"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

wrote in message

Possibly so, but whether you want to admit it or not, he also offers
hope and that's pretty powerful. And maybe, just maybe, he'll fulfill
some of that hope. All those running against him were offering was
same old, same old bull**** without promise of anything new or
different.

He's done nothing different so far. Secret meeting with coal execs,
cronies in the White House, and on and on.
Wait, he did something different. He planted a vegetable garden.


That was the wife ...

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 21:07:54 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:

He's done nothing different so far. Secret meeting with coal execs,
cronies
in the White House, and on and on.
Wait, he did something different. He planted a vegetable garden.

Ok, but you've got to admit, in the political spectrum, especially as
president, those things are a mandatory job requirement for survival.
Even in our penny ante Canadian political environment, things like
that are part and parcel of the job. Not saying it's right, just that
it's the way it is.


IOW, same old, same old ...

On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 19:45:11 -0800, "LDosser"
wrote:

existing superpower, I wonder how well it would eventually fare if the
rest of the world was arrayed against it.

The rest of the world wouldn't care.

Tradewise most countries would rebel. And even if forced to agree to
commerce and despite worrying about the same thing happening to them,
there would still be a lot of underground resistance and withholding
of compliancy.

Militarily, most countries couldn't do very much when it comes to
resistance. But even if military world domination was accomplished,
regional US governors with troops to maintain the status quo would
spread the US military extremely thin. It's just not a very realistic
scenario for the USA to survive comfortably. That's the way I see it
with my limited knowledge.

Yeah, yeah, I know. That should be extremely limited knowledge or
maybe even complete lack of knowledge.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message

Sadly, that may be so, but don't hammer the opposing party for doing
exactly what you do. Our political system is in serious need of
overhaul, but it will never happen.

It will eventually. It happened in Rome courtesy of the Visigoths.
Happened in Byzantium courtesy of the Turks.


I guess never is too strong of a word. Perhaps "not in our lifetime" would
be better. Our grandchildren should learn to speak Mandarin

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"J. Clarke" wrote in message

Sadly, that may be so, but don't hammer the opposing party for doing
exactly what you do. Our political system is in serious need of
overhaul, but it will never happen.

It will eventually. It happened in Rome courtesy of the Visigoths.
Happened in Byzantium courtesy of the Turks.


I guess never is too strong of a word. Perhaps "not in our lifetime" would
be better. Our grandchildren should learn to speak Mandarin



Our Prime Minister has done exactly that. Is he setting an example for the
nation? .....hmmmm...

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 19:45:11 -0800, "LDosser"
wrote:

existing superpower, I wonder how well it would eventually fare if the
rest of the world was arrayed against it.

The rest of the world wouldn't care.

Tradewise most countries would rebel. And even if forced to agree to
commerce and despite worrying about the same thing happening to them,
there would still be a lot of underground resistance and withholding
of compliancy.

Militarily, most countries couldn't do very much when it comes to
resistance. But even if military world domination was accomplished,
regional US governors with troops to maintain the status quo would
spread the US military extremely thin. It's just not a very realistic
scenario for the USA to survive comfortably. That's the way I see it
with my limited knowledge.


Take a look at the scenarios proffered by IPCC, there's some humdingers
there.

"diggerop" toobusy@themoment wrote in message
. au...
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"J. Clarke" wrote in message

Sadly, that may be so, but don't hammer the opposing party for doing
exactly what you do. Our political system is in serious need of
overhaul, but it will never happen.

It will eventually. It happened in Rome courtesy of the Visigoths.
Happened in Byzantium courtesy of the Turks.


I guess never is too strong of a word. Perhaps "not in our lifetime"
would be better. Our grandchildren should learn to speak Mandarin



Our Prime Minister has done exactly that. Is he setting an example for the
nation? .....hmmmm...


I thought he did that Before he was elected. OT**2, I see that someone threw
a shoe at Howard last week.

"Leon" asked::

Google "anthony sowell" or go straight to Cleveland Plain Dealer for
details of this sexual predator and his trail of bodies.

Lew

"LDosser" wrote in message
...
"diggerop" toobusy@themoment wrote in message
. au...
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"J. Clarke" wrote in message

Sadly, that may be so, but don't hammer the opposing party for doing
exactly what you do. Our political system is in serious need of
overhaul, but it will never happen.

