After reading the entire thread, I'm sort of shocked by most of the
opinions.

It's likely that I'm making a lot more than the delivery guy. So for
me, $20 to make his day and to encourage him to place the machine in my
garage and wait for me to unpack it is a small price to pay. I know
for a lot of people cash is (their) king. But for me, I never let it
get in the way of treating people right. For me, the $20 is not too
significant, i'll never miss it, and probably means more to the
delivery guy that it does to me. And before you think I was born in to
money or something, I was the child of a single mother in a trailer
park and took seven years to pay my own way through college while
working two jobs and raising three children.

As for the restaurant, I try to leave 20% unless I have to get my own
food, then it's less.

If you want to see the power of tipping, consider this: I have soon to
be nine children. When I take most of them to a restaurant I've never
been to, the waitresses fight because no one wants our table. But if I
tip my normal 20%, the next time, they fight because they want our
table.

The same is true for the delivery guy. If I continue to buy grizzly
machines, there's a good chance that the same saia delivery guy will
bring me the machine. In the past, I could tell that some of the
drivers were jealous of my shop, either because of things they said, or
just the look on their face. I think the $20 in this case does several
things. From an interpersonal relationship standpoint, it ensures that
they'll remember me the next time. It (most likely) ensures good
service this time. It brightens their day. And from a practical
standpoint, it may prevent them from showing up at 3am to clean out the
shop.

You might view this as an extortion payment, but I tend to think of it
as good people skills.

James E. Cannon wrote:
When a truck driver drops a pallet in your garage, is he expecting a tip?
How much? What do you think?

I don't think they're expecting it. I give them a $20.

It's never a question with the UPS guy since he is already gone before I can
even answer the door, but the freight guy is a different story.

UPS is different.

This is why the whole concept of tipping sucks.

I agree when it's not clear what the rules are. Russia is a tipping
culture and I had nothing but problems there. The translator said
restaurants are 10%, I left more because it felt wrong. The bellhop in
moscow thought I was a cheapskate for tipping him $5.

brian

"Joe Bemier" wrote in message
...

And, of course, I always ask- *Do you post or D/L copyrighted
material*

If he says *What?*....or *No*......I tip.


There you go, LOL.

"New Wave Dave" writes:

and he lowered the crate onto my flatbed dolly using the liftgate. The
bill came the next week. $57+ (fifty-something cents a pound) for the
liftgate! How else would one suppose it the merchandise gets from the
bed of the truck to the ground?
Nest time, assuming there is a next time I just have the driver shove it
out the back, then file a damage claim.

The standard in the freight industry is that the customer removes the
freight from the truck unless you pay extra for a liftgate.

This ain't Fedex Ground or UPS.

Brian Elfert

"Steve B" wrote in message
news:iNcCg.16406$RD.1434@fed1read08...

"New Wave Dave" wrote

Is it a Teamster thing?
--
"New Wave" Dave In Houston

You got a problem with Teamsters?

Only that I'd like to know what happened to Jimmy Hoffa. (KIDDING,
Steve!)

Having spent 25 years with the [now defunct] Suffering Pacific
Railroad as a dues paying member of the Brotherhood of Railway, Airline,
Steamship Clerks I am certainly aware that if it weren't for unions most
people today would not make the scale they do. And, I paid my dues all
the years I was a middle management officer. So, in a general sense. I
am pro-union.
Back to my original post, the liftgate charge just caught me off
guard. The order was FREIGHT PREPAID and that additional (and
surprising) $57 came directly off the already slim bottom line for the
job. I also know how freight tariffs work having spent more than a
couple of my railroad years as a rate clerk.
--
"New Wave" Dave In Houston

On Tue, 8 Aug 2006 14:10:52 -0500, "James E. Cannon" wrote:

I've decided that this is on-topic for this NG since many of us order large
tools that have to be delivered freight.

When a truck driver drops a pallet in your garage, is he expecting a tip?
How much? What do you think?

It's never a question with the UPS guy since he is already gone before I can
even answer the door, but the freight guy is a different story.

This is why the whole concept of tipping sucks.

I have tipped them before...
To me, the idea of a tip other than in a restaurant, where they pretty much make
a living off tips, is that if someone does something "above and beyond", you
reward them...

If they drop off a cutoff saw at your front porch, thank them and drive on..
OTOH, if they deliver a table saw and take it where you want it, especially
where stairs are involved, I think an additional "thank you" is required..

