"Steve B" writes:

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message
m...
"Steve B" writes:

"David" wrote in message
om...
James E. Cannon wrote:

It's not that I felt so grateful that I "wanted" to tip (I already paid
$125 for shipping), I just don't want to be seen as a cheapskate and
maybe pay for it later with late/damaged shipments if I do business
with
the same driver again.
Isn't that rather cynical? I mean really--expecting that the SAME
driver
is going to damage upcoming shipments to you purposely and vindictively,
because you didn't pay him "protection"?? Good grief, man, that's not
how
it works! If you go to a restaurant and order a couple of $35+ meals
for
you and the missus and leave a $5 tip, THAT'S considered being a
cheapskate, as anyone paying for that expensive of a meal can certainly
afford a 50% tip.

Dave

Sorry, Dave. That's not how it works. I worked conventions in Las Vegas
for a lot of years. Repeat customers.

You had one yokel this year that stiffed you after going all out for them,
and next year, attitude was different. The companies are limited to a $50
limit on lost/damaged freight. You could run your tines through a box
when
no one was looking, the exhibitor could lose many thousands of dollars in

That's a felony.

exhibits, and the culprit was never found. Or, you put an "empty" sticker
on a full box, and it goes to the boneyard. Cost of retrieval, about two
grand.

Either one of these should get you fired, and by rights, in jail.


I can see you've never been a Teamster union member.


Is that an excuse or an explanation? The behaviour of your
purported teamster is criminal, and should be prosecuted.

If you participated in similar activities, you are also a
criminal, and should be prosecuted.

IIRC, the teamsters have historically been run by criminals
anyway, hardly an organization to hold up to your children
as something to aspire to.

The fact that a Union can excuse criminal behaviour is far
from the origins of the union movement which was to protect
the worker from hazardous working and living conditions.

On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 13:21:52 -0700, Steve B wrote:

"Leon" wrote

A good and successful salesman or representative has to swallow
his pride on occasion and try to see it from his customers point if
view.

I saw a cute cartoon: Man talking to a lady at a complaints desk.

Man says, Lady, if we let you keep the merchandise, refund all your money,
AND shoot the salesman, then would you be happy?

I managed for Dominos Pizza in Detroit and that WAS the guarantee.

If we shanked the pizza and had to make a replacement, you got it AND a
full refund. If the driver balked, you could also keep him ... we
certainly had no further use for him.

On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 12:32:34 -0700, Steve B wrote:


I can see you've never been a Teamster union member.

I can see you've never been the sort of person I would care to associate
with.

My whole plant (until tomorrow ... I'm quitting due to LOUSY union wages)
is Teamster and we bust our buns getting the right product in the right
box and on the right truck (prolly about 20-25 loads a day).

To think that the driver, also a Teamster, would louse that up shows a
remarkable lack of union unity.

Bill

On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 21:35:59 -0000, "W Canaday"
wrote:

On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 13:21:52 -0700, Steve B wrote:

"Leon" wrote

A good and successful salesman or representative has to swallow
his pride on occasion and try to see it from his customers point if
view.

I saw a cute cartoon: Man talking to a lady at a complaints desk.

Man says, Lady, if we let you keep the merchandise, refund all your money,
AND shoot the salesman, then would you be happy?

I managed for Dominos Pizza in Detroit and that WAS the guarantee.

If we shanked the pizza and had to make a replacement, you got it AND a
full refund. If the driver balked, you could also keep him ... we
certainly had no further use for him.

If you stiff a pizza delivery boy just make sure he isn't the same guy
delivering your next pizza....unless you happen to like body fluids as a
topping. :-)

On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 08:57:59 -0700, Steve B wrote:

You know, it's funny how a $20 tip can get a driver NOT to charge a $57
liftgate charge and write: Unloaded by customer's forklift. But hey, that
would be bribery/extortion according to some people who don't understand
simple math.

Steve

Apparently your ethics are for sale. You would cheat your employer out of
$57 for a $20 bribe by lying about the delivery.

I've been reading this thread for about a half hour now and it's apparent
that you 'just don't get it' because you don't see ANYTHING wrong with how
you lived your work life. Well I do and I can promise you that the one
thing you and I will never be is friends. Not in this life and probably
not in any future one either.

