On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 00:40:08 +0530, mike
wrote:

On 26-03-2021 23:32 Ed Pawlowski wrote:

I care about making my car last.
Even a cheap car is a hefty investment

I follow the guidelines in the service manual that came with the car.

Following that book I've been driving my 1990 as my DD but since you're
worried I will tell you that for insurance against attacks by tigers
I've also carried an amethyst talisman in the trunk next to the manual.

Haven't been attacked by a tiger yet so like you say it must be working.

Other than replacing the fuel controller and fuel pump from that same trunk
a few times already and having to jack up the engine in front to replace the
plugs that Q45 still works fine using just the maintenance service interval
recommendations of an oil filter every other oil change as specified in that
three inch thick service manual that came in the trunk with every vehicle
sold and which stows neatly next to the talisman to ward off evil spirits.

Haven't had to replace the engine yet so like you say it must be working.
I follow the recommendations on my 25 year old pickup too - It has
373000 on the clock - and the filter is changed with every oil change
just like the manual says. Still the original fuel pump (and virtually
everything else engine-wize - except the cam syncronizer and the
alternator, spark plugs and air filter0

On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 00:49:10 +0530, mike
wrote:

On 26-03-2021 22:02 Clare Snyder wrote:

OK Arlen - who are the "many manufacturers"? Honda is only one.

Why don't you believe what is found in many service manuals and what I have
in my hands right now? I have other service manuals but why would I even
look in my other service manuals if you won't believe what I am telling you
to your face is in my 1990 Q45 service manual (one came with every car).

BTW, don't know who Arlin is but do you want me to take a photograph of my
three inch thick green paperback service manual which came with my 1990 Q45?

OK, so Datsun (Nissan) and possibly Renault and MitsoShiity MIGHT
have that recommendation on SOME of their cars (although I suspect it
is Infinity specific - and POSSIBLY even model specific )

Tell me where to upload it for you and I'll upload for you page MA-6 which
shows a "R" replacement for the oil change every service interval and an "R"
replacement for the oil filter every other service interval and an "R"
replacment (with "I" inspections in between) for the air filter every fourth
service interval (based on kilometers/miles and/or months, whichever comes
first).

But why don't you first look up what you make up before you spew it anyways?

I didn't say Honda was THE only one - it was the only one actually
referenced in ANY of the sites stating "many manufacturers" - we now
have 2 - Honda and Nissan Infinity. 2 isn't exactlky MANY.

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 15:30:37 -0400, Tekkie©
wrote:


On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:02:03 -0400, Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us to
digest...


On 3/26/2021 12:32 PM, mike wrote:

I can't see the inside of that cartridge filter, nor can I do a flow
test.

I disagree you can't see inside that cartridge filter since teardowns
exist.
(1) Why do you think it has a pleated filter & which are the best?
(2) Why do you think it has an antidrainback valve & which is best?
(3) Why do you think it has an overpressure valve & which is best?
(4) Why do you think it has a gasket for engine mating & which is best?
(5) Why do you think it has many holes around the outside & which are best?

But none of that applies to the filter in my car for the past 5000
miles. Sure, I can buy what seems best but that has nothing to do with
the present condition of my car as I change the oil today. May have
been great for 4900 miles but will it be good for the next couple of
thousand?



Not just about money too.

You had not yet mentioned a single decision that wasn't only about money.
I mentioned the specifications, OEM recommendations and the tear downs.

Clearly we think differently.

You seem to only care about money and convenience (and that's OK).
I very much care about what it is that I'm trying to accomplish.

I care about making my car last. Even a cheap car is a hefty investment
and while I abhor waste, I do believe in proper maintenance. In the
time of ownership I will get 10 oil changes or in your case, an extra 5
filters. About $50 extra on a car I spent $50k on. Keeps my warranty
and peace of mind.



I'm under the car, filter is right there, two minutes and done.* I'm
certainly not going with an interval other than a change time.

Most people are like you in that they don't understand what it is they buy.
They just replace it without thinking using any interval they feel like.
They probably don't even read the owners manual to see what it says.

And that's OK.
You can replace your oil filter on any interval you feel like doing so.

But I'm going to base my replacement on understanding what the filter does.
And I'm also going to base it on understanding what the manufacturer says.
And I'm going to base my replacement on choosing good filters to start
with.

Having said that you're welcome to replace yours on any interval you like.
But if you ask me how I choose my interval then don't only bring up money.

Yeah, say what you want but you bring up money every time. Seems like
you want to save it and that's fine too. My engine has a 100k warranty
and even if I don't keep the car that long the next owner gets benefit.
Owners manual says change the filter.

You realize you are talking with Arlen Holder...
Now he claims to be a ritired accountant - He always claimed to be an
engineer before, didn't he????

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:47:31 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 18:49:56 +0530, mike wrote:

On 26-03-2021 02:25 AMuzi wrote:

It's vestigial from the 1950s when oil and labor were cheap
and filters were expensive. No good reason now, certainly
not any technical reason. I changed to oil with new filter
every 3K miles in the 1970s.

I already explained in great detail that it's not at all about money.
It's about design and function.

Most people want a simple answer to everything which money is to them.
But not everything is a simple dollars to dollars decision like you claimed.

If all you care about is money then knowing that both the oil filter and the
oil are cheap you're welcome to throw away both at the same interval which
is why I said it's up to you.

But stop saying it's about money when that's only how YOU think.
The manufacturers think differently than you think.

For them it's about engineering.

Many manufacturers recommend oil filter intervals different than oil.
https://knowhow.napaonline.com/how-m...l-filter-last/

If you disagree with the manufacturer then you should answer this question:
Does the oil filter always fail at the exact same rate as does the oil?

Remember the old oil filter trick where you just use a roll of toilet
paper? I thought I'd never see that again but it turned up on an episode of
Garage Squad.
That works OK for a "bypass" filter - and the day a filter "fails" on
a car is a day too late to change it. Same with oil.

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 15:48:21 -0400, Tekkie©
wrote:


On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 20:50:41 -0600, rbowman posted for all of us to digest...


