"J T" wrote in message
...
Sat, Oct 25, 2008, 8:57am (EDT-3)
(Too_Many_Tools) did queryeth thusly:
In tough times consumers tend to cut back...so where are you cutting
back, reprioritizing resources, whatever to make that dollar go farther?
I am also posting this in the metal and wood working groups to hear how
those who pursue the hobby are allotting their resources.

I am doing my part by not answering questions like this, from
people who ask them, then don't say what they're doing.


Had a national phone survey call on the elections the other day that was
kind of intriguing so I stayed with it... By the time it was over, via the
questions asked, I figured out it was sponsored by Diageo
http://www.diageo.com/en-row/homepage.htm

It was pretty clear there are concerned about an increase in the sin tax
that applies to their products. The response categories made me think they
were polling using a list purchased from the WSJ... could be wrong about
that but it sure seemed that way. ;~)

A bit of sage craft in politics... nothing new there!

Sac Dave wrote:
"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
In tough times consumers tend to cut back...so where are you cutting
back, reprioritizing resources, whatever to make that dollar go
farther?
I'm not cutting back. Instead I'm working to help people cut forward.

It /does/ take a bit of thinking about...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

If you are into solar What should a 5.96 KW AC system cost . 30 panels (
sunpower SPR-225-BLK-U) one inverter ( sunpower SPR-7000m) We just
started looking into Solar because of high electric cost in our area (
Pacific Gas & Electric) Just curious if you would have any Idea.

Wait a bit. You can do solar AC without ever generating electricity.
PV is expensive. You can ask in alt.solar.pv for Photovoltaic questions.
There's some technology (printed PV) there also that may hit the market
some day at 1$/watt.

Jeff

I've been cutting back for 7 years (I look ahead).

Basically I have done everything I can to reduce fixed monthly expenses. If
these expenses are reduced, then I have more discretionary money each month.

I have free-to-air mpeg satellite (no monthly charge) and have no paid TV. I
also have zillions of VCR tapes. Nobody wants them anymore, I recently
purchased 100 VCR tapes for $10 the last day/hour of an estate sale. (They
sat there for 3 days.)
Free-to-air satellite: http://www.sadoun.com/Satellite-Products.htm

I have all electronic devices on power strips and turn off power when not in
use.

Have super-insulated my house and installed Energy Star windows.

I have new Energy Star appliances which use much less energy.

Energy Star....
http://www.energystar.gov

My car, which I purchased 4 years ago for $300 plus 1k in repairs, gets 38
MPG. (This was when no one wanted small cars.)

I don't take a shower unless it is needed. I can skip a couple of days in
the winter, summer sometimes 2 times a day - but as needed.

Food - I shop in a grocery store with price per ounce on the shelf label. I
buy the lowest cost per ounce foods. Sometimes I pay $20 for something
instead of $4, but the price per ounce is lower and I am getting more food
for what I spend.

On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 23:01:38 -0400, "Lee Michaels"
wrote:


"J. Clarke" wrote

My machine is about 5 years old and it runs Vista just fine. And it
wasn't cutting edge when it was new. It did get a new video board
about a year ago, but that was because the old one died--it was
running Vista fine to the end.


So vista killed off your old graphics card, eh?

Reminds me of an old, reliable HP II printer I had. I got a postscript
cartridge for it and cranked out huge amount of work from this machine.

Then I got windows. It did not take long. Windows killed that old, reliable
machine. It just couldn't keep up.

The HP III that I got free about 4 years ago (freecycle.org) developed
a smear issue when printing anything other than text. Not a toner
cartridge problem and I'm not currently able to do the disassembly to
repair it (recovering rom back surgery is only slightly faster than a
glacier melting).

Having found a Brother 2040 for my wife at end of year close-out
pricing last year, I considered the 2070N (same printer with network
capability) as a replacement for the III but found it discontinued.
There was a good deal on Ebay (do your homework - you can see prices
of previous sales), so that's what I'm now using. These little
printers weigh less than 15 lb and use less than half the power of the
II/III series (something like 500 watts max).

I still have a couple of the HP 500/520 series inkjet printers - these
were the ones that had a 3 year warranty (even the refurb units).
Although big, slow, and noisy by curent standards, they still work OK
for draft printing. Ink is cheap, as there were millions of these
sold and there are still new and refilled cartridges available.


Technology marches on, leaving a trail of old, toxic electonic waste. I am
now reviewing software based on their ability to run duo core versus quad
core. One application, I may just change some software over that is not as
versatile as what I am running now. But one application cries out for the
extra speed and processing power. The present setup is freezing and slowing
down.