Sometimes it can be in the form of money, sometimes a little bowl, pen, or
whatever you make in quantity is nice.. other times just a cold bottle of water
from the frig is greatly appreciated...
I think that we all want to be thanked and appreciated, don't we?

Tipping a delivery crew now might make that crew more helpful when they deliver
that next saw to someone in the group... *g*
YMWV
Mac

https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

Very generous you are. I however feel that if you get bad service or
bad food the problem should be corrected before even thinking of
presenting a reward to the waiter. Cleaning up is part of the job,
no one would go to a restaraunt with messy tables. There are crappy
jobs in every industry. Waiters have the benefit of a reward if he
does his job correctly. His job does include making sure that you are
happy with what you ordered.


We ate at a restaurant recently, and our waitress happened to have some
relatives of hers in the booth 2 booths over. So instead of servicing us,
she kept standing there gabbing with them. After 20 minutes, I stood up
and walked over to her and asked for drink refills. She gave me a dirty
look like I was an intruder and she said ok. Then I sat down, and a few
minutes later, my wife said: "go ask her for more bread also." So I walk
over to the waitress, who's still gabbing, and as I'm walking up she says:
"You already told me to get refills; I'm on my way to get them!" and gives
me a look that would peel paint. I left her a penny tip and called the
manager about her. Buttholes don't deserve to be rewarded with tips.

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"Leon" wrote in message
t...

"Steve B" wrote in message
news:nGcCg.16404$RD.15886@fed1read08...

I can tell you never ran into a real freight man. They have the power to
send your stuff to Cleveland if they want to. And do all sorts of things
to hold up your business, freight, and heartbeat.

I used to love running into your types. I was a Teamster, and knew 98
ways to make your **** disappear for long periods of time.


And some people wonder why the union has such a bad reputation. Teamsters
DO NOT have a monopoly on having the ability to screw a customer. Most
every one and every business knows how to screw his customer, however the
ones with any sense at all realize that the customer is the one that you
actually want to please.


I have found out some things from dealing with the public.

Most people are good honest people.

Most people appreciate good hard work and effort.

Some people are angry at the world, and no matter what you do, they will be
mad at you.

Some people cannot be satisfied because of their anger.

Some people just cannot be satisfied no matter what you do.

Some people are dishonest and take great delight at screwing over others.

You cannot please some customers. That guy that said, "The customer is
always right" was full of it.

Steve

"Steve B" writes:

"David" wrote in message
...
James E. Cannon wrote:

It's not that I felt so grateful that I "wanted" to tip (I already paid
$125 for shipping), I just don't want to be seen as a cheapskate and
maybe pay for it later with late/damaged shipments if I do business with
the same driver again.
Isn't that rather cynical? I mean really--expecting that the SAME driver
is going to damage upcoming shipments to you purposely and vindictively,
because you didn't pay him "protection"?? Good grief, man, that's not how
it works! If you go to a restaurant and order a couple of $35+ meals for
you and the missus and leave a $5 tip, THAT'S considered being a
cheapskate, as anyone paying for that expensive of a meal can certainly
afford a 50% tip.

Dave

Sorry, Dave. That's not how it works. I worked conventions in Las Vegas
for a lot of years. Repeat customers.

You had one yokel this year that stiffed you after going all out for them,
and next year, attitude was different. The companies are limited to a $50
limit on lost/damaged freight. You could run your tines through a box when
no one was looking, the exhibitor could lose many thousands of dollars in

That's a felony.

exhibits, and the culprit was never found. Or, you put an "empty" sticker
on a full box, and it goes to the boneyard. Cost of retrieval, about two
grand.

Either one of these should get you fired, and by rights, in jail.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Steve B wrote:


"Tex" wrote

IMHO, it's your choice and consider tips as nothing more than wages a
customer pays other peoples' help. It's your money; do as you wish. As
for me, I figure they're already getting paid by somebody else to do a
job. If they don't like their salary, they can bargain for a larger one
or change jobs. Hard nosed? Perhaps? So be it!

I can tell you never ran into a real freight man. They have the power to
send your stuff to Cleveland if they want to. And do all sorts of things
to hold up your business, freight, and heartbeat.

I used to love running into your types. I was a Teamster, and knew 98
ways to make your **** disappear for long periods of time.