It will eventually. It happened in Rome courtesy of the Visigoths.
Happened in Byzantium courtesy of the Turks.


I guess never is too strong of a word. Perhaps "not in our lifetime"
would be better. Our grandchildren should learn to speak Mandarin



Our Prime Minister has done exactly that. Is he setting an example for
the nation? .....hmmmm...


I thought he did that Before he was elected.

Of course. I somehow doubt he'd have spare time to learn it as PM : )


OT**2, I see that someone threw a shoe at Howard last week.

At Cambridge University. I enjoyed his retort, reported as ""It was a
pathetic throw, he would never be on my team."

diggerop

Lew Hodgett said:

...
The shooting rampage raises many questions, starting with "WHY".

I've been reticent to join this fray until the smoke cleared.
But that truly is THE question of the day.

Why did they miss all of the classic warning signs, instead choosing
to plow ahead with plans that this guy obviously had issues with?

I'm not in the least defending the act, only the ignorance of his
superiors and co-workers who ignored or dismissed fairly blatant
behavior that would be clear to any 1st year psychology student.

Having dealt with a few over the years, I'm fairly convinced that
those who enter the fields of psychology/psychiatry did so due to
their own internal strife. Most grow and learn to deal with conflict,
this dude obviously didn't.


Greg G.

J. Clarke wrote:

I wish Obama well, but I think he's going to go down in history as
another Jimmy Carter--a decent man without a clue.

I heard Lawrence J. Peter (the discoverer of "The Peter Principle") say: "I
have been studying governments, man and boy, for over forty years. I have
yet to determine whether we are being led by well-meaning fools or by really
intelligent people who are just putting us on."

wrote:
On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 08:10:22 -0800, evodawg
wrote:

Think it already has. Did we not all see a year ago the sheep
following the Messiah to the voting booths. I also remember some
fainting by just being in his presence. I have zero confidence in
the direction of this country.

Despite your insulting rhetoric, there's a huge difference between
people hoping and people turning into sheep as though hypnotized.
Your "Messiah" as you choose to call him offered and does still offer
hope. Sheep as you call them are people without the knowledge to
realize that they're not going down the right path.

Should your Messiah end up bringing your country out of dark chapter
into a profitable world, what will you say?

Of course you'd say that it would have happened anyway. Your arrogance
just wouldn't allow for any other conclusion. Sounds like you're the
sheep to me.

"Hope" is not a strategy; "Change" is not a tactic.

Both are similar to the matron's advice to the young bride regarding her
wedding night: "Just lie back and think of England."

wrote:
On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 17:14:05 -0800, "LDosser"
wrote:

Hmmmm? Nice attempt to blow smoke but it just doesn't fly when you
consider all the other countries around the world that *have* taken
that path and done quite well. Take Canada

We just might ...

Yup, but it would have to happen very subtly. All Canadian born
citizens have considered that possibility at one time or another and
I'm sure there are a number of catalysts (water, oil, etc) to cause
exactly that to happen. However, despite the US being the world's only
existing superpower, I wonder how well it would eventually fare if the
rest of the world was arrayed against it.

Quite well. The United States Coast Guard is larger, in ships and manpower,
that all of the rest of the world's navies. Combined.

I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed. But I do say no more than
ten to twenty million killed, tops. Uh, depending on the breaks.

wrote:
On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 21:07:54 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:

He's done nothing different so far. Secret meeting with coal execs,
cronies in the White House, and on and on.
Wait, he did something different. He planted a vegetable garden.

Ok, but you've got to admit, in the political spectrum, especially as
president, those things are a mandatory job requirement for survival.
Even in our penny ante Canadian political environment, things like
that are part and parcel of the job. Not saying it's right, just that
it's the way it is.

Nah, they're optional. I think the last president to have a vegetable garden
on the White House grounds was FDR.

Greg G. wrote:
Lew Hodgett said:

...
The shooting rampage raises many questions, starting with "WHY".

I've been reticent to join this fray until the smoke cleared.
But that truly is THE question of the day.


Yep, but should it be?

Carl Jung postulated that humans are evolutionarily compelled to ask (and
discover) the "why" of something. When confronted with an effect, we MUST
find out the "cause." It's in our genes!

