On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 21:19:49 +0530, mike
wrote:

On 27-03-2021 05:00 Ed Pawlowski wrote:

The links are a bit contradictory.

I know exactly what the links said.
It's someone else who said the links didn't say what I said they said.

I'm not a believer in bull**** as you can probably tell by now.

First link says:
keep things simple by changing your oil filter every time

Nothing wrong with replacing your oil & filter every day of the week.
That's why I said it's OK whatever schedule others used.

Alls I said was the manufacturers often recommend every other interval.
Those who refuted that fact didn't produce a single reference.

I produced five.
Alls I'm saying is you can replace your filter on any schedule you like.

But don't claim manufacturers don't recommend every other oil change.
Everyone who claimed that so far has pulled it out of their asses.

That's all I'm saying. You do what you want. I do what I want.
I follow what the manufacturer recommends.
(1) I choose good oil (lasts longer than the manufacturers recommendation)
(2) I choose good filters (they last longer than the oil change interval)

Second link says:
Many manufacturers say to change the oil filter every other oil change.

Of course it says that.
It says what I said it said even though some dufus said it didn't say that.

Alls people are doing is pulling out recommendations from their own ass.
Nobody but me has supplied any references from manufacturers & manuals.

You do what you want to do.
I will continue to follow the manufacturers recommendation.
And I will continue to choose the best oil and oil filters I can figure out.

The only thing new to me is the huge number of synthetic oil specs.
I don't know how to choose a good synthetic oil yet.

There are too many specs to try to figure out at this point.
ACEA A1/B1, A5/B5, A3/B4 A5/B5-10, A5/B5-12
API SN, SN Plus, SN-RC, SM, SL, SP
BMW LL-01, LL-04
Chrysler MS 6395
FIAT 9.55535-H2, FIAT 9.55535-M2, FIAT 9.55535-N2
Ford WSS-M2C153-H, WSS-M2C929-A, WSS-M2C930-A, WSS-M2C945-A, WSS-M2C946-A, WSS-M2C947-A
GM-Opel LL B-025
GM 4718M, 6094M, LL-A-025, dexos1 Gen 2, Gen 3
Honda HTO-06
ILSAC GF-5, GF-4, GF-3
MB-Approval 229.5
Porsche A40
Renault RN0700, RN0710
VW 502 00 - 505 00

many of them the same people who would never go past 3,000 miles
would never dream of doing an oil change without also changing the filter.

Like I said many times before you do what you want to do with your oil.

But don't tell me my references don't say what I knows they say.
I didn't post the references without reading them first.

You alls pulled out everything you said from your own asses.

Why pass brand-new, clean oil through

That's OK.
But what you pulled out of your asses is not what my manuals say.

I just follow my manual that says every change.
If yours differs, fine, follow it.

Just don't tell me my service manual don't say what I knows it says.
Everything most of you said you pulled out of your asses.

I'm not a believer in bull**** as you can probably tell by now.

Yet I'm new to buying synthetic at ~$2.50/qt so alls I want to know now
is how to tell the difference for sure between any two synthetics.

Does anyone here know how to tell one synthetic from another?
Mabee by the label and spec???
You want the oil specified by your manufacturer. Read it. If you oil
says "meets or excedes specification X" and "X" is your spec, you are
good.

On 28/3/21 11:13 am, mike wrote:
On 27-03-2021 21:14 Scott Dorsey wrote:

Yes, that's why you test it.

Of course.
Under the logic of most people here they should replace the oil daily.
That's because it breaks down daily.

Oil in the engine is undergoing a continuous breakdown process.
Actually, if the truth be known, it is the additives in the oil which
are breaking down. So, when dealing with oil change intervals, two
factors need to be considered; additive depletion and oil contamination.
These are like the proverbial piece of string - there is no hard and
fast rule on when additives are sufficiently depleted or the oil
sufficiently contaminated to warrant an oil change. Ditto for the oil
filter.

When I was an apprentice, and later, a rule of thumb, backed by the
vehicle owner manuals, was an oil change every 5,000 km (3,000 mi) with
a filter change every 10,000 km (6,000 mi). This was the norm for the
average 6 cylinder vehicles (GM, Ford, Chrysler) of the day, 4 cylinder
vehicles had more frequent oil changes.

What has happened since then? Oils (and their additives) have improved
out of sight. Also, engine ventilation systems (PCV) have improved
vastly. This has extended the oil change intervals. My car, a Toyota,
has the oil *and* filter change interval *recommended* by the
manufacturer at 10,000 km (6,000 mi). So, the oil change interval has
been doubled but the oil filter change interval seems to have remained
static.

What seems to have been forgotten here is that the recommended oil
change interval will depend on the use made of the vehicle. If you do a
lot of short runs where the engine never warms up sufficiently, you will
experience greater wear factors and increased oil contamination
requiring shorter than recommended oil change interval. Will that impact
the filter change interval? Maybe. It really depends on the filter
capacity - the point at which the filter will block up and commence
bypass. A large filter of, say, 1 litre (1 quart) capacity might not
need to be changed more frequently. On the other hand, a small filter
with half or a quarter of the capacity might need to have a more
frequent change interval.

My Toyota, at 5 years of age and with over 100,000 km clocked up, has
servicing at factory recommended intervals. My wife's car, on the other
hand, has only done 40,000 km in the same time interval. It gets its
servicing, including oil and filter changes, done by *time*. In other
words, it gets an oil change and filter every 6 months *regardless* of
what's on the odometer.


The filter too.
Every day you replace the oil & filter and they won't break down too much.

But that's not the way the world works.
Instead you follow whatever specs your manufacturer recommends you follow.

That's why specifications matter. That's why the specs that matter are
usually printed on the oil container.

Manufacturer's specs are a *guide* only. Servicing intervals are
dictated by many variables - there is no hard and fast service interval.

It's not a matter of price or convenience which most others claimed it was.
It's a matter of knowledge and understanding of meaningful specifications.

Alls these other people know are dollar bills.
They make all their decisions based only on money.

That's fine.
It works for them.

But I like to make my decisions based on an understanding of the product.
And specs are part of that understanding of the product (for synthetic
oil).

For most laypeople, the specs on, say, the oil, are totally meaningless.
I don't get anal about oil specs. If the oil I buy meets the *minimum*
spec recommended by the car manufacturer, then that's what I go with. No
point in going with a more expensive or more highly speced oil if your
engine cannot benefit from the increased capability.

I am wide open about not knowing how to compare two different synthetics.
At least not yet.

I don't see anyone else here who knows anything about synthetic oil though.

Everything almost everyone else said they pulled out of their own assholes.
Especially the ones who claimed it was all about money and not about specs.

They can't understand what the product is as they only understand money.
Everyone understands money (even me) so it's easy (for them) to decide.

