Maybe the USanians have standardized on Roberts head sizes, since the patent
timed out?...LOL

I don't think the old screws are going to like the chamge of technique
though.

wrote in message
...
Driver bits are pretty standard these days. A new drill will usually work,
too. ;-)

On Sun, 23 May 2010 17:00:47 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

On 5/23/2010 1:24 PM, Josepi wrote:
Do you think the batteries will be good enough when you resurrect those
old
drills to get those screws out again?

If they aren't I'm sure that Makita will be happy to sell him a
replacement set, or he can get the old ones rebuilt.

On Sun, 23 May 2010 17:20:54 -0500, the renowned
" wrote:

On Sun, 23 May 2010 15:53:03 -0500, -MIKE- wrote:

On 5/23/10 3:03 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
adding bricks to their cart, imo.

Dragging an air hose beats swinging a hammer, though.

Who swings a hammer? :-)
A gas framing nailer is faster, lighter, and more convenient than any of
those.

Never used one. I generally don't move much once set up, so there isn't much
dragging anyway. The big advantage of an air nailer for me is no smiles in
awkward-to-nail places. My thumbs feel better after, too. ;-)

FWIW, last deck I did, I was much faster laying down the decking with my
22 oz Estwing and galvanized spirals than with a drill and screws.

Sure, but I've seen even ring-shank nails pop. Stainless screws are the only
way to fly.

I can definitely see where I could be faster with one of those screw
self-feeders with the long extension and the depth stop driver. But I'm
one of those "one tap to set, 2-3 swings to drive it home" hammer guys,
so I can get a pretty fast rhythm going.

Saving time isn't high on my list. ;-) Saving aggravation later, is.

I see the Cadillac way of making a deck...

- Autofeed stand up Screw gun
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/ima...4654692&sr=8-1

- collated 316 (!) stainless steel deck screw$$$
http://www.stainless-fasteners.com/c...ews_strips.htm

-Bluwood (tm) treated wood
http://www.lowes.ca/products/bluwood.aspx





Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

On 2010-05-23, RogerN wrote:

"Ignoramus32683" wrote in message
...
On 2010-05-23, RogerN wrote:
Just curious, why can't you build a deck with a battery powered drill? I
twisted lag bolts in two with my Dewalt 18V XRP but I can't remember if
it
was with the drill or the impact (the impact is bad about breaking screws
if
you don't stop on time!).

Roger, my answer to you (and others) was that batteries do not last
when the job is to just drive a screw after screw.

Apparently, others' experience may be different, and, if so, I will
retract my comment about cordless drills.

i

OK, that makes sense, maybe that's why I bought 2 drills, 6 batteries and 4
chargers. :-) Too bad my energy level doesn't keep up!

Actually I saw DeWalt had a lot of cordless tools available for their 18V
XPR and I bought various sets to have all my cordless tools battery and
charger compatible, the 2nd xrp drill came in a kit with 2 batteries, a
charger, and an impact driver.

Dewalt 18XRP is the drill that I have, I love it and use it a lot. I
have two batteries for it, but for continuous use I get out my electric
drill.

i

Pete C. wrote:
Ignoramus16466 wrote:

On 2010-05-23, Doug Miller wrote:
SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project
requires a new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is
showing its age a bit, or to be more precise, the batteries are
showing their age -- building a deck, I'll definitely drain the
batteries in much less time than it takes to recharge them.

So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills
(e.g. saw one at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to
wondering... almost every cordless drill has a multi-position
clutch to prevent overtightening, or sinking screws too deep. Does
anybody make an air drill with such a clutch?

You cannot build a deck with a battery powered drill.

Well, you can, but a battery powered impact driver works a lot better.

Agreed. Air tools have their place but building a deck is not necessarily
one of them. I wouldn't use my air drill to build a deck.

--

-Mike-

Ignoramus16466 wrote:
On 2010-05-23, Doug Miller wrote:
SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project
requires a new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is
showing its age a bit, or to be more precise, the batteries are
showing their age -- building a deck, I'll definitely drain the
batteries in much less time than it takes to recharge them.

So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills
(e.g. saw one at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to
wondering... almost every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch
to prevent overtightening, or sinking screws too deep. Does anybody
make an air drill with such a clutch?

You cannot build a deck with a battery powered drill.

Sure you can. Why do you say that?