Some software doesn't understand multi-core processors (the software
that came with my weather station) but the affinity utility can force
a program to use just one core.


And if I go and change it over, a major hassle, what will the situation be
like in another year or two?

grumble, grumble



I got 6 years out of the previous laptop; this dual-core one is from
the Dell Small Business line and came with XP installed and Vista
Business in the box. Since the next version of Windows (currently
identified as Windows 7) will probably be out in early 2009, Vista may
never get installed.

"Terry Coombs" wrote \

Vista is indeed "Windows for Idiots" ...

More likely in this day and age: "Windows that Idiots Can't Run" ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

In article ,
Lee Michaels wrote:
[ ... ]
Technology marches on, leaving a trail of old, toxic electonic waste. I am
now reviewing software based on their ability to run duo core versus quad
core. One application, I may just change some software over that is not as
versatile as what I am running now. But one application cries out for the
extra speed and processing power. The present setup is freezing and slowing
down.

This is usually a symptom of memory problems, most often not enough of it.
Put in 4GB if your system will take it (only 64-bit versions of Windows
can address more than that; the 32-bit versions can only use 3.5GB). Use
the same brand and type modules; they will play well together better than
mixing brands or speeds.

Another poster mentioned using ECC memory; that will also improve stability,
but it adds to cost. It's usually found in servers rather than PCs, so
expect to spend $300+ for a motherboard, for example.

I've been building systems at work recently with dual quad-core Intel Xeon
CPUs, SuperMicro X7DAL motherboards, 12GB of memory, and GeForce 8800GT
video cards, dual booting between Windows XP and RedHat Linux. Also built
some similar ones with 2GB and no fancy video in 1U rack cases (one of
them at 100% CPU puts out less heat than a dual 3.2GHz Xeon while doing
4x the work) for computation servers running Fedora 7. The users like
them quite a bit, and I haven't heard of any stability issues.

And if I go and change it over, a major hassle, what will the situation be
like in another year or two?

No telling, but Intel is about to bring out a six-core chip with an eight-
core in the works, which are supposed to be socket-compatable with the
quad-cores...

It's impossible to keep up. Just buy a system to do the job you need to
do at the moment, and don't worry about the future.


Gary

--
Gary Heston http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

Why is it that these days, the words "What idiot" are so frequently
followed by the words "at Microsoft"?

On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:57:15 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
wrote:

In tough times consumers tend to cut back...so where are you cutting
back, reprioritizing resources, whatever to make that dollar go
farther?

I am also posting this in the metal and wood working groups to hear
how those who pursue the hobby are allotting their resources.

Thanks

TMT

Retired, "tough times" haven't affected my pensions nor, so far, the
income from my securities. Market value of my holdings has decreased
but I've lost no money unless I sell them which I have no intention of
doing. In fact, I'm buying more while the price is low.

In general, I've decided not to participate in the tough times nor in
the media induced panic. Ever noticed that the prophesies of the doom
and gloom pundits are self-fulfilling.

People, the "stock market" is NOT the economy regardless of what the
nightly news-readers say. Too many people use Wall Street like your
friendly neighborhood casino. When you do, expect to lose.

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

Swingman wrote:
"Terry Coombs" wrote \

Vista is indeed "Windows for Idiots" ...

More likely in this day and age: "Windows that Idiots Can't Run" ...

Dude , you do some seriously nice woodwork ! I'm a cabinetmaker by trade ,
but production work doesn't allow such niceties as fingerjointed corners ...
BTW , you mis-spelled "ruin" . Vista throws up so many flags , the average
sheeple won't dare change much for fear of crashing the system .
--
Snag
'90 Ultra "Strider"
'39 WLDD "Popcycle"
Buncha cars and a truck

Lee Michaels wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote
My machine is about 5 years old and it runs Vista just fine. And it
wasn't cutting edge when it was new. It did get a new video board
about a year ago, but that was because the old one died--it was
running Vista fine to the end.


So vista killed off your old graphics card, eh?

Reminds me of an old, reliable HP II printer I had. I got a postscript
cartridge for it and cranked out huge amount of work from this machine.

Then I got windows. It did not take long. Windows killed that old, reliable
machine. It just couldn't keep up.

Technology marches on, leaving a trail of old, toxic electonic waste. I am
now reviewing software based on their ability to run duo core versus quad
core. One application, I may just change some software over that is not as
versatile as what I am running now. But one application cries out for the
extra speed and processing power. The present setup is freezing and slowing
down.

And if I go and change it over, a major hassle, what will the situation be
like in another year or two?

grumble, grumble



You can use the following to check the memory in your PC:

http://www.memtest.org/

"Terry Coombs" wrote in message
.. .
Swingman wrote:
"Terry Coombs" wrote \

Vista is indeed "Windows for Idiots" ...

