|
Designing a work table
Subject: Designing a work table Bill wrote in : I need to build a table to mount a machinist vise and for sharpening (a table to to "boot from" in computer parlance). My "Work-Mate" is not suitable for those things. I started-out with a design incorporating M&T joinery, and then I got more realistic. I just finished a design I put on my web site to sha http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/ I plan to use SYP for the top--in fact, that was my starting point. One thing I'm still not decided on is how to attach the 2by4's on each end to the 4by4 legs. Nailing an extra piece of 2by4 to left and right side of each joint, like a bandaid, would probably work (but is surely "pitiful" technique). By the way, it may look a little unorthodox, but I put the strechers on the inside to buy myself a little leg room. I'm not actually sure whether the 3 1/2 inches will really make much difference. Also, in my current design, all assembly is done with nails. I'd welcome any comments anyone would care to provide. Cheers! Bill Make it a little wider, say 26-28". That way, if you build a piece 2'x4' it will fit on the table easily. I'm going to have to extend the top of my workbench a bit for that exact reason... The width was good, but the length was exactly 48". You may want to consider making the bottom support a shelf or cabinet. Not only will it add some rigidity, but you'll gain some storage space. Instead of putting the supports inside the legs, consider making the base a little smaller than the top. That way, you'll have clamping space around the entire top (near the edges) and you'll get the knee space you desire. At 37" tall, you'll want to stand to use the bench, so it's probably more important to make room for your feet. Puckdropper -- Make it to fit, don't make it fit. From: Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com References: Bill wrote in : I need to build a table to mount a machinist vise and for sharpening (a table to to "boot from" in computer parlance). My "Work-Mate" is not suitable for those things. I started-out with a design incorporating M&T joinery, and then I got more realistic. I just finished a design I put on my web site to sha http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/ I plan to use SYP for the top--in fact, that was my starting point. One thing I'm still not decided on is how to attach the 2by4's on each end to the 4by4 legs. Nailing an extra piece of 2by4 to left and right side of each joint, like a bandaid, would probably work (but is surely "pitiful" technique). By the way, it may look a little unorthodox, but I put the strechers on the inside to buy myself a little leg room. I'm not actually sure whether the 3 1/2 inches will really make much difference. Also, in my current design, all assembly is done with nails. I'd welcome any comments anyone would care to provide. Cheers! Bill I noticed distinct similarities between your proposed design and my mostly finished reality. I plan turning the bottom of the bench into a cabinet to try to keep some of the dust off my less-used tools. The big thing on top isn't part of the bench, it's a project. ;-) http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/other/bench.jpg A couple things to note: 1) The bench top is designed to allow for clamping. It's at least two inches larger than the base for that reason. 2) The drawer height is designed to allow an item to remain clamped to the top while the drawer is opened. 3) The drawers open from either end (convenient!) 4) The legs are just 1x material. They are two pieces joined at a right angle, which allowed installation of the shelf and drawer box. Puckdropper -- Make it to fit, don't make it fit. From: "Lee Michaels" leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net ------------ I always recommend a shelf a few inches under the top. This creates a space where you can put tools that can be easily accessed when working. And gets them out of the way when you don't need them. I have that on my primary shop bench and it has been a super time saver and organizer. Then put one or two more shelves under there. You can never have too many shelves or storage space in a shop. Make the bench sturdy. One way to do this is to simply make it heavier. Use heavier materials and stack stuff on the shelves. The heavier it is, the more stable of a work surface that you will have. Particularly important if mounting a vise on the bench. Wimpy, light weight benches are mostly useless. Be a man! Be macho! Don't build a pussy bench! And if you want to make it a bit stronger, use some construction adhesive where possible. Nails are OK. I would personally use screws. I built a lot of things with glue and screws. Some of those things are still going strong after 30 years. From: Limp Arbor NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 12:37:42 +0000 (UTC) On May 4, 6:47=A0am, "G.W. Ross" wrote: I would put the upper cross pieces on the side of the legs rather than on top. =A0Nailing into the end grain of the legs will not hold as well. -- G.W. Ross I used to be sane, but I'm feeling much better now.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - A lot of good suggestions that I'll agree with 1 top cross pieces on sides of legs 2 notch legs to inset stretchers 3 top should overhang on all 4 sides 4 use screws or bolts - nails back out easier Another thing you you might want to consider is two feet. I connected the legs of my bench at the bottom with a foot. Helps prevent racking. Makes it easier to level. Makes it easier to move. You msy not plan on it now but at some point you'll put something in that vise to bend or beat on and you want the bench stable. http://www.swigerwoodworks.com/images/Workbench_011.jpg (not mine) ----------------------------- From: "G.W. Ross" ) Limp Arbor wrote: On May 4, 6:47 am, "G.W. wrote: Bill wrote: I need to build a table to mount a machinist vise and for sharpening (a table to to "boot from" in computer parlance). My "Work-Mate" is not suitable for those things. I started-out with a design incorporating M&T joinery, and then I got more realistic. I just finished a design I put on my web site to sha http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/ I plan to use SYP for the top--in fact, that was my starting point. One thing I'm still not decided on is how to attach the 2by4's on each end to the 4by4 legs. Nailing an extra piece of 2by4 to left and right side of each joint, like a bandaid, would probably work (but is surely "pitiful" technique). By the way, it may look a little unorthodox, but I put the strechers on the inside to buy myself a little leg room. I'm not actually sure whether the 3 1/2 inches will really make much difference. Also, in my current design, all assembly is done with nails. I'd welcome any comments anyone would care to provide. Cheers! Bill I would put the upper cross pieces on the side of the legs rather than on top. Nailing into the end grain of the legs will not hold as well. -- G.W. Ross I used to be sane, but I'm feeling much better now.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - A lot of good suggestions that I'll agree with 1 top cross pieces on sides of legs 2 notch legs to inset stretchers 3 top should overhang on all 4 sides 4 use screws or bolts - nails back out easier Another thing you you might want to consider is two feet. I connected the legs of my bench at the bottom with a foot. Helps prevent racking. Makes it easier to level. Makes it easier to move. You msy not plan on it now but at some point you'll put something in that vise to bend or beat on and you want the bench stable. http://www.swigerwoodworks.com/images/Workbench_011.jpg (not mine) I built both of mine similar but no overhang in back--I screwed the back legs to the wall. No racking or shaking. -- G.W. Ross I used to be sane, but I'm feeling much better now. From: "G.W. Ross" Bill wrote: I need to build a table to mount a machinist vise and for sharpening (a table to to "boot from" in computer parlance). My "Work-Mate" is not suitable for those things. I started-out with a design incorporating M&T joinery, and then I got more realistic. I just finished a design I put on my web site to sha http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/ I plan to use SYP for the top--in fact, that was my starting point. One thing I'm still not decided on is how to attach the 2by4's on each end to the 4by4 legs. Nailing an extra piece of 2by4 to left and right side of each joint, like a bandaid, would probably work (but is surely "pitiful" technique). By the way, it may look a little unorthodox, but I put the strechers on the inside to buy myself a little leg room. I'm not actually sure whether the 3 1/2 inches will really make much difference. Also, in my current design, all assembly is done with nails. I'd welcome any comments anyone would care to provide. Cheers! Bill I would put the upper cross pieces on the side of the legs rather than on top. Nailing into the end grain of the legs will not hold as well. -- G.W. Ross I used to be sane, but I'm feeling much better now. Path: news.usenetserver.com!s05-b06.iad!cyclone02.iad!npeer02.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.c om!news2.euro.net!news.mixmin.net!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!mx04.