Air drills do not have the torque. (in my experience).

Agreed - wrong tool for the job.



I do have some compressed air screwdrivers, however. (all name brands,
used)

If it was up to me, I would use a decent variable speed electric
drill, but I would love to sell you a pneumatic screwdriver (straight
or gun shaped).


VSR drill (corded) is certainly a great choice. A decent cordless with 2
batteries is another good choice.

--

-Mike-

Bill Noble wrote:


3. pneumatic tools don't get hot when they run, that's a real plus if
you are using them a lot

No kidding - just hold the tool so that your hand is near the exhaust port -
a quick way to realize how cold expanding compressed air can really get...

--

-Mike-

Ignoramus32683 wrote:


Dewalt 18XRP is the drill that I have, I love it and use it a lot. I
have two batteries for it, but for continuous use I get out my
electric drill.


For continuous work, I keep one of my batteries in the charger, while I'm
using the other one. I've never had my cordless fail me for the type of
work we've been speaking of.

--

-Mike-

Josepi wrote:
Most pro framers, I have seen do not use compressed air, they swing a
hammer. Try carrying a nailgun up into a framed roof rafter assembly
while hanging on to the last truss member you hammered in to get at
the next piece. A hammer and puch full of nails makes an easier climb
and the nials are removable for a few eeks until they rust or set
into the wood.


It's a mix. The hammer still has its place but to say that most pro framers
aren't using nailers is, well... bull. You need to look more closely.

--

-Mike-

Mike Marlow wrote:

Josepi wrote:
Most pro framers, I have seen do not use compressed air, they swing a
hammer. Try carrying a nailgun up into a framed roof rafter assembly
while hanging on to the last truss member you hammered in to get at
the next piece. A hammer and puch full of nails makes an easier climb
and the nials are removable for a few eeks until they rust or set
into the wood.


It's a mix. The hammer still has its place but to say that most pro framers
aren't using nailers is, well... bull. You need to look more closely.


No kidding. You heard almost nothing but air nailers around here,
before the housing bubble burst. Both conventional homes, and at all
the mobile home factories before they shut down.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

It definitely varies from crew to crew.

Many of the newbies are given nailers and the cordless ones are getting
popular. I framed my house with a nailer and barbed nails. that was a
mistake when changes need to be made though. Other jobs I have been in,
almost all the seasoned framers used hammers as the climbing was a pain with
a nailer and the hammer was faster, overall. For sheeting a nailer was used
almost exclusively but not for structural lumber.



"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...
It's a mix. The hammer still has its place but to say that most pro framers
aren't using nailers is, well... bull. You need to look more closely.



Josepi wrote:
Most pro framers, I have seen do not use compressed air, they swing a
hammer. Try carrying a nailgun up into a framed roof rafter assembly
while hanging on to the last truss member you hammered in to get at
the next piece. A hammer and puch full of nails makes an easier climb
and the nials are removable for a few eeks until they rust or set
into the wood.

On 5/23/10 5:20 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
Sure, but I've seen even ring-shank nails pop. Stainless screws are the only
way to fly.


Not arguing here, but in my experience nails popping out is generally
due to under-engineering in the manners of: movement caused by too much
space between joists, and nails too short.

I know there are other causes, but I've seen nails pop due to those
causes.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 5/23/10 6:09 PM, Josepi wrote:
Most pro framers, I have seen do not use compressed air, they swing a
hammer. Try carrying a nailgun up into a framed roof rafter assembly while
hanging on to the last truss member you hammered in to get at the next
piece. A hammer and puch full of nails makes an easier climb and the nials
are removable for a few eeks until they rust or set into the wood.


I'm not buying anything you wrote in this post.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 5/23/10 9:10 PM, Josepi wrote:
It definitely varies from crew to crew.

Many of the newbies are given nailers and the cordless ones are getting
popular. I framed my house with a nailer and barbed nails. that was a
mistake when changes need to be made though. Other jobs I have been in,
almost all the seasoned framers used hammers as the climbing was a pain with
a nailer and the hammer was faster, overall. For sheeting a nailer was used
almost exclusively but not for structural lumber.


