On 26-03-2021 18:10 Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Oh, I understand but conditions vary too.

You don't think manufacturers took all that into account when they often
recommended a filter every 2nd oil change under normal driving conditions?

Short trips in a very cold climate versus highway driving in mild temperatures.
Oil should really be tested and not just changed at some magic interval of one
size fits all.

I don't disagree on having your oil sent out after the fact for testing.

I can't see the inside of that cartridge filter, nor can I do a
flow test.

I disagree you can't see inside that cartridge filter since teardowns exist.
(1) Why do you think it has a pleated filter & which are the best?
(2) Why do you think it has an antidrainback valve & which is best?
(3) Why do you think it has an overpressure valve & which is best?
(4) Why do you think it has a gasket for engine mating & which is best?
(5) Why do you think it has many holes around the outside & which are best?

Not just about money too.

You had not yet mentioned a single decision that wasn't only about money.
I mentioned the specifications, OEM recommendations and the tear downs.

Clearly we think differently.

You seem to only care about money and convenience (and that's OK).
I very much care about what it is that I'm trying to accomplish.

I'm under the car, filter is right there, two
minutes and done. I'm certainly not going with an interval other than a
change time.

Most people are like you in that they don't understand what it is they buy.
They just replace it without thinking using any interval they feel like.
They probably don't even read the owners manual to see what it says.

And that's OK.
You can replace your oil filter on any interval you feel like doing so.

But I'm going to base my replacement on understanding what the filter does.
And I'm also going to base it on understanding what the manufacturer says.
And I'm going to base my replacement on choosing good filters to start with.

Having said that you're welcome to replace yours on any interval you like.
But if you ask me how I choose my interval then don't only bring up money.

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 18:49:56 +0530, mike
wrote:

On 26-03-2021 02:25 AMuzi wrote:

It's vestigial from the 1950s when oil and labor were cheap
and filters were expensive. No good reason now, certainly
not any technical reason. I changed to oil with new filter
every 3K miles in the 1970s.

I already explained in great detail that it's not at all about money.
It's about design and function.

Most people want a simple answer to everything which money is to them.
But not everything is a simple dollars to dollars decision like you claimed.

If all you care about is money then knowing that both the oil filter and the
oil are cheap you're welcome to throw away both at the same interval which
is why I said it's up to you.

But stop saying it's about money when that's only how YOU think.
The manufacturers think differently than you think.

For them it's about engineering.

Many manufacturers recommend oil filter intervals different than oil.
https://knowhow.napaonline.com/how-m...l-filter-last/

If you disagree with the manufacturer then you should answer this question:
Does the oil filter always fail at the exact same rate as does the oil?
I keep seeing references to Many manufacturers recommend oil filter
intervals different than oil. on many different websites, yet I have
not seen that recommendation in an owner's manual
The only specific recommendations I have seen referenced are on Honda
in the USA.
Toyota has always recommended oil and filter together Kia and Hyundai
do to. All if my Fords and Chryslers have too - so who are the "many
manufacturers"??

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 19:56:09 +0530, mike
wrote:

On 26-03-2021 19:35 Ed Pawlowski wrote:

If filters were $100 it would make some sense to wait.
For 10 bucks, give me a new one.

I explained in patient detail that oil filters don't wear at the same rate.
And yet you still make all your decisions based only on dollar bills.

Trust me when I say that I fully & completely understand how you think.
Many people are exactly like you are and in fact perhaps most people are.

They don't care to understand the design & engineering of the product.
They don't understand why the manufacturer recommends the intervals they do.
They don't understand that oil wears differently than do the oil filters.


And YOU - supposedly an engineer, do not understand that "oil" does
not "wear out". The additive packagegets depleated and the oil gets
dirty. It sometimes gets diluted with fuel. The job of the filter is
to catch the solid contaminants. The filter (or the engine -
depending on the design) has a "bypass" that opens when the pressure
across the filter medium excedes a set limit. When it bypasses, the
oil is no longer filtered. PARTICULARLY with direct ignition engines
there can be a lot of fine carbon deposited in the oil -and the better
the filter you hve the faster it will get restricted becauseit catches
more of the "fines". You have NO WAY to know how close to "full" the
filter is and what the pressure differential across the filter is.
Unless the filter capacity is deliberately over-engineered for some
reason - perhaps to convince buyers they are "saving money" buying
that brand because they only need to change the filter every second
time - it is "false economy" to change the filter every seconf time.

In actualfact - using synthetic oil it would make MORE SENSE to change
the filter half way through the extended drain interval for the
"superior" oil.

The "recommendations" in the manual are "minimum required service" to
get your vehicle through warranty

More to the important point they don't care or even try to understand.
It's hard for them to even try to understand not everything is about money.

ANd harder for YOU to understand the "real world" it appears
Like you they make all their decisions in their life based only on money.
Money is the only thing they understand because it's easy to understand.

And that's OK.
Replacing parts often and well before they need to be replaced works too.
You can change your oil filter for any reason and interval you want to.
Asn you are free to do whatever your super sophisticated "mensa" mind
instructs you to do.

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 04:59:20 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:

On Thursday, March 25, 2021 at 11:55:39 PM UTC-4, wrote:

Other than that I put gas in it and drive. I am just waiting for it to
blow up. I will take the tags and let the guy at AAA who comes to get
me have it. He can drop me off at a rental car place.

The advice somebody gave me when I was struggling with an old Volvo repair:

Put a screwdriver and bicycle in the back seat. When it dies take the tags and ride home and forget it.

I have a screwdriver in the glove compartment but I am too polite to
leave the car on the side of the road. I have AAA ;-)

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 18:49:56 +0530, mike
wrote:

On 26-03-2021 02:25 AMuzi wrote:

It's vestigial from the 1950s when oil and labor were cheap
and filters were expensive. No good reason now, certainly
not any technical reason. I changed to oil with new filter
every 3K miles in the 1970s.

I already explained in great detail that it's not at all about money.
It's about design and function.

Most people want a simple answer to everything which money is to them.
But not everything is a simple dollars to dollars decision like you claimed.

If all you care about is money then knowing that both the oil filter and the
oil are cheap you're welcome to throw away both at the same interval which
is why I said it's up to you.

But stop saying it's about money when that's only how YOU think.
The manufacturers think differently than you think.

For them it's about engineering.

Many manufacturers recommend oil filter intervals different than oil.
https://knowhow.napaonline.com/how-m...l-filter-last/

If you disagree with the manufacturer then you should answer this question:
Does the oil filter always fail at the exact same rate as does the oil?