On 03/25/2021 02:35 PM, Tekkie? wrote:

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 15:01:50 -0500, Jim Joyce posted for all of us to digest...


On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 22:35:05 +0530, mike wrote:

On 25-03-2021 13:08 wrote:

Once it gets in the bottle it is the same as far as API is concerned.

I agree with you that oil is a commodity which people obsess about.
Mostly because advertisers want to give people something to obsess about.

Every brand is different but those differences won't matter much to us.

What matters mostly is how often we change it (IMHO).
Which itself matters mostly based on our weather & driving patterns (IMHO).

And even that is subject to a lot of personal opinion (IMHO).
Everyone makes their own assessment of what to use & when to change (IMHO).

(My personal opinion is twice a year for dino & once a year for synth).
(My personal opinion is a filter change roughly about once a year.)

I'm curious. If you're going to go to the trouble of changing the oil twice
a year, why not change the filter twice a year, as in, doing both at the
same time? It seems like only a small increment of extra work and expense.

How dare you question Arlen?


I find it much easier to filter him...

Pleated or non-pleated? Cardboard or steel end-caps? He filter level is 0.
Hard to filter a nym shifting turd.

On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 07:15:49 +1100, "%%" wrote:



"Tekkie©" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:02:03 -0400, Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us to
digest...


On 3/26/2021 12:32 PM, mike wrote:

I can't see the inside of that cartridge filter, nor can I do a flow
test.

I disagree you can't see inside that cartridge filter since teardowns
exist.
(1) Why do you think it has a pleated filter & which are the best?
(2) Why do you think it has an antidrainback valve & which is best?
(3) Why do you think it has an overpressure valve & which is best?
(4) Why do you think it has a gasket for engine mating & which is best?
(5) Why do you think it has many holes around the outside & which are
best?

But none of that applies to the filter in my car for the past 5000
miles. Sure, I can buy what seems best but that has nothing to do with
the present condition of my car as I change the oil today. May have
been great for 4900 miles but will it be good for the next couple of
thousand?



Not just about money too.

You had not yet mentioned a single decision that wasn't only about
money.
I mentioned the specifications, OEM recommendations and the tear downs.

Clearly we think differently.

You seem to only care about money and convenience (and that's OK).
I very much care about what it is that I'm trying to accomplish.

I care about making my car last. Even a cheap car is a hefty investment
and while I abhor waste, I do believe in proper maintenance. In the
time of ownership I will get 10 oil changes or in your case, an extra 5
filters. About $50 extra on a car I spent $50k on. Keeps my warranty
and peace of mind.



I'm under the car, filter is right there, two minutes and done. I'm
certainly not going with an interval other than a change time.

Most people are like you in that they don't understand what it is they
buy.
They just replace it without thinking using any interval they feel
like.
They probably don't even read the owners manual to see what it says.

And that's OK.
You can replace your oil filter on any interval you feel like doing so.

But I'm going to base my replacement on understanding what the filter
does.
And I'm also going to base it on understanding what the manufacturer
says.
And I'm going to base my replacement on choosing good filters to start
with.

Having said that you're welcome to replace yours on any interval you
like.
But if you ask me how I choose my interval then don't only bring up
money.

Yeah, say what you want but you bring up money every time. Seems like
you want to save it and that's fine too. My engine has a 100k warranty
and even if I don't keep the car that long the next owner gets benefit.
Owners manual says change the filter.

You realize you are talking with Arlen Holder...

Don't believe that. Arlen was never an accountant.
I doubt he was ever an engineer either

On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 03:58:21 +0530, mike
wrote:

On 26-03-2021 20:34 Scott Dorsey wrote:

No, you're not following the guidelines in the service manual.

Now you're just being silly.
Every car ever sold specified the current oil spec as the guidelines.

We've been at this since round about API SC days as I recall (do you?).
As I recall when the emission stuff hit the fan we jumped all the way to SD.

It's been that uphill climb ever since for every vehicle sold in the USA.

I pulled out my shop manual for a 1997 Japanese vehicle and it says on page
LU-1 "API grade SH Energy Conserving if multigrade engine oil or ILSAC
multigrade engine oil SAE 5W30 is the best choice for your vehicle, for good
fuel economy, land good starting in cold weather." On page LU-2 it says to
use 5.4 liters (5.6 US qts) with oil filter change and 4.7 liters (4.2 US
qts) without oil filter change.

It even specifies a "Dry Fill" on page LU-3 of 5.8 liters (6.1 US qts) which
I don't remember if I've seen that in other service manuals (have you?).

Looking in a 2002 German factory manual on page 020-10 under "Maintenance" I
see my own handwritten note to not to use LL-04. On page 020-6 are the
"Maintenance Tables" and here it says to change both the oil & filter for
Table a. Oil Service, and the same for Table b "Inspection I Service" and
Table d "Oil Service" it says in the chart to use 7.5 liters (7.9 US qt) of
5W-30 synthetic oil BMW part no. 07 51 0 017 866 (LL-01).

Because
if your car was made in 1990 then the oil described in the service manual
is no longer being manufactured.

Stop being silly.
It gets better with each designation.
Sometimes it matters. Sometimes it don't.

Is the current oil better or worse than the oil that was originally
specified? It's likely much better. But you don't really know. All
you can do is drive and hope.

Stop it with the silliness.
It don't get worse for motor oil or for oil filters.

Shows how much you know. Today's spec engine oils will eat the
camshaft out of older flat tappet engines in no time if you don't add
a zinc replacement additive of some sort. It will also wipe the babbit
bearings out of the even older engines with direct babbited bearings.

Lots of other instances where current spec lubricants are NOT
recommended for older engines. Same thing with both automatic
transmission fluids and gear lubricants. (and even antifreeze)

There are some cases in which the current oil formulations may be
problematic for older vehicles. 1990 isn't old enough to worry about,
but some people drive vehicles where they might worry.

I don't know why I'm bothering to pull out my manuals just because most of
you pull all your statements out of your own asses instead of the manual.