OK, tell us _one_ way for a truck driver to "make your **** disappear for
long periods of time" without having anybody ask how it got off the truck
between loading and delivery.

Steve

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Uh, signing it off as delivered, and dropping it in the river? Marking it
"refused - return to sender" and scribbling a signature? Marking "unloading
dock closed" - "return to terminal"? Spilling a can of oil on it, and
marking "hazardous material leaking from crate"?

Need I go on?

Every company has rules regarding handling and delivery. Any good freight
man knows how to hurt a "customer" who is a PITA.

Steve

Steve

"brianlanning" wrote in message
ups.com...
After reading the entire thread, I'm sort of shocked by most of the
opinions.

It's likely that I'm making a lot more than the delivery guy. So for
me, $20 to make his day and to encourage him to place the machine in my
garage and wait for me to unpack it is a small price to pay. I know
for a lot of people cash is (their) king. But for me, I never let it
get in the way of treating people right. For me, the $20 is not too
significant, i'll never miss it, and probably means more to the
delivery guy that it does to me. And before you think I was born in to
money or something, I was the child of a single mother in a trailer
park and took seven years to pay my own way through college while
working two jobs and raising three children.

As for the restaurant, I try to leave 20% unless I have to get my own
food, then it's less.

If you want to see the power of tipping, consider this: I have soon to
be nine children. When I take most of them to a restaurant I've never
been to, the waitresses fight because no one wants our table. But if I
tip my normal 20%, the next time, they fight because they want our
table.

The same is true for the delivery guy. If I continue to buy grizzly
machines, there's a good chance that the same saia delivery guy will
bring me the machine. In the past, I could tell that some of the
drivers were jealous of my shop, either because of things they said, or
just the look on their face. I think the $20 in this case does several
things. From an interpersonal relationship standpoint, it ensures that
they'll remember me the next time. It (most likely) ensures good
service this time. It brightens their day. And from a practical
standpoint, it may prevent them from showing up at 3am to clean out the
shop.

You might view this as an extortion payment, but I tend to think of it
as good people skills.

James E. Cannon wrote:

I agree.

Steve

"New Wave Dave" wrote in message
...

"Steve B" wrote in message
news:iNcCg.16406$RD.1434@fed1read08...

"New Wave Dave" wrote

Is it a Teamster thing?
--
"New Wave" Dave In Houston

You got a problem with Teamsters?

Only that I'd like to know what happened to Jimmy Hoffa. (KIDDING,
Steve!)

Having spent 25 years with the [now defunct] Suffering Pacific Railroad
as a dues paying member of the Brotherhood of Railway, Airline, Steamship
Clerks I am certainly aware that if it weren't for unions most people
today would not make the scale they do. And, I paid my dues all the years
I was a middle management officer. So, in a general sense. I am
pro-union.
Back to my original post, the liftgate charge just caught me off guard.
The order was FREIGHT PREPAID and that additional (and surprising) $57
came directly off the already slim bottom line for the job. I also know
how freight tariffs work having spent more than a couple of my railroad
years as a rate clerk.
--
"New Wave" Dave In Houston


You know, it's funny how a $20 tip can get a driver NOT to charge a $57
liftgate charge and write: Unloaded by customer's forklift. But hey, that
would be bribery/extortion according to some people who don't understand
simple math.

Steve

"Steve B" wrote in message
news:mtnCg.16424$RD.125@fed1read08...


I have found out some things from dealing with the public.

As have I.

Most people are good honest people.

Correct

Most people appreciate good hard work and effort.

Correct

Some people are angry at the world, and no matter what you do, they will
be mad at you.

Correct


Some people cannot be satisfied because of their anger.

Correct

Some people just cannot be satisfied no matter what you do.

Correct

Some people are dishonest and take great delight at screwing over others.

Correct

You cannot please some customers.

Correct

That guy that said, "The customer is
always right" was full of it.

Not really. The customer is always correct if you want to keep him as a
customer. Some times you have to just swallow you pride and get past it.
The customer is always correct is a state of mind not a reality.

