On Wednesday, March 24, 2021 at 7:23:56 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 16:27:30 -0400, Tekkie©
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 19:03:08 -0400, posted for all of us to
digest...


On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 23:20:33 +0530, mike
wrote:

Kids are on spring break so I changed their oil & filters.

Bought Costco oil but to my surprise they no longer sell dino juice.
Bought Mobil 1 oil filters at Walmart but they also had no dino juice..
Went to O'Reillys but their conventional was more expensive than synthetic.

I had Costco look up who had conventional oil and it turns out they
discounted their last cases of Chevron 10W30 SN & 10W40 SN conventional oils
to $9.97/10 quarts more than a year ago and haven't sold any conventional
motor oils since then at any Costco in my area.

Huh?
Since when is conventional oil hard to find in bulk?
Is this a new thing?

I'm not complaining or even asking whether the $25/10 quarts Kirkland fully
synthetic 5W30 SP oil is good or not as I know all about synthetic oil
advantages & disadvantages over conventional gasoline engine motor oils.

I'm just asking if you've also found it hard to find conventional oil by the
case at good prices (which means at your local Costco or department store)?

Rural King still had it the last time I was there and it is cheaper
than all of those places. .

http://www.ruralkingsupply.com/produ...t2=15&cat3=102

Harvest King oil... Well, I be gol danged. Does it have fiber?
Oil is oil. I understand Citgo makes their oil.

so...why does Brent cost so much more expensive than WTI, lol

mk5000

For it so falls out
That what we have we prize not to the worth,
Whiles we enjoy it, but being lackd and lost,
Why, then we rack the value; then we find
The virtue, that possession would not show us
Whiles it was ours.
Friar, scene i, Much Ado About Nothing, shakespeare

On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 17:43:06 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/24/2021 4:38 PM, Tekkie? wrote:

On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 10:50:25 -0400, Frank posted for all of us to digest...



Scotty Kilmer is fond of saying, "Oil is cheap, engines are expensive.
Change your oil frequently."

Sorry Frank, I don't consider him a reliable source. He has a point there but
his comments on other issues leave a lot to be desired. If he were the "Ruler
of the Cars" one would only be allowed to have a Toyota.


I can't stand to listen to him more than 20 seconds. Can't imagine
having to spend more than a few minutes with him at work every day.

I don't think I could listen to him for more than 10 seconds. This guy is very good. I
watch just about every vid he makes.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtA...liY7ko1PBhzTHA

On 03/24/2021 02:27 PM, Tekkie� wrote:

On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 19:03:08 -0400, posted for all of us to
digest...


On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 23:20:33 +0530, mike
wrote:

Kids are on spring break so I changed their oil & filters.

Bought Costco oil but to my surprise they no longer sell dino juice.
Bought Mobil 1 oil filters at Walmart but they also had no dino juice.
Went to O'Reillys but their conventional was more expensive than synthetic.

I had Costco look up who had conventional oil and it turns out they
discounted their last cases of Chevron 10W30 SN & 10W40 SN conventional oils
to $9.97/10 quarts more than a year ago and haven't sold any conventional
motor oils since then at any Costco in my area.

Huh?
Since when is conventional oil hard to find in bulk?
Is this a new thing?

I'm not complaining or even asking whether the $25/10 quarts Kirkland fully
synthetic 5W30 SP oil is good or not as I know all about synthetic oil
advantages & disadvantages over conventional gasoline engine motor oils.

I'm just asking if you've also found it hard to find conventional oil by the
case at good prices (which means at your local Costco or department store)?

Rural King still had it the last time I was there and it is cheaper
than all of those places. .

http://www.ruralkingsupply.com/produ...t2=15&cat3=102

Harvest King oil... Well, I be gol danged. Does it have fiber?


Finest corn oil...


https://image.invaluable.com/housePh...L110747760.jpg

I never used the cheap **** but I imagine some people who can't tell a
fox from a wolf did. I haven't seen Wolf's Head around here but it used
to be good stuff.

On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 16:33:51 -0400, Tekkie©
wrote:


On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 00:41:14 -0400, posted for all of us to
digest...


On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 20:58:50 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:


On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 1:50:40 PM UTC-4, mike wrote:

I'm not complaining or even asking whether the $25/10 quarts Kirkland fully
synthetic 5W30 SP oil is good or not as I know all about synthetic oil
advantages & disadvantages over conventional gasoline engine motor oils.

I'm just asking if you've also found it hard to find conventional oil by the
case at good prices (which means at your local Costco or department store)?

My VW came with dire warnings not to put anything but the recommended dealer oil in. But it's new enough not to leak down, so not a worry for a while.

Conventional and synthetic oils both start with the same raw dino juice though. The only difference is in the refining. Both have a range of different molecular weight oils, but the synthetic has a much tighter range.


Synthetics are superior to conventional oils. I've witnessed testing
and the difference is amazing. The test i saw showed a small engine
seizing on conventional oil at 5000 rpm but would run forever on
synthetic at 8000 rpm.

I really think people obsess about oil. Cars are scrapped for a dozen
other reason long before they fail from a failure related to the oil.
If you are using any genuine API rated oil suitable for your engine
and change it occasionally your engine will outlast the car at least
as much as the oil would affect.

+1 I guess Clare could give an idea about oil related destruction. I think the
problem spot on engines now is the VVT mechanism. As on SNL "We will pump you
up"
ANything with VVT you need to be carefull to use the specified oil
and change it often enough, or the savings realized by skimping on oil
will bite you in the ass in a spectacularly expensive way.

