry as much WATER
as they can, again not much room for drugs.



http://www.usbc.org/media/pr9708.htm
says otherwise.
Jim Yanik


Nice comment in that article:

"These diplomats are well aware of the fact that their citizens are
being exploited, robbed and even murdered by the coyotes who smuggle
them into our country. They are aware that many are carrying drugs
into America that will wind up in the veins of American children."

I wonder if Mr. Nelson would like to volunteer some of his officers
to crack down on liquor stores that sell booze to minors.




Again,the argument that because another problem exists,we should do
nothing
about this unrelated problem.Also,one is an internal affair,and the
other an external affair.
Jim Yanik

I'll bet you'd be the first to say that it's best to let consumer
demand determine market changes instead of letting the government
stick its nose into our affairs.




That does not include what language is the standard for our country.
You just want to ignore or drop established laws to accomodate illegals
entering our country.
Jim Yanik


In the same paragraph, you mentioned a standard language, and established
laws. Do you understand that there is no law establishing ANY language in
this country? Yes or no?

YES OR NO?

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


"Noozer" wrote in message
news:%7w7g.136209$7a.19691@pd7tw1no...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
.. .
Jim Yanik wrote:
..

So what? It's STILL an ILLEGAL ACT,a CRIME, a FELONY.
You said that the illegals("most of them") were not committing
any crimes except the crossiing itself.
I think you have your blinders on.

...


then why do the cartels still get people to swallow drug-filled
condoms?? The answer is that they'll use any and every way they
can.Including using illegals as "mules".

Think man, if someone is coming across illegally, why bother
swallowing it. Just keep it in the back back and carry far more.

I fear you are looking for the type of arguments that fit your
opinion and not taking the time to think critically about them.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit



First of all, nobody here, including Yanik, has ANY idea what
percentage of people coming from Mexico are carrying drugs. So,
this entire discussion is bull****. But, since we're knee-deep in
it, we may as well entertain the only theory that makes sense. If
someone is caught coming across, and they're not wanted for some
sort of crime, they're sent back with a slap on the wrist. They'll
try again later, maybe get caught again, or maybe be successful.
To carry drugs, they'd either need one hell of a good plan, or be
extremly stupid, since they lose nothing but time if they caught
carrying nothing.

Some here NEED to believe drugs are a major issue because it's
convenient for them to assign a "stupid" label to illegal
immigrants, along with all the other categories they'd like them
to fit into. But, they have no statistics to back up this belief.

The global economy is coming... No way to avoid it. If the U.S.
were smart, they'd put the laws in place to control the change of
their economy and then open the borders to all.

Protectionism only works in the short run, and you end up paying
double for it when it fails.


True, but I think this is racism as much as protectionism.



It's anti-CRIME.
You folks seem to want to excuse it.
Jim Yanik


No. We agree that crossing the border illegally is a crime. However,
some here (maybe you) have assigned all sorts of other sins to these
people. So far, I've seen drug smuggling, spreading disease, and bad
driving. Since we have no stats on any of these, I'm assuming they're
fictional until proven otherwise. And, if you choose to find stats,
you'll also needs stats indicating that legal residents are NOT
responsible for the same sins.




You can ASSume anything you want.
Jim Yanik


It's safe to say that if you'd added up all the minutes you'd wasted choking
your chicken here, you could've found the time to call the Immigration and
Naturalization Service, or the FBI, and gotten statistics to back up your
claims. I wonder why you won't do that.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. net...
In article , "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
...
First of all, nobody here, including Yanik, has ANY idea what
percentage of people coming from Mexico are carrying drugs.

Percentage or amoiunt of drugs carried does not MATTER;it's still
Mexican illegals committing crimes.


Have you ever broken an law. Do you have any information indicating
that illegal immigrants commit more crimes and more serious crimes than US
citizens?

It should be obvious on its face that illegal immigrants commit more
crimes
per capita than U.S. citizens: _every_single_one_ of the illegal
immigrants
has committed _at_least_ one crime, that of entering the United States in
violation of our immigration laws.