Steve B wrote:
"David" wrote in message
. ..
James E. Cannon wrote:

It's not that I felt so grateful that I "wanted" to tip (I already paid
$125 for shipping), I just don't want to be seen as a cheapskate and
maybe pay for it later with late/damaged shipments if I do business with
the same driver again.
Isn't that rather cynical? I mean really--expecting that the SAME driver
is going to damage upcoming shipments to you purposely and vindictively,
because you didn't pay him "protection"?? Good grief, man, that's not how
it works! If you go to a restaurant and order a couple of $35+ meals for
you and the missus and leave a $5 tip, THAT'S considered being a
cheapskate, as anyone paying for that expensive of a meal can certainly
afford a 50% tip.

Dave

Sorry, Dave. That's not how it works. I worked conventions in Las Vegas
for a lot of years. Repeat customers.

You had one yokel this year that stiffed you after going all out for them,
and next year, attitude was different. The companies are limited to a $50
limit on lost/damaged freight. You could run your tines through a box when
no one was looking, the exhibitor could lose many thousands of dollars in
exhibits, and the culprit was never found. Or, you put an "empty" sticker
on a full box, and it goes to the boneyard. Cost of retrieval, about two
grand.

We gave good service. We were paid well. But a stiff is a stiff when
someone gets more than they pay for. Or intentionally screws you.

Paybacks are a bitch.

And they're so easy.

Steve


Thank gawd I never had anyone like you working for me...you've got a
serious attitude problem and are most likely both passive aggressive AND
antisocial. Now go back to your destruction derby...


Dave

You cannot please some customers.

Correct

That guy that said, "The customer is
always right" was full of it.

Not really. The customer is always correct if you want to keep him as
a customer. Some times you have to just swallow you pride and get
past it. The customer is always correct is a state of mind not a
reality.


When a company does screw up (it happens) and it effects the customer,
the worker from the company who is now dealing with the customer, even
if not directly responsible for the error, should at least apologize to
the customer before attempting to resolve the problem. In all of my
years dealing with companies and working for companies and with
customers, I have noticed that customers get real ****ed off real fast
unless they get an apology. Sometimes, arrogant employees refuse to say
"sorry" to the customer, so the customer stays ****ed off, and the
situation further escalates into bigger problems: legal problems,
cancelled contracts, etc.. So as representatives of our companies (and
we who work for co's are), regardless if we directly caused the error,
we need to at least apologize to the customer. To acknowledge the fact
that the customer has been inconvenienced usually is enough to satisfy
the customer and keep them coming back to your co..


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Steve B wrote:


"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Steve B wrote:


"Tex" wrote

IMHO, it's your choice and consider tips as nothing more than wages a
customer pays other peoples' help. It's your money; do as you wish.
As for me, I figure they're already getting paid by somebody else to do
a
job. If they don't like their salary, they can bargain for a larger
one
or change jobs. Hard nosed? Perhaps? So be it!

I can tell you never ran into a real freight man. They have the power
to
send your stuff to Cleveland if they want to. And do all sorts of
things to hold up your business, freight, and heartbeat.

I used to love running into your types. I was a Teamster, and knew 98
ways to make your **** disappear for long periods of time.

OK, tell us _one_ way for a truck driver to "make your **** disappear for
long periods of time" without having anybody ask how it got off the truck
between loading and delivery.

Steve

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Uh, signing it off as delivered, and dropping it in the river?

And how do you explain why the signature doesn't match the customer's?

Marking it
"refused - return to sender" and scribbling a signature?

Ditto.

Marking
"unloading
dock closed" - "return to terminal"?

And when it gets back to the terminal then what do you say to your boss when
the irate customer who has been standing on the loading dock all day
waiting for the shipment complains about it?

Spilling a can of oil on it, and
marking "hazardous material leaking from crate"?

And of course you are qualified to determine that the material is hazardous.

Need I go on?

What I'm seeing from you is a list of ways for a driver to find himself out
of a job. Sorry, but none of those "make your **** disappear for long
periods of time" except the dropping in the river bit and on that one
you've committed grand larceny and can look to spend a good long time in
jail.

Every company has rules regarding handling and delivery. Any good freight
man knows how to hurt a "customer" who is a PITA.

Seems to me that what you're describing doesn't leave the "good freight man"
any better off than if he'd just swatted the customer with a two-by-four.
In every case it is clear who was in charge of the shipment when it went
astray and so it is clear who gets docked/fired/jailed/tossed in the river
for it.

