Agree. Plan is to attach the brackets to a 2x4; sit the 2x4 on the
floor; and then screw the 2x4 to the wall stud every 12" or so. Maybe
a lag screw instead, but again, 5 shelves @100# max, with most of
that being transferred to the floor, does not leave a lot of force
perpendicular to the wall. I plan to do some "hanging around" as a
test. Keeping that load tight against the supporting 2x4 is an
important part of this. That's why I'm only using 14" brackets, and
likely only to use the first 8-10" of that. I want to be able to
place 3 2x4's on a rack, so that's 10.5", so really a 12" bracket
would be fine. I'll look into this. Also, if I'm going to give
myself 4' of clearance underneath, then either there will be only 4
brackets or the spacing between each will be more like 9.5".

On Sep 9, 7:49*pm, Zz Yzx wrote:
On Thu, 8 Sep 2011 16:14:15 -0700 (PDT), kansascats

wrote:
OK.. been toiling with this for years.
What am I missing?

I bet the weak link is the wall anchorage. *Screws pulling out, screws
missing studs, that kinna' stuff.

Jes' sayin'....

-Zz

responding to
http://www.homeownershub.com/woodwor...ck-523473-.htm
compareman1 wrote:

Here is the solution for you if you are looking for the cheapest tools on
line, here you will get best of the tools at reasonable price that you can
easily compare with others

http://www.comparethebuildingmaterials.com/

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 09 Sep 2011 08:14:32 -0500, wrote:

On 9/9/2011 6:13 AM, dadiOH wrote:
Theodore Edward Stosterone wrote:
Mount several sets of 4 in-a-row and walla

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/voila

Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank
you.

I want to barf everytime I see "walla".

Viola!

Closer, Mr. Musician! It's "Voilà!", with Alt+0224 (grave accent)

But I like Viola better. And she happens to be American. But she is
probably to old for you.


--
Gerald Ross

It's easy to be brave from a safe distance.

On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 07:43:08 -0400, Gerald Ross
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 09 Sep 2011 08:14:32 -0500, wrote:

On 9/9/2011 6:13 AM, dadiOH wrote:
Theodore Edward Stosterone wrote:
Mount several sets of 4 in-a-row and walla

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/voila

Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank
you.

I want to barf everytime I see "walla".

Viola!

Closer, Mr. Musician! It's "Voilà!", with Alt+0224 (grave accent)

But I like Viola better. And she happens to be American. But she is
probably to old for you.

You're right. The Irenes, Ednas, and Violas are all too old for me.
That Virginia Pippalini (Pipeline) gal is too aggressive for me.

--
Most powerful is he who has himself in his own power.
-- Seneca

On 9/9/2011 3:13 PM, kansascats wrote:
Exactly. And my guess is the 100# rated bracket probably can hold
120# or better.
....

One thought came overnight...while I'd have no qualms as far as failure
given the loading you're talking of as noted; you might find they will
sag some with time if loaded near rating.

For that reason you might want to consider upping the number either by
filling in more in the same length (altho I'm presuming you were
thinking of only using existing wall studs so that would take more
effort to add) or, alternatively, space more levels at closer vertical
spacing to limit load that way at some (probably minimal?) loss of total
storage (altho you might go w/ 5 instead of 4 levels, say)...

Just a thought and just _might_ also take care of the worrier in the
crowd...

--

On 9/8/2011 7:14 PM, kansascats wrote:
OK.. been toiling with this for years.

The other day, in Lowes, I spot 12" x 14" L-bracket shelf supports
rated at 100 lbs. So I figure 4 of those mounted to a 2x4, mounted to
my shop wall studs and spaced 12" vertically apart or so and that
should be adequate. I ran some calcs based on wood density and a
stack of 12" oak that is 10" wide would average out to less than 100#
per support.

oak 50#/cuft
50 x 8' x 12" x 10" / 4 supports = 83 # / support

What am I missing?

Mount several sets of 4 in-a-row and walla -- instanct lumber rack for
$2 a support ($8 per row)

My first shop had exposed rafters and I made this lumber rack out of
1x6's and 2x4's, which worked well.

http://jbstein.com/Flick/WoodStorage.jpg

My current shop has a finished ceiling, so I built this one, which works
also but I had a bunch of free pipe laying around:

http://jbstein.com/Flick/PipeWoodRack.jpg

This style, which you are contemplating, works well because you can use
the space underneath for tools and stuff.