Bill

"Steve B" wrote in message
news:iOqCg.36$rT5.6@fed1read01...

For you to prattle on about such things just shows you must be a
Liberal Democrat. These things happen every day.

Ah! The same liberal Democrats that have traditionally supported
union organizations for decades? So lemme get this straight; now you
support conservative republicans? And how does that help your beloved
teamsters?
--
"New Wave" Dave In Houston

Here is a Rant, if you do not want to read it, just go on to the next
message.

When I have bad service from a waitress, I do not have to wait until I
am leaving the restaurant to speak to a manager. I have gone up to the
manager and asked for what I wanted for my table telling him that my
waitress was nowhere to be found, or whatever they were doing. It is
amazing how fast the service improves.

And as for a manager who is indifferent, a letter to the owner of the
restaurant, or to the President of the chain that owns the restaurant,
usually results in at least an attitude correction of the manager, or a
replacement of the manager. It really is amazing the things that
happens when the complaint works its way down instead of up.

My letters have resulted in more than one manager change, and that
includes all kinds of businesses, not just in restaurants. Just give the
very top officers of a company documentation of how a manager is
mistreating the customers, or give them just a hint of what some of
these yo-yos are suggesting that they can, and will, do if they cannot
extort protection money out of someone, and they will be history, gone
and buried.

Now, as for giving tips for service. When I make a contract, I see to
it that all charges for what services that I will receive is spelled out
in writing. Non of this he said, they said stuff. If my contract calls
for them to set my shipment on the ground, then that is what they had
better do, and no extra hidden charge. I don't care if the delivery
person has to pick up a 500 lb. package and jump down to the street
level without damaging it, that is their problem how they get it down to
the street level to fulfill the contract. But when that delivery person
goes beyond what the contract calls for, they I do believe in offering
them a tip. Some will take it, some won't.

A tip or gratuity is for service over and above what has been contracted
for. In a restaurant, for the price on the menu, it is a normal
contract between the customer and the management that for a fixed price
there will be the table set accordingly, the food and drinks delivered
to the table. Now if that is all that the waitress does then why should
I pay her for exactly what the restaurant is paying her. After all that
is what she agreed to work for. Just as what you, or I, agree to work
for on any job, If we do not like the pay, then leave for a better
paying job. I do not expect tips when I fix your car, and I do not
expect tips when I fix your airplane, and I do not expect tips when I
cut your grass that you contracted with me to do. I set my price. Period.

Do I give tips? Absolutely I have and will, when I receive good service
over and above what is contracted for. I have given as much as a 100%
tip on one occasion, for the waitress was worth every cent. And another
who on her asking what else she could do for us, I said Jokingly for her
to give me the money to pay for the meal, upon which she dug into her
tip pocket and put a handful of money on my table then walked away. You
can be sure that she not only got back every penny but also more than
double what she laid on the table.

If you want a tip from me, you are going to have to do more than just
what the contract says. I do not give just because you expect it. My
money is hard to come by, maybe even harder to come by than that they
have earned. I grew up in an era when people took pride in whatever
work that they did. While there are still some of you out there who
still has that work ethic, it is becoming as rare as hen's teeth. I see
too many today who believes that everyone should pay them for doing
nothing. I know that you see they too.

When I was growing up, if I mis behaved in public, I got a size 10 hand
on my size 4 bottom in a big hurry, and it did not have to be applied
very often. Today obnoxious children in a restaurant is common. so
common that when I see parents in a restaurant who have well behaved
children, I always go up to them and thank them for their well behaved
children.

So much for the RANT. If you feel that you should double everyones pay,
then throw some my way, I would appreciate a little help to go along
with my SS.

Zap

Steve B wrote:
"grappletech" wrote

I left her a penny tip and called the

manager about her. Buttholes don't deserve to be rewarded with tips.


Whenever I get bad service, bad food, or just bad anything, I NEVER EVER
leave without a face to face with the manager to let them know. In many
cases, it is not the restaurant's doing, and they appreciate the heads up.

We had two OBNOXIOUS children in a booth near us at a Mexican restaurant one
night. Screaming and running around. I have been going to this restaurant
chain for decades. When I complained to the manager, she said, "This IS a
family restaurant." I did the meanest nastiest thing I could. I told her
that she would get no more of my business, that I would bring no more family
or guests to the restaurant, and would not suggest it when asked for a good
Mexican restaurant.