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "dadiOH" Make it a little wider, say 26-28". That way, if you build a piece 2'x4' it will fit on the table easily. I'm going to have to extend the top of my workbench a bit for that exact reason... The width was good, but the length was exactly 48". You may want to consider making the bottom support a shelf or cabinet. Not only will it add some rigidity, but you'll gain some storage space. Instead of putting the supports inside the legs, consider making the base a little smaller than the top. That way, you'll have clamping space around the entire top (near the edges) and you'll get the knee space you desire. At 37" tall, you'll want to stand to use the bench, so it's probably more important to make room for your feet. Puckdropper -- Make it to fit, don't make it fit. From: Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com References: Bill wrote in : I need to build a table to mount a machinist vise and for sharpening (a table to to "boot from" in computer parlance). My "Work-Mate" is not suitable for those things. I started-out with a design incorporating M&T joinery, and then I got more realistic. I just finished a design I put on my web site to sha http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/ I plan to use SYP for the top--in fact, that was my starting point. One thing I'm still not decided on is how to attach the 2by4's on each end to the 4by4 legs. Nailing an extra piece of 2by4 to left and right side of each joint, like a bandaid, would probably work (but is surely "pitiful" technique). By the way, it may look a little unorthodox, but I put the strechers on the inside to buy myself a little leg room. I'm not actually sure whether the 3 1/2 inches will really make much difference. Also, in my current design, all assembly is done with nails. I'd welcome any comments anyone would care to provide. Cheers! Bill I noticed distinct similarities between your proposed design and my mostly finished reality. I plan turning the bottom of the bench into a cabinet to try to keep some of the dust off my less-used tools. The big thing on top isn't part of the bench, it's a project. ;-) http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/other/bench.jpg A couple things to note: 1) The bench top is designed to allow for clamping. It's at least two inches larger than the base for that reason. 2) The drawer height is designed to allow an item to remain clamped to the top while the drawer is opened. 3) The drawers open from either end (convenient!) 4) The legs are just 1x material. They are two pieces joined at a right angle, which allowed installation of the shelf and drawer box. Puckdropper -- From: "Lee Michaels" leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net I always recommend a shelf a few inches under the top. This creates a space where you can put tools that can be easily accessed when working. And gets them out of the way when you don't need them. I have that on my primary shop bench and it has been a super time saver and organizer. Then put one or two more shelves under there. You can never have too many shelves or storage space in a shop. Make the bench sturdy. One way to do this is to simply make it heavier. Use heavier materials and stack stuff on the shelves. The heavier it is, the more stable of a work surface that you will have. Particularly important if mounting a vise on the bench. Wimpy, light weight benches are mostly useless. Be a man! Be macho! Don't build a pussy bench! And if you want to make it a bit stronger, use some construction adhesive where possible. Nails are OK. I would personally use screws. I built a lot of things with glue and screws. Some of those things are still going strong after 30 years. From: Limp Arbor Newsgroups: rec.woodworking Subject: Designing a work table I need to build a table to mount a machinist vise and for sharpening (a table to to "boot from" in computer parlance). =A0My "Work-Mate" is not suitable for those things. =A0I started-out with a design incorporating M&T joinery, and then I got more realistic. I just finished a design I put on my web site to sha http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/ I plan to =A0use SYP for the top--in fact, that was my starting point. One thing I'm still not decided on is how to attach the 2by4's on each end to the 4by4 legs. Nailing an extra piece of 2by4 to left and right side of each joint, like a bandaid, would probably work (but is surely "pitiful" technique). By the way, it may look a little unorthodox, but I put the strechers on the inside to buy myself a little leg room. I'm not actually sure whether the 3 1/2 inches will really make much difference. Also, in my current design, all assembly is done with nails. I'd welcome any comments anyone would care to provide. Cheers! Bill I would put the upper cross pieces on the side of the legs rather than on top. =A0Nailing into the end grain of the legs will not hold as well. -- G.W. Ross I used to be sane, but I'm feeling much better now.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - A lot of good suggestions that I'll agree with 1 top cross pieces on sides of legs 2 notch legs to inset stretchers 3 top should overhang on all 4 sides 4 use screws or bolts - nails back out easier Another thing you you might want to consider is two feet. I connected the legs of my bench at the bottom with a foot. Helps prevent racking. Makes it easier to level. Makes it easier to move. You msy not plan on it now but at some point you'll put something in that vise to bend or beat on and you want the bench stable. http://www.swigerwoodworks.com/images/Workbench_011.jpg (not mine) - Limp Arbor wrote: On May 4, 6:47 am, "G.W. wrote: Bill wrote: I need to build a table to mount a machinist vise and for sharpening (a table to to "boot from" in computer parlance). My "Work-Mate" is not suitable for those things. I started-out with a design incorporating M&T joinery, and then I got more realistic. I just finished a design I put on my web site to sha http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/ I plan to use SYP for the top--in fact, that was my starting point. One thing I'm still not decided on is how to attach the 2by4's on each end to the 4by4 legs. Nailing an extra piece of 2by4 to left and right side of each joint, like a bandaid, would probably work (but is surely "pitiful" technique). By the way, it may look a little unorthodox, but I put the strechers on the inside to buy myself a little leg room. I'm not actually sure whether the 3 1/2 inches will really make much difference. Also, in my current design, all assembly is done with nails. I'd welcome any comments anyone would care to provide. Cheers! Bill I would put the upper cross pieces on the side of the legs rather than on top. Nailing into the end grain of the legs will not hold as well. -- G.W. Ross I used to be sane, but I'm feeling much better now.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - A lot of good suggestions that I'll agree with 1 top cross pieces on sides of legs 2 notch legs to inset stretchers 3 top should overhang on all 4 sides 4 use screws or bolts - nails back out easier Another thing you you might want to consider is two feet. I connected the legs of my bench at the bottom with a foot. Helps prevent racking. Makes it easier to level. Makes it easier to move. You msy not plan on it now but at some point you'll put something in that vise to bend or beat on and you want the bench stable. http://www.swigerwoodworks.com/images/Workbench_011.jpg (not mine) I built both of mine similar but no overhang in back--I screwed the back legs to the wall. No racking or shaking. -- G.W. Ross I used to be sane, but I'm feeling much better now. Bill wrote: I need to build a table to mount a machinist vise and for sharpening (a table to to "boot from" in computer parlance). My "Work-Mate" is not suitable for those things. I started-out with a design incorporating M&T joinery, and then I got more realistic. I just finished a design I put on my web site to sha http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/ I plan to use SYP for the top--in fact, that was my starting point. One thing I'm still not decided on is how to attach the 2by4's on each end to the 4by4 legs. Nailing an extra piece of 2by4 to left and right side of each joint, like a bandaid, would probably work (but is surely "pitiful" technique). By the way, it may look a little unorthodox, but I put the strechers on the inside to buy myself a little leg room. I'm not actually sure whether the 3 1/2 inches will really make much difference. Also, in my current design, all assembly is done with nails. I'd welcome any comments anyone would care to provide. Cheers! Bill I would put the upper cross pieces on the side of the legs rather than on top. Nailing into the end grain of the legs will not hold as well. -- G.W. Ross I used to be sane, but I'm feeling much better now. Bill wrote: I need to build a table to mount a machinist vise and for sharpening (a table to to "boot from" in computer parlance). My "Work-Mate" is not suitable for those things. I started-out with a design incorporating M&T joinery, and then I got more realistic. I just finished a design I put on my web site to sha http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/ I plan to use SYP for the top--in fact, that was my starting point. One thing I'm still not decided on is how to attach the 2by4's on each end to the 4by4 legs. Nailing an extra piece of 2by4 to left and right side of each joint, like a bandaid, would probably work (but is surely "pitiful" technique). It's a work table. You need 4x4 legs like a hole in the head but hey, it's your table, use 'em if you want 'em. Nail/screw 2x4s to them all the way around at the top, ditto at bottom if you feel the need for stretchers. Fasten on top. Done. If you do use 4x4 legs, I'd cut out 1/2 so 2x4s sit flush to them. ------------------- I'm in the process of doing the same thing. i'm using a plan from Path: news.usenetserver.com!s05-b32.iad!npeersf02.iad.highwinds-media.com!npeer03.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.glorb.com!newsfeed1.swip.net!news.a straweb.com!border6.a.newsrouter.astraweb.