By the way, who do you work for, I want to be sure never to hire them.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 06:51:22 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

henry wrote:

I give 20% to wait staff because I know they make a couple of bucks an
hour and depend on it. Not to mention the time setting up or clean up
making no tips. If outback gave me lousy food I might resort to 15%.
but that is wrong because it proably was the kitchen fault and not the
wait staff.

If the food is lousy it's not the waiter's fault, but part of the tip
usually goes to the cook (you think the waiter gets to keep it all?).

Well, in all the restaurants I ever cooked in neither I nor any other
person in the kitchen ever saw a penny of the tips. The waiters in one
place used to moan about only making $20-$30 an hour in tips (back in
the 70's!) while as the lead line cook I only made about $6.

If the food is bad tell the server and have them pass the gripe on to
the cook. If the service is bad tell the server and minimize the tip.
If they're both bad tell the manager and don't tip anyone.
--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

I heard and remembered an explanation from a boss years
ago: "The customer may not always be right, but, he is
always the customer."

John

--
"grappletech" wrote in
message ...
| You cannot please some customers.
|
| Correct
|
| That guy that said, "The customer is
| always right" was full of it.
|
| Not really. The customer is always correct if you
want to keep him as
| a customer. Some times you have to just swallow
you pride and get
| past it. The customer is always correct is a state
of mind not a
| reality.
|
| snipped
|

"John Flatley" wrote in message
...
I heard and remembered an explanation from a boss years
ago: "The customer may not always be right, but, he is
always the customer."


Smart guy.

"grappletech" wrote

I left her a penny tip and called the
manager about her. Buttholes don't deserve to be rewarded with tips.

Whenever I get bad service, bad food, or just bad anything, I NEVER EVER
leave without a face to face with the manager to let them know. In many
cases, it is not the restaurant's doing, and they appreciate the heads up.

We had two OBNOXIOUS children in a booth near us at a Mexican restaurant one
night. Screaming and running around. I have been going to this restaurant
chain for decades. When I complained to the manager, she said, "This IS a
family restaurant." I did the meanest nastiest thing I could. I told her
that she would get no more of my business, that I would bring no more family
or guests to the restaurant, and would not suggest it when asked for a good
Mexican restaurant.

Her attitude was, whatever.

Usually they appreciate being told about a crappy server or cook. AND I
will also go to the trouble of turning in a good report on an exceptionally
good performance.

But I always do it face to face. One time I got a $100 gift certificate at
a really good restaurant for reporting something I didn't like.

Steve

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message
...
"Steve B" writes:

"David" wrote in message
m...
James E. Cannon wrote:

It's not that I felt so grateful that I "wanted" to tip (I already paid
$125 for shipping), I just don't want to be seen as a cheapskate and
maybe pay for it later with late/damaged shipments if I do business
with
the same driver again.
Isn't that rather cynical? I mean really--expecting that the SAME
driver
is going to damage upcoming shipments to you purposely and vindictively,
because you didn't pay him "protection"?? Good grief, man, that's not
how
it works! If you go to a restaurant and order a couple of $35+ meals
for
you and the missus and leave a $5 tip, THAT'S considered being a
cheapskate, as anyone paying for that expensive of a meal can certainly
afford a 50% tip.

Dave

Sorry, Dave. That's not how it works. I worked conventions in Las Vegas
for a lot of years. Repeat customers.

You had one yokel this year that stiffed you after going all out for them,
and next year, attitude was different. The companies are limited to a $50
limit on lost/damaged freight. You could run your tines through a box
when
no one was looking, the exhibitor could lose many thousands of dollars in

That's a felony.

exhibits, and the culprit was never found. Or, you put an "empty" sticker
on a full box, and it goes to the boneyard. Cost of retrieval, about two
grand.

Either one of these should get you fired, and by rights, in jail.


I can see you've never been a Teamster union member.

"J. Clarke" wrote


By the way, who do you work for, I want to be sure never to hire them.

--
--John

I'm happily retired. You need to get those rose colored glasses checked for
a new strength. Your view of reality does not coincide with the real thing.

Yes, life's not fair, and there's no justice in the world, and some things
are just not right. For you to prattle on about such things just shows you
must be a Liberal Democrat. These things happen every day.

Steve

"Steve B" wrote in message
news:bKqCg.34$rT5.31@fed1read01...