Bear in mind, the manufacturer would be perfectly happy if the car
blew up the day after the warranty expired. Then you would have to buy
another one. I am sure the intervals for old cars should be shorter
than a new one if oil contamination was your main issue. More stuff
will get by the rings for one thing.
OTOH people who always drive old cars don't really care.

"mike" wrote in message
...
On 26-03-2021 02:25 AMuzi wrote:

It's vestigial from the 1950s when oil and labor were cheap and filters
were expensive. No good reason now, certainly not any technical reason. I
changed to oil with new filter every 3K miles in the 1970s.

I already explained in great detail that it's not at all about money.
It's about design and function.

Most people want a simple answer to everything which money is to them.
But not everything is a simple dollars to dollars decision like you
claimed.

If all you care about is money then knowing that both the oil filter and
the
oil are cheap you're welcome to throw away both at the same interval which
is why I said it's up to you.

But stop saying it's about money when that's only how YOU think.
The manufacturers think differently than you think.

For them it's about engineering.

Many manufacturers recommend oil filter intervals different than oil.
https://knowhow.napaonline.com/how-m...l-filter-last/

If you disagree with the manufacturer then you should answer this
question:
Does the oil filter always fail at the exact same rate as does the oil?

Its not fail, its about how they age.

In article , mike wrote:
On 26-03-2021 01:48 Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Can you see and measure how well the filter is working?

Why do you think many manufacturers recommend a filter every 2nd oil change?
https://knowhow.napaonline.com/how-o...ur-oil-filter/

Because they did their testing on new engines without a lotm of blowby.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 26-03-2021 19:05 wrote:

Bear in mind, the manufacturer would be perfectly happy if the car
blew up the day after the warranty expired. Then you would have to buy
another one. I am sure the intervals for old cars should be shorter
than a new one if oil contamination was your main issue. More stuff
will get by the rings for one thing.
OTOH people who always drive old cars don't really care.

Even so for anyone to claim oil filters wear at exactly the same rate the
oil wears is just proving they don't understand there are oils that are
"longer lasting" and there are filters that are "longer lasting" (just as
their are oils and filters that are shorter lasting and conditions matter).

They're completely different things (oil & filters) with different specs.
And they're made completely differently and they also wear differently.

Every manufacturer has a maintenance table for when to check/change things.
In addition, each manufacturer of oil & filters does things differently.

There are a lot of oil specs out there to consider
SAE 0W20, 0W30, 0W40, 5W30, 5W40, 10W30, 10W40, 15W50
ACEA A1/B1, A5/B5, A3/B4 A5/B5-10, A5/B5-12
API SN, SN Plus, SN-RC, SM, SL, SP
BMW LL-01
Chrysler MS 6395
FIAT 9.55535-H2, FIAT 9.55535-M2, FIAT 9.55535-N2
Ford WSS-M2C153-H, WSS-M2C929-A, WSS-M2C930-A, WSS-M2C945-A, WSS-M2C946-A,
WSS-M2C947-A
GM-Opel LL B-025
GM 4718M, 6094M, LL-A-025, dexos1 Gen 2, Gen 3
Honda HTO-06
ILSAC GF-5, GF-4, GF-3
MB-Approval 229.5
Porsche A40
Renault RN0700, RN0710
VW 502 00 - 505 00

And there are a lot of oil filter teardowns where I've dremeled open many of
my own oil filters & I even used to send out my oil for testing years ago.

If you ask me what I base my oil filter change intervals on I'm going to
answer that I base intervals on things other than just money & convenience.
(1) I look at filter pleating, surface area, micron spec, edge glue & seam
(2) I look at the size and thickness & antidrainback valve material
(3) I especially check the type of overpressure valve (some don't exist!)
(4) I pick at the mating gasket to see if it tends to easily fall off
(5) I check the inlet holes for the number and overall diameter
(6) I like to look for the mating threads machined from the outside in
(7) I like filter cans that are 20 & 30 thou rather than 15 thousandths
(8) I look at the type of oil that I'm putting in and the type of driving

It's fine for him to claim that he only cares about money & convenience.
He can change his oil filter on any interval he wants and that's OK with me.

But if he asks me why I follow the manufacturer recommendations then he's
going to get more of an answer than just money & convenience specifically
because neither is what I use to determine my oil filter change interval.

On 26-03-2021 23:11 mike wrote:

(1) I look at filter pleating, surface area, micron spec, edge glue & seam
(2) I look at the size and thickness & antidrainback valve material
(3) I especially check the type of overpressure valve (some don't exist!)
(4) I pick at the mating gasket to see if it tends to easily fall off
(5) I check the inlet holes for the number and overall diameter
(6) I like to look for the mating threads machined from the outside in
(7) I like filter cans that are 20 & 30 thou rather than 15 thousandths
(8) I look at the type of oil that I'm putting in and the type of driving

In that off hand list I forgot to mention what I found the first time I tore
apart a $15 Fram filter from AutoZone (which had the worst pleating ever!)

*****ty cardboard end plates*

Far less expensive oil filters have steel end plates and synthetic pleating
without visible gaps at the ends and a with a long steel clamp at the seam!

On 3/26/2021 12:32 PM, mike wrote:

I can't see the inside of that cartridge filter, nor can I do a flow
test.

I disagree you can't see inside that cartridge filter since teardowns
exist.
(1) Why do you think it has a pleated filter & which are the best?
(2) Why do you think it has an antidrainback valve & which is best?
(3) Why do you think it has an overpressure valve & which is best?
(4) Why do you think it has a gasket for engine mating & which is best?
(5) Why do you think it has many holes around the outside & which are best?

But none of that applies to the filter in my car for the past 5000
miles. Sure, I can buy what seems best but that has nothing to do with
the present condition of my car as I change the oil today. May have
been great for 4900 miles but will it be good for the next couple of
thousand?



Not just about money too.

You had not yet mentioned a single decision that wasn't only about money.
I mentioned the specifications, OEM recommendations and the tear downs.

Clearly we think differently.

You seem to only care about money and convenience (and that's OK).
I very much care about what it is that I'm trying to accomplish.

I care about making my car last. Even a cheap car is a hefty investment
and while I abhor waste, I do believe in proper maintenance. In the
time of ownership I will get 10 oil changes or in your case, an extra 5
filters. About $50 extra on a car I spent $50k on. Keeps my warranty
and peace of mind.



I'm under the car, filter is right there, two minutes and done.Â* I'm
certainly not going with an interval other than a change time.

Most people are like you in that they don't understand what it is they buy.
They just replace it without thinking using any interval they feel like.
They probably don't even read the owners manual to see what it says.

And that's OK.
You can replace your oil filter on any interval you feel like doing so.