A year or 2 ago, I built this one:

http://jbstein.com/Flick/LumberCart.jpg
http://jbstein.com/Flick/LumberCart2.jpg

This last one is great. It holds more wood than you can imagine in very
little space. I have it right next to my table saw at 90° so the wood
is all highly visible, highly accessible. It has tons of storage for
all the short stuff that's a PIA to store on wall racks, and all the
long boards, and all your plywood, in one compact space saving place:-)

It's not hard to make, and really doesn't cost much although it should
have steel wheels on it. It's a bear to move fully loaded. This thing
has plans all over the internet if you need them. I used wafer board for
the walls, much cheaper and works fine.

I don't even use the old rack any more. When I built it I thought it
would take up a lot of space, but surprisingly, it doesn't.


--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

"Eric" writes:
"kansascats" wrote in message
The advantage is that very little space is consumed. 1.5" for 2x4,
and the 10, 12, or 14" of the bracket. So it fits snugly against the
wall. I have a 24' x 24' shop, and again, don't often store large
quantities of lumber. I'd probably have a shelf row for oak, one for
maple, maybe one for walnut, and then a couple for the 2x stuff. I'd
like to leave 50" clear underneath for 10 sheets of plywood I bought
on-sale years ago. Yeah -- I know -- store flat -- but that's not
much of an option in a shop my size. Then again, with the money I
save on heating and cooling, I can just go buy new flat wood if I
really need.


================
Those brackets are not worth much. They tend to suddenly let go and
bend/collapse with continuous weight on them. They will not hold
the weights they state for very long. I have had tools and other
heavy items fall right off the shelves using them every 16".

Get some 2x4s and cut a horizontal shelf, fasten on top of a vertical
wall plate 2x4 and miter a 45 degree rib at turned on it's edge. Good
quickie project for your miter saw. Fasten all with some deck screws
and place one about every 16" - 2 feet, depending on your lumber
stiffness, length and how deep you want the horizontal support and
your stud spacing underneath them to support them.

Give a quick sand and prime/paint if you want them to look pretty.


For lumber racks, unistrut can't be beat. Cuts with a hacksaw and
plenty of fittings are available. Three 8' verticals lagged to the
studwall; use steel L's[*] with 1/2" bolts and strut-nuts to add 16" horizontal arms
cut from the unistrut.

scott
[*] such as unistrut p1026 or p1325 or p1290. The 1290 bracket will
bear a heck of a lot more than 100#.

On 9/11/2011 4:55 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
....

For lumber racks, unistrut can't be beat. Cuts with a hacksaw and
plenty of fittings are available. Three 8' verticals lagged to the
studwall; use steel L's[*] with 1/2" bolts and strut-nuts to add 16" horizontal arms
cut from the unistrut.

scott

[*] such as unistrut p1026 or p1325 or p1290. The 1290 bracket will
bear a heck of a lot more than 100#.

Other than cost...the single bracket is about $15/ea...w/o the unistrut
and associated hardware. It's good, but not inexpensive.

In the barn I took a bunch of old angle and some plate and welded up
some gussets to do same thing of scrap on hand. At cost of even used
steel these days, even that would add up quickly if had to buy the
material. Of course, even the lumber route these days ain't exactly
free...

--

Who do you think you are kidding?

The first time you need to put another board on the rack you will use the
end of the brackets, only for a day or so, until...
Next thing you will wake to a huge crash in the middle of the night and all
your nice hardwood will have slid off onto the floor and smashing your mitre
saw as it fell to the floor.

The joints in these brackets are stamped out metal. Without an angle support
for triangulation strength these things are dangerous with weight on them.

I wouldn't use them for any weight bearing stuff. Use a wood do-it-yourself
method as suggested by a few.

Forget the wood to the floor at the wall surface. It doesn't perform any
function in the leverage formula. Your wall studs are strong enough with
some decent screws.


------------
"kansascats" wrote in message
...