Many of them commit other crimes as well: driving without a license,
driving
without insurance, driving with a false license, registering to vote...
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)


Bull****. Every driver in this country has broken a traffic law, every
single time they get in the car.

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .
The Real Bev wrote in
:

Keith Williams wrote:

says...
Joseph Meehan wrote:
KC wrote:

I wonder.. Considering all but the Native Americans are illegal
immigrants or decedents of them I suspect it would be rather quiet.

They're immigrants from Asia. You think they grew from seed?

Well, yes. Didn't you? ;-)

Point taken! Still, land belongs to whoever owns it at the moment.
Right now it's people like Us. Sooner or later it will be owned by
people like Them.


To add to my last comment;if we choose to not defend the US against
invasion(and that is what it is),somebody else WILL own the US.

That is what it's about;border control. **OUR** borders.
Claiming it's "racism" is a stale,old,invalid tactic.
Jim Yanik

Where did your ancestors come from, and when?




they came through ELLIS ISLAND;**legally**. Around 1900. Hungarian.

How long was it before they owned property, especially something expensive,
like real estate or a car?

"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. net...
In article , "Joseph
Meehan" wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
...
First of all, nobody here, including Yanik, has ANY idea what
percentage of people coming from Mexico are carrying drugs.

Percentage or amoiunt of drugs carried does not MATTER;it's still
Mexican illegals committing crimes.


Have you ever broken an law. Do you have any information
indicating
that illegal immigrants commit more crimes and more serious crimes
than US citizens?

It should be obvious on its face that illegal immigrants commit more
crimes
per capita than U.S. citizens: _every_single_one_ of the illegal
immigrants
has committed _at_least_ one crime, that of entering the United
States in violation of our immigration laws.

Many of them commit other crimes as well: driving without a license,
driving
without insurance, driving with a false license, registering to
vote... Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)


Bull****. Every driver in this country has broken a traffic law, every
single time they get in the car.




Breaking a traffic law is nowhere near as bad as driving without a license,
registration,or auto insurance.
Your attempt at moral equivalence has failed.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
news
"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .
wrote in
:

On Sat, 06 May 2006 14:46:44 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:

Sure, one guy can't carry very much on his person. But how much
can he put in the trunk of his car?
The wetback is in the trunk, along with 20 other guys. Not much
room for drugs. These folks usually walk and carry as much WATER
as they can, again not much room for drugs.



http://www.usbc.org/media/pr9708.htm
says otherwise.
Jim Yanik


Nice comment in that article:

"These diplomats are well aware of the fact that their citizens
are being exploited, robbed and even murdered by the coyotes who
smuggle them into our country. They are aware that many are
carrying drugs into America that will wind up in the veins of
American children."

I wonder if Mr. Nelson would like to volunteer some of his
officers to crack down on liquor stores that sell booze to minors.




Again,the argument that because another problem exists,we should do
nothing
about this unrelated problem.Also,one is an internal affair,and the
other an external affair.
Jim Yanik

I'll bet you'd be the first to say that it's best to let consumer
demand determine market changes instead of letting the government
stick its nose into our affairs.




That does not include what language is the standard for our country.
You just want to ignore or drop established laws to accomodate
illegals entering our country.
Jim Yanik


In the same paragraph, you mentioned a standard language, and
established laws. Do you understand that there is no law establishing
ANY language in this country? Yes or no?

YES OR NO?




It's DEFACTO,do you know what that is? And LONG established.
Do you know what language the US Constitution is written in?

Yes,or No??

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Jim Yanik wrote:
"Just Bob" wrote in
:



Jim Yanik wrote:
"Squanklin" wrote in
oups.com:

posted: "all immigrants to stay here should pay
taxes and be required tom learn
english, the official us language.. "


This has probably been covered already, but English is not the
official language of the USA. We have no "official" language.


We overthrew the BRITISH (English-speakers) to form the United
States. The original 13 colonies were all English-speaking.
Thus,we ARE officially an English-speaking country.
All our official documents are in English,our legislation is done in
English.If not "official",then DEFACTO.

Ya, but making sure they understand English will accomplish what?

Then CITIZENS would understand enough English to VOTE,or take driving
tests,or understand any number of other government and private
business.