You made me go back to my trunk to push the talisman aside (to ward off
those tigers) and on page MA-9 it says to use 6-3/8 qt (US measure) with oil
filter and 5-7/8 qt (US measure) without oil filter and in the "Recommended
fluids" column it says "Energy Conserving Oils of API SG asterik 2, asterik
3.

Asterik 2 For further details see Recommended SAE viscosity number (MA-10)
Asterik 3 Energy conserving oils. These oils can be identified by such
labels as EC-I, EC-II, energy conserving, energy saving, improved fuel
economy, etc.

On page MA-10 there is a viscosity chart with the captain of "10W30 is
preferable if the ambient temperature is above -18C (0F). 20W-40 and 20W50
are usable if the ambient temperature is above 10C (50F) for all seasons.

Anyways out of three factory manuals the two Japanese manuals specify oil
without filter and only the German manual specifies the oil with the filter
every time.

I don't know why I bother to dig these up just because most of you pulled
your comments out of your asses which is why you're wrong on all counts.

In the end (given that's where your ideas come from) you can change your oil
and filter on any interval you like but stop making up **** about the
factory specifications please.

Two out of three of my own shop manuals refute everything you people claim.

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 18:33:44 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 13:05:56 -0400, wrote:

Bear in mind, the manufacturer would be perfectly happy if the car
blew up the day after the warranty expired. Then you would have to buy
another one.

I doubt that any car manufacturer would be happy about that because if they
build a car that blows up the day after the warranty expires, you can be
sure that the replacement car will be made by someone else.
GM has been doing that for years. Too bad a lot of Vegas didn't even
make it to end of warranty - same with Olds diesels. How about the
plastic intake manifolds on the 3.8 that melted from the EGR valve -
for over 15 years IIRC? Or the ignition switches that turned
themselves off while you were driving if you had a few keys on the
ring???

ANd people njust kept coming back to GM to buy another one!!!

BOHICA!!!!

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 16:36:53 -0700 (PDT), marika
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 11:00:19 PM UTC-5, mike wrote:
On 22-03-2021 17:32 Bubba Smollett wrote:

If it meets the required API spec, it's good enough for me.

https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-.../dp/B07C5FF8RG
According to this video all three of these oils are the same
(and all three are definitely made by the same manufacturer)
https://youtu.be/l9il_piyuT8?t=668

Amazon Basics
Supertech
Kirkland fully synthetic

They're all the same oil made by Warren Distribution in Omaha Nebraska.

Not necessarily the SAME OIL just because it is blended and bottled
by the same company - but is LIKELY either the same or very close.
Even Shell and Mobil and Havoline make more than one kind of oil and
sell them under their own name and those of third parties. - they are
not all the same - - - -

nothing would occur to me to google something like that

I just would not think about it

mk5000

Harper Pitt: What are you doing in my hallucination?
Prior Walter: I'm not in your hallucination, you're in my dream.
Harper Pitt: You're wearing makeup.
Prior Walter: So are you.--Angels in America

On 3/26/2021 8:57 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 18:33:44 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 13:05:56 -0400, wrote:

Bear in mind, the manufacturer would be perfectly happy if the car
blew up the day after the warranty expired. Then you would have to buy
another one.

I doubt that any car manufacturer would be happy about that because if they
build a car that blows up the day after the warranty expires, you can be
sure that the replacement car will be made by someone else.
GM has been doing that for years. Too bad a lot of Vegas didn't even
make it to end of warranty - same with Olds diesels. How about the
plastic intake manifolds on the 3.8 that melted from the EGR valve -
for over 15 years IIRC? Or the ignition switches that turned
themselves off while you were driving if you had a few keys on the
ring???

ANd people njust kept coming back to GM to buy another one!!!

BOHICA!!!!

Drove my brother's Vega from PA to CA when he moved. It was never the
same after that.

Did not have any of the other problems you mentioned but enough other
issues I'll never buy another GM car.

On 03/26/2021 10:32 AM, mike wrote:
I don't disagree on having your oil sent out after the fact for testing.

Different situation but when I was driving the standard was 12,000 miles
or about once a month. At 10 gallons or Rotella and two or three
filters, that adds up.

When the older trucks were being replaced with Volvo Whites with the
Detroit 60 engines, the shop foreman started a testing protocol.The
tests showed no significant degradation at 20,000 miles but that became
the new standard. When I asked him his reply was the oil had to be
changed sometime and 20,000 seemed like a reasonable target.

The Detroit 60's were game changers. A lot of them were hitting a
million miles without an in-frame rebuild. Previously most big diesels
were tired at about 700,000.

"Clare Snyder" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 07:15:49 +1100, "%%" wrote:



"Tekkie©" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:02:03 -0400, Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us to
digest...


On 3/26/2021 12:32 PM, mike wrote:

I can't see the inside of that cartridge filter, nor can I do a flow
test.

I disagree you can't see inside that cartridge filter since teardowns
exist.
(1) Why do you think it has a pleated filter & which are the best?
(2) Why do you think it has an antidrainback valve & which is best?
(3) Why do you think it has an overpressure valve & which is best?
(4) Why do you think it has a gasket for engine mating & which is
best?
(5) Why do you think it has many holes around the outside & which are
best?

But none of that applies to the filter in my car for the past 5000
miles. Sure, I can buy what seems best but that has nothing to do with
the present condition of my car as I change the oil today. May have
been great for 4900 miles but will it be good for the next couple of
thousand?



Not just about money too.

You had not yet mentioned a single decision that wasn't only about
money.
I mentioned the specifications, OEM recommendations and the tear
downs.

Clearly we think differently.

You seem to only care about money and convenience (and that's OK).
I very much care about what it is that I'm trying to accomplish.

I care about making my car last. Even a cheap car is a hefty investment
and while I abhor waste, I do believe in proper maintenance. In the
time of ownership I will get 10 oil changes or in your case, an extra 5
filters. About $50 extra on a car I spent $50k on. Keeps my warranty
and peace of mind.



I'm under the car, filter is right there, two minutes and done. I'm
certainly not going with an interval other than a change time.