But I'm going to base my replacement on understanding what the filter does.
And I'm also going to base it on understanding what the manufacturer says.
And I'm going to base my replacement on choosing good filters to start
with.

Having said that you're welcome to replace yours on any interval you like.
But if you ask me how I choose my interval then don't only bring up money.

Yeah, say what you want but you bring up money every time. Seems like
you want to save it and that's fine too. My engine has a 100k warranty
and even if I don't keep the car that long the next owner gets benefit.
Owners manual says change the filter.

On 3/26/2021 12:34 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:

The manufacturers think differently than you think.

For them it's about engineering.

Many manufacturers recommend oil filter intervals different than oil.
https://knowhow.napaonline.com/how-m...l-filter-last/

If you disagree with the manufacturer then you should answer this question:
Does the oil filter always fail at the exact same rate as does the oil?
I keep seeing references to Many manufacturers recommend oil filter
intervals different than oil. on many different websites, yet I have
not seen that recommendation in an owner's manual
The only specific recommendations I have seen referenced are on Honda
in the USA.
Toyota has always recommended oil and filter together Kia and Hyundai
do to. All if my Fords and Chryslers have too - so who are the "many
manufacturers"??


Car manufacturers watch the pennies. I have a Genesis and they come
with 3 years of maintenance. At each of the oil changes I had they
changed the filter. If they said to skip it the argument would have
more validity. They say change and pay for it so I will too not that I
passed the three years and pay.

On 26-03-2021 22:04 Clare Snyder wrote:

I keep seeing references to Many manufacturers recommend oil filter
intervals different than oil. on many different websites, yet I have
not seen that recommendation in an owner's manual
The only specific recommendations I have seen referenced are on Honda
in the USA.
Toyota has always recommended oil and filter together Kia and Hyundai
do to. All if my Fords and Chryslers have too - so who are the "many
manufacturers"??

How many owners manuals do NOT specify the oil change volume both with the
oil filter also being changed and the oil change volume without the filter?

How many owners manuals do NOT specify different maintenance intervals based
on the type of service (for example the severity of driving conditions such
as "dusty conditions" and/or the total number of accumulated time and/or
total number of accumulated miles)?

I have my 1990 Infiniti Q45 service manual in my hands at this very moment.

Page MA-5 shows a one to one oil change and filter interval while the very
next page MA-6 shows an "R" (for replace) on the oil filter every other oil
change and the air filter gets its "R" every fourth oil change interval
(the intervals being tabled under distance or time "whichever comes first").

I can check others but you must have seen similar in maintenance schedules.

On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 04:21:40 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Its not fail, its about how they age.

They fail with age, auto-contradicting senile asshole!

--
"Who or What is Rod Speed?

Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On 26-03-2021 22:21 Clare Snyder wrote:

And YOU - supposedly an engineer,

I'm a retired accountant. I've pushed paper my whole life.
And why would it matter what I did before Sarbanes Oxley?

I've been retired for a long time now and ready to move on.

The only thing that matters is what happens moving forward.
Unless I cooked the accounts receivables in the past which I didn't do.

Why do you bring up unrelated things for a simple oil question?

On 26-03-2021 23:32 Ed Pawlowski wrote:

I care about making my car last.
Even a cheap car is a hefty investment

I follow the guidelines in the service manual that came with the car.

Following that book I've been driving my 1990 as my DD but since you're
worried I will tell you that for insurance against attacks by tigers
I've also carried an amethyst talisman in the trunk next to the manual.

Haven't been attacked by a tiger yet so like you say it must be working.

Other than replacing the fuel controller and fuel pump from that same trunk
a few times already and having to jack up the engine in front to replace the
plugs that Q45 still works fine using just the maintenance service interval
recommendations of an oil filter every other oil change as specified in that
three inch thick service manual that came in the trunk with every vehicle
sold and which stows neatly next to the talisman to ward off evil spirits.

Haven't had to replace the engine yet so like you say it must be working.

On 26-03-2021 22:02 Clare Snyder wrote:

OK Arlen - who are the "many manufacturers"? Honda is only one.

Why don't you believe what is found in many service manuals and what I have
in my hands right now? I have other service manuals but why would I even
look in my other service manuals if you won't believe what I am telling you
to your face is in my 1990 Q45 service manual (one came with every car).

BTW, don't know who Arlin is but do you want me to take a photograph of my
three inch thick green paperback service manual which came with my 1990 Q45?

Tell me where to upload it for you and I'll upload for you page MA-6 which
shows a "R" replacement for the oil change every service interval and an "R"
replacement for the oil filter every other service interval and an "R"
replacment (with "I" inspections in between) for the air filter every fourth
service interval (based on kilometers/miles and/or months, whichever comes
first).

But why don't you first look up what you make up before you spew it anyways?

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:02:03 -0400, Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us to
digest...


On 3/26/2021 12:32 PM, mike wrote:

I can't see the inside of that cartridge filter, nor can I do a flow
test.

I disagree you can't see inside that cartridge filter since teardowns
exist.
(1) Why do you think it has a pleated filter & which are the best?
(2) Why do you think it has an antidrainback valve & which is best?
(3) Why do you think it has an overpressure valve & which is best?
(4) Why do you think it has a gasket for engine mating & which is best?
(5) Why do you think it has many holes around the outside & which are best?

But none of that applies to the filter in my car for the past 5000
miles. Sure, I can buy what seems best but that has nothing to do with
the present condition of my car as I change the oil today. May have
been great for 4900 miles but will it be good for the next couple of
thousand?



Not just about money too.

You had not yet mentioned a single decision that wasn't only about money.
I mentioned the specifications, OEM recommendations and the tear downs.

Clearly we think differently.

You seem to only care about money and convenience (and that's OK).
I very much care about what it is that I'm trying to accomplish.

I care about making my car last. Even a cheap car is a hefty investment
and while I abhor waste, I do believe in proper maintenance. In the
time of ownership I will get 10 oil changes or in your case, an extra 5
filters. About $50 extra on a car I spent $50k on. Keeps my warranty
and peace of mind.



I'm under the car, filter is right there, two minutes and done.* I'm
certainly not going with an interval other than a change time.

Most people are like you in that they don't understand what it is they buy.
They just replace it without thinking using any interval they feel like.
They probably don't even read the owners manual to see what it says.

And that's OK.
You can replace your oil filter on any interval you feel like doing so.

But I'm going to base my replacement on understanding what the filter does.
And I'm also going to base it on understanding what the manufacturer says.
And I'm going to base my replacement on choosing good filters to start
with.

Having said that you're welcome to replace yours on any interval you like.
But if you ask me how I choose my interval then don't only bring up money.