More likely in this day and age: "Windows that Idiots Can't Run" ...

Dude , you do some seriously nice woodwork ! I'm a cabinetmaker by trade
, but production work doesn't allow such niceties as fingerjointed corners
...

"Fingerjointed" corner? ... where?

BTW , you mis-spelled "ruin" . Vista throws up so many flags , the
average sheeple won't dare change much for fear of crashing the system .

Pretty well proves the point that "average sheeple" aren't smart enough to
run it, eh?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:57:15 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
wrote:

In tough times consumers tend to cut back...so where are you cutting
back, reprioritizing resources, whatever to make that dollar go
farther?

I am also posting this in the metal and wood working groups to hear
how those who pursue the hobby are allotting their resources.

Thanks

TMT

Mostly Gas.. Even though we're still paying only about $250 USD for a gallon of
unleaded, it still is high, compared to about $1.55 a year ago..
Almost everyone that I talk to here are cutting down on their trips and visits
to the States, because of the fuel prices..

Somewhat related, since I order most of my tools and supplies on the web, I look
for free shipping offers, as the price of fuel has made shipping very
expensive..

I'm lucky enough to be in sort of a good position..
My income is actually going up faster than prices are rising..
Who woulda thunk it, retiring to Mexico?

I'm trying to spend as much as I can locally, and telling folks how well the
economy will be doing soon...
Not true? Well, as we used to say in the real estate business, "perception
becomes reality, if enough people share the perception"...


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

In article
,
Too_Many_Tools wrote:

In tough times consumers tend to cut back...so where are you cutting
back, reprioritizing resources, whatever to make that dollar go
farther?

I am also posting this in the metal and wood working groups to hear
how those who pursue the hobby are allotting their resources.

Thanks

TMT

It is at times like these that a lot of good toys are going cheap. Stuff
like motor bikes, power boats, even cottages up north are showing more
ForSale signs. (A lot of Michiganians are no longer willing to spend the
money on fuel to get there.)

True conservative money managers, are now in a position to snatch away
all those toys from those spend-crazy libtards at bargain basement
prices. Fools and their money etc. etc. etc.

So, times like these are opportunities for those who show fiscal
restraint during times of strong incomes. The trick is to cut back when
there is lots to go around, not when you 'have to' cut back.

IOW... my family's life-style is not going to change much as we are used
to being careful. Angela and I never needed to clip coupons, but always
did. Most things were bought on sale. Last weekend, we celebrated our
anniversary in Toronto, stayed in one of the best hotels for two nights,
saw two high quality plays at nice theaters, had some superb food.
Package deals, PriceLine, Coupons.. all made the whole trip very
affordable. Then we bought 3 leather jackets at a Danier Outlet store
and saved huge there too. We managed to keep a couple of grand of our
hard earned cash that weekend.

Life goes on as usual.

r

Swingman wrote:
"Terry Coombs" wrote in message
.. .
Swingman wrote:
"Terry Coombs" wrote \

Vista is indeed "Windows for Idiots" ...

More likely in this day and age: "Windows that Idiots Can't Run" ...

Dude , you do some seriously nice woodwork ! I'm a cabinetmaker by
trade , but production work doesn't allow such niceties as
fingerjointed corners ...

"Fingerjointed" corner? ... where?

Oops , dovetail corner on the walnut hope chest .
A horse is a horse , of course . Unless it's a mule . Well , they *do* look
a lot alike !
--
Snag
'90 Ultra "Strider"
'39 WLDD "Popcycle"
Buncha cars and a truck

"Terry Coombs" wrote

Oops , dovetail corner on the walnut hope chest .
A horse is a horse , of course . Unless it's a mule . Well , they *do*
look a lot alike !

LOL ... that they do.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Robatoy" wrote

It is at times like these that a lot of good toys are going cheap. Stuff
like motor bikes, power boats, even cottages up north are showing more
ForSale signs. (A lot of Michiganians are no longer willing to spend the
money on fuel to get there.)

Not cheap enough.

I want a bass boat. I'm watching craigslist in three states. Have the icons
on my desktop to prove it. I even have a lake with dock to put it in. I have
requested additional pictures from all the sucker sellers who will send
them, just so I can mas ... er, salivate.

That said, SWMBO just got off the phone after making me pay for youngest
daughter's round trip home from college for Thanksgiving.

.... and now the Christmas reservations must be made.

.... and that dock needs repair, and the permit for that is $250, then the
material, plus gas to get there.