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: rec.woodworking Subject: Designing a work table From: Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com References: User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 Date: 04 May 2012 09:05:52 GMT Lines: 44 Message-ID: m Organization: Unlimited download news at news.astraweb.com NNTP-Posting-Host: dcadda41.news.astraweb.com X-Trace: DXC=QHiC120D_5?UH[0COH:iH0L?0kYOcDh@:VVMa5?T]m1Q4O[1bkZfi?0H^XdH3:]6;OFeE@QkAQa9MB_B9?DW;U40LEiJPb;^\4POh_5aRiD?6 X-Received-Bytes: 2626 Xref: news.usenetserver.com rec.woodworking:611783 X-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 09:06:16 UTC (s05-b32.iad) Bill wrote in : I need to build a table to mount a machinist vise and for sharpening (a table to to "boot from" in computer parlance). My "Work-Mate" is not suitable for those things. I started-out with a design incorporating M&T joinery, and then I got more realistic. I just finished a design I put on my web site to sha http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/ I plan to use SYP for the top--in fact, that was my starting point. One thing I'm still not decided on is how to attach the 2by4's on each end to the 4by4 legs. Nailing an extra piece of 2by4 to left and right side of each joint, like a bandaid, would probably work (but is surely "pitiful" technique). By the way, it may look a little unorthodox, but I put the strechers on the inside to buy myself a little leg room. I'm not actually sure whether the 3 1/2 inches will really make much difference. Also, in my current design, all assembly is done with nails. I'd welcome any comments anyone would care to provide. Cheers! Bill Make it a little wider, say 26-28". That way, if you build a piece 2'x4' it will fit on the table easily. I'm going to have to extend the top of my workbench a bit for that exact reason... The width was good, but the length was exactly 48". You may want to consider making the bottom support a shelf or cabinet. Not only will it add some rigidity, but you'll gain some storage space. Instead of putting the supports inside the legs, consider making the base a little smaller than the top. That way, you'll have clamping space around the entire top (near the edges) and you'll get the knee space you desire. At 37" tall, you'll want to stand to use the bench, so it's probably more important to make room for your feet. Puckdropper -- Make it to fit, don't make it fit. Path: news.usenetserver.com!s05-b14.iad!cyclone02.iad!npeer02.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.c om!213.200.89.86.MISMATCH!news1.as3257.net!feeder. erje.net!newsfeed1.swip.net!news.astraweb.com!bord er6.a.newsrouter.astraweb.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: rec.woodworking Subject: Designing a work table From: Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com References: User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 Date: 04 May 2012 09:38:02 GMT Lines: 46 Message-ID: m Organization: Unlimited download news at news.astraweb.com NNTP-Posting-Host: c1351867.news.astraweb.com X-Trace: DXC=I4L8dZ=[cJYmgaITZn1@QL?0kYOcDh@Z:M`8e3iFgZWg\;6GY7WfXX0H^ XdH3:]6[OFeE@QkAQaYMB_B9?DW;UTNT9_YAJbVXbRLNkYNBMNT X-Received-Bytes: 2690 Xref: news.usenetserver.com rec.woodworking:611784 X-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 09:38:03 UTC (s05-b14.iad) Bill wrote in : I need to build a table to mount a machinist vise and for sharpening (a table to to "boot from" in computer parlance). My "Work-Mate" is not suitable for those things. I started-out with a design incorporating M&T joinery, and then I got more realistic. I just finished a design I put on my web site to sha http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/ I plan to use SYP for the top--in fact, that was my starting point. One thing I'm still not decided on is how to attach the 2by4's on each end to the 4by4 legs. Nailing an extra piece of 2by4 to left and right side of each joint, like a bandaid, would probably work (but is surely "pitiful" technique). By the way, it may look a little unorthodox, but I put the strechers on the inside to buy myself a little leg room. I'm not actually sure whether the 3 1/2 inches will really make much difference. Also, in my current design, all assembly is done with nails. I'd welcome any comments anyone would care to provide. Cheers! Bill I noticed distinct similarities between your proposed design and my mostly finished reality. I plan turning the bottom of the bench into a cabinet to try to keep some of the dust off my less-used tools. The big thing on top isn't part of the bench, it's a project. ;-) http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/other/bench.jpg A couple things to note: 1) The bench top is designed to allow for clamping. It's at least two inches larger than the base for that reason. 2) The drawer height is designed to allow an item to remain clamped to the top while the drawer is opened. 3) The drawers open from either end (convenient!) 4) The legs are just 1x material. They are two pieces joined at a right angle, which allowed installation of the shelf and drawer box. Puckdropper -- Make it to fit, don't make it fit. Path: news.usenetserver.com!s05-b03.iad!cyclone02.iad!npeer03.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.glorb.com!news.astraweb.com!border5 .newsrouter.astraweb.com!not-for-mail From: "Lee Michaels" leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net Newsgroups: rec.woodworking References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Designing a work table Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 10:11:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 Lines: 51 Message-ID: m Organization: Unlimited download news at news.astraweb.com NNTP-Posting-Host: bac14583.news.astraweb.com X-Trace: DXC=E@dMdbh1_Qc=3UWcM[dT7dL?0kYOcDh@j4bi8eR:fMjK[4gR8\;la;n^U31oXNSj^lY;EV7N=hgk^D8B5`6Gn`\@eePULA JGj;=E6Dg9R;l X-Received-Bytes: 3208 Xref: news.usenetserver.com rec.woodworking:611797 X-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 14:11:31 UTC (s05-b03.iad) "Bill" wrote in message ... I need to build a table to mount a machinist vise and for sharpening (a table to to "boot from" in computer parlance). My "Work-Mate" is not suitable for those things. I started-out with a design incorporating M&T joinery, and then I got more realistic. I just finished a design I put on my web site to sha http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/ I plan to use SYP for the top--in fact, that was my starting point. One thing I'm still not decided on is how to attach the 2by4's on each end to the 4by4 legs. Nailing an extra piece of 2by4 to left and right side of each joint, like a bandaid, would probably work (but is surely "pitiful" technique). By the way, it may look a little unorthodox, but I put the strechers on the inside to buy myself a little leg room. I'm not actually sure whether the 3 1/2 inches will really make much difference. Also, in my current design, all assembly is done with nails. I'd welcome any comments anyone would care to provide. Cheers! Bill I always recommend a shelf a few inches under the top. This creates a space where you can put tools that can be easily accessed when working. And gets them out of the way when you don't need them. I have that on my primary shop bench and it has been a super time saver and organizer. Then put one or two more shelves under there. You can never have too many shelves or storage space in a shop. Make the bench sturdy. One way to do this is to simply make it heavier. Use heavier materials and stack stuff on the shelves. The heavier it is, the more stable of a work surface that you will have. Particularly important if mounting a vise on the bench. Wimpy, light weight benches are mostly useless. Be a man! Be macho! Don't build a pussy bench! And if you want to make it a bit stronger, use some construction adhesive where possible. Nails are OK. I would personally use screws. I built a lot of things with glue and screws. Some of those things are still going strong after 30 years. Path: news.usenetserver.com!s05-b06.iad!cyclone02.iad!npeer03.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!postnews.google.com!t20g2000vbx.googlegr oups.com!not-for-mail From: Limp Arbor Newsgroups: rec.woodworking Subject: Designing a work table Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 05:37:42 -0700 (PDT) Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 57 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 146.145.112.131 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: posting.google.com 1336135062 20581 127.0.0.1 (4 May 2012 12:37:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 12:37:42 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: Injection-Info: t20g2000vbx.googlegroups.com; posting-host=146.145.112.131; posting-account=O0m2XwoAAABEE_YbP6-QpZlA43VtkFAI User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; InfoPath.2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.30; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.648; .NET CLR 3.0.4506.2152; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET4.0C; .NET4.0E),gzip(gfe) X-Received-Bytes: 3529 Xref: news.usenetserver.com rec.woodworking:611789 X-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 12:37:42 UTC (s05-b06.iad) On May 4, 6:47=A0am, "G.W. Ross" wrote: Bill wrote: I need to build a table to mount a machinist vise and for sharpening (a table to to "boot from" in computer parlance). =A0My "Work-Mate" is not suitable for those things. =A0I started-out with a design incorporating M&T joinery, and then I got more realistic. I just finished a design I put on my web site to sha http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/ I plan to =A0use SYP for the top--in fact, that was my starting point. One thing I'm still not decided on is how to attach the 2by4's on each end to the 4by4 legs. Nailing an extra piece of 2by4 to left and right side of each joint, like a bandaid, would probably work (but is surely "pitiful" technique). By the way, it may look a little unorthodox, but I put the strechers on the inside to buy myself a little leg room. I'm not actually sure whether the 3 1/2 inches will really make much difference. Also, in my current design, all assembly is done with nails. I'd welcome any comments anyone would care to provide. Cheers! Bill I would put the upper cross pieces on the side of the legs rather than on top. =A0Nailing into the end grain of the legs will not hold as well. -- G.W. Ross I used to be sane, but I'm feeling much better now.