That makes sense. If you don't want to get hit by another rock, you'd best
find the caveman who threw the first one! Those who don't care whether
they've been hit by a rock die off rather quickly.

Unfortunately, this compulsion sometimes generates silliness. In our quest
to answer "why," bizarre constructs are often promoted as the "one true
cause." Examples include untold hours of speculation in UFOs, JFK
assassination conspiracy theories, global warming, the pyramids built by
space aliens, and so on.

The trick is to discriminate between effects that can lead to provident
causes (contraction of the space-time continuum at near-light velocities)
and those that lead to merely useless speculation (Major Hassan's rampage).

In the latter case, it's simply better to deal with the effect (kill the
****er, his family, his dog, and everybody he ever knew, verily, unto the
third generation) and move on.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
wrote:
On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 17:14:05 -0800, "LDosser"
wrote:

Hmmmm? Nice attempt to blow smoke but it just doesn't fly when you
consider all the other countries around the world that *have* taken
that path and done quite well. Take Canada

We just might ...

Yup, but it would have to happen very subtly. All Canadian born
citizens have considered that possibility at one time or another and
I'm sure there are a number of catalysts (water, oil, etc) to cause
exactly that to happen. However, despite the US being the world's only
existing superpower, I wonder how well it would eventually fare if the
rest of the world was arrayed against it.

Quite well. The United States Coast Guard is larger, in ships and
manpower, that all of the rest of the world's navies. Combined.

I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed. But I do say no more than
ten to twenty million killed, tops. Uh, depending on the breaks.



IMO, the big takeover to come will not be a military action, rather an
economic one. What if a dictator in China suddenly declared "no exports to
the US". They could take over Wal Mart and control a big chunk of the US
economy.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
rest of the world was arrayed against it.

Quite well. The United States Coast Guard is larger, in ships and
manpower, that all of the rest of the world's navies. Combined.


You think so?

The US coast guard, the smallest of the five US armed services, lists itself
at around 47,000 strong.

The Chinese navy alone has more personnel than that (250,000 and growing.)
It has twice as many submarines as the US navy and predicted by some to
outstrip the size of the US navy in total by 2015.
Robert Gates has expressed concerns that the US is in danger of being
outstripped by China as a naval force in the Pacific in the near future.

In 1803, Napoleon supposedly said "Let China Sleep, for when the Dragon
awakes, she will shake the world." I believe we are going to find out he
was right.

diggerop

HeyBub said:

Greg G. wrote:
Lew Hodgett said:
...
The shooting rampage raises many questions, starting with "WHY".

I've been reticent to join this fray until the smoke cleared.
But that truly is THE question of the day.


Yep, but should it be?

Carl Jung postulated that humans are evolutionarily compelled to ask (and
discover) the "why" of something. When confronted with an effect, we MUST
find out the "cause." It's in our genes!

You conveniently snipped the relevant portion. My question was why did
they miss clear cut signs of trouble, not why did he do it. I'll not
argue with Jung, who certainly makes far more sense than Freud, as
relates to machinery and such - finding out the why is a requisite for
future troubleshooting and avoidance purposes.

As for humans, I gave up figuring them out years ago and don't care
why they choose to do the f'ed up things they do anymore. I do make it
a point to avoid them when I see signs of danger, and lock and load
when I can't. ;-)

In the latter case, it's simply better to deal with the effect (kill the
****er, his family, his dog, and everybody he ever knew, verily, unto the
third generation) and move on.

Umm... a bit reactionary, after all, he knew quite a few enlisted men.
I certainly don't want to be blamed for the actions of my friends and
relatives. It's bad enough to have taken the brunt of punishment for
the local politicians and their idiot kids, much less some extremist
nut job. (Yeah, I know, an attempt at sensationalist humor...)


Greg G.

Mark & Juanita wrote:

We're already seeing that with Pelosi-care -- $250k
fine and 5 years in jail for not purchasing the government mandated health
insurance or paying the 2.5% of income fine.


Isn't it ironic, a US citizen put in jail but Illegal Aliens allowed to
flood this country and no jail time. The sooner this rank amateur is gone
the better off this country will be.