But I like to make my decisions based on meaningfully relevent
specifications which I openly admit I don't know what they are just yet.

I make my decisions based on the car manufacturer's requirements. I
figure they would have a clue about what works in engines they manufacture.

But neither does anyone else (at least not those who have responded).
So I guess I'm on my own.

It's been forty years since I took tribo class,
but at the time there was a standard measurement with a rotating drum
inside
a stationary drum that creates high shear on the test sample.Â* You
measure
viscosity regularly and plot it against time.

Isn't all that supposed to be encompassed meaningfully within the oil spec?

Why do you get so anal about oil specs? Pick an oil that matches your
vehicle manufacturer's minimum spec and you're good to go.

Clean linear paraffin oils did well on the test, oils with a lot of
crosslinking or rings did poorly.

You'd think a "synthetic oil" base would be pure linear paraffin
chains with a
very narrow range of molecular weights and you might be right or you
might
be terribly wrong, depending.Â* Also, of course, the VI breaks down,
not just
the base oil.

I tried calling both Chevron & Warren Distribution but I'll have to wait
till Monday to get their technical people on the line.

Sometimes they tell us a lot and sometimes they just spit out the
advertising so it's a crap shoot whether or not that call will bear fruit.

I think the best test so far of the Kirkland synthetic oil was this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9il_piyuT8

And I think the best single description of the (euro) specs is this one.
https://addinol.de/en/products/lubri...pecifications/


If you have something better by all means please let me and all know.


--

Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 21:19:52 +0530, mike
wrote:

On 27-03-2021 12:35 Scott Dorsey wrote:

Mostly it gets better.

I agree. The API rating that I use most don't get worse.
The API quality rating started with SA/SB/SC and now it's SP (afaict).

I will say that I don't have a good way to compare all the standards though.
ACEA A1/B1, A5/B5, A3/B4 A5/B5-10, A5/B5-12
API SN, SN Plus, SN-RC, SM, SL, SP
BMW LL-01, LL-04
Chrysler MS 6395
FIAT 9.55535-H2, FIAT 9.55535-M2, FIAT 9.55535-N2
Ford WSS-M2C153-H, WSS-M2C929-A, WSS-M2C930-A, WSS-M2C945-A, WSS-M2C946-A, WSS-M2C947-A
GM-Opel LL B-025
GM 4718M, 6094M, LL-A-025, dexos1 Gen 2, Gen 3
Honda HTO-06
ILSAC GF-5, GF-4, GF-3
MB-Approval 229.5
Porsche A40
Renault RN0700, RN0710
VW 502 00 - 505 00

Do you?

But I notice that you completely removed all of my
points about ZDDP.

Do you own a diesel?

The base oil gets better, but the additive package changes in ways that
may or may not be an improvement depending on your requirements.

Does your gasoline engine vehicle have a modern cat?
Does your state do periodic smog inspections on that vehicle with a cat?
Several cars I service have flat tappet engines that require ZDDP.
Several of them were old enough to vote before the first catalytic
converter saw the light of day.
Hundreds of thousands of cars with catalytic converters survived just
fine with ZDDPin the oil - but it wasn't 0w20 oil, and unless the
engine was wornout virtually no oil (oe ZDDP) got through to the cat.
Buy the oil that meets the specification in the fine manual provided
with your car.

If your car says change the oil every second time, fine - do it if
you like.

Just cut the BS trying to prove to everyone you are a mensa level
genius when you can't find non-synthetic oil -.

You are an IDIOT - not a GENIUS.

On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 21:36:58 +0530, mike
wrote:

On 27-03-2021 09:06 Jim Joyce wrote:

Looks like I missed all the fun. I bought a '84 Toyota 4x4, new in '83, and
have driven Toyotas ever since. So far none have died on me, except one
that went up in flames after birds built a nest under the hood and I didn't
notice until it was too late.

To your point I was a Detroit owner until I bought my first Japanese sedan.
Had a few German sedans in between but Japanese models never broke on me.
As I age I don't have time for Detroit garbage nor even German complexity.

What I need now that I'm shifting from conventional to synthetic is a good
way to tell the quality of any two oils from just the packages in my hands.

As you can tell by now I don't get my facts out of my ass so I'm willingly
admitting openly that I don't yet know how to compare any two synthetics.

Do you?
Does anyone?

How?
If it is better than you need, who really gives a hoot how much
better it is than you need??????? On your fancy Datsun virtually ANY
full synthetic - or even synthetic blend - will most likely excede the
requirements.

On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 21:55:44 +0530, mike
wrote:

On 27-03-2021 06:07 Clare Snyder wrote:

OK, so Datsun (Nissan) and possibly Renault and MitsoShiity MIGHT
have that recommendation on SOME of their cars (although I suspect it
is Infinity specific - and POSSIBLY even model specific )

This is my last post to you "Clare" since you don't know nothin about cars.

Gee that's funny - I spent a HUGE part of my life as a mechanic

You have a girls name so I can't know if you pulled everything you said out
of your asshole or pussy but I quoted five references & you quoted none.

Ha Ha Ha. Ask anyone else on the list.
Maybee I should use my second name, or my full name instead of the
short form for my name.

You're so emotional that I suspect you're a girl and you have never seen
what is inside a factory manual because two out of three I grabbed yesterday
say exactly what you say they don't say.

You called me a "turd" simply for saying what the shop manuals said.
You're emotional. Too emotional.

I'm done with people like you who pull everything out of their pussies.
Like I said people can change their oil & filter on any cycle they want.

But most of you claim it's all about money and it's not.
Others claimed it's all about convenience but it's not.
You claimed most manufacturers don't recommend intervals & you're wrong.

Do any of you know anything about cars?
If you do answer me this which I admit openly that I do not know how yet.

How can I best compare two synthetic oils from just the jug in my hand?
(If you tell me the only way to tell is by price then you know nothin.)
You are now plunked - along with your idiotic thread.

"Xeno" wrote in message
...
On 28/3/21 11:13 am, mike wrote:
On 27-03-2021 21:14 Scott Dorsey wrote:

Yes, that's why you test it.

Of course.
Under the logic of most people here they should replace the oil daily.
That's because it breaks down daily.

Oil in the engine is undergoing a continuous breakdown process. Actually,
if the truth be known, it is the additives in the oil which are breaking
down. So, when dealing with oil change intervals, two factors need to be
considered; additive depletion and oil contamination. These are like the
proverbial piece of string - there is no hard and fast rule on when
additives are sufficiently depleted or the oil sufficiently contaminated
to warrant an oil change. Ditto for the oil filter.

