Bill wrote in :

Puckdropper wrote:

Brad point drill bits are great for woodworking. They have a really
sharp point on the end (like a nail) and sometimes a couple of "spur"
points on the edges. This makes the bit cut a really clean circle
without wandering.


Yes, I collected a small set of those. I'm not sure if they make them
in 1/8" sizes as are applicable for pre-drilling. If I see one on my
next trip to the store, I'll get it.


I haven't had any trouble with bits smaller than 1/8" wandering. It
might be that it's easier to put greater pressure on the tip, so it stays
in place, or it might just be that the cutting edge dig in rather than
gripping.

If you want to experiment, watch for Menards to have a sale on their
drill bits. There's a set with twist and brad point bits that
occasionally goes on sale for less than a buck after in-store rebate. I
think there's 18 bits total, 12 twist and 6 brad point. They're sold
under the Tool Shop brand. The size range goes from really small (1/16?)
to 5/16".

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Bill wrote:

Somehow it didn't occur to me until now that, in this project, EVERY
ONE of my screws will be attaching 2by-materials to 4by4s.

With all of that planning and Sketchup work? Bill... shame on you...

I
exchanged my deck screws for 3" ones today, but I will get longer
ones if that may give better performance.

Please don't. 2 1/2 would have done the job just fine, but the 3" will work
fine as well. Just... Do it!

I would rather swap them
now than have something become loose. What would be best? Box of
screws says, "pre-drilling recommended". Just drill 2/3 of the way,
right?

Drill through holes in the piecres you will be attaching to the 4x4. Then
just run them in. Did you not read the post I made about this very thing?


I'm glad to own a DW 10-Amp drill. It would be nice if it had a
clutch, but it makes easy work of long screws! It's among my "Best
Bang for the buck" tools, with my Sears ShopVac at the top!


I will be enough for the task at hand. That's no super drill, but it should
serve you well for a long time.


I'm looking forward to having a sturdy bench with a vise--projects
await!

We're looking forward to you getting it done and posting pictures.

--

-Mike-

Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:




You're thinking about this too much Bill.

I think I am best judge of that.

It does not appear so.


"Give me a fish and I eat for a day; teach me to fish and I eat for a
lifetime..."--Chinese proverb.


No - it goes like this... light a man a fire and keep him warm for a day.
Light a man on fire and keep him warm for life. Sheese... get it right if
you're going to quote the old guys...

--

-Mike-

Puckdropper wrote:

For predrilling, a chart like this first Google result can be
consulted: http://www.wlfuller.com/html/what_size___.html


Ugh!!! You had to go and complicate this didnt' ya?...

--

-Mike-

Puckdropper wrote:

If you want to experiment, watch for Menards to have a sale on their
drill bits.

That's where I've been shopping. Concerning 1/8" drill bits.
They had a package of 2 "Vermont" (brand) for $2.69, and a package of
*10* "Master Force" Titanium bits for $2.99.

I bought the former. Did I miss a bargain?

BTW, I exchanged my workbench screws for longer ones that are 3 1/2"
long. I modified the design a little for a extra strength too.
Plan and materials in hand, execution should be quick.

What are you working on Puck?

Bill

Bill wrote:


I've used a hammer and nail, just to help the drill start in the right
place--I've found it has some tendency to twist away from where you
point it!


Hey Bill - you are not building a replica of a french table here. Just
drill the hole with what ever you have. Hell - I could cut that hole with a
jack knife and be close enough. Really - any wander you get, or any other
amount of imprecise product you end up with, is going to be moot. You are
(yet again...) spending too much time thinking about things. If you would
just put tool to wood, you would discover the answers to so many of the
things you keep berating this group with. So what if you screw up? Just
fix it and move on. You are building a simple table here and despite all of
your planning and Sketchuping and all that other crap - what could have and
should have been knocked together in a couple of hours, has now gone on for
weeks. Do you ever get off the dime?

--

-Mike-

On Sun, 13 May 2012 22:48:08 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
your planning and Sketchuping and all that other crap - what could have and
should have been knocked together in a couple of hours, has now gone on for
weeks. Do you ever get off the dime?

Give it up Mike. He's going to do it his own way whatever suggestions
you have about it.

