On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 20:50:17 -0500, Bill wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 08:55:52 -0500,
wrote:

On 1/24/2012 7:00 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:32:57 -0500, wrote:
Can anyone recommend a suitable leather source/product for this purpose
(cows excluded)?

Tanned, 1" or wider is what I used. I think it was 10oz. 4-5mm or
3/16". http://tinyurl.com/7oabn8y I had bought scraps (5# for $5)
from a carriage, chest, and harnessmaker back on the East coast.
Glue the rough side down, smear some green on 'er, and hone away!
I think mine's about 1-1/2" wide by 15" long on a piece of baltic
birch plywood.


Larry, Thanks for the suggestion/link. The vegetable-tanned leather
doesn't sound like the right stuff,

Veg, brain, or chrome, it don't think it matters for a strop.
http://tinyurl.com/7t699yn


so I'm going try my old belt which
is a full 1/8" thick (too) and convenient. Hopefully, the embossing
won't be an issue. - W.W.

It will. I recommend against it, unless the back is smooth and can be
charged.


As always, thank you for your support!

That'll be $37.50. Got my account numbers?

--
The most powerful factors in the world are clear
ideas in the minds of energetic men of good will.
-- J. Arthur Thomson

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 20:50:17 -0500, wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 08:55:52 -0500,
wrote:

On 1/24/2012 7:00 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:32:57 -0500, wrote:
Can anyone recommend a suitable leather source/product for this purpose
(cows excluded)?

Tanned, 1" or wider is what I used. I think it was 10oz. 4-5mm or
3/16". http://tinyurl.com/7oabn8y I had bought scraps (5# for $5)
from a carriage, chest, and harnessmaker back on the East coast.
Glue the rough side down, smear some green on 'er, and hone away!
I think mine's about 1-1/2" wide by 15" long on a piece of baltic
birch plywood.


Larry, Thanks for the suggestion/link. The vegetable-tanned leather
doesn't sound like the right stuff,

Veg, brain, or chrome, it don't think it matters for a strop.
http://tinyurl.com/7t699yn


so I'm going try my old belt which
is a full 1/8" thick (too) and convenient. Hopefully, the embossing
won't be an issue. - W.W.

It will. I recommend against it, unless the back is smooth and can be
charged.

Ratts! I was afraid of that.



As always, thank you for your support!

That'll be $37.50. Got my account numbers?

I guess so, but I don't have $37.50 handy. ; )


--
The most powerful factors in the world are clear
ideas in the minds of energetic men of good will.
-- J. Arthur Thomson

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 00:32:57 -0500, Bill wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 20:50:17 -0500, wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 08:55:52 -0500,
wrote:

On 1/24/2012 7:00 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:32:57 -0500, wrote:
Can anyone recommend a suitable leather source/product for this purpose
(cows excluded)?

Tanned, 1" or wider is what I used. I think it was 10oz. 4-5mm or
3/16". http://tinyurl.com/7oabn8y I had bought scraps (5# for $5)
from a carriage, chest, and harnessmaker back on the East coast.
Glue the rough side down, smear some green on 'er, and hone away!
I think mine's about 1-1/2" wide by 15" long on a piece of baltic
birch plywood.


Larry, Thanks for the suggestion/link. The vegetable-tanned leather
doesn't sound like the right stuff,

Veg, brain, or chrome, it don't think it matters for a strop.
http://tinyurl.com/7t699yn


so I'm going try my old belt which
is a full 1/8" thick (too) and convenient. Hopefully, the embossing
won't be an issue. - W.W.

It will. I recommend against it, unless the back is smooth and can be
charged.

Ratts! I was afraid of that.



As always, thank you for your support!

That'll be $37.50. Got my account numbers?

I guess so, but I don't have $37.50 handy. ; )

I know. You have failed to pay any of the other tickies, either.
I'll add it to your bill, Bill.

--
The most powerful factors in the world are clear
ideas in the minds of energetic men of good will.
-- J. Arthur Thomson

On 1/24/2012 10:33 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 1/24/2012 10:19 AM, Bill wrote:

Thank you rpb, that sounds like a good suggestion. Gluing top side down,
say on level piece of hardboard, might possibly help too. I just "know"
the wood is not going to cooperate with me on this! ; )

Go to:

http://e-woodshop.net/Projects5.htm

... and scroll most of the way down the page to the date 3/20-25/04 to
get one idea on how to do an extra wide panel glue-ups.

Note: jointing the edges of couple of 2 x 4's, and attaching them,
jointed side up, to a flat surface; then using the jointed surface of
the 2x 4's to support the glue-up, serves a dual purpose ... in both
helping to keep things flat, and allowing you to alternate clamping
pressure from top and underneath so that all your clamping force is not
across one surface:

http://e-woodshop.net/images/Trestle%20Table8.jpg



Hummmm a use for my mortiser that I had not thought of yet. ;~)

On 1/24/2012 3:29 PM, Drew Lawson wrote:
In articlel5GdnT0RtpaUgILSnZ2dnUVZ5v2dnZ2d@giganews. com
Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:

Tommy Mac.... you have to understand Juersey to understand a word he
says. ;~)

Strangest spelling I've ever seen for "Massachusetts."


http://www.thomasjmacdonald.com/abouttommy.php


Hey that link say where he is from not from where he got his accent. ;~)

From Texas all of those NE accents sound the same.