I'm sorry, but there's no way on earth a hammer is faster than a nail gun.
I've used both, I'm good at both. Not buying it.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Sun, 23 May 2010 18:28:16 -0500, Ignoramus32683
wrote:

On 2010-05-23, RogerN wrote:

"Ignoramus32683" wrote in message
...
On 2010-05-23, RogerN wrote:
Just curious, why can't you build a deck with a battery powered drill? I
twisted lag bolts in two with my Dewalt 18V XRP but I can't remember if
it
was with the drill or the impact (the impact is bad about breaking screws
if
you don't stop on time!).

Roger, my answer to you (and others) was that batteries do not last
when the job is to just drive a screw after screw.

Apparently, others' experience may be different, and, if so, I will
retract my comment about cordless drills.

i

OK, that makes sense, maybe that's why I bought 2 drills, 6 batteries and 4
chargers. :-) Too bad my energy level doesn't keep up!

Actually I saw DeWalt had a lot of cordless tools available for their 18V
XPR and I bought various sets to have all my cordless tools battery and
charger compatible, the 2nd xrp drill came in a kit with 2 batteries, a
charger, and an impact driver.

Dewalt 18XRP is the drill that I have, I love it and use it a lot. I
have two batteries for it, but for continuous use I get out my electric
drill.

I have two 18V XRP drills, one a "compact" model (which isn't compact). I
found one for less than $100 (less than the price of two batteries) on the
get-it-outta-here table at HomeDespot. I also have the 6-1/2" circular saw,
so six batteries. I don't use the drills often, though. I would much rather
use the 12V Bosch and the Impactor. I'd break them out if I built a deck,
though. ;-)

On Sun, 23 May 2010 22:04:10 -0500, -MIKE- wrote:

On 5/23/10 5:20 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
Sure, but I've seen even ring-shank nails pop. Stainless screws are the only
way to fly.


Not arguing here, but in my experience nails popping out is generally
due to under-engineering in the manners of: movement caused by too much
space between joists, and nails too short.

Maybe, but mine were 16" OC. The nails? For me, screws are easier in the long
run.

I know there are other causes, but I've seen nails pop due to those
causes.

Screws don't wreck the wood coming out, either.

On Sun, 23 May 2010 19:09:50 -0400, "Josepi" wrote:

Most pro framers, I have seen do not use compressed air, they swing a
hammer. Try carrying a nailgun up into a framed roof rafter assembly while
hanging on to the last truss member you hammered in to get at the next
piece. A hammer and puch full of nails makes an easier climb and the nials
are removable for a few eeks until they rust or set into the wood.

They sure do around here. I think one house of six, built in the last year in
my neighborhood, had a hammer on the property. They aren't too bothered
scrambling around on the rafters.

On Sun, 23 May 2010 22:10:14 -0400, "Josepi" wrote:

It definitely varies from crew to crew.

Many of the newbies are given nailers and the cordless ones are getting
popular. I framed my house with a nailer and barbed nails. that was a
mistake when changes need to be made though. Other jobs I have been in,
almost all the seasoned framers used hammers as the climbing was a pain with
a nailer and the hammer was faster, overall. For sheeting a nailer was used
almost exclusively but not for structural lumber.

Not a chance in hell that a hammer is faster. Watch them do shingles some
time. Wait, does *anyone* hammer down shingles anymore?

On Sun, 23 May 2010 19:12:12 -0400, "Josepi" wrote:

Maybe the USanians have standardized on Roberts head sizes, since the patent
timed out?...LOL

I'm certainly not a pro, but I use Phillips, Robertson, and TORX/Star screws,
in about the same numbers (prefer TORX, if I can find them). Bits for all of
them are pretty common, even in the junk stores.

I don't think the old screws are going to like the chamge of technique
though.

You don't change the technique, you change the DIRECTION. ;-)

On Sun, 23 May 2010 10:47:22 -0600, Dave Balderstone
wrote:

In article , Gunner Asch
wrote:


I agree on all of Iggys points about tools, though some of the newest
cordless drills come pretty close to being suitable.

I drove over 2000 screws with a cheap off-brand cordless 14.4 v drill
when I built my deck.


Good on you lad!

I managed to drive 10 with a brand new one 4 weeks ago.