Dave wrote:
On Sun, 13 May 2012 22:48:08 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
your planning and Sketchuping and all that other crap - what could
have and should have been knocked together in a couple of hours, has
now gone on for weeks. Do you ever get off the dime?

Give it up Mike. He's going to do it his own way whatever suggestions
you have about it.

I guess. But - I like the guy. He seems like a very nice guy. If there
were ever a way to get him to just do something without all of the
questions, he'd be thrilled at what he learned and accomplished. I'd
actually love to see that on his behalf.

--

-Mike-

Mike Marlow wrote:
Do you ever get off the dime?


I bought my materials for the bench Friday. I paid Menards about
$25 to rent a truck, so it was convenient to get my lumber all at once.

I plan to fix my broken AC tomorrow, and
assuming I can get the blade off the old motor,
I should be good-to-go-to-work on the bench!

There are a few small projects I want to make on
the bench -and that should be satisfying (too).

Then I can resume some of my old favs: EMT, lighting,
light coat on the drywall, and painting, not necessarily
in that order.

Have you got some projects going and/or planned?

We can kick each other in the ... I mean motivate each other! : )

Bill

Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Do you ever get off the dime?


I bought my materials for the bench Friday. I paid Menards about
$25 to rent a truck, so it was convenient to get my lumber all at
once.

Was talking about your propensity for coming up with new questions rather
than engaging. I did understand that you bought your lumber. Ready, set,
go Bill...!


I plan to fix my broken AC tomorrow, and
assuming I can get the blade off the old motor,
I should be good-to-go-to-work on the bench!

Good luck on the AC. Hope it goes well.


Have you got some projects going and/or planned?

Always. Both going, and planned.


--

-Mike-

Dave wrote:
On Sun, 13 May 2012 22:48:08 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
your planning and Sketchuping and all that other crap - what could have and
should have been knocked together in a couple of hours, has now gone on for
weeks. Do you ever get off the dime?

Give it up Mike. He's going to do it his own way whatever suggestions
you have about it.

That's not true at all. However the "design phase" is mostly over.

I made one minor change today..like the master painter's final brush
stroke (not exactly--I sacrificed form for function)! I hope to be able
to show you what you've help create later this week!

Mike Marlow wrote:

If there
were ever a way to get him to just do something without all of the
questions, he'd be thrilled at what he learned and accomplished. I'd
actually love to see that on his behalf.

I figuring out, by myself, how one pole powered my 220v AC motor
yesterday. The analysis only took me about 45 seconds, but it took me
quite a few hours to prepare to do that 45 seconds worth of work. The
end of those 45 seconds brought a thrill. I learned, or relearned a few
things about woodworking and woodcarving this weekend too. That was
exciting too. What these have in common is that I was asking questions
(in most cases, to myself). Read my previous post about EMT, lighting,
drywall, etc. to see that I am in fact "accomplishing" (at least in my
opinion). Like most people, I think, I find some days or weeks more
productive than others. I will concede that in some cases (like with my
drywall), I may be being more meticulous than the circumstances warrant.
There was an old (late 70s) country song, "Life's a dance (you learn
as you go...)". It was a good 'un.

Don't you have any questions? I think learning and sharing are two of
the better spices of life. At least among the ones that mostly don't
get you into any trouble! ; )

Cheers,
Bill

Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:

If there
were ever a way to get him to just do something without all of the
questions, he'd be thrilled at what he learned and accomplished. I'd
actually love to see that on his behalf.

I figuring out, by myself, how one pole powered my 220v AC motor
yesterday. The analysis only took me about 45 seconds, but it took me
quite a few hours to prepare to do that 45 seconds worth of work.

Just a heads up - you do understand that circuit is a 230v circuit, right?
Both legs are powering your motor. Not trying to correct you here, but that
is an important aspect to understand when working with this stuff. It's
different than 110v with a hot, neutral and ground. Both legs going to your
new motor are hot. Would not want to see you get bitten by this.


The
end of those 45 seconds brought a thrill. I learned, or relearned a
few things about woodworking and woodcarving this weekend too. That
was exciting too. What these have in common is that I was asking
questions (in most cases, to myself). Read my previous post about
EMT, lighting, drywall, etc. to see that I am in fact "accomplishing"
(at least in my opinion).