Most people are like you in that they don't understand what it is
they
buy.
They just replace it without thinking using any interval they feel
like.
They probably don't even read the owners manual to see what it says.

And that's OK.
You can replace your oil filter on any interval you feel like doing
so.

But I'm going to base my replacement on understanding what the filter
does.
And I'm also going to base it on understanding what the manufacturer
says.
And I'm going to base my replacement on choosing good filters to
start
with.

Having said that you're welcome to replace yours on any interval you
like.
But if you ask me how I choose my interval then don't only bring up
money.

Yeah, say what you want but you bring up money every time. Seems like
you want to save it and that's fine too. My engine has a 100k warranty
and even if I don't keep the car that long the next owner gets benefit.
Owners manual says change the filter.

You realize you are talking with Arlen Holder...

Don't believe that. Arlen was never an accountant.

I doubt he was ever an engineer either

I don't, Arlen certainly did some engineering stuff, particularly wifi
between the houses in his area with very poor cellphone coverage.

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 21:20:51 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/26/2021 8:57 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 18:33:44 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 13:05:56 -0400, wrote:

Bear in mind, the manufacturer would be perfectly happy if the car
blew up the day after the warranty expired. Then you would have to buy
another one.

I doubt that any car manufacturer would be happy about that because if they
build a car that blows up the day after the warranty expires, you can be
sure that the replacement car will be made by someone else.
GM has been doing that for years. Too bad a lot of Vegas didn't even
make it to end of warranty - same with Olds diesels. How about the
plastic intake manifolds on the 3.8 that melted from the EGR valve -
for over 15 years IIRC? Or the ignition switches that turned
themselves off while you were driving if you had a few keys on the
ring???

ANd people njust kept coming back to GM to buy another one!!!

BOHICA!!!!

Drove my brother's Vega from PA to CA when he moved. It was never the
same after that.

Did not have any of the other problems you mentioned but enough other
issues I'll never buy another GM car.
I've owned a dew. 1928, 1935, 1957, 1967, and 1995. Had the '57 for 2
weeks. Never got the 35 together. Dixed up the 67 Chevy 2 4 door and
sold it. Owned the 28 for almost 2 years. The '95 Trans Sport finished
me on GMs

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 20:57:55 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 18:33:44 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 13:05:56 -0400, wrote:

Bear in mind, the manufacturer would be perfectly happy if the car
blew up the day after the warranty expired. Then you would have to buy
another one.

I doubt that any car manufacturer would be happy about that because if they
build a car that blows up the day after the warranty expires, you can be
sure that the replacement car will be made by someone else.
GM has been doing that for years. Too bad a lot of Vegas didn't even
make it to end of warranty - same with Olds diesels. How about the
plastic intake manifolds on the 3.8 that melted from the EGR valve -
for over 15 years IIRC? Or the ignition switches that turned
themselves off while you were driving if you had a few keys on the
ring???

ANd people njust kept coming back to GM to buy another one!!!

BOHICA!!!!

Looks like I missed all the fun. I bought a '84 Toyota 4x4, new in '83, and
have driven Toyotas ever since. So far none have died on me, except one
that went up in flames after birds built a nest under the hood and I didn't
notice until it was too late.

On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 12:46:56 +1100, %%, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

I don't

Of course you don't, you ridiculous, auto-contradicting, clinically insane,
senile asshole and troll! LMAO

--
Bod addressing abnormal senile quarreller Rot:
"Do you practice arguing with yourself in an empty room?"
MID:

In article , mike wrote:
On 26-03-2021 20:34 Scott Dorsey wrote:

Because
if your car was made in 1990 then the oil described in the service manual
is no longer being manufactured.

Stop being silly.
It gets better with each designation.
Sometimes it matters. Sometimes it don't.

Mostly it gets better. But I notice that you completely removed all of my
points about ZDDP.

The base oil gets better, but the additive package changes in ways that
may or may not be an improvement depending on your requirements.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 27-03-2021 05:00 Ed Pawlowski wrote:

The links are a bit contradictory.

I know exactly what the links said.
It's someone else who said the links didn't say what I said they said.

I'm not a believer in bull**** as you can probably tell by now.

First link says:
keep things simple by changing your oil filter every time

Nothing wrong with replacing your oil & filter every day of the week.
That's why I said it's OK whatever schedule others used.

Alls I said was the manufacturers often recommend every other interval.
Those who refuted that fact didn't produce a single reference.

I produced five.
Alls I'm saying is you can replace your filter on any schedule you like.

But don't claim manufacturers don't recommend every other oil change.
Everyone who claimed that so far has pulled it out of their asses.

That's all I'm saying. You do what you want. I do what I want.
I follow what the manufacturer recommends.
(1) I choose good oil (lasts longer than the manufacturers recommendation)
(2) I choose good filters (they last longer than the oil change interval)

Second link says:
Many manufacturers say to change the oil filter every other oil change.

Of course it says that.
It says what I said it said even though some dufus said it didn't say that.

Alls people are doing is pulling out recommendations from their own ass.
Nobody but me has supplied any references from manufacturers & manuals.

You do what you want to do.
I will continue to follow the manufacturers recommendation.
And I will continue to choose the best oil and oil filters I can figure out.

The only thing new to me is the huge number of synthetic oil specs.
I don't know how to choose a good synthetic oil yet.

There are too many specs to try to figure out at this point.
ACEA A1/B1, A5/B5, A3/B4 A5/B5-10, A5/B5-12
API SN, SN Plus, SN-RC, SM, SL, SP
BMW LL-01, LL-04
Chrysler MS 6395
FIAT 9.55535-H2, FIAT 9.55535-M2, FIAT 9.55535-N2
Ford WSS-M2C153-H, WSS-M2C929-A, WSS-M2C930-A, WSS-M2C945-A, WSS-M2C946-A, WSS-M2C947-A
GM-Opel LL B-025
GM 4718M, 6094M, LL-A-025, dexos1 Gen 2, Gen 3
Honda HTO-06
ILSAC GF-5, GF-4, GF-3
MB-Approval 229.5
Porsche A40
Renault RN0700, RN0710
VW 502 00 - 505 00

many of them the same people who would never go past 3,000 miles
would never dream of doing an oil change without also changing the filter.