We had two OBNOXIOUS children in a booth near us at a Mexican restaurant
one night. Screaming and running around. I have been going to this
restaurant chain for decades. When I complained to the manager, she said,
"This IS a family restaurant." I did the meanest nastiest thing I could.
I told her that she would get no more of my business, that I would bring
no more family or guests to the restaurant, and would not suggest it when
asked for a good Mexican restaurant.

Screw the manager, I tell the parents face to face and that usually works
remarkabley well.

"Leon" wrote

That guy that said, "The customer is
always right" was full of it.

Not really. The customer is always correct if you want to keep him as a
customer. Some times you have to just swallow you pride and get past it.
The customer is always correct is a state of mind not a reality.

Yup. And when they become a royal PITA, the profit must be weighed against
the aggravation. Sometimes it is actually financially advisable to cease
doing business with some people. I was in specialty fabrication, and turned
down more than one customer. I usually found that the customer that
replaced them was better. My Tylenol and PeptoBismol cost surely went down.

Steve

"David" wrote

Thank gawd I never had anyone like you working for me...you've got a
serious attitude problem and are most likely both passive aggressive AND
antisocial. Now go back to your destruction derby...


Dave

If you did, you never knew it. Freight crews are generally an pretty tight
and independent lot.

Destruction derby? WTF does that mean? I'm happily retired.

Steve

If the food is lousy it's not the waiter's fault, but part of the tip
usually goes to the cook (you think the waiter gets to keep it all?).

Yes. Cocktail waitresses tip their bartenders. Waiters may kick a little
to the maitre d'. But I never heard of the cook getting in on the tips.
Anywhere.

YMMV.

Steve

"Tim Douglass" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 06:51:22 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

Well, in all the restaurants I ever cooked in neither I nor any other
person in the kitchen ever saw a penny of the tips. The waiters in one
place used to moan about only making $20-$30 an hour in tips (back in
the 70's!) while as the lead line cook I only made about $6.

I have a nephew that was working to become a Su Chef and had been in the
business since the early 90's until recently. When I asked him several
years ago about tips for the cooking staff he simply laughed. This is in
Houston.

"Steve B" wrote in message
news:bKqCg.34$rT5.31@fed1read01...

"grappletech" wrote

I left her a penny tip and called the
manager about her. Buttholes don't deserve to be rewarded with tips.

Whenever I get bad service, bad food, or just bad anything, I NEVER EVER
leave without a face to face with the manager to let them know. In many
cases, it is not the restaurant's doing, and they appreciate the heads up.

We had two OBNOXIOUS children in a booth near us at a Mexican restaurant
one night. Screaming and running around. I have been going to this
restaurant chain for decades. When I complained to the manager, she said,
"This IS a family restaurant." I did the meanest nastiest thing I could.
I told her that she would get no more of my business, that I would bring
no more family or guests to the restaurant, and would not suggest it when
asked for a good Mexican restaurant.

Her attitude was, whatever.

Usually they appreciate being told about a crappy server or cook. AND I
will also go to the trouble of turning in a good report on an
exceptionally good performance.

But I always do it face to face. One time I got a $100 gift certificate
at a really good restaurant for reporting something I didn't like.

Steve

It's the managers fault because you don't like kids???

I would have probably shared the opinion of the manager.

"Leon" wrote in message
m...

"Steve B" wrote in message
news:bKqCg.34$rT5.31@fed1read01...

We had two OBNOXIOUS children in a booth near us at a Mexican restaurant
one night. Screaming and running around. I have been going to this
restaurant chain for decades. When I complained to the manager, she
said, "This IS a family restaurant." I did the meanest nastiest thing I
could. I told her that she would get no more of my business, that I would
bring no more family or guests to the restaurant, and would not suggest
it when asked for a good Mexican restaurant.

Screw the manager, I tell the parents face to face and that usually works
remarkabley well.

The parents were mirror images of the children.

"Locutus" wrote

It's the managers fault because you don't like kids???

I would have probably shared the opinion of the manager.


Huh? They're running around doing that scream that feels like an ice pick
in your ear, and you think I don't like kids?

I have kids.

I have grandkids.

And we don't let them be a PITA to others, and we sure as hell don't let
them run all over the place in public establishments acting like screaming
heathens.

Steve

"Steve B" wrote in message
news:ForCg.44$rT5.25@fed1read01...

"Locutus" wrote

It's the managers fault because you don't like kids???