Well - learning is certainly rewarding, I'll give you that. As for feeling
that you are accomplishing something - well then, that's how it should be.
That is after all, a big part of why we do these things (if we're not in it
for buisiness).

Don't you have any questions?

Constantly.

I think learning and sharing are two of
the better spices of life. At least among the ones that mostly don't
get you into any trouble! ; )


I think sex tops them all!

--

-Mike-

On Mon, 14 May 2012 01:25:44 -0400, Bill wrote:

Mike Marlow wrote:

If there
were ever a way to get him to just do something without all of the
questions, he'd be thrilled at what he learned and accomplished. I'd
actually love to see that on his behalf.

I figuring out, by myself, how one pole powered my 220v AC motor
yesterday. The analysis only took me about 45 seconds, but it took me
quite a few hours to prepare to do that 45 seconds worth of work. The
end of those 45 seconds brought a thrill. I learned, or relearned a few
things about woodworking and woodcarving this weekend too. That was
exciting too. What these have in common is that I was asking questions
(in most cases, to myself). Read my previous post about EMT, lighting,
drywall, etc. to see that I am in fact "accomplishing" (at least in my
opinion). Like most people, I think, I find some days or weeks more
productive than others. I will concede that in some cases (like with my
drywall), I may be being more meticulous than the circumstances warrant.
There was an old (late 70s) country song, "Life's a dance (you learn
as you go...)". It was a good 'un.

"Life is a nose, an' ya better not pick it..." That one?


Don't you have any questions? I think learning and sharing are two of
the better spices of life. At least among the ones that mostly don't
get you into any trouble! ; )

Ditto that, Bill!

I got a new config file (.xml) for Mach and actually got movement
(motors on the floor in my office.) for the first time, so I'm
learning things these days, too. We'll set up the chain drives on the
CNC router tomorrow afternoon and Wednesday morning. The vertical
cliff I see ahead of me is the learning curve for Mach3, g-code
programming, BobCAD, and BobARTpro, but I have the training DVDs for
BobCAD.

And, of course, it's all coming together just as my busy season kicks
into high gear...

--
In an industrial society which confuses work and productivity, the
necessity of producing has always been an enemy of the desire to create.
-- Raoul Vaneigem

Bill wrote in :

Puckdropper wrote:

If you want to experiment, watch for Menards to have a sale on their
drill bits.

That's where I've been shopping. Concerning 1/8" drill bits.
They had a package of 2 "Vermont" (brand) for $2.69, and a package of
*10* "Master Force" Titanium bits for $2.99.

I bought the former. Did I miss a bargain?

Nah... They're cheap enough to buy 2 even when not on sale.

BTW, I exchanged my workbench screws for longer ones that are 3 1/2"
long. I modified the design a little for a extra strength too.
Plan and materials in hand, execution should be quick.

Once you get past a certain length, the added length of the screw becomes
a vulnerability rather than an asset. They need to be "long enough" to
get solid contact with the wood, but not so long that they risk poking
out.

Once you get enough screw into the wood to hold it securely, the screw is
long enough. Experiment and learn.

What are you working on Puck?

Bill

I'm working on setting pressure treated boards on fire with a router.
It's an interesting proposition, but it is easier to take a stick lighter
down to the fire pit with a bucketful of plane shavings.

The pressure treated is for a deck rail I'm adding. The stair rail is
done, not I've got to add a railing between that post and the door.
Should be done in less time than it takes to calculate how much material
I need.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:

If there
were ever a way to get him to just do something without all of the
questions, he'd be thrilled at what he learned and accomplished. I'd
actually love to see that on his behalf.

I figuring out, by myself, how one pole powered my 220v AC motor
yesterday. The analysis only took me about 45 seconds, but it took me
quite a few hours to prepare to do that 45 seconds worth of work.

Just a heads up - you do understand that circuit is a 230v circuit, right?
Both legs are powering your motor. Not trying to correct you here, but that
is an important aspect to understand when working with this stuff.

That is what I expected too, and that is the reason I found it so
frustrating (since I had already accepted what you wrote as
fundamental). However I strongly believe it is wrong. One pole is
powering that 230v motor and its capacitor (I think you meant "pole"
rather than "legs" above). I think the experts use the term
"split-pole", although I couldn't locate decent reference online. When I
described the phenomenon as I saw it, Stormin' Mormon provided me with
the terminology.