Like I said many times before you do what you want to do with your oil.

But don't tell me my references don't say what I knows they say.
I didn't post the references without reading them first.

You alls pulled out everything you said from your own asses.

Why pass brand-new, clean oil through

That's OK.
But what you pulled out of your asses is not what my manuals say.

I just follow my manual that says every change.
If yours differs, fine, follow it.

Just don't tell me my service manual don't say what I knows it says.
Everything most of you said you pulled out of your asses.

I'm not a believer in bull**** as you can probably tell by now.

Yet I'm new to buying synthetic at ~$2.50/qt so alls I want to know now
is how to tell the difference for sure between any two synthetics.

Does anyone here know how to tell one synthetic from another?

On 27-03-2021 12:35 Scott Dorsey wrote:

Mostly it gets better.

I agree. The API rating that I use most don't get worse.
The API quality rating started with SA/SB/SC and now it's SP (afaict).

I will say that I don't have a good way to compare all the standards though.
ACEA A1/B1, A5/B5, A3/B4 A5/B5-10, A5/B5-12
API SN, SN Plus, SN-RC, SM, SL, SP
BMW LL-01, LL-04
Chrysler MS 6395
FIAT 9.55535-H2, FIAT 9.55535-M2, FIAT 9.55535-N2
Ford WSS-M2C153-H, WSS-M2C929-A, WSS-M2C930-A, WSS-M2C945-A, WSS-M2C946-A, WSS-M2C947-A
GM-Opel LL B-025
GM 4718M, 6094M, LL-A-025, dexos1 Gen 2, Gen 3
Honda HTO-06
ILSAC GF-5, GF-4, GF-3
MB-Approval 229.5
Porsche A40
Renault RN0700, RN0710
VW 502 00 - 505 00

Do you?

But I notice that you completely removed all of my
points about ZDDP.

Do you own a diesel?

The base oil gets better, but the additive package changes in ways that
may or may not be an improvement depending on your requirements.

Does your gasoline engine vehicle have a modern cat?
Does your state do periodic smog inspections on that vehicle with a cat?

On 27-03-2021 09:06 Jim Joyce wrote:

Looks like I missed all the fun. I bought a '84 Toyota 4x4, new in '83, and
have driven Toyotas ever since. So far none have died on me, except one
that went up in flames after birds built a nest under the hood and I didn't
notice until it was too late.

To your point I was a Detroit owner until I bought my first Japanese sedan.
Had a few German sedans in between but Japanese models never broke on me.
As I age I don't have time for Detroit garbage nor even German complexity.

What I need now that I'm shifting from conventional to synthetic is a good
way to tell the quality of any two oils from just the packages in my hands.

As you can tell by now I don't get my facts out of my ass so I'm willingly
admitting openly that I don't yet know how to compare any two synthetics.

Do you?
Does anyone?

How?

On 27-03-2021 06:07 Clare Snyder wrote:

OK, so Datsun (Nissan) and possibly Renault and MitsoShiity MIGHT
have that recommendation on SOME of their cars (although I suspect it
is Infinity specific - and POSSIBLY even model specific )

This is my last post to you "Clare" since you don't know nothin about cars.

You have a girls name so I can't know if you pulled everything you said out
of your asshole or pussy but I quoted five references & you quoted none.

You're so emotional that I suspect you're a girl and you have never seen
what is inside a factory manual because two out of three I grabbed yesterday
say exactly what you say they don't say.

You called me a "turd" simply for saying what the shop manuals said.
You're emotional. Too emotional.

I'm done with people like you who pull everything out of their pussies.
Like I said people can change their oil & filter on any cycle they want.

But most of you claim it's all about money and it's not.
Others claimed it's all about convenience but it's not.
You claimed most manufacturers don't recommend intervals & you're wrong.

Do any of you know anything about cars?
If you do answer me this which I admit openly that I do not know how yet.

How can I best compare two synthetic oils from just the jug in my hand?
(If you tell me the only way to tell is by price then you know nothin.)

In article , mike wrote:
On 27-03-2021 12:35 Scott Dorsey wrote:

But I notice that you completely removed all of my
points about ZDDP.

Do you own a diesel?

No, but I often drive older cars with tappet bearings, and that includes my
daily driver. Oils formulated for diesel engines are likely closer to the
oil they were originally designed for, however.

The base oil gets better, but the additive package changes in ways that
may or may not be an improvement depending on your requirements.

Does your gasoline engine vehicle have a modern cat?
Does your state do periodic smog inspections on that vehicle with a cat?

No on both counts.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article , mike wrote:

As you can tell by now I don't get my facts out of my ass so I'm willingly
admitting openly that I don't yet know how to compare any two synthetics.

Do you?
Does anyone?

How?

Same way you compare any two oils. Viscosity breakdown with time,
viscosity curve with temperature, adhesion, solvent characteristics,
ability to keep particulates in solution, three-ball test, etc.

There are standards for all this stuff and in general the European
standards are tighter than the US ones. It's interesting to look across
a given line... for example, the Castrol Syntec 10W-40 meets the latest
European standards but the 10W-30 and 10W-50 formulations do not.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 3/27/2021 12:06 PM, mike wrote:

What I need now that I'm shifting from conventional to synthetic is a good
way to tell the quality of any two oils from just the packages in my hands.

As you can tell by now I don't get my facts out of my ass so I'm willingly
admitting openly that I don't yet know how to compare any two synthetics.

Do you?
Does anyone?

How?

If a synthetic meets the requirements of your car it will be suitable.
Synthetics are superior to conventional.

As to Brand X vs Brand Y, I've seen some "tests" but nothing meaningful.
One YouTube video was a given amount of oil spilled on a track and the
time to run down measured. Huh? Has nothing to do with performance in
your engine at 6000 rpm.

A real test would be a series of sleeve bearings run for many hours,
each with a different brand of the same viscosity oil and the shaft and
bearing measured for wear. Another could be the power required to turn
a shaft at a given speed using different oils.