So much for the farking bass boat ... now wondering if I can afford a cork
and cane pole?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Gary Heston" wrote

This is usually a symptom of memory problems, most often not enough of it.
Put in 4GB if your system will take it (only 64-bit versions of Windows
can address more than that; the 32-bit versions can only use 3.5GB). Use
the same brand and type modules; they will play well together better than
mixing brands or speeds.

Nope, not a memory problem. Just a lot more data and computations than the
original software was designed for. Which is why everybody is going to the
duocore.

One particular application I found allows me to use the quadcore. But it is
only one application. But the savings in functions, etc should justify the
extra cost. Not just yet theough. We'll see.


Another poster mentioned using ECC memory; that will also improve
stability,
but it adds to cost. It's usually found in servers rather than PCs, so
expect to spend $300+ for a motherboard, for example.


I will look into that. The problem with the server boards I have had in the
past, they don't run a lot of monitors. I have need for lots of monitors.
The big limit to the monitors I can run in this freezing and slowing
behavior when the data increases beyond a certain point.

I've been building systems at work recently with dual quad-core Intel Xeon
CPUs, SuperMicro X7DAL motherboards, 12GB of memory, and GeForce 8800GT
video cards, dual booting between Windows XP and RedHat Linux. Also built
some similar ones with 2GB and no fancy video in 1U rack cases (one of
them at 100% CPU puts out less heat than a dual 3.2GHz Xeon while doing
4x the work) for computation servers running Fedora 7. The users like
them quite a bit, and I haven't heard of any stability issues.


Sounds like my kind of machine! I been hearing about the 64 bit windows
seven. The memory constraints of older operating systems will be gone. I
am certain that a lot of my problems would go away with enough memory.

"Lee Michaels" wrote

Sounds like my kind of machine! I been hearing about the 64 bit windows
seven. The memory constraints of older operating systems will be gone. I
am certain that a lot of my problems would go away with enough memory.

Seems like that would hold true for processors also. In the old days in the
studio I always built dual processor mb's (the software was multi-threaded)
when digital recording was coming to the fore in the industry, and even with
the same amount of RAM, the fact that no processor was being run at, or
close to capacity did wonders for all those aberrations, lockups and
glitches that happened on a single processor machine.

I'm getting rusty on new technology, admittedly. I've gone from bleeding
edge to old fogey in the last four years ... but even though my geek status
has been revoked, I do watch John D. on his weekly "Cranky Geeks" podcast,
and am still convinced that Leo Laporte is a know nothing newcomer.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:56:21 -0500, the infamous "Swingman"
scrawled the following:



"Terry Coombs" wrote in message
. ..
Swingman wrote:
"Terry Coombs" wrote \

Vista is indeed "Windows for Idiots" ...

More likely in this day and age: "Windows that Idiots Can't Run" ...

Dude , you do some seriously nice woodwork ! I'm a cabinetmaker by trade
, but production work doesn't allow such niceties as fingerjointed corners
...

"Fingerjointed" corner? ... where?

Could he mean dovetailed joins, p'raps?


BTW , you mis-spelled "ruin" . Vista throws up so many flags , the
average sheeple won't dare change much for fear of crashing the system .

Pretty well proves the point that "average sheeple" aren't smart enough to
run it, eh?

The average OS isn't smart enough to run itself. I waited for two
years before moving up to XP. I'll give Vista an extra year for good
measure.

--
Some days, it's not even worth chewing through the restraints.

In article ,
Lee Michaels wrote:

"Gary Heston" wrote
[ ... ]

Another poster mentioned using ECC memory; that will also improve
stability,
but it adds to cost. It's usually found in servers rather than PCs, so
expect to spend $300+ for a motherboard, for example.


I will look into that. The problem with the server boards I have had in the
past, they don't run a lot of monitors. I have need for lots of monitors.
The big limit to the monitors I can run in this freezing and slowing
behavior when the data increases beyond a certain point.

How many monitors do you need? Most of our workstations are dual monitor
with the GeForce 8800GTs... Perhaps you would benefit more with a better
video adapter (or two) to offload the main CPU a bit.

I've been building systems at work recently with dual quad-core Intel Xeon
CPUs, SuperMicro X7DAL motherboards, 12GB of memory, and GeForce 8800GT
video cards, dual booting between Windows XP and RedHat Linux. Also built
some similar ones with 2GB and no fancy video in 1U rack cases (one of
them at 100% CPU puts out less heat than a dual 3.2GHz Xeon while doing
4x the work) for computation servers running Fedora 7. The users like
them quite a bit, and I haven't heard of any stability issues.


Sounds like my kind of machine! I been hearing about the 64 bit windows
seven. The memory constraints of older operating systems will be gone. I
am certain that a lot of my problems would go away with enough memory.

