On 5/7/2012 12:53 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Swingman wrote:


Perfect examples why you will never win a war, or build a skyscraper.


I have done the equivelent of both by knowing when to think too much and
when to act. I know you too well now Karl - and I know that you too have
figured this out. But - that is not coming through in your posts. Come
on - you've never - or you don't hack a quick fix together to get you
through something? I'm going to call bull**** on you on that one.

Once again, we're not even discussing the same thing. Arguing with the
setting goals of through detailed plans and design doesn't diminish the
goals, it diminishes you.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

Swingman wrote:
On 5/7/2012 12:53 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Swingman wrote:


Perfect examples why you will never win a war, or build a
skyscraper.

I have done the equivelent of both by knowing when to think too much
and when to act. I know you too well now Karl - and I know that you
too have figured this out. But - that is not coming through in your
posts. Come on - you've never - or you don't hack a quick fix
together to get you through something? I'm going to call bull****
on you on that one.

Once again, we're not even discussing the same thing. Arguing with the
setting goals of through detailed plans and design doesn't diminish
the goals, it diminishes you.

If we are not discussing the same thing, then it is you who distracted the
conversation Karl. I was very clear in what I posted to Bill, and you took
exception to it, and threw in the zinger that I've never won battles or
built skyscrapers. That part might well be examined by you.

I never argued with the setting of goals, and for you to say that is nothing
short of bull****. I'll take my lumps when I screw up but not when someone
twists my words.

If anyone is diminished in this it's you for not affording the intellectual
credit to the conversation as it has been played out.

So - is this just your turn in the barrel?

--

-Mike-

On 5/7/2012 3:34 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:

If we are not discussing the same thing, then it is you who distracted the
conversation Karl. I was very clear in what I posted to Bill,

Except that you CLEARLY posted/replied to me, not Bill:

On 5/7/2012 12:20 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Swingman wrote:


The difference between mediocrity and supremacy is attention to
detail; and that detail is the essence of what a plan/design
provides.

For some things - agreed. Very much so. For other things - not so much.
Some things are purely utilitarian, and detail be damned. For
example - I
need a sawhorse now. I can spend all kinds of time designing and
creating
the perfect sawhorse, or I can crudely knock one together to get the job
done. Who really cares if it has any usefullness beyond the next 20
hours?
I simply need to get this done. So - there is a simple case where
ability
and capability, accompanied by a modicum of experience, result in
perfection
in time of need. Not at all elegant. Might even end up in the burn
pile at
the end. So what? Didn't need art.

You just described the importance of using a design tool, which was
why it was so exciting to me to get my hands on an easy to use design
tool like Sketchup when it first became available.
Inarguable when it comes to the stuff you normall deal in. Different
though, when dealing with utilitarian stuff.


Make a detailed plan, and execute the plan, and you can win wars and
build skyscrapers.
Only if the skyscraper actually ever begins to be built.

-- -Mike-

IOW, YOU replied to MY post to Bill with a bunch of qualifiers, and
you're going to what??:

I'm going to call bull****
on you on that one.

Marlow, simply go **** yourself.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

Swingman wrote:
On 5/7/2012 3:34 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:

If we are not discussing the same thing, then it is you who
distracted the conversation Karl. I was very clear in what I posted
to Bill,

Except that you CLEARLY posted/replied to me, not Bill:

And you sir, replied to me as I had posted a reply to Bill. So - it's good
for you and not for others?


On 5/7/2012 12:20 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Swingman wrote:


The difference between mediocrity and supremacy is attention to
detail; and that detail is the essence of what a plan/design
provides.
For some things - agreed. Very much so. For other things - not so
much. Some things are purely utilitarian, and detail be damned. For
example - I
need a sawhorse now. I can spend all kinds of time designing and
creating the perfect sawhorse, or I can crudely knock one together
to get the job done. Who really cares if it has any usefullness
beyond the next 20 hours? I simply need to get this done. So -
there is a simple case where ability and capability, accompanied by
a modicum of experience, result in perfection in time of need. Not
at all elegant. Might even end up in the burn pile at the end. So
what? Didn't need art.
You just described the importance of using a design tool, which
was why it was so exciting to me to get my hands on an easy to
use design tool like Sketchup when it first became available.
Inarguable when it comes to the stuff you normall deal in. Different
though, when dealing with utilitarian stuff.


Make a detailed plan, and execute the plan, and you can win wars
and build skyscrapers.
Only if the skyscraper actually ever begins to be built.

-- -Mike-

IOW, YOU replied to MY post to Bill with a bunch of qualifiers, and
you're going to what??:

Well, then... just what was it I said in that reply that was so bothersome
to you Karl? Or was it simply that I replied?


I'm going to call bull****
on you on that one.

Marlow, simply go **** yourself.

I'll stand second in line Karl, after you.

--

-Mike-

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:


Put me down as a believer. I'm struggling to convert the masses.

So - the guy who has not put nail to wood is attempting to convert the
masses? Silly.

Yeah, maybe. I'm not really actively seeking potential converts anyway.
I just want to identify them, for now! ; )



I
think it's a great deal easier to become a believer AFTER you've
learned your way around SU a bit.

That's a fine belief, but how do you really expect to convince people who
actually perform the work you dream of, without all of that elaborate
planning?