Her attitude was, whatever.

Usually they appreciate being told about a crappy server or cook. AND I
will also go to the trouble of turning in a good report on an exceptionally
good performance.

But I always do it face to face. One time I got a $100 gift certificate at
a really good restaurant for reporting something I didn't like.

Steve

James E. Cannon wrote:

I've decided that this is on-topic for this NG since many of us order large
tools that have to be delivered freight.

When a truck driver drops a pallet in your garage, is he expecting a tip?
How much? What do you think?

It's never a question with the UPS guy since he is already gone before I can
even answer the door, but the freight guy is a different story.

This is why the whole concept of tipping sucks.



It depends on what you paid for. For most freight deliveries the driver
is responsible for delivering the item only to the back of the truck.
It is the receiver's responsibility from there.

Unless the delivery contract stated that the drive was responsible to
deliver the item to a specific location I would tip the driver if he
helped off load the item and put it in my garage.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

(Remove -SPAM- to send email)

Leon wrote:


"grappletech" wrote in message
...

Snip

I attended both Texas and California schools throughout the
1970's/1980's (divorced parents). In Texas, if someone gave the teacher
continual lip/disrespect/talking/disrupting, etc., one of the Vice
Principals would come down and swat their asses out in the hall. Guess
what? It works. I RARELY saw any bad behavior in TX schools.

I went to Texas schools in the 60's and early 70's. I can attest that the
paddle kept every thing in check. The 3' paddle with holes drilled in it
would literally lift you up of your feet and it contacted your behind
side.

My son grafuated from HS here in Houston in 2005 and I can tell you that
for a long time now that the paddle is now a legend.

Very unfortunate.

Constitutes "child abuse" in some jurisdictions.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Leon wrote:


"grappletech" wrote in message
...

Snip

I attended both Texas and California schools throughout the
1970's/1980's (divorced parents). In Texas, if someone gave the teacher
continual lip/disrespect/talking/disrupting, etc., one of the Vice
Principals would come down and swat their asses out in the hall. Guess
what? It works. I RARELY saw any bad behavior in TX schools.

I went to Texas schools in the 60's and early 70's. I can attest that the
paddle kept every thing in check. The 3' paddle with holes drilled in it
would literally lift you up of your feet and it contacted your behind
side.

My son grafuated from HS here in Houston in 2005 and I can tell you that
for a long time now that the paddle is now a legend.

Very unfortunate.

Let my fingers get away from me on the previous reply.

Constitutes "child abuse" in some jurisdictions. School officials can lose
their jobs over it.

On the other hand, saw a documentary about Jackie Chan, the most famous
actor in Asia (not to mention being a first class producer, director, stunt
man, and fight choreographer), who was paddled regularly (and in Hong Kong
apparently it's a pants down paddling with something that looks like a
cricket bat) and attributes much of his success later in life to those
paddlings.

A problem with contemporary American society is that we confuse "hurt" and
"harm" and "harming" a child is anathema so so is "hurting" one even if
doing so will help avoid him harming himself or others later.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Steve B wrote:


"grappletech" wrote

I left her a penny tip and called the
manager about her. Buttholes don't deserve to be rewarded with tips.

Whenever I get bad service, bad food, or just bad anything, I NEVER EVER
leave without a face to face with the manager to let them know. In many
cases, it is not the restaurant's doing, and they appreciate the heads up.

We had two OBNOXIOUS children in a booth near us at a Mexican restaurant
one
night. Screaming and running around. I have been going to this
restaurant
chain for decades. When I complained to the manager, she said, "This IS a
family restaurant." I did the meanest nastiest thing I could. I told her
that she would get no more of my business, that I would bring no more
family or guests to the restaurant, and would not suggest it when asked
for a good Mexican restaurant.

Her attitude was, whatever.

You mean that you didn't arrange for your teamster buddies to lose their
next order of tacos?

As for her attitude, I suspect based on the general attitude that you have
expressed here that what she was thinking and didn't say was "Thank God I'm
not going to have to put up with _this_ jerk anymore".

Usually they appreciate being told about a crappy server or cook. AND I
will also go to the trouble of turning in a good report on an
exceptionally good performance.