Yeah, say what you want but you bring up money every time. Seems like
you want to save it and that's fine too. My engine has a 100k warranty
and even if I don't keep the car that long the next owner gets benefit.
Owners manual says change the filter.

You realize you are talking with Arlen Holder...

--
Tekkie

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 23:18:12 +0530, mike posted for all of us to digest...


On 26-03-2021 23:11 mike wrote:

(1) I look at filter pleating, surface area, micron spec, edge glue & seam
(2) I look at the size and thickness & antidrainback valve material
(3) I especially check the type of overpressure valve (some don't exist!)
(4) I pick at the mating gasket to see if it tends to easily fall off
(5) I check the inlet holes for the number and overall diameter
(6) I like to look for the mating threads machined from the outside in
(7) I like filter cans that are 20 & 30 thou rather than 15 thousandths
(8) I look at the type of oil that I'm putting in and the type of driving

In that off hand list I forgot to mention what I found the first time I tore
apart a $15 Fram filter from AutoZone (which had the worst pleating ever!)

*****ty cardboard end plates*

Far less expensive oil filters have steel end plates and synthetic pleating
without visible gaps at the ends and a with a long steel clamp at the seam!

You have been watching U tube vids. Stale ones. How often do you change the saw
on the Dremel? Does that put metal shavings in the oil?

Arlen won't see this because he has me kill-filed, thankfully.

--
Tekkie

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 04:59:20 -0700 (PDT), TimR posted for all of us to
digest...


On Thursday, March 25, 2021 at 11:55:39 PM UTC-4, wrote:

Other than that I put gas in it and drive. I am just waiting for it to
blow up. I will take the tags and let the guy at AAA who comes to get
me have it. He can drop me off at a rental car place.

The advice somebody gave me when I was struggling with an old Volvo repair:

Put a screwdriver and bicycle in the back seat. When it dies take the tags and ride home and forget it.

Ha Ha Ha I like that!

--
Tekkie

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 00:03:05 -0400, posted for all of us to
digest...


On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 20:49:56 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 03/25/2021 12:26 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/25/2021 1:05 PM, mike wrote:


(My personal opinion is twice a year for dino & once a year for synth).
(My personal opinion is a filter change roughly about once a year.)

For me the motor oil buying choice is simple.
1. Price (about $1.50/qt for good dino juice, about twice that for synth)
2. Quality (any API that meets or exceeds the spec in the owners manual)
3. Viscosity (any SAE range that meets the spec in the owners manual)

In practice you'd have to go out of your way to find an oil that doesn't
meet the spec in the owners manual so it eventually boils down to price.

Price changes over time but currently it's $2.50/qt for Costco fully
synthetic (API SP, SAE 5W30, Dexos 1 gen 2) in sets of two five quart
jugs.

It's harder to find a spec for oil filters but like oil it matters
less when
you change often (defined by me as being about yearly which is ~12K
miles).

I've seen many oil filter teardowns so I avoid Fram and STP oil
filters and
I know that only a few manufacturers likely make most oil filters anyways
and I do know that the Napa Gold (also Wix) are usually the best in those
teardowns and that the Purloators at Toyota turn out to be reasonably
good
too (as do the AC Delcos).

The Walmart K&N, SuperTech, Mobil 1 and Fram often come out
differentially
as do the Bosch at times.

Mostly I look for 30um at 99% or even 20 micron if I can find it but
not all
boxes say and there's no spec that I know of for oil filters like
there is
for oil that help compare them (they're all good enough for my cars
except
maybe Fram).

If you know of a spec that's printed on all oil filter boxes for
comparison
sake like there is for oil that would be helpful for sure.

Pretty much agree with your opinion. With a turbo, I'd go with
synthetic as they are subject to some high RPM.

No matter what you or I think or have experienced, there is always the
guy that says "my car runs a lot smoother or Brand Y over Brand X."

In the motorcycle forums the usual reply is 'Sweet Jesus! Another
frigging oil thread!'

Boat forums too. You wouldn't believe how many people are happy to pay
Yamaha $8-9 a quart for Yamalube, like there is a refinery outside
Yokohama specially blending motor oil for them.
The owners book specifically says any decent motor oil is fine but
they "recommend" Yamalube.
ConAgra "recommends" you put Hunts ketchup on your Armour hot dogs too
but it won't really make them taste any better.

Who recommends AstroGlide?

--
Tekkie

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 18:49:56 +0530, mike wrote:

On 26-03-2021 02:25 AMuzi wrote:

It's vestigial from the 1950s when oil and labor were cheap
and filters were expensive. No good reason now, certainly
not any technical reason. I changed to oil with new filter
every 3K miles in the 1970s.

I already explained in great detail that it's not at all about money.
It's about design and function.

Most people want a simple answer to everything which money is to them.
But not everything is a simple dollars to dollars decision like you claimed.

If all you care about is money then knowing that both the oil filter and the
oil are cheap you're welcome to throw away both at the same interval which
is why I said it's up to you.

But stop saying it's about money when that's only how YOU think.
The manufacturers think differently than you think.

For them it's about engineering.

Many manufacturers recommend oil filter intervals different than oil.
https://knowhow.napaonline.com/how-m...l-filter-last/

If you disagree with the manufacturer then you should answer this question:
Does the oil filter always fail at the exact same rate as does the oil?

Remember the old oil filter trick where you just use a roll of toilet
paper? I thought I'd never see that again but it turned up on an episode of
Garage Squad.

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 20:50:41 -0600, rbowman posted for all of us to digest...


On 03/25/2021 02:35 PM, Tekkie? wrote:

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 15:01:50 -0500, Jim Joyce posted for all of us to digest...


On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 22:35:05 +0530, mike wrote:

On 25-03-2021 13:08 wrote:

Once it gets in the bottle it is the same as far as API is concerned.

I agree with you that oil is a commodity which people obsess about.
Mostly because advertisers want to give people something to obsess about.

Every brand is different but those differences won't matter much to us.

What matters mostly is how often we change it (IMHO).
Which itself matters mostly based on our weather & driving patterns (IMHO).

And even that is subject to a lot of personal opinion (IMHO).
Everyone makes their own assessment of what to use & when to change (IMHO).

(My personal opinion is twice a year for dino & once a year for synth).
(My personal opinion is a filter change roughly about once a year.)

I'm curious. If you're going to go to the trouble of changing the oil twice
a year, why not change the filter twice a year, as in, doing both at the
same time? It seems like only a small increment of extra work and expense.

How dare you question Arlen?


I find it much easier to filter him...

Pleated or non-pleated? Cardboard or steel end-caps? He filter level is 0.

--
Tekkie

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 18:50:44 +0530, mike wrote:

On 26-03-2021 01:48 Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Can you see and measure how well the filter is working?