When I was an apprentice, and later, a rule of thumb, backed by the
vehicle owner manuals, was an oil change every 5,000 km (3,000 mi) with a
filter change every 10,000 km (6,000 mi). This was the norm for the
average 6 cylinder vehicles (GM, Ford, Chrysler) of the day, 4 cylinder
vehicles had more frequent oil changes.

What has happened since then? Oils (and their additives) have improved out
of sight. Also, engine ventilation systems (PCV) have improved vastly.
This has extended the oil change intervals. My car, a Toyota, has the oil
*and* filter change interval *recommended* by the manufacturer at 10,000
km (6,000 mi). So, the oil change interval has been doubled but the oil
filter change interval seems to have remained static.

What seems to have been forgotten here is that the recommended oil change
interval will depend on the use made of the vehicle. If you do a lot of
short runs where the engine never warms up sufficiently, you will
experience greater wear factors and increased oil contamination requiring
shorter than recommended oil change interval. Will that impact the filter
change interval? Maybe. It really depends on the filter capacity - the
point at which the filter will block up and commence bypass. A large
filter of, say, 1 litre (1 quart) capacity might not need to be changed
more frequently. On the other hand, a small filter with half or a quarter
of the capacity might need to have a more frequent change interval.

My Toyota, at 5 years of age and with over 100,000 km clocked up, has
servicing at factory recommended intervals. My wife's car, on the other
hand, has only done 40,000 km in the same time interval. It gets its
servicing, including oil and filter changes, done by *time*. In other
words, it gets an oil change and filter every 6 months *regardless* of
what's on the odometer.


The filter too.
Every day you replace the oil & filter and they won't break down too
much.

But that's not the way the world works.
Instead you follow whatever specs your manufacturer recommends you
follow.

That's why specifications matter. That's why the specs that matter are
usually printed on the oil container.

Manufacturer's specs are a *guide* only. Servicing intervals are dictated
by many variables - there is no hard and fast service interval.

It's not a matter of price or convenience which most others claimed it
was.
It's a matter of knowledge and understanding of meaningful
specifications.

Alls these other people know are dollar bills.
They make all their decisions based only on money.

That's fine.
It works for them.

But I like to make my decisions based on an understanding of the product.
And specs are part of that understanding of the product (for synthetic
oil).

For most laypeople, the specs on, say, the oil, are totally meaningless. I
don't get anal about oil specs. If the oil I buy meets the *minimum* spec
recommended by the car manufacturer, then that's what I go with. No point
in going with a more expensive or more highly speced oil if your engine
cannot benefit from the increased capability.

I am wide open about not knowing how to compare two different synthetics.
At least not yet.

I don't see anyone else here who knows anything about synthetic oil
though.

Everything almost everyone else said they pulled out of their own
assholes.
Especially the ones who claimed it was all about money and not about
specs.

They can't understand what the product is as they only understand money.
Everyone understands money (even me) so it's easy (for them) to decide.

But I like to make my decisions based on meaningfully relevent
specifications which I openly admit I don't know what they are just yet.

I make my decisions based on the car manufacturer's requirements. I figure
they would have a clue about what works in engines they manufacture.

But neither does anyone else (at least not those who have responded).
So I guess I'm on my own.

It's been forty years since I took tribo class,
but at the time there was a standard measurement with a rotating drum
inside
a stationary drum that creates high shear on the test sample. You
measure
viscosity regularly and plot it against time.

Isn't all that supposed to be encompassed meaningfully within the oil
spec?

Why do you get so anal about oil specs?

Thats the way he is, its Arlen Holder with a new nick.

Pick an oil that matches your vehicle manufacturer's minimum spec and
you're good to go.

Clean linear paraffin oils did well on the test, oils with a lot of
crosslinking or rings did poorly.

You'd think a "synthetic oil" base would be pure linear paraffin chains
with a
very narrow range of molecular weights and you might be right or you
might
be terribly wrong, depending. Also, of course, the VI breaks down, not
just
the base oil.

I tried calling both Chevron & Warren Distribution but I'll have to wait
till Monday to get their technical people on the line.

Sometimes they tell us a lot and sometimes they just spit out the
advertising so it's a crap shoot whether or not that call will bear
fruit.

I think the best test so far of the Kirkland synthetic oil was this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9il_piyuT8

And I think the best single description of the (euro) specs is this one.
https://addinol.de/en/products/lubri...pecifications/
If you have something better by all means please let me and all know.

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 23:48:03 +0530, mike
wrote:

On 26-03-2021 22:04 Clare Snyder wrote:

I keep seeing references to Many manufacturers recommend oil filter
intervals different than oil. on many different websites, yet I have
not seen that recommendation in an owner's manual
The only specific recommendations I have seen referenced are on Honda
in the USA.
Toyota has always recommended oil and filter together Kia and Hyundai
do to. All if my Fords and Chryslers have too - so who are the "many
manufacturers"??

How many owners manuals do NOT specify the oil change volume both with the
oil filter also being changed and the oil change volume without the filter?


Oil filters are smaller now and they don't tend to be mounted
vertically holding a quart of oil like an old PF 1.
The oil drains down and the filters are a lot smaller.

On 28-03-2021 07:08 Xeno wrote:

Why do you get so anal about oil specs?

You and I are the only ones who understood that oil and oil filters don't
necessarily wear at the same rate at all times under all conditions.

Everyone else made all their decisions based on purely money & convenience.
To them any thought outside of money & convenience would be "anal" to them.

None of them even understood that the articles I listed said what they said.
Some even said the articles didn't say what the articles definitely said.

To them to UNDERSTAND what an article said is "being anal" about it.
That's because all they know is money and convenience (and they said so).

That girl even claimed factory manuals don't say what they say.
To that girl anything that a shop manual says would be anal to her.

Her mind is set forever at whatever she feels her mind should be set at.
Anything else (like understanding what the articles said) would be "anal."

I said many times it would be hard to find a bad oil and a bad oil filter
although I also noted what to look for in that oil and in that filter.

(Also I mentioned that certain oil additives could damage a catalytic
converter when people brought up the zinc additives which is clearly
something none of them had ever heard or thought about in their lives).

All they ever cared about (and they said so) was their money & convenience.
They said it many times that this was all they ever considered.

How can you NOT be considered anal with people THAT thoughtfully shallow?

To them just UNDERSTANDING something is being "anal" about it.
They couldn't even understand after many prompts what an article said.

Who is that ignorant to REPEATEDLY fail to understand those articles?
They REPEATEDLY failed to understand what the shop manuals actually say.

Why are they so ignorant?
All they cared about was their money and their convenience.

That's why.

At least they were very clear about that being the only thing that mattered.
Which is why anything more than that is to them being "anal" about it.

To understand oil & filters & service intervals was way too much for them.
To understand anything at greater than the level of money is "anal" to them.

"mike" wrote in message
...
On 28-03-2021 07:08 Xeno wrote:

Why do you get so anal about oil specs?