Agree. Plan is to attach the brackets to a 2x4; sit the 2x4 on the
floor; and then screw the 2x4 to the wall stud every 12" or so. Maybe
a lag screw instead, but again, 5 shelves @100# max, with most of
that being transferred to the floor, does not leave a lot of force
perpendicular to the wall. I plan to do some "hanging around" as a
test. Keeping that load tight against the supporting 2x4 is an
important part of this. That's why I'm only using 14" brackets, and
likely only to use the first 8-10" of that. I want to be able to
place 3 2x4's on a rack, so that's 10.5", so really a 12" bracket
would be fine. I'll look into this. Also, if I'm going to give
myself 4' of clearance underneath, then either there will be only 4
brackets or the spacing between each will be more like 9.5".

On Sep 9, 7:49 pm, Zz Yzx wrote:
On Thu, 8 Sep 2011 16:14:15 -0700 (PDT), kansascats

wrote:
OK.. been toiling with this for years.
What am I missing?

I bet the weak link is the wall anchorage. Screws pulling out, screws
missing studs, that kinna' stuff.

Jes' sayin'....

-Zz

On 2011-09-09 03:01:50 -0400, "Lew Hodgett" said:

Remember KISS?

You mean Fred Herman and Earl Nightingale's "Keep It Simple, Salesman"?

More on Nightingale he http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Nightingale
More on K.I.S.S. he http://www.nobsbooks.com/pdfs/sales-chapter9.pdf

"Steve" wrote:

I wrote:
Remember KISS?
-------------------------------------
"Steve" wrote:

You mean Fred Herman and Earl Nightingale's "Keep It Simple,
Salesman"?
-----------------------------------------
Actually it was a reference to a PDF file from
WoodSmithShop for a well designed lumber storage rack using plywood as
the base material that gets mounted on the wall.

Lew
..

Another option I'm testing --

-- drill a "properly sized hole" about 2.5" deep into a 2x (angle the
holes just a bit)
-- screw those to the wall studs (24" oc)
-- put 1/2" blackpipe (or 3/4" EMT) that fit snugly into those holes

Earlier someone had a photo of this idea. That was my original plan,
3/4" EMT that is 2.5" deep in the wood and extending 12" out of the
wood, seems to be able to support over 100#

The challenge is drilling the right size hole. Plan to get some
spade bits and grind them to the right size (OD of pipe/EMT)

The risk is the pipe pulls out of the hole when moving lumber
around.

I don't want the brackets themselves to take-up a lot of space. 1/2"
black pipe, or 3/4" EMT is ideal.

The idea is not to be able to store 100s of board feet of material,
but to get the bit I have off the floor and easily viewable and
sortable.

On 9/20/2011 12:31 PM, kansascats wrote:
Another option I'm testing --

-- drill a "properly sized hole" about 2.5" deep into a 2x (angle the
holes just a bit)
-- screw those to the wall studs (24" oc)
-- put 1/2" blackpipe (or 3/4" EMT) that fit snugly into those holes


Personally (and what do I know?), I'm not sure it's worth drilling into
the wall studs. What if you break them? Why not erect something in
front of the wall which rests on the concrete on the floor? One can
still use the black pipe, etc. Just a thought. I saw a picture of a
3-level industrial-strength coat rack that I thought might work.


Earlier someone had a photo of this idea. That was my original plan,
3/4" EMT that is 2.5" deep in the wood and extending 12" out of the
wood, seems to be able to support over 100#

The challenge is drilling the right size hole. Plan to get some
spade bits and grind them to the right size (OD of pipe/EMT)

The risk is the pipe pulls out of the hole when moving lumber
around.

I don't want the brackets themselves to take-up a lot of space. 1/2"
black pipe, or 3/4" EMT is ideal.

The idea is not to be able to store 100s of board feet of material,
but to get the bit I have off the floor and easily viewable and
sortable.

kansascats wrote:
Another option I'm testing --

-- drill a "properly sized hole" about 2.5" deep into a 2x (angle the
holes just a bit)
-- screw those to the wall studs (24" oc)
-- put 1/2" blackpipe (or 3/4" EMT) that fit snugly into those holes

Earlier someone had a photo of this idea. That was my original plan,
3/4" EMT that is 2.5" deep in the wood and extending 12" out of the
wood, seems to be able to support over 100#

The challenge is drilling the right size hole. Plan to get some
spade bits and grind them to the right size (OD of pipe/EMT)

The risk is the pipe pulls out of the hole when moving lumber
around.

I don't want the brackets themselves to take-up a lot of space. 1/2"
black pipe, or 3/4" EMT is ideal.

The idea is not to be able to store 100s of board feet of material,
but to get the bit I have off the floor and easily viewable and
sortable.