I'm sure there may be minor differences but I don't think any would be a
bad choice.

On 27-03-2021 17:01 Scott Dorsey wrote:

Same way you compare any two oils.

Alls you have is the jug in your hand when you're at the store.

Do you know of any real reviews (unbiased, not shills, not bull****)?

Viscosity breakdown with time,
viscosity curve with temperature, adhesion, solvent characteristics,
ability to keep particulates in solution, three-ball test, etc.

All oils "breakdown with time."

Nothing wrong with replacing oil every single day but I'm asking about
specifications for synthetic oil when the factory shop manual is followed.
https://addinol.de/en/products/lubri...pecifications/

There are standards for all this stuff and in general the European
standards are tighter than the US ones.

As the saying goes the problem is there are so many standards.

ACEA A1/B1, A5/B5, A3/B4 A5/B5-10, A5/B5-12
https://www.oilspecifications.org/acea.php

API SN, SN Plus, SN-RC, SM, SL, SP
https://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/api-sn.php

BMW LL-01, LL-04
https://www.oilspecifications.org/bmw.php

Chrysler MS 6395
http://www.kmn-lubricants.com/wp-con...e-05-03-13.pdf

FIAT 9.55535-H2, FIAT 9.55535-M2, FIAT 9.55535-N2
https://www.oilspecifications.org/fiat.php

Ford WSS-M2C153-H, WSS-M2C929-A, WSS-M2C930-A, WSS-M2C945-A, WSS-M2C946-A, WSS-M2C947-A
https://www.oilspecifications.org/ford.php

GM-Opel LL B-025
https://www.oilspecifications.org/general_motors_gm.php

GM 4718M, 6094M, LL-A-025, dexos1 Gen 2, Gen 3
https://www.oilspecifications.org/general_motors_gm.php

Honda HTO-06
http://pqiadata.org/Honda_0W20.html

ILSAC GF-5, GF-4, GF-3
https://www.oilspecifications.org/ilsac.php

MB-Approval 229.5
https://www.oilspecifications.org/mercedes_mb.php

Porsche A40
https://lnengineering.com/products/j...cing-oils.html

Renault RN0700, RN0710
https://www.oilspecifications.org/renault.php

VW 502 00 - 505 00
https://www.oilspecifications.org/ar..._explained.php

Alls I want is to be able to compare the oils I see in the USA stores.

It's interesting to look across a given line... for example the
Castrol Syntec 10W-40 meets the latest
European standards but the 10W-30 and 10W-50 formulations do not.

Most people compare by price or brand or marketing bull**** but that's not me.
I wish to compare by what matters.

I just don't know yet how to compare by quality for various synthetics.
I'll give the manufacturers a call starting with what's at Costco today.
https://www.costco.com/motor-oil.html

Kirkland (Warren Distribution is the blender in Omaha Nebraska).
https://warrendistribution.com/contact/
(800)825-1235

Mobil 1 (https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/contact-us)
(800)662-4525

Both are around $2.50 to around $3.00 per quart so price isn't the issue.
Both have the same specs on the container so I need to ask them more.

The issue is making a good decision but on this newsgroup almost
everything I've heard people are pulling out of their assholes.

Some dufuses even refuted what the articles said saying they
didn't say what they said while one pussy claimed shop manuals
didn't say what they say without producing any evidence at all.

As I've repeatedly said you can choose and change your oil on any
metric you like but just don't try to bull**** me & we will do fine.

I am not afraid to say that I do NOT yet know how to choose between
any two synthetic oils based on whats on the outside of the jug yet.

Alls I'm asking is if anyone here knows something about that choice
so that it can be made based on what's printed on the jug itself.

If it's not going to be printed on the jug itself then alls we
need is a reliable web site that isn't a shill that doesn't
spew bull**** and which actually tests oil for what matters.

Is that asking for too much from this newsgroup?

"mike" wrote in message
...
On 27-03-2021 05:00 Ed Pawlowski wrote:

The links are a bit contradictory.

I know exactly what the links said.
It's someone else who said the links didn't say what I said they said.

I'm not a believer in bull**** as you can probably tell by now.

First link says:
keep things simple by changing your oil filter every time

Nothing wrong with replacing your oil & filter every day of the week.
That's why I said it's OK whatever schedule others used.

Alls I said was the manufacturers often recommend every other interval.
Those who refuted that fact didn't produce a single reference.

You never supplied any evidence for your OFTEN claim.

I produced five.

Which doesnt qualify as OFTEN.

mike wrote
Clare Snyder wrote

OK, so Datsun (Nissan) and possibly Renault and MitsoShiity MIGHT
have that recommendation on SOME of their cars (although I suspect it is
Infinity specific - and POSSIBLY even model specific )

This is my last post to you "Clare" since you don't know nothin about
cars.

He does know a lot about cars and is a bigot about some stuff as well.

You have a girls name

Nope, his full name is Clarence. Bit hard to
shorten that one, tho we call ours Clarrie.

so I can't know if you pulled everything you said out of your asshole or
pussy but I quoted five references & you quoted none.

He didnt need to on that point that most manufacturers
do recommend changing the oil and filter at the same
time and it does make sense to not contaminate the
new oil with **** from the old filter.

You're so emotional that I suspect you're a girl

More fool you.

and you have never seen what is inside a factory manual

He has seen plenty and spent much of his life as a mechanic.

because two out of three I grabbed yesterday
say exactly what you say they don't say.

You called me a "turd" simply for saying what the shop manuals said.
You're emotional. Too emotional.

Corse you are nothing like that yourself, eh ?

I'm done with people like you who pull everything out of their pussies.

And thats not emotional ?

On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 05:16:17 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Richard addressing senile Rodent Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

mike wrote
Scott Dorsey wrote

Same way you compare any two oils.

Alls you have is the jug in your hand when you're at the store.

Nope, you can research what the store has online before you go there.

Do you know of any real reviews (unbiased, not shills, not bull****)?

The certification tests.

Viscosity breakdown with time, viscosity curve with temperature,
adhesion, solvent characteristics, ability to keep particulates in
solution, three-ball test, etc.