You and I are the only ones who understood that oil and oil filters don't
necessarily wear at the same rate at all times under all conditions.

Another dead giveaway, Arlen.

Everyone else made all their decisions based on purely money &
convenience.

Another dead giveaway, Arlen.

To them any thought outside of money & convenience would be "anal" to
them.

None of them even understood that the articles I listed said what they
said.

Another dead giveaway, Arlen.

Some even said the articles didn't say what the articles definitely said.

To them to UNDERSTAND what an article said is "being anal" about it.
That's because all they know is money and convenience (and they said so).

That girl even claimed factory manuals don't say what they say.
To that girl anything that a shop manual says would be anal to her.

Her mind is set forever at whatever she feels her mind should be set at.
Anything else (like understanding what the articles said) would be "anal."

I said many times it would be hard to find a bad oil and a bad oil filter
although I also noted what to look for in that oil and in that filter.

(Also I mentioned that certain oil additives could damage a catalytic
converter when people brought up the zinc additives which is clearly
something none of them had ever heard or thought about in their lives).

All they ever cared about (and they said so) was their money &
convenience.
They said it many times that this was all they ever considered.

How can you NOT be considered anal with people THAT thoughtfully shallow?

To them just UNDERSTANDING something is being "anal" about it.
They couldn't even understand after many prompts what an article said.

Who is that ignorant to REPEATEDLY fail to understand those articles?
They REPEATEDLY failed to understand what the shop manuals actually say.

Why are they so ignorant?
All they cared about was their money and their convenience.

That's why.

At least they were very clear about that being the only thing that
mattered.
Which is why anything more than that is to them being "anal" about it.

To understand oil & filters & service intervals was way too much for them.
To understand anything at greater than the level of money is "anal" to
them.

On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 14:16:03 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

That¢s the way he is, its Arlen Holder with a new nick.

This coming from the nym-shifting senile Ozzie cretin, of course!

--
Richard addressing senile Rodent Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 18:00:41 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:



Another dead giveaway, Arlen.

Nope, just more trolling on your part, you really abnormal trolling senile
sociopath!

--
Bill Wright addressing senile Ozzie cretin Rodent Speed:
"Well you make up a lot of stuff and it's total ******** most of it."
MID:

The Army used to actually sample oil, under the Army Oil Analysis Program. They checked for metal contaminants and breakdown of additives, I guess, and changed oil based on test results rather than time.

I haven't had contact with that section in years and don't know if they still do it, and obviously that's not practical for the homeowner, but it is one way of doing it.

Xeno wrote:

Oil in the engine is undergoing a continuous breakdown process.
Actually, if the truth be known, it is the additives in the oil which
are breaking down. So, when dealing with oil change intervals, two
factors need to be considered; additive depletion and oil contamination.
These are like the proverbial piece of string - there is no hard and
fast rule on when additives are sufficiently depleted or the oil
sufficiently contaminated to warrant an oil change. Ditto for the oil
filter.

Yes. In most cases, the VI is breaking down faster than the base oil.

However, if you're driving an old car with a lot of blowby, you may find
that contamination of the oil becomes a problem before breakdown does.
On the other hand, if you're driving a new car in widely varying temperatures
you may find VI breakdown becomes an issue long before contamination.

When I was an apprentice, and later, a rule of thumb, backed by the
vehicle owner manuals, was an oil change every 5,000 km (3,000 mi) with
a filter change every 10,000 km (6,000 mi). This was the norm for the
average 6 cylinder vehicles (GM, Ford, Chrysler) of the day, 4 cylinder
vehicles had more frequent oil changes.

What has happened since then? Oils (and their additives) have improved
out of sight. Also, engine ventilation systems (PCV) have improved
vastly. This has extended the oil change intervals. My car, a Toyota,
has the oil *and* filter change interval *recommended* by the
manufacturer at 10,000 km (6,000 mi). So, the oil change interval has
been doubled but the oil filter change interval seems to have remained
static.

Yes, this is true. Also we have many cars which use an algorithm to
estimate the state of the oil given the time and driving conditions,
and which can more precisely estimate proper oil change intervals.

What seems to have been forgotten here is that the recommended oil
change interval will depend on the use made of the vehicle. If you do a
lot of short runs where the engine never warms up sufficiently, you will
experience greater wear factors and increased oil contamination
requiring shorter than recommended oil change interval. Will that impact
the filter change interval? Maybe. It really depends on the filter
capacity - the point at which the filter will block up and commence
bypass. A large filter of, say, 1 litre (1 quart) capacity might not
need to be changed more frequently. On the other hand, a small filter
with half or a quarter of the capacity might need to have a more
frequent change interval.

Bingo.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 3/28/21 10:28 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Xeno wrote:

Oil in the engine is undergoing a continuous breakdown process.
Actually, if the truth be known, it is the additives in the oil which
are breaking down. So, when dealing with oil change intervals, two
factors need to be considered; additive depletion and oil contamination.
These are like the proverbial piece of string - there is no hard and
fast rule on when additives are sufficiently depleted or the oil
sufficiently contaminated to warrant an oil change. Ditto for the oil
filter.

Yes. In most cases, the VI is breaking down faster than the base oil.

However, if you're driving an old car with a lot of blowby, you may find
that contamination of the oil becomes a problem before breakdown does.
On the other hand, if you're driving a new car in widely varying temperatures
you may find VI breakdown becomes an issue long before contamination.

When I was an apprentice, and later, a rule of thumb, backed by the
vehicle owner manuals, was an oil change every 5,000 km (3,000 mi) with
a filter change every 10,000 km (6,000 mi). This was the norm for the
average 6 cylinder vehicles (GM, Ford, Chrysler) of the day, 4 cylinder
vehicles had more frequent oil changes.

What has happened since then? Oils (and their additives) have improved
out of sight. Also, engine ventilation systems (PCV) have improved
vastly. This has extended the oil change intervals. My car, a Toyota,
has the oil *and* filter change interval *recommended* by the
manufacturer at 10,000 km (6,000 mi). So, the oil change interval has
been doubled but the oil filter change interval seems to have remained
static.

Yes, this is true. Also we have many cars which use an algorithm to
estimate the state of the oil given the time and driving conditions,
and which can more precisely estimate proper oil change intervals.

What seems to have been forgotten here is that the recommended oil
change interval will depend on the use made of the vehicle. If you do a
lot of short runs where the engine never warms up sufficiently, you will
experience greater wear factors and increased oil contamination
requiring shorter than recommended oil change interval. Will that impact
the filter change interval? Maybe. It really depends on the filter
capacity - the point at which the filter will block up and commence
bypass. A large filter of, say, 1 litre (1 quart) capacity might not
need to be changed more frequently. On the other hand, a small filter
with half or a quarter of the capacity might need to have a more
frequent change interval.