On 1/24/2012 6:05 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:

If a TS is set up properly with a good blade it can produce a smoother
edge than the typical jointer.

If you go by the rules the jointer is used on only two surfaces, to
straighten the edge and flatten the face. The opposite edge is
straightened by thee TS. The opposite surface is flattened by a planer.

Thank you for the reminder: That makes perfect sense. It wasn't always
that way! ; )



I can't say. It was not always that way for me until I started buying
quality blades.

I recall in shop class in 1968 you would receive 3 licks if caught using
the jointer to surface more one edge and one side or to clean up a an
edge after going through the TS. ;~)

Maybe that was what those hand planes were for. ;~)

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 1/24/2012 6:05 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:


I recall in shop class in 1968 you would receive 3 licks if caught using
the jointer to surface more one edge and one side or to clean up a an edge
after going through the TS. ;~)

I think some guys were and are unreasonable... I cannot tell you how many
times I've uncovered defects on the first jointed edge or face of rough cut
that led me to joint the opposite edge and/or face so that the defect would
be removed by the thickness planer or saw in final dimensioning... I see it
as a lack of reasonableness in their position on things.

John

Leon wrote:


From Texas all of those NE accents sound the same.

Oh, that's only because we say "You guys..."

--

-Mike-

On 1/25/2012 10:02 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 1/24/2012 6:05 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:


I recall in shop class in 1968 you would receive 3 licks if caught
using the jointer to surface more one edge and one side or to clean up
a an edge after going through the TS. ;~)

I think some guys were and are unreasonable... I cannot tell you how
many times I've uncovered defects on the first jointed edge or face of
rough cut that led me to joint the opposite edge and/or face so that the
defect would be removed by the thickness planer or saw in final
dimensioning... I see it as a lack of reasonableness in their position
on things.

John


Then you would proceed with straightening the opposite edge as usual
with the TS, flipping the board, and cutting the board to width with the
defect on the waste side.
Same would apply to a face with a defect.

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 1/25/2012 10:02 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 1/24/2012 6:05 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:


I recall in shop class in 1968 you would receive 3 licks if caught
using the jointer to surface more one edge and one side or to clean up
a an edge after going through the TS. ;~)

I think some guys were and are unreasonable... I cannot tell you how
many times I've uncovered defects on the first jointed edge or face of
rough cut that led me to joint the opposite edge and/or face so that the
defect would be removed by the thickness planer or saw in final
dimensioning... I see it as a lack of reasonableness in their position
on things.

John


Then you would proceed with straightening the opposite edge as usual with
the TS, flipping the board, and cutting the board to width with the defect
on the waste side.
Same would apply to a face with a defect.

That depends on how uniform the board was to start with, and other
factors... It is not unusual for me to find that the rough cut board tapers
in thickness and/or width with the result being that much more wood is
removed from some areas than others during 4 squaring. Add in discoveries
about twist, cupping, checks, figure, grain direction changes, etc. and
changing the initial reference surfaces during preparation is not unusual at
all. Of course if grain and figure alignment and surface quality don't
matter for the intended use this doesn't matter much... just cram it through
like framing grade dimension lumber is prepared!

John

On 1/25/2012 10:48 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:


From Texas all of those NE accents sound the same.

Oh, that's only because we say "You guys..."


Which is a LOT different than "y'all" LOL

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 00:32:57 -0500, wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 20:50:17 -0500, wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 08:55:52 -0500,
wrote:

On 1/24/2012 7:00 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:32:57 -0500, wrote:
Can anyone recommend a suitable leather source/product for this purpose
(cows excluded)?

Tanned, 1" or wider is what I used. I think it was 10oz. 4-5mm or
3/16". http://tinyurl.com/7oabn8y I had bought scraps (5# for $5)
from a carriage, chest, and harnessmaker back on the East coast.
Glue the rough side down, smear some green on 'er, and hone away!
I think mine's about 1-1/2" wide by 15" long on a piece of baltic
birch plywood.


Larry, Thanks for the suggestion/link. The vegetable-tanned leather
doesn't sound like the right stuff,

Veg, brain, or chrome, it don't think it matters for a strop.
http://tinyurl.com/7t699yn


so I'm going try my old belt which
is a full 1/8" thick (too) and convenient. Hopefully, the embossing
won't be an issue. - W.W.

It will. I recommend against it, unless the back is smooth and can be
charged.

Ratts! I was afraid of that.



As always, thank you for your support!

That'll be $37.50. Got my account numbers?

I guess so, but I don't have $37.50 handy. ; )

I know. You have failed to pay any of the other tickies, either.
I'll add it to your bill, Bill.

Thanks Larry, You are very kind!

In case anyone else is interested in building his or her own strop, I
ordered an 8-9 oz (leather is not perfectly uniform thickness, hence the
range), 8/64"-9/64" thick, 1 1/2" wide, 50" long, "Tandy" brand,
vegetable-tanned strap, for about $17.50 including S&H. Product is
available in alot of widths and from Amazon and E-bay.

It is merely my guess and hope that this item will be suitable for a
strop. The basis for my guess is that unembossed belts are considered
usable, and this is a "belt-blank". It's a carvable one at that, so I
anticipate that it will have the suitable firmness/pliability.

Wikipedia has some useful information about leather. Cheers!