Bill

Puckdropper wrote:
wrote in :

What are you working on Puck?

I'm working on setting pressure treated boards on fire with a router.
It's an interesting proposition, but it is easier to take a stick lighter
down to the fire pit with a bucketful of plane shavings.

The pressure treated is for a deck rail I'm adding. The stair rail is
done, not I've got to add a railing between that post and the door.
Should be done in less time than it takes to calculate how much material
I need.


Working on something you'll use so much has more than one benefit!
Keep a bucket of water handy! : )

Bill

Puckdropper

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 14 May 2012 01:25:44 -0400, wrote:
I will concede that in some cases (like with my
drywall), I may be being more meticulous than the circumstances warrant.
There was an old (late 70s) country song, "Life's a dance (you learn
as you go...)". It was a good 'un.

"Life is a nose, an' ya better not pick it..." That one?

Yep, that's the one. So sweet to my ears. : )



Don't you have any questions? I think learning and sharing are two of
the better spices of life. At least among the ones that mostly don't
get you into any trouble! ; )

Ditto that, Bill!

I got a new config file (.xml) for Mach and actually got movement
(motors on the floor in my office.) for the first time, so I'm
learning things these days, too. We'll set up the chain drives on the
CNC router tomorrow afternoon and Wednesday morning. The vertical
cliff I see ahead of me is the learning curve for Mach3, g-code
programming, BobCAD, and BobARTpro, but I have the training DVDs for
BobCAD.

And, of course, it's all coming together just as my busy season kicks
into high gear...

I will look forward to seeing what you can do with your new equipment!

Bill


--
In an industrial society which confuses work and productivity, the
necessity of producing has always been an enemy of the desire to create.
-- Raoul Vaneigem

Bill writes:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:

If there
were ever a way to get him to just do something without all of the
questions, he'd be thrilled at what he learned and accomplished. I'd
actually love to see that on his behalf.

I figuring out, by myself, how one pole powered my 220v AC motor
yesterday. The analysis only took me about 45 seconds, but it took me
quite a few hours to prepare to do that 45 seconds worth of work.

Just a heads up - you do understand that circuit is a 230v circuit, right?
Both legs are powering your motor. Not trying to correct you here, but that
is an important aspect to understand when working with this stuff.

That is what I expected too, and that is the reason I found it so
frustrating (since I had already accepted what you wrote as
fundamental). However I strongly believe it is wrong. One pole is
powering that 230v motor and its capacitor (I think you meant "pole"
rather than "legs" above).

One pole _cannot_ power a motor.

I think the experts use the term
"split-pole", although I couldn't locate decent reference online. When I
described the phenomenon as I saw it, Stormin' Mormon provided me with
the terminology.

Don't get your terminology from a missionary.

scott

Scott Lurndal wrote:
writes:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:

If there
were ever a way to get him to just do something without all of the
questions, he'd be thrilled at what he learned and accomplished. I'd
actually love to see that on his behalf.

I figuring out, by myself, how one pole powered my 220v AC motor
yesterday. The analysis only took me about 45 seconds, but it took me
quite a few hours to prepare to do that 45 seconds worth of work.

Just a heads up - you do understand that circuit is a 230v circuit, right?
Both legs are powering your motor. Not trying to correct you here, but that
is an important aspect to understand when working with this stuff.

That is what I expected too, and that is the reason I found it so
frustrating (since I had already accepted what you wrote as
fundamental). However I strongly believe it is wrong. One pole is
powering that 230v motor and its capacitor (I think you meant "pole"
rather than "legs" above).

One pole _cannot_ power a motor.

Well, There is a wire connected to Common. There are a couple connected
to a capacitor to start the motor, as well.




I think the experts use the term
"split-pole", although I couldn't locate decent reference online. When I
described the phenomenon as I saw it, Stormin' Mormon provided me with
the terminology.

Don't get your terminology from a missionary.

I don't discriminate with regard to religion.


scott

Bill wrote:
Scott Lurndal wrote:

One pole _cannot_ power a motor.

Well, There is a wire connected to Common. There are a couple connected
to a capacitor to start the motor, as well.