Gunner

--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

On Sun, 23 May 2010 04:38:50 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

It will barely drive a #10 x 3" screw without predrilling,

Predrilling


--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

On May 24, 4:22*am, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 23 May 2010 04:38:50 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

It will barely drive a #10 x 3" screw without predrilling,

Predrilling

Yep. I use a lot of oak for framing temporary sheds like in the
photos. If I don't predrill the lag screws break off when I remove
them later. I salvaged the oak beams from pallets for kitchen counter
sheets and use them for rafters. The wood is almost as hard as 1980's
Chinese cast iron.

jsw

Doug Miller wrote:

SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project requires a
new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is showing its age a bit,
or to be more precise, the batteries are showing their age -- building a deck,
I'll definitely drain the batteries in much less time than it takes to
recharge them.

So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills (e.g. saw one
at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to wondering... almost
every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch to prevent overtightening, or
sinking screws too deep. Does anybody make an air drill with such a clutch?

Despite what others have been saying I have recently bought an air
impact driver. Of course as with any tool you get the quality you pay
for. Although as far as I know there are few really cheep quality air
tools yet.

For me the advantages are clear

1) there are no batteries that will die if not used for a months and any
way in about 3 years.
2) Smaller than any battery impact driver.
3) The air hose is far more flexible and longer than any corded driver.
4) The service life is much longer than any electric powered drill.
5) Over haul when eventually needed is it is easy and fast

--
replace spamblock with my family name to e-mail me
Pics at http://www.meekings.net/diving/index.shtml
and http://www.meekings.net/photo-groups/nui/index.shtml

As I stated this varies from crew to crew. Sheeting, follow up, is
typically, always done, with nailguns by the junior apprentice.

Some crews, here, will not allow powered nailguns on the job due to safety
concerns.

No Building Code or Electrical Inspectors, here, will will enter the
buiding if one is in operation. There are many reasons.

I have used both. Guns are faster for me but then I can't drive a 3.1/2"
ardox nail in with one crack like the framers I know...LOL


"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
I'm sorry, but there's no way on earth a hammer is faster than a nail gun.
I've used both, I'm good at both. Not buying it.


--

-MIKE-

Not many frame with shingles.

Shingle warranties are usually voided with use of power nailers. Most
roofers here, use them anyway.


wrote in message
...
Not a chance in hell that a hammer is faster. Watch them do shingles some
time. Wait, does *anyone* hammer down shingles anymore?



On Sun, 23 May 2010 22:10:14 -0400, "Josepi" wrote:

It definitely varies from crew to crew.

Many of the newbies are given nailers and the cordless ones are getting
popular. I framed my house with a nailer and barbed nails. that was a
mistake when changes need to be made though. Other jobs I have been in,
almost all the seasoned framers used hammers as the climbing was a pain
with
a nailer and the hammer was faster, overall. For sheeting a nailer was used
almost exclusively but not for structural lumber.

Josepi wrote:

It definitely varies from crew to crew.

Many of the newbies are given nailers and the cordless ones are
getting popular. I framed my house with a nailer and barbed nails.
that was a mistake when changes need to be made though. Other jobs I
have been in, almost all the seasoned framers used hammers as the
climbing was a pain with a nailer and the hammer was faster, overall.
For sheeting a nailer was used almost exclusively but not for
structural lumber.


I have to respectfully disagree with the ease and speed of use, as well as
what I see seasoned framers actually doing. I see plenty of structural
work - perhaps even most of the structural work being done with nailers.

--

-Mike-

On May 24, 6:45*am, (Jerome Meekings)
wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project requires a
new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is showing its age a bit,
or to be more precise, the batteries are showing their age -- building a deck,
I'll definitely drain the batteries in much less time than it takes to
recharge them.

So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills (e.g. saw one
at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to wondering... almost
every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch to prevent overtightening, or
sinking screws too deep. Does anybody make an air drill with such a clutch?

Despite what others have been saying I have recently bought an air
impact driver. Of course as with any tool you get the quality you pay
for. Although as far as I know there are few really cheep quality air
tools yet.

For me the advantages are clear

1) there are no batteries that will die if not used for a months and any
way in about 3 years.
2) Smaller than any battery impact driver.

Nonsense. Have you looked at a Bosch Impactor? Any smaller and it
would be useless.

3) The air hose is far more flexible and longer than any corded driver.

Again, nonsense. How long is a string?

4) The service life is much longer than any electric powered drill.

More crap.

5) Over haul when eventually needed is it is easy and fast

Only because it needs it.

In article , " wrote:
On May 24, 6:45=A0am, (Jerome Meekings)


1) there are no batteries that will die if not used for a months and any
way in about 3 years.