They will
not be required to speak English right? Will there be free zones set
up so separate the languages? Will they be required to speak only
English on the job but not at the mall? What about the ones that have
been 'legal' for decades that will never change like the old? I am
not defending anyone here but really want to bring up all the
permutations. I really don't see how this could possibly work. This
would be the only country that makes this type of requirement. Look
at Canada for example.




Who gives a crap what Canada or other countries do?
Do you think European countries do official gov't business in any
other language than their national one? France or Germany? Italy?

Tell me;if you move to another country with a different language,do
you expect them to change things to accomodate YOU?
Or should you change to fit in with your new country?

I agree with you but I ask how is this plan even going to work. Simple.
Nothing will change.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .
Robert Gammon wrote in
om:

Jim Yanik wrote:
Robert Gammon wrote in
. com:

We can agree that the coyote abuse the HELL out of their customers
in all sorts of ways. Well publicized case here in South texas
where a 18 wheeler driver walked away from a rig in 90+ degree
heat leaving 20 some odd Hispanic refugees to nearly all die in
the heat last year.

However, the quantity of heroin and other controlled drugs sold in
the USA cannot be accounted for solely by the actions of mules.
Yes, there are drug mules, but I doubt that the folks who crontrol
the bulk of the narcotics trade use mules to move their product.
Yes Jamacians use mules to move drugs into Europe. I have doubts
that the massive cocaine production in South America, the massive
poppy fields across Asia move into the markets of the USA and
Europe to any significant degree in the guts of mules. Its
hundreds of tons of this stuff consumed each year, it can't all be
coming in the guts of mules, only a very very minor portion can be
accounted for in this manner.


Which has NOTHING to do with the fact that it's illegal and illegal
"immigrants" are the ones committing the felonies by being drug
mules. How much doesn't matter,it's STILL a felony crime.This is
just WEASELLING AWAY from the claim that Mexican illegals don't
commit crimes when coming to the US.




We can both agree that crossing any of the borders of the USA
without permission is a violation of US Immigration Law, and we
SHOULD not treat violators of this law any differently than
violators of any other law. However, we do treat them differently
than other criminals. Police forces (state and local) are not on
the lookout to arrest them, neither are National Guard, or the FBI.
Their faces and names are not posted in Post Offices and Police
Stations. We only have the US Border Patrol (on land) and their
bosses at the INS to enforce this law, and they do not have the
resources to shutdown illegal immigration. Heck the INS cannot
detect when a student overstays their visa to study at one of our
universities.

But to suggest that the heart of our drug problems would be solved
by getting rid of illegal immigrants who are being used as drug
mules is LUDICROUS!!!

Back the truck up;you cannot cite where I said anything of the sort.
I only said it demonstrates how Mexican illegals do other crimes than
just illegal entry.You need to learn to read,or quit trying to TWIST
the argument to numbers and quantities.


Yes. Some Mexicans commit other crimes. Happy now? Good. But, it's
irrelevant until you can come up with STATISTICS from a reliable
source, which tell us how many are caught with illegal substances as
they're apprehended by border patrol agents. Are you clear on what I'm
asking for? Yes, or no?




Yes,I'm aware you're trying to minimize the illegals crimes by asking for
numbers.
It's also hard to establish any stats when local or state police are not
allowed to inquire about immigration status.(due to people like you)



--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .
The Real Bev wrote in
:

Keith Williams wrote:

says...
Joseph Meehan wrote:
KC wrote:

I wonder.. Considering all but the Native Americans are
illegal immigrants or decedents of them I suspect it would be
rather quiet.

They're immigrants from Asia. You think they grew from seed?

Well, yes. Didn't you? ;-)

Point taken! Still, land belongs to whoever owns it at the
moment. Right now it's people like Us. Sooner or later it will be
owned by people like Them.


To add to my last comment;if we choose to not defend the US against
invasion(and that is what it is),somebody else WILL own the US.

That is what it's about;border control. **OUR** borders.
Claiming it's "racism" is a stale,old,invalid tactic.
Jim Yanik

Where did your ancestors come from, and when?




they came through ELLIS ISLAND;**legally**. Around 1900. Hungarian.