Not so sure I'd trust this plan. In order to get a 2.5" deep hole into a
2xAnything, you'd have to drill into the 1 1/2 edge. Start piling any
amount of weight, especially 12" out from the hole, and I'd be quite
concerned for the hole giving out.

--

-Mike-

Bill wrote:
On 9/20/2011 12:31 PM, kansascats wrote:
Another option I'm testing --

-- drill a "properly sized hole" about 2.5" deep into a 2x (angle the
holes just a bit)
-- screw those to the wall studs (24" oc)
-- put 1/2" blackpipe (or 3/4" EMT) that fit snugly into those holes


Personally (and what do I know?), I'm not sure it's worth drilling
into the wall studs. What if you break them? Why not erect something
in front of the wall which rests on the concrete on the floor? One
can still use the black pipe, etc. Just a thought. I saw a picture
of a 3-level industrial-strength coat rack that I thought might work.


I did not interpret his plan to drill into the wall studs Bill. I
understand it to drill into a 2x which will then be secured to the wall
studs. Of the two, drilling into the wall studs would probably be stronger
because there is more wood above and below the hole, where the stresses are
going to be, but I'm not fond of either approach.

--

-Mike-

Jack Stein,

Those are almost exactly what I've been prototyping. I built this
cart:
http://www.scrgeek.com/woodwork/storageSheets.html

I beefed it up some -- used EMT instead of PVC, added some lateral
support, etc. It holds a ton of material, but at that capacity it's
not "mobile". The multipurpose cart you made is probably more
practical. I have 10 sheets of birch/maple ply that I need to
store. I just need to realize that it has to lean up against a wall.

On your pipe rack -- did you face-glue two 2x4s? How did you drill
the proper size hole? Did you secure the pipe into the hole?

On 9/20/11 12:56 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
kansascats wrote:
Another option I'm testing --

-- drill a "properly sized hole" about 2.5" deep into a 2x (angle the
holes just a bit)
-- screw those to the wall studs (24" oc)
-- put 1/2" blackpipe (or 3/4" EMT) that fit snugly into those holes

Earlier someone had a photo of this idea. That was my original plan,
3/4" EMT that is 2.5" deep in the wood and extending 12" out of the
wood, seems to be able to support over 100#

The challenge is drilling the right size hole. Plan to get some
spade bits and grind them to the right size (OD of pipe/EMT)

The risk is the pipe pulls out of the hole when moving lumber
around.

I don't want the brackets themselves to take-up a lot of space. 1/2"
black pipe, or 3/4" EMT is ideal.

The idea is not to be able to store 100s of board feet of material,
but to get the bit I have off the floor and easily viewable and
sortable.

Not so sure I'd trust this plan. In order to get a 2.5" deep hole into a
2xAnything, you'd have to drill into the 1 1/2 edge. Start piling any
amount of weight, especially 12" out from the hole, and I'd be quite
concerned for the hole giving out.

Yep, I would suggest putting in at least a 4x4, and lag bolt them to
your 2x material if you are using wall studs, the two by does not give
enough room for lateral stress if you pull a piece off the end.

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

On 9/20/2011 11:31 AM, kansascats wrote:
....
Earlier someone had a photo of this idea. That was my original plan,
3/4" EMT that is 2.5" deep in the wood and extending 12" out of the
wood, seems to be able to support over 100#

The challenge is drilling the right size hole. Plan to get some
spade bits and grind them to the right size (OD of pipe/EMT)

The risk is the pipe pulls out of the hole when moving lumber
around.

I don't want the brackets themselves to take-up a lot of space. 1/2"
black pipe, or 3/4" EMT is ideal.
....

The OD on those is pretty large for using only 2x stock--I'd suggest
even smaller but as strong or stronger would be solid rod stock.

As for pulling out, just pin them--something as little as drilling a
hole and an 8d or 10d nail thru the side is plenty. Or, of course, the
expedient of a dollop of epoxy or construction adhesive in the hole when
inserting.

Somehow, methinks you're over thinking this considerable...