Why do you think many manufacturers recommend a filter every 2nd oil change?
https://knowhow.napaonline.com/how-o...ur-oil-filter/

Was that the link that you intended?

From that article:
The cheapest insurance for your car’s engine is frequent oil changes — with
a new filter at every oil change. That prevents contamination of your new,
clean oil from anything that might pass out of your old filter and ensures
that new oil is as efficient as it can be in its job of lubricating engine
parts, reducing wear and tear, and keeping operating temperatures in a
healthy range.

If you’re wondering how often you should change your oil filter, keep
things simple by changing your oil filter every time you change your engine
oil.
***

Looks like it's a new filter at every oil change. Seems simple enough.

"Tekkie©" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:02:03 -0400, Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us to
digest...


On 3/26/2021 12:32 PM, mike wrote:

I can't see the inside of that cartridge filter, nor can I do a flow
test.

I disagree you can't see inside that cartridge filter since teardowns
exist.
(1) Why do you think it has a pleated filter & which are the best?
(2) Why do you think it has an antidrainback valve & which is best?
(3) Why do you think it has an overpressure valve & which is best?
(4) Why do you think it has a gasket for engine mating & which is best?
(5) Why do you think it has many holes around the outside & which are
best?

But none of that applies to the filter in my car for the past 5000
miles. Sure, I can buy what seems best but that has nothing to do with
the present condition of my car as I change the oil today. May have
been great for 4900 miles but will it be good for the next couple of
thousand?



Not just about money too.

You had not yet mentioned a single decision that wasn't only about
money.
I mentioned the specifications, OEM recommendations and the tear downs.

Clearly we think differently.

You seem to only care about money and convenience (and that's OK).
I very much care about what it is that I'm trying to accomplish.

I care about making my car last. Even a cheap car is a hefty investment
and while I abhor waste, I do believe in proper maintenance. In the
time of ownership I will get 10 oil changes or in your case, an extra 5
filters. About $50 extra on a car I spent $50k on. Keeps my warranty
and peace of mind.



I'm under the car, filter is right there, two minutes and done. I'm
certainly not going with an interval other than a change time.

Most people are like you in that they don't understand what it is they
buy.
They just replace it without thinking using any interval they feel
like.
They probably don't even read the owners manual to see what it says.

And that's OK.
You can replace your oil filter on any interval you feel like doing so.

But I'm going to base my replacement on understanding what the filter
does.
And I'm also going to base it on understanding what the manufacturer
says.
And I'm going to base my replacement on choosing good filters to start
with.

Having said that you're welcome to replace yours on any interval you
like.
But if you ask me how I choose my interval then don't only bring up
money.

Yeah, say what you want but you bring up money every time. Seems like
you want to save it and that's fine too. My engine has a 100k warranty
and even if I don't keep the car that long the next owner gets benefit.
Owners manual says change the filter.

You realize you are talking with Arlen Holder...

Don't believe that. Arlen was never an accountant.

On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 07:15:49 +1100, %%, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing the auto-contradicting senile cretin:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID:

On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 00:27:39 +0530, mike posted for all of us to digest...


On 26-03-2021 22:21 Clare Snyder wrote:

And YOU - supposedly an engineer,

I'm a retired accountant. I've pushed paper my whole life.
And why would it matter what I did before Sarbanes Oxley?

I've been retired for a long time now and ready to move on.

The only thing that matters is what happens moving forward.
Unless I cooked the accounts receivables in the past which I didn't do.

Why do you bring up unrelated things for a simple oil question?

Your books are cooked Arlen.

--
Tekkie

On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 07:15:49 +1100, %% posted for all of us to digest...


"Tekkie©" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:02:03 -0400, Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us to
digest...


On 3/26/2021 12:32 PM, mike wrote:

I can't see the inside of that cartridge filter, nor can I do a flow
test.

I disagree you can't see inside that cartridge filter since teardowns
exist.
(1) Why do you think it has a pleated filter & which are the best?
(2) Why do you think it has an antidrainback valve & which is best?
(3) Why do you think it has an overpressure valve & which is best?
(4) Why do you think it has a gasket for engine mating & which is best?
(5) Why do you think it has many holes around the outside & which are
best?

But none of that applies to the filter in my car for the past 5000
miles. Sure, I can buy what seems best but that has nothing to do with
the present condition of my car as I change the oil today. May have
been great for 4900 miles but will it be good for the next couple of
thousand?



Not just about money too.

You had not yet mentioned a single decision that wasn't only about
money.
I mentioned the specifications, OEM recommendations and the tear downs.

Clearly we think differently.

You seem to only care about money and convenience (and that's OK).
I very much care about what it is that I'm trying to accomplish.

I care about making my car last. Even a cheap car is a hefty investment
and while I abhor waste, I do believe in proper maintenance. In the
time of ownership I will get 10 oil changes or in your case, an extra 5
filters. About $50 extra on a car I spent $50k on. Keeps my warranty
and peace of mind.



I'm under the car, filter is right there, two minutes and done. I'm
certainly not going with an interval other than a change time.

Most people are like you in that they don't understand what it is they
buy.
They just replace it without thinking using any interval they feel
like.
They probably don't even read the owners manual to see what it says.

And that's OK.
You can replace your oil filter on any interval you feel like doing so.

But I'm going to base my replacement on understanding what the filter
does.
And I'm also going to base it on understanding what the manufacturer
says.
And I'm going to base my replacement on choosing good filters to start
with.

Having said that you're welcome to replace yours on any interval you
like.
But if you ask me how I choose my interval then don't only bring up
money.

Yeah, say what you want but you bring up money every time. Seems like
you want to save it and that's fine too. My engine has a 100k warranty
and even if I don't keep the car that long the next owner gets benefit.
Owners manual says change the filter.

You realize you are talking with Arlen Holder...

Don't believe that. Arlen was never an accountant.

Evil twin? It's Arlen he's whatever he wants to be to suit his purpose.

--
Tekkie

On 3/26/2021 2:18 PM, mike wrote:


How many owners manuals do NOT specify the oil change volume both with the
oil filter also being changed and the oil change volume without the filter?

How many owners manuals do NOT specify different maintenance intervals
based
on the type of service (for example the severity of driving conditions such
as "dusty conditions" and/or the total number of accumulated time and/or
total number of accumulated miles)?

I have my 1990 Infiniti Q45 service manual in my hands at this very moment.

Page MA-5 shows a one to one oil change and filter interval while the very
next page MA-6 shows an "R" (for replace) on the oil filter every other oil
change and the air filter gets its "R" every fourth oil change interval
(the intervals being tabled under distance or time "whichever comes
first").