Are those 2 enough Scott, assuming something gives the motor a push to
get it started?

Bill

On Mon, 14 May 2012 15:58:02 -0400, Bill wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 14 May 2012 01:25:44 -0400, wrote:
I will concede that in some cases (like with my
drywall), I may be being more meticulous than the circumstances warrant.
There was an old (late 70s) country song, "Life's a dance (you learn
as you go...)". It was a good 'un.

"Life is a nose, an' ya better not pick it..." That one?

Yep, that's the one. So sweet to my ears. : )

Doan pick yer ears, neither, son.


Don't you have any questions? I think learning and sharing are two of
the better spices of life. At least among the ones that mostly don't
get you into any trouble! ; )

Ditto that, Bill!

I got a new config file (.xml) for Mach and actually got movement
(motors on the floor in my office.) for the first time, so I'm
learning things these days, too. We'll set up the chain drives on the
CNC router tomorrow afternoon and Wednesday morning. The vertical
cliff I see ahead of me is the learning curve for Mach3, g-code
programming, BobCAD, and BobARTpro, but I have the training DVDs for
BobCAD.

And, of course, it's all coming together just as my busy season kicks
into high gear...

I will look forward to seeing what you can do with your new equipment!

Ditto here. I'll post pics of the assembly process along with output
as soon as possible.

--
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Bill writes:
Bill wrote:
Scott Lurndal wrote:

One pole _cannot_ power a motor.

Well, There is a wire connected to Common. There are a couple connected
to a capacitor to start the motor, as well.


Are those 2 enough Scott, assuming something gives the motor a push to
get it started?

Bill


If you don't have the wiring diagram for the motor (which should have come with it),
and you don't have one in the installation instructions for the compressor, or you
don't have the electrical experience to understand what should be connected to what
in a 240VAC 30+ amp branch circuit, you probably shouldn't be doing it without someone
to check your work before you attempt to energize the circuit.

scott

Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:

If there
were ever a way to get him to just do something without all of the
questions, he'd be thrilled at what he learned and accomplished. I'd
actually love to see that on his behalf.

I figuring out, by myself, how one pole powered my 220v AC motor
yesterday. The analysis only took me about 45 seconds, but it took
me quite a few hours to prepare to do that 45 seconds worth of work.

Just a heads up - you do understand that circuit is a 230v circuit,
right? Both legs are powering your motor. Not trying to correct you
here, but that is an important aspect to understand when working
with this stuff.

That is what I expected too, and that is the reason I found it so
frustrating (since I had already accepted what you wrote as
fundamental). However I strongly believe it is wrong. One pole is
powering that 230v motor and its capacitor (I think you meant "pole"
rather than "legs" above). I think the experts use the term
"split-pole", although I couldn't locate decent reference online.
When I described the phenomenon as I saw it, Stormin' Mormon provided
me with the terminology.


Well - you can call it pole or leg - no matter. You can't power a 230v
motor with only one leg in US residential wiring. You have to send two 120
legs that are 180 degrees out of phase with each other - just as it comes in
from the transformer from the power company. You absolutely need two 120v
legs. Be very careful Bill - you are messing with stuff you do not
understand. As long as you make sure the breaker is off, you will be fine.
Then - just hook everything up the way it all came out. It is clear you do
not understand the electricity you are working with and that's not an
insult, but it does mandate expressing caution.

--

-Mike-

Bill wrote:
Scott Lurndal wrote:
writes:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:

If there
were ever a way to get him to just do something without all of
the questions, he'd be thrilled at what he learned and
accomplished. I'd actually love to see that on his behalf.

I figuring out, by myself, how one pole powered my 220v AC motor
yesterday. The analysis only took me about 45 seconds, but it
took me quite a few hours to prepare to do that 45 seconds worth
of work.

Just a heads up - you do understand that circuit is a 230v
circuit, right? Both legs are powering your motor. Not trying to
correct you here, but that is an important aspect to understand
when working with this stuff.

That is what I expected too, and that is the reason I found it so
frustrating (since I had already accepted what you wrote as
fundamental). However I strongly believe it is wrong. One pole is
powering that 230v motor and its capacitor (I think you meant "pole"
rather than "legs" above).