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - A lot of good suggestions that I'll agree with 1 top cross pieces on sides of legs 2 notch legs to inset stretchers 3 top should overhang on all 4 sides 4 use screws or bolts - nails back out easier Another thing you you might want to consider is two feet. I connected the legs of my bench at the bottom with a foot. Helps prevent racking. Makes it easier to level. Makes it easier to move. You msy not plan on it now but at some point you'll put something in that vise to bend or beat on and you want the bench stable. http://www.swigerwoodworks.com/images/Workbench_011.jpg (not mine) ----------------------------------------------------------- Get free backup service using Drop Box Access your files from your smartphone or tablet Bonus space provided using this link: http://db.tt/RIONkfbZ Path: news.usenetserver.com!s05-b28.iad!cyclone02.iad!npeer01.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!postnews.google.com!news2.google.com!Xl. tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nn tp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!news. giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 08:52:13 -0500 Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 09:52:13 -0400 From: "G.W. Ross" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.19) Gecko/20110420 SeaMonkey/2.0.14 MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.woodworking Subject: Designing a work table References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 120504-0, 05/04/2012), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Message-ID: Lines: 69 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com X-Trace: sv3-wB1cFlhZAZz/Kskogel94PiLyBJFxlQEBm2lsxQ46flqNd6CTRZ271HceId4CY 874lWb12b3NsDXnMx!U5XSvsAmP1ttTYFxvftUzPalIaNm1Vwv 3LPfJgwooJIdZBi6nfnQzGaqzshUiXEShJGiUfqxvaA= X-Complaints-To: X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 X-Original-Bytes: 3770 X-Received-Bytes: 3954 Xref: news.usenetserver.com rec.woodworking:611794 X-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 13:52:13 UTC (s05-b28.iad) Limp Arbor wrote: On May 4, 6:47 am, "G.W. wrote: Bill wrote: I need to build a table to mount a machinist vise and for sharpening (a table to to "boot from" in computer parlance). My "Work-Mate" is not suitable for those things. I started-out with a design incorporating M&T joinery, and then I got more realistic. I just finished a design I put on my web site to sha http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/ I plan to use SYP for the top--in fact, that was my starting point. One thing I'm still not decided on is how to attach the 2by4's on each end to the 4by4 legs. Nailing an extra piece of 2by4 to left and right side of each joint, like a bandaid, would probably work (but is surely "pitiful" technique). By the way, it may look a little unorthodox, but I put the strechers on the inside to buy myself a little leg room. I'm not actually sure whether the 3 1/2 inches will really make much difference. Also, in my current design, all assembly is done with nails. I'd welcome any comments anyone would care to provide. Cheers! Bill I would put the upper cross pieces on the side of the legs rather than on top. Nailing into the end grain of the legs will not hold as well. -- G.W. Ross I used to be sane, but I'm feeling much better now.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - A lot of good suggestions that I'll agree with 1 top cross pieces on sides of legs 2 notch legs to inset stretchers 3 top should overhang on all 4 sides 4 use screws or bolts - nails back out easier Another thing you you might want to consider is two feet. I connected the legs of my bench at the bottom with a foot. Helps prevent racking. Makes it easier to level. Makes it easier to move. You msy not plan on it now but at some point you'll put something in that vise to bend or beat on and you want the bench stable. http://www.swigerwoodworks.com/images/Workbench_011.jpg (not mine) I built both of mine similar but no overhang in back--I screwed the back legs to the wall. No racking or shaking. -- G.W. Ross I used to be sane, but I'm feeling much better now. Path: news.usenetserver.com!s05-b38.iad!cyclone02.iad!npeer03.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!postnews.google.com!news1.google.com!Xl. tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nn tp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!news. giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 05:47:10 -0500 Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 06:47:10 -0400 From: "G.W. Ross" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.19) Gecko/20110420 SeaMonkey/2.0.14 MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.woodworking Subject: Designing a work table References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 120504-0, 05/04/2012), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Message-ID: Lines: 40 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com X-Trace: sv3-xFlX1gRypX4ODSs8TpjsAkflRe+exxqni8GK5EwG6eHBvq8SYy t/WZr3F/eywmGwuHzFcre4EOBNokC!IiYxSeIq3/ITzYD/temdQTXoopUe36b5IjlIPEQw2LB3JlQ9y12jbpkEv8qhr4tuHV 2WSgSOUdI= X-Complaints-To: X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 X-Original-Bytes: 2531 X-Received-Bytes: 2715 Xref: news.usenetserver.com rec.woodworking:611786 X-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 10:47:11 UTC (s05-b38.iad) Bill wrote: I need to build a table to mount a machinist vise and for sharpening (a table to to "boot from" in computer parlance). My "Work-Mate" is not suitable for those things. I started-out with a design incorporating M&T joinery, and then I got more realistic. I just finished a design I put on my web site to sha http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/ I plan to use SYP for the top--in fact, that was my starting point. One thing I'm still not decided on is how to attach the 2by4's on each end to the 4by4 legs. Nailing an extra piece of 2by4 to left and right side of each joint, like a bandaid, would probably work (but is surely "pitiful" technique). By the way, it may look a little unorthodox, but I put the strechers on the inside to buy myself a little leg room. I'm not actually sure whether the 3 1/2 inches will really make much difference. Also, in my current design, all assembly is done with nails. I'd welcome any comments anyone would care to provide. Cheers! Bill I would put the upper cross pieces on the side of the legs rather than on top. Nailing into the end grain of the legs will not hold as well. -- G.W. Ross I used to be sane, but I'm feeling much better now. Path: news.usenetserver.com!s05-b06.iad!cyclone02.iad!npeer02.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.c om!news2.euro.net!news.mixmin.net!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!mx04.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "dadiOH" Newsgroups: rec.woodworking Subject: Designing a work table Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 07:49:17 -0400 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 32 Message-ID: References: Injection-Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 11:50:03 +0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: mx04.eternal-september.org; posting-host="DfZQwKQQ/M4yCn3vJ50MWA"; logging-data="14646"; "; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+3HDwYbvGVFiwUu/7ZTdfC" X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 110920-0, 09/20/2011), Outbound message Cancel-Lock: sha1:WnOwumLGUrhi1SH6ssyrb4Cp++I= X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5512 X-Received-Bytes: 2307 Xref: news.usenetserver.com rec.woodworking:611787 X-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 11:50:03 UTC (s05-b06.iad) Bill wrote: I need to build a table to mount a machinist vise and for sharpening (a table to to "boot from" in computer parlance). My "Work-Mate" is not suitable for those things. I started-out with a design incorporating M&T joinery, and then I got more realistic. I just finished a design I put on my web site to sha http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/ I plan to use SYP for the top--in fact, that was my starting point. One thing I'm still not decided on is how to attach the 2by4's on each end to the 4by4 legs. Nailing an extra piece of 2by4 to left and right side of each joint, like a bandaid, would probably work (but is surely "pitiful" technique). It's a work table. You need 4x4 legs like a hole in the head but hey, it's your table, use 'em if you want 'em. Nail/screw 2x4s to them all the way around at the top, ditto at bottom if you feel the need for stretchers. Fasten on top. Done. If you do use 4x4 legs, I'd cut out 1/2 so 2x4s sit flush to them. ------------------------- Bill- I'm in the process of doing the same thing. I'm using a plan from http://www.woodsmithshop.com/downloa...-workbench.pdf with slight modifications. Mine will be wall mounted, a couple of inches higher, have two shelves, and go all the way to the floor to keep out dust and critters. There's also a video available. Panels on the sides provide stability. See the picture in the a.b.pictures.woodworking group. A fancier version using the same design but out of maple and with drawers is in Woodsmith - 133 - Feb 2001 - Heavy Duty Workbench. Your plan looks top-heavy and like it might stand a good chance of racking, especially after mounting a vise. I think stretchers like are shown on the plan would work better. If it's wall mounted, that may solve it, depending on how you mount it. See also the picture of how Woodsmith mounts a machinist's vise to the same table. -J |
Designing a work table
Joe wrote:
I'm in the process of doing the same thing. I'm using a plan fromhttp://www.woodsmithshop.com/download/206/heavy-duty-workbench.pdf with slight modifications. Mine will be wall mounted, a couple of inches higher, have two shelves, and go all the way to the floor to keep out dust and critters. There's also a video available. Panels on the sides provide stability. See the picture in the a.b.pictures.woodworking group. A fancier version using the same design but out of maple and with drawers is in Woodsmith - 133 - Feb 2001 - Heavy Duty Workbench. Your plan looks top-heavy and like it might stand a good chance of racking, especially after mounting a vise. I think stretchers like are shown on the plan would work better. If it's wall mounted, that may solve it, depending on how you mount it. See also the picture of how Woodsmith mounts a machinist's vise to the same table. -J I may indeed borrow the idea of using an "overlap joint" for my stretchers, which is the key part of what you are suggesting, I believe. Dare I try to make such joints with a hand-held circular saw and a chisel? No replies from any SS owners please! : ) |
Designing a work table
Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote: I may indeed borrow the idea of using an "overlap joint" for my stretchers, which is the key part of what you are suggesting, I believe. Dare I try to make such joints with a hand-held circular saw and a chisel? No replies from any SS owners please! : ) Don't even need the chisel Bill. Cool. I'll try it then. When I've seen folks do it on TV, they make a bunch of cuts with a TS (maybe it was a hand saw?) and then use a chisel. I guess you are suggesting that, towards the end, you can use the circular saw a little like a router! |
Designing a work table
"Bill" wrote in message ... Joe wrote: I'm in the process of doing the same thing. I'm using a plan fromhttp://www.woodsmithshop.com/download/206/heavy-duty-workbench.pdf with slight modifications. Mine will be wall mounted, a couple of inches higher, have two shelves, and go all the way to the floor to keep out dust and critters. There's also a video available. Panels on the sides provide stability. See the picture in the a.b.pictures.woodworking group. A fancier version using the same design but out of maple and with drawers is in Woodsmith - 133 - Feb 2001 - Heavy Duty Workbench. Your plan looks top-heavy and like it might stand a good chance of racking, especially after mounting a vise. I think stretchers like are shown on the plan would work better. If it's wall mounted, that may solve it, depending on how you mount it. See also the picture of how Woodsmith mounts a machinist's vise to the same table. -J I may indeed borrow the idea of using an "overlap joint" for my stretchers, which is the key part of what you are suggesting, I believe. Dare I try to make such joints with a hand-held circular saw and a chisel? No replies from any SS owners please! : ) I have made a ton of things with lap joints. I used both radial arm saws and circular saws. If you make enough cuts, almost nothing is left in the bottom of the joint. Any chisel work is just to clean it up and make it absolutely flat. But if you do a good enough job with the cuts, almost nothing is left to smooth out. |
Designing a work table
"Lee Michaels" wrote: I have made a ton of things with lap joints. I used both radial arm saws and circular saws. If you make enough cuts, almost nothing is left in the bottom of the joint. Any chisel work is just to clean it up and make it absolutely flat. But if you do a good enough job with the cuts, almost nothing is left to smooth out. ------------------------------------ A blade with a flat top grind makes life easier. Lew |
Designing a work table
On Fri, 4 May 2012 22:15:59 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
I have made a ton of things with lap joints. I used both radial arm A blade with a flat top grind makes life easier. And, a dado blade makes lap joints a breeze. |
Designing a work table
Dave wrote:
On Fri, 4 May 2012 22:15:59 -0700, "Lew Hodgett" I have made a ton of things with lap joints. I used both radial arm A blade with a flat top grind makes life easier. And, a dado blade makes lap joints a breeze. That wouldn't be sportsman-like! ; ) |
Designing a work table
Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote: Bill wrote: I may indeed borrow the idea of using an "overlap joint" for my stretchers, which is the key part of what you are suggesting, I believe. Dare I try to make such joints with a hand-held circular saw and a chisel? No replies from any SS owners please! : ) Don't even need the chisel Bill. Cool. I'll try it then. When I've seen folks do it on TV, they make a bunch of cuts with a TS (maybe it was a hand saw?) and then use a chisel. I guess you are suggesting that, towards the end, you can use the circular saw a little like a router! You can cut your half laps with cuts from two different directions. One down through the end grain, and one cross cut. -- -Mike- |
Designing a work table
Bill wrote:
I may indeed borrow the idea of using an "overlap joint" for my stretchers, which is the key part of what you are suggesting, I believe. Dare I try to make such joints with a hand-held circular saw and a chisel? No replies from any SS owners please! : ) You could. It would be a lot easier with a bandsaw. Not hard with a table or radial saw either...just make a number of crosscuts to the proper depth, pop out the excess, clean up with chisel and/or rasp. Do it the same way with a circular saw. You could even use a chain saw. Or a hand saw. -- dadiOH ____________________________ dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico |
Designing a work table
On 5/5/2012 2:42 AM, Bill wrote:
Dave wrote: On Fri, 4 May 2012 22:15:59 -0700, "Lew Hodgett" I have made a ton of things with lap joints. I used both radial arm A blade with a flat top grind makes life easier. And, a dado blade makes lap joints a breeze. That wouldn't be sportsman-like! ; ) A good sharp No. 71 (or 71-1/2) Stanley router plane is a great tool for cleaning up the irregularities left by the saw blade at the bottom of a dado or rabbet. A lot more fun and very sportsman-like. :-) -- Free bad advice available here. To reply, eat the taco. http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/ |
Designing a work table
On 5/5/2012 8:21 AM, dadiOH wrote:
Bill wrote: I may indeed borrow the idea of using an "overlap joint" for my stretchers, which is the key part of what you are suggesting, I believe. Dare I try to make such joints with a hand-held circular saw and a chisel? No replies from any SS owners please! : ) You could. It would be a lot easier with a bandsaw. Not hard with a table or radial saw either...just make a number of crosscuts to the proper depth, pop out the excess, clean up with chisel and/or rasp. Do it the same way with a circular saw. You could even use a chain saw. Or a hand saw. Good points. Not all of them apply to making the cut in the middle of a 4by4. I don't have a table saw yet. I didn't quite realize I could count on a BS for glue-able flatness--I suppose with a 1/2" blade (which I have). Among other things, this table is going to be my "Scarey-Sharp" sharpening station. I may have to practice my Scarey-Sharp technique in the kitchen first before I complete this project! : ) Thanks! Bill |
Designing a work table
Bill you've seen the Nike commercials.. The ones that say
JUST DO IT right? JUST DO IT! On 5/5/2012 1:25 PM, Bill wrote: On 5/5/2012 8:21 AM, dadiOH wrote: Bill wrote: I may indeed borrow the idea of using an "overlap joint" for my stretchers, which is the key part of what you are suggesting, I believe. Dare I try to make such joints with a hand-held circular saw and a chisel? No replies from any SS owners please! : ) You could. It would be a lot easier with a bandsaw. Not hard with a table or radial saw either...just make a number of crosscuts to the proper depth, pop out the excess, clean up with chisel and/or rasp. Do it the same way with a circular saw. You could even use a chain saw. Or a hand saw. Good points. Not all of them apply to making the cut in the middle of a 4by4. I don't have a table saw yet. I didn't quite realize I could count on a BS for glue-able flatness--I suppose with a 1/2" blade (which I have). Among other things, this table is going to be my "Scarey-Sharp" sharpening station. I may have to practice my Scarey-Sharp technique in the kitchen first before I complete this project! : ) Thanks! Bill |
Designing a work table
"tiredofspam" wrote: Bill you've seen the Nike commercials.. The ones that say JUST DO IT right? JUST DO IT! -------------------------------------- Then Bill would have to quit "window shopping" and start spending some money. It isn't ever going to happen. Lew |
Designing a work table
tiredofspam wrote:
Bill you've seen the Nike commercials.. The ones that say JUST DO IT right? JUST DO IT! ....Working on getting to it. Hang in there! I... woke up this morning... Lookin' 'round for my shoes.... Some cat stole my Nikes... and now I got the walking blues; They was just there yesterday.. Just sitting next to my saw..(tenny's ain't good for working ya know) And they was still there this morning... I may never shake these walking blues, Cause a certain man thinks I'm boring; (With all due apologies to Robert Johnson) : ) |
Designing a work table
|
Designing a work table
Mike Marlow wrote:
tiredofspam wrote: Bill you've seen the Nike commercials.. The ones that say JUST DO IT right? JUST DO IT! Ugh-oh... I'm going to get blamed for this post... Oh well, since I am, I'll just echo the sentiment! Do it and learn from it! There - I feel better now... Good, it's too late for me to write another verse! lol. |
Designing a work table
On 5/6/2012 12:32 AM, Mike Marlow wrote: tiredofspam wrote: Bill you've seen the Nike commercials.. The ones that say JUST DO IT right? JUST DO IT! Ugh-oh... I'm going to get blamed for this post... Oh well, since I am, I'll just echo the sentiment! Do it and learn from it! Exactly. That's how you get better. There - I feel better now... |
Designing a work table
BTW Bill, everyone makes mistakes.