On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 16:41:03 -0400, Tekkie©
wrote:


On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 09:30:13 +0530, mike posted for all of us to digest...


On 22-03-2021 17:32 Bubba Smollett wrote:

If it meets the required API spec, it's good enough for me.

https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-.../dp/B07C5FF8RG

According to this video all three of these oils are the same
(and all three are definitely made by the same manufacturer)
https://youtu.be/l9il_piyuT8?t=668

Amazon Basics
Supertech
Kirkland fully synthetic

They're all the same oil made by Warren Distribution in Omaha Nebraska.

Not only does it meet the API SP specification but it also meets
Dexos 1 Generation 2 approval (which I'm not yet sure what that is).

Thank you Arlen, why don't you inform us what this spec details?
I'm not Arlen, but Dexos is spec oil specified for GM products after
2011. Gen 2 was the second spec - Gen 3 is current.

On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 17:43:06 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/24/2021 4:38 PM, Tekkie? wrote:

On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 10:50:25 -0400, Frank posted for all of us to digest...



Scotty Kilmer is fond of saying, "Oil is cheap, engines are expensive.
Change your oil frequently."

Sorry Frank, I don't consider him a reliable source. He has a point there but
his comments on other issues leave a lot to be desired. If he were the "Ruler
of the Cars" one would only be allowed to have a Toyota.


I can't stand to listen to him more than 20 seconds. Can't imagine
having to spend more than a few minutes with him at work every day.
Not only is he extremely irritating he is wrong at least twice as
often than right.

On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 20:32:51 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


Finest corn oil...

https://image.invaluable.com/housePh...L110747760.jpg

I never used the cheap **** but I imagine some people who can't tell a
fox from a wolf did. I haven't seen Wolf's Head around here but it used
to be good stuff.

You're really big on words, eh, senile gossip? LOL Every single piece of
crap you recount sounds kinda dramatic. You'd have made a great journalist
....but you ended up as a senile blabbermouth. BG

On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 17:43:38 -0700 (PDT), marika
wrote:

On Wednesday, March 24, 2021 at 7:23:56 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 16:27:30 -0400, Tekkie©
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 19:03:08 -0400, posted for all of us to
digest...


On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 23:20:33 +0530, mike
wrote:

Kids are on spring break so I changed their oil & filters.

Bought Costco oil but to my surprise they no longer sell dino juice.
Bought Mobil 1 oil filters at Walmart but they also had no dino juice.
Went to O'Reillys but their conventional was more expensive than synthetic.

I had Costco look up who had conventional oil and it turns out they
discounted their last cases of Chevron 10W30 SN & 10W40 SN conventional oils
to $9.97/10 quarts more than a year ago and haven't sold any conventional
motor oils since then at any Costco in my area.

Huh?
Since when is conventional oil hard to find in bulk?
Is this a new thing?

I'm not complaining or even asking whether the $25/10 quarts Kirkland fully
synthetic 5W30 SP oil is good or not as I know all about synthetic oil
advantages & disadvantages over conventional gasoline engine motor oils.

I'm just asking if you've also found it hard to find conventional oil by the
case at good prices (which means at your local Costco or department store)?

Rural King still had it the last time I was there and it is cheaper
than all of those places. .

http://www.ruralkingsupply.com/produ...t2=15&cat3=102

Harvest King oil... Well, I be gol danged. Does it have fiber?
Oil is oil. I understand Citgo makes their oil.

so...why does Brent cost so much more expensive than WTI, lol


The cost of refining?
Once it gets in the bottle it is the same as far as API is concerned.

On 3/24/2021 4:38 PM, Tekkie� wrote:

On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 10:50:25 -0400, Frank posted for all of us to digest...


On 3/23/2021 10:42 AM, TimR wrote:
On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 8:08:50 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:


Then there are the fanatics that change synthetic oil every 5K miles or less,
that change the tranny, differential fluid and antifreeze every 20K miles and
only use the official dealer fluid.

I have a friend who drives older vehicles.

Every time he changes his oil, he also pulls the plug on the coolant and the transmission fluid. He doesn't drop the pan or make an effort to get all the fluids out, but he replaces the amount that did drain, and figures about every third times he's replaced it.

It seems to work for him, he gets a lot out of older vehicles.


Scotty Kilmer is fond of saying, "Oil is cheap, engines are expensive.
Change your oil frequently."

Sorry Frank, I don't consider him a reliable source. He has a point there but
his comments on other issues leave a lot to be desired. If he were the "Ruler
of the Cars" one would only be allowed to have a Toyota.


I cannot fault him for the comment on oil and learn a lot from him and
he is entertaining. He does make good points that make sense like a
turbocharged small engine is bound to wear out faster.

He is a Toyota fan but points out some of their bad years. He expects a
good car to last for hundreds of thousands of miles. I never had a car
with much over one hundred thousand miles on it that was not dying of
old age.

He has a huge fan base and makes all his money off You Tube videos and
no car or car part sponsors.

On 25-03-2021 13:08 wrote:

Once it gets in the bottle it is the same as far as API is concerned.

I agree with you that oil is a commodity which people obsess about.
Mostly because advertisers want to give people something to obsess about.

Every brand is different but those differences won't matter much to us.

What matters mostly is how often we change it (IMHO).
Which itself matters mostly based on our weather & driving patterns (IMHO).

And even that is subject to a lot of personal opinion (IMHO).
Everyone makes their own assessment of what to use & when to change (IMHO).

(My personal opinion is twice a year for dino & once a year for synth).
(My personal opinion is a filter change roughly about once a year.)

For me the motor oil buying choice is simple.
1. Price (about $1.50/qt for good dino juice, about twice that for synth)
2. Quality (any API that meets or exceeds the spec in the owners manual)
3. Viscosity (any SAE range that meets the spec in the owners manual)

In practice you'd have to go out of your way to find an oil that doesn't
meet the spec in the owners manual so it eventually boils down to price.

Price changes over time but currently it's $2.50/qt for Costco fully
synthetic (API SP, SAE 5W30, Dexos 1 gen 2) in sets of two five quart jugs.

It's harder to find a spec for oil filters but like oil it matters less when
you change often (defined by me as being about yearly which is ~12K miles).

I've seen many oil filter teardowns so I avoid Fram and STP oil filters and
I know that only a few manufacturers likely make most oil filters anyways
and I do know that the Napa Gold (also Wix) are usually the best in those
teardowns and that the Purloators at Toyota turn out to be reasonably good
too (as do the AC Delcos).

The Walmart K&N, SuperTech, Mobil 1 and Fram often come out differentially
as do the Bosch at times.

Mostly I look for 30um at 99% or even 20 micron if I can find it but not all
boxes say and there's no spec that I know of for oil filters like there is
for oil that help compare them (they're all good enough for my cars except
maybe Fram).

If you know of a spec that's printed on all oil filter boxes for comparison
sake like there is for oil that would be helpful for sure.

On 25-03-2021 22:17 Frank wrote:

He has a huge fan base and makes all his money off You Tube videos and
no car or car part sponsors.

Scotty Kilmer's automotive repair & maintenance advice is good for young
kids (IMHO) but maybe not for wizened old farts like we are (& like he is).

The reason is that his advice is overly simplified (IMHO) such that Scotty
leaves out important detail we old farts know (& I'm sure he knows it too).

Mostly Scotty is in the right direction but he doesn't go into enough detail
to tell us much we didn't long ago learn way back in the sixties (IMHO).

On 3/25/2021 1:05 PM, mike wrote:


(My personal opinion is twice a year for dino & once a year for synth).
(My personal opinion is a filter change roughly about once a year.)

For me the motor oil buying choice is simple.
1. Price (about $1.50/qt for good dino juice, about twice that for synth)
2. Quality (any API that meets or exceeds the spec in the owners manual)
3. Viscosity (any SAE range that meets the spec in the owners manual)

In practice you'd have to go out of your way to find an oil that doesn't
meet the spec in the owners manual so it eventually boils down to price.

Price changes over time but currently it's $2.50/qt for Costco fully
synthetic (API SP, SAE 5W30, Dexos 1 gen 2) in sets of two five quart jugs.

It's harder to find a spec for oil filters but like oil it matters less
when
you change often (defined by me as being about yearly which is ~12K miles).

I've seen many oil filter teardowns so I avoid Fram and STP oil filters and
I know that only a few manufacturers likely make most oil filters anyways
and I do know that the Napa Gold (also Wix) are usually the best in those
teardowns and that the Purloators at Toyota turn out to be reasonably good
too (as do the AC Delcos).

The Walmart K&N, SuperTech, Mobil 1 and Fram often come out differentially
as do the Bosch at times.

Mostly I look for 30um at 99% or even 20 micron if I can find it but not
all
boxes say and there's no spec that I know of for oil filters like there is
for oil that help compare them (they're all good enough for my cars except
maybe Fram).

If you know of a spec that's printed on all oil filter boxes for comparison
sake like there is for oil that would be helpful for sure.

Pretty much agree with your opinion. With a turbo, I'd go with
synthetic as they are subject to some high RPM.

No matter what you or I think or have experienced, there is always the
guy that says "my car runs a lot smoother or Brand Y over Brand X."

On 3/25/2021 1:22 PM, mike wrote:
On 25-03-2021 22:17 Frank wrote:

He has a huge fan base and makes all his money off You Tube videos and
no car or car part sponsors.

Scotty Kilmer's automotive repair & maintenance advice is good for young
kids (IMHO) but maybe not for wizened old farts like we are (& like he is).

The reason is that his advice is overly simplified (IMHO) such that Scotty
leaves out important detail we old farts know (& I'm sure he knows it too).

Mostly Scotty is in the right direction but he doesn't go into enough
detail
to tell us much we didn't long ago learn way back in the sixties (IMHO).

I agree and if I were to do some of this work I'd look for a detailed
You Tube video.

It is interesting for us old farts how much computers do in cars today.
You need a good computer, an expensive scan tool, to find many problems.

I recall a couple of years ago putting my dwell tac meter and timing
light in the Goodwill bag.

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 12:47:51 -0400, Frank "frank wrote:

On 3/24/2021 4:38 PM, Tekkie? wrote:

On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 10:50:25 -0400, Frank posted for all of us to digest...


On 3/23/2021 10:42 AM, TimR wrote:
On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 8:08:50 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:


Then there are the fanatics that change synthetic oil every 5K miles or less,
that change the tranny, differential fluid and antifreeze every 20K miles and
only use the official dealer fluid.

I have a friend who drives older vehicles.

Every time he changes his oil, he also pulls the plug on the coolant and the transmission fluid. He doesn't drop the pan or make an effort to get all the fluids out, but he replaces the amount that did drain, and figures about every third times he's replaced it.

It seems to work for him, he gets a lot out of older vehicles.


Scotty Kilmer is fond of saying, "Oil is cheap, engines are expensive.
Change your oil frequently."

Sorry Frank, I don't consider him a reliable source. He has a point there but
his comments on other issues leave a lot to be desired. If he were the "Ruler
of the Cars" one would only be allowed to have a Toyota.


I cannot fault him for the comment on oil and learn a lot from him and
he is entertaining. He does make good points that make sense like a
turbocharged small engine is bound to wear out faster.

He is a Toyota fan but points out some of their bad years. He expects a
good car to last for hundreds of thousands of miles. I never had a car
with much over one hundred thousand miles on it that was not dying of
old age.


Buy a Honda. My Prelude is almost 25 years old, god only knows how
many miles it has on it because the speedometer was tricked up when I
got it in 2002 but it says 110,000 and the engine is probably the
strongest part. My guess is closer to 200k. I also don't take very
good care of it. Cheap oil, when I think about it and that is far from
once a year. At this point a dealer oil change and the service they
sell you with that would be 10% of the value of the car ;-)

This is also that VVT thing that Clare says requires wonder oil.

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 14:34:31 -0400, Frank "frank wrote:

It is interesting for us old farts how much computers do in cars today.
You need a good computer, an expensive scan tool, to find many problems.

They will scan for codes at the auto parts store for free. I have a
blue tooth scan tool I have never plugged in.

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 22:35:05 +0530, mike wrote:

On 25-03-2021 13:08 wrote:

Once it gets in the bottle it is the same as far as API is concerned.

I agree with you that oil is a commodity which people obsess about.
Mostly because advertisers want to give people something to obsess about.

Every brand is different but those differences won't matter much to us.

What matters mostly is how often we change it (IMHO).
Which itself matters mostly based on our weather & driving patterns (IMHO).

And even that is subject to a lot of personal opinion (IMHO).
Everyone makes their own assessment of what to use & when to change (IMHO).

(My personal opinion is twice a year for dino & once a year for synth).
(My personal opinion is a filter change roughly about once a year.)

I'm curious. If you're going to go to the trouble of changing the oil twice
a year, why not change the filter twice a year, as in, doing both at the
same time? It seems like only a small increment of extra work and expense.

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 15:01:50 -0500, Jim Joyce posted for all of us to digest...


On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 22:35:05 +0530, mike wrote:

On 25-03-2021 13:08 wrote:

Once it gets in the bottle it is the same as far as API is concerned.

I agree with you that oil is a commodity which people obsess about.
Mostly because advertisers want to give people something to obsess about.

Every brand is different but those differences won't matter much to us.

What matters mostly is how often we change it (IMHO).
Which itself matters mostly based on our weather & driving patterns (IMHO).

And even that is subject to a lot of personal opinion (IMHO).
Everyone makes their own assessment of what to use & when to change (IMHO).

(My personal opinion is twice a year for dino & once a year for synth).
(My personal opinion is a filter change roughly about once a year.)

I'm curious. If you're going to go to the trouble of changing the oil twice
a year, why not change the filter twice a year, as in, doing both at the
same time? It seems like only a small increment of extra work and expense.

How dare you question Arlen?

--
Tekkie

On Thursday, March 25, 2021 at 10:39:04 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 17:43:38 -0700 (PDT), marika
wrote:

On Wednesday, March 24, 2021 at 7:23:56 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 16:27:30 -0400, Tekkie©
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 19:03:08 -0400, posted for all of us to
digest...


On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 23:20:33 +0530, mike
wrote:

Kids are on spring break so I changed their oil & filters.

Bought Costco oil but to my surprise they no longer sell dino juice.
Bought Mobil 1 oil filters at Walmart but they also had no dino juice.
Went to O'Reillys but their conventional was more expensive than synthetic.

I had Costco look up who had conventional oil and it turns out they
discounted their last cases of Chevron 10W30 SN & 10W40 SN conventional oils
to $9.97/10 quarts more than a year ago and haven't sold any conventional
motor oils since then at any Costco in my area.

Huh?
Since when is conventional oil hard to find in bulk?
Is this a new thing?

I'm not complaining or even asking whether the $25/10 quarts Kirkland fully
synthetic 5W30 SP oil is good or not as I know all about synthetic oil
advantages & disadvantages over conventional gasoline engine motor oils.

I'm just asking if you've also found it hard to find conventional oil by the
case at good prices (which means at your local Costco or department store)?

Rural King still had it the last time I was there and it is cheaper
than all of those places. .

http://www.ruralkingsupply.com/produ...t2=15&cat3=102

Harvest King oil... Well, I be gol danged. Does it have fiber?
Oil is oil. I understand Citgo makes their oil.

so...why does Brent cost so much more expensive than WTI, lol

The cost of refining?
Once it gets in the bottle it is the same as far as API is concerned.

it is actually a different quality than other petroleum

(Putin sells a lot of it and it has plummeted in price for a lot of reasons, and is causing Russia to go broke, but get ready for overall oil prices to go up due to the canister disaster in Suez)

mk5000

Margo: As it happens, there are particular aspects of my life to which I would like to maintain sole and exclusive rights and privileges.
Bill Sampson: For instance what?
Margo: For instance: you!--All About Eve

On 25-03-2021 22:01 Jim Joyce wrote:

(My personal opinion is twice a year for dino & once a year for synth).
(My personal opinion is a filter change roughly about once a year.)

I'm curious. If you're going to go to the trouble of changing the oil twice
a year, why not change the filter twice a year, as in, doing both at the
same time? It seems like only a small increment of extra work and expense.

That's a good question where the answer is that it's totally up to you.

The logic is no different than the logic you use for when to replace your
brake rotors or when you replace your tire valves or when you replace your
transmission filter or when you replace your tie rod ends (and on and on).

When to replace is up to you.

Why not replace the rotors or drums with every change of pads or shoes?
The logic is the rotors/drums last longer than one change of pads/shoes.

Why not replace the tire valves with every rotation or change of tires?
The logic is the tire valves can easily last longer than one set of wheels.

But it's totally up to you.

The logic is that the oil filter lasts longer than does one change of oil
just as brake rotors often last longer than one change of brake pads.

If you want to change them every time that's completely up to you to replace
them even though they're still well within spec when you changed them.

It's totally up to you.

On 3/25/2021 7:16 PM, mike wrote:
On 25-03-2021 22:01 Jim Joyce wrote:

(My personal opinion is twice a year for dino & once a year for synth).
(My personal opinion is a filter change roughly about once a year.)

I'm curious. If you're going to go to the trouble of changing the oil
twice
a year, why not change the filter twice a year, as in, doing both at the
same time? It seems like only a small increment of extra work and
expense.

That's a good question where the answer is that it's totally up to you.

The logic is no different than the logic you use for when to replace your
brake rotors or when you replace your tire valves or when you replace your
transmission filter or when you replace your tie rod ends (and on and on).

When to replace is up to you.

Why not replace the rotors or drums with every change of pads or shoes?
The logic is the rotors/drums last longer than one change of pads/shoes.

Why not replace the tire valves with every rotation or change of tires?
The logic is the tire valves can easily last longer than one set of wheels.

But it's totally up to you.

The logic is that the oil filter lasts longer than does one change of oil
just as brake rotors often last longer than one change of brake pads.

If you want to change them every time that's completely up to you to
replace
them even though they're still well within spec when you changed them.

It's totally up to you.

Of course it is up to you. I can see condition and measure wear on
rotors when changing pads so it is an easy decision.

Can you see and measure how well the filter is working? Given it is an
integral part of the lubrication system, has a cost of $10, and is
helping protect a $5000+ engine, I change it every time. Cheap
insurance and peace of mind.

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 04:46:23 +0530, mike
wrote:

On 25-03-2021 22:01 Jim Joyce wrote:

(My personal opinion is twice a year for dino & once a year for synth).
(My personal opinion is a filter change roughly about once a year.)

I'm curious. If you're going to go to the trouble of changing the oil twice
a year, why not change the filter twice a year, as in, doing both at the
same time? It seems like only a small increment of extra work and expense.

That's a good question where the answer is that it's totally up to you.

The logic is no different than the logic you use for when to replace your
brake rotors or when you replace your tire valves or when you replace your
transmission filter or when you replace your tie rod ends (and on and on).

When to replace is up to you.

Why not replace the rotors or drums with every change of pads or shoes?
The logic is the rotors/drums last longer than one change of pads/shoes.

Why not replace the tire valves with every rotation or change of tires?
The logic is the tire valves can easily last longer than one set of wheels.

But it's totally up to you.

The logic is that the oil filter lasts longer than does one change of oil
just as brake rotors often last longer than one change of brake pads.

If you want to change them every time that's completely up to you to replace
them even though they're still well within spec when you changed them.

It's totally up to you.
If "I" was going to change the filter on a different schedule than
the oil I'd change the filter twice an the oil once - - - - - assuming
synthetic oil

On 3/25/2021 3:01 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 22:35:05 +0530, mike wrote:

On 25-03-2021 13:08 wrote:

Once it gets in the bottle it is the same as far as API is concerned.

I agree with you that oil is a commodity which people obsess about.
Mostly because advertisers want to give people something to obsess about.

Every brand is different but those differences won't matter much to us.

What matters mostly is how often we change it (IMHO).
Which itself matters mostly based on our weather & driving patterns (IMHO).

And even that is subject to a lot of personal opinion (IMHO).
Everyone makes their own assessment of what to use & when to change (IMHO).

(My personal opinion is twice a year for dino & once a year for synth).
(My personal opinion is a filter change roughly about once a year.)

I'm curious. If you're going to go to the trouble of changing the oil twice
a year, why not change the filter twice a year, as in, doing both at the
same time? It seems like only a small increment of extra work and expense.


It's vestigial from the 1950s when oil and labor were cheap
and filters were expensive. No good reason now, certainly
not any technical reason. I changed to oil with new filter
every 3K miles in the 1970s.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

In article ,
says...

Buy a Honda. My Prelude is almost 25 years old, god only knows how
many miles it has on it because the speedometer was tricked up when I
got it in 2002 but it says 110,000 and the engine is probably the
strongest part. My guess is closer to 200k. I also don't take very
good care of it. Cheap oil, when I think about it and that is far from
once a year. At this point a dealer oil change and the service they
sell you with that would be 10% of the value of the car ;-)




I had a Camry that had 195,000 on it when I got rid of it. OUtside of
the normal wear items , all I replaced was a sensor that did cost about
$ 600 at around 140,000. AS I did not drive it all that much, I changed
the oil 2 times a year. Once at inspection time and 6 months later.
Even the AC in that 20 year old car was never worked on and still kept
me cool in the summer in NC.

On 03/25/2021 12:26 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/25/2021 1:05 PM, mike wrote:


(My personal opinion is twice a year for dino & once a year for synth).
(My personal opinion is a filter change roughly about once a year.)

For me the motor oil buying choice is simple.
1. Price (about $1.50/qt for good dino juice, about twice that for synth)
2. Quality (any API that meets or exceeds the spec in the owners manual)
3. Viscosity (any SAE range that meets the spec in the owners manual)

In practice you'd have to go out of your way to find an oil that doesn't
meet the spec in the owners manual so it eventually boils down to price.

Price changes over time but currently it's $2.50/qt for Costco fully
synthetic (API SP, SAE 5W30, Dexos 1 gen 2) in sets of two five quart
jugs.

It's harder to find a spec for oil filters but like oil it matters
less when
you change often (defined by me as being about yearly which is ~12K
miles).

I've seen many oil filter teardowns so I avoid Fram and STP oil
filters and
I know that only a few manufacturers likely make most oil filters anyways
and I do know that the Napa Gold (also Wix) are usually the best in those
teardowns and that the Purloators at Toyota turn out to be reasonably
good
too (as do the AC Delcos).

The Walmart K&N, SuperTech, Mobil 1 and Fram often come out
differentially
as do the Bosch at times.

Mostly I look for 30um at 99% or even 20 micron if I can find it but
not all
boxes say and there's no spec that I know of for oil filters like
there is
for oil that help compare them (they're all good enough for my cars
except
maybe Fram).

If you know of a spec that's printed on all oil filter boxes for
comparison
sake like there is for oil that would be helpful for sure.

Pretty much agree with your opinion. With a turbo, I'd go with
synthetic as they are subject to some high RPM.

No matter what you or I think or have experienced, there is always the
guy that says "my car runs a lot smoother or Brand Y over Brand X."

In the motorcycle forums the usual reply is 'Sweet Jesus! Another
frigging oil thread!'

On 03/25/2021 02:35 PM, Tekkie� wrote:

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 15:01:50 -0500, Jim Joyce posted for all of us to digest...


On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 22:35:05 +0530, mike wrote:

On 25-03-2021 13:08 wrote:

Once it gets in the bottle it is the same as far as API is concerned.

I agree with you that oil is a commodity which people obsess about.
Mostly because advertisers want to give people something to obsess about.

Every brand is different but those differences won't matter much to us.

What matters mostly is how often we change it (IMHO).
Which itself matters mostly based on our weather & driving patterns (IMHO).

And even that is subject to a lot of personal opinion (IMHO).
Everyone makes their own assessment of what to use & when to change (IMHO).

(My personal opinion is twice a year for dino & once a year for synth).
(My personal opinion is a filter change roughly about once a year.)

I'm curious. If you're going to go to the trouble of changing the oil twice
a year, why not change the filter twice a year, as in, doing both at the
same time? It seems like only a small increment of extra work and expense.

How dare you question Arlen?


I find it much easier to filter him...

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 15:01:50 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 22:35:05 +0530, mike wrote:

On 25-03-2021 13:08 wrote:

Once it gets in the bottle it is the same as far as API is concerned.

I agree with you that oil is a commodity which people obsess about.
Mostly because advertisers want to give people something to obsess about.

Every brand is different but those differences won't matter much to us.

What matters mostly is how often we change it (IMHO).
Which itself matters mostly based on our weather & driving patterns (IMHO).

And even that is subject to a lot of personal opinion (IMHO).
Everyone makes their own assessment of what to use & when to change (IMHO).

(My personal opinion is twice a year for dino & once a year for synth).
(My personal opinion is a filter change roughly about once a year.)

I'm curious. If you're going to go to the trouble of changing the oil twice
a year, why not change the filter twice a year, as in, doing both at the
same time? It seems like only a small increment of extra work and expense.

When my old Chevelle was blowing a quart of oil every 1000 miles or
so, the filter was all I changed.

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 20:44:32 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Buy a Honda. My Prelude is almost 25 years old, god only knows how
many miles it has on it because the speedometer was tricked up when I
got it in 2002 but it says 110,000 and the engine is probably the
strongest part. My guess is closer to 200k. I also don't take very
good care of it. Cheap oil, when I think about it and that is far from
once a year. At this point a dealer oil change and the service they
sell you with that would be 10% of the value of the car ;-)




I had a Camry that had 195,000 on it when I got rid of it. OUtside of
the normal wear items , all I replaced was a sensor that did cost about
$ 600 at around 140,000. AS I did not drive it all that much, I changed
the oil 2 times a year. Once at inspection time and 6 months later.
Even the AC in that 20 year old car was never worked on and still kept
me cool in the summer in NC.


I am embarrassed to say how little I have actually done to this Honda.
The big ticket is I paid a dealer $1000 to do a belt. Step one in the
shop manual is "remove engine". In real life they take the motor
mounts loose and tilt it up after removing a bunch of stuff. It does
not line up with a wheel well on a Prelude like it does on an Accord.
It is tight against the frame where the strut mounts.
They also replace the rear main seal water pump and some other stuff
on that deal.
Other than that I put a knock sensor in it, a clutch master cylinder
and slave (can we say that now)?
A set of tires plus two. Some door handles and a plastic piece in the
dash that crumbled. The O ring under the oil filter housing went bad
I think the oil has been changed 8-10 times since 2002.
Other than that I put gas in it and drive. I am just waiting for it to
blow up. I will take the tags and let the guy at AAA who comes to get
me have it. He can drop me off at a rental car place.
I paid $13k in 2002 maybe another $3-4k since then and that's it. I
think I got my money's worth out of it. I really don't care anymore.
I actually think it will last another couple of years.

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 20:49:56 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 03/25/2021 12:26 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/25/2021 1:05 PM, mike wrote:


(My personal opinion is twice a year for dino & once a year for synth).
(My personal opinion is a filter change roughly about once a year.)

For me the motor oil buying choice is simple.
1. Price (about $1.50/qt for good dino juice, about twice that for synth)
2. Quality (any API that meets or exceeds the spec in the owners manual)
3. Viscosity (any SAE range that meets the spec in the owners manual)

In practice you'd have to go out of your way to find an oil that doesn't
meet the spec in the owners manual so it eventually boils down to price.

Price changes over time but currently it's $2.50/qt for Costco fully
synthetic (API SP, SAE 5W30, Dexos 1 gen 2) in sets of two five quart
jugs.

It's harder to find a spec for oil filters but like oil it matters
less when
you change often (defined by me as being about yearly which is ~12K
miles).

I've seen many oil filter teardowns so I avoid Fram and STP oil
filters and
I know that only a few manufacturers likely make most oil filters anyways
and I do know that the Napa Gold (also Wix) are usually the best in those
teardowns and that the Purloators at Toyota turn out to be reasonably
good
too (as do the AC Delcos).

The Walmart K&N, SuperTech, Mobil 1 and Fram often come out
differentially
as do the Bosch at times.

Mostly I look for 30um at 99% or even 20 micron if I can find it but
not all
boxes say and there's no spec that I know of for oil filters like
there is
for oil that help compare them (they're all good enough for my cars
except
maybe Fram).

If you know of a spec that's printed on all oil filter boxes for
comparison
sake like there is for oil that would be helpful for sure.

Pretty much agree with your opinion. With a turbo, I'd go with
synthetic as they are subject to some high RPM.

No matter what you or I think or have experienced, there is always the
guy that says "my car runs a lot smoother or Brand Y over Brand X."

In the motorcycle forums the usual reply is 'Sweet Jesus! Another
frigging oil thread!'

Boat forums too. You wouldn't believe how many people are happy to pay
Yamaha $8-9 a quart for Yamalube, like there is a refinery outside
Yokohama specially blending motor oil for them.
The owners book specifically says any decent motor oil is fine but
they "recommend" Yamalube.
ConAgra "recommends" you put Hunts ketchup on your Armour hot dogs too
but it won't really make them taste any better.

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 15:01:50 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 22:35:05 +0530, mike wrote:

On 25-03-2021 13:08 wrote:

Once it gets in the bottle it is the same as far as API is concerned.

I agree with you that oil is a commodity which people obsess about.
Mostly because advertisers want to give people something to obsess about.

Every brand is different but those differences won't matter much to us.

What matters mostly is how often we change it (IMHO).
Which itself matters mostly based on our weather & driving patterns
(IMHO).

And even that is subject to a lot of personal opinion (IMHO).
Everyone makes their own assessment of what to use & when to change
(IMHO).

(My personal opinion is twice a year for dino & once a year for synth).
(My personal opinion is a filter change roughly about once a year.)

I'm curious. If you're going to go to the trouble of changing the oil
twice
a year, why not change the filter twice a year, as in, doing both at the
same time? It seems like only a small increment of extra work and expense.

When my old Chevelle was blowing a quart of oil every 1000 miles or
so, the filter was all I changed.

My VW Golf/Rabbit didn't use that much and it wasn't
blowing it and I didn't even bother to change the filter
because the oil didn't get all that dirty before it got used.

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 20:44:32 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Buy a Honda. My Prelude is almost 25 years old, god only knows how
many miles it has on it because the speedometer was tricked up when I
got it in 2002 but it says 110,000 and the engine is probably the
strongest part. My guess is closer to 200k. I also don't take very
good care of it. Cheap oil, when I think about it and that is far from
once a year. At this point a dealer oil change and the service they
sell you with that would be 10% of the value of the car ;-)




I had a Camry that had 195,000 on it when I got rid of it. OUtside of
the normal wear items , all I replaced was a sensor that did cost about
$ 600 at around 140,000. AS I did not drive it all that much, I changed
the oil 2 times a year. Once at inspection time and 6 months later.
Even the AC in that 20 year old car was never worked on and still kept
me cool in the summer in NC.


I am embarrassed to say how little I have actually done to this Honda.
The big ticket is I paid a dealer $1000 to do a belt. Step one in the
shop manual is "remove engine". In real life they take the motor
mounts loose and tilt it up after removing a bunch of stuff. It does
not line up with a wheel well on a Prelude like it does on an Accord.
It is tight against the frame where the strut mounts.
They also replace the rear main seal water pump and some other stuff
on that deal.
Other than that I put a knock sensor in it, a clutch master cylinder
and slave (can we say that now)?
A set of tires plus two. Some door handles and a plastic piece in the
dash that crumbled. The O ring under the oil filter housing went bad
I think the oil has been changed 8-10 times since 2002.
Other than that I put gas in it and drive. I am just waiting for it to
blow up. I will take the tags and let the guy at AAA who comes to get
me have it. He can drop me off at a rental car place.

I paid $13k in 2002 maybe another $3-4k since then and that's it.

I paid $13k in 2006 for my Hyundai Getz new and have paid nothing for
any repairs because it hasn't needed any. Just one oil and filter change
too.

I think I got my money's worth out of it.

I know I have.

I really don't care anymore. I actually
think it will last another couple of years.

My 73 VW Golf/Rabbit lasted 45 years and
I changed to the Getz only because I was
stupid enough to not fix the known windscreen
leak until it eventually rusted out the floor corner.
Only significant failure outside warranty was the
alternator regulator and the indicator relay and
the bonnet release wire which I never bothered to fix.

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 15:41:11 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


I paid $13k in 2006 for my Hyundai Getz new and have paid nothing for
any repairs because it hasn't needed any. Just one oil and filter change
too.

NOBODY talked to you or asked you anything, you abnormal senile troll!

--
Marland addressing senile Rodent's tall stories:
"Do you really think people believe your stories you come up with to boost
your self esteem."
Message-ID:

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 20:49:56 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


No matter what you or I think or have experienced, there is always the
guy that says "my car runs a lot smoother or Brand Y over Brand X."

In the motorcycle forums the usual reply is 'Sweet Jesus! Another
frigging oil thread!'

Here I just keep saying, "****, yet more senile gossip"!

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 15:04:50 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


My VW Golf/Rabbit didn't use that much and it wasn't
blowing it and I didn't even bother to change the filter
because the oil didn't get all that dirty before it got used.

NOBODY talked to you are asked you anything, senile pest!

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 86-year-old senile Australian
cretin's pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On Thursday, March 25, 2021 at 11:55:39 PM UTC-4, wrote:

Other than that I put gas in it and drive. I am just waiting for it to
blow up. I will take the tags and let the guy at AAA who comes to get
me have it. He can drop me off at a rental car place.

The advice somebody gave me when I was struggling with an old Volvo repair:

Put a screwdriver and bicycle in the back seat. When it dies take the tags and ride home and forget it.

On 26-03-2021 02:25 AMuzi wrote:

It's vestigial from the 1950s when oil and labor were cheap
and filters were expensive. No good reason now, certainly
not any technical reason. I changed to oil with new filter
every 3K miles in the 1970s.

I already explained in great detail that it's not at all about money.
It's about design and function.

Most people want a simple answer to everything which money is to them.
But not everything is a simple dollars to dollars decision like you claimed.

If all you care about is money then knowing that both the oil filter and the
oil are cheap you're welcome to throw away both at the same interval which
is why I said it's up to you.

But stop saying it's about money when that's only how YOU think.
The manufacturers think differently than you think.

For them it's about engineering.

Many manufacturers recommend oil filter intervals different than oil.
https://knowhow.napaonline.com/how-m...l-filter-last/

If you disagree with the manufacturer then you should answer this question:
Does the oil filter always fail at the exact same rate as does the oil?

On 26-03-2021 01:48 Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Can you see and measure how well the filter is working?

Why do you think many manufacturers recommend a filter every 2nd oil change?
https://knowhow.napaonline.com/how-o...ur-oil-filter/

On 3/26/2021 9:20 AM, mike wrote:
On 26-03-2021 01:48 Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Can you see and measure how well the filter is working?

Why do you think many manufacturers recommend a filter every 2nd oil
change?
https://knowhow.napaonline.com/how-o...ur-oil-filter/

If filters were $100 it would make some sense to wait. For 10 bucks,
give me a new one.

On 26-03-2021 19:35 Ed Pawlowski wrote:

If filters were $100 it would make some sense to wait.
For 10 bucks, give me a new one.

I explained in patient detail that oil filters don't wear at the same rate.
And yet you still make all your decisions based only on dollar bills.

Trust me when I say that I fully & completely understand how you think.
Many people are exactly like you are and in fact perhaps most people are.

They don't care to understand the design & engineering of the product.
They don't understand why the manufacturer recommends the intervals they do.
They don't understand that oil wears differently than do the oil filters.

More to the important point they don't care or even try to understand.
It's hard for them to even try to understand not everything is about money.

Like you they make all their decisions in their life based only on money.
Money is the only thing they understand because it's easy to understand.

And that's OK.
Replacing parts often and well before they need to be replaced works too.
You can change your oil filter for any reason and interval you want to.

On 3/26/2021 10:26 AM, mike wrote:
On 26-03-2021 19:35 Ed Pawlowski wrote:

If filters were $100 it would make some sense to wait. For 10 bucks,
give me a new one.

I explained in patient detail that oil filters don't wear at the same rate.
And yet you still make all your decisions based only on dollar bills.

Trust me when I say that I fully & completely understand how you think.
Many people are exactly like you are and in fact perhaps most people are.

They don't care to understand the design & engineering of the product.
They don't understand why the manufacturer recommends the intervals they
do.
They don't understand that oil wears differently than do the oil filters.

More to the important point they don't care or even try to understand.
It's hard for them to even try to understand not everything is about money.

Like you they make all their decisions in their life based only on money.
Money is the only thing they understand because it's easy to understand.

And that's OK.
Replacing parts often and well before they need to be replaced works too.
You can change your oil filter for any reason and interval you want to.

Oh, I understand but conditions vary too. Short trips in a very cold
climate versus highway driving in mild temperatures. Oil should really
be tested and not just changed at some magic interval of one size fits
all. I can't see the inside of that cartridge filter, nor can I do a
flow test.
Not just about money too. I'm under the car, filter is right there, two
minutes and done. I'm certainly not going with an interval other than a
change time.

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 18:50:44 +0530, mike
wrote:

On 26-03-2021 01:48 Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Can you see and measure how well the filter is working?

Why do you think many manufacturers recommend a filter every 2nd oil change?
https://knowhow.napaonline.com/how-o...ur-oil-filter/
OK Arlen - who are the "many manufacturers"? Honda is only one.