All oils "breakdown with time."

Yes, but some to that slower than others.

Nothing wrong with replacing oil every single day but I'm asking about
specifications for synthetic oil when the factory shop manual is followed.
https://addinol.de/en/products/lubri...pecifications/

There are standards for all this stuff and in general the European
standards are tighter than the US ones.

As the saying goes the problem is there are so many standards.

But some are better than others with oils.

On 3/27/2021 2:16 PM, mike wrote:

Alls I'm asking is if anyone here knows something about that choice
so that it can be made based on what's printed on the jug itself.

If it's not going to be printed on the jug itself then alls we need is a
reliable web site that isn't a shill that doesn't
spew bull**** and which actually tests oil for what matters.

Is that asking for too much from this newsgroup?

Yes. I don't think such a site exists.

On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 05:24:38 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Richard about senile Rodent:
"Rod Speed, a bare faced pig and ignorant ****."
MID:

On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 05:36:20 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


FLUSH more of the trolling senile cretin's latest troll**** unread

--
More senile "wisdom" from the senile Australian bull**** artist:
"Some things are much harder to do than others."
Message-ID:

On 3/27/2021 2:16 PM, mike wrote:

If it's not going to be printed on the jug itself then alls we need is a
reliable web site that isn't a shill that doesn't
spew bull**** and which actually tests oil for what matters.

So, do the tests and put it up.

Don't complain that information is missing from the internet. Information
only gets on the internet because people like you and I put it there.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 11:11:53 PM UTC-5, mike wrote:
On 24-03-2021 06:18 wrote:

Do those other stores match Costco sale prices?
Rural King kicks their ass.
I don't know of "Rural King" but google does.
https://www.ruralkingsupply.com/prod...at3=102&page=2

Rural King seems like a fantastic place for variety.

They even have 55 gallon containers of the stuff!
https://www.ruralkingsupply.com/item.php?id=10885

Need, right?

mk5000


And you would if you could
Oh it's impossible!
You would, if you could
You would, and you should
And you would if you could
But I don't!--me and my girl

On Wednesday, March 24, 2021 at 6:14:38 AM UTC-5, mike wrote:
On 24-03-2021 02:03 Paul in Houston TX wrote:

Where do you get full synthetic oil at API SP quality for ~$2.50/quart?

I get mine at Walmart for ~$3.10 per qt.
Thanks for answering that as I also tried Walmart but found, like you did,
that the prices are higher than at Costco (even before Costco sales).
I get the oil filters at an auto parts.
Nice thing about Auto Parts Stores is they have a choice of brands.


It does.

And the olive oil tapenade probably makes it even better.

The olive tapenade sandwich from the deli was just a thick stack of lunchmeat with some cheese. It was huge.
Too thick, too dry.

mk5000

Right then,
before landing on the other side. Thats the taste of olive oil.
It also tastes the way Madagascar sounds when you say it
backwards.--Paul Suntup

OLIVE OIL

On Wednesday, March 24, 2021 at 7:37:54 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 10:45:21 AM UTC-4, TimR wrote:
On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 8:08:50 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:


Then there are the fanatics that change synthetic oil every 5K miles or less,
that change the tranny, differential fluid and antifreeze every 20K miles and
only use the official dealer fluid.
I have a friend who drives older vehicles.

Every time he changes his oil, he also pulls the plug on the coolant and the transmission fluid. He doesn't drop the pan or make an effort to get all the fluids out, but he replaces the amount that did drain, and figures about every third times he's replaced it.

It seems to work for him, he gets a lot out of older vehicles.
I carry a amethyst stone for protection from tigers. It seems to work for me,
I haven't been attacked by any tigers.


You got to admit then that one looks excellent

mk5000

Mia Smoak: Who the hell is JJ?
Connor Hawke: He's my brother. John Jr.
Mia Smoak: [laughing] John Diggle has one son in Knigh****ch and another one who's leader of the Deathstroke Gang. That must make family dinners interesting.--Arrow (TV Series)
Spartan

On Wednesday, March 24, 2021 at 3:27:36 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 19:03:08 -0400, posted for all of us to
digest...


On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 23:20:33 +0530, mike
wrote:

Kids are on spring break so I changed their oil & filters.

Bought Costco oil but to my surprise they no longer sell dino juice.
Bought Mobil 1 oil filters at Walmart but they also had no dino juice.
Went to O'Reillys but their conventional was more expensive than synthetic.

I had Costco look up who had conventional oil and it turns out they
discounted their last cases of Chevron 10W30 SN & 10W40 SN conventional oils
to $9.97/10 quarts more than a year ago and haven't sold any conventional
motor oils since then at any Costco in my area.

Huh?
Since when is conventional oil hard to find in bulk?
Is this a new thing?

I'm not complaining or even asking whether the $25/10 quarts Kirkland fully
synthetic 5W30 SP oil is good or not as I know all about synthetic oil
advantages & disadvantages over conventional gasoline engine motor oils.

I'm just asking if you've also found it hard to find conventional oil by the
case at good prices (which means at your local Costco or department store)?

Rural King still had it the last time I was there and it is cheaper
than all of those places. .

http://www.ruralkingsupply.com/produ...t2=15&cat3=102

Harvest King oil... Well, I be gol danged. Does it have fiber?


Except if they put it on provolone and Black Forest ham, this sounds pretty good.

The muffuletta that Ive had from the Italian deli here, probably had some fiber in the bread but I did not like. Too dry with all kinds of meats (and too many) that I did not enjoy.

mk5000

Christopher Moltisanti: (about Furio Giunta) He's with us now?
Tony Soprano: Uhuh...
Christopher Moltisanti: Guess I didn't get the memo.
Tony Soprano: Would you have read it if you got one?--Big Girls Don't Cry, The Sopranos: Season 2

On 27-03-2021 19:33 Scott Dorsey wrote:

So, do the tests and put it up.

There is plenty of information already on filter teardowns and conventional
oil so what we need I think is only a good place to get unbiased synthetic
oil comparisons which I always start with the specs and move up from there.