Everytime I use SU, it shows me my
technique isn't all that good, but that's a work in progress! %-)

Wait until you discover what your hammer and your saw actually show you.

Bill wrote:

I'll be able to get back to ww stuff soon.

The AC broke today (only blows room temperature air). But, I'm a little
ahead of the game this year, compared to last year when it also broke
(twice: solenoid and a pin-hole leak). I had mentioned it last year,
else I wouldn't have brought it up. I just examined the solenoid, and it
is not "split" like last year, so it's time to call a pro.


Anyway, for my $90 diagnostic inspection, the Heating & AC pro deduced
that the fan motor is froze (i.e. broken). This is the fan motor that
sits right on top of the unit, attached to the underside of the cover.

After sitting in his truck for a quite a while, he came out and said it
would be $725 more to fix it. He suggested I consider buying a new unit
instead of putting so much money into an 11 year old unit. He had no
idea how much that would cost (but eventually he said $5K-10K), but he
could have his salespeople out tomorrow.

Concerning the motor, he would not separate parts from labor, had no
idea how much the parts actually cost, and would not even wave the $90
inspection fee if I paid the $725. I'm not really faulting him for the
first two, I'm just sayin' (they must not need the work very bad).

So I told him I would try to replace the motor myself.

Maybe God is guiding me to do electrical work instead of woodworking? : )

Over $500 to install a motor I can see (it's not like it's hidden behing
an alternator)? Grumble, grumble, $%#@#@!!!

It felt strange to pass on the repair, but I have no regrets so far.
So far it's hot, but nice not feeling like a victim. He wasn't going
to replace it today anyway, so I'd still be hot! : )

Bill

On Mon, 07 May 2012 23:45:38 -0400, Bill wrote:

Bill wrote:

I'll be able to get back to ww stuff soon.

The AC broke today (only blows room temperature air). But, I'm a little
ahead of the game this year, compared to last year when it also broke
(twice: solenoid and a pin-hole leak). I had mentioned it last year,
else I wouldn't have brought it up. I just examined the solenoid, and it
is not "split" like last year, so it's time to call a pro.


Anyway, for my $90 diagnostic inspection, the Heating & AC pro deduced
that the fan motor is froze (i.e. broken). This is the fan motor that
sits right on top of the unit, attached to the underside of the cover.

After sitting in his truck for a quite a while, he came out and said it
would be $725 more to fix it. He suggested I consider buying a new unit
instead of putting so much money into an 11 year old unit. He had no
idea how much that would cost (but eventually he said $5K-10K), but he
could have his salespeople out tomorrow.

My neighbor just had a 30 y/o fan motor replaced for $500 last month.
The guy had to dismantle the whole system to get to it, so I could
understand the $225 labor fee. The motor was $275. WE are in the
wrong business, Bill.


Concerning the motor, he would not separate parts from labor, had no
idea how much the parts actually cost, and would not even wave the $90
inspection fee if I paid the $725. I'm not really faulting him for the
first two, I'm just sayin' (they must not need the work very bad).

Would he waive it even if he didn't wave it? titter


So I told him I would try to replace the motor myself.

Maybe God is guiding me to do electrical work instead of woodworking? : )

Uh, right, but can we see your 623 page detailed plan on doing the
repair before you do it, please? Thanks.


Over $500 to install a motor I can see (it's not like it's hidden behing
an alternator)? Grumble, grumble, $%#@#@!!!

It felt strange to pass on the repair, but I have no regrets so far.
So far it's hot, but nice not feeling like a victim. He wasn't going
to replace it today anyway, so I'd still be hot! : )

When you get there, make sure it's not just the squirrel cage screw
which had come loose and allowed the cage to get hung, causing an
apparent motor freezeup. My new Carrier Infinity had that problem a
few months old, but it wobbled and vibrated instead of hanging. That
whole 1500s/f system was $6k installed. The house had baseboard
heaters and no fans before that. It's 96% efficient, has A/C and
everything. I love it!

--
Most powerful is he who has himself in his own power.
-- Seneca

Over $500 to install a motor I can see (it's not like it's hidden behing
an alternator)? Grumble, grumble, $%#@#@!!!

It felt strange to pass on the repair, but I have no regrets so far.
So far it's hot, but nice not feeling like a victim. He wasn't going
to replace it today anyway, so I'd still be hot! : )

Larry Jaques wrote:

When you get there, make sure it's not just the squirrel cage screw
which had come loose and allowed the cage to get hung, causing an
apparent motor freezeup.

Naw, he batted the fan around with a piece of wood. It didn't want to
turn.


My new Carrier Infinity had that problem a
few months old, but it wobbled and vibrated instead of hanging. That
whole 1500s/f system was $6k installed. The house had baseboard
heaters and no fans before that. It's 96% efficient, has A/C and
everything. I love it!

Nice upgrade!


--
Most powerful is he who has himself in his own power.
-- Seneca

Bill wrote in :

tiredofspam wrote:
Bill you've seen the Nike commercials.. The ones that say

JUST DO IT


One thing I try to impress upon my students is

Design, Design, Design!

Some of them don't understand, so I may explain with more emphasis:

Design, Design, Design, Design, Design, Design! (slight exaggeration)

I say, "You're nodding, but I still don't think you appreciate it (what
is behind the words) enough".