What makes a good woodworker, or any craftsperson, is how they fix their mistakes. You learn to hide, or enhance it. Sometimes you take a different tack... But you'll never learn until you do. And after a while it will become second nature. You'll find yourself not thinking about it, just doing it. Along the road you will feel very good when you complete a process and it went well and looks well. Making anything is just learning to work in order, and chunk it down. Don't be overwhelmed, just chunk it down. Learning to work efficiently is learning to work: In order You can't build draws until the carcas is complete. On something else while something is drying. Just keep going, make a mistake?? Figure out how you can fix it. If you can't start again on that module. On 5/6/2012 12:32 AM, Mike Marlow wrote: tiredofspam wrote: Bill you've seen the Nike commercials.. The ones that say JUST DO IT right? JUST DO IT! Ugh-oh... I'm going to get blamed for this post... Oh well, since I am, I'll just echo the sentiment! Do it and learn from it! There - I feel better now... |
Designing a work table
tiredofspam wrote:
Making anything is just learning to work in order, and chunk it down. Don't be overwhelmed, just chunk it down. Learning to work efficiently is learning to work: In order You can't build draws until the carcas is complete. On something else while something is drying. Yes, I have been somewhat surprised to find myself using the same principles in my woodworking-related projects that I would use in non-woodworking work. Especially Lists! And I'm still struggling with the idea that I don't have to save all of my documentation! : ) I'll be able to get back to ww stuff soon. The AC broke today (only blows room temperature air). But, I'm a little ahead of the game this year, compared to last year when it also broke (twice: solenoid and a pin-hole leak). I had mentioned it last year, else I wouldn't have brought it up. I just examined the solenoid, and it is not "split" like last year, so it's time to call a pro. A lightning strike last week took out the furnaces of two houses accross the street. I considered myself lucky. But I'm not sure whether a big electrical strike to the ground could cause a refrigerant leak, like I suspect I probably have, or not. Since I'll be paying the bill either way it's sort of an academic question. : ) |
Designing a work table
tiredofspam nospam.nospam.com wrote in
: *snip* You learn to hide, or enhance it. Sometimes you take a different tack... But you'll never learn until you do. And after a while it will become second nature. You'll find yourself not thinking about it, just doing it. Along the road you will feel very good when you complete a process and it went well and looks well. *snip* Sometimes the best place to hide a mistake is in plain sight. Just leave it there and don't advertise it. Puckdropper -- Make it to fit, don't make it fit. |
Designing a work table
tiredofspam wrote:
Bill you've seen the Nike commercials.. The ones that say JUST DO IT One thing I try to impress upon my students is Design, Design, Design! Some of them don't understand, so I may explain with more emphasis: Design, Design, Design, Design, Design, Design! (slight exaggeration) I say, "You're nodding, but I still don't think you appreciate it (what is behind the words) enough". I suggest that when confronted with a job interview, or similar, that they could do a lot worse than to reveal a sacred point of view regarding design. At least they encountered one person who defended a, perhaps, unusually-euphoric reverence for it. Admittedly, I explain, a careful design may be of less importance on a project you intend to build by yourself in one day. Still, the world might be a better place if more people embraced the D-word. For a software developer, I consider it evidence of maturity. I am almost reticent to share now that I think it holds its weight in this environment too. How likely is it that a result will be superior to a plan? Experience has shown too that the sooner one can identify a problem, the cheaper and easier it is to fix it. It is interesting to note that, timewise, cutting wood, depending on how one defines cutting wood fibers, may amount to less than 1% of a ww project, yet it, the materials, could represent a significant proportion of the cost of the project. The woodworking materials may not even be directly replaceable. In short, there is probably adequate time to DO IT, after one has crafted a design. Of course, as most everyone is aware, design can take many forms, such as building a prototype, or involve practicing the unfamiliar, but don't get me started... Cheers, with a capital D, Bill |
Designing a work table
Bill wrote in :
tiredofspam wrote: Bill you've seen the Nike commercials.. The ones that say JUST DO IT One thing I try to impress upon my students is Design, Design, Design! Some of them don't understand, so I may explain with more emphasis: Design, Design, Design, Design, Design, Design! (slight exaggeration) I say, "You're nodding, but I still don't think you appreciate it (what is behind the words) enough". I suggest that when confronted with a job interview, or similar, that they could do a lot worse than to reveal a sacred point of view regarding design. At least they encountered one person who defended a, perhaps, unusually-euphoric reverence for it. Admittedly, I explain, a careful design may be of less importance on a project you intend to build by yourself in one day. Still, the world might be a better place if more people embraced the D-word. For a software developer, I consider it evidence of maturity. I am almost reticent to share now that I think it holds its weight in this environment too. How likely is it that a result will be superior to a plan? Experience has shown too that the sooner one can identify a problem, the cheaper and easier it is to fix it. It is interesting to note that, timewise, cutting wood, depending on how one defines cutting wood fibers, may amount to less than 1% of a ww project, yet it, the materials, could represent a significant proportion of the cost of the project. The woodworking materials may not even be directly replaceable. In short, there is probably adequate time to DO IT, after one has crafted a design. Of course, as most everyone is aware, design can take many forms, such as building a prototype, or involve practicing the unfamiliar, but don't get me started... Cheers, with a capital D, Bill A driver has to deliver packages to points A, B, C, D, E and F. The route can use any legal street. Calculate the best route. Design 1: Find the best route between all roads. Design 2: Just do it. Design 3: Avoid the worst, don't worry about minor inefficiencies. Results ------- Design 1: Starts extremly slowly, but extremely efficient when done... Except locations C and D have moved, E went out of business and A has sued for failure to comply with the delivery contract. Design 2: Starts immediately, but is usually rather inefficient. The 20 mile round trip takes 200 miles and two tanks of gas while the driver attempts to go through a construction zone traffic jam. Design 3: Starts reasonably quickly, but is usually good enough. The 20 mile round trip takes 25 miles, avoids the traffic jam and the driver is home in time to watch Roy, Tommy Mac and the guy with the moustache on Woodsmith Shop. If you look at your projects as a series of goals, and divide them into major and minor goals then address the major ones in the design and get as many of the minor ones in as possible you'll most likely get a good result. Strive for perfection, but recognize when "good enough" has been attained and stop there. Puckdropper -- Make it to fit, don't make it fit. |
Designing a work table
Bill wrote:
snip Admittedly, I explain, a careful design may be of less importance on a project you intend to build by yourself in one day. Still, the world might be a better place if more people embraced the D-word. For a software developer, I consider it evidence of maturity. I am almost reticent to share now that I think it holds its weight in this environment too. How likely is it that a result will be superior to a plan? Very. What seems like a good idea on paper is often stupid or impossible in reality. There are times when strict adherence to a plan is necessary but IMO & IME hobbyist woodworking is not among them. -- dadiOH ____________________________ dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico |
Designing a work table
Puckdropper wrote:
wrote in : tiredofspam wrote: Bill you've seen the Nike commercials.. The ones that say JUST DO IT One thing I try to impress upon my students is Design, Design, Design! Some of them don't understand, so I may explain with more emphasis: Design, Design, Design, Design, Design, Design! (slight exaggeration) I say, "You're nodding, but I still don't think you appreciate it (what is behind the words) enough". I suggest that when confronted with a job interview, or similar, that they could do a lot worse than to reveal a sacred point of view regarding design. At least they encountered one person who defended a, perhaps, unusually-euphoric reverence for it. Admittedly, I explain, a careful design may be of less importance on a project you intend to build by yourself in one day. Still, the world might be a better place if more people embraced the D-word. For a software developer, I consider it evidence of maturity. I am almost reticent to share now that I think it holds its weight in this environment too. How likely is it that a result will be superior to a plan? Experience has shown too that the sooner one can identify a problem, the cheaper and easier it is to fix it. It is interesting to note that, timewise, cutting wood, depending on how one defines cutting wood fibers, may amount to less than 1% of a ww project, yet it, the materials, could represent a significant proportion of the cost of the project. The woodworking materials may not even be directly replaceable. In short, there is probably adequate time to DO IT, after one has crafted a design. Of course, as most everyone is aware, design can take many forms, such as building a prototype, or involve practicing the unfamiliar, but don't get me started... Cheers, with a capital D, Bill A driver has to deliver packages to points A, B, C, D, E and F. The route can use any legal street. Calculate the best route. Design 1: Find the best route between all roads. Design 2: Just do it. Design 3: Avoid the worst, don't worry about minor inefficiencies. Led by me, my students and I solved your problem a few years ago. All you really need is a time or distance function dist(p1, p2) between each pairs of points p1 and p2 in {A, B, C, ..., F} and a "brute force" search (through all of