There is a 64-bit version of Windows XP currently available. You might also
consider Windows Server 2003; it might prove more stable for you.

There are also 64-bit versions of several Linux distributions, including
RedHat, if your apps are available for it.

However, whether Windows or Linux, your application would have to be
compiled for 64-bit to take advantage of the OS.


Gary

--
Gary Heston http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

Why is it that these days, the words "What idiot" are so frequently
followed by the words "at Microsoft"?

In article ,
Terry Coombs wrote:
Swingman wrote:
"Terry Coombs" wrote in message
.. .
[ ... ]
Dude , you do some seriously nice woodwork ! I'm a cabinetmaker by
trade , but production work doesn't allow such niceties as
fingerjointed corners ...

"Fingerjointed" corner? ... where?

Oops , dovetail corner on the walnut hope chest .
A horse is a horse , of course . Unless it's a mule . Well , they *do* look
a lot alike !

Finger joints tend to be equally spaced, dovetails usually aren't.

Definantly concur on the quality of the work, though, having spent most
of the afternoon looking at the project archive, very nice construction
and finishing.


Gary

--
Gary Heston http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

Why is it that these days, the words "What idiot" are so frequently
followed by the words "at Microsoft"?

In article ,
Swingman wrote:
[ ... ]
... and that dock needs repair, and the permit for that is $250, then the
material, plus gas to get there.

So much for the farking bass boat ... now wondering if I can afford a cork
and cane pole?

Have you considered building a wood strip canoe?

http://home.rochester.rr.com/cjbond/canoe/canoe.htm

is one example; should be a breeze for you. You've already got all the
tools, about all you'd need is the strongback.


Gary

--
Gary Heston http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

Why is it that these days, the words "What idiot" are so frequently
followed by the words "at Microsoft"?

On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 15:45:15 -0500, (Gary Heston)
wrote:


Definantly concur on the quality of the work, though, having spent most
of the afternoon looking at the project archive, very nice construction
and finishing.


Gary

Gosh ... thanks for the kind words! I'm just one of the average
woodworker joe's hereabouts. The woods is full of some mighty fine
woodworkers over here on the wRec.

www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Swingman wrote:

"Robatoy" wrote

It is at times like these that a lot of good toys are going cheap. Stuff
like motor bikes, power boats, even cottages up north are showing more
ForSale signs. (A lot of Michiganians are no longer willing to spend the
money on fuel to get there.)

Not cheap enough.

I want a bass boat. I'm watching craigslist in three states. Have the
icons on my desktop to prove it. I even have a lake with dock to put it
in. I have requested additional pictures from all the sucker sellers who
will send them, just so I can mas ... er, salivate.

That said, SWMBO just got off the phone after making me pay for youngest
daughter's round trip home from college for Thanksgiving.

... and now the Christmas reservations must be made.

... and that dock needs repair, and the permit for that is $250, then the
material, plus gas to get there.

So much for the farking bass boat ... now wondering if I can afford a cork
and cane pole?


Tell ya what, if times are that tight, I'll pitch in for the cork for you.
:-|
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

Tom Veatch wrote:

On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:57:15 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
wrote:

In tough times consumers tend to cut back...so where are you cutting
back, reprioritizing resources, whatever to make that dollar go
farther?

I am also posting this in the metal and wood working groups to hear
how those who pursue the hobby are allotting their resources.

Thanks

TMT

Retired, "tough times" haven't affected my pensions nor, so far, the
income from my securities. Market value of my holdings has decreased
but I've lost no money unless I sell them which I have no intention of
doing. In fact, I'm buying more while the price is low.

In general, I've decided not to participate in the tough times nor in
the media induced panic. Ever noticed that the prophesies of the doom
and gloom pundits are self-fulfilling.


Thank-you for that brief intrusion of sanity into the media-induced panic.

People, the "stock market" is NOT the economy regardless of what the
nightly news-readers say. Too many people use Wall Street like your
friendly neighborhood casino. When you do, expect to lose.

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

"Gary Heston" wrote

How many monitors do you need? Most of our workstations are dual monitor
with the GeForce 8800GTs... Perhaps you would benefit more with a better
video adapter (or two) to offload the main CPU a bit.


How many monitors do I need?? That is like asking how much sex do I need!

My applications cover so many different time periods and data, that it is
not possible to put them all together on one desktop. I am designing
workstations that will support on specialized poles, from 24 to as many as
40 flat panel displays. Another issue is the new wider flat panel displays.
Can my present applications utilize these wider dispalys? Or will they just
make it more difficult to see what needs to seen now? Again, details like
drivers and stresses on system resources need to be addressed.