I suggest that when confronted with a job interview, or similar, that
they could do a lot worse than to reveal a sacred point of view
regarding design. At least they encountered one person who defended a,
perhaps, unusually-euphoric reverence for it.

Admittedly, I explain, a careful design may be of less importance on a
project you intend to build by yourself in one day. Still, the world
might be a better place if more people embraced the D-word.
For a software developer, I consider it evidence of maturity.

I am almost reticent to share now that I think it holds its
weight in this environment too. How likely is it that a result will be
superior to a plan? Experience has shown too that the sooner one can
identify a problem, the cheaper and easier it is to fix it. It is
interesting to note that, timewise, cutting wood, depending on how one
defines cutting wood fibers, may amount to less than 1% of a ww
project,
yet it, the materials, could represent a significant proportion of the
cost of the project. The woodworking materials may not even be directly
replaceable. In short, there is probably adequate time to DO IT, after
one has crafted a design. Of course, as most everyone is aware, design
can take many forms, such as building a prototype, or involve
practicing
the unfamiliar, but don't get me started...

Cheers, with a capital D,
Bill


My CAD professor used to say "make all your mistakes with a pencil and
paper before you create it in AutoCAD".

Bill wrote:


Over $500 to install a motor I can see (it's not like it's hidden behing
an alternator)? Grumble, grumble, $%#@#@!!!

It felt strange to pass on the repair, but I have no regrets so far.
So far it's hot, but nice not feeling like a victim. He wasn't going
to replace it today anyway, so I'd still be hot! : )

Larry Jaques wrote:

When you get there, make sure it's not just the squirrel cage screw
which had come loose and allowed the cage to get hung, causing an
apparent motor freezeup.

Naw, he batted the fan around with a piece of wood. It didn't want to turn.

I encountered your term "squirrel cage" in my reading about heat pumps.
I don't have no squirrel cage! At least I don't have one outside.
Maybe in the house? : )



My new Carrier Infinity had that problem a
few months old, but it wobbled and vibrated instead of hanging. That
whole 1500s/f system was $6k installed. The house had baseboard
heaters and no fans before that. It's 96% efficient, has A/C and
everything. I love it!

Nice upgrade!


--
Most powerful is he who has himself in his own power.
-- Seneca

On 5/7/2012 10:45 PM, Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:

I'll be able to get back to ww stuff soon.

Don't feel too bad. I have been forced to do more ww because of AC
repairs ... last month it was $1400+ to replace the coil in my upstairs
unit (and this was with my "$200 discount", after having paid this same
HVAC contractor over $100K in the last decade to install HVAC in new homes).

It felt strange to pass on the repair, but I have no regrets so far.
So far it's hot, but nice not feeling like a victim. He wasn't going to
replace it today anyway, so I'd still be hot! : )

Even a "builder grade" (usually a Goodman around here) compressor and
fan unit (the part that sits outside) runs around $1800 - $2000 to
replace. That's about what I've had to pay to replace those stolen off
of construction sites the last couple of times that has happened.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

"Steve" wrote in message
. 207.121...

Bill wrote in :

tiredofspam wrote:
Bill you've seen the Nike commercials.. The ones that say

JUST DO IT


One thing I try to impress upon my students is

Design, Design, Design!

Some of them don't understand, so I may explain with more emphasis:

Design, Design, Design, Design, Design, Design! (slight exaggeration)

I say, "You're nodding, but I still don't think you appreciate it (what
is behind the words) enough".

I suggest that when confronted with a job interview, or similar, that
they could do a lot worse than to reveal a sacred point of view
regarding design. At least they encountered one person who defended a,
perhaps, unusually-euphoric reverence for it.

Admittedly, I explain, a careful design may be of less importance on a
project you intend to build by yourself in one day. Still, the world
might be a better place if more people embraced the D-word.
For a software developer, I consider it evidence of maturity.

I am almost reticent to share now that I think it holds its
weight in this environment too. How likely is it that a result will be
superior to a plan? Experience has shown too that the sooner one can
identify a problem, the cheaper and easier it is to fix it. It is
interesting to note that, timewise, cutting wood, depending on how one
defines cutting wood fibers, may amount to less than 1% of a ww
project,
yet it, the materials, could represent a significant proportion of the
cost of the project. The woodworking materials may not even be directly
replaceable. In short, there is probably adequate time to DO IT, after
one has crafted a design. Of course, as most everyone is aware, design
can take many forms, such as building a prototype, or involve
practicing
the unfamiliar, but don't get me started...

Cheers, with a capital D,
Bill


My CAD professor used to say "make all your mistakes with a pencil and
paper before you create it in AutoCAD".
================================================== ===================
Didn't have a very good concept of CAD, did he?

Swingman wrote:
On 5/7/2012 10:45 PM, Bill wrote:

It felt strange to pass on the repair, but I have no regrets so far.
So far it's hot, but nice not feeling like a victim. He wasn't going to
replace it today anyway, so I'd still be hot! : )

Even a "builder grade" (usually a Goodman around here) compressor and
fan unit (the part that sits outside) runs around $1800 - $2000 to
replace. That's about what I've had to pay to replace those stolen off
of construction sites the last couple of times that has happened.