I would have probably shared the opinion of the manager.


Huh? They're running around doing that scream that feels like an ice pick
in your ear, and you think I don't like kids?

I have kids.

I have grandkids.

And we don't let them be a PITA to others, and we sure as hell don't let
them run all over the place in public establishments acting like screaming
heathens.

Steve

If they did, would that be the establishments fault or the parents fault?

"Steve B" wrote in message
news:UmrCg.43$rT5.28@fed1read01...

The parents were mirror images of the children.


All the more reason to explain proper public behavior to the parents.

"Leon" wrote

A good and successful salesman or representative has to swallow
his pride on occasion and try to see it from his customers point if view.

I saw a cute cartoon: Man talking to a lady at a complaints desk.

Man says, Lady, if we let you keep the merchandise, refund all your money,
AND shoot the salesman, then would you be happy?

"Locutus" wrote in
:


"Steve B" wrote in message
news:bKqCg.34$rT5.31@fed1read01...

"grappletech" wrote

I left her a penny tip and called the
manager about her. Buttholes don't deserve to be rewarded with
tips.

Whenever I get bad service, bad food, or just bad anything, I NEVER
EVER leave without a face to face with the manager to let them know.
In many cases, it is not the restaurant's doing, and they appreciate
the heads up.

We had two OBNOXIOUS children in a booth near us at a Mexican
restaurant one night. Screaming and running around. I have been
going to this restaurant chain for decades. When I complained to the
manager, she said, "This IS a family restaurant." I did the meanest
nastiest thing I could. I told her that she would get no more of my
business, that I would bring no more family or guests to the
restaurant, and would not suggest it when asked for a good Mexican
restaurant.

Her attitude was, whatever.

Usually they appreciate being told about a crappy server or cook.
AND I will also go to the trouble of turning in a good report on an
exceptionally good performance.

But I always do it face to face. One time I got a $100 gift
certificate at a really good restaurant for reporting something I
didn't like.

Steve

It's the managers fault because you don't like kids???

I would have probably shared the opinion of the manager.




He never said he didn't like kids. I'm sure he loves kids. I'd be mad
too -- trying to eat and having to put up with screaming kids. The
parents should reign in their brats, and the manager should have AT
LEAST asked the parents to settle their kids down for the comfort of
other diners. When I was a kid, I never acted up in public because if I
did I would have my butt whipped. Man, discipline is disappearing.
Isn't it? I attended both Texas and California schools throughout the
1970's/1980's (divorced parents). In Texas, if someone gave the teacher
continual lip/disrespect/talking/disrupting, etc., one of the Vice
Principals would come down and swat their asses out in the hall. Guess
what? It works. I RARELY saw any bad behavior in TX schools. In CA,
where there was no paddling, the bully kids ran the classrooms. I
remember in TX in middle school, a 16 year old bully (he flunked 3
times), was giving the teacher lip. The vice Principal came to fetch
him. The kid, a large fat kid, wouldn't leave, so the Vice
Principal/football coach dragged the kid out by his arms into the
hallway and paddled his ass hard. The kid was crying. He quit acting
up though. paddling equals physical pain and humiliation, something
kids don't want to have done to them twice. Hey, a nice project would
be to make a paddle and engrave "Justice" on it! Of course, drill holes
in it.

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Locutus wrote:
"Steve B" wrote in message
news:ForCg.44$rT5.25@fed1read01...
"Locutus" wrote

It's the managers fault because you don't like kids???

I would have probably shared the opinion of the manager.

Huh? They're running around doing that scream that feels like an ice pick
in your ear, and you think I don't like kids?

I have kids.

I have grandkids.

And we don't let them be a PITA to others, and we sure as hell don't let
them run all over the place in public establishments acting like screaming
heathens.

Steve

If they did, would that be the establishments fault or the parents fault?


Unruly patrons who ruin the experience of other diners should be shown
the door, IMHO.

Dave

"Steve B" said:

For you to prattle on about such things just shows you
must be a Liberal Democrat. These things happen every day.

I fully agree with Mr. Clark, and I am very, very far from being a
"Liberal Democrat". I also agree that "These things happen every day",
but, to belabor the obvious, that doesn't make it right, ethical, or
honorable.