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 13:23:13 -0500, Bill wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 00:32:57 -0500, wrote:
As always, thank you for your support!

That'll be $37.50. Got my account numbers?

I guess so, but I don't have $37.50 handy. ; )

I know. You have failed to pay any of the other tickies, either.
I'll add it to your bill, Bill.

Thanks Larry, You are very kind!

In case anyone else is interested in building his or her own strop, I
ordered an 8-9 oz (leather is not perfectly uniform thickness, hence the
range), 8/64"-9/64" thick, 1 1/2" wide, 50" long, "Tandy" brand,
vegetable-tanned strap, for about $17.50 including S&H. Product is
available in alot of widths and from Amazon and E-bay.

That should work great. I zeenk you already bought zome of zee LVT
green compound, oui? Merveilleux!


It is merely my guess and hope that this item will be suitable for a
strop. The basis for my guess is that unembossed belts are considered
usable, and this is a "belt-blank". It's a carvable one at that, so I
anticipate that it will have the suitable firmness/pliability.

It will between the waxing gibbous and waning crescent phases of the
moon, but -only- if you hold your mouth right.


Wikipedia has some useful information about leather. Cheers!

It's a definite resource, isn't it?

--
The most powerful factors in the world are clear
ideas in the minds of energetic men of good will.
-- J. Arthur Thomson

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 08:57:04 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 1/24/2012 6:05 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:

If a TS is set up properly with a good blade it can produce a smoother
edge than the typical jointer.

If you go by the rules the jointer is used on only two surfaces, to
straighten the edge and flatten the face. The opposite edge is
straightened by thee TS. The opposite surface is flattened by a planer.

Thank you for the reminder: That makes perfect sense. It wasn't always
that way! ; )



I can't say. It was not always that way for me until I started buying
quality blades.

I recall in shop class in 1968 you would receive 3 licks if caught using
the jointer to surface more one edge and one side or to clean up a an
edge after going through the TS. ;~)

Maybe that was what those hand planes were for. ;~)

No, no, no. Use your Feztool Dremel-like companion tool.

--
The most powerful factors in the world are clear
ideas in the minds of energetic men of good will.
-- J. Arthur Thomson

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 13:23:13 -0500, wrote:

In case anyone else is interested in building his or her own strop, I
ordered an 8-9 oz (leather is not perfectly uniform thickness, hence the
range), 8/64"-9/64" thick, 1 1/2" wide, 50" long, "Tandy" brand,
vegetable-tanned strap, for about $17.50 including S&H. Product is
available in alot of widths and from Amazon and E-bay.

That should work great. I zeenk you already bought zome of zee LVT
green compound, oui? Merveilleux!


It is merely my guess and hope that this item will be suitable for a
strop. The basis for my guess is that unembossed belts are considered
usable, and this is a "belt-blank". It's a carvable one at that, so I
anticipate that it will have the suitable firmness/pliability.

It will between the waxing gibbous and waning crescent phases of the
moon, but -only- if you hold your mouth right.

Now I need to find a quarter-sawn piece of Maple from the tree whose
branches hung over the crossroads where Robert Johnson sold his soul to
the devil... Roadtrip!



Wikipedia has some useful information about leather. Cheers!

It's a definite resource, isn't it?

--
The most powerful factors in the world are clear
ideas in the minds of energetic men of good will.
-- J. Arthur Thomson

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 19:30:18 -0500, Bill wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 13:23:13 -0500, wrote:

In case anyone else is interested in building his or her own strop, I
ordered an 8-9 oz (leather is not perfectly uniform thickness, hence the
range), 8/64"-9/64" thick, 1 1/2" wide, 50" long, "Tandy" brand,
vegetable-tanned strap, for about $17.50 including S&H. Product is
available in alot of widths and from Amazon and E-bay.

That should work great. I zeenk you already bought zome of zee LVT
green compound, oui? Merveilleux!


It is merely my guess and hope that this item will be suitable for a
strop. The basis for my guess is that unembossed belts are considered
usable, and this is a "belt-blank". It's a carvable one at that, so I
anticipate that it will have the suitable firmness/pliability.

It will between the waxing gibbous and waning crescent phases of the
moon, but -only- if you hold your mouth right.

Now I need to find a quarter-sawn piece of Maple from the tree whose
branches hung over the crossroads where Robert Johnson sold his soul to
the devil... Roadtrip!

I finally broke down and bought a copy of that movie (and the movie of
the same name starring a young Britney.) The former I bought primarily
for the soundtrack, the latter for the jailbait almost T&A. But
seriously, she has one nice pai^H^H^Hvoice, doesn't she?

But forget about that wood. Mr. Legba, he doan like no woodchoppahs
roun' his trees, y'heah?


Wikipedia has some useful information about leather. Cheers!

It's a definite resource, isn't it?

Speaking of resources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papa_Legba,
complete with my reference.

--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 19:30:18 -0500, wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 13:23:13 -0500, wrote:

In case anyone else is interested in building his or her own strop, I
ordered an 8-9 oz (leather is not perfectly uniform thickness, hence the
range), 8/64"-9/64" thick, 1 1/2" wide, 50" long, "Tandy" brand,
vegetable-tanned strap, for about $17.50 including S&H. Product is
available in alot of widths and from Amazon and E-bay.