I ordered the fan locally (being shipped from TX) this morning.
It was $140 + shipping.

I spent a lot of time reading on the matter last night. Carrier
practically regards specifications of their parts as proprietary!

In the end, the model# of the fan motor in the unit, which to my
surprise was not original, was the way that the supplier helped me
choose a motor (I had detailed all of the specifications from it).

If anyone reading would be interested in helping me with my checklist,
here is what it looks like, to me, that I need to do (I hope you'll
correct me if if looks like I'm confused, I mean more than usual %-)


0. Remove (quick-disconnect) fuse.

1. Remove the 4 bolts that look like they holding down a bbq-grill on
top. Let's just refer to the bbq-grill as TOP below. Do not remove, I
think, the 4 bolts holding down the 2-inch high "cover" to which the
TOP is attached.

2. Reach under the TOP and slide the rubber(?) conduit away from the motor.

3. Remove the 3 motor wires, Yellow, Brown and Black from where they are
attached to in the "electric box" area, paying close attention to where
they are attached. This will require slight modification (see #8 ).

4. Lay a 4'by4' board, or equivalent accross unit, and flip the "whole
works", TOP, fan motor, and fan upside down on top, using the board for
support.

5. Remove the fan from the rotor. Use a little penetrating oil, and
hope and pray a little bit. Anything else? Kick it? lol!

6. Remove the 4 bolts holding motor to top

7. Reverse process with new motor, however--

8. I am getting a new 6-amp capacitor with the motor, while the existing
capacitor was 7.5-amp and is part of a dual fan/compressor capacitor
unit. I have been examining a wiring diagram (not something I do
everyday).

Since it currently shared, on the capacitor, I assume Yellow is Common.
Black is clearly Hot. Since it is a 240v fan, I assume Brown is also
Hot. I could be mistaken.

I see how they are marked on a wiring digram I found for my Heat Pump/AC:

BROWN = O--|(--O = YELLOW

The notation: ---|(--- was somewhat familiar to me when I was in junior
high. O, of course, just represents a connection.

My recollection is the current wants to go from the (-- side to the --|
side above, which would make me want to infer that YELLOW is Hot and
Brown is Common.

If the top of the capacitor is marked with O--| and (--O, that should
tell me where to attach my brown and yellow wires, no matter what they
are. If the capacitor is going to be marked in some other way, PLEASE
advise!!!

9. Tighten screws. Hope. Replace fuse. Done?

10. Decide whether to put all of the $600 saved towards woodworking
tools and materials, or just part of it.


Well, that's the plan. I call this "doing it", MM!
I need to print this out! : )

Bill

Bill wrote:
Swingman wrote:
On 5/7/2012 10:45 PM, Bill wrote:

It felt strange to pass on the repair, but I have no regrets so far.
So far it's hot, but nice not feeling like a victim. He wasn't going to
replace it today anyway, so I'd still be hot! : )

Even a "builder grade" (usually a Goodman around here) compressor and
fan unit (the part that sits outside) runs around $1800 - $2000 to
replace. That's about what I've had to pay to replace those stolen off
of construction sites the last couple of times that has happened.


I ordered the fan locally (being shipped from TX) this morning.
It was $140 + shipping.

I spent a lot of time reading on the matter last night. Carrier
practically regards specifications of their parts as proprietary!

In the end, the model# of the fan motor in the unit, which to my
surprise was not original, was the way that the supplier helped me
choose a motor (I had detailed all of the specifications from it).

If anyone reading would be interested in helping me with my checklist,
here is what it looks like, to me, that I need to do (I hope you'll
correct me if if looks like I'm confused, I mean more than usual %-)


0. Remove (quick-disconnect) fuse.

1. Remove the 4 bolts that look like they holding down a bbq-grill on
top. Let's just refer to the bbq-grill as TOP below. Do not remove, I
think, the 4 bolts holding down the 2-inch high "cover" to which the TOP
is attached.

2. Reach under the TOP and slide the rubber(?) conduit away from the motor.

3. Remove the 3 motor wires, Yellow, Brown and Black from where they are
attached to in the "electric box" area, paying close attention to where
they are attached. This will require slight modification (see #8 ).

Yes, I will expunge any energy stored in the capacitor with a
screwdriver. I have to be careful with this, as I confess I've
forgotten to do it before when visiting the "box".


4. Lay a 4'by4' board, or equivalent accross unit, and flip the "whole
works", TOP, fan motor, and fan upside down on top, using the board for
support.

5. Remove the fan from the rotor. Use a little penetrating oil, and hope
and pray a little bit. Anything else? Kick it? lol!

6. Remove the 4 bolts holding motor to top

7. Reverse process with new motor, however--

8. I am getting a new 6-amp capacitor with the motor, while the existing
capacitor was 7.5-amp and is part of a dual fan/compressor capacitor
unit. I have been examining a wiring diagram (not something I do everyday).

Since it currently shared, on the capacitor, I assume Yellow is Common.
Black is clearly Hot. Since it is a 240v fan, I assume Brown is also
Hot. I could be mistaken.

I see how they are marked on a wiring digram I found for my Heat Pump/AC:

BROWN = O--|(--O = YELLOW

The notation: ---|(--- was somewhat familiar to me when I was in junior
high. O, of course, just represents a connection.