Another big problem is tht nobody really addresses how their product will
perform in these extreme applictions. It really boils down to the fact that
there is a cycle involved as to how often you upgrade/replace hardware. You
get the best you can get at the time with funds available.

In article ,
Lee Michaels wrote:

"Gary Heston" wrote

How many monitors do you need? Most of our workstations are dual monitor
with the GeForce 8800GTs... Perhaps you would benefit more with a better
video adapter (or two) to offload the main CPU a bit.


How many monitors do I need?? That is like asking how much sex do I need!

My applications cover so many different time periods and data, that it is
not possible to put them all together on one desktop. I am designing
workstations that will support on specialized poles, from 24 to as many as
40 flat panel displays. Another issue is the new wider flat panel displays.
Can my present applications utilize these wider dispalys? Or will they just
make it more difficult to see what needs to seen now? Again, details like
drivers and stresses on system resources need to be addressed.

I'd say you're definantly a niche market, with that many displays required.
Have you looked into clusters? That would allow lots of monitors to be
supported, provide lots of CPUs and memory, and improve reliability.

Another big problem is tht nobody really addresses how their product will
perform in these extreme applictions. It really boils down to the fact that
there is a cycle involved as to how often you upgrade/replace hardware. You
get the best you can get at the time with funds available.

So, I suppose calling SGI is not an option...


Gary

--
Gary Heston http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

Why is it that these days, the words "What idiot" are so frequently
followed by the words "at Microsoft"?

Lee Michaels wrote:
"Gary Heston" wrote

How many monitors do you need? Most of our workstations are dual monitor
with the GeForce 8800GTs... Perhaps you would benefit more with a better
video adapter (or two) to offload the main CPU a bit.



How many monitors do I need?? That is like asking how much sex do I need!

My applications cover so many different time periods and data, that it is
not possible to put them all together on one desktop. I am designing
workstations that will support on specialized poles, from 24 to as many as
40 flat panel displays. Another issue is the new wider flat panel displays.
Can my present applications utilize these wider dispalys? Or will they just
make it more difficult to see what needs to seen now? Again, details like
drivers and stresses on system resources need to be addressed.

Another big problem is tht nobody really addresses how their product will
perform in these extreme applictions. It really boils down to the fact that
there is a cycle involved as to how often you upgrade/replace hardware. You
get the best you can get at the time with funds available.




I've been toying with that idea as well.

I hate digging through a bunch of small windows to looks something up
while I'm drawing or whatever.

A second (or third?) screen would be most useful.


--

Richard

(remove the X to email)

cavelamb himself wrote:

Lee Michaels wrote:
"Gary Heston" wrote

How many monitors do you need? Most of our workstations are dual monitor
with the GeForce 8800GTs... Perhaps you would benefit more with a better
video adapter (or two) to offload the main CPU a bit.

How many monitors do I need?? That is like asking how much sex do I need!

My applications cover so many different time periods and data, that it is
not possible to put them all together on one desktop. I am designing
workstations that will support on specialized poles, from 24 to as many as
40 flat panel displays. Another issue is the new wider flat panel displays.
Can my present applications utilize these wider dispalys? Or will they just
make it more difficult to see what needs to seen now? Again, details like
drivers and stresses on system resources need to be addressed.

Another big problem is tht nobody really addresses how their product will
perform in these extreme applictions. It really boils down to the fact that
there is a cycle involved as to how often you upgrade/replace hardware. You
get the best you can get at the time with funds available.

I've been toying with that idea as well.

I hate digging through a bunch of small windows to looks something up
while I'm drawing or whatever.

A second (or third?) screen would be most useful.

X/linux will allow you to have as many screens (desktops,not monitors)
as you want -- I use 4 and can move from one to another by moving my
mouse to the edge of the current screen. The Windows powertoys
(tweakui) will also allow you 4 screens.

--
Cheers,
Bev
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
No lawyering. Prosecutors will be violated.

"Gary Heston" wrote

I'd say you're definantly a niche market, with that many displays
required.
Have you looked into clusters? That would allow lots of monitors to be
supported, provide lots of CPUs and memory, and improve reliability.


OK, you are in an area that I have not heard of. What are clusters? The
present solution is to configure various windows machines with either 4, 6.
8 or 12 monitors. Then put them nex to each other.

Another problem is drivers. Many of these systems do not allow monitors to
be configured three high. So we configure two sets of whatever on the
bottom two high. Then a third unit on top, spread across the top of the
other units. They are then configured as a horizontal configuration. Then
the whole thing is run from three mice and micro keyboards. We use the
keyboards very little for these programs.

If you have any other suggestions, like the clusters, etc, send them along.
I am in research mode for the next systems to be installed in the next 3 - 6
months.