But I always do it face to face. One time I got a $100 gift certificate
at a really good restaurant for reporting something I didn't like.

Steve

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Steve B wrote:


"Leon" wrote

A good and successful salesman or representative has to swallow
his pride on occasion and try to see it from his customers point if view.

I saw a cute cartoon: Man talking to a lady at a complaints desk.

Man says, Lady, if we let you keep the merchandise, refund all your money,
AND shoot the salesman, then would you be happy?

Which reminds me of the MCI call I got once. I told the guy "Look, if you
people will issue a public apology to AT&T and on national televison draw
and quarter that obnoxious woman in your ads who says "Are you out there
AT&T" then, and only then, I might _think_ about changing to MCI." The
idiot went on with his sales pitch at which point I hung up on him.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Leon wrote:


"Tim Douglass" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 06:51:22 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

Well, in all the restaurants I ever cooked in neither I nor any other
person in the kitchen ever saw a penny of the tips. The waiters in one
place used to moan about only making $20-$30 an hour in tips (back in
the 70's!) while as the lead line cook I only made about $6.

I have a nephew that was working to become a Su Chef and had been in the
business since the early 90's until recently. When I asked him several
years ago about tips for the cooking staff he simply laughed. This is in
Houston.

Depends on managerial policy. Some places the waiter keeps the tip, others
they are pooled and divvied with percentages going to staff other than the
cook. Places that have a maitre'd and a sommelier are more likely to work
this way than are those in which there is one server to a customer.

I always assume that they are divvied if it makes a difference and have been
known to give written instructions as to who gets what. If you're not sure
then ask.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

W Canaday wrote:

On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 13:21:52 -0700, Steve B wrote:

"Leon" wrote

A good and successful salesman or representative has to swallow
his pride on occasion and try to see it from his customers point if
view.

I saw a cute cartoon: Man talking to a lady at a complaints desk.

Man says, Lady, if we let you keep the merchandise, refund all your
money, AND shoot the salesman, then would you be happy?

I managed for Dominos Pizza in Detroit and that WAS the guarantee.

If we shanked the pizza

??? Not heard that expression. I've heard "shank" as in "stab" and "shank"
as in "ride shank's mare" meaning "walk" but I'm having difficulty
associating either with a pizza.

and had to make a replacement, you got it AND a
full refund. If the driver balked, you could also keep him ... we
certainly had no further use for him.

A few of the drivers I've seen around here I wouldn't mind keeping . . .
Manager at the local Dominos has remarkable taste in women.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"Pete Walker" wrote

If you stiff a pizza delivery boy just make sure he isn't the same guy
delivering your next pizza....unless you happen to like body fluids as a
topping. :-)


Some sound advice I got early in life from an old timer:

Never mess with the barber or the cook.

Steve

"Locutus" wrote in message
...

"Steve B" wrote in message
news:ForCg.44$rT5.25@fed1read01...

"Locutus" wrote

It's the managers fault because you don't like kids???

I would have probably shared the opinion of the manager.


Huh? They're running around doing that scream that feels like an ice
pick in your ear, and you think I don't like kids?

I have kids.

I have grandkids.

And we don't let them be a PITA to others, and we sure as hell don't let
them run all over the place in public establishments acting like
screaming heathens.

Steve

If they did, would that be the establishments fault or the parents fault?


Both. The parents for allowing it, and the restaurant for allowing it.

I like California for the following reason, although it is the only one that
comes to mind:

In restaurants the signs read something like this:

If your children are unruly, we will ask you to leave. We value the
patronage of the highest numbers of customers.

I saw that BTW, in a restaurant on I10 in Victorville.

Steve

"David" wrote

Unruly patrons who ruin the experience of other diners should be shown the
door, IMHO.

Dave

The night the OBNOXIOUS children ruined our dinner, I asked the manager,
"What would happen if I was unruly and ran around screaming?"

She said, "I would call the police."

What is the difference?

Steve

"Leon" wrote in message
m...

"Steve B" wrote in message
news:UmrCg.43$rT5.28@fed1read01...

The parents were mirror images of the children.


All the more reason to explain proper public behavior to the parents.