My recollection is the current wants to go from the (-- side to the --|
side above, which would make me want to infer that YELLOW is Hot and
Brown is Common.

If the top of the capacitor is marked with O--| and (--O, that should
tell me where to attach my brown and yellow wires, no matter what they
are. If the capacitor is going to be marked in some other way, PLEASE
advise!!!

9. Tighten screws. Hope. Replace fuse. Done?

10. Decide whether to put all of the $600 saved towards woodworking
tools and materials, or just part of it.


Well, that's the plan. I call this "doing it", MM!
I need to print this out! : )

Bill

Bill wrote:


I spent a lot of time reading on the matter last night. Carrier
practically regards specifications of their parts as proprietary!

In the end, the model# of the fan motor in the unit, which to my
surprise was not original, was the way that the supplier helped me
choose a motor (I had detailed all of the specifications from it).

If anyone reading would be interested in helping me with my checklist,
here is what it looks like, to me, that I need to do (I hope you'll
correct me if if looks like I'm confused, I mean more than usual %-)


Geeze Bill - why wouldn't you take this to an appropriate newsgroup? Or
look up a youtube video?

--

-Mike-

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:


I spent a lot of time reading on the matter last night. Carrier
practically regards specifications of their parts as proprietary!

In the end, the model# of the fan motor in the unit, which to my
surprise was not original, was the way that the supplier helped me
choose a motor (I had detailed all of the specifications from it).

If anyone reading would be interested in helping me with my checklist,
here is what it looks like, to me, that I need to do (I hope you'll
correct me if if looks like I'm confused, I mean more than usual %-)


Geeze Bill - why wouldn't you take this to an appropriate newsgroup? Or
look up a youtube video?


Geeze Mike, Don't be so sensitive. I don't read any other newsgroups.

Mike Marlow wrote:

Geeze Bill - why wouldn't you take this to an appropriate newsgroup? Or
look up a youtube video?


There was a reference to you in it, toward the end. I don't know which
newsgroups you read besides this one. ::: ducking :::

Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:


I spent a lot of time reading on the matter last night. Carrier
practically regards specifications of their parts as proprietary!

In the end, the model# of the fan motor in the unit, which to my
surprise was not original, was the way that the supplier helped me
choose a motor (I had detailed all of the specifications from it).

If anyone reading would be interested in helping me with my
checklist, here is what it looks like, to me, that I need to do (I
hope you'll correct me if if looks like I'm confused, I mean more
than usual %-)

Geeze Bill - why wouldn't you take this to an appropriate newsgroup?
Or look up a youtube video?


Geeze Mike, Don't be so sensitive. I don't read any other newsgroups.

Maybe you should Bill. This is not an air conditioning newsgroup.


--

-Mike-

Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:

Geeze Bill - why wouldn't you take this to an appropriate newsgroup?
Or look up a youtube video?


There was a reference to you in it, toward the end. I don't know
which newsgroups you read besides this one. ::: ducking :::

Huh?

--

-Mike-

On Tue, 8 May 2012 20:09:15 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
Geeze Mike, Don't be so sensitive. I don't read any other newsgroups.

Maybe you should Bill. This is not an air conditioning newsgroup.

Maybe so, but the breadth of knowledge here and the wide experience of
many is usually enough to answer most any basic question, especially
when it comes to something in the home. That's one reason why I like
to hang out here. Perhaps Bill feels the same way.

Dave wrote:
On Tue, 8 May 2012 20:09:15 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
Geeze Mike, Don't be so sensitive. I don't read any other newsgroups.

Maybe you should Bill. This is not an air conditioning newsgroup.

Maybe so, but the breadth of knowledge here and the wide experience of
many is usually enough to answer most any basic question, especially
when it comes to something in the home. That's one reason why I like
to hang out here. Perhaps Bill feels the same way.

Thank you Dave. You are absolutely right.
As Mike M. has said himself before, this group is something of a "boys
club". It's surely not just another forum, at least not to me. I
thought my previous post was a little long, but I also thought it had
the potential to be useful to someone else. I hope other folks will
feel free to post threads that have a reasonable chance to help me save
$600, and/or to help me be a better DIY'er. As Swingman has said
(paraphrased here): We can't just discuss joinery all the time.


I did find some helpful info regarding my upcoming AC fan replacement at
EHow.com. The newsgroup alt.HVAC was useless in this regard.

One question I am trying to find the answer to, which surely is in the
"beginner" category, is whether the rubber conduit that covers the 3
wires from the electrical fan comes already attached to the fan? And,
if not, then how is it attached to the motor, and should it be replaced
periodically? I think we all want to keep our high voltage wires Dry!
: ) It the conduit comes attached to the motor, than that nullifies
all of my concerns about that.

Concerning a new work table, I'm looking forward to building one very
much like the one Swingman posted a SU diagram of recently. Except mine
will be 40" tall (higher), shorter in length, and sport a machinist
vise. I have little doubt that it will live a long and useful life, like
everyone else's first bench's seem to. I have a very slight tendancy to
permit things to get complicated, but I need the bench too much to let
that happen here. I can worry about the drawers, inlay, breadboard ends,
and relief-carved ornamentation later: : )

Bill

Bill wrote:

One question I am trying to find the answer to, which surely is in the
"beginner" category, is whether the rubber conduit that covers the 3
wires from the electrical fan comes already attached to the fan?