I can check others but you must have seen similar in maintenance schedules.

I've owned 25-30 cars. Every one specified oil and filter so that is
what i do. If you have different, fine follow it. Simple.

On 3/26/2021 3:30 PM, Tekkie� wrote:

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:02:03 -0400, Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us to
digest...


On 3/26/2021 12:32 PM, mike wrote:

I can't see the inside of that cartridge filter, nor can I do a flow
test.

I disagree you can't see inside that cartridge filter since teardowns
exist.
(1) Why do you think it has a pleated filter & which are the best?
(2) Why do you think it has an antidrainback valve & which is best?
(3) Why do you think it has an overpressure valve & which is best?
(4) Why do you think it has a gasket for engine mating & which is best?
(5) Why do you think it has many holes around the outside & which are best?

But none of that applies to the filter in my car for the past 5000
miles. Sure, I can buy what seems best but that has nothing to do with
the present condition of my car as I change the oil today. May have
been great for 4900 miles but will it be good for the next couple of
thousand?



Not just about money too.

You had not yet mentioned a single decision that wasn't only about money.
I mentioned the specifications, OEM recommendations and the tear downs.

Clearly we think differently.

You seem to only care about money and convenience (and that's OK).
I very much care about what it is that I'm trying to accomplish.

I care about making my car last. Even a cheap car is a hefty investment
and while I abhor waste, I do believe in proper maintenance. In the
time of ownership I will get 10 oil changes or in your case, an extra 5
filters. About $50 extra on a car I spent $50k on. Keeps my warranty
and peace of mind.



I'm under the car, filter is right there, two minutes and done.Â* I'm
certainly not going with an interval other than a change time.

Most people are like you in that they don't understand what it is they buy.
They just replace it without thinking using any interval they feel like.
They probably don't even read the owners manual to see what it says.

And that's OK.
You can replace your oil filter on any interval you feel like doing so.

But I'm going to base my replacement on understanding what the filter does.
And I'm also going to base it on understanding what the manufacturer says.
And I'm going to base my replacement on choosing good filters to start
with.

Having said that you're welcome to replace yours on any interval you like.
But if you ask me how I choose my interval then don't only bring up money.

Yeah, say what you want but you bring up money every time. Seems like
you want to save it and that's fine too. My engine has a 100k warranty
and even if I don't keep the car that long the next owner gets benefit.
Owners manual says change the filter.

You realize you are talking with Arlen Holder...

Nah, Mike is polite. Arlen does not like at all and thinks I post under
at least five names.

In article , mike wrote:
On 26-03-2021 23:32 Ed Pawlowski wrote:

I care about making my car last.
Even a cheap car is a hefty investment

I follow the guidelines in the service manual that came with the car.

Following that book I've been driving my 1990 as my DD but since you're
worried I will tell you that for insurance against attacks by tigers
I've also carried an amethyst talisman in the trunk next to the manual.

No, you're not following the guidelines in the service manual. Because
if your car was made in 1990 then the oil described in the service manual
is no longer being manufactured.

Is the current oil better or worse than the oil that was originally
specified? It's likely much better. But you don't really know. All
you can do is drive and hope.

There are some cases in which the current oil formulations may be
problematic for older vehicles. 1990 isn't old enough to worry about,
but some people drive vehicles where they might worry.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 3/26/2021 3:47 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 18:49:56 +0530, mike wrote:

On 26-03-2021 02:25 AMuzi wrote:

It's vestigial from the 1950s when oil and labor were cheap
and filters were expensive. No good reason now, certainly
not any technical reason. I changed to oil with new filter
every 3K miles in the 1970s.

I already explained in great detail that it's not at all about money.
It's about design and function.

Most people want a simple answer to everything which money is to them.
But not everything is a simple dollars to dollars decision like you claimed.

If all you care about is money then knowing that both the oil filter and the
oil are cheap you're welcome to throw away both at the same interval which
is why I said it's up to you.

But stop saying it's about money when that's only how YOU think.
The manufacturers think differently than you think.

For them it's about engineering.

Many manufacturers recommend oil filter intervals different than oil.
https://knowhow.napaonline.com/how-m...l-filter-last/

If you disagree with the manufacturer then you should answer this question:
Does the oil filter always fail at the exact same rate as does the oil?

Remember the old oil filter trick where you just use a roll of toilet
paper? I thought I'd never see that again but it turned up on an episode of
Garage Squad.


Considering the TP shortage we had I'd not be surprised if people were
unraveling filters to use in its place.

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 16:33:09 -0400, Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us to
digest...


On 3/26/2021 3:30 PM, Tekkie? wrote:

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:02:03 -0400, Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us to
digest...


On 3/26/2021 12:32 PM, mike wrote:

I can't see the inside of that cartridge filter, nor can I do a flow
test.

I disagree you can't see inside that cartridge filter since teardowns
exist.
(1) Why do you think it has a pleated filter & which are the best?
(2) Why do you think it has an antidrainback valve & which is best?
(3) Why do you think it has an overpressure valve & which is best?
(4) Why do you think it has a gasket for engine mating & which is best?
(5) Why do you think it has many holes around the outside & which are best?

But none of that applies to the filter in my car for the past 5000
miles. Sure, I can buy what seems best but that has nothing to do with
the present condition of my car as I change the oil today. May have
been great for 4900 miles but will it be good for the next couple of
thousand?



Not just about money too.

You had not yet mentioned a single decision that wasn't only about money.
I mentioned the specifications, OEM recommendations and the tear downs.

Clearly we think differently.

You seem to only care about money and convenience (and that's OK).
I very much care about what it is that I'm trying to accomplish.

I care about making my car last. Even a cheap car is a hefty investment
and while I abhor waste, I do believe in proper maintenance. In the
time of ownership I will get 10 oil changes or in your case, an extra 5
filters. About $50 extra on a car I spent $50k on. Keeps my warranty
and peace of mind.



I'm under the car, filter is right there, two minutes and done.* I'm
certainly not going with an interval other than a change time.

Most people are like you in that they don't understand what it is they buy.
They just replace it without thinking using any interval they feel like.
They probably don't even read the owners manual to see what it says.

And that's OK.
You can replace your oil filter on any interval you feel like doing so.

But I'm going to base my replacement on understanding what the filter does.
And I'm also going to base it on understanding what the manufacturer says.
And I'm going to base my replacement on choosing good filters to start
with.

Having said that you're welcome to replace yours on any interval you like.
But if you ask me how I choose my interval then don't only bring up money.

Yeah, say what you want but you bring up money every time. Seems like
you want to save it and that's fine too. My engine has a 100k warranty
and even if I don't keep the car that long the next owner gets benefit.
Owners manual says change the filter.