That should work great. I zeenk you already bought zome of zee LVT
green compound, oui? Merveilleux!


It is merely my guess and hope that this item will be suitable for a
strop. The basis for my guess is that unembossed belts are considered
usable, and this is a "belt-blank". It's a carvable one at that, so I
anticipate that it will have the suitable firmness/pliability.

It will between the waxing gibbous and waning crescent phases of the
moon, but -only- if you hold your mouth right.

Now I need to find a quarter-sawn piece of Maple from the tree whose
branches hung over the crossroads where Robert Johnson sold his soul to
the devil... Roadtrip!

I finally broke down and bought a copy of that movie (and the movie of
the same name starring a young Britney.)

I've got a RJ CD. Haven't seen the movie (didn't know there was one).
I have a book of RJ tab too...but I never got very far with it. I'll
lend it to you after you've got MJH straight.

I got to keep movin',
I've got to keep movin'
Blues fallin' down like hail, blues fallin' down like hail
Umm-mm-mm-mm, blues fallin' down like hail, blues fallin' down like hail

And the day keeps on worrin' me, there's a hellhound on my trail
Hellhound on my trail, hellhound on my trail...

I got to keep movin'
got to keep on movin'
Blues fallin' down like hail, blues fallin' down like hail
Cause I gotta find, three times 12.50, to get his dogs outta jail,
Um-Umm-mm-mm get his dogs outta jail, get his dogs outta jail....

And my leather's wearin' thin, while I go to, pay The Man his bail,
pay The Man his bail, pay The Man his bail...


The former I bought primarily
for the soundtrack, the latter for the jailbait almost T&A. But
seriously, she has one nice pai^H^H^Hvoice, doesn't she?

But forget about that wood. Mr. Legba, he doan like no woodchoppahs
roun' his trees, y'heah?


Wikipedia has some useful information about leather. Cheers!

It's a definite resource, isn't it?

Speaking of resources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papa_Legba,
complete with my reference.

--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 21:29:44 -0500, Bill wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 19:30:18 -0500, wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
I finally broke down and bought a copy of that movie (and the movie of
the same name starring a young Britney.)

I've got a RJ CD. Haven't seen the movie (didn't know there was one).



I have a book of RJ tab too...but I never got very far with it. I'll
lend it to you after you've got MJH straight.

That may be awhile. I haven't picked it up for almost a year now...


I got to keep movin',
I've got to keep movin'
Blues fallin' down like hail, blues fallin' down like hail
Umm-mm-mm-mm, blues fallin' down like hail, blues fallin' down like hail

And the day keeps on worrin' me, there's a hellhound on my trail
Hellhound on my trail, hellhound on my trail...

I got to keep movin'
got to keep on movin'
Blues fallin' down like hail, blues fallin' down like hail
Cause I gotta find, three times 12.50, to get his dogs outta jail,
Um-Umm-mm-mm get his dogs outta jail, get his dogs outta jail....

And my leather's wearin' thin, while I go to, pay The Man his bail,
pay The Man his bail, pay The Man his bail...

What song is that? Here's RJ on Crossroad:
http://tinyurl.com/86nvkl7 Interesting video bg. Love the man.

Play the Clapton version of Crossroads:
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/e/eric+cl..._20051297.html
Happenin', mon, though I prefer the Cream version from way back.

--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois

On 1/26/2012 1:54 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 21:29:44 -0500, wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 19:30:18 -0500, wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
I finally broke down and bought a copy of that movie (and the movie of
the same name starring a young Britney.)

I've got a RJ CD. Haven't seen the movie (didn't know there was one).



I have a book of RJ tab too...but I never got very far with it. I'll
lend it to you after you've got MJH straight.

That may be awhile. I haven't picked it up for almost a year now...


I got to keep movin',
I've got to keep movin'
Blues fallin' down like hail, blues fallin' down like hail
Umm-mm-mm-mm, blues fallin' down like hail, blues fallin' down like hail

And the day keeps on worrin' me, there's a hellhound on my trail
Hellhound on my trail, hellhound on my trail...

I got to keep movin'
got to keep on movin'
Blues fallin' down like hail, blues fallin' down like hail
Cause I gotta find, three times 12.50, to get his dogs outta jail,
Um-Umm-mm-mm get his dogs outta jail, get his dogs outta jail....

And my leather's wearin' thin, while I go to, pay The Man his bail,
pay The Man his bail, pay The Man his bail...

What song is that?

Well, the original is here (you have to put on your "78 record ears"):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UVgH9JqSnQ


Here's RJ on Crossroad:
http://tinyurl.com/86nvkl7 Interesting video bg. Love the man.

Play the Clapton version of Crossroads:
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/e/eric+cl..._20051297.html
Happenin', mon, though I prefer the Cream version from way back.

--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois

On Jan 23, 7:08*pm, Bill wrote:

I think I had some misconceptions about what a TS could do. *I think I
was expecting it could produce a decent edge for gluing. And I guess it
can, but a jointer is evidently (much) better. * Either I get a jointer
or I learn to sharpen and use my Stanley planes (I've collected
#4-5-6-7-8 and some 5 1/4's, and some for parts...lol). *Anyone out
there making furniture with no power jointer?

Systimatic ATBR 50 tooth blade does fine. For more critical
luthiery work, I'll touch up the joints with a #5 or an LN block.
Haven't seen a jointer yet that can produce as smooth or
as flat a surface.