Obviously, I meant, already attached to the fan *Motor*, rather than the
fan.

And, if
not, then how is it attached to the motor, and should it be replaced
periodically? I think we all want to keep our high voltage wires Dry!
: ) It the conduit comes attached to the motor, than that nullifies all
of my concerns about that.

Concerning a new work table, I'm looking forward to building one very
much like the one Swingman posted a SU diagram of recently. Except mine
will be 40" tall (higher), shorter in length, and sport a machinist
vise. I have little doubt that it will live a long and useful life, like
everyone else's first bench's seem to. I have a very slight tendancy to
permit things to get complicated, but I need the bench too much to let
that happen here. I can worry about the drawers, inlay, breadboard ends,
and relief-carved ornamentation later: : )

Bill

Another "stupid" question that I locate an answer to.

Concerning "blade connectors". It is written (at Wikipedia):

"blade receptacle is pushed onto the blade to form a connection"


Is that it? Does nothing need to be snugged up, or crimped, or
anything? Is there a subtle "click mechanism" which makes very good
contact and insures that the male and female contacts don't come loose?

Years ago, I sometimes used pliers on them when attaching them to
speakers, for instance.

It would be nice to know the truth about this one. Where I was raised
(no, not a barn), one didn't hesitate to use pliers "just to make sure".
: )

Bill

On Tue, 08 May 2012 23:40:17 -0400, Bill wrote:

Bill wrote:

One question I am trying to find the answer to, which surely is in the
"beginner" category, is whether the rubber conduit that covers the 3
wires from the electrical fan comes already attached to the fan?

Obviously, I meant, already attached to the fan *Motor*, rather than the
fan.

But of course.


And, if
not, then how is it attached to the motor, and should it be replaced
periodically? I think we all want to keep our high voltage wires Dry!
: ) It the conduit comes attached to the motor, than that nullifies all
of my concerns about that.

Who left the garden hose in your furnace closet, Bill? How would
wiring get wet in there?!?


Concerning a new work table, I'm looking forward to building one very
much like the one Swingman posted a SU diagram of recently. Except mine
will be 40" tall (higher), shorter in length, and sport a machinist
vise. I have little doubt that it will live a long and useful life, like
everyone else's first bench's seem to. I have a very slight tendancy to
permit things to get complicated, but I need the bench too much to let
that happen here. I can worry about the drawers, inlay, breadboard ends,
and relief-carved ornamentation later: : )

You're laser etching and dyeing a new wire-rubber, right?

--
Most powerful is he who has himself in his own power.
-- Seneca

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 08 May 2012 23:40:17 -0400, wrote:

Bill wrote:

One question I am trying to find the answer to, which surely is in the
"beginner" category, is whether the rubber conduit that covers the 3
wires from the electrical fan comes already attached to the fan?

Obviously, I meant, already attached to the fan *Motor*, rather than the
fan.

But of course.


And, if
not, then how is it attached to the motor, and should it be replaced
periodically? I think we all want to keep our high voltage wires Dry!
: ) It the conduit comes attached to the motor, than that nullifies all
of my concerns about that.

Who left the garden hose in your furnace closet, Bill? How would
wiring get wet in there?!?

No this heat pump is outside, running 4 seasons out of the year. If it
were not for the conduit, the wires to the fan motor would be *directly*
exposed to the elements ALL of the time.




Concerning a new work table, I'm looking forward to building one very
much like the one Swingman posted a SU diagram of recently. Except mine
will be 40" tall (higher), shorter in length, and sport a machinist
vise. I have little doubt that it will live a long and useful life, like
everyone else's first bench's seem to. I have a very slight tendancy to
permit things to get complicated, but I need the bench too much to let
that happen here. I can worry about the drawers, inlay, breadboard ends,
and relief-carved ornamentation later: : )

You're laser etching and dyeing a new wire-rubber, right?

That reminds me, someone recommended a similar mat to me for wood
carving. I picked up a "2-man saw" a few weeks ago at an auction as a
decor item for not too many bucks. As you may recall I still have
painting to do and lights to hang. At least, its that time of year that
I get shop time, along with my yard work of course. Damn weeds! ; )


--
Most powerful is he who has himself in his own power.
-- Seneca

On Wed, 09 May 2012 00:21:08 -0400, Bill wrote:


Another "stupid" question that I locate an answer to.

Concerning "blade connectors". It is written (at Wikipedia):

"blade receptacle is pushed onto the blade to form a connection"


Is that it? Does nothing need to be snugged up, or crimped, or
anything? Is there a subtle "click mechanism" which makes very good
contact and insures that the male and female contacts don't come loose?

Some provide a dimple on the male (spade lug) which snugs it to the
female (receptacle), some don't.


Years ago, I sometimes used pliers on them when attaching them to
speakers, for instance.

Shameful!


It would be nice to know the truth about this one. Where I was raised
(no, not a barn), one didn't hesitate to use pliers "just to make sure".
: )

One doesn't. It's a spring fit.