I really cannot believe what I've been reading in this thread. Well,
yes, I can, I just don't want to. Please tell me I'm wrong, but some
of the posts in this thread give me an impression of one who is
willing, even eager and proud, to commit dishonorable, dishonest,
unethical, illegal acts for no reason other than displeasure with a
customer.

The acts that I've seen described amount to nothing less than theft.
Theft of wages from the employer by not performing those duties for
which the employer paid. Theft from the customer by depriving him/her
of goods belonging to that customer. I find such acts to be immoral
and unethical at best; dishonorable at worst.

"Steve B" wrote in message
news:CtrCg.45$rT5.20@fed1read01...

"Leon" wrote

A good and successful salesman or representative has to swallow
his pride on occasion and try to see it from his customers point if view.

I saw a cute cartoon: Man talking to a lady at a complaints desk.

Man says, Lady, if we let you keep the merchandise, refund all your money,
AND shoot the salesman, then would you be happy?


LOL...I actually used that tactic on occasion and it really works well.
Sometimes coming from left field with a comment defuses the situation.
One of my service advisors introduced me to one of his better customers one
day. He called me in my office and asked that I come and meet Ms. So n So.
The 2 of them were actually in on this little meeting together.

Mr. Leon, I would like you to meet a good customer of mine and let you know
that she has been having a problem getting an intermittent problem resolved.
I stood there nodding my head and listening and looking at her as he went on
to say, Mr. Leon, I told Ms. So n So not to worry as her satisfaction was
our goal and that we were going to resolve the problem with her car even if
it TOOK EVERY PENNEY THAT SHE HAD. I almost got whip lash as
I turned my head and stared directly at my service advisor in disbelief.

Ms. So n So was the first to crack up laughing. She was only there to get
an oil change. Whew!

On Tue, 8 Aug 2006 14:10:52 -0500, "James E. Cannon" wrote:

I've decided that this is on-topic for this NG since many of us order large
tools that have to be delivered freight.

When a truck driver drops a pallet in your garage, is he expecting a tip?
How much? What do you think?

It's never a question with the UPS guy since he is already gone before I can
even answer the door, but the freight guy is a different story.

This is why the whole concept of tipping sucks.


I just send the wife out to show him a bit of cleavage.
They usually leave very happy...
You should see the pizza delivery boys when she answers the door in her bathing
suit. They don't even count the money. :-)

"grappletech" wrote in message
...

Snip

I attended both Texas and California schools throughout the
1970's/1980's (divorced parents). In Texas, if someone gave the teacher
continual lip/disrespect/talking/disrupting, etc., one of the Vice
Principals would come down and swat their asses out in the hall. Guess
what? It works. I RARELY saw any bad behavior in TX schools.

I went to Texas schools in the 60's and early 70's. I can attest that the
paddle kept every thing in check. The 3' paddle with holes drilled in it
would literally lift you up of your feet and it contacted your behind side.

My son grafuated from HS here in Houston in 2005 and I can tell you that for
a long time now that the paddle is now a legend.

Very unfortunate.

On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 20:31:28 -0700, Steve B wrote:

I can tell you never ran into a real freight man. They have the power to
send your stuff to Cleveland if they want to. And do all sorts of things
to hold up your business, freight, and heartbeat.

I used to love running into your types. I was a Teamster, and knew 98
ways to make your **** disappear for long periods of time.

Steve

So Steve, did you consider this to be 'doing your job'? The way I see
it, somebody already paid your employer to deliver the freight and your
employer has already agreed to pay you for delivering the freight and then
you stand there and DON'T DELIVER THE FREIGHT.

I presently AM a Teamster and formerly was a UTU guy (Conrail ... when we
lost freight we lost boxcar loads at a time!). It was my job to deliver
the freight -on time and in good condition- ... AND THAT'S WHAT I DID.

For my part, if the driver does much more than simply pull up and
wait while I unload, then he's probably done something extra and should be
slipped a couple extra skins for his effort. But if all he does is sit
while I unload and then retaliates the lack of an (unearned) tip, then
I'll simply specify a different common carrier with my next order. And he
won't get ANY money from my next purchase. Not even his wages.

Times are tough. You want the money? Do the work.

Bill

On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 08:48:32 -0700, Steve B wrote:

You cannot please some customers. That guy that said, "The customer is
always right" was full of it.

Steve

Maybe the customer isn't always right, but he's always the customer. If
the money doesn't leave his pocket it never arrives in mine.