Father Haskell wrote:
On Jan 23, 7:08 pm, wrote:

I think I had some misconceptions about what a TS could do. I think I
was expecting it could produce a decent edge for gluing. And I guess it
can, but a jointer is evidently (much) better. Either I get a jointer
or I learn to sharpen and use my Stanley planes (I've collected
#4-5-6-7-8 and some 5 1/4's, and some for parts...lol). Anyone out
there making furniture with no power jointer?

Systimatic ATBR 50 tooth blade does fine. For more critical
luthiery work, I'll touch up the joints with a #5 or an LN block.
Haven't seen a jointer yet that can produce as smooth or
as flat a surface.



Thanks for starting me on a saw blade/tooth lesson. I never did figure
out what ATBR stands for, for I learned it should produce good on
crosscut-miter cuts. Does this apply to ripping too? I know ripping and
crosscut saws are completely different.

Bill wrote:
Father Haskell wrote:
On Jan 23, 7:08 pm, wrote:

I think I had some misconceptions about what a TS could do. I think I
was expecting it could produce a decent edge for gluing. And I guess it
can, but a jointer is evidently (much) better. Either I get a jointer
or I learn to sharpen and use my Stanley planes (I've collected
#4-5-6-7-8 and some 5 1/4's, and some for parts...lol). Anyone out
there making furniture with no power jointer?

Systimatic ATBR 50 tooth blade does fine. For more critical
luthiery work, I'll touch up the joints with a #5 or an LN block.
Haven't seen a jointer yet that can produce as smooth or
as flat a surface.



Thanks for starting me on a saw blade/tooth lesson. I never did figure
out what ATBR stands for, but I learned it should produce good on
crosscut-miter cuts. Does this apply to ripping too? I know ripping and
crosscut saws are completely different.

I should have wrote I know ripping and crosscut *blades* are different.
And I know they have combination blades. Roland Johnson of FWW said, at
the WoodworkingShows, that one should never use those. : )
My concern is academic, since I'm going to get my planes in shape, but
I'm still interested in learning what I can about blades.

On 1/26/2012 5:31 PM, Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:
Father Haskell wrote:
On Jan 23, 7:08 pm, wrote:

I think I had some misconceptions about what a TS could do. I think I
was expecting it could produce a decent edge for gluing. And I guess it
can, but a jointer is evidently (much) better. Either I get a jointer
or I learn to sharpen and use my Stanley planes (I've collected
#4-5-6-7-8 and some 5 1/4's, and some for parts...lol). Anyone out
there making furniture with no power jointer?

Systimatic ATBR 50 tooth blade does fine. For more critical
luthiery work, I'll touch up the joints with a #5 or an LN block.
Haven't seen a jointer yet that can produce as smooth or
as flat a surface.



Thanks for starting me on a saw blade/tooth lesson. I never did figure
out what ATBR stands for, but I learned it should produce good on
crosscut-miter cuts. Does this apply to ripping too? I know ripping and
crosscut saws are completely different.

I should have wrote I know ripping and crosscut *blades* are different.
And I know they have combination blades. Roland Johnson of FWW said, at
the WoodworkingShows, that one should never use those. : )

If that is what Roland Johnson said he is ignorant.

I used S0 tooth Systematic ATBR Combination blade for years with good
results. I have been using a general purpose 40 tooth Forrest WWII for
12 years with GREAT results. Both blades for Both ripping, cross
cutting, and compound miters.





My concern is academic, since I'm going to get my planes in shape, but
I'm still interested in learning what I can about blades.

You will not be disappointed in a General purpose Forrest WWII 40 tooth
blade.

On 1/26/2012 5:31 PM, Bill wrote:
....

I should have wrote [sic] (written) I know ripping and crosscut
*blades* are different.
And I know they have combination blades. Roland Johnson of FWW said, at
the WoodworkingShows, that one should never use those. : )
....

Well, what was he hawking then?

http://www.finewoodworking.com/ToolGuide/ToolGuideProduct.aspx?id=33825

Or, more likely and to give the benefit of doubt, what _specifically_
was he speaking of in context of that "never"?

--

On 1/27/2012 10:34 AM, Leon wrote:
On 1/26/2012 5:31 PM, Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:

I should have wrote I know ripping and crosscut *blades* are different.
And I know they have combination blades. Roland Johnson of FWW said, at
the WoodworkingShows, that one should never use those. : )

If that is what Roland Johnson said he is ignorant.

To be fair, what he said is that "one should only rip with ripping
blades, only crosscut with cross-cutting blades, and *avoid* the
combination blades--it doesn't take that long to change blades."

I did order the dial indicator magnetic base system for setup and
testing, like he recommended. Grizzly got the sale.



I used S0 tooth Systematic ATBR Combination blade for years with good
results. I have been using a general purpose 40 tooth Forrest WWII for
12 years with GREAT results. Both blades for Both ripping, cross
cutting, and compound miters.





My concern is academic, since I'm going to get my planes in shape, but
I'm still interested in learning what I can about blades.

You will not be disappointed in a General purpose Forrest WWII 40 tooth
blade.

Thank you, that is my impression from what I've read around here, by you
and others, and I'm sure I'll get one.