the possibilities). Once you find a route, you need not consider a longer one, so the search list is not insurmountable. I think the shipping companies take this many steps further. With gas at $4/gallon, you can't afford to assume all of your drivers are equally equipped to choose a good route. In fact, you'd probably prefer that they be driving rather than looking at maps. Results ------- Design 1: Starts extremly slowly, but extremely efficient when done... Except locations C and D have moved, E went out of business and A has sued for failure to comply with the delivery contract. Design 2: Starts immediately, but is usually rather inefficient. The 20 mile round trip takes 200 miles and two tanks of gas while the driver attempts to go through a construction zone traffic jam. Design 3: Starts reasonably quickly, but is usually good enough. The 20 mile round trip takes 25 miles, avoids the traffic jam and the driver is home in time to watch Roy, Tommy Mac and the guy with the moustache on Woodsmith Shop. If you look at your projects as a series of goals, and divide them into major and minor goals then address the major ones in the design and get as many of the minor ones in as possible you'll most likely get a good result. Yes, I basically agree. "Lists" are my secret to getting things done. I use separate lists for home, work and play. Strive for perfection, but recognize when "good enough" has been attained and stop there. It's not even easy to get "good enough" out of a lot of people. Good luck to you with your results if you request it! I can see the stacks of folded shirts at JC Penny's now which are folded "good enough"! : ) Cheers, Bill Puckdropper |
Designing a work table
dadiOH wrote:
Bill wrote: snip Admittedly, I explain, a careful design may be of less importance on a project you intend to build by yourself in one day. Still, the world might be a better place if more people embraced the D-word. For a software developer, I consider it evidence of maturity. I am almost reticent to share now that I think it holds its weight in this environment too. How likely is it that a result will be superior to a plan? Very. What seems like a good idea on paper is often stupid or impossible in reality. I have to yield to your experience in woodworking, which is certainly far greater than mine. But, I'm on the 3rd version (plan) of my work table now and i have not wasted a single board. Without this approach, I'd still be building the 1st inferior version. I built, almost by the seat of my pants, when I was a teenager. Now I draw more. Perhaps after I've acquired more experience I'll draw less. At the level I'm at now, I make stupid mistakes if I'm not careful--and having a plan helps me be careful. There are times when strict adherence to a plan is necessary but IMO& IME hobbyist woodworking is not among them. No one said anything about strict adherence. I know people struggling in life because they don't have and won't make a plan (seriously)... Best to you, Bill |
Designing a work table
dadiOH wrote:
There are times when strict adherence to a plan is necessary but IMO& IME hobbyist woodworking is not among them. Where does designing jigs, for instance, fit in there? That's about the last thing I want to have to do when the planets are aligned and I have the time to actually be running machinery. I would confess, if I ended up in that position, that I hadn't planned well. |
Designing a work table
|
Designing a work table
On 5/7/2012 1:59 AM, Bill wrote:
I am almost reticent to share now that I think it holds its weight in this environment too. How likely is it that a result will be superior to a plan? Experience has shown too that the sooner one can identify a problem, the cheaper and easier it is to fix it. The difference between mediocrity and supremacy is attention to detail; and that detail is the essence of what a plan/design provides. You just described the importance of using a design tool, which was why it was so exciting to me to get my hands on an easy to use design tool like Sketchup when it first became available. Make a detailed plan, and execute the plan, and you can win wars and build skyscrapers. -- www.eWoodShop.com Last update: 4/15/2010 KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) http://gplus.to/eWoodShop |
Designing a work table
Swingman wrote:
On 5/7/2012 1:59 AM, Bill wrote: I am almost reticent to share now that I think it holds its weight in this environment too. How likely is it that a result will be superior to a plan? Experience has shown too that the sooner one can identify a problem, the cheaper and easier it is to fix it. The difference between mediocrity and supremacy is attention to detail; and that detail is the essence of what a plan/design provides. You just described the importance of using a design tool, which was why it was so exciting to me to get my hands on an easy to use design tool like Sketchup when it first became available. Make a detailed plan, and execute the plan, and you can win wars and build skyscrapers. Put me down as a believer. I'm struggling to convert the masses. I think it's a great deal easier to become a believer AFTER you've learned your way around SU a bit. Everytime I use SU, it shows me my technique isn't all that good, but that's a work in progress! %-) |
Designing a work table
"J. Clarke" wrote In the case of the "first bench", get a load of nails and 2x6s from Home Despot and hammer something vaguely bench-like together and you'll have killed two birds. First you'll have a work surface, however crappy, and second after you've used it a while you'll have a better idea of what you really want. I have built a bunch of these temporary benches over the years. Some of them are still going after thirty years. They don't die. One idea that just spontaneously occurred was to put one outside. This becomes a work surface that is available, when weather permits, and doesn't tie up shop space. One bench I set up had the top warp a bit. I just took some 2 X 6's and nailed them on the top it. It wasn't pretty, but it worked. I have also done this with plywood. I built a wood box out of 2 X 12's and put a plywood bottom on it. When I moved I was going to cut it up and burn it. I set it out on the patio in back and turned it over. It became my outside work bench. I recently screwed in some deck screws to control some warping on the side. The top is still good and fairly level. It just keeps going and going. It has been out there for about seven years now. Never under estimate the usefulness of simple building materials banged together for a certain purpose. Every thing you build does not have to be art or furniture. Sometimes quick and dirty is all that is needed and can provide some useful support for more complex builds. It can also happen much more quickly than more complex builds. Saves a bunch of time. |
Designing a work table
On 5/7/2012 4:33 AM, Bill wrote:
Puckdropper wrote: wrote in : tiredofspam wrote: Bill you've seen the Nike commercials.. The ones that say JUST DO IT One thing I try to impress upon my students is Design, Design, Design! Some of them don't understand, so I may explain with more emphasis: Design, Design, Design, Design, Design, Design! (slight exaggeration) I say, "You're nodding, but I still don't think you appreciate it (what is behind the words) enough". I suggest that when confronted with a job interview, or similar, that they could do a lot worse than to reveal a sacred point of view regarding design. At least they encountered one person who defended a, perhaps, unusually-euphoric reverence for it. Admittedly, I explain, a careful design may be of less importance on a project you intend to build by yourself in one day. Still, the world might be a better place if more people embraced the D-word. For a software developer, I consider it evidence of maturity. I am almost reticent to share now that I think it holds its weight in this environment too. How likely is it that a result will be superior to a plan? Experience has shown too that the sooner one can identify a problem, the cheaper and easier it is to fix it. It is interesting to note that, timewise, cutting wood, depending on how one defines cutting wood fibers, may amount to less than 1% of a ww project, yet it, the materials, could represent a significant proportion of the cost of the project. The woodworking materials may not even be directly replaceable. In short, there is probably adequate time to DO IT, after one has crafted a design. Of course, as most everyone is aware, design can take many forms, such as building a prototype, or involve practicing the unfamiliar, but don't get me started... Cheers, with a capital D, Bill A driver has to deliver packages to points A, B, C, D, E and F. The route can use any legal street. Calculate the best route. Design 1: Find the best route between all roads. Design 2: Just do it. Design 3: Avoid the worst, don't worry about minor inefficiencies. Led by me, my students and I solved your problem a few years ago. All you really need is a time or distance function dist(p1, p2) between each pairs of points p1 and p2 in {A, B, C, ..., F} and a "brute force" search (through all of the possibilities). Once you find a route, you need not consider a longer one, so the search list is not insurmountable. I think the shipping companies take this many steps further. With gas at $4/gallon, you can't afford to assume all of your drivers are equally equipped to choose a good route. In fact, you'd probably prefer that they be driving rather than looking at maps. a simple djikstra's algorithm Results ------- Design 1: Starts extremly slowly, but extremely efficient when done... Except locations C and D have moved, E went out of business and A has sued for failure to comply with the delivery contract. Design 2: Starts immediately, but is usually rather inefficient. The 20 mile round trip takes 200 miles and two tanks of gas while the driver attempts to go through a construction zone traffic jam. Design 3: Starts reasonably quickly, but is usually good enough. The 20 mile round trip takes 25 miles, avoids the traffic jam and the driver is home in time to watch Roy, Tommy Mac and the guy with the moustache on Woodsmith Shop. If you look at your projects as a series of goals, and divide them into major and minor goals then address the major ones in the design and get as many of the minor ones in as possible you'll most likely get a good result. Yes, I basically agree. "Lists" are my secret to getting things done. I use separate lists for home, work and play. Strive for perfection, but recognize when "good enough" has been attained and stop there. It's not even easy to get "good enough" out of a lot of people. Good luck to you with your results if you request it! I can see the stacks of folded shirts at JC Penny's now which are folded "good enough"! : ) Cheers, Bill Puckdropper |