--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/

LDosser wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 17:35:15 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:


Yeah, he offers hope if we will only surrender our remaining liberties
to
him. He will then take care of all of us. His version of "hope" has
never
turned out well for those who have taken that path. His version of
solutions is to offer more of the same government intervention and
interference and meddling that got our country into the financial mess it
now faces.

Hmmmm? Nice attempt to blow smoke but it just doesn't fly when you
consider all the other countries around the world that *have* taken
that path and done quite well. Take Canada

We just might ...
How many Hockey Teams have we taken?
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/

HeyBub wrote:

In the latter case, it's simply better to deal with the effect (kill the
****er, his family, his dog, and everybody he ever knew, verily, unto the
third generation) and move on.

Yeah, innocent people and dogs get killed all the time, at least this
way, there is a method to the madness.

--
Jack
People who never get carried away should be.
http://jbstein.com

diggerop wrote:

In 1803, Napoleon supposedly said "Let China Sleep, for when the Dragon
awakes, she will shake the world." I believe we are going to find out
he was right.

When Obama and his socialist buddies are done, it won't be a shake,
barely a nudge....

--
Jack
Got Change: The Individual ===== The Collective!
http://jbstein.com

"Greg G." wrote in message
news
Lew Hodgett said:

...
The shooting rampage raises many questions, starting with "WHY".

I've been reticent to join this fray until the smoke cleared.
But that truly is THE question of the day.

Why did they miss all of the classic warning signs, instead choosing
to plow ahead with plans that this guy obviously had issues with?

From what I understand, none of the warning signs were missed. They gave
him bad reviews and moved him around. They did not miss the signs, they
simply had to be PC. PC does not allow you to assume or treat differently
a person that produces substandard results. You have to treat all people
as you might treat your children. You can no longer treat fellow workers as
adults, you might hurt thier feelings.



I'm not in the least defending the act, only the ignorance of his
superiors and co-workers who ignored or dismissed fairly blatant
behavior that would be clear to any 1st year psychology student.

See above. You have to have proof that they will kill. Until they kill you
don't have proof. You are not allowed to take precautions, that might hurt
someones feelings.


Having dealt with a few over the years, I'm fairly convinced that
those who enter the fields of psychology/psychiatry did so due to
their own internal strife. Most grow and learn to deal with conflict,
this dude obviously didn't.

You are probably absolutely correct , but, you should not say that because
some one might get their feelings hurt. ;~)

HeyBub wrote:
wrote:
On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 17:14:05 -0800, "LDosser"
wrote:

Hmmmm? Nice attempt to blow smoke but it just doesn't fly when you
consider all the other countries around the world that *have* taken
that path and done quite well. Take Canada

We just might ...

Yup, but it would have to happen very subtly. All Canadian born
citizens have considered that possibility at one time or another and
I'm sure there are a number of catalysts (water, oil, etc) to cause
exactly that to happen. However, despite the US being the world's
only existing superpower, I wonder how well it would eventually fare
if the rest of the world was arrayed against it.

Quite well. The United States Coast Guard is larger, in ships and
manpower, that all of the rest of the world's navies. Combined.

The kind of number that idiot civilians like to throw around. Coast Guard
ships have neither the speed nor the armament to deal with purpose-made
warships. They can't run away, they can't close the range, and their
weapons are outranged, so all they can do is sit there and take hits. And
that's the ones that _have_ weapons. More than half of that number is buoy
tenders and tugs and other classes that were never intended to get in a
fight.

The Coast Guard is superb at what they do, but what they do is not fight
wars.

I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed. But I do say no more
than ten to twenty million killed, tops. Uh, depending on the breaks.

Well, now, let's see, after those navies have wiped out New York, Los
Angeles, Chicago, Houston, Philadelphia and Phoenix they're at your 20
million, and they still have over 1400 warheads to use up, that they can put
_anywhere_ in the US.

Oh, and between them the British, German, and French navies have the Coast
Guard nicely outnumbered, and that's just counting British, German, and
French combatant warships against _everything_ that the Coast Guard has
that's longer than 65 feet.

Really, you're coming across as a clueless jingoist here.

"Greg G." wrote in message
...

snip

You conveniently snipped the relevant portion. My question was why did
they miss clear cut signs of trouble, not why did he do it. I'll not
argue with Jung, who certainly makes far more sense than Freud, as
relates to machinery and such - finding out the why is a requisite for
future troubleshooting and avoidance purposes.