Bingo.
--scott

It's really hard for me to understand why this is such a long thread
that includes so many erudite discussions of motor oil chemistry and
operation.

Of course you change your filter every time you change your oil!

Here's why:
You're already underneath the vehicle.
The drain pan is in already place.
You already have oily hands and a greasy smear on your face.
You've already skinned your right hand knuckles and yelled Damn it!
Walmart sells a standard Fram oil filter for $3.88 while Fram's "Ultra
Synthetic 20,000 Mile Change Interval" filter goes for $8.57.

I haven't run the filter/car cost ratio/percentage yet...but I paid
$44,762 for my ride...

--
There are no dangerous weapons. There are only dangerous men.

On 03/28/2021 10:17 AM, Wade Garrett wrote:

It's really hard for me to understand why this is such a long thread
that includes so many erudite discussions of motor oil chemistry and
operation.

Of course you change your filter every time you change your oil!

Here's why:
You're already underneath the vehicle.
The drain pan is in already place.

You forgot "You already broke the cheap Harbor Freight open-end wrench
on the drain plug and had to go find another one in your tool box.
While looking for the other wrench you find the 10mm socket you lost a
few months ago. While contemplating this miracle you forget you were
looking for the other wrench..."

You already have oily hands and a greasy smear on your face.
You've already skinned your right hand knuckles and yelled Damn it!
Walmart sells a standard Fram oil filter for $3.88 while Fram's "Ultra
Synthetic 20,000 Mile Change Interval" filter goes for $8.57.

I haven't run the filter/car cost ratio/percentage yet...but I paid
$44,762 for my ride...

When I bought the Corolla I decided I was never going to fix another car
thing. At some point "I'm getting too old for this ****" becomes the
driving force.

BTW, while walking I found both a regular and a deep 10mm 3/8 socket.
Different walks, different locations. This is really disturbing.

--
Cheers, Bev
"The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably
the day they start making vacuum cleaners." --Ernst Jan Plugge

On Sunday, March 28, 2021 at 2:44:16 PM UTC-5, The Real Bev wrote:
On 03/28/2021 10:17 AM, Wade Garrett wrote:

It's really hard for me to understand why this is such a long thread
that includes so many erudite discussions of motor oil chemistry and
operation.

Of course you change your filter every time you change your oil!

Here's why:
You're already underneath the vehicle.
The drain pan is in already place.
You forgot "You already broke the cheap Harbor Freight

There is a Harbor Freight on my walk to post office and fed ex

every time I see it I think

freighters i think are catch all for every kind of cargo ship and containers are probably a kind of freighter

this seems to be a tool store

what does this name have to do with tools.

mk5000

Serve places on the cool, I'm a goddamn fool
Inquiring minds wanna know "why you treat us so cruel"
Cause I'm bad to the bone, I act young but I'm grown
18 with my own home, I'm the king on the throne.

source: https://www.lyricsondemand.com/y/yun...asslyrics.html

"marika" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, March 28, 2021 at 2:44:16 PM UTC-5, The Real Bev wrote:
On 03/28/2021 10:17 AM, Wade Garrett wrote:

It's really hard for me to understand why this is such a long thread
that includes so many erudite discussions of motor oil chemistry and
operation.

Of course you change your filter every time you change your oil!

Here's why:
You're already underneath the vehicle.
The drain pan is in already place.
You forgot "You already broke the cheap Harbor Freight

There is a Harbor Freight on my walk to post office and fed ex

every time I see it I think

freighters i think are catch all for every kind of cargo ship and
containers are probably a kind of freighter

this seems to be a tool store

what does this name have to do with tools.

They all show up from china in containers as freight in the harbor, silly.

On 3/28/21 3:44 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
On 03/28/2021 10:17 AM, Wade Garrett wrote:

It's really hard for me to understand why this is such a long thread
that includes so many erudite discussions of motor oil chemistry and
operation.

Of course you change your filter every timeÂ* you change your oil!

Here's why:
You're already underneath the vehicle.
The drain pan is in already place.

You forgot "You already broke the cheap Harbor Freight open-end wrench
on the drain plug and had to go find another one in your tool box. While
looking for the other wrench you find the 10mm socket you lost a few
months ago.Â* While contemplating this miracle you forget you were
looking for the other wrench..."

You already have oily hands and a greasy smear on your face.
You've already skinned your right hand knuckles and yelled Damn it!
Walmart sells a standard Fram oil filter for $3.88 while Fram's "Ultra
Synthetic 20,000 Mile Change Interval" filter goes for $8.57.

I haven't run the filter/car cost ratio/percentage yet...but I paid
$44,762 for my ride...

When I bought the Corolla I decided I was never going to fix another car
thing.Â* At some point "I'm getting too old for this ****" becomes the
driving force.

BTW, while walking I found both a regular and a deep 10mm 3/8 socket.
Different walks, different locations.Â* This is really disturbing.

I'm quick for look for a way to save a buck- but not on tools;
top-drawer stuff all the way.

Of course, if I can find it on sale, I'm on it!

--
Law-abiding legal gun owners in the U.S. possess about 270 million
firearms and billions of rounds of ammunition. Seriously people, if they
were a problem, youd know it!

The Real Bev wrote:

You forgot "You already broke the cheap Harbor Freight open-end wrench
on the drain plug and had to go find another one in your tool box.
While looking for the other wrench you find the 10mm socket you lost a
few months ago. While contemplating this miracle you forget you were
looking for the other wrench..."

Go out right now and get a set of Wright wrenches. It will save you
a lifetime of torn-up knuckles.

When I bought the Corolla I decided I was never going to fix another car
thing. At some point "I'm getting too old for this ****" becomes the
driving force.

You might not be too old, it might be your tools.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article , says...

Of course you change your filter every time you change your oil!

Here's why:
You're already underneath the vehicle.
The drain pan is in already place.
You already have oily hands and a greasy smear on your face.
You've already skinned your right hand knuckles and yelled Damn it!
Walmart sells a standard Fram oil filter for $3.88 while Fram's "Ultra
Synthetic 20,000 Mile Change Interval" filter goes for $8.57.




You have not changed the filter on some of the newer cars. Toyota has
gone to an old timey cartrage type filter instead of the screw on ones.
You often have to remove much of the shielding or whatever you call that
stuff under the engine that helps with the wind resistance.

As I have gotten lazy in the last few years and don't drive much, I just
take my car and truck to the dealer once a year and let them service it
and inspect it. Doubt they change the filter, but who knows ?

In article , says...

When I bought the Corolla I decided I was never going to fix another car
thing. At some point "I'm getting too old for this ****" becomes the
driving force.