I'm sorry. I have never had a talent for communicating with idiots. They
don't understand me, and I can't lower myself to their level no matter what
the purpose.

Steve

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"grappletech" wrote in message
...

Snip

I attended both Texas and California schools throughout the
1970's/1980's (divorced parents). In Texas, if someone gave the teacher
continual lip/disrespect/talking/disrupting, etc., one of the Vice
Principals would come down and swat their asses out in the hall. Guess
what? It works. I RARELY saw any bad behavior in TX schools.

I went to Texas schools in the 60's and early 70's. I can attest that the
paddle kept every thing in check. The 3' paddle with holes drilled in it
would literally lift you up of your feet and it contacted your behind
side.

My son grafuated from HS here in Houston in 2005 and I can tell you that
for a long time now that the paddle is now a legend.

Very unfortunate.


You have seen NOTHING in the way of paddling unless you have visited foreign
countries where caning is allowed.

It is administered with a wet piece of cane about 1/4" in diameter and about
five feet long. If the person administering the caning is thought to hold
back, he gets twice the number of lashes. They swing for the cheap seats,
believe me.

They do it on bare hindsides and backs. The backs of the thighs. People
being whipped scream and dance from foot to foot. They void all over
themselves. Their screams are every bit as piercing as any two year old
girl's.

And most don't repeat the experiences.

Too bad it is not used in the US.

Steve

"Tom Veatch" . wrote in message
...
"Steve B" said:

For you to prattle on about such things just shows you
must be a Liberal Democrat. These things happen every day.

I fully agree with Mr. Clark, and I am very, very far from being a
"Liberal Democrat". I also agree that "These things happen every day",
but, to belabor the obvious, that doesn't make it right, ethical, or
honorable.

I really cannot believe what I've been reading in this thread. Well,
yes, I can, I just don't want to. Please tell me I'm wrong, but some
of the posts in this thread give me an impression of one who is
willing, even eager and proud, to commit dishonorable, dishonest,
unethical, illegal acts for no reason other than displeasure with a
customer.

The acts that I've seen described amount to nothing less than theft.
Theft of wages from the employer by not performing those duties for
which the employer paid. Theft from the customer by depriving him/her
of goods belonging to that customer. I find such acts to be immoral
and unethical at best; dishonorable at worst.

Welcome to reality, Mr. Veatch.

"W Canaday" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 20:31:28 -0700, Steve B wrote:

I can tell you never ran into a real freight man. They have the power to
send your stuff to Cleveland if they want to. And do all sorts of things
to hold up your business, freight, and heartbeat.

I used to love running into your types. I was a Teamster, and knew 98
ways to make your **** disappear for long periods of time.

Steve

So Steve, did you consider this to be 'doing your job'? The way I see
it, somebody already paid your employer to deliver the freight and your
employer has already agreed to pay you for delivering the freight and then
you stand there and DON'T DELIVER THE FREIGHT.

Bill

I agree. I was referring to deadbeats and stiffs that try to take advantage
of freight handlers.

Steve

"W Canaday" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 08:48:32 -0700, Steve B wrote:

You cannot please some customers. That guy that said, "The customer is
always right" was full of it.

Steve

Maybe the customer isn't always right, but he's always the customer. If
the money doesn't leave his pocket it never arrives in mine.

I know some girls who have that same attitude. And they will do whatever it
takes to make that happen. I won't.

Steve

"no(SPAM)vasys" wrote in message
...
James E. Cannon wrote:

I've decided that this is on-topic for this NG since many of us order
large tools that have to be delivered freight.

When a truck driver drops a pallet in your garage, is he expecting a tip?
How much? What do you think?

It's never a question with the UPS guy since he is already gone before I
can even answer the door, but the freight guy is a different story.

This is why the whole concept of tipping sucks.

It depends on what you paid for. For most freight deliveries the driver
is responsible for delivering the item only to the back of the truck. It
is the receiver's responsibility from there.

Unless the delivery contract stated that the drive was responsible to
deliver the item to a specific location I would tip the driver if he
helped off load the item and put it in my garage.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

(Remove -SPAM- to send email)

OMIGAWD. A lucid reasonable human being!