--

On 9/20/2011 1:02 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:
On 9/20/2011 12:31 PM, kansascats wrote:
Another option I'm testing --

-- drill a "properly sized hole" about 2.5" deep into a 2x (angle the
holes just a bit)
-- screw those to the wall studs (24" oc)
-- put 1/2" blackpipe (or 3/4" EMT) that fit snugly into those holes


Personally (and what do I know?), I'm not sure it's worth drilling
into the wall studs. What if you break them? Why not erect something
in front of the wall which rests on the concrete on the floor? One
can still use the black pipe, etc. Just a thought. I saw a picture
of a 3-level industrial-strength coat rack that I thought might work.


I did not interpret his plan to drill into the wall studs Bill. I
understand it to drill into a 2x which will then be secured to the wall
studs.

Yes Mike, you are correct. I already had the wrong picture in my mind
and didn't read close enough. I'm still undecided whether it might be
better to have an independent structure for wood storage--it would be
more relocatable (for instance).


Of the two, drilling into the wall studs would probably be stronger
because there is more wood above and below the hole, where the stresses are
going to be, but I'm not fond of either approach.

-- would not drill holes in shop studs
-- using a 2x4 or maybe a pair glued together, drill a series of holes
in them; screw this to the wall studs, but also with it resting on the
floor directly
-- the OD of 3/4" EMT is just under 1" (larger than 7/8ths)
-- the OD for 1/2 pipe is 0.84 (via google), so just under 7/8ths
-- would black or galv be better?

On Tue, 20 Sep 2011 12:56:37 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 9/20/2011 11:31 AM, kansascats wrote:
...
Earlier someone had a photo of this idea. That was my original plan,
3/4" EMT that is 2.5" deep in the wood and extending 12" out of the
wood, seems to be able to support over 100#

The challenge is drilling the right size hole. Plan to get some
spade bits and grind them to the right size (OD of pipe/EMT)

The risk is the pipe pulls out of the hole when moving lumber
around.

I don't want the brackets themselves to take-up a lot of space. 1/2"
black pipe, or 3/4" EMT is ideal.
...

The OD on those is pretty large for using only 2x stock--I'd suggest
even smaller but as strong or stronger would be solid rod stock.

As for pulling out, just pin them--something as little as drilling a
hole and an 8d or 10d nail thru the side is plenty. Or, of course, the
expedient of a dollop of epoxy or construction adhesive in the hole when
inserting.

Somehow, methinks you're over thinking this considerable...

Yeah, by the time they get through fartin' around, they could have had
their Sterling rack up and stocked. I think my setup cost me a little
over $100 but it holds well over a ton of wood SAFELY. I slit 2" pvc
pipe and snugged it over the top of each bracket to avoid any plating
transfer or scuffing. http://goo.gl/11AiI

http://diversifycomm.com/wood/shopwall2.jpg bare rack
http://diversifycomm.com/wood/shopwall3.jpg Filled somewhat

--
A sound mind in a sound body is a short but full description
of a happy state in this world.
-- John Locke

NIce, but I need to get a lot more compact then having giant
triangular braces in the way. The 1/2" pipe will take up less then
1". That is the point of this -- to be able to provide a bunch of
tightly spaced brackets such that 10 or fewer boards on each "pile"
can be readily viewed, sorted, etc. Rather than have 4 "shelves" of
2-foot capacity each, I'm aiming for 6 to 9" capacity on each. So
each bracket cannot consume even inches of space. The idea is to get
a little stuff on many brackets vs much stuff on few brackets.

On 9/20/2011 1:33 PM, kansascats wrote:
Jack Stein,

Those are almost exactly what I've been prototyping. I built this
cart:
http://www.scrgeek.com/woodwork/storageSheets.html

I beefed it up some -- used EMT instead of PVC, added some lateral
support, etc. It holds a ton of material, but at that capacity it's
not "mobile". The multipurpose cart you made is probably more
practical.

Yes, the one I build is really great. I show two wheels on each end,
but I put one wheel on each end and two in the middle, like the wood
carts at home depot. It really needs steel wheels though, too much
weight for what I have on it.

On your pipe rack -- did you face-glue two 2x4s? How did you drill
the proper size hole? Did you secure the pipe into the hole?

Sorry, just read you post.

I made this 20 years ago, and I think I glued them together, but that's
not necessary. The picture doesn't show all the screws, but there are
more than 2 screws holding them to the wall. I have them hanging on a
cement block wall. As far as the proper sized hole... Drill holes in
some scrap until you get the right size. Get the pipe first:-) The
holes are 3" deep, through both 2x4's. Angle them up slightly.