Now, before some idiot says something else, that's my opinion.
Everything I say, or anyone says, here is their own opinion, nothing
else. Some are right out of the tech manuals, most aren't. We'll just
have to learn to live with that, huh?

--
Most powerful is he who has himself in his own power.
-- Seneca

On Wed, 09 May 2012 01:29:35 -0400, Bill wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 08 May 2012 23:40:17 -0400, wrote:

Bill wrote:

One question I am trying to find the answer to, which surely is in the
"beginner" category, is whether the rubber conduit that covers the 3
wires from the electrical fan comes already attached to the fan?

Obviously, I meant, already attached to the fan *Motor*, rather than the
fan.

But of course.


And, if
not, then how is it attached to the motor, and should it be replaced
periodically? I think we all want to keep our high voltage wires Dry!
: ) It the conduit comes attached to the motor, than that nullifies all
of my concerns about that.

Who left the garden hose in your furnace closet, Bill? How would
wiring get wet in there?!?

No this heat pump is outside, running 4 seasons out of the year. If it
were not for the conduit, the wires to the fan motor would be *directly*
exposed to the elements ALL of the time.

Oh, THAT motor. You'd better -hope- the new fan has a watertight seal
on it.


Concerning a new work table, I'm looking forward to building one very
much like the one Swingman posted a SU diagram of recently. Except mine
will be 40" tall (higher), shorter in length, and sport a machinist
vise. I have little doubt that it will live a long and useful life, like
everyone else's first bench's seem to. I have a very slight tendancy to
permit things to get complicated, but I need the bench too much to let
that happen here. I can worry about the drawers, inlay, breadboard ends,
and relief-carved ornamentation later: : )

You're laser etching and dyeing a new wire-rubber, right?

That reminds me, someone recommended a similar mat to me for wood
carving. I picked up a "2-man saw" a few weeks ago at an auction as a
decor item for not too many bucks. As you may recall I still have
painting to do and lights to hang. At least, its that time of year that
I get shop time, along with my yard work of course. Damn weeds! ; )

I lost my cantaloupe plant and a cucumber to 90F today. I last watered
them on Sunday, but the beating sun grows weeds and kills underwatered
plants mercilessly.

If you do paint that saw, I'll hope the sun is merciless with you,
too, HEATHEN!

--
Most powerful is he who has himself in his own power.
-- Seneca

Larry Jaques wrote:

If you do paint that saw, I'll hope the sun is merciless with you,
too, HEATHEN!

I won't paint it..lol. I don't even know if I want to take the rust off
of it. It's got a mostly-even and smooth rust patina, 100% coverage,
and its teeth are about an inch long and sharp. I don't think its very
big as two-man saws go. But if you pick it up, you'll realize you
wouldn't want to trip with it. My wife said she didn't want it over the
fireplace, so it will have to go in my shop somewhere--of course, that
was my plan along. Trivia question that I don't know the answer to:
When did the stop making "2-mansaws"?

On Tue, 08 May 2012 23:30:28 -0400, Bill wrote:
thought my previous post was a little long, but I also thought it had
the potential to be useful to someone else. I hope other folks will

Yeah, nothing personal, but you are a little long winded on occasion.
I can say this because I admit to being long winded on occasion too.

Ok then start a new thread with OT in the subject.

John S.

On 05/08/2012 06:56 PM, Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:


I spent a lot of time reading on the matter last night. Carrier
practically regards specifications of their parts as proprietary!

In the end, the model# of the fan motor in the unit, which to my
surprise was not original, was the way that the supplier helped me
choose a motor (I had detailed all of the specifications from it).

If anyone reading would be interested in helping me with my checklist,
here is what it looks like, to me, that I need to do (I hope you'll
correct me if if looks like I'm confused, I mean more than usual %-)


Geeze Bill - why wouldn't you take this to an appropriate newsgroup? Or
look up a youtube video?


Geeze Mike, Don't be so sensitive. I don't read any other newsgroups.

On Mon, 07 May 2012 23:45:38 -0400, Bill wrote:

Over $500 to install a motor I can see (it's not like it's hidden behing
an alternator)? Grumble, grumble, $%#@#@!!!

Last September the AC condenser motor stoppped, I replaced the motor
and starter cap myself and it cost a bit under $400. Did not have a
quote or a service check the motor temp was well above 140 degrees F
was the hint.

Mark

Markem wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2012 23:45:38 -0400, wrote:

Over $500 to install a motor I can see (it's not like it's hidden behing
an alternator)? Grumble, grumble, $%#@#@!!!

Last September the AC condenser motor stoppped, I replaced the motor
and starter cap myself and it cost a bit under $400.

You must have bought a name-branded one, or maybe a really big one.


Did not have a
quote or a service check the motor temp was well above 140 degrees F
was the hint.

The top of my unit looks a little like it has been "cooked" too!


Mark

Mark, Since you just did this, what seals the conduit (around the wires)
to the motor, anything?

My motor is supposed to arrive tomorrow or Friday. Except for the detail
above, I think I'm ready.

Bill

Dave wrote:
On Tue, 08 May 2012 23:30:28 -0400, wrote:
thought my previous post was a little long, but I also thought it had
the potential to be useful to someone else. I hope other folks will

Yeah, nothing personal, but you are a little long winded on occasion.
I can say this because I admit to being long winded on occasion too.