My Bosch drill is at least 7 years old, still on the original batteries. They
no longer hold a charge as long as they did when they were new, but they're
not dead yet either by any means. It's just in the last year that they've
reached the point where I can deplete one battery in less time than it takes
to recharge the spare.
[...]
3) The air hose is far more flexible and longer than any corded driver.

Again, nonsense. How long is a string?

Agreed, that *is* nonsense. Electrical cords are *far* more flexible than any
air hose I've ever seen. As for length... Jerome, have you ever heard of an
extension cord?

You can buy a special chuck with a release for screws, but
if it were me, I would go buy myself a impact driver. I have
a Makita and it will drive a LOT of screws completely through
a decking board.

A corded drill is still the best tool for continuous operations.

If you "really" want a clutched corded drill, these folks
sell one:

http://www.metabo.us/Product-catalog...a9ca94a.0.html

http://www.contractorstoolsupply.com...10-p-1907.html


Doug Miller wrote:


Yeah, that's Plan B -- I have a good one already (Makita 1/2" VSR corded), but
it doesn't have a clutch...

On Sun, 23 May 2010 21:11:15 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Bill Noble wrote:


3. pneumatic tools don't get hot when they run, that's a real plus if
you are using them a lot

No kidding - just hold the tool so that your hand is near the exhaust port -
a quick way to realize how cold expanding compressed air can really get...

The low torque is great when drilling with an pneumatic in thin metal,
at least my wrists think so when it binds.

Mark

RonB wrote:
Well, you can, but a battery powered impact driver works a lot better.

Yes, I just bought an impact driver and that would be my tool of choice.
It takes a lot less juice to pound in a screw than with traditional
drivers, so the batteries should last a good bit longer. No need to
pre-drill either as far as power goes, but I probably still would to
minimize splitting.

Good point I missed in my previous post because I was using a drill
and driver for the the deck I just finished. You have to be careful
not to bury the screw, but my impact driver is actually easier to
control than either my corded or battery drill motors, and is less
likely to twist your wrist as you get fatigued. It runs quite a while
on a charge too.

I haven't used mine yet other than to "test" it out and what really
amazed me is I used it on some old, large slotted screws that I had
laying around. I tossed most slotted screws I had because power drivers
don't work well with them, but these were fairly large, so I kept them.
The damned impact driver drove them in with no problem, no cam out
like always happens with slotted screws...

I also have an air screw driver that will twist your arm off if you let
it, but it is too slow for deck use. It was my favorite screw driver for
years, but with the nice small and compact cordless thing-ees of today,
the air driver lives in the bottom drawer...

--
Jack
Those who trade liberty for security have neither.
http://jbstein.com

On 5/24/10 6:45 AM, Jerome Meekings wrote:

For me the advantages are clear


At least you added, "for me." :-)

1) there are no batteries that will die if not used for a months and any
way in about 3 years.

Plus, that compressor is a lot more portable than those little battery
packs.


2) Smaller than any battery impact driver.

Not true. The new ones are pretty small.


3) The air hose is far more flexible and longer than any corded driver.

Really? Do you use yours when it's full of air? I have a 100'
extension cord that is waaaaay easier to use than a 100' air hose under
pressure. Of course, we're talking extension cords/hoses, which are
needed for both.

4) The service life is much longer than any electric powered drill.

Again, really? I have a 20 year old hammer drill that's still cranking
it out. It was even half submerged in water overnight.


5) Over haul when eventually needed is it is easy and fast


I'll give you that. Some rings and seals and you're good as new.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 5/24/10 7:12 AM, Josepi wrote:
As I stated this varies from crew to crew. Sheeting, follow up, is
typically, always done, with nailguns by the junior apprentice.

Some crews, here, will not allow powered nailguns on the job due to safety
concerns.


I guess I can't say what goes on in the UK, but if there were stats on
tool injuries, I'm guessing there would be more broken thumbs from
hammers than busted kneecaps from air nailers misfiring.


No Building Code or Electrical Inspectors, here, will will enter the
buiding if one is in operation. There are many reasons.


Again, I'd love to see these reasons. Those things are very powerful at
the tip. But the most damage you'll get from one being fired through
the air is a bit of a scratch, maybe a drop or two of blood. I suppose
you'd hurt your eye... but then again, I've been hit by more nails
ricocheting from bad hammer hits than anything else.