The thing is solid as can be, I've had it filled to the brim, no problem.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

On 9/20/2011 12:56 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
kansascats wrote:
Another option I'm testing --

-- drill a "properly sized hole" about 2.5" deep into a 2x (angle the
holes just a bit)
-- screw those to the wall studs (24" oc)
-- put 1/2" blackpipe (or 3/4" EMT) that fit snugly into those holes

Earlier someone had a photo of this idea. That was my original plan,
3/4" EMT that is 2.5" deep in the wood and extending 12" out of the
wood, seems to be able to support over 100#

The challenge is drilling the right size hole. Plan to get some
spade bits and grind them to the right size (OD of pipe/EMT)

The risk is the pipe pulls out of the hole when moving lumber
around.

I don't want the brackets themselves to take-up a lot of space. 1/2"
black pipe, or 3/4" EMT is ideal.

The idea is not to be able to store 100s of board feet of material,
but to get the bit I have off the floor and easily viewable and
sortable.

Not so sure I'd trust this plan. In order to get a 2.5" deep hole into a
2xAnything, you'd have to drill into the 1 1/2 edge. Start piling any
amount of weight, especially 12" out from the hole, and I'd be quite
concerned for the hole giving out.

The plan I showed him is TWO tubafors face glued with a 3" deep hole
drilled for each pipe. (http://jbstein.com/Flick/PipeWoodRack.jpg) The
pipe will not pull out, and while mine is attached to a concrete block
wall, I would think attaching them to studs would work fine.

My plan isn't a plan to me, I build it over 20 years ago and it's still
hanging lumber just as it did on day one. I don't have a clue where I
got the idea for it, it was pre-internet. I built it because I had a
source for free pipe, so it was super cheap, and easy to build. I was
pretty sure it would work when I built it, 20 years later, there is zero
doubt.

This rolling lumber cart is 100 times better though, it does it all in a
little space, but it still takes floor space.

(http://jbstein.com/Flick/LumberCart.jpg)

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

Jack --

thanks.. 1/2' black pipe is about $12 for 10', galv maybe a few
dollars more. I'd think 1/2" pipe 2.75" deep in the wood and
extending 12" out (120" / 8 pieces = 15" per piece) would be very
strong, capable of holding well over what I'm putting on it. I'll
angle them at 5 degrees or so. I don't like the 3" of wasted space
against the wall, but not sure what else to do. I can grind a spade
bit down to make a snug fit for the hole size. I don't want to drill
all the way through as my shop wall is drywall.

Those L-brackets were a cheap and simple idea. But the cost for pipe
and the 2x4s is the same or even less, just a few hours more work.

I have this cart, http://www.scrgeek.com/woodwork/storageSheets.html

which has potential, but I think your cart has better all-around
versatility. I just about built that one, but built mine because I
have about 20 sheets of plywood. But with all that weight, even with
steel wheels, it's not that mobile. I'm going to have to succomb to
the notion that I don't have a good way to store my beloved plywood.

I have even been contemplating a 50" x 98' assembly table with room
below for the plywood, but that's more assembly table than I need,
though I'm thinking to build into the base drawers, storage
compartments, and outlets on all 4 sides for quick power access for
drills, sanders, etc.

On 9/22/11 12:31 AM, Jack wrote:
The plan I showed him is TWO tubafors face glued with a 3" deep hole
drilled for each pipe.
(http://jbstein.com/Flick/PipeWoodRack.jpg) The
pipe will not pull out, and while mine is attached to a concrete block
wall, I would think attaching them to studs would work fine.


That is plenty strong. I made shelves with a similar design and the hold
a lot more weight than you'd think. The weak link is the dowels... use
oak and you're fine.
I drilled the holes at a slight upward angle so the increased weight
would cause a spring-flat scenario (like crowning up joists).

I added set screws in the sides of the 2x4's at the holes, because I'm
anal.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Mike --

I'm thinking to use 1/2" black or galv pipe for the dowels.

On 9/22/11 3:19 PM, kansascats wrote:
Mike --

I'm thinking to use 1/2" black or galv pipe for the dowels.


I was that, after I posted. I doubt you'll have any bend. :-)
However, if it were me, I'd still drill the holes at an slight angle,
maybe just 2-3 degrees, to account for some "moosh" in the pine.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 15:40:02 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 9/22/11 3:19 PM, kansascats wrote:
Mike --

I'm thinking to use 1/2" black or galv pipe for the dowels.