How long was it before they owned property, especially something
expensive, like real estate or a car?



I have no idea.
What has that to do with illegal entry and residence in the US?
OR,are you trying for ANOTHER twist?

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .
Robert Gammon wrote in
om:

Jim Yanik wrote:
Robert Gammon wrote in
. com:

We can agree that the coyote abuse the HELL out of their customers
in all sorts of ways. Well publicized case here in South texas
where a 18 wheeler driver walked away from a rig in 90+ degree
heat leaving 20 some odd Hispanic refugees to nearly all die in
the heat last year.

However, the quantity of heroin and other controlled drugs sold in
the USA cannot be accounted for solely by the actions of mules.
Yes, there are drug mules, but I doubt that the folks who crontrol
the bulk of the narcotics trade use mules to move their product.
Yes Jamacians use mules to move drugs into Europe. I have doubts
that the massive cocaine production in South America, the massive
poppy fields across Asia move into the markets of the USA and
Europe to any significant degree in the guts of mules. Its
hundreds of tons of this stuff consumed each year, it can't all be
coming in the guts of mules, only a very very minor portion can be
accounted for in this manner.


Which has NOTHING to do with the fact that it's illegal and illegal
"immigrants" are the ones committing the felonies by being drug
mules. How much doesn't matter,it's STILL a felony crime.This is
just WEASELLING AWAY from the claim that Mexican illegals don't
commit crimes when coming to the US.




We can both agree that crossing any of the borders of the USA
without permission is a violation of US Immigration Law, and we
SHOULD not treat violators of this law any differently than
violators of any other law. However, we do treat them differently
than other criminals. Police forces (state and local) are not on
the lookout to arrest them, neither are National Guard, or the FBI.
Their faces and names are not posted in Post Offices and Police
Stations. We only have the US Border Patrol (on land) and their
bosses at the INS to enforce this law, and they do not have the
resources to shutdown illegal immigration. Heck the INS cannot
detect when a student overstays their visa to study at one of our
universities.

But to suggest that the heart of our drug problems would be solved
by getting rid of illegal immigrants who are being used as drug
mules is LUDICROUS!!!

Back the truck up;you cannot cite where I said anything of the sort.
I only said it demonstrates how Mexican illegals do other crimes than
just illegal entry.You need to learn to read,or quit trying to TWIST
the argument to numbers and quantities.


Yes. Some Mexicans commit other crimes. Happy now? Good. But, it's
irrelevant until you can come up with STATISTICS from a reliable
source, which tell us how many are caught with illegal substances as
they're apprehended by border patrol agents. Are you clear on what I'm
asking for? Yes, or no?




Yes,I'm aware you're trying to minimize the illegals crimes by asking for
numbers.

You are basing most of your beliefs on crimes committed by illegals, OTHER
THAN the simple fact that they crossed the border illegally. How could I be
minimizing "crimes" while you "maximize" them?



It's also hard to establish any stats when local or state police are not
allowed to inquire about immigration status.(due to people like you)

I have no idea what you're talking about. But, it doesn't matter. I told you
to get stats from one agency: The INS. I don't care what other police
agencies have in their files.

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
news
"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .
wrote in
:

On Sat, 06 May 2006 14:46:44 GMT, (Doug
Miller) wrote:

Sure, one guy can't carry very much on his person. But how much
can he put in the trunk of his car?
The wetback is in the trunk, along with 20 other guys. Not much
room for drugs. These folks usually walk and carry as much WATER
as they can, again not much room for drugs.



http://www.usbc.org/media/pr9708.htm
says otherwise.
Jim Yanik


Nice comment in that article:

"These diplomats are well aware of the fact that their citizens
are being exploited, robbed and even murdered by the coyotes who
smuggle them into our country. They are aware that many are
carrying drugs into America that will wind up in the veins of
American children."

I wonder if Mr. Nelson would like to volunteer some of his
officers to crack down on liquor stores that sell booze to minors.




Again,the argument that because another problem exists,we should do
nothing
about this unrelated problem.Also,one is an internal affair,and the
other an external affair.
Jim Yanik

I'll bet you'd be the first to say that it's best to let consumer
demand determine market changes instead of letting the government
stick its nose into our affairs.