You might not be too old, it might be your tools.
--sc


I have good tools by Craftman and SK, also some HF junk tools. I am
another that decided I am too old to fool with most thing on a car.

Speaking of HF, I saved a club members night. His fan belt had jumped
off and he needed a 3/8 inch ratchet or pull bar. Out of about 20 men
there I was the only one that had the tool. It was in a $ 29.95 (with
coupon) HF tool kit I keep in my truck for just emergencies. The tool
seemed ok after use, but it may never work again.

On 3/28/21 7:21 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...

Of course you change your filter every time you change your oil!

Here's why:
You're already underneath the vehicle.
The drain pan is in already place.
You already have oily hands and a greasy smear on your face.
You've already skinned your right hand knuckles and yelled Damn it!
Walmart sells a standard Fram oil filter for $3.88 while Fram's "Ultra
Synthetic 20,000 Mile Change Interval" filter goes for $8.57.




You have not changed the filter on some of the newer cars. Toyota has
gone to an old timey cartrage type filter instead of the screw on ones.
You often have to remove much of the shielding or whatever you call that
stuff under the engine that helps with the wind resistance.

As I have gotten lazy in the last few years and don't drive much, I just
take my car and truck to the dealer once a year and let them service it
and inspect it. Doubt they change the filter, but who knows ?



You're right, it's been a while since I've been underneath a Toyota.
Didn't know about the change to hidden cartridge filters.

The oil filter in my wife's Subaru Forester is located on the top side
of the engine opposite the battery with its threaded end facing down.
You can remove the filter wearing white gloves and stay clean. The mess
that drips down into the engine and onto the garage floor is another
story however.

--
Have you ever looked into a mirror and thought...hell no, that cant be
right.

Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...
Of course you change your filter every time you change your oil!

Here's why:
You're already underneath the vehicle.
The drain pan is in already place.
You already have oily hands and a greasy smear on your face.
You've already skinned your right hand knuckles and yelled Damn it!
Walmart sells a standard Fram oil filter for $3.88 while Fram's "Ultra
Synthetic 20,000 Mile Change Interval" filter goes for $8.57.




You have not changed the filter on some of the newer cars. Toyota has
gone to an old timey cartrage type filter instead of the screw on ones.
You often have to remove much of the shielding or whatever you call that
stuff under the engine that helps with the wind resistance.

As I have gotten lazy in the last few years and don't drive much, I just
take my car and truck to the dealer once a year and let them service it
and inspect it. Doubt they change the filter, but who knows ?




There are a lot of vehicles with cartridge filters. That started over 20
years ago. Some are easy, some are a pain. Then you have some cars that
no longer have drain plugs and use spin on filters. Just keeping track
can be fun. I do like some of them though, top mounted oil filter and
easy access dipstick that you can pull all the oil out of. Nothing like
not even getting dirt on your hands to do an oil change.


--
Steve W.

On 03/28/2021 01:44 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
When I bought the Corolla I decided I was never going to fix another car
thing. At some point "I'm getting too old for this ****" becomes the
driving force.

I was thinking that a few weekends ago when I swapped the studs for
street tires. Then I realized I'd just covered my next gym day and could
skip it.

1. 40 yard farmer's walk with 2 tires -- 4 reps
2. Breaker bar curls -- 40 reps
3. Squats -- 8 reps
4. Pushups -- 4 reps
5. various cardio maneuvers
6. Probably did some crunches or situps along the way


That makes changing oil a piece of cake. 1 pushup to see if anything is
dripping.

On 03/28/2021 02:36 PM, marika wrote:
what does this name have to do with tools.

All their merchandise is offloaded from Chinese container ships at the
Harbor Department of the City of Long Beach?

On 03/28/2021 05:27 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
Speaking of HF, I saved a club members night. His fan belt had jumped
off and he needed a 3/8 inch ratchet or pull bar. Out of about 20 men
there I was the only one that had the tool. It was in a $ 29.95 (with
coupon) HF tool kit I keep in my truck for just emergencies. The tool
seemed ok after use, but it may never work again.

He would have been SOL with me if I had the Toyota since all the tools
are metric. He would have been in luck if I had the pickup since the '86
F150 is a half breed born in Canada and I need both.

On 03/28/2021 05:21 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...

Of course you change your filter every time you change your oil!

Here's why:
You're already underneath the vehicle.
The drain pan is in already place.
You already have oily hands and a greasy smear on your face.
You've already skinned your right hand knuckles and yelled Damn it!
Walmart sells a standard Fram oil filter for $3.88 while Fram's "Ultra
Synthetic 20,000 Mile Change Interval" filter goes for $8.57.




You have not changed the filter on some of the newer cars. Toyota has
gone to an old timey cartrage type filter instead of the screw on ones.
You often have to remove much of the shielding or whatever you call that
stuff under the engine that helps with the wind resistance.

My Toyota has a spin on filter that I can reach down from the top and
spin off. If I'm lucky I don't drop it in the pan.

Disclaimer: that's after the first change. The first time around I need
a filter wrench to break the OEM filter loose.

When I'm looking at cars I open the hood and take inventory to make sure
it's maintainable. I'll admit the first Yaris fooled me. I thought the
ignition wires were hiding under the plastic panel but it doesn't have any.

On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 20:38:15 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

I was thinking that a few weekends ago when I swapped the studs for
street tires. Then I realized I'd just covered my next gym day and could
skip it.

1. 40 yard farmer's walk with 2 tires -- 4 reps
2. Breaker bar curls -- 40 reps
3. Squats -- 8 reps
4. Pushups -- 4 reps
5. various cardio maneuvers
6. Probably did some crunches or situps along the way

Feeling better again after you got THAT senile story off your chest, senile
gossip? Simply unbelievable! tsk

On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 20:51:08 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


My Toyota has a spin on filter that I can reach down from the top and
spin off. If I'm lucky I don't drop it in the pan.

Disclaimer: that's after the first change. The first time around I need
a filter wrench to break the OEM filter loose.

When I'm looking at cars I open the hood and take inventory to make sure
it's maintainable. I'll admit the first Yaris fooled me. I thought the
ignition wires were hiding under the plastic panel but it doesn't have any.

****! Do you really have NOBODY to talk to in RL, senile gossip? One can
almost feel your social deficits that you keep living out here by babbling
endlessly about each and every thing.

On 3/28/2021 8:16 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
On 3/28/21 7:21 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...

Of course you change your filter every timeÂ* you change your oil!

Here's why:
You're already underneath the vehicle.
The drain pan is in already place.
You already have oily hands and a greasy smear on your face.
You've already skinned your right hand knuckles and yelled Damn it!
Walmart sells a standard Fram oil filter for $3.88 while Fram's "Ultra
Synthetic 20,000 Mile Change Interval" filter goes for $8.57.