One pole _cannot_ power a motor.

Well, There is a wire connected to Common. There are a couple
connected to a capacitor to start the motor, as well.


Bill - this was explained to you in the HVAC group - there is no common.
You have two hot wires - each with 120v on them. Please do not argue with
anyone about this stuff. Many of us really do understand what you do not
(yet...), and in this case it is not a matter to take lightly and ignore
advice.

--

-Mike-

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:

If there
were ever a way to get him to just do something without all of the
questions, he'd be thrilled at what he learned and accomplished. I'd
actually love to see that on his behalf.

I figuring out, by myself, how one pole powered my 220v AC motor
yesterday. The analysis only took me about 45 seconds, but it took
me quite a few hours to prepare to do that 45 seconds worth of work.

Just a heads up - you do understand that circuit is a 230v circuit,
right? Both legs are powering your motor. Not trying to correct you
here, but that is an important aspect to understand when working
with this stuff.

That is what I expected too, and that is the reason I found it so
frustrating (since I had already accepted what you wrote as
fundamental). However I strongly believe it is wrong. One pole is
powering that 230v motor and its capacitor (I think you meant "pole"
rather than "legs" above). I think the experts use the term
"split-pole", although I couldn't locate decent reference online.
When I described the phenomenon as I saw it, Stormin' Mormon provided
me with the terminology.


Well - you can call it pole or leg - no matter. You can't power a 230v
motor with only one leg in US residential wiring. You have to send two 120
legs that are 180 degrees out of phase with each other - just as it comes in
from the transformer from the power company. You absolutely need two 120v
legs. Be very careful Bill - you are messing with stuff you do not
understand. As long as you make sure the breaker is off, you will be fine.
Then - just hook everything up the way it all came out. It is clear you do
not understand the electricity you are working with and that's not an
insult, but it does mandate expressing caution.


I was just previewing a book on motors at Half Price Books, in a chair.
And it revealed that the phrase I was looking for is "phase-split" not
"pole-split" as SM suggested. Evidently the capacitor causes a
90-degree phase shift from a single pole. Do you know alot about that
stuff?

Yes, I can wire the motor from previous connections (but I am still
trying to understand anyway). BTW, the old motor had 3 wire and the
new one has 4, and I still understand what I needs to do to replace the
motor. I still believe that the motor is running from 1 pole, not two,
and the wiriing diagram seems to support that. I suggest that the phase
shift needed is coming from the capacitor. Are you sure I'm wrong and
you're not? I don't want you to end up with egg on your face.

Bill

Bill wrote:


I was just previewing a book on motors at Half Price Books, in a
chair. And it revealed that the phrase I was looking for is
"phase-split" not "pole-split" as SM suggested. Evidently the
capacitor causes a 90-degree phase shift from a single pole. Do you
know alot about that stuff?

That is for starting, not running.


Yes, I can wire the motor from previous connections (but I am still
trying to understand anyway). BTW, the old motor had 3 wire and the
new one has 4, and I still understand what I needs to do to replace
the motor. I still believe that the motor is running from 1 pole,


NO!!!!! Bill you do not understand this stuff. The motor is running off of
2 120v legs - each 180 degress out of phase with each other. Across both of
them you derive the 240v. The motor CANNOT run from one leg. I don't know
how they wire the contactor in those things - never looked at one, or at a
wiring diagram, but I can assure you - you have 2 legs of 120v running that
motor. I highly doubt that they only switch one leg as Stormin Mormon
stated over at alt.hvac. There are too many issues with his statement than
I care to take up here. As for your own interpretation of the wiring
diagram - I can't say you are wrong because I have not seen the diagram.
But - I can tell you that indeed you are wrong, because you need to have
both of those legs and anything you are intrepreting from the diagram is
wrong. You just cannot run a 240v motor on one leg.

not two, and the wiriing diagram seems to support that. I suggest
that the phase shift needed is coming from the capacitor.

I suggest that you do not understand electricity and should not make such
statements. That is simply wrong.

Are you
sure I'm wrong and you're not?

Nope - not at all. After all - you've read the wiring diagram and do not
even know the difference between 120v and 240v - so... you must be right.
I'm done with this. My last word is my caution to you Bill - kill the
breaker before you begin any work. You are dangerous!