You realize you are talking with Arlen Holder...

Nah, Mike is polite. Arlen does not like at all and thinks I post under
at least five names.

Maybe he's taking his meds. He has me blocked and other forensic details lead
me to believe it's Arlen. You noted a discrepancy along with a different
vehicle so you may be right.

Whatever, he can get blood out of stone with his posts.

--
Tekkie

On 26-03-2021 20:34 Scott Dorsey wrote:

No, you're not following the guidelines in the service manual.

Now you're just being silly.
Every car ever sold specified the current oil spec as the guidelines.

We've been at this since round about API SC days as I recall (do you?).
As I recall when the emission stuff hit the fan we jumped all the way to SD.

It's been that uphill climb ever since for every vehicle sold in the USA.

I pulled out my shop manual for a 1997 Japanese vehicle and it says on page
LU-1 "API grade SH Energy Conserving if multigrade engine oil or ILSAC
multigrade engine oil SAE 5W30 is the best choice for your vehicle, for good
fuel economy, land good starting in cold weather." On page LU-2 it says to
use 5.4 liters (5.6 US qts) with oil filter change and 4.7 liters (4.2 US
qts) without oil filter change.

It even specifies a "Dry Fill" on page LU-3 of 5.8 liters (6.1 US qts) which
I don't remember if I've seen that in other service manuals (have you?).

Looking in a 2002 German factory manual on page 020-10 under "Maintenance" I
see my own handwritten note to not to use LL-04. On page 020-6 are the
"Maintenance Tables" and here it says to change both the oil & filter for
Table a. Oil Service, and the same for Table b "Inspection I Service" and
Table d "Oil Service" it says in the chart to use 7.5 liters (7.9 US qt) of
5W-30 synthetic oil BMW part no. 07 51 0 017 866 (LL-01).

Because
if your car was made in 1990 then the oil described in the service manual
is no longer being manufactured.

Stop being silly.
It gets better with each designation.
Sometimes it matters. Sometimes it don't.

Is the current oil better or worse than the oil that was originally
specified? It's likely much better. But you don't really know. All
you can do is drive and hope.

Stop it with the silliness.
It don't get worse for motor oil or for oil filters.

There are some cases in which the current oil formulations may be
problematic for older vehicles. 1990 isn't old enough to worry about,
but some people drive vehicles where they might worry.

I don't know why I'm bothering to pull out my manuals just because most of
you pull all your statements out of your own asses instead of the manual.

You made me go back to my trunk to push the talisman aside (to ward off
those tigers) and on page MA-9 it says to use 6-3/8 qt (US measure) with oil
filter and 5-7/8 qt (US measure) without oil filter and in the "Recommended
fluids" column it says "Energy Conserving Oils of API SG asterik 2, asterik
3.

Asterik 2 For further details see Recommended SAE viscosity number (MA-10)
Asterik 3 Energy conserving oils. These oils can be identified by such
labels as EC-I, EC-II, energy conserving, energy saving, improved fuel
economy, etc.

On page MA-10 there is a viscosity chart with the captain of "10W30 is
preferable if the ambient temperature is above -18C (0F). 20W-40 and 20W50
are usable if the ambient temperature is above 10C (50F) for all seasons.

Anyways out of three factory manuals the two Japanese manuals specify oil
without filter and only the German manual specifies the oil with the filter
every time.

I don't know why I bother to dig these up just because most of you pulled
your comments out of your asses which is why you're wrong on all counts.

In the end (given that's where your ideas come from) you can change your oil
and filter on any interval you like but stop making up **** about the
factory specifications please.

Two out of three of my own shop manuals refute everything you people claim.

On 27-03-2021 01:22 Jim Joyce wrote:

Was that the link that you intended?

Yes. Of course it was.

I think I'm the only one who isn't pulling all his ideas out of his ass.
All my statements were backed up with relevent articles and shop manuals.

That link you read said exactly what I said that link said.
Actually I gave you two links which both said what I said they said.

https://knowhow.napaonline.com/how-o...ur-oil-filter/
https://knowhow.napaonline.com/how-m...l-filter-last/

Please read both links again and let me know what you found when you do.
What you should find out is that both said exactly what I said they said.

I suggest you search for what it says about manufacturers recommendations.

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 13:05:56 -0400, wrote:

Bear in mind, the manufacturer would be perfectly happy if the car
blew up the day after the warranty expired. Then you would have to buy
another one.

I doubt that any car manufacturer would be happy about that because if they
build a car that blows up the day after the warranty expires, you can be
sure that the replacement car will be made by someone else.

On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 11:00:19 PM UTC-5, mike wrote:
On 22-03-2021 17:32 Bubba Smollett wrote:

If it meets the required API spec, it's good enough for me.

https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-.../dp/B07C5FF8RG
According to this video all three of these oils are the same
(and all three are definitely made by the same manufacturer)
https://youtu.be/l9il_piyuT8?t=668

Amazon Basics
Supertech
Kirkland fully synthetic

They're all the same oil made by Warren Distribution in Omaha Nebraska.

nothing would occur to me to google something like that

I just would not think about it

mk5000

Harper Pitt: What are you doing in my hallucination?
Prior Walter: I'm not in your hallucination, you're in my dream.
Harper Pitt: You're wearing makeup.
Prior Walter: So are you.--Angels in America

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 22:02:54 +0530, mike
wrote:

On 26-03-2021 18:10 Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Oh, I understand but conditions vary too.

You don't think manufacturers took all that into account when they often
recommended a filter every 2nd oil change under normal driving conditions?

Short trips in a very cold climate versus highway driving in mild temperatures.
Oil should really be tested and not just changed at some magic interval of one
size fits all.

I don't disagree on having your oil sent out after the fact for testing.

I can't see the inside of that cartridge filter, nor can I do a
flow test.

I disagree you can't see inside that cartridge filter since teardowns exist.
(1) Why do you think it has a pleated filter & which are the best?
(2) Why do you think it has an antidrainback valve & which is best?
(3) Why do you think it has an overpressure valve & which is best?
(4) Why do you think it has a gasket for engine mating & which is best?
(5) Why do you think it has many holes around the outside & which are best?

Not just about money too.

You had not yet mentioned a single decision that wasn't only about money.
I mentioned the specifications, OEM recommendations and the tear downs.

Clearly we think differently.

You seem to only care about money and convenience (and that's OK).
I very much care about what it is that I'm trying to accomplish.

The ONLY reason NOT to change the filter every time pretty much boils
down to "money". What possible advantage would YPU get bynot changing
the filter????

I'm under the car, filter is right there, two
minutes and done. I'm certainly not going with an interval other than a
change time.