You can't shoot a guy full of holes, from across the room, like you see
in the movies.


I have used both. Guns are faster for me but then I can't drive a 3.1/2"
ardox nail in with one crack like the framers I know...LOL


Guns are faster for anyone.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 5/24/10 8:59 AM, wrote:
On May 24, 6:45 am, (Jerome Meekings)
wrote:
5) Over haul when eventually needed is it is easy and fast

Only because it needs it.

D'oh! Wish I'd thought of that. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On May 22, 11:26*pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project requires a
new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is showing its age a bit,
or to be more precise, the batteries are showing their age -- building a deck,
I'll definitely drain the batteries in much less time than it takes to
recharge them.

So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills (e.g. saw one
at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to wondering... almost
every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch to prevent overtightening, or
sinking screws too deep. Does anybody make an air drill with such a clutch?

We are getting away from what the original question is. I have not
seen an air drill with a clutch only because they wouldn't be of much
use. Air tools are specific in use not like electric which tries to
cover many uses. So hence why they don't have a clutch because there
are air impact drivers and air screwdrivers. I do agree that if air
powered was better that you would see many more contractors using them
(except nailers).

The question you have to ask yourself, is "Am I going to use it after
the job is done?". If you don't have much other use for it beyond the
scope of the deck, I wouldn't go that route. Then think about
compressor capacity. Is your compressor capable of the scfm needed for
the drill? Since it would be in use for longer durations, you need a
compressor that is at least a 30 gallon or higher and able to deliver
at least 8-9 scfm at 90 psi. Then if your compressor is smaller, it
constantly has to play catch up and then it is running nonstop. It
would be about the same as if you left your table saw running the
entire time you were building the deck. Not very good on the electric
bill.

I myself would go the cordless impact driver way since you said it is
about 140 square feet. You said that your drill is about 7 years old.
I would look at a drill/impact driver kit and keep your old one for
the times you could use 2 drills. I doubt that you would find an
impact driver kit that you could use the batteries on your old drill.

I have an air drill, It is nice for drilling wood because of the low
torque and high rpm, but I would not try to drive screws with it.

Allen

In article , allen476 wrote:
On May 22, 11:26=A0pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project requires a
new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is showing its age a bit,
or to be more precise, the batteries are showing their age -- building a deck,
I'll definitely drain the batteries in much less time than it takes to
recharge them.

So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills (e.g. saw one
at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to wondering... almost
every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch to prevent overtightening, or
sinking screws too deep. Does anybody make an air drill with such a clutch?

We are getting away from what the original question is. I have not
seen an air drill with a clutch only because they wouldn't be of much
use. Air tools are specific in use not like electric which tries to
cover many uses. So hence why they don't have a clutch because there
are air impact drivers and air screwdrivers. I do agree that if air
powered was better that you would see many more contractors using them
(except nailers).

The question you have to ask yourself, is "Am I going to use it after
the job is done?". If you don't have much other use for it beyond the
scope of the deck, I wouldn't go that route. Then think about
compressor capacity. Is your compressor capable of the scfm needed for
the drill? Since it would be in use for longer durations, you need a
compressor that is at least a 30 gallon or higher and able to deliver
at least 8-9 scfm at 90 psi. Then if your compressor is smaller, it
constantly has to play catch up and then it is running nonstop. It
would be about the same as if you left your table saw running the
entire time you were building the deck. Not very good on the electric
bill.

I myself would go the cordless impact driver way since you said it is
about 140 square feet. You said that your drill is about 7 years old.
I would look at a drill/impact driver kit and keep your old one for
the times you could use 2 drills. I doubt that you would find an
impact driver kit that you could use the batteries on your old drill.

I have an air drill, It is nice for drilling wood because of the low
torque and high rpm, but I would not try to drive screws with it.