J. Clarke wrote:
W Canaday wrote:
I managed for Dominos Pizza in Detroit and that WAS the guarantee.

If we shanked the pizza


??? Not heard that expression. I've heard "shank" as in "stab" and "shank"
as in "ride shank's mare" meaning "walk" but I'm having difficulty
associating either with a pizza.

Think "golf".

"The shank is the portion or part of an iron where the club face and
hosel meet. When a golfer hits the ball in that area of the club head it
produces a unwanted ball reaction which is called and widely accepted as
a "shank."

http://www.topendsports.com/sport/golf/shank.htm

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

(Remove -SPAM- to send email)

"Leon" wrote in message
m...

"John Flatley" wrote in message
...
I heard and remembered an explanation from a boss years
ago: "The customer may not always be right, but, he is
always the customer."


Smart guy.

Not really. Some customers are not profitable and you are better off without
them. Some can be made profitable, some, a very few, are just assholes
that cannot be tamed and you just get rid of them.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
t...


Smart guy.

Not really. Some customers are not profitable and you are better off
without them. Some can be made profitable, some, a very few, are just
assholes that cannot be tamed and you just get rid of them.


Yeah I think so. While you may not want to do business with them if you
treat them like others have suggested, they can do a lot of harm to your
business and steer potential customers away. A bad customer that is not
handled properly can very quickly turn into a nightmare even if you never
see him again.
Take the high road and treat all of them, good or bad, with the same respect
that you would expect.

"Steve B" wrote in message
news:%3vCg.61$rT5.17@fed1read01...

"Leon" wrote in message
m...

"Steve B" wrote in message
news:UmrCg.43$rT5.28@fed1read01...

The parents were mirror images of the children.


All the more reason to explain proper public behavior to the parents.

I'm sorry. I have never had a talent for communicating with idiots. They
don't understand me, and I can't lower myself to their level no matter
what the purpose.

Steve


It does take balls.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:

Let my fingers get away from me on the previous reply.

Constitutes "child abuse" in some jurisdictions. School officials can
lose
their jobs over it.

There are those these days with moral conflicts about paddling their
children or letting some one else take charge in the parents absence. As a
result, see see higher crime rates. Some one needs to help teach our
children right from wrong and it is a 24 hour a day job. School officials
can indeed loose their jobs and that too is a damn shame. Discipline with a
witnesses should be allowed.
I would much rather see our children grow up to have a respect for the law
and to be good citizens.
IMHO child abuse is letting a child grow up with no respect for right and
wrong.

"Leon" wrote in message
m...

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:

Let my fingers get away from me on the previous reply.

Constitutes "child abuse" in some jurisdictions. School officials can
lose
their jobs over it.

There are those these days with moral conflicts about paddling their
children or letting some one else take charge in the parents absence. As
a result, see see higher crime rates. Some one needs to help teach our
children right from wrong and it is a 24 hour a day job.

Crime rates have been steadily declining over the past 20 years....

"Locutus" wrote in message
...

"Leon" wrote in message
m...

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:

Let my fingers get away from me on the previous reply.

Constitutes "child abuse" in some jurisdictions. School officials can
lose
their jobs over it.

There are those these days with moral conflicts about paddling their
children or letting some one else take charge in the parents absence. As
a result, see see higher crime rates. Some one needs to help teach our
children right from wrong and it is a 24 hour a day job.

Crime rates have been steadily declining over the past 20 years....

I do not believe that for one moment. Perhaps in certain areas but as a
whole certainly up an especially in New Orleans and Houston.

Steve B wrote:


"David" wrote

Unruly patrons who ruin the experience of other diners should be shown
the door, IMHO.

Dave

The night the OBNOXIOUS children ruined our dinner, I asked the manager,
"What would happen if I was unruly and ran around screaming?"

She said, "I would call the police."

What is the difference?

A child acting like a child is normal. An adult acting like a child has
something wrong with him at best.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Leon wrote:


"Locutus" wrote in message
...

"Leon" wrote in message
m...

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:

Let my fingers get away from me on the previous reply.

Constitutes "child abuse" in some jurisdictions. School officials can
lose
their jobs over it.

There are those these days with moral conflicts about paddling their
children or letting some one else take charge in the parents absence.
As
a result, see see higher crime rates. Some one needs to help teach our
children right from wrong and it is a 24 hour a day job.

Crime rates have been steadily declining over the past 20 years....