You have not changed the filter on some of the newer cars.Â* Toyota has
gone to an old timey cartrage type filter instead of the screw on ones.
You often have to remove much of the shielding or whatever you call that
stuff under the engine that helps with the wind resistance.

As I have gotten lazy in the last few years and don't drive much, I just
take my car and truck to the dealer once a year and let them service it
and inspect it. Doubt they change the filter, but who knows ?



You're right, it's been a while since I've been underneath a Toyota.
Didn't know about the change to hidden cartridge filters.

The oil filter in my wife's Subaru Forester is located on the top side
of the engine opposite the battery with its threaded end facing down.
You can remove the filter wearing white gloves and stay clean. The mess
that drips down into the engine and onto the garage floor is another
story however.


I had a 1998 Forester and filter and drain plug were on the bottom of
the engine and I had to use ramps to get at it and remove a cowling with
half dozen or so plastic push ins to get at it. In next few years they
put in a small entry point in the cowling with still push ins to remove
then finally drain point unrestricted with filter on top of engine.

I have a Crosstrek now configured the same and in latter years with not
much driving just have the dealer service it. Out of curiosity I
watched a You Tube video on a guy changing the oil and he had a
struggle getting off the factory installed filter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UOy-nq-QYE

On 03/29/2021 06:49 AM, Frank wrote:
I have a Crosstrek now configured the same and in latter years with not
much driving just have the dealer service it. Out of curiosity I
watched a You Tube video on a guy changing the oil and he had a struggle
getting off the factory installed filter.

They haven't read the part about a quarter turn after the seal touches
at the factory. I've gotten a collection of those end cap things over
the years and generally have one that fits. If not I fall back on the
strap wrench.

On 3/29/2021 10:02 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 03/29/2021 06:49 AM, Frank wrote:
I have a Crosstrek now configured the same and in latter years with not
much driving just have the dealer service it.Â* Out of curiosity I
watched a You Tube video on a guy changing the oil and he had a struggle
getting off the factory installed filter.

They haven't read the part about a quarter turn after the seal touches
at the factory. I've gotten a collectionÂ* of those end cap things over
the years and generally have one that fits. If not I fall back on the
strap wrench.

I had the dealer put on a filter I could not get off in the limited
space under my Forester when I went to change the oil. I made the
dealer take it off and replace it with my filter. I had been screwed on
a 60,000 mile service where I had changed the oil a couple of months
before I went in and did not realize that they had done an unnecessary
engine flush.

On 3/29/21 10:52 AM, Frank wrote:
On 3/29/2021 10:02 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 03/29/2021 06:49 AM, Frank wrote:
I have a Crosstrek now configured the same and in latter years with not
much driving just have the dealer service it.Â* Out of curiosity I
watched a You Tube video on a guy changing the oil and he had a struggle
getting off the factory installed filter.

They haven't read the part about a quarter turn after the seal touches
at the factory. I've gotten a collectionÂ* of those end cap things over
the years and generally have one that fits. If not I fall back on the
strap wrench.

I had the dealer put on a filter I could not get off in the limited
space under my Forester when I went to change the oil.Â* I made the
dealer take it off and replace it with my filter.Â* I had been screwed on
a 60,000 mile service where I had changed the oil a couple of months
before I went in and did not realize that they had done an unnecessary
engine flush.

Surprising the dealer would install a part you supplied.

The usual party line why they won't do it is that the dealership
agreement prohibits installing anything but factory/OEM parts due to
liability and fit/function issues...the real reason being they don't
make any money on the part- just on the labor to install it.

OTOH, I can't imagine going into a nice restaurant and saying "here,
please cook and serve me this nice sirloin steak I bought in the
supermarket across the street" ;-)

--
Name one time in human history when the group seeking to ban books and
censor speech were the good guys. I'll wait...

On 29-03-2021 22:28 Wade Garrett wrote:

I can't imagine going into a nice restaurant and saying "here,
please cook and serve me this nice sirloin steak

Some apply courking fees to cover their costs when you bring your parts.

On 3/29/2021 1:40 PM, mike wrote:
On 29-03-2021 22:28 Wade Garrett wrote:

I can't imagine going into a nice restaurant and saying "here, please
cook and serve me this nice sirloin steak

Some apply courking fees to cover their costs when you bring your parts.


Waterfront Restaurant on Anna Maria Island advertises "You catch, we cook"

On 3/29/2021 12:58 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
On 3/29/21 10:52 AM, Frank wrote:
On 3/29/2021 10:02 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 03/29/2021 06:49 AM, Frank wrote:
I have a Crosstrek now configured the same and in latter years with not
much driving just have the dealer service it.Â* Out of curiosity I
watched a You Tube video on a guy changing the oil and he had a
struggle
getting off the factory installed filter.

They haven't read the part about a quarter turn after the seal
touches at the factory. I've gotten a collectionÂ* of those end cap
things over the years and generally have one that fits. If not I fall
back on the strap wrench.

I had the dealer put on a filter I could not get off in the limited
space under my Forester when I went to change the oil.Â* I made the
dealer take it off and replace it with my filter.Â* I had been screwed
on a 60,000 mile service where I had changed the oil a couple of
months before I went in and did not realize that they had done an
unnecessary engine flush.

Surprising the dealer would install a part you supplied.

The usual party line why they won't do it is that the dealership
agreement prohibits installing anything but factory/OEM parts due to
liability and fit/function issues...the real reason being they don't
make any money on the part- just on the labor to install it.

OTOH, I can't imagine going into a nice restaurant and saying "here,
please cook and serve me this nice sirloin steak I bought in the
supermarket across the street"Â* ;-)


It was a while back but the complete story was I had taken the car to
the dealer for the 60,000 mile check up and when I brought it in asked
the cost and what it entailed and they told me to wait and they would
get back to me. I waited several minutes but then my wife came to take
me home and I did not get it and found out when I picked up the car. I
was ****ed at the cost in part as engine flush is not really required
along with necessary oil and filter change. Then to find they put on a
filter that I could not remove must have got me really ****ed because
they changed the filter at no charge.

To answer other response, I have had plumbers install items that I bought.

On 22-03-2021 23:20 mike wrote:
I called Kirkland (Warren Distribution is the blender in Omaha Nebraska).
https://warrendistribution.com/contact/
(800)825-1235 x1 customer service, x1 again for customer service
They called back but I missed it so I'm gonna have to try again.

Meanwhile I spent about an hour on the line with Mobil.

Mobil (https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/contact-us)
(800)662-4525 x1 (non commercial) x1 (motor oil)
The guy who answered wasn't good enough so he patched me thru
to the second level technical support after he pointed me to the datasheets.
http://exxonmobil.com/pds
https://www.exxonmobil.com/en/pds#f:Location=[United%20States]

But the guy didn't know how to answer my questions about motor oil selection
so he transferred me to a second level who transferred me to a supervisor
after a while (which was nice of them as each knew more than the prior).