I'm looking forward to rasping out a strop this weekend. I looked at a
table that indicated Maple wasn't as much harder than White Oak or Red
Oak as I thought it was, so I'll pick up a 1by2 of oak tonight. I'm
embracing the challenge of try to rasp out one that shows craftsmanship.
It should be good practice. Fortunately, the 1x2 is sold in a 6'
length--so I can make several, if necessary, to achieve this! ; )

On 1/27/2012 10:34 AM, Bill wrote:
On 1/27/2012 10:34 AM, Leon wrote:
On 1/26/2012 5:31 PM, Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:

I should have wrote I know ripping and crosscut *blades* are different.
And I know they have combination blades. Roland Johnson of FWW said, at
the WoodworkingShows, that one should never use those. : )

If that is what Roland Johnson said he is ignorant.

To be fair, what he said is that "one should only rip with ripping
blades, only crosscut with cross-cutting blades, and *avoid* the
combination blades--it doesn't take that long to change blades."

Yeah if you are relatively inexpensive blades and yo have time to kill
changing blades. I would have to change blades 8~10 time daily. THAT
is why I switched to a top quality combo/general purpose blade. It is
highly unlike you would notice an appreciable difference.



I did order the dial indicator magnetic base system for setup and
testing, like he recommended. Grizzly got the sale.

That's good, helps to rule out possible problems and set thing up.



I used S0 tooth Systematic ATBR Combination blade for years with good
results. I have been using a general purpose 40 tooth Forrest WWII for
12 years with GREAT results. Both blades for Both ripping, cross
cutting, and compound miters.





My concern is academic, since I'm going to get my planes in shape, but
I'm still interested in learning what I can about blades.

You will not be disappointed in a General purpose Forrest WWII 40 tooth
blade.

Thank you, that is my impression from what I've read around here, by you
and others, and I'm sure I'll get one.

I'm looking forward to rasping out a strop this weekend. I looked at a
table that indicated Maple wasn't as much harder than White Oak or Red
Oak as I thought it was, so I'll pick up a 1by2 of oak tonight. I'm
embracing the challenge of try to rasp out one that shows craftsmanship.
It should be good practice. Fortunately, the 1x2 is sold in a 6'
length--so I can make several, if necessary, to achieve this! ; )

Enjoy!

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 1/27/2012 10:34 AM, Bill wrote:
On 1/27/2012 10:34 AM, Leon wrote:
On 1/26/2012 5:31 PM, Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:

I should have wrote I know ripping and crosscut *blades* are different.
And I know they have combination blades. Roland Johnson of FWW said, at
the WoodworkingShows, that one should never use those. : )

If that is what Roland Johnson said he is ignorant.

To be fair, what he said is that "one should only rip with ripping
blades, only crosscut with cross-cutting blades, and *avoid* the
combination blades--it doesn't take that long to change blades."

Yeah if you are relatively inexpensive blades and yo have time to kill
changing blades. I would have to change blades 8~10 time daily. THAT is
why I switched to a top quality combo/general purpose blade. It is highly
unlike you would notice an appreciable difference.


I use the Forrest WWII the vast majority of the time for just that reason...
However, when I've got a lot of ripping of solid 6/4-12/4 planed wood to do
I swap over to a Freud, coated, rip blade. It makes for much faster and
easier cuts on long rips. This as the tooth shape and large gullet size
allow it to take big bites and carry the dust away. I think the latter
makes the most difference as even with my 3 HP saw the WWII requires a
slower feed than the rip blade as it cannot handle the waste of thick stock.

I've noticed in more recent times that I find myself cutting things like 8/4
maple or cherry on the 18" bandsaw whether it's planed or rough cut. Rough
cut 4/4 or 5/4 is always ripped, and cross-cut if possible, on the bandsaw
when rough sizing boards.

I realize that not everyone has all these options though... I never ran out
of reasons for another tool purchase. ;~)

John

dpb wrote:
On 1/26/2012 5:31 PM, Bill wrote:
...

I should have wrote [sic] (written) I know ripping and crosscut
*blades* are different.
And I know they have combination blades. Roland Johnson of FWW said, at
the WoodworkingShows, that one should never use those. : )
...

Well, what was he hawking then?

He said, everyone with a TS needed a magnetic base dial
indicator--so i ordered one with hope of getting a TS soon. : )
I ordered the base recommended here with the flexible "neck" (G9625)
from Grizzly. Looking forward to use it to measure runout on my DP, and
I'll be ready if a new TS should appear this year.



http://www.finewoodworking.com/ToolGuide/ToolGuideProduct.aspx?id=33825

Or, more likely and to give the benefit of doubt, what _specifically_
was he speaking of in context of that "never"?

--

"Bill" wrote in message ...

Anyone out
there making furniture with no power jointer?
==============================================

Yep.

"Bill" wrote in message ...


My original plan was to put the boards through my planer. But I
understand now why that might not be "good enough". But I suspect it is
if I'm willing to do diligently surface the "top".
================================================== =============
Run them threw the planer. Spread glue and clamp the **** out of it. I'm not
kidding here. Titebond recommends 125 to 250 psi clamping pressure. The
alternative is to hang around in here and let everybody convince you That
you must do your glue up at the right time of the solar cycle, right part of
the lunar cycle, stand in the middle of a regulation pentagram and do the
correct chant to get a good glue up.