I do not believe that for one moment. Perhaps in certain areas but as a
whole certainly up an especially in New Orleans and Houston.

New Orleans and Houston are not "a whole". Violent crime in the United
States has declined about 35 percent since 1991.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Steve B wrote:


"Leon" wrote in message
...

"grappletech" wrote in message
...

Snip

I attended both Texas and California schools throughout the
1970's/1980's (divorced parents). In Texas, if someone gave the teacher
continual lip/disrespect/talking/disrupting, etc., one of the Vice
Principals would come down and swat their asses out in the hall. Guess
what? It works. I RARELY saw any bad behavior in TX schools.

I went to Texas schools in the 60's and early 70's. I can attest that
the
paddle kept every thing in check. The 3' paddle with holes drilled in it
would literally lift you up of your feet and it contacted your behind
side.

My son grafuated from HS here in Houston in 2005 and I can tell you that
for a long time now that the paddle is now a legend.

Very unfortunate.


You have seen NOTHING in the way of paddling unless you have visited
foreign countries where caning is allowed.

It is administered with a wet piece of cane about 1/4" in diameter and
about
five feet long. If the person administering the caning is thought to hold
back, he gets twice the number of lashes. They swing for the cheap seats,
believe me.

They do it on bare hindsides and backs. The backs of the thighs. People
being whipped scream and dance from foot to foot. They void all over
themselves. Their screams are every bit as piercing as any two year old
girl's.

And most don't repeat the experiences.

Too bad it is not used in the US.

Hurts, but if the cane is swung too vigorously it can do serious injury--if
the caner gets too vigorous then the doctor stops the show. And it's not
really all that much worse than a good paddling with a wooden paddle.

Steve

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"Leon" wrote in message
m...

"Steve B" wrote in message
news:%3vCg.61$rT5.17@fed1read01...

"Leon" wrote in message
m...

"Steve B" wrote in message
news:UmrCg.43$rT5.28@fed1read01...

The parents were mirror images of the children.


All the more reason to explain proper public behavior to the parents.

I'm sorry. I have never had a talent for communicating with idiots.
They don't understand me, and I can't lower myself to their level no
matter what the purpose.

Steve


It does take balls.


Yes, and in today's society makes as much sense as getting out of your car
to correct that driver that just cut you off.

Steve

"Locutus" wrote

Crime rates have been steadily declining over the past 20 years....

Can you provide cites? And what country is that?

Steve

"Locutus" wrote in message
. As a result, see see higher crime rates. Some one needs to help teach
our children right from wrong and it is a 24 hour a day job.

Crime rates have been steadily declining over the past 20 years....


Sure, we've redefined crimes. Society now accepts bad behavior

"Leon" wrote in message
news

"Locutus" wrote in message
...

"Leon" wrote in message
m...

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:

Let my fingers get away from me on the previous reply.

Constitutes "child abuse" in some jurisdictions. School officials can
lose
their jobs over it.

There are those these days with moral conflicts about paddling their
children or letting some one else take charge in the parents absence.
As a result, see see higher crime rates. Some one needs to help teach
our children right from wrong and it is a 24 hour a day job.

Crime rates have been steadily declining over the past 20 years....

I do not believe that for one moment. Perhaps in certain areas but as a
whole certainly up an especially in New Orleans and Houston.

The US as a whole.

http://usinfo.state.gov/eur/Archive/...29-519328.html

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news:LuICg.5099$Pp1.2679@trndny04...

"Locutus" wrote in message
. As a result, see see higher crime rates. Some one needs to help
teach our children right from wrong and it is a 24 hour a day job.

Crime rates have been steadily declining over the past 20 years....


Sure, we've redefined crimes. Society now accepts bad behavior

c'mon.. that is not true at all.

"Steve B" wrote in message
news:%hICg.92$rT5.20@fed1read01...

Yes, and in today's society makes as much sense as getting out of your car
to correct that driver that just cut you off.


I have done that too although my wife was not impressed. I did wait until
the SOB cut me off a second time on the same street. He rolled his window
up quickly.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:

New Orleans and Houston are not "a whole". Violent crime in the United
States has declined about 35 percent since 1991.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm.


Well I stand corrected then. Where it is down I suspect the kids were
properly disciplined.