On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:57:15 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
wrote:

In tough times consumers tend to cut back...so where are you cutting
back, reprioritizing resources, whatever to make that dollar go
farther?

I am also posting this in the metal and wood working groups to hear
how those who pursue the hobby are allotting their resources.

Thanks

TMT

Well I built a sawmill 3 years ago so wood isn't a problem for me. The
economy has actually made me get into my hobby more. I find that I
stay home after work most of the time now and just build things to
keep my mind off the economy and job fears.

Saying that though, if the economy gets worse and I loose my job I'll
probably have to sell my place, get an apartment and get rid of my
tools since I won't have a place to store them.

On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 20:38:37 -0500, cavelamb himself
wrote:

I've been toying with that idea as well.

I hate digging through a bunch of small windows to looks something up
while I'm drawing or whatever.

A second (or third?) screen would be most useful.

I've been using 2 monitors for a few years...
I don't have room or budget for more, and with most versions of windoz, it's
very easy to set up if your graphics card supports 2..
It's basically just an extended desktop, and you drag whatever you want over to
the extension..

I don't do a lot of high end stuff, but I enjoy the simple things like having
Frontpage on one monitor and Photoshop on the other, or when being bad, a game
on one while I still see my email, icons, task bar, etc..

OH! Almost forgot that for our karaoke gig, the wife uses her monitor to run the
program and the extended desktop to run the 3 TV sets that the words appear on..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 12:47:58 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

The average OS isn't smart enough to run itself. I waited for two
years before moving up to XP. I'll give Vista an extra year for good
measure.

My computer blew a motherboard a few months ago...
I shopped all over the web for an XP machine and all they offered was Vista..

Since my wife is braver than I, we got HER a nice machine with Vista, and I took
over her old computer (a slightly faster version of mine) and just moved her
drive to D and threw mine in as C..
She actually likes Vista, unless she needs to print something out of Word or
Excel.. then she has to use my XP machine.. and we did have to move all the
printers from her computer to mine..

It appears that Micro$oft wants you to buy Office 07 as well as Vista..
Vista does not really like Office 03.. Go figure!


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

I had some of your etouffee on Friday night....

Very tasty and has now been added to the permanent list
of stuff to eat.

Swingman wrote:

So, screw 'em ... it's back to my old coon ass ways.

On Oct 25, 7:24 pm, "Buddy Matlosz" wrote:
In your case, you can downsize to Just_Enough_Tools.

B.

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message

...

In tough times consumers tend to cut back...so where are you cutting
back, reprioritizing resources, whatever to make that dollar go
farther?

I am also posting this in the metal and wood working groups to hear
how those who pursue the hobby are allotting their resources.

Thanks

TMT



Well, last year we had a high efficiency natural gas furnace
installed; 94% vs 64% efficiency. Two years ago we increased the
insulation from 6" to 15 1/2" in 1200 sq. ft. attic. Had the front
thermopanes replaced... They'd begun to fog up in the evenings during
winter. The walls have 6" fibreglas plus 1" styrofoam and 4" bricks
already. The windows are still tight. Exterior doors were all
replaced with metal doors and urethane foam insulation including
magnetic door seals. Installed low energy "curly" bulbs in the
workshop. Sold all US investments 2 years ago.

My better half is very frugal by nature so no prob. there. We
traveled less this summer but not because of gas prices.

Apart from that we already own most conveniences, thus no changes
you'd notice. Shop projects are sporadic at best as is machinery
acquisition.. Material costs are minimal.

Wolfgang

"Pat Barber" wrote


I had some of your etouffee on Friday night....

Very tasty and has now been added to the permanent list
of stuff to eat.

Swingman wrote:

So, screw 'em ... it's back to my old coon ass ways.

Glad you enjoyed it .... one of my favorites for a quick meal that tastes
like it took all day to cook.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

mac davis wrote in
:

My computer blew a motherboard a few months ago...
I shopped all over the web for an XP machine and all they offered was
Vista..

Since my wife is braver than I, we got HER a nice machine with Vista,
and I took over her old computer (a slightly faster version of mine)
and just moved her drive to D and threw mine in as C..
She actually likes Vista, unless she needs to print something out of
Word or Excel.. then she has to use my XP machine.. and we did have to
move all the printers from her computer to mine..

Our printers are attached to the upstairs desktop. Her XP laptop and my
Vista laptop can easily print to the Brother 5040 monchrome laser or the
Canon pixma whatever color inkjet. No problem, except running upstairs
to change paper and collect the printout. Same for daughter and son and
their Vista laptops. It took a while to get the machines to recognize
the printers on the workgroup in my house ...