I still believe the signs were simply passed over. Why? Some people still
believe that because no WMD's were found in Iraq, after giving them 6 months
to dismantle, ship out, ot hide them, they simply did not exist.

This same type of reasoning has disabled the use of profiling. You see a
person acting a bit unusual you ignore it because acting unusual is not a
crime and if you say they need help because they are acting unusual they
accuse you of profiling. I am sorry to say that profiling is the only true
way to help prevent things from getting out of hand. But the use of
profiling has been disabled by a swift and "Broad" brush.




As for humans, I gave up figuring them out years ago and don't care
why they choose to do the f'ed up things they do anymore. I do make it
a point to avoid them when I see signs of danger, and lock and load
when I can't. ;-)

Ahh a profiller, a smart one.





In the latter case, it's simply better to deal with the effect (kill the
****er, his family, his dog, and everybody he ever knew, verily, unto the
third generation) and move on.

Your really don't have to do that althought it seems the best way at times.
You simply deliver equal to the crime justice, quickly and with out fan
fare.

Was it because his neighbors referred to him as "number 9" ???

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33766545...shington_post/

Greg G. wrote:

You conveniently snipped the relevant portion. My question was why did
they miss clear cut signs of trouble, not why did he do it. I'll not
argue with Jung, who certainly makes far more sense than Freud, as
relates to machinery and such - finding out the why is a requisite for
future troubleshooting and avoidance purposes.

His betters did not miss the signs. The AP is reporting today that
interviews with several of Hassan's fellow officers and superiors declined
to raise his unfitness due to fears of Muslim and Muslim-apologist
recrimination. In other words, it wasn't politically correct.


In the latter case, it's simply better to deal with the effect (kill
the ****er, his family, his dog, and everybody he ever knew, verily,
unto the third generation) and move on.

Umm... a bit reactionary, after all, he knew quite a few enlisted men.
I certainly don't want to be blamed for the actions of my friends and
relatives. It's bad enough to have taken the brunt of punishment for
the local politicians and their idiot kids, much less some extremist
nut job. (Yeah, I know, an attempt at sensationalist humor...)


It's called cordon sanitiare. Or fire break. Take no chances.

On Nov 7, 6:31*pm, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 14:25:42 -0500, the infamous
scrawled the following:

Should your Messiah end up bringing your country out of dark chapter
into a profitable world, what will you say?

I'd likely say "It probably wasn't him who did it." *We cannot spend
our way out of a bloody economic hole, foo.

Yes we can. (Sorry, couldn't resist) Speaking as an economist, the
only way out is to increase aggregate demand and there's only three
things that can do that: increase exports, increase private investment
in capital goods, or increase government spending. The alternative to
government spending is to pray that Chinese demand increases enough so
they start importing from the rest of us. Private spending on
investment goods ain't gonna happen until things are profitable again.

Government spending increases is how we got out of the 1930s
depression. Economies remained stagnant throughout the 1930s until
government spending was massively increased starting with Germany from
1934-1938 (autobahns, public works and infrastructure, rearmament),
Canada and the UK did did it from 1939-45, US did in 1941-45.

Luigi

HeyBub said:

Greg G. wrote:

You conveniently snipped the relevant portion. My question was why did
they miss clear cut signs of trouble, not why did he do it. I'll not
argue with Jung, who certainly makes far more sense than Freud, as
relates to machinery and such - finding out the why is a requisite for
future troubleshooting and avoidance purposes.

His betters did not miss the signs. The AP is reporting today that
interviews with several of Hassan's fellow officers and superiors declined
to raise his unfitness due to fears of Muslim and Muslim-apologist
recrimination. In other words, it wasn't politically correct.

I read that earlier today. He sounds like a very conflicted individual
that was somewhat ostracized by American society - guilty as hell, but
conflicted. Yet incidences like these are not restricted to any given
region or religion, and each perpetrator reasons his own justification
for such acts. Overcompensating by ignoring warning signs is callow,
however, and this should have been caught. We're new to this, and will
eventually catch on. It takes time; humans are notoriously slow to
change and adapt...