I don't want you to end up with egg
on your face.

Oh please...

--

-Mike-

Bill

Scott Lurndal wrote:
writes:
Bill wrote:
Scott Lurndal wrote:

One pole _cannot_ power a motor.

Well, There is a wire connected to Common. There are a couple connected
to a capacitor to start the motor, as well.


Are those 2 enough Scott, assuming something gives the motor a push to
get it started?

Bill


If you don't have the wiring diagram for the motor (which should have come with it),

BTW, we are talkin about the OFM (Outdoor Fan Motor). The wiring
diagram on the motor indicates the Brown and Brown/W wire go to the
capacitor, and that Black and Yellow are Line (which to me, means that I
will attach them to the switched side of the connector). I have the
wiring digram for the condenser unit (from which the new configuration
differs in at least 2 ways).

Actually, the person at the electrical supply told me that the yellow
wire went to Common. Common is indirectly related to the other pole, so
maybe that's where the confusion is coming from.

I would have done the install today, except I replaced my fuse and I
wanted to let my crankcase heater run for a while before I do the swap.


and you don't have one in the installation instructions for the compressor, or you
don't have the electrical experience to understand what should be connected to what
in a 240VAC 30+ amp branch circuit, you probably shouldn't be doing it without someone
to check your work before you attempt to energize the circuit.

At this point, I have little concern about how to do the replacement.
I'd still like to know about the yellows wires though. If yellow
correspond to the other pole, where in the heck is common?

Here is a link to the (old) wiring digram expect that I have
2 capacitors (rather than a dual one)

http://www.docs.hvacpartners.com/idc...t/38byc-2w.pdf

Where is COMMON shown on the diagram? I was thinking that both poles
wanted to "return" on COMMON. Please help me out with this if I am
mistaken. The diagram seems to suggest yellow may be hot, and I'm okay
with that (that was actually bothering me). I'll install the motor
correctly. But where is Common?

Thank you,
Bill



scott

Mike Marlow wrote:

NO!!!!! Bill you do not understand this stuff.

Stormin' Morman clarified over at alt.hvac that 230v systems usually
DON'T HAVE A COMMON. That greatly simplifies and resolves most of the
matters on the table.

Sorry for any frustration I may have caused you about this.

Bill

Subject

Bill, you are an accident waiting to happen.

Trying to save a few bucks is going to end up killing you way you are
proceeding.

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
Subject

Bill, you are an accident waiting to happen.

Trying to save a few bucks is going to end up killing you way you are
proceeding.

Lew



Naw, there has never been a doubt about where the wires go (they
basically go where the existing ones are). Understanding more has been
a bit of a struggle--I had to relearn some things I may have forgotten,
not having used them. I think I can replace 4 wires w/o killing myself.

I have been amusing myself by considering what it would take to build a
transformer to do "wood burning". Now that sounds more like something I
could get into trouble with...

Hope you are doing well,
Bill

Scott Lurndal wrote:
writes:

One pole _cannot_ power a motor.

Scott,

The source of the confusion was

(1) The electric supplier, who evidently mis-spoke about what I needed
to do: She said to "Attach yellow to common".
(2) My thought that a pole should run to common which was reinforced in
part, by
(3) The video below, in which the speaker refers over and over to one of
nodes of the capacitor as Common (and he may be correct in some context).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8mEE9bFBtY

I, of course, am responsbile for my actions. And (what people don't
always appreciate is), I haven't performed any yet! But I feel
comfortable following the outline in the video above (2nd half).

Thank you, everyone, for the assistance you have provided me with.

Bill

On 5/14/2012 8:13 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:


I was just previewing a book on motors at Half Price Books, in a
chair. And it revealed that the phrase I was looking for is
"phase-split" not "pole-split" as SM suggested. Evidently the
capacitor causes a 90-degree phase shift from a single pole. Do you
know alot about that stuff?

That is for starting, not running.