I was that, after I posted. I doubt you'll have any bend. :-)
However, if it were me, I'd still drill the holes at an slight angle,
maybe just 2-3 degrees, to account for some "moosh" in the pine.

I used 1/2" round bar. I slid 1/2 (inside diameter) PVC over the
steel to prevent any discoloration of the lumber.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

Mike --

Agree on the slight angle as you state -- the pine will crush some,
and also a bit of safeguard against slipping off.

On 9/23/11 1:04 AM, kansascats wrote:
Mike --

Agree on the slight angle as you state -- the pine will crush some,
and also a bit of safeguard against slipping off.

I'm not positive, but I don't think galvanized pipe is the same as the
black pipe.

Just thinking out loud... I'm pretty sure 1/2" galvanized pipe bends
fairly easily. I don't remember the black stuff bending like galvanized.
I know we're back to the old "how much weight is going to be on this
thing, but it's worth looking into.

I would check with someone who knows for sure.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 9/23/2011 12:30 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
....

I'm not positive, but I don't think galvanized pipe is the same as the
black pipe.

Just thinking out loud... I'm pretty sure 1/2" galvanized pipe bends
fairly easily. I don't remember the black stuff bending like galvanized.
I know we're back to the old "how much weight is going to be on this
thing, but it's worth looking into.

I would check with someone who knows for sure.
....

They're not the same; galvanized is, well, "galvanized"...

They have same dimensional tolerances and since are both iron, the
mechanical properties are close enough as to be the same.

Any differences will be owing to the particular manufacturer of one vis
a vis the other, not that there's any specification difference between
the two types.

--

On 9/23/11 12:39 PM, dpb wrote:
On 9/23/2011 12:30 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
...

I'm not positive, but I don't think galvanized pipe is the same as the
black pipe.

Just thinking out loud... I'm pretty sure 1/2" galvanized pipe bends
fairly easily. I don't remember the black stuff bending like galvanized.
I know we're back to the old "how much weight is going to be on this
thing, but it's worth looking into.

I would check with someone who knows for sure.
...

They're not the same; galvanized is, well, "galvanized"...

They have same dimensional tolerances and since are both iron, the
mechanical properties are close enough as to be the same.

Any differences will be owing to the particular manufacturer of one vis
a vis the other, not that there's any specification difference between
the two types.


If that is the case, if I were doing it, I'd upgrade to 3/4".


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Please do not discuss your sex habits here.

-----------------
"-MIKE-" wrote in message ...
I added set screws in the sides of the 2x4's at the holes, because I'm
anal.

On 9/22/2011 12:39 PM, kansascats wrote:
Jack --

thanks.. 1/2' black pipe is about $12 for 10', galv maybe a few
dollars more. I'd think 1/2" pipe 2.75" deep in the wood and
extending 12" out (120" / 8 pieces = 15" per piece) would be very
strong, capable of holding well over what I'm putting on it.

You only need 11" out of the wall. A 1x12 is 11 1/4", and you could get
by with less.

I'll angle them at 5 degrees or so.

That's probably too much angle, You don't need to worry about wood
sliding off, but perhaps a length of copper pipe might roll off. Just a
little angle is all you need, if any.

I don't like the 3" of wasted space against the wall, but not sure what
else to do.

3" ain't much, your room's got to be 100's of inches:-)

I can grind a spade bit down to make a snug fit for the hole size.

I used 3/4" pipe, and it is like 1 1/16" OD, I probably drilled a 1
1/8th inch hole. It really doesn't need to be a super tight fit, the
pipe should slide in the hole easily. Just guessing but a 1 1/16" hole
would probably have been too tight, and I don't think I have any 1 3/32"
bits, and I know I didn't grind down a bit.

I don't want to drill all the way through as my shop wall is drywall.

I'd probably go all the way through even on a drywall wall, the pipe
will stay put, there is no horizontal force on the pipe. Your idea would
likely work just as well though.

Those L-brackets were a cheap and simple idea. But the cost for pipe
and the 2x4s is the same or even less, just a few hours more work.

Especially if you have a good pipe cutter:-)

I have this cart, http://www.scrgeek.com/woodwork/storageSheets.html
which has potential, but I think your cart has better all-around
versatility. I just about built that one, but built mine because I
have about 20 sheets of plywood. But with all that weight, even with
steel wheels, it's not that mobile. I'm going to have to succomb to
the notion that I don't have a good way to store my beloved plywood.