In the latter case, it's simply better to deal with the effect (kill
the ****er, his family, his dog, and everybody he ever knew, verily,
unto the third generation) and move on.

Umm... a bit reactionary, after all, he knew quite a few enlisted men.
I certainly don't want to be blamed for the actions of my friends and
relatives. It's bad enough to have taken the brunt of punishment for
the local politicians and their idiot kids, much less some extremist
nut job. (Yeah, I know, an attempt at sensationalist humor...)


It's called cordon sanitiare. Or fire break. Take no chances.

McCarthy would be proud. ;-)
History records much reactionary behavior - Japanese Americans and
Jewish Europeans during WWII, etc. Surely we have grown beyond that
mindset - regardless of how profitable or emotionally self-serving it
is to vilify those who are not just like "us." Hell, we have produced
quite a few mass-murdering gunman right here at home, and I don't
believe there is a need to recite them all here.

I fear is that this incident is going to further promote a blanket
anti-Muslim sentiment, and therefore anti-American sentiment in
response, that has become so prolific in the TV media since 9-11.
Extremists represent a minority of Muslims, just as Christian
extremists constitute a minority within their religion. Call me a
Pollyanna, but I refuse to paint every Muslim with the same broad
strokes. Most are loving, peaceful, people who want the same things in
life everyone does. But as with most ideologies, there are some who
agitate and seek prominent stature through inflammatory hate speech
and behavior; and some people, being acutely authoritarian in nature,
are swept right along... Hate is an easy sell when mired in misery -
which much of the ME has been for a thousand years.

And before anyone retorts, No, I'm not a Muslim.


Greg G.

Leon said:

"Greg G." wrote in message
.. .

snip

You conveniently snipped the relevant portion. My question was why did
they miss clear cut signs of trouble, not why did he do it. I'll not
argue with Jung, who certainly makes far more sense than Freud, as
relates to machinery and such - finding out the why is a requisite for
future troubleshooting and avoidance purposes.

I still believe the signs were simply passed over. Why? Some people still
believe that because no WMD's were found in Iraq, after giving them 6 months
to dismantle, ship out, ot hide them, they simply did not exist.

Sorry, but I still don't believe it. Saddam was our best buddy while
fighting Iran, but when "certain interests" desired unfettered access
to oil reserves, he became our pariah even though having absolutely
nothing to do with 9-11. Iraq was not a hotbed of extremist activity
because he ruled with an iron fist and killed them lest they gain a
foothold. We upset the balance of power in Iraq by dismantling both
him and his military. A murdering asshole, yes - 9-11 and a threat to
the US, no.

The US has a nasty habit of cozing up to malicious dictators around
the world as long as it suits us. The PNAC had well documented and
long standing plans to war with Iraq, and this was simply the impetus
they needed to do so. They botched it with insufficient troops and an
exceedingly simplistic view of the region. The locals and extremists
aren't stupid and saw this for what it was - yet another invading
imperialist force. Moderates fled while the crazies moved in to fill
the perceived power vacuum.


This same type of reasoning has disabled the use of profiling. You see a
person acting a bit unusual you ignore it because acting unusual is not a
crime and if you say they need help because they are acting unusual they
accuse you of profiling. I am sorry to say that profiling is the only true
way to help prevent things from getting out of hand. But the use of
profiling has been disabled by a swift and "Broad" brush.

Non sequitur. But yes, the lack of profiling is a bit retarded.
Gray headed old ladies from Santa Barbara are unlikely terrorists, yet
woe be upon them if they have a metal clip on their bra...


As for humans, I gave up figuring them out years ago and don't care
why they choose to do the f'ed up things they do anymore. I do make it
a point to avoid them when I see signs of danger, and lock and load
when I can't. ;-)

Ahh a profiller, a smart one.

Bitter experience learned from exposure to crazed lawyers and crooked
politicians. I've traveled the compassionate road and it continues to
bite me in the ass.


In the latter case, it's simply better to deal with the effect (kill the
****er, his family, his dog, and everybody he ever knew, verily, unto the
third generation) and move on.

Your really don't have to do that althought it seems the best way at times.
You simply deliver equal to the crime justice, quickly and with out fan
fare.