It appears that Micro$oft wants you to buy Office 07 as well as
Vista.
That may be so, but I still like Office 2003 much better, and it works
under Vista Home Basic just fine, so far. Knocking on wood ...

Vista does not really like Office 03.. Go figure!
Huh?

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

In article ,
Lee Michaels wrote:

"Gary Heston" wrote

I'd say you're definantly a niche market, with that many displays
required.
Have you looked into clusters? That would allow lots of monitors to be
supported, provide lots of CPUs and memory, and improve reliability.


OK, you are in an area that I have not heard of. What are clusters? The
present solution is to configure various windows machines with either 4, 6.
8 or 12 monitors. Then put them nex to each other.

Clusters are interconnected systems; they can be configured in various
ways, you'd probably want a load-balancing setup. Downside is that where
Windows is concerned, only server operating systems support clusters.

A search of www.microsoft.com will produce more and more detailed info.

Another problem is drivers. Many of these systems do not allow monitors to
be configured three high. So we configure two sets of whatever on the
bottom two high. Then a third unit on top, spread across the top of the
other units. They are then configured as a horizontal configuration. Then
the whole thing is run from three mice and micro keyboards. We use the
keyboards very little for these programs.

Sounds like an impresive setup. Most of what I take care of is in racks.

If you have any other suggestions, like the clusters, etc, send them along.
I am in research mode for the next systems to be installed in the next 3 - 6
months.

You might contact your video adapter vendor to see if they'll do a custom
driver for you, or provide the source code to a developer working for you
to get it to handle your preferred monitor configuration.

Get an evaluation copy of Windows Server 2008 and try running your application
on it. While you don't need most of the services (just disable them), its'
superior memory management and less "user experience" crud should prove
to be much more stable. Anything running on XP should run on it with no
problems.

I gather your application isn't available on Linux/Unix/BSD; if it were
and was multithreaded, a Linux cluster would be an excellent choice.


Gary

--
Gary Heston http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

Why is it that these days, the words "What idiot" are so frequently
followed by the words "at Microsoft"?

In article ,
cavelamb himself wrote:

[ ... ]
I've been toying with that idea as well.

I hate digging through a bunch of small windows to looks something up
while I'm drawing or whatever.

A second (or third?) screen would be most useful.

Windows XP will support dual monitors, either using a dual-head
video adapter, or two of the same type. A good dual-head adapter
(like the GeForce 8800GT) is the better choice. (Why? Because while
a lot of motherboards have two PCI Express slots, they're usually
not the same speed--one is 16x, the other is 1x or 4x. One card in
the 16x slot gives better performace.)


Gary

--
Gary Heston http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

Why is it that these days, the words "What idiot" are so frequently
followed by the words "at Microsoft"?

The Real Bev wrote:

Another big problem is tht nobody really addresses how their product
will perform in these extreme applictions. It really boils down to
the fact that there is a cycle involved as to how often you
upgrade/replace hardware. You get the best you can get at the time
with funds available.


I've been toying with that idea as well.

I hate digging through a bunch of small windows to looks something up
while I'm drawing or whatever.

A second (or third?) screen would be most useful.


X/linux will allow you to have as many screens (desktops,not monitors)
as you want -- I use 4 and can move from one to another by moving my
mouse to the edge of the current screen. The Windows powertoys
(tweakui) will also allow you 4 screens.


Thanks Real,

I'lve heard of TweakUI, but never played with it.
Guess it's time...



--

Richard

(remove the X to email)

cavelamb himself wrote:

The Real Bev wrote:

Another big problem is tht nobody really addresses how their product
will perform in these extreme applictions. It really boils down to
the fact that there is a cycle involved as to how often you
upgrade/replace hardware. You get the best you can get at the time
with funds available.


I've been toying with that idea as well.

I hate digging through a bunch of small windows to looks something up
while I'm drawing or whatever.

A second (or third?) screen would be most useful.


X/linux will allow you to have as many screens (desktops,not monitors)
as you want -- I use 4 and can move from one to another by moving my
mouse to the edge of the current screen. The Windows powertoys
(tweakui) will also allow you 4 screens.

You have to click on the 1/2/3/4 down at the bottom, but it works.

Thanks Real,

I'lve heard of TweakUI, but never played with it.
Guess it's time...

M$ puts a BEWARE THERE BE DRAGONS HERE notice on it, but I've used one
or another of its functions since 1995 with no problems at all. It
contains stuff that SHOULD have been in the OS but, for some reason, isn't.

--
Cheers,
Bev
================================================== =========
An organizer for the "Million Agoraphobics March" expressed
disappointment in the turnout for last weekend's event.