Allen

Thanks for the thoughtful response, Allen. I believe that you and a few others
have talked me into looking at a new cordless drill instead...

wrote:

On May 24, 6:45 am, (Jerome Meekings)
wrote: Doug Miller wrote: SWMBO wants me to
build a small deck. Of course, every new project requires a new tool,
right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is showing its age a bit, or
to be more precise, the batteries are showing their age -- building a
deck, I'll definitely drain the batteries in much less time than it
takes to recharge them. So I'm looking at other options,
including compressed air drills (e.g. saw one at the Borg this evening
for $45 or so). But I got to wondering... almost every cordless drill
has a multi-position clutch to prevent overtightening, or sinking
screws too deep. Does anybody make an air drill with such a clutch?
Despite what others have been saying I have recently bought an air
impact driver. Of course as with any tool you get the quality you pay
for. Although as far as I know there are few really cheep quality air
tools yet. For me the advantages are clear 1) there are no
batteries that will die if not used for a months and any way in about 3
years. 2) Smaller than any battery impact driver.

Nonsense. Have you looked at a Bosch Impactor? Any smaller and it would
be useless.

Of course it it small however it is also low powered. Size for power air
wins every time.


3) The air hose is far more flexible and longer than any corded driver.

Again, nonsense. How long is a string?


nonsense? Not at all.

cables for a corded driver are almost never over 3M however since all my
air tools have a QR on the tool. Any length (in my case) up to 50M
without junctions is usable.

4) The service life is much longer than any electric powered drill.

More crap.

In your opinion.

If electric impact drivers were so good then tyre shops and garages
would use them.

With sanders exactly the same is true though they need a high airflow,
so few non professional workshops have the compressor power to use them


5) Over haul when eventually needed is it is easy and fast

Only because it needs it.

Which part of the word "eventually" did you miss?

by the time an air impact can use an overhaul it will have outlasted 2
or 3 equivelent electric impact drivers


-- replace spamblock with my family name to e-mail me Pics at
http://www.meekings.net/diving/index.shtml and
http://www.meekings.net/photo-groups/nui/index.shtml

allen476 wrote:

On May 22, 11:26 pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project
requires a new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is
showing its age a bit, or to be more precise, the batteries are showing
their age -- building a deck, I'll definitely drain the batteries in
much less time than it takes to recharge them.

So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills (e.g.
saw one at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to
wondering... almost every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch to
prevent overtightening, or sinking screws too deep. Does anybody make an
air drill with such a clutch?

We are getting away from what the original question is. I have not
seen an air drill with a clutch only because they wouldn't be of much
use. Air tools are specific in use not like electric which tries to
cover many uses. So hence why they don't have a clutch because there
are air impact drivers and air screwdrivers.

There are also air impact screwdrivers.
and there are air Clutch Screwdrivers
http://www.airtekltd.com/gison_9.htm

I do agree that if air
powered was better that you would see many more contractors using them
(except nailers).


I have an air drill, It is nice for drilling wood because of the low
torque and high rpm, but I would not try to drive screws with it.

Allen


--
replace spamblock with my family name to e-mail me
Pics at http://www.meekings.net/diving/index.shtml
and http://www.meekings.net/photo-groups/nui/index.shtml

On May 24, 12:48*pm, (Jerome Meekings)
wrote:
wrote:
On May 24, 6:45 am, (Jerome Meekings)
wrote: Doug Miller wrote: SWMBO wants me to
build a small deck. Of course, every new project requires a new tool,
right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is showing its age a bit, or
to be more precise, the batteries are showing their age -- building a
deck, I'll definitely drain the batteries in much less time than it
takes to recharge them. So I'm looking at other options,
including compressed air drills (e.g. saw one at the Borg this evening
for $45 or so). But I got to wondering... almost every cordless drill
has a multi-position clutch to prevent overtightening, or sinking
screws too deep. Does anybody make an air drill with such a clutch?
Despite what others have been saying I have recently bought an air
impact driver. Of course as with any tool you get the quality you pay
for. Although as far as I know there are few really cheep quality air
tools yet. For me the advantages are clear 1) there are no
batteries that will die if not used for a months and any way in about 3
years. 2) Smaller than any battery impact driver.

Nonsense. *Have you looked at a Bosch Impactor? *Any smaller and it would
be useless.

Of course it it small however it is also low powered. Size for power air
wins every time.



3) The air hose is far more flexible and longer than any corded driver.

On Mon, 24 May 2010 16:32:14 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , allen476 wrote:
On May 22, 11:26=A0pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project requires a
new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is showing its age a bit,
or to be more precise, the batteries are showing their age -- building a deck,
I'll definitely drain the batteries in much less time than it takes to
recharge them.

So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills (e.g. saw one
at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to wondering... almost
every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch to prevent overtightening, or
sinking screws too deep. Does anybody make an air drill with such a clutch?