That does not include what language is the standard for our country.
You just want to ignore or drop established laws to accomodate
illegals entering our country.
Jim Yanik


In the same paragraph, you mentioned a standard language, and
established laws. Do you understand that there is no law establishing
ANY language in this country? Yes or no?

YES OR NO?




It's DEFACTO,do you know what that is? And LONG established.
Do you know what language the US Constitution is written in?

Yes,or No??
Jim Yanik


Sorry, but you insinuated that there's a law involving language. You are not
personally affected by the language spoken by other people. It really
doesn't matter to you. You simply don't like these people. It wouldn't
matter if they spoke English.

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. net...
In article , "Joseph
Meehan" wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
...
First of all, nobody here, including Yanik, has ANY idea what
percentage of people coming from Mexico are carrying drugs.

Percentage or amoiunt of drugs carried does not MATTER;it's still
Mexican illegals committing crimes.


Have you ever broken an law. Do you have any information
indicating
that illegal immigrants commit more crimes and more serious crimes
than US citizens?

It should be obvious on its face that illegal immigrants commit more
crimes
per capita than U.S. citizens: _every_single_one_ of the illegal
immigrants
has committed _at_least_ one crime, that of entering the United
States in violation of our immigration laws.

Many of them commit other crimes as well: driving without a license,
driving
without insurance, driving with a false license, registering to
vote... Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)


Bull****. Every driver in this country has broken a traffic law, every
single time they get in the car.




Breaking a traffic law is nowhere near as bad as driving without a
license,
registration,or auto insurance.
Your attempt at moral equivalence has failed.

--
Jim Yanik

Going 82 in a 35 zone is not as bad as driving without a license. Got it. Do
me a favor, will ya? Next time you want to write something as silly as your
last comment, walk away from the computer for 10 minutes, then come back.

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .

they came through ELLIS ISLAND;**legally**. Around 1900. Hungarian.

How long was it before they owned property, especially something
expensive, like real estate or a car?

I have no idea.
What has that to do with illegal entry and residence in the US?
OR,are you trying for ANOTHER twist?
Jim Yanik


You seem to have issues with keeping track of conversations. Earlier,
someone said this:

Point taken! Still, land belongs to whoever owns it at the moment.
Right now it's people like Us. Sooner or later it will be owned by
people like Them.


You responded by saying this:

"Only if we let Them."


There's your relevance. When your ancestors came from Hungary, I can assure
you that someone just like you was saying "Only if we let them".

Got it now?

HA,
Importance of their labor. I ask you what happened that day? Nothing.
No one really needs the illegals, they are just leaching off OUR
government and hospitals so big business can get near slave labor. They
need to go. And you know why they never want to go through immagration?
Because they are criminals! Other than that who would hop the fence
when they can just go through immagration. And why should we adapt own
language and signs to help people who aren't suposed to be here in the
first place?
And stop throwing the race card this isn't about legal immigrants, this
is about people who (even if they weren't before) become criminals by
crossing into our land with out registration. I encorage Mexicans to
immagrate legally but by the illegal immagration is the problem.
I ask you what other country would put up with this border hopping BS
that isn't 3rd world?
HVF

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "Joseph
Meehan" wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
...
First of all, nobody here, including Yanik, has ANY idea what
percentage of people coming from Mexico are carrying drugs.

Percentage or amoiunt of drugs carried does not MATTER;it's still
Mexican illegals committing crimes.


Have you ever broken an law. Do you have any information
indicating that illegal immigrants commit more crimes and more
serious crimes than US citizens?

It should be obvious on its face that illegal immigrants commit more
crimes
per capita than U.S. citizens: _every_single_one_ of the illegal
immigrants
has committed _at_least_ one crime, that of entering the United
States in
violation of our immigration laws.

Many of them commit other crimes as well: driving without a license,
driving
without insurance, driving with a false license, registering to
vote...


You did not answer the question.

Let me add to it. How often in the last week have you broken the law?
Dropped a piece of paper on the street, speeded, even one mph over the legal
limit, j-walked etc.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit