On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 06:48:00 -0700 (PDT), TimR posted for all of us to
digest...


The Army used to actually sample oil, under the Army Oil Analysis Program. They checked for metal contaminants and breakdown of additives, I guess, and changed oil based on test results rather than time.

I haven't had contact with that section in years and don't know if they still do it, and obviously that's not practical for the homeowner, but it is one way of doing it.

The trucking companies do it. Lab tests are still available but what advantage
is there? If you sampled the oil at 5000 and it said ok then again at 10k and
said ok but engine goes at 13k what will the maker say?

This guy *mike* is really Arlen Holder, look up his history and decide for
yourself. He likes to nit pick and argue. He has me kf'd.

--
Tekkie

On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 13:17:25 -0400, Wade Garrett posted for all of us to
digest...


On 3/28/21 10:28 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Xeno wrote:

Oil in the engine is undergoing a continuous breakdown process.
Actually, if the truth be known, it is the additives in the oil which
are breaking down. So, when dealing with oil change intervals, two
factors need to be considered; additive depletion and oil contamination.
These are like the proverbial piece of string - there is no hard and
fast rule on when additives are sufficiently depleted or the oil
sufficiently contaminated to warrant an oil change. Ditto for the oil
filter.

Yes. In most cases, the VI is breaking down faster than the base oil.

However, if you're driving an old car with a lot of blowby, you may find
that contamination of the oil becomes a problem before breakdown does.
On the other hand, if you're driving a new car in widely varying temperatures
you may find VI breakdown becomes an issue long before contamination.

When I was an apprentice, and later, a rule of thumb, backed by the
vehicle owner manuals, was an oil change every 5,000 km (3,000 mi) with
a filter change every 10,000 km (6,000 mi). This was the norm for the
average 6 cylinder vehicles (GM, Ford, Chrysler) of the day, 4 cylinder
vehicles had more frequent oil changes.

What has happened since then? Oils (and their additives) have improved
out of sight. Also, engine ventilation systems (PCV) have improved
vastly. This has extended the oil change intervals. My car, a Toyota,
has the oil *and* filter change interval *recommended* by the
manufacturer at 10,000 km (6,000 mi). So, the oil change interval has
been doubled but the oil filter change interval seems to have remained
static.

Yes, this is true. Also we have many cars which use an algorithm to
estimate the state of the oil given the time and driving conditions,
and which can more precisely estimate proper oil change intervals.

What seems to have been forgotten here is that the recommended oil
change interval will depend on the use made of the vehicle. If you do a
lot of short runs where the engine never warms up sufficiently, you will
experience greater wear factors and increased oil contamination
requiring shorter than recommended oil change interval. Will that impact
the filter change interval? Maybe. It really depends on the filter
capacity - the point at which the filter will block up and commence
bypass. A large filter of, say, 1 litre (1 quart) capacity might not
need to be changed more frequently. On the other hand, a small filter
with half or a quarter of the capacity might need to have a more
frequent change interval.

Bingo.
--scott

It's really hard for me to understand why this is such a long thread
that includes so many erudite discussions of motor oil chemistry and
operation.

Of course you change your filter every time you change your oil!

Here's why:
You're already underneath the vehicle.
The drain pan is in already place.
You already have oily hands and a greasy smear on your face.
You've already skinned your right hand knuckles and yelled Damn it!
Walmart sells a standard Fram oil filter for $3.88 while Fram's "Ultra
Synthetic 20,000 Mile Change Interval" filter goes for $8.57.

I haven't run the filter/car cost ratio/percentage yet...but I paid
$44,762 for my ride...

*mike* is a nym for a guy named Arlen Holder. Look up his history and decide
for yourself. He likes to nit pick on really minuscule issues and then argue.
I'm lucky to be in his kill file. Erudite is a good word.

--
Tekkie

On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 20:38:15 -0600, rbowman posted for all of us to digest...


On 03/28/2021 01:44 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
When I bought the Corolla I decided I was never going to fix another car
thing. At some point "I'm getting too old for this ****" becomes the
driving force.

I was thinking that a few weekends ago when I swapped the studs for
street tires. Then I realized I'd just covered my next gym day and could
skip it.

1. 40 yard farmer's walk with 2 tires -- 4 reps
2. Breaker bar curls -- 40 reps
3. Squats -- 8 reps
4. Pushups -- 4 reps
5. various cardio maneuvers
6. Probably did some crunches or situps along the way


That makes changing oil a piece of cake. 1 pushup to see if anything is
dripping.

Sounds very tiring to me. I'm glad I am not a farmer (the world is better off),
the livestock would be dead, the fields fallow, machinery in disrepair,
windmill jammed, no water and the door on the privy would be falling off it's
hinges.

--
Tekkie

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 20:09:23 -0400, Clare Snyder posted for all of us to
digest...


On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 22:02:54 +0530, mike
wrote:

On 26-03-2021 18:10 Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Oh, I understand but conditions vary too.

You don't think manufacturers took all that into account when they often
recommended a filter every 2nd oil change under normal driving conditions?

Short trips in a very cold climate versus highway driving in mild temperatures.
Oil should really be tested and not just changed at some magic interval of one
size fits all.

I don't disagree on having your oil sent out after the fact for testing.

I can't see the inside of that cartridge filter, nor can I do a
flow test.

I disagree you can't see inside that cartridge filter since teardowns exist.
(1) Why do you think it has a pleated filter & which are the best?
(2) Why do you think it has an antidrainback valve & which is best?
(3) Why do you think it has an overpressure valve & which is best?
(4) Why do you think it has a gasket for engine mating & which is best?
(5) Why do you think it has many holes around the outside & which are best?

Not just about money too.

You had not yet mentioned a single decision that wasn't only about money.
I mentioned the specifications, OEM recommendations and the tear downs.

Clearly we think differently.

You seem to only care about money and convenience (and that's OK).
I very much care about what it is that I'm trying to accomplish.

The ONLY reason NOT to change the filter every time pretty much boils
down to "money". What possible advantage would YPU get bynot changing
the filter????

I'm under the car, filter is right there, two
minutes and done. I'm certainly not going with an interval other than a
change time.

Most people are like you in that they don't understand what it is they buy.
They just replace it without thinking using any interval they feel like.
They probably don't even read the owners manual to see what it says.

Thank all that's holy the whole world isn't like YOU.
And that's OK.
You can replace your oil filter on any interval you feel like doing so.

But I'm going to base my replacement on understanding what the filter does.
And I'm also going to base it on understanding what the manufacturer says.
And I'm going to base my replacement on choosing good filters to start with.

Having said that you're welcome to replace yours on any interval you like.
But if you ask me how I choose my interval then don't only bring up money.

*mike* (Arlen) ain't gonna like this post. Just say'n

--
Tekkie

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 20:38:07 -0400, Clare Snyder posted for all of us to
digest...


On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 15:30:37 -0400, Tekkie©
wrote:


On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:02:03 -0400, Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us to
digest...


On 3/26/2021 12:32 PM, mike wrote:

I can't see the inside of that cartridge filter, nor can I do a flow
test.

I disagree you can't see inside that cartridge filter since teardowns
exist.
(1) Why do you think it has a pleated filter & which are the best?
(2) Why do you think it has an antidrainback valve & which is best?
(3) Why do you think it has an overpressure valve & which is best?
(4) Why do you think it has a gasket for engine mating & which is best?
(5) Why do you think it has many holes around the outside & which are best?

But none of that applies to the filter in my car for the past 5000
miles. Sure, I can buy what seems best but that has nothing to do with
the present condition of my car as I change the oil today. May have
been great for 4900 miles but will it be good for the next couple of
thousand?



Not just about money too.

You had not yet mentioned a single decision that wasn't only about money.
I mentioned the specifications, OEM recommendations and the tear downs.

Clearly we think differently.

You seem to only care about money and convenience (and that's OK).
I very much care about what it is that I'm trying to accomplish.

I care about making my car last. Even a cheap car is a hefty investment
and while I abhor waste, I do believe in proper maintenance. In the
time of ownership I will get 10 oil changes or in your case, an extra 5
filters. About $50 extra on a car I spent $50k on. Keeps my warranty
and peace of mind.



I'm under the car, filter is right there, two minutes and done.* I'm
certainly not going with an interval other than a change time.

Most people are like you in that they don't understand what it is they buy.
They just replace it without thinking using any interval they feel like.
They probably don't even read the owners manual to see what it says.

And that's OK.
You can replace your oil filter on any interval you feel like doing so.

But I'm going to base my replacement on understanding what the filter does.
And I'm also going to base it on understanding what the manufacturer says.
And I'm going to base my replacement on choosing good filters to start
with.

Having said that you're welcome to replace yours on any interval you like.
But if you ask me how I choose my interval then don't only bring up money.

Yeah, say what you want but you bring up money every time. Seems like
you want to save it and that's fine too. My engine has a 100k warranty
and even if I don't keep the car that long the next owner gets benefit.
Owners manual says change the filter.

You realize you are talking with Arlen Holder...
Now he claims to be a ritired accountant - He always claimed to be an
engineer before, didn't he????

Yup, it's Arlen. I keep reading because I look at it as humor. He plonked me a
long time ago. Like the condom vending machines at the the drive-ins said:
"For amusement purposes only" I can't wait for his next nym. He can't help
himself. Clare you're a good guy, don't let him get to you. He seems to have
that nack because you are a serious minded, no BS type. (There is nothing wrong
with that!) I have come to the conclusion he is some kind of research assistant
at the library with little self esteem. But what do I know? Flame on

--
Tekkie

On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 12:46:56 +1100, %% posted for all of us to digest...


"Clare Snyder" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 07:15:49 +1100, "%%" wrote:



"Tekkie©" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:02:03 -0400, Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us to
digest...


On 3/26/2021 12:32 PM, mike wrote:

I can't see the inside of that cartridge filter, nor can I do a flow
test.

I disagree you can't see inside that cartridge filter since teardowns
exist.
(1) Why do you think it has a pleated filter & which are the best?
(2) Why do you think it has an antidrainback valve & which is best?
(3) Why do you think it has an overpressure valve & which is best?
(4) Why do you think it has a gasket for engine mating & which is
best?
(5) Why do you think it has many holes around the outside & which are
best?

But none of that applies to the filter in my car for the past 5000
miles. Sure, I can buy what seems best but that has nothing to do with
the present condition of my car as I change the oil today. May have
been great for 4900 miles but will it be good for the next couple of
thousand?



Not just about money too.

You had not yet mentioned a single decision that wasn't only about
money.
I mentioned the specifications, OEM recommendations and the tear
downs.

Clearly we think differently.

You seem to only care about money and convenience (and that's OK).
I very much care about what it is that I'm trying to accomplish.

I care about making my car last. Even a cheap car is a hefty investment
and while I abhor waste, I do believe in proper maintenance. In the
time of ownership I will get 10 oil changes or in your case, an extra 5
filters. About $50 extra on a car I spent $50k on. Keeps my warranty
and peace of mind.



I'm under the car, filter is right there, two minutes and done. I'm
certainly not going with an interval other than a change time.

Most people are like you in that they don't understand what it is
they
buy.
They just replace it without thinking using any interval they feel
like.
They probably don't even read the owners manual to see what it says.

And that's OK.
You can replace your oil filter on any interval you feel like doing
so.

But I'm going to base my replacement on understanding what the filter
does.
And I'm also going to base it on understanding what the manufacturer
says.
And I'm going to base my replacement on choosing good filters to
start
with.

Having said that you're welcome to replace yours on any interval you
like.
But if you ask me how I choose my interval then don't only bring up
money.

Yeah, say what you want but you bring up money every time. Seems like
you want to save it and that's fine too. My engine has a 100k warranty
and even if I don't keep the car that long the next owner gets benefit.
Owners manual says change the filter.

You realize you are talking with Arlen Holder...

Don't believe that. Arlen was never an accountant.

I doubt he was ever an engineer either

I don't, Arlen certainly did some engineering stuff, particularly wifi
between the houses in his area with very poor cellphone coverage.

Last I heard Arlen was working on a hose receptacle design with no conclusion.

--
Tekkie

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 21:00:48 -0400, Clare Snyder posted for all of us to
digest...
Snipped from another post


Not necessarily the SAME OIL just because it is blended and bottled
by the same company - but is LIKELY either the same or very close.
Even Shell and Mobil and Havoline make more than one kind of oil and
sell them under their own name and those of third parties. - they are
not all the same - - - -



It all depends on who specs what. Just like everything else. You want junk
we'll make junk, you want best we'll make the best, but pay the price.

Remember Sears: Good, better, best? I always thought their best was none too
good. And along came companion...

--
Tekkie

"mike" wrote in message
...
On 22-03-2021 23:20 mike wrote:
I called Kirkland (Warren Distribution is the blender in Omaha Nebraska).
https://warrendistribution.com/contact/ (800)825-1235 x1 customer service,
x1 again for customer service
They called back but I missed it so I'm gonna have to try again.

Meanwhile I spent about an hour on the line with Mobil.

Mobil (https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/contact-us)
(800)662-4525 x1 (non commercial) x1 (motor oil) The guy who answered
wasn't good enough so he patched me thru
to the second level technical support after he pointed me to the
datasheets.
http://exxonmobil.com/pds
https://www.exxonmobil.com/en/pds#f:Location=[United%20States]

But the guy didn't know how to answer my questions about motor oil
selection
so he transferred me to a second level who transferred me to a supervisor
after a while (which was nice of them as each knew more than the prior).

What I did while I was waiting was pullup a random Costco Mobil 1
https://www.costco.com/mobil-super-s...100594938.html

And pulled up the datasheet
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...thetic-10w-30/

The 2nd level just gave me more lookup engines for personal vehicles
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants

For example you can put in your year make and model to find their oil
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...ght-motor-oil/

But it pretty much suggests all their oils (not surprisingly)
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...8/896/1265/0/1

If it says Super it's a blend, if it says Mobil 1 it's full.
(Except the exception of Mobil Super Synthetic 10W-30).

If it says "Extended Performance" it's high mileage (20K / 1 year).
If it says "Advanced Fuel Economy" it's not for high mileage.

Basically they only gave me mostly the marketing that was on the outside.
High Mileage & super blends don't meet the dexos spec.
He basically said the full synthetic is better than the blends.
But he said there are no rules anywhere for what constitutes what.

As an aside, he said synthetic oil finds leaks not causes them.
He defended oil detergents as exposing leaks (by cleaning out gunk).

When I asked about filters he said they don't make filters.
He said all Mobile oil filters are rated at 1 year 20k miles.
Mobil contracts out to Mann-Hummel who also makes Wix & Purolator filters.
1-919-926-4210 (temporary covid number for Mann-Hummel) x1 product
information hotline (M-F 8am to 7:30pm, Sat 9am to 5:30pm)
https://www.mann-hummel.com/en/
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...8/896/1265/0/1

Mann-Hummel didn't know the answers to the questions so they said they'd
have a support person write to me over email (so I'm waiting for that).
--
BTW, he said Penzoil starts with natural gas for their synthetics.

Another dead giveaway, Arlen.

"Tekkie©" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 18:33:44 -0500, Jim Joyce posted for all of us to
digest...


On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 13:05:56 -0400, wrote:

Bear in mind, the manufacturer would be perfectly happy if the car
blew up the day after the warranty expired. Then you would have to buy
another one.

I doubt that any car manufacturer would be happy about that because if
they
build a car that blows up the day after the warranty expires, you can be
sure that the replacement car will be made by someone else.

Maybe for foreign cars. They intend to sell you your next 10 cars.

Nope, they havent been into the american new car every year stupidity.

USA: They want to sell you your next car. There used to be brand loyalty.
Always buy a Chevy. Fords are great, Mopars rule, blah blah, blah. That's
gone.

Not for everyone it hasn't.

"Tekkie©" wrote in message
...

On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 06:48:00 -0700 (PDT), TimR posted for all of us to
digest...


The Army used to actually sample oil, under the Army Oil Analysis
Program. They checked for metal contaminants and breakdown of additives,
I guess, and changed oil based on test results rather than time.

I haven't had contact with that section in years and don't know if they
still do it, and obviously that's not practical for the homeowner, but it
is one way of doing it.

The trucking companies do it. Lab tests are still available but what
advantage
is there? If you sampled the oil at 5000 and it said ok then again at 10k
and
said ok but engine goes at 13k what will the maker say?

This guy *mike* is really Arlen Holder, look up his history and decide for
yourself. He likes to nit pick and argue. He has me kf'd.

Yep, he has stopped taking his meds in the last
few days and the new persona has slipped badly.

He clearly deliberately lied about having been an accountant.

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 08:43:32 +1100, %%, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:


Yep, he has stopped taking his meds in the last
few days and the new persona has slipped badly.

We are only waiting for YOU to take your Nembutal finally, you useless
trolling senile pest! Why did you brag about owning Nembutal when you aren't
willing to use it, sociopathic senile swine?

--
"Who or What is Rod Speed?

Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 08:41:08 +1100, %%, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:


Nope

LOL

Not

LOL

Senile sociopathic cretin!

--
Marland answering senile Rodent's statement, "I don't leak":
"That¢s because so much **** and ****e emanates from your gob that there is
nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse
and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a ******."
Message-ID:

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 08:36:50 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile cretin's latest troll**** unread

--
Richard addressing senile Rodent Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

"Tekkie©" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 20:38:07 -0400, Clare Snyder posted for all of us to
digest...


On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 15:30:37 -0400, Tekkie©
wrote:


On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:02:03 -0400, Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us to
digest...


On 3/26/2021 12:32 PM, mike wrote:

I can't see the inside of that cartridge filter, nor can I do a
flow
test.

I disagree you can't see inside that cartridge filter since
teardowns
exist.
(1) Why do you think it has a pleated filter & which are the best?
(2) Why do you think it has an antidrainback valve & which is best?
(3) Why do you think it has an overpressure valve & which is best?
(4) Why do you think it has a gasket for engine mating & which is
best?
(5) Why do you think it has many holes around the outside & which
are best?

But none of that applies to the filter in my car for the past 5000
miles. Sure, I can buy what seems best but that has nothing to do
with
the present condition of my car as I change the oil today. May have
been great for 4900 miles but will it be good for the next couple of
thousand?



Not just about money too.

You had not yet mentioned a single decision that wasn't only about
money.
I mentioned the specifications, OEM recommendations and the tear
downs.

Clearly we think differently.

You seem to only care about money and convenience (and that's OK).
I very much care about what it is that I'm trying to accomplish.

I care about making my car last. Even a cheap car is a hefty
investment
and while I abhor waste, I do believe in proper maintenance. In the
time of ownership I will get 10 oil changes or in your case, an extra
5
filters. About $50 extra on a car I spent $50k on. Keeps my warranty
and peace of mind.



I'm under the car, filter is right there, two minutes and done.
I'm
certainly not going with an interval other than a change time.

Most people are like you in that they don't understand what it is
they buy.
They just replace it without thinking using any interval they feel
like.
They probably don't even read the owners manual to see what it says.

And that's OK.
You can replace your oil filter on any interval you feel like doing
so.

But I'm going to base my replacement on understanding what the
filter does.
And I'm also going to base it on understanding what the manufacturer
says.
And I'm going to base my replacement on choosing good filters to
start
with.

Having said that you're welcome to replace yours on any interval you
like.
But if you ask me how I choose my interval then don't only bring up
money.

Yeah, say what you want but you bring up money every time. Seems like
you want to save it and that's fine too. My engine has a 100k
warranty
and even if I don't keep the car that long the next owner gets
benefit.
Owners manual says change the filter.

You realize you are talking with Arlen Holder...
Now he claims to be a ritired accountant - He always claimed to be an
engineer before, didn't he????

Yup, it's Arlen. I keep reading because I look at it as humor.

I keep reading because I find it interesting to see if he can
change his persona convincingly for long. Clearly he cant.

He plonked me a long time ago.

He appears to just ignore me for a while but eventually
cant manage to stop himself from responding.

Like the condom vending machines at the the drive-ins said:
"For amusement purposes only" I can't wait for his next nym.

It was interesting that he used to change it almost daily,
then went for months with Arlen Holder and has now
started changing again. He has a couple of different nyms
in another group I read and was missing here for a while.

He can't help himself. Clare you're a good guy, don't let
him get to you. He seems to have that nack because you
are a serious minded, no BS type. (There is nothing wrong
with that!) I have come to the conclusion he is some kind
of research assistant at the library with little self esteem.

Nar, he's an older retired fella with one hell of a bee in
his bonnet about some stuff. He quite literally will never
use any card at all, always uses cash, obsessively changes
the ID details on all his hardware to make it harder to track
him electronically but cant do anything about his very
distinctive style and even now the use of particular words.

He did admit to being Aspergers and that's very obvious.

But what do I know? Flame on

"Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."

https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

--
Richard addressing senile Rodent Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

On 03/29/2021 11:55 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/29/2021 1:40 PM, mike wrote:
On 29-03-2021 22:28 Wade Garrett wrote:

I can't imagine going into a nice restaurant and saying "here, please
cook and serve me this nice sirloin steak

Some apply courking fees to cover their costs when you bring your parts.


Waterfront Restaurant on Anna Maria Island advertises "You catch, we cook"

A diner catering to truckers in Utah has a sign 'You kill them, we grill
them.' I've wondered what they would do if you dragged in a fresh deer
carcass.

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 20:25:17 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 03/29/2021 11:55 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/29/2021 1:40 PM, mike wrote:
On 29-03-2021 22:28 Wade Garrett wrote:

I can't imagine going into a nice restaurant and saying "here, please
cook and serve me this nice sirloin steak

Some apply courking fees to cover their costs when you bring your parts.


Waterfront Restaurant on Anna Maria Island advertises "You catch, we cook"

A diner catering to truckers in Utah has a sign 'You kill them, we grill
them.' I've wondered what they would do if you dragged in a fresh deer
carcass.

Have an all you can eat venison special for the next week.
Deer steak, deer stew, deer sandwich, deer soup, deer kabobs, baked
deer, fried deer, grilled deer, etc ....

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 20:25:17 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

A diner catering to truckers in Utah has a sign 'You kill them, we grill
them.' I've wondered what they would do if you dragged in a fresh deer
carcass.

To me it always seems you got a sign on of your forehead saying, "Senile
Gossip", lowbrowwoman. BG

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 08:41:08 +1100, "%%" wrote:



"Tekkie©" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 18:33:44 -0500, Jim Joyce posted for all of us to
digest...


On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 13:05:56 -0400, wrote:

Bear in mind, the manufacturer would be perfectly happy if the car
blew up the day after the warranty expired. Then you would have to buy
another one.

I doubt that any car manufacturer would be happy about that because if
they
build a car that blows up the day after the warranty expires, you can be
sure that the replacement car will be made by someone else.

Maybe for foreign cars. They intend to sell you your next 10 cars.

Nope, they havent been into the american new car every year stupidity.

USA: They want to sell you your next car. There used to be brand loyalty.
Always buy a Chevy. Fords are great, Mopars rule, blah blah, blah. That's
gone.

Not for everyone it hasn't.

You're just as likely to find somebody who's stuck on Toyota or Honda or Hyundai as
somebody who's stuck on Chevy or Ford. Human nature.

In article ,
says...

You're just as likely to find somebody who's stuck on Toyota or Honda or Hyundai as
somebody who's stuck on Chevy or Ford. Human nature.



I am stuck on cars that last without any trouble. For the last 30 years
it has been Toyota. I have only had one problem with them that was not
a regular maintaince issue with all cars. That was a sensor that went
bad at about 140,000 miles.

All other brands I have had except a 1981 Nissan I put 99,000 miles on
before I bought a new car have given trouble with less than 50,000
miles.

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 16:35:14 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 08:41:08 +1100, "%%" wrote:



"Tekkie©" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 18:33:44 -0500, Jim Joyce posted for all of us to
digest...


On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 13:05:56 -0400, wrote:

Bear in mind, the manufacturer would be perfectly happy if the car
blew up the day after the warranty expired. Then you would have to buy
another one.

I doubt that any car manufacturer would be happy about that because if
they
build a car that blows up the day after the warranty expires, you can be
sure that the replacement car will be made by someone else.

Maybe for foreign cars. They intend to sell you your next 10 cars.

Nope, they havent been into the american new car every year stupidity.

USA: They want to sell you your next car. There used to be brand loyalty.
Always buy a Chevy. Fords are great, Mopars rule, blah blah, blah. That's
gone.

Not for everyone it hasn't.

You're just as likely to find somebody who's stuck on Toyota or Honda or Hyundai as
somebody who's stuck on Chevy or Ford. Human nature.

I would buy another Honda. It probably wouldn't be new tho.

On 03/30/2021 03:35 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 08:41:08 +1100, "%%" wrote:



"Tekkie©" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 18:33:44 -0500, Jim Joyce posted for all of us to
digest...


On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 13:05:56 -0400, wrote:

Bear in mind, the manufacturer would be perfectly happy if the car
blew up the day after the warranty expired. Then you would have to buy
another one.

I doubt that any car manufacturer would be happy about that because if
they
build a car that blows up the day after the warranty expires, you can be
sure that the replacement car will be made by someone else.

Maybe for foreign cars. They intend to sell you your next 10 cars.

Nope, they havent been into the american new car every year stupidity.

USA: They want to sell you your next car. There used to be brand loyalty.
Always buy a Chevy. Fords are great, Mopars rule, blah blah, blah. That's
gone.

Not for everyone it hasn't.

You're just as likely to find somebody who's stuck on Toyota or Honda or Hyundai as
somebody who's stuck on Chevy or Ford. Human nature.


If it's got at least two wheels I'll drive it. The only lemon scented
car I ever owned was an Audi 100LS. I assume they have improved since '71.

On 3/30/21 8:48 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 16:35:14 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 08:41:08 +1100, "%%" wrote:



"Tekkie©" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 18:33:44 -0500, Jim Joyce posted for all of us to
digest...


On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 13:05:56 -0400, wrote:

Bear in mind, the manufacturer would be perfectly happy if the car
blew up the day after the warranty expired. Then you would have to buy
another one.

I doubt that any car manufacturer would be happy about that because if
they
build a car that blows up the day after the warranty expires, you can be
sure that the replacement car will be made by someone else.

Maybe for foreign cars. They intend to sell you your next 10 cars.

Nope, they havent been into the american new car every year stupidity.

USA: They want to sell you your next car. There used to be brand loyalty.
Always buy a Chevy. Fords are great, Mopars rule, blah blah, blah. That's
gone.

Not for everyone it hasn't.

You're just as likely to find somebody who's stuck on Toyota or Honda or Hyundai as
somebody who's stuck on Chevy or Ford. Human nature.

I would buy another Honda. It probably wouldn't be new tho.

In 2016, I needed to replace my top of the trim line 6 cylinder Honda
Accord that I had been quite happy with. I planned to buy a new Accord.

But I looked at them and they were sorely lacking in safety electronics-
especially no Rear Cross Traffic Radar Alert...and the Lane Departure
Warning feature was anemic. That took Honda of my Buy List and I got a
Toyota instead.

I'm half in the market for a new car again and I looked at the Hondas- a
brand I've owned many of over the years and usually liked a lot.

They've improved the safety electronics- but have done away with 6
cylinder sedans- replacing them with 4 cylinder turbo engines. And as
with any new engine/car design, their reliability has suffered the last
couple of years- so Honda is still on my no-fly list :-(

-
Every time a bird craps on my car, I sit on the front porch eating a
plate of wings to show them what I'm capable of.

In article , says...

I'm half in the market for a new car again and I looked at the Hondas- a
brand I've owned many of over the years and usually liked a lot.

They've improved the safety electronics- but have done away with 6
cylinder sedans- replacing them with 4 cylinder turbo engines. And as
with any new engine/car design, their reliability has suffered the last
couple of years- so Honda is still on my no-fly list :-(




A few years ago I was looking at new cars and wanted the horse power of
the V6. HOnda only had a 4 with the turbo. I just thought the turbo
was something else not needed to give trouble ,so went with the Toyota
with out even going to the Honda dealer to look at a car.

Would have looked at the Nissan, but my son had bought one a few years
back and the transmission went out at about 130,000. Found out that
that was a bad design and they had extended the warrenty to 120,000
miles. As it was just slightly over that, Nissan would not repair it
for free and cost my son about $ 4000 to get it repaired.

On 03/31/2021 06:30 AM, Wade Garrett wrote:
They've improved the safety electronics- but have done away with 6
cylinder sedans- replacing them with 4 cylinder turbo engines. And as
with any new engine/car design, their reliability has suffered the last
couple of years- so Honda is still on my no-fly list :-(

Are they using CVT's? That's the show stopper for me, not safety
electronics. I'll admit the auto-dimming headlights seem to work well.
I've triggered the collision warning a couple of times-- and I knew
exactly what I was doing each time. The backuo camera is mildly useful.
I wouldn't wnt to run over the cat.

On 3/31/2021 9:53 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...

I'm half in the market for a new car again and I looked at the Hondas- a
brand I've owned many of over the years and usually liked a lot.

They've improved the safety electronics- but have done away with 6
cylinder sedans- replacing them with 4 cylinder turbo engines. And as
with any new engine/car design, their reliability has suffered the last
couple of years- so Honda is still on my no-fly list :-(




A few years ago I was looking at new cars and wanted the horse power of
the V6. HOnda only had a 4 with the turbo. I just thought the turbo
was something else not needed to give trouble ,so went with the Toyota
with out even going to the Honda dealer to look at a car.

Would have looked at the Nissan, but my son had bought one a few years
back and the transmission went out at about 130,000. Found out that
that was a bad design and they had extended the warrenty to 120,000
miles. As it was just slightly over that, Nissan would not repair it
for free and cost my son about $ 4000 to get it repaired.



I'd avoid a turbo too, apparently expensive to fix if there is a problem
and puts more stress on a small engine wearing it out.

Nissan's were good up to maybe early 2,000's when Renault joined them
and they started to go downhill.

On 3/31/2021 9:57 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 03/31/2021 06:30 AM, Wade Garrett wrote:
They've improved the safety electronics- but have done away with 6
cylinder sedans- replacing them with 4 cylinder turbo engines. And as
with any new engine/car design, their reliability has suffered the last
couple of years- so Honda is still on my no-fly list :-(

Are they using CVT's? That's the show stopper for me, not safety
electronics. I'll admit the auto-dimming headlights seem to work well.
I've triggered the collision warning a couple of times-- and I knew
exactly what I was doing each time. The backuo camera is mildly useful.
I wouldn't wnt to run over the cat.


I like the CVT on my Subaru Crosstrek. Even with AWD I am getting 30
mpg average. I'm not a speed demon that needs jackrabbit starts.

I think they have been on the market long enough to get the kinks out
and hear Nissan is worse brand.

Have yet to have emergency braking and no desire to check and see if it
works. I'm always getting bells and whistles when it does not know a
break in the road lines are from a side street entry and not my mistake.
It also almost steers itself with that function.

On 3/31/2021 10:45 AM, Frank wrote:


A few years ago I was looking at new cars and wanted the horse power of
the V6.Â* HOnda only had a 4 with the turbo.Â* I just thought the turbo
was something else not needed to give trouble ,so went with the Toyota
with out even going to the Honda dealer to look at a car.

Would have looked at the Nissan, but my son had bought one a few years
back and the transmission went out at about 130,000.Â* Found out that
that was a bad design and they had extended the warrenty to 120,000
miles.Â* As it was just slightly over that, Nissan would not repair it
for free and cost my son about $ 4000 to get it repaired.



I'd avoid a turbo too, apparently expensive to fix if there is a problem
and puts more stress on a small engine wearing it out.


Turbos have become very reliable and common. At the EPA mandates become
more stringent you will see more of them. I've had two so far, trouble
free.

Frank "frank writes:
On 3/31/2021 9:53 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...

I'm half in the market for a new car again and I looked at the Hondas- a
brand I've owned many of over the years and usually liked a lot.

They've improved the safety electronics- but have done away with 6
cylinder sedans- replacing them with 4 cylinder turbo engines. And as
with any new engine/car design, their reliability has suffered the last
couple of years- so Honda is still on my no-fly list :-(




A few years ago I was looking at new cars and wanted the horse power of
the V6. HOnda only had a 4 with the turbo. I just thought the turbo
was something else not needed to give trouble ,so went with the Toyota
with out even going to the Honda dealer to look at a car.

Would have looked at the Nissan, but my son had bought one a few years
back and the transmission went out at about 130,000. Found out that
that was a bad design and they had extended the warrenty to 120,000
miles. As it was just slightly over that, Nissan would not repair it
for free and cost my son about $ 4000 to get it repaired.



I'd avoid a turbo too, apparently expensive to fix if there is a problem
and puts more stress on a small engine wearing it out.

Nissan's were good up to maybe early 2,000's when Renault joined them
and they started to go downhill.

Upon what do you base that assertion? How many, and what model,
Nissan vehicles have you driven?

My experience with Nissan (and Datsun) has been 100% positive with
no significant issues on three vehicles ('81 810 Maxima, '98 I30 and '12 M37).

On 3/31/2021 11:50 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Frank "frank writes:
On 3/31/2021 9:53 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...

I'm half in the market for a new car again and I looked at the Hondas- a
brand I've owned many of over the years and usually liked a lot.

They've improved the safety electronics- but have done away with 6
cylinder sedans- replacing them with 4 cylinder turbo engines. And as
with any new engine/car design, their reliability has suffered the last
couple of years- so Honda is still on my no-fly list :-(




A few years ago I was looking at new cars and wanted the horse power of
the V6. HOnda only had a 4 with the turbo. I just thought the turbo
was something else not needed to give trouble ,so went with the Toyota
with out even going to the Honda dealer to look at a car.

Would have looked at the Nissan, but my son had bought one a few years
back and the transmission went out at about 130,000. Found out that
that was a bad design and they had extended the warrenty to 120,000
miles. As it was just slightly over that, Nissan would not repair it
for free and cost my son about $ 4000 to get it repaired.



I'd avoid a turbo too, apparently expensive to fix if there is a problem
and puts more stress on a small engine wearing it out.

Nissan's were good up to maybe early 2,000's when Renault joined them
and they started to go downhill.

Upon what do you base that assertion? How many, and what model,
Nissan vehicles have you driven?

My experience with Nissan (and Datsun) has been 100% positive with
no significant issues on three vehicles ('81 810 Maxima, '98 I30 and '12 M37).


You can look it up yourself. I only had one way pre-2000 and it ran
like a top. I got rid of it when it needed joint boots and cost of
repair approached book value.

On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 07:57:49 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


Are they using CVT's? That's the show stopper for me, not safety
electronics. I'll admit the auto-dimming headlights seem to work well.
I've triggered the collision warning a couple of times-- and I knew
exactly what I was doing each time.

I know what YOU are doing all the time: gossiping.

Frank "frank writes:
On 3/31/2021 11:50 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Frank "frank writes:
On 3/31/2021 9:53 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...

I'm half in the market for a new car again and I looked at the Hondas- a
brand I've owned many of over the years and usually liked a lot.

They've improved the safety electronics- but have done away with 6
cylinder sedans- replacing them with 4 cylinder turbo engines. And as
with any new engine/car design, their reliability has suffered the last
couple of years- so Honda is still on my no-fly list :-(




A few years ago I was looking at new cars and wanted the horse power of
the V6. HOnda only had a 4 with the turbo. I just thought the turbo
was something else not needed to give trouble ,so went with the Toyota
with out even going to the Honda dealer to look at a car.

Would have looked at the Nissan, but my son had bought one a few years
back and the transmission went out at about 130,000. Found out that
that was a bad design and they had extended the warrenty to 120,000
miles. As it was just slightly over that, Nissan would not repair it
for free and cost my son about $ 4000 to get it repaired.



I'd avoid a turbo too, apparently expensive to fix if there is a problem
and puts more stress on a small engine wearing it out.

Nissan's were good up to maybe early 2,000's when Renault joined them
and they started to go downhill.

Upon what do you base that assertion? How many, and what model,
Nissan vehicles have you driven?

My experience with Nissan (and Datsun) has been 100% positive with
no significant issues on three vehicles ('81 810 Maxima, '98 I30 and '12 M37).


You can look it up yourself.

In other words, you can't support your assertion. Noted.

"Frank" "frank wrote in message
...
On 3/31/2021 11:50 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Frank "frank writes:
On 3/31/2021 9:53 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...

I'm half in the market for a new car again and I looked at the Hondas-
a
brand I've owned many of over the years and usually liked a lot.

They've improved the safety electronics- but have done away with 6
cylinder sedans- replacing them with 4 cylinder turbo engines. And as
with any new engine/car design, their reliability has suffered the
last
couple of years- so Honda is still on my no-fly list :-(




A few years ago I was looking at new cars and wanted the horse power of
the V6. HOnda only had a 4 with the turbo. I just thought the turbo
was something else not needed to give trouble ,so went with the Toyota
with out even going to the Honda dealer to look at a car.

Would have looked at the Nissan, but my son had bought one a few years
back and the transmission went out at about 130,000. Found out that
that was a bad design and they had extended the warrenty to 120,000
miles. As it was just slightly over that, Nissan would not repair it
for free and cost my son about $ 4000 to get it repaired.



I'd avoid a turbo too, apparently expensive to fix if there is a problem
and puts more stress on a small engine wearing it out.

Nissan's were good up to maybe early 2,000's when Renault joined them
and they started to go downhill.

Upon what do you base that assertion? How many, and what model,
Nissan vehicles have you driven?

My experience with Nissan (and Datsun) has been 100% positive with
no significant issues on three vehicles ('81 810 Maxima, '98 I30 and '12
M37).


You can look it up yourself. I only had one way pre-2000 and it ran like
a top. I got rid of it when it needed joint boots and cost of repair
approached book value.

The book value is irrelevant to that choice.

On Thu, 1 Apr 2021 05:18:11 +1100, %%, better known as cantankerous trolling
senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH troll****

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 86-year-old senile Australian
cretin's pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On 3/31/21 9:53 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...

I'm half in the market for a new car again and I looked at the Hondas- a
brand I've owned many of over the years and usually liked a lot.

They've improved the safety electronics- but have done away with 6
cylinder sedans- replacing them with 4 cylinder turbo engines. And as
with any new engine/car design, their reliability has suffered the last
couple of years- so Honda is still on my no-fly list :-(




A few years ago I was looking at new cars and wanted the horse power of
the V6. HOnda only had a 4 with the turbo. I just thought the turbo
was something else not needed to give trouble ,so went with the Toyota
with out even going to the Honda dealer to look at a car.

Would have looked at the Nissan, but my son had bought one a few years
back and the transmission went out at about 130,000. Found out that
that was a bad design and they had extended the warrenty to 120,000
miles. As it was just slightly over that, Nissan would not repair it
for free and cost my son about $ 4000 to get it repaired.


Boy, I'd think long and hard before making a $4,000 repair on a car with
130,000 miles!

--
Why is it that the people who want more government control over your
life are the same ones who want you to be disarmed?

On 3/31/21 9:57 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 03/31/2021 06:30 AM, Wade Garrett wrote:
They've improved the safety electronics- but have done away with 6
cylinder sedans- replacing them with 4 cylinder turbo engines. And as
with any new engine/car design, their reliability has suffered the last
couple of years- so Honda is still on my no-fly list :-(

Are they using CVT's? That's the show stopper for me, not safety
electronics. I'll admit the auto-dimming headlights seem to work well.
I've triggered the collision warning a couple of times-- and I knew
exactly what I was doing each time. The backuo camera is mildly useful.
I wouldn't wnt to run over the cat.


The '21 Accord 1.5L turbo has a CVT; don't know about the 2.0L.

My wife's Subaru has a CVT. You sort of get used to it buzzing on
acceleration (which is surprisingly strong) but I really miss the kick-down.

--
Guns have only two enemies; rust and liberal politicians.

On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 08:30:34 -0400, Wade Garrett posted for all of us to
digest...

Every time a bird craps on my car, I sit on the front porch eating a
plate of wings to show them what I'm capable of.


No crap? So that's what you think of them? ;-)

--
Tekkie

In article , says...

Boy, I'd think long and hard before making a $4,000 repair on a car with
130,000 miles!




That car was bought new and he was still making payments on it. I
forgot how old it was,but probably around 5 years old. Had it been me,
I may have told them to come and get that piece of junk and just let it
go back. He was probably worried about it messing up his credit. I am
now in the shape that credit score does not matter to me, but it is over
800 anyway. I did buy 2 new cars lately, one a few years back and
financed it to the max at 0 % and another about 6 months ago and
financed it for about 4 % for the max. Could have paid cash for
them,but would have cost a lot in the long run if I had taken the money
from where it is doing well in the stock market.


I had a Toyota that the recommended timing belt change was 60,000 if I
remember correctly. I was getting ready to trade for a new one and had
about 80,000 miles on the belt. One dealer was going to allow me $ 500
for the trade in value (car had over 190,000 miles on it). Thought the
cost of the belt replacement was around that , so decided to drive it
and chance the belt holding when I had about 70,000 miles on it. I did
keep the car and sold it to someone where I worked that could replace
the belt himself. I was honest and told him the belt was about 20,000
over due and to replace it the first thing. I let him have it for the
$ 500 the dealer said he would allow me.

On 3/31/2021 2:18 PM, %% wrote:


"Frank" "frank wrote in message
...
On 3/31/2021 11:50 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Frank "frank writes:
On 3/31/2021 9:53 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...

I'm half in the market for a new car again and I looked at the
Hondas- a
brand I've owned many of over the years and usually liked a lot.

They've improved the safety electronics- but have done away with 6
cylinder sedans- replacing them with 4 cylinder turbo engines. And as
with any new engine/car design, their reliability has suffered the
last
couple of years- so Honda is still on my no-fly list :-(




A few years ago I was looking at new cars and wanted the horse
power of
the V6.Â* HOnda only had a 4 with the turbo.Â* I just thought the turbo
was something else not needed to give trouble ,so went with the Toyota
with out even going to the Honda dealer to look at a car.

Would have looked at the Nissan, but my son had bought one a few years
back and the transmission went out at about 130,000.Â* Found out that
that was a bad design and they had extended the warrenty to 120,000
miles.Â* As it was just slightly over that, Nissan would not repair it
for free and cost my son about $ 4000 to get it repaired.



I'd avoid a turbo too, apparently expensive to fix if there is a
problem
and puts more stress on a small engine wearing it out.

Nissan's were good up to maybe early 2,000's when Renault joined them
and they started to go downhill.

Upon what do you base that assertion?Â* How many, and what model,
Nissan vehicles have you driven?

My experience with Nissan (and Datsun) has been 100% positive with
no significant issues on three vehicles ('81 810 Maxima, '98 I30 and
'12 M37).


You can look it up yourself.Â* I only had one way pre-2000 and it ran
like a top.Â* I got rid of it when it needed joint boots and cost of
repair approached book value.

The book value is irrelevant to that choice.

Book at the time was $1,000. If you start doing thousand dollar repairs
and it gets wrecked you will only get book value. It had nearly been
wrecked the year before when a drunken women hit it and 3 other cars
parked in shopping center parking lot. Also car was over 10 years old
and would have other stuff needing fixing.

"Frank" "frank wrote in message
...
On 3/31/2021 2:18 PM, %% wrote:


"Frank" "frank wrote in message
...
On 3/31/2021 11:50 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Frank "frank writes:
On 3/31/2021 9:53 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...

I'm half in the market for a new car again and I looked at the
Hondas- a
brand I've owned many of over the years and usually liked a lot.

They've improved the safety electronics- but have done away with 6
cylinder sedans- replacing them with 4 cylinder turbo engines. And
as
with any new engine/car design, their reliability has suffered the
last
couple of years- so Honda is still on my no-fly list :-(




A few years ago I was looking at new cars and wanted the horse power
of
the V6. HOnda only had a 4 with the turbo. I just thought the turbo
was something else not needed to give trouble ,so went with the
Toyota
with out even going to the Honda dealer to look at a car.

Would have looked at the Nissan, but my son had bought one a few
years
back and the transmission went out at about 130,000. Found out that
that was a bad design and they had extended the warrenty to 120,000
miles. As it was just slightly over that, Nissan would not repair it
for free and cost my son about $ 4000 to get it repaired.



I'd avoid a turbo too, apparently expensive to fix if there is a
problem
and puts more stress on a small engine wearing it out.

Nissan's were good up to maybe early 2,000's when Renault joined them
and they started to go downhill.

Upon what do you base that assertion? How many, and what model,
Nissan vehicles have you driven?

My experience with Nissan (and Datsun) has been 100% positive with
no significant issues on three vehicles ('81 810 Maxima, '98 I30 and
'12 M37).


You can look it up yourself. I only had one way pre-2000 and it ran
like a top. I got rid of it when it needed joint boots and cost of
repair approached book value.

The book value is irrelevant to that choice.

Book at the time was $1,000. If you start doing thousand dollar repairs
and it gets wrecked you will only get book value.

Still makes no sense to **** lots more against the wall on a replacement.

It had nearly been wrecked the year before when a drunken women hit it and
3 other cars parked in shopping center parking lot. Also car was over 10
years old and would have other stuff needing fixing.

Only if its a steaming turd with wheels in the first place.