We are getting away from what the original question is. I have not
seen an air drill with a clutch only because they wouldn't be of much
use. Air tools are specific in use not like electric which tries to
cover many uses. So hence why they don't have a clutch because there
are air impact drivers and air screwdrivers. I do agree that if air
powered was better that you would see many more contractors using them
(except nailers).

The question you have to ask yourself, is "Am I going to use it after
the job is done?". If you don't have much other use for it beyond the
scope of the deck, I wouldn't go that route. Then think about
compressor capacity. Is your compressor capable of the scfm needed for
the drill? Since it would be in use for longer durations, you need a
compressor that is at least a 30 gallon or higher and able to deliver
at least 8-9 scfm at 90 psi. Then if your compressor is smaller, it
constantly has to play catch up and then it is running nonstop. It
would be about the same as if you left your table saw running the
entire time you were building the deck. Not very good on the electric
bill.

I myself would go the cordless impact driver way since you said it is
about 140 square feet. You said that your drill is about 7 years old.
I would look at a drill/impact driver kit and keep your old one for
the times you could use 2 drills. I doubt that you would find an
impact driver kit that you could use the batteries on your old drill.

I have an air drill, It is nice for drilling wood because of the low
torque and high rpm, but I would not try to drive screws with it.

Allen

Thanks for the thoughtful response, Allen. I believe that you and a few others
have talked me into looking at a new cordless drill instead...


Doug,
depending on location I happen to have some new in box metabo cordless
drill drivers and electric screw guns. 15.6V for 175.00 18V for200.00
and electric screw gun 125.00 plus shipping. this is about half price
for these tools. I found several at a good deal and am passing along
the savings to fellow woodworkers. They are NOT hot! leave a message
here if you are interested or e-mail me at fcpreston at nc dot rr dot
com. I do not sell tools for a living.... :-]

skeez

On Mon, 24 May 2010 14:34:43 -0400, skeez
wrote:

On Mon, 24 May 2010 16:32:14 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , allen476 wrote:
On May 22, 11:26=A0pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project requires a
new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is showing its age a bit,
or to be more precise, the batteries are showing their age -- building a deck,
I'll definitely drain the batteries in much less time than it takes to
recharge them.

So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills (e.g. saw one
at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to wondering... almost
every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch to prevent overtightening, or
sinking screws too deep. Does anybody make an air drill with such a clutch?

We are getting away from what the original question is. I have not
seen an air drill with a clutch only because they wouldn't be of much
use. Air tools are specific in use not like electric which tries to
cover many uses. So hence why they don't have a clutch because there
are air impact drivers and air screwdrivers. I do agree that if air
powered was better that you would see many more contractors using them
(except nailers).

The question you have to ask yourself, is "Am I going to use it after
the job is done?". If you don't have much other use for it beyond the
scope of the deck, I wouldn't go that route. Then think about
compressor capacity. Is your compressor capable of the scfm needed for
the drill? Since it would be in use for longer durations, you need a
compressor that is at least a 30 gallon or higher and able to deliver
at least 8-9 scfm at 90 psi. Then if your compressor is smaller, it
constantly has to play catch up and then it is running nonstop. It
would be about the same as if you left your table saw running the
entire time you were building the deck. Not very good on the electric
bill.

I myself would go the cordless impact driver way since you said it is
about 140 square feet. You said that your drill is about 7 years old.
I would look at a drill/impact driver kit and keep your old one for
the times you could use 2 drills. I doubt that you would find an
impact driver kit that you could use the batteries on your old drill.

I have an air drill, It is nice for drilling wood because of the low
torque and high rpm, but I would not try to drive screws with it.

Allen

Thanks for the thoughtful response, Allen. I believe that you and a few others
have talked me into looking at a new cordless drill instead...


Doug,
depending on location I happen to have some new in box metabo cordless
drill drivers and electric screw guns. 15.6V for 175.00 18V for200.00
and electric screw gun 125.00 plus shipping. this is about half price
for these tools. I found several at a good deal and am passing along
the savings to fellow woodworkers. They are NOT hot! leave a message
here if you are interested or e-mail me at fcpreston at nc dot rr dot
com. I do not sell tools for a living.... :-]

skeez

PS I can e-mail pics and specs. just ask.

skeez