Trusting you said the euro specs seem to be better this is I think a good
overall summary of the different euro specifications I'll put on my phone.
https://addinol.de/en/products/lubri...pecifications/

Don't complain that information is missing from the internet.

Luckily a lot of people have asked the question I asked as here are some
questions and answers for the synthetics sold by Costco in the USA
https://www.costco.com/motor-oil.html

https://autotroop.com/do-you-know-wh...and-motor-oil/
https://community.cartalk.com/t/test...tor-oil/162771
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/th...obil-1.324246/
https://www.quora.com/How-does-Kirkl...are-to-Mobil-1
https://www.toyotanation.com/threads...c-oil.1677645/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Costco/comm..._think_pretty/
https://www.kia-forums.com/threads/k...l-test.345327/
https://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/...-oil/91077555/

The UK people have a different set of oils to be looking at
https://www.costco.co.uk/Tyres-Autom...ds/c/cos_8.6.4

Information
only gets on the internet because people like you and I put it there.

Most of these synthetic motor oil comparison reviews appear to be shills
https://www.bestproducts.com/cars/pa...car-motor-oil/
https://motorday.com/best-synthetic-oils/
https://popular.reviews/best-synthetic-motor-oils/
https://pickup-world.com/best-0w20-synthetic-oil/

This is perhaps the best I've found so far
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9il_piyuT8

What have you found?

On Wednesday, March 24, 2021 at 3:33:57 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 00:41:14 -0400, posted for all of us to
digest...


On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 20:58:50 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:


On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 1:50:40 PM UTC-4, mike wrote:

I'm not complaining or even asking whether the $25/10 quarts Kirkland fully
synthetic 5W30 SP oil is good or not as I know all about synthetic oil
advantages & disadvantages over conventional gasoline engine motor oils.

I'm just asking if you've also found it hard to find conventional oil by the
case at good prices (which means at your local Costco or department store)?

My VW came with dire warnings not to put anything but the recommended dealer oil in. But it's new enough not to leak down, so not a worry for a while.

Conventional and synthetic oils both start with the same raw dino juice though. The only difference is in the refining. Both have a range of different molecular weight oils, but the synthetic has a much tighter range.


Synthetics are superior to conventional oils. I've witnessed testing
and the difference is amazing. The test i saw showed a small engine
seizing on conventional oil at 5000 rpm but would run forever on
synthetic at 8000 rpm.

I really think people obsess about oil. Cars are scrapped for a dozen
other reason long before they fail from a failure related to the oil.
If you are using any genuine API rated oil suitable for your engine
and change it occasionally your engine will outlast the car at least
as much as the oil would affect.
+1 I guess Clare could give an idea about oil related destruction. I think the
problem spot on engines now is the VVT mechanism. As on SNL "We will pump you
up"



Good, at least covid is off your mind
Ok have a good evening

mk5000

The Mind can think only one thought at a time. If your mind is occupied by a meaningless thought, you block a meaningful thought from entering it.--RVM

In article , mike wrote:
On 27-03-2021 17:01 Scott Dorsey wrote:

Viscosity breakdown with time,
viscosity curve with temperature, adhesion, solvent characteristics,
ability to keep particulates in solution, three-ball test, etc.

All oils "breakdown with time."

Yes, that's why you test it. It's been forty years since I took tribo class,
but at the time there was a standard measurement with a rotating drum inside
a stationary drum that creates high shear on the test sample. You measure
viscosity regularly and plot it against time.

Clean linear paraffin oils did well on the test, oils with a lot of
crosslinking or rings did poorly.

You'd think a "synthetic oil" base would be pure linear paraffin chains with a
very narrow range of molecular weights and you might be right or you might
be terribly wrong, depending. Also, of course, the VI breaks down, not just
the base oil.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 27-03-2021 21:14 Scott Dorsey wrote:

Yes, that's why you test it.

Of course.

Under the logic of most people here they should replace the oil daily.
That's because it breaks down daily.

The filter too.
Every day you replace the oil & filter and they won't break down too much.

But that's not the way the world works.
Instead you follow whatever specs your manufacturer recommends you follow.

That's why specifications matter.
That's why the specs that matter are usually printed on the oil container.

It's not a matter of price or convenience which most others claimed it was.
It's a matter of knowledge and understanding of meaningful specifications.

Alls these other people know are dollar bills.
They make all their decisions based only on money.

That's fine.
It works for them.

But I like to make my decisions based on an understanding of the product.
And specs are part of that understanding of the product (for synthetic oil).

I am wide open about not knowing how to compare two different synthetics.
At least not yet.

I don't see anyone else here who knows anything about synthetic oil though.

Everything almost everyone else said they pulled out of their own assholes.
Especially the ones who claimed it was all about money and not about specs.

They can't understand what the product is as they only understand money.
Everyone understands money (even me) so it's easy (for them) to decide.

But I like to make my decisions based on meaningfully relevent
specifications which I openly admit I don't know what they are just yet.

But neither does anyone else (at least not those who have responded).
So I guess I'm on my own.

It's been forty years since I took tribo class,
but at the time there was a standard measurement with a rotating drum inside
a stationary drum that creates high shear on the test sample. You measure
viscosity regularly and plot it against time.

Isn't all that supposed to be encompassed meaningfully within the oil spec?

Clean linear paraffin oils did well on the test, oils with a lot of
crosslinking or rings did poorly.

You'd think a "synthetic oil" base would be pure linear paraffin chains with a
very narrow range of molecular weights and you might be right or you might
be terribly wrong, depending. Also, of course, the VI breaks down, not just
the base oil.

I tried calling both Chevron & Warren Distribution but I'll have to wait
till Monday to get their technical people on the line.

Sometimes they tell us a lot and sometimes they just spit out the
advertising so it's a crap shoot whether or not that call will bear fruit.

I think the best test so far of the Kirkland synthetic oil was this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9il_piyuT8

And I think the best single description of the (euro) specs is this one.
https://addinol.de/en/products/lubri...pecifications/

If you have something better by all means please let me and all know.