Designing a work table
Bill wrote:
I have to yield to your experience in woodworking, which is certainly far greater than mine. But, I'm on the 3rd version (plan) of my work table now and i have not wasted a single board. Without this approach, I'd still be building the 1st inferior version. I built, almost by the seat of my pants, when I was a teenager. Now I draw more. Perhaps after I've acquired more experience I'll draw less. At the level I'm at now, I make stupid mistakes if I'm not careful--and having a plan helps me be careful. Well Bill - as one of the more consistent voices encouraging you to get out and do it, I'll step back and say that I absolutely understand what you are saying here. I think you raise a very valid point. I spend untold amounts of time thinking my way through new ventures, and considering the alternatives. Like you - when I finally get at it, I don't want any more re-runs than are necessary. For me - I come up with ideas in my own head. Then, I utilize tools like google to validate whether my homegrown ideas have merit or weaknesses. That part of my process is usually reasonably quick. If I find something that I can't resolve between my ideas and what I see others doing, then I'll throw it out to a community like this for input. It usually does not take me long to resolve this entire process and to get moving on into production. So - what I'm saying is simply that I do understand your reluctance. All that said - for small, simple, cheap things like your table project... there is an equally valid notion that says if you just go do it, you'll learn from it. You'll learn those things that you are trying to get all in a row right now. Sure... you'll make a mistake and have to re-do something. Oh well - that's not all that bad. If you are trying to engage in something new, and to plan it so precisely as to anticipate the ultimate in perfection on your first go around, you're probably putting too much emphasis on the planning part. Hell - with the best of planning, we can still find a way to screw something up. What most of us are trying to say when we say to just do it, is that you simply cannot fully plan the perfect execution, and despite the best of planning, you will have other aspects of the job (actually using the tools for example), that fall outside of the plan. You can plan the job perfectly, but until you master some of the mechanical skills, the plan is just an abstraction. The two go together, and as much as planning is a requirement, doing the work is an equal requirement. There are times when strict adherence to a plan is necessary but IMO& IME hobbyist woodworking is not among them. No one said anything about strict adherence. I know people struggling in life because they don't have and won't make a plan (seriously)... Sure - a very valid point. Equally so are the numbers of people who never got out of the box because they just couldn't get past the analysis stage. Remember - after the perfect plan, comes the ability to perfectly execute the plan. That only comes with practice and... unfortunately - some amount of mistakes. -- -Mike- |
Designing a work table
Bill wrote:
dadiOH wrote: There are times when strict adherence to a plan is necessary but IMO& IME hobbyist woodworking is not among them. Where does designing jigs, for instance, fit in there? That's about the last thing I want to have to do when the planets are aligned and I have the time to actually be running machinery. Agreed! The worst part of jigs in my opinion is the distraction they create from the actual work process, to me. Damn! Another set up type of requirement. I just want to get going! But - that's a tad different from over planning on the front end. I would confess, if I ended up in that position, that I hadn't planned well. Maybe so. Or - maybe not. I've encountered many tasks where I discovered mid-project that I needed something I had not anticipated. That can happen for a lot of reasons. If you consider that to be poor planning, then I fear you will never get out of the planning stages of anything. -- -Mike- |
Designing a work table
Swingman wrote:
The difference between mediocrity and supremacy is attention to detail; and that detail is the essence of what a plan/design provides. For some things - agreed. Very much so. For other things - not so much. Some things are purely utilitarian, and detail be damned. For example - I need a sawhorse now. I can spend all kinds of time designing and creating the perfect sawhorse, or I can crudely knock one together to get the job done. Who really cares if it has any usefullness beyond the next 20 hours? I simply need to get this done. So - there is a simple case where ability and capability, accompanied by a modicum of experience, result in perfection in time of need. Not at all elegant. Might even end up in the burn pile at the end. So what? Didn't need art. You just described the importance of using a design tool, which was why it was so exciting to me to get my hands on an easy to use design tool like Sketchup when it first became available. Inarguable when it comes to the stuff you normall deal in. Different though, when dealing with utilitarian stuff. Make a detailed plan, and execute the plan, and you can win wars and build skyscrapers. Only if the skyscraper actually ever begins to be built. -- -Mike- |
Designing a work table
Bill wrote:
Put me down as a believer. I'm struggling to convert the masses. So - the guy who has not put nail to wood is attempting to convert the masses? Silly. I think it's a great deal easier to become a believer AFTER you've learned your way around SU a bit. That's a fine belief, but how do you really expect to convince people who actually perform the work you dream of, without all of that elaborate planning? Everytime I use SU, it shows me my technique isn't all that good, but that's a work in progress! %-) Wait until you discover what your hammer and your saw actually show you. -- -Mike- |
Designing a work table
On 5/7/2012 12:20 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Swingman wrote: The difference between mediocrity and supremacy is attention to detail; and that detail is the essence of what a plan/design provides. For some things - agreed. Very much so. For other things - not so much. Some things are purely utilitarian, and detail be damned. For example - I need a sawhorse now. I can spend all kinds of time designing and creating the perfect sawhorse, or I can crudely knock one together to get the job done. Who really cares if it has any usefullness beyond the next 20 hours? I simply need to get this done. So - there is a simple case where ability and capability, accompanied by a modicum of experience, result in perfection in time of need. Not at all elegant. Might even end up in the burn pile at the end. So what? Didn't need art. You just described the importance of using a design tool, which was why it was so exciting to me to get my hands on an easy to use design tool like Sketchup when it first became available. Inarguable when it comes to the stuff you normall deal in. Different though, when dealing with utilitarian stuff. Make a detailed plan, and execute the plan, and you can win wars and build skyscrapers. Only if the skyscraper actually ever begins to be built. Perfect examples why you will never win a war, or build a skyscraper. :) -- www.eWoodShop.com Last update: 4/15/2010 KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) http://gplus.to/eWoodShop |
Designing a work table
On 5/7/2012 8:35 AM, Bill wrote:
Swingman wrote: On 5/7/2012 1:59 AM, Bill wrote: I am almost reticent to share now that I think it holds its weight in this environment too. How likely is it that a result will be superior to a plan? Experience has shown too that the sooner one can identify a problem, the cheaper and easier it is to fix it. The difference between mediocrity and supremacy is attention to detail; and that detail is the essence of what a plan/design provides. You just described the importance of using a design tool, which was why it was so exciting to me to get my hands on an easy to use design tool like Sketchup when it first became available. Make a detailed plan, and execute the plan, and you can win wars and build skyscrapers. Put me down as a believer. I'm struggling to convert the masses. I think it's a great deal easier to become a believer AFTER you've learned your way around SU a bit. Everytime I use SU, it shows me my technique isn't all that good, but that's a work in progress! %-) If it makes you feel any better I was an AutoCAD LT user and installed Sketchup 3 times before I left it on my computer. IIRC it was the first program to be installed on my new computer. It does take a different way of thinking and the more you use it the more you learn. |
Designing a work table
Swingman wrote:
Perfect examples why you will never win a war, or build a skyscraper. :) I have done the equivelent of both by knowing when to think too much and when to act. I know you too well now Karl - and I know that you too have figured this out. But - that is not coming through in your posts. Come on - you've never - or you don't hack a quick fix together to get you through something? I'm going to call bull**** on you on that one. -- -Mike- |
Designing a work table
Bill wrote:
dadiOH wrote: There are times when strict adherence to a plan is necessary but IMO& IME hobbyist woodworking is not among them. Where does designing jigs, for instance, fit in there? That's about the last thing I want to have to do when the planets are aligned and I have the time to actually be running machinery. I would confess, if I ended up in that position, that I hadn't planned well. I don't know where it fits. Jigs are a result of a need, either a onetime or frequent need. For one time use, down and dirty is good enough. For others, I try to build in some versatility. As an example, consider my ex-step father in law... One time he visited he spied my newly made router table. He then set out to design his. He spent five years - FIVE YEARS - doing so. Many, many plan revisions. Highly detailed plans (he was an enginner/draughtsman). His final revision called for it to be put together with mortise and tenon joints. Don't ask me why, I don't know but it presented a problem for him so he made a jig to make them. The jig he made was ONLY good for that one time use...for the lumber sizes he was using. It would have been easy to make it so it could be used in a more universal manner. -- dadiOH ____________________________ dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:32 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 DIYbanter