Yes, I can wire the motor from previous connections (but I am still
trying to understand anyway). BTW, the old motor had 3 wire and the
new one has 4, and I still understand what I needs to do to replace
the motor. I still believe that the motor is running from 1 pole,


NO!!!!! Bill you do not understand this stuff. The motor is running off of
2 120v legs - each 180 degress out of phase with each other. Across both of
them you derive the 240v. The motor CANNOT run from one leg. I don't know
how they wire the contactor in those things - never looked at one, or at a
wiring diagram, but I can assure you - you have 2 legs of 120v running that
motor. I highly doubt that they only switch one leg as Stormin Mormon
stated over at alt.hvac. There are too many issues with his statement than
I care to take up here. As for your own interpretation of the wiring
diagram - I can't say you are wrong because I have not seen the diagram.
But - I can tell you that indeed you are wrong, because you need to have
both of those legs and anything you are intrepreting from the diagram is
wrong. You just cannot run a 240v motor on one leg.

not two, and the wiriing diagram seems to support that. I suggest
that the phase shift needed is coming from the capacitor.

I suggest that you do not understand electricity and should not make such
statements. That is simply wrong.

Are you
sure I'm wrong and you're not?

Nope - not at all. After all - you've read the wiring diagram and do not
even know the difference between 120v and 240v - so... you must be right.
I'm done with this. My last word is my caution to you Bill - kill the
breaker before you begin any work. You are dangerous!

I don't want you to end up with egg
on your face.

Oh please...


here you go, very apropos for this discussion

http://cdn.svcs.c2.uclick.com/c2/faccb1307b7f012f2fe000163e41dd5b?width=900.0

chaniarts wrote:

here you go, very apropos for this discussion

http://cdn.svcs.c2.uclick.com/c2/faccb1307b7f012f2fe000163e41dd5b?width=900.0



Oh, Please. Some of you don't understand "thinking out loud".

I did replace the fan today. The wires are about 18"-24" short, so
I'll have to complete the job tomorrow. I think I'll need one of those
hair-dryer-like blowers to cover my splices. Not only that, from what
I've learned around these parts, it seems like there ought to be a
"connector" where the fans wires pass through an approximately 1"
diameter hole in the metal to get into the electrical panel (for the
condensor unit), but there is not.

FYI/FWIW:
I had a dual capacitor system, the dual capacitor will still power
the compressor. New fan motor now gets its own capacitor,

New motor has 4 wires:

Both Brown & Brown/Whitestripe are going to the new capacitor (as
labeled on the motor). Black and Yellow are labeled as Line.
Black is going where it always did (thank you, Black),
and Yellow (remember Yellow?), it going to be wired
to the terminal labeled "Common" on the dual capacitor.
This is equivalent to connecting it to the switched side of the
contactor (as there is another yellow wire from there to the terminal
mentioned above labeled Common). Therefore I believe I am being
faitherful to the the wiring diagram.

That doesn't mean my ears are closed (except to those who would
spread fear).

BTW, the fan blade came off of the rotor like butter...
And I'm plenty confident I tightened the nut holding the it on the
new rotor enough! I never seem to mess that part up (occasional
stripped nuts and screw (holes), yes).

Cheers,
Bill

(Top-posting to save you time)

I just wanted to let you know that my fan motor install worked out
successfully. I wish to thank again those of you who helped me to learn
by allowing me to acquire further experience, knowledge and tools!

If you would like to read more details, I posted a more detailed message
at alt.hvac.

I'll start my workbench tomorrow! Maybe I can talk her into helping me
mow the lawn? : )

Cheers,
Bill






Bill wrote:

FYI/FWIW:
I had a dual capacitor system, the dual capacitor will still power
the compressor. New fan motor now gets its own capacitor,

New motor has 4 wires:

Both Brown & Brown/Whitestripe are going to the new capacitor (as
labeled on the motor). Black and Yellow are labeled as Line.
Black is going where it always did (thank you, Black),
and Yellow (remember Yellow?), it going to be wired
to the terminal labeled "Common" on the dual capacitor.
This is equivalent to connecting it to the switched side of the
contactor (as there is another yellow wire from there to the terminal
mentioned above labeled Common). Therefore I believe I am being
faitherful to the the wiring diagram.

That doesn't mean my ears are closed (except to those who would
spread fear).

BTW, the fan blade came off of the rotor like butter...
And I'm plenty confident I tightened the nut holding the it on the
new rotor enough! I never seem to mess that part up (occasional stripped
nuts and screw (holes), yes).

Cheers,
Bill