Thank you for agreeing with me. If I find myself in the middle of a
long post that I find doesn't interest me, I move on to the next one.
Sort of like when we read newspapers.

"Bill" wrote in message ...

Larry Jaques wrote:

If you do paint that saw, I'll hope the sun is merciless with you,
too, HEATHEN!

I won't paint it..lol. I don't even know if I want to take the rust off
of it. It's got a mostly-even and smooth rust patina, 100% coverage,
and its teeth are about an inch long and sharp. I don't think its very
big as two-man saws go. But if you pick it up, you'll realize you
wouldn't want to trip with it. My wife said she didn't want it over the
fireplace, so it will have to go in my shop somewhere--of course, that
was my plan along. Trivia question that I don't know the answer to:
When did the stop making "2-mansaws"?
================================================== ================
Never. You can still buy them new.

Bill wrote:


My motor is supposed to arrive tomorrow or Friday. Except for the
detail above, I think I'm ready.


Have you looked at yours yet Bill? It is usually just a simple push in
connector. (push in and twist). The connector itself couples to the motor
with a simple nut. Is yours different?

--

-Mike-

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:


My motor is supposed to arrive tomorrow or Friday. Except for the
detail above, I think I'm ready.


Have you looked at yours yet Bill?

Yes, I've been looking at it everyday, ever more closely (seriously)!

It is usually just a simple push in
connector. (push in and twist). The connector itself couples to the motor
with a simple nut. Is yours different?

I think so. I'll see if I can get a pic. Thank you for your interest!

Bill

Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:


My motor is supposed to arrive tomorrow or Friday. Except for the
detail above, I think I'm ready.


Have you looked at yours yet Bill?

Yes, I've been looking at it everyday, ever more closely (seriously)!

It is usually just a simple push in
connector. (push in and twist). The connector itself couples to the motor
with a simple nut. Is yours different?

I think so. I'll see if I can get a pic. Thank you for your interest!

Bill

Mike,

I posted 4 pics illustrating the conduit and connector I've been talking
about. I think that motors came with the wires already attached. I'm
increasing thinking the conduit is hanging there.
Evidently keeping wires "dry" is not as crucial as I might have
supposed, as the heat pump is full of wires with no more protection
that their own colored skin.

Still curious about the 4th pic. Remove just the grill, right?

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

Thank you,
Bill

Bill wrote:

Mike,

I posted 4 pics illustrating the conduit and connector I've been
talking about. I think that motors came with the wires already
attached. I'm increasing thinking the conduit is hanging there.
Evidently keeping wires "dry" is not as crucial as I might have
supposed, as the heat pump is full of wires with no more protection
that their own colored skin.

Still curious about the 4th pic. Remove just the grill, right?

That's what it appears like in the picture. I've never taken one of these
motors out, but from what I can see, that's how I would start. You'll
probably find that the motor is secured in some other way once you get the
grill off, but I'd have to do it step by step myself.


--

-Mike-

In article , says...

Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:


My motor is supposed to arrive tomorrow or Friday. Except for the
detail above, I think I'm ready.


Have you looked at yours yet Bill?

Yes, I've been looking at it everyday, ever more closely (seriously)!

It is usually just a simple push in
connector. (push in and twist). The connector itself couples to the motor
with a simple nut. Is yours different?

I think so. I'll see if I can get a pic. Thank you for your interest!

Bill

Mike,

I posted 4 pics illustrating the conduit and connector I've been talking
about. I think that motors came with the wires already attached. I'm
increasing thinking the conduit is hanging there.
Evidently keeping wires "dry" is not as crucial as I might have
supposed, as the heat pump is full of wires with no more protection
that their own colored skin.

Still curious about the 4th pic. Remove just the grill, right?

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

Modern electrical wires have plastic insulation that doesn't really care
if it gets wet. What you have to keep dry is the connections at the
end.

Thank you,
Bill

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:

Mike,

I posted 4 pics illustrating the conduit and connector I've been
talking about. I think that motors came with the wires already
attached. I'm increasing thinking the conduit is hanging there.
Evidently keeping wires "dry" is not as crucial as I might have
supposed, as the heat pump is full of wires with no more protection
that their own colored skin.

Still curious about the 4th pic. Remove just the grill, right?

That's what it appears like in the picture. I've never taken one of these
motors out, but from what I can see, that's how I would start. You'll
probably find that the motor is secured in some other way once you get the
grill off, but I'd have to do it step by step myself.



The motor is insulated. After alot of consideration, I've concluded the
conduit is probably just abut to the motor. As Mr. J. Clarke pointed
out, the wires don't care if they get wet--something which is obvious by
inspection of the whole system, but still surprises me. I thought
perhaps these wires were specially-teated.

I (feel like I) HAVE DONE my homework for this project. I'm prepared and
ready for my "final exam", but my motor won't arrive until Friday or
possibly Monday. I have to learn to "leave it alone" now and get other
work done in the meantime. Maybe I can go shop for the wood for that
work table. I'm not sure of best sort of screw for fastening two 2by4s
together. I assume that when folks said "screws not nails" that they
didn't mean lag bolts, but I guess that gives me new homework to do!

Cheers,
Bill