On 1/23/2012 6:08 PM, Bill wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:
Anyone out there making
furniture with no power jointer?

Yes, I had a jointer for years. I actually used it to take up space and
collect dust. I got rid of it a few years ago and have not missed it at
all.

Now if I were buying a lot of rough cut lumber I would want it back but
S2S lumber for me is just not expensive enough for me to want to go back
to using a jointer and buying rough cut. I do however straighten S2S
lumber with my track saw.

Leon wrote:
On 1/23/2012 6:08 PM, Bill wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:
Anyone out there making
furniture with no power jointer?

Yes, I had a jointer for years. I actually used it to take up space and
collect dust. I got rid of it a few years ago and have not missed it at
all.

Now if I were buying a lot of rough cut lumber I would want it back but
S2S lumber for me is just not expensive enough for me to want to go back
to using a jointer and buying rough cut. I do however straighten S2S
lumber with my track saw.

I like your technique of "jointing" the edges with a track or table saw.

But if you were to set a couple of your new S2S boards side-by-side, it
would not make for a flat surface, would it (just asking)?

On 1/29/2012 3:20 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 1/23/2012 6:08 PM, Bill wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:
Anyone out there making
furniture with no power jointer?

Yes, I had a jointer for years. I actually used it to take up space and
collect dust. I got rid of it a few years ago and have not missed it at
all.

Now if I were buying a lot of rough cut lumber I would want it back but
S2S lumber for me is just not expensive enough for me to want to go back
to using a jointer and buying rough cut. I do however straighten S2S
lumber with my track saw.

I like your technique of "jointing" the edges with a track or table saw.

But if you were to set a couple of your new S2S boards side-by-side, it
would not make for a flat surface, would it (just asking)?


Yes they would. S2S boards have the top and bottom surfaces planed
flat. There will be exceptions just like with some S4S which may no
longer be flat or straight. For the most part S2S will be consistent
thickness but will be thinker that the size that it is sold as. Most
often 4/4 S2S is 13/16" thick at my supplier so I plane it to the
desired thickness, usually 3/4".

Keep in mind it is more difficult to straighten an edge on a TS unless
you use a sled, which I used to do. The rip fence is not long enough to
address keeping the stock going in a straight line for longer boards.
The track saw works much better in this case.

Leon, I stopped using surfaced wood as it was never flat, always
twisted. Where do you find this wonderful flat 2s wood?

I joint because it's a lot easier to have squared up wood from my
process, than picking through tons of lumber. I rarely see straight wood.
So when I get rough cut wood I just expect to true it up. I find
building with that wood easier. I don't have to deal with twists, which
for already surfaced wood means I need to knock it down in thickness, or
rip it and fix smaller strips and then glue them back.

Same amount of work and time? No. truer, and faster.



On 1/29/2012 6:35 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/29/2012 3:20 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 1/23/2012 6:08 PM, Bill wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:
Anyone out there making
furniture with no power jointer?

Yes, I had a jointer for years. I actually used it to take up space and
collect dust. I got rid of it a few years ago and have not missed it at
all.

Now if I were buying a lot of rough cut lumber I would want it back but
S2S lumber for me is just not expensive enough for me to want to go back
to using a jointer and buying rough cut. I do however straighten S2S
lumber with my track saw.

I like your technique of "jointing" the edges with a track or table saw.

But if you were to set a couple of your new S2S boards side-by-side, it
would not make for a flat surface, would it (just asking)?


Yes they would. S2S boards have the top and bottom surfaces planed flat.
There will be exceptions just like with some S4S which may no longer be
flat or straight. For the most part S2S will be consistent thickness but
will be thinker that the size that it is sold as. Most often 4/4 S2S is
13/16" thick at my supplier so I plane it to the desired thickness,
usually 3/4".

Keep in mind it is more difficult to straighten an edge on a TS unless
you use a sled, which I used to do. The rip fence is not long enough to
address keeping the stock going in a straight line for longer boards.
The track saw works much better in this case.

On 1/29/2012 6:40 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
Leon, I stopped using surfaced wood as it was never flat, always
twisted. Where do you find this wonderful flat 2s wood?

We have at least four good hardwood places that let you pick and chose
here in Houston, so, if you can read a board, you can reasonably come
home with what you pay for.

The problem I find is when I phone order so many board/linear feet for
pick up, from the same places ... then I damn well better factor at
least 20% for waste.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

Leon wrote:
On 1/29/2012 3:20 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 1/23/2012 6:08 PM, Bill wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:
Anyone out there making
furniture with no power jointer?

Yes, I had a jointer for years. I actually used it to take up space and
collect dust. I got rid of it a few years ago and have not missed it at
all.

Now if I were buying a lot of rough cut lumber I would want it back but
S2S lumber for me is just not expensive enough for me to want to go back
to using a jointer and buying rough cut. I do however straighten S2S
lumber with my track saw.

I like your technique of "jointing" the edges with a track or table saw.

But if you were to set a couple of your new S2S boards side-by-side, it
would not make for a flat surface, would it (just asking)?


Yes they would. S2S boards have the top and bottom surfaces planed flat.
There will be exceptions just like with some S4S which may no longer be
flat or straight.