Please note that this is not my quote, but HeyBub's. I would prefer
not to have that statement attributed to me, thanks. ;-)
But it is unfortunate that the civilian cop didn't aim a bit more
carefully - if he survives it will cost taxpayers plenty and be yet
another protracted dog and pony show in the media.



Greg G.

Jack Stein said:

HeyBub wrote:

In the latter case, it's simply better to deal with the effect (kill the
****er, his family, his dog, and everybody he ever knew, verily, unto the
third generation) and move on.

Yeah, innocent people and dogs get killed all the time, at least this
way, there is a method to the madness.

Surely you jest, kind sir... I'd prefer to be a bit more accurate in
targeting people for extermination.


Greg G.

Leon said:

"Greg G." wrote in message
news
Lew Hodgett said:

...
The shooting rampage raises many questions, starting with "WHY".

I've been reticent to join this fray until the smoke cleared.
But that truly is THE question of the day.

Why did they miss all of the classic warning signs, instead choosing
to plow ahead with plans that this guy obviously had issues with?

From what I understand, none of the warning signs were missed. They gave
him bad reviews and moved him around. They did not miss the signs, they
simply had to be PC. PC does not allow you to assume or treat differently
a person that produces substandard results. You have to treat all people
as you might treat your children. You can no longer treat fellow workers as
adults, you might hurt thier feelings.

****, they will Baker Act you in a heartbeat around here. You just
have to scare the right people, or find the right people who have
something to hide at your expense. In my ignorant youth I told some
Kelly Bundy type she was a diamond in the rough and ended up in jail
for arson, so anything is possible in this place - but I wasn't a
Muslim...


I'm not in the least defending the act, only the ignorance of his
superiors and co-workers who ignored or dismissed fairly blatant
behavior that would be clear to any 1st year psychology student.

See above. You have to have proof that they will kill. Until they kill you
don't have proof. You are not allowed to take precautions, that might hurt
someones feelings.

There is a good chance that some kind of intervention, a candid
conversation or a friend, could have stopped this. Based on what I've
read, I don't think the guy set out to commit this crime - it was the
pathology of rejection, fear and loneliness that set him off. There
are plenty of sick, desperate people in the world.

Having dealt with a few over the years, I'm fairly convinced that
those who enter the fields of psychology/psychiatry did so due to
their own internal strife. Most grow and learn to deal with conflict,
this dude obviously didn't.

You are probably absolutely correct , but, you should not say that because
some one might get their feelings hurt. ;~)

Oh, shucks.


Greg G.

Tim Daneliuk said:

Luigi Zanasi wrote:

Government spending increases is how we got out of the 1930s
depression. Economies remained stagnant throughout the 1930s until
government spending was massively increased starting with Germany from
1934-1938 (autobahns, public works and infrastructure, rearmament),
Canada and the UK did did it from 1939-45, US did in 1941-45.

Government spending is how the 1930s Depression was lengthened beyond
its natural lifecycle.

Oh, please. This is a long discounted canard.

Economics is called the "Dismal Science" for a reason - economists never
allow reality to intrude on their cute littler theories (as witnessed above).

No fan of economists here, but our current situation was caused by the
wholesale export of jobs and factories, thieving bankers, K-street,
financial con-men and rocketing energy costs. War profiteers and
energy monopolies coddled by the government haven't helped either.



Greg G.

Greg G. wrote:
Jack Stein said:

HeyBub wrote:

In the latter case, it's simply better to deal with the effect (kill the
****er, his family, his dog, and everybody he ever knew, verily, unto the
third generation) and move on.

Yeah, innocent people and dogs get killed all the time, at least this
way, there is a method to the madness.

Surely you jest, kind sir... I'd prefer to be a bit more accurate in
targeting people for extermination.

Article III, Section 3 of the Constitution of the United States:

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War
against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and
Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony
of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but
no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture
except during the Life of the Person attainted."

You're welcome to read my copy at

http://www.iedu.com/Documents/Constitution.html

and if you feel a need to change that provision, it even tells how in
Article V.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

"Greg G." wrote in message
...
snip

I fear is that this incident is going to further promote a blanket
anti-Muslim sentiment, and therefore anti-American sentiment in
response, that has become so prolific in the TV media since 9-11.
Extremists represent a minority of Muslims, just as Christian
extremists constitute a minority within their religion. Call me a
Pollyanna, but I refuse to paint every Muslim with the same broad
strokes. Most are loving, peaceful, people who want the same things in
life everyone does. But as with most ideologies, there are some who
agitate and seek prominent stature through inflammatory hate speech
and behavior; and some people, being acutely authoritarian in nature,
are swept right along... Hate is an easy sell when mired in misery -
which much of the ME has been for a thousand years.