Most people are like you in that they don't understand what it is they buy.
They just replace it without thinking using any interval they feel like.
They probably don't even read the owners manual to see what it says.

Thank all that's holy the whole world isn't like YOU.
And that's OK.
You can replace your oil filter on any interval you feel like doing so.

But I'm going to base my replacement on understanding what the filter does.
And I'm also going to base it on understanding what the manufacturer says.
And I'm going to base my replacement on choosing good filters to start with.

Having said that you're welcome to replace yours on any interval you like.
But if you ask me how I choose my interval then don't only bring up money.

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 23:11:35 +0530, mike
wrote:

On 26-03-2021 19:05 wrote:

Bear in mind, the manufacturer would be perfectly happy if the car
blew up the day after the warranty expired. Then you would have to buy
another one. I am sure the intervals for old cars should be shorter
than a new one if oil contamination was your main issue. More stuff
will get by the rings for one thing.
OTOH people who always drive old cars don't really care.

Even so for anyone to claim oil filters wear at exactly the same rate the
oil wears is just proving they don't understand there are oils that are
"longer lasting" and there are filters that are "longer lasting" (just as
their are oils and filters that are shorter lasting and conditions matter).

They're completely different things (oil & filters) with different specs.
And they're made completely differently and they also wear differently.

Filters don't "wear" you clown. They plug up - and sometimes split.

Every manufacturer has a maintenance table for when to check/change things.
In addition, each manufacturer of oil & filters does things differently.

There are a lot of oil specs out there to consider
SAE 0W20, 0W30, 0W40, 5W30, 5W40, 10W30, 10W40, 15W50
ACEA A1/B1, A5/B5, A3/B4 A5/B5-10, A5/B5-12
API SN, SN Plus, SN-RC, SM, SL, SP
BMW LL-01
Chrysler MS 6395
FIAT 9.55535-H2, FIAT 9.55535-M2, FIAT 9.55535-N2
Ford WSS-M2C153-H, WSS-M2C929-A, WSS-M2C930-A, WSS-M2C945-A, WSS-M2C946-A,
WSS-M2C947-A
GM-Opel LL B-025
GM 4718M, 6094M, LL-A-025, dexos1 Gen 2, Gen 3
Honda HTO-06
ILSAC GF-5, GF-4, GF-3
MB-Approval 229.5
Porsche A40
Renault RN0700, RN0710
VW 502 00 - 505 00

And there are a lot of oil filter teardowns where I've dremeled open many of
my own oil filters & I even used to send out my oil for testing years ago.

If you ask me what I base my oil filter change intervals on I'm going to
answer that I base intervals on things other than just money & convenience.
(1) I look at filter pleating, surface area, micron spec, edge glue & seam

That is the quality of the filter
(2) I look at the size and thickness & antidrainback valve material
(3) I especially check the type of overpressure valve (some don't exist!)
(4) I pick at the mating gasket to see if it tends to easily fall off
(5) I check the inlet holes for the number and overall diameter
(6) I like to look for the mating threads machined from the outside in
(7) I like filter cans that are 20 & 30 thou rather than 15 thousandths
(8) I look at the type of oil that I'm putting in and the type of driving
And none of that affects how OFTEN you change the thing.

It's fine for him to claim that he only cares about money & convenience.
He can change his oil filter on any interval he wants and that's OK with me.

But if he asks me why I follow the manufacturer recommendations then he's
going to get more of an answer than just money & convenience specifically
because neither is what I use to determine my oil filter change interval.

You don't have a CLUE what you base your descision on other than
wanting to appear to be a Mensa class Genius in fields where you are
BADLY outclassed

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 23:18:12 +0530, mike
wrote:

On 26-03-2021 23:11 mike wrote:

(1) I look at filter pleating, surface area, micron spec, edge glue & seam
(2) I look at the size and thickness & antidrainback valve material
(3) I especially check the type of overpressure valve (some don't exist!)
(4) I pick at the mating gasket to see if it tends to easily fall off
(5) I check the inlet holes for the number and overall diameter
(6) I like to look for the mating threads machined from the outside in
(7) I like filter cans that are 20 & 30 thou rather than 15 thousandths
(8) I look at the type of oil that I'm putting in and the type of driving

In that off hand list I forgot to mention what I found the first time I tore
apart a $15 Fram filter from AutoZone (which had the worst pleating ever!)

*****ty cardboard end plates*

Far less expensive oil filters have steel end plates and synthetic pleating
without visible gaps at the ends and a with a long steel clamp at the seam!
We can all read the filter reviews - and exactly WHAT is the problem
with "cardboard end plates"? Are thy oil soluable, or does your car
have water in the oil???
Not arguing for the quality of the orang painted filters - but has
THAT part of the construction caused a filter failure in your personal
experience??? It hasn't in my 50+ years experience. The thread tied
around the filter medium has - on filters more expensive than Fram -
and your AutoZone reference means absolutely nothing as the orange can
filters are all the same regardless who sells them and at what price.
ANd The Gold coloured filters made by the same company are of
SIGNIFICANTLY higher quality.

Have you ever split a 15 thou filter can (or seen one actually
split)? Or are you planning on leaving it on long enough that it rusts
through????
Some filters don't NEED a preddure bypass filter because the engine
has one. Some engines don't require an anti-backflow or drainback
valve because they are mounted vertically.

Reguardless NONE of the criteria you listed would have ANY ffect on
how often you would change the filter other than possibly the filter
area.

You don't have a stinkin' CLUE.

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 23:48:03 +0530, mike
wrote:

On 26-03-2021 22:04 Clare Snyder wrote:

I keep seeing references to Many manufacturers recommend oil filter
intervals different than oil. on many different websites, yet I have
not seen that recommendation in an owner's manual
The only specific recommendations I have seen referenced are on Honda
in the USA.
Toyota has always recommended oil and filter together Kia and Hyundai
do to. All if my Fords and Chryslers have too - so who are the "many
manufacturers"??

How many owners manuals do NOT specify the oil change volume both with the
oil filter also being changed and the oil change volume without the filter?

Actually the VAST majority no longer list the volume without the
filter

How many owners manuals do NOT specify different maintenance intervals based
on the type of service (for example the severity of driving conditions such
as "dusty conditions" and/or the total number of accumulated time and/or
total number of accumulated miles)?

They all do

I have my 1990 Infiniti Q45 service manual in my hands at this very moment.

Page MA-5 shows a one to one oil change and filter interval while the very
next page MA-6 shows an "R" (for replace) on the oil filter every other oil
change and the air filter gets its "R" every fourth oil change interval
(the intervals being tabled under distance or time "whichever comes first").

I can check others but you must have seen similar in maintenance schedules.