I think I brought home a 9' exception the other day. It looked pretty
good laying on its face in the store. But resting on an edge both ends
curve up. I'm going to cut it up anyway, so it will do fine. It was
nice to see these hardwoods at Menards though--Lowes only had Red Oak.
I'm sure when I pursue a furniture project, that I'll seek out a
lumberyard. I need to keep learning before I go so that I don't look
like a greenhorn! I had the whole lumber department to myself at
Menards. No SS's to keep a 12 foot beam of maple falling on me either!
; )


For the most part S2S will be consistent thickness but
will be thinker that the size that it is sold as. Most often 4/4 S2S is
13/16" thick at my supplier so I plane it to the desired thickness,
usually 3/4".

Keep in mind it is more difficult to straighten an edge on a TS unless
you use a sled, which I used to do. The rip fence is not long enough to
address keeping the stock going in a straight line for longer boards.
The track saw works much better in this case.

Good point. I didn't think of that. Thanks for the lesson!
If there's a theme here, it seems to be "be concerned about everything
that can go wrong".

On 1/29/2012 6:40 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
Leon, I stopped using surfaced wood as it was never flat, always
twisted. Where do you find this wonderful flat 2s wood?

Hardwood Products, Clarks Lumber AKA Hardwood Lumber to name the 2 that
I use the most. Both in Houston. IIRC both suppliers mill their own
S2S and S4S lumber.



I joint because it's a lot easier to have squared up wood from my
process, than picking through tons of lumber. I rarely see straight wood.
So when I get rough cut wood I just expect to true it up. I find
building with that wood easier. I don't have to deal with twists, which
for already surfaced wood means I need to knock it down in thickness, or
rip it and fix smaller strips and then glue them back.

Same amount of work and time? No. truer, and faster.

And oddly we/I have to look to find rough cut lumber of any quantity, I
do have a source some 80 miles away however that absolutely wipes out
any savings.






On 1/29/2012 6:35 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/29/2012 3:20 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 1/23/2012 6:08 PM, Bill wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:
Anyone out there making
furniture with no power jointer?

Yes, I had a jointer for years. I actually used it to take up space and
collect dust. I got rid of it a few years ago and have not missed it at
all.

Now if I were buying a lot of rough cut lumber I would want it back but
S2S lumber for me is just not expensive enough for me to want to go
back
to using a jointer and buying rough cut. I do however straighten S2S
lumber with my track saw.

I like your technique of "jointing" the edges with a track or table saw.

But if you were to set a couple of your new S2S boards side-by-side, it
would not make for a flat surface, would it (just asking)?


Yes they would. S2S boards have the top and bottom surfaces planed flat.
There will be exceptions just like with some S4S which may no longer be
flat or straight. For the most part S2S will be consistent thickness but
will be thinker that the size that it is sold as. Most often 4/4 S2S is
13/16" thick at my supplier so I plane it to the desired thickness,
usually 3/4".

Keep in mind it is more difficult to straighten an edge on a TS unless
you use a sled, which I used to do. The rip fence is not long enough to
address keeping the stock going in a straight line for longer boards.
The track saw works much better in this case.

On 1/29/2012 8:39 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 1/29/2012 3:20 PM, Bill wrote:

Keep in mind it is more difficult to straighten an edge on a TS unless
you use a sled, which I used to do. The rip fence is not long enough to
address keeping the stock going in a straight line for longer boards.
The track saw works much better in this case.

Good point. I didn't think of that. Thanks for the lesson!
If there's a theme here, it seems to be "be concerned about everything
that can go wrong".




Good catch there, the better your stock is to begin with the fewer the
little inconsistencies show up later to a greater magnitude.

Keep in mind that hardwoods that are sold at the big box stores tend to
be 2 to 3 tomes more expensive than a hardwood lumber yard that has a
much larger volume of hardwood sales. Smaller hardwood "boutiques" tend
to be pretty pricey also.

On 1/29/2012 8:07 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 1/29/2012 6:40 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
Leon, I stopped using surfaced wood as it was never flat, always
twisted. Where do you find this wonderful flat 2s wood?

We have at least four good hardwood places that let you pick and chose
here in Houston, so, if you can read a board, you can reasonably come
home with what you pay for.

The problem I find is when I phone order so many board/linear feet for
pick up, from the same places ... then I damn well better factor at
least 20% for waste.


I can assure you that if you call in an order to be pulled at Hardwood
Products it will be pulled as it comes off the stack. I imagine that is
how they get rid of the questionable stuff with knots and tapered ends.
As you pointed out you do need to pick your own stick to get exactly
what you want.

More and more for paying jobs I am turning to S4S. I am more
consistantly not have to over buy as I know going in exactly how much I
need to buy. Dealing with S2S you never know how much taper the boards
will have and there tends to be quite a bit of waste when you remove the
taper.

On 1/29/2012 9:39 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:

Yes they would. S2S boards have the top and bottom surfaces planed flat.
There will be exceptions just like with some S4S which may no longer be
flat or straight.

I think I brought home a 9' exception the other day. It looked pretty
good laying on its face in the store. But resting on an edge both ends
*curve up*. I'm going to cut it up anyway, so it will do fine.

I glanced down at my new Maple board this morning, which has taken
temporary residence in the family room, and it has gone straight. To my
surprise, it looks perfect now. Surely, it's either my clean living or
the humidifier in the next room! ; )

I know what they say about letting wood adjust to it's new surroundings.
Well, there ya go! : )

Bill