My cart could store 20 sheets of 1/4" plywood:-) What I like about my
cart is it stores a LOT of wood, particularly stuff under 4 feet, which
was always a problem with my wall rack. It stores more 8-10 footers
than my wall rack, and stores more plywood than I store. I know I could
roll it with steel wheels, not easily but it would roll.

I have even been contemplating a 50" x 98' assembly table with room
below for the plywood, but that's more assembly table than I need,
though I'm thinking to build into the base drawers, storage
compartments, and outlets on all 4 sides for quick power access for
drills, sanders, etc.

That idea doesn't interest me for ply because storing it flat takes up a
ton of room, and getting a full sheet out, or in for that matter, would
be problematic. You would need a LOT of clear space to get a sheet in
or out. Also, you would be storing it one sheet on top of the other, so
getting out a sheet not on top would be a pain, not to mention storing
and getting to partial sheets.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

Jack wrote in :


That idea doesn't interest me for ply because storing it flat takes up a
ton of room, and getting a full sheet out, or in for that matter, would
be problematic. You would need a LOT of clear space to get a sheet in
or out. Also, you would be storing it one sheet on top of the other, so
getting out a sheet not on top would be a pain, not to mention storing
and getting to partial sheets.


I've tried the flat storage, and it's a pain for all the reasons mentioned.
Plus, I tend to bang the corners on the floor when moving the plywood.

Puckdropper

Jack & Puck

I admire your thinking. Jack, I think maybe your cart has a larger
base than mine. Mine is 24" x 96", so if I retro it to have the A-
frame in the middle, I'll probably only see 6" on a side, so that's
only an 8 sheet capacity. I really did not want to go bigger than
24", thus the cart I chose, but I can really see your point about cut-
offs, etc. My shop space is about 24' square with 2 single 9' doors
on one end. I have my TS, jointer, BS, and DC off in the NE
quadrant. With those dust producing tools concentrated in that area,
my 1.5HP DC using 6" pipe does a fine job of chips and very light dust
collection (thanks to Bill Pentz!). If I need to cut larger panels, I
can open the garage door which is on the outfeed side of the TS. A
real drag on those 90% humidity days or when it's -20F. Ah well.

Jack what is the width of the base of your cart's A-frame? What's the
width of the top of the A-frame? About what angle do you suppose it
is? 10 deg. off or vertical?

I'm pretty set on the 1/2" pipe. That's minimal wasted space, and 12"
of pipe could probably hold 200# or better. An attempted chin-up will
be the proof.

On 9/27/2011 12:09 AM, kansascats wrote:

Jack what is the width of the base of your cart's A-frame?

The base is 32".

What's the width of the top of the A-frame?

The top is an 8' 1x6, or, 5 1/2" wide.

About what angle do you suppose it
is? 10 deg. off or vertical?

My recollection is 5°. The width of my bottom for ply storage is
around 10" so it will hold 20 full sheets of 1/2" ply. You could make
it a bit wider to suit. I rarely have full sheets of ply, mostly
partial sheets of varying sizes.

BTW, my shop is also a 2 car garage, around 24x24' and the cart
surprised me at how little room it actually takes up. I have mine
sitting 90° to my table saw/jointer and to the door I bring in my
lumber, so it's easy to get stuff in an out. This thing really exceeded
my expectations, it's a great rack.

I'm pretty set on the 1/2" pipe. That's minimal wasted space, and 12"
of pipe could probably hold 200# or better. An attempted chin-up will
be the proof.

If you build this cart, you won't need the wall lumber rack unless you
store a lot of lumber, or have a really busy shop. I use my wall rack
to store some 10 and 12' stuff, and really short stuff sideways on top
of the 12' stuff. I also have some cove base, copper pipe and other
assorted non-lumber stuff on the wall rack, but basically, it's no
longer needed for it's original purpose.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

I like to wander into the homestores and scan over their lumber. When
I see some clean 2x material I'll pickup 6 to 10 of them. I probably
have 20-30 8-footers in the shop now. Awhile back I noticed some $20
birch/maple 3/4" ply and scooped up 10 sheets. I'd also like to
start looking around from some hardwood at the local mills.