What I did while I was waiting was pullup a random Costco Mobil 1
https://www.costco.com/mobil-super-s...100594938.html

And pulled up the datasheet
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...thetic-10w-30/

The 2nd level just gave me more lookup engines for personal vehicles
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants

For example you can put in your year make and model to find their oil
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...ght-motor-oil/

But it pretty much suggests all their oils (not surprisingly)
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...8/896/1265/0/1

If it says Super it's a blend, if it says Mobil 1 it's full.
(Except the exception of Mobil Super Synthetic 10W-30).

If it says "Extended Performance" it's high mileage (20K / 1 year).
If it says "Advanced Fuel Economy" it's not for high mileage.

Basically they only gave me mostly the marketing that was on the outside.
High Mileage & super blends don't meet the dexos spec.
He basically said the full synthetic is better than the blends.
But he said there are no rules anywhere for what constitutes what.

As an aside, he said synthetic oil finds leaks not causes them.
He defended oil detergents as exposing leaks (by cleaning out gunk).

When I asked about filters he said they don't make filters.
He said all Mobile oil filters are rated at 1 year 20k miles.
Mobil contracts out to Mann-Hummel who also makes Wix & Purolator filters.
1-919-926-4210 (temporary covid number for Mann-Hummel)
x1 product information hotline (M-F 8am to 7:30pm, Sat 9am to 5:30pm)
https://www.mann-hummel.com/en/
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...8/896/1265/0/1

Mann-Hummel didn't know the answers to the questions so they said they'd
have a support person write to me over email (so I'm waiting for that).
--
BTW, he said Penzoil starts with natural gas for their synthetics.

On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 11:58:25 AM UTC-5, Wade Garrett wrote:
On 3/29/21 10:52 AM, Frank wrote:
On 3/29/2021 10:02 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 03/29/2021 06:49 AM, Frank wrote:
I have a Crosstrek now configured the same and in latter years with not
much driving just have the dealer service it. Out of curiosity I
watched a You Tube video on a guy changing the oil and he had a struggle
getting off the factory installed filter.

They haven't read the part about a quarter turn after the seal touches
at the factory. I've gotten a collection of those end cap things over
the years and generally have one that fits. If not I fall back on the
strap wrench.

I had the dealer put on a filter I could not get off in the limited
space under my Forester when I went to change the oil. I made the
dealer take it off and replace it with my filter. I had been screwed on
a 60,000 mile service where I had changed the oil a couple of months
before I went in and did not realize that they had done an unnecessary
engine flush.
Surprising the dealer would install a part you supplied.

The usual party line why they won't do it is that the dealership
agreement prohibits installing anything but factory/OEM parts due to
liability and fit/function issues...the real reason being they don't
make any money on the part- just on the labor to install it.

OTOH, I can't imagine going into a nice restaurant and saying "here,
please cook and serve me this nice sirloin steak I bought in the
supermarket across the street" ;-)



On a business trip in Kentucky, we were repeatedly steered to the best restaurant in town. It was a dry county. We ate there and the restaurant was good

The owner told us about a gas station across the Kentucky line in Virginia that would sell us wine and venison. He told us to return with the venison and he would cook it

He did not tell us the restaurant was closed the next day so we had the place to ourselves

We ordered vegetables, sides and desserts off the menu, but he cooked the venison

It was very good

at the end, when we asked for the bill, he refused to charge us

We left a nice hefty tip

Try Kentucky next time

mk5000

Although some of these theories have been deduced from a prior theoretical framework, none was the result of empirical testing or exploratory data-gathering. In the ensuing section, we turn to consider empirically-oriented research regarding the number and nature of potential musical functions.--The psychological functions of music listening
Thomas Schäfer,1,* Peter Sedlmeier,1 Christine Städtler,1 and David Huron2

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 18:33:44 -0500, Jim Joyce posted for all of us to digest...


On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 13:05:56 -0400, wrote:

Bear in mind, the manufacturer would be perfectly happy if the car
blew up the day after the warranty expired. Then you would have to buy
another one.

I doubt that any car manufacturer would be happy about that because if they
build a car that blows up the day after the warranty expires, you can be
sure that the replacement car will be made by someone else.

Maybe for foreign cars. They intend to sell you your next 10 cars.
USA: They want to sell you your next car. There used to be brand loyalty.
Always buy a Chevy. Fords are great, Mopars rule, blah blah, blah. That's
gone.

--
Tekkie

On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 2:56:51 PM UTC-5, marika wrote:
On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 11:58:25 AM UTC-5, Wade Garrett wrote:
On 3/29/21 10:52 AM, Frank wrote:
On 3/29/2021 10:02 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 03/29/2021 06:49 AM, Frank wrote:
I have a Crosstrek now configured the same and in latter years with not
much driving just have the dealer service it. Out of curiosity I
watched a You Tube video on a guy changing the oil and he had a struggle
getting off the factory installed filter.

They haven't read the part about a quarter turn after the seal touches
at the factory. I've gotten a collection of those end cap things over
the years and generally have one that fits. If not I fall back on the
strap wrench.

I had the dealer put on a filter I could not get off in the limited
space under my Forester when I went to change the oil. I made the
dealer take it off and replace it with my filter. I had been screwed on
a 60,000 mile service where I had changed the oil a couple of months
before I went in and did not realize that they had done an unnecessary
engine flush.
Surprising the dealer would install a part you supplied.

The usual party line why they won't do it is that the dealership
agreement prohibits installing anything but factory/OEM parts due to
liability and fit/function issues...the real reason being they don't
make any money on the part- just on the labor to install it.

OTOH, I can't imagine going into a nice restaurant and saying "here,
please cook and serve me this nice sirloin steak I bought in the
supermarket across the street" ;-)

On a business trip in Kentucky, we were repeatedly steered to the best restaurant in town. It was a dry county. We ate there and the restaurant was good

The owner told us about a gas station across the Kentucky line in Virginia that would sell us wine and venison. He told us to return with the venison and he would cook it

He did not tell us the restaurant was closed the next day so we had the place to ourselves

We ordered vegetables, sides and desserts off the menu, but he cooked the venison

It was very good

at the end, when we asked for the bill, he refused to charge us

We left a nice hefty tip

Try Kentucky next time

mk5000

Although some of these theories have been deduced from a prior theoretical framework, none was the result of empirical testing or exploratory data-gathering. In the ensuing section, we turn to consider empirically-oriented research regarding the number and nature of potential musical functions.--The psychological functions of music listening
Thomas Schäfer,1,* Peter Sedlmeier,1 Christine Städtler,1 and David Huron2


correction

it was bison