And before anyone retorts, No, I'm not a Muslim.


Greg G.

Well said, Greg.

As I alluded to to in an earlier thread, I lived and worked in the world's
largest Muslim nation, Indonesia, some years back. During my time there, I
was made warmly welcome by all that I came across.
The contrast with my own culture was dramatic. Total strangers in both the
cities and villages, recognising I was not Indonesian, would stop me in the
street and engage me in conversation, often in very poor English, or in my
even poorer Bahasa Indonesia. Every single one of them had a smile on their
face and wanted to make a point of making me feel welcome in their country.
I must confess, I found it a little unnerving at the beginning. ( I come
from stern Protestant stock, - racist, intolerant and highly suspicious of
strangers of any ilk.) I was also invited into the homes of total
strangers. Would not have happened where I grew up.
It was explained to me that it is an important part of both their culture
and religion to welcome and assist others. To do so is seen as a very good
thing. Sadly, I could not say that same universal friendliness and tolerance
would have been reciprocated in my own country. (Then or now.)

Were there some radicals who didn't want strangers like me in their country
and advocated violence as a means of achieving that? Yes. A small minority.
Were there white anglo-saxon protestants in my own country advocating the
same thing? Yes. Again, a small minority. (Around that period, there was one
group going around setting fire to Asian restaurants and trying to stir up
civil unrest on the basis of race. They were caught and jailed.) Would it be
reasonable to label the rest of Australians as being of similar ilk? Of
course not.
Nor would we wish to paint Christians worldwide with the same brush based on
the Catholics and Protestants of Northern Ireland, whose main occupation in
life until recent times, seemed to involve slaughtering each other, based on
religious denomination.

My experiences above are of course, based on one brief period in one Muslim
dominated country. Others may be dramatically different. It did, however,
give me a perspective that I would not have otherwise had and destroyed a
few of my own pre-conceived ideas along the way.

Hopefully, my eyes were opened a little more and just maybe, it may have
made me a slightly better and more tolerant person.

diggerop

On Nov 8, 11:02*am, Jack Stein wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
In the latter case, it's simply better to deal with the effect (kill the
****er, his family, his dog, and everybody he ever knew, verily, unto the
third generation) and move on.

Yeah, innocent people and dogs get killed all the time, at least this
way, there is a method to the madness.

--
Jack
People who never get carried away should be.http://jbstein.com

Sure. And if you or yours are among the innocent people killed?

Greg G. wrote:
HeyBub said:

Greg G. wrote:
Lew Hodgett said:
...
The shooting rampage raises many questions, starting with "WHY".
I've been reticent to join this fray until the smoke cleared.
But that truly is THE question of the day.

Yep, but should it be?

Carl Jung postulated that humans are evolutionarily compelled to ask (and
discover) the "why" of something. When confronted with an effect, we MUST
find out the "cause." It's in our genes!

You conveniently snipped the relevant portion. My question was why did

Easy....his superior officer has a hot job to get done.....PTSD is THE
hot button issue of the day. Firing a psychiatrist, much less one who
is a member of any minority, probably would have gotten him a circular
firing squad. He'll get one anyway, because there is now an extreme
need to identify responsible parties.


they miss clear cut signs of trouble,

What is THE clear cut sign of trouble? Which argument with my husband
will get me a bullet through my head? (Just asking, we don't argue )


not why did he do it. I'll not
argue with Jung, who certainly makes far more sense than Freud, as
relates to machinery and such - finding out the why is a requisite for
future troubleshooting and avoidance purposes.

As for humans, I gave up figuring them out years ago and don't care
why they choose to do the f'ed up things they do anymore. I do make it
a point to avoid them when I see signs of danger, and lock and load
when I can't. ;-)

In the latter case, it's simply better to deal with the effect (kill the
****er, his family, his dog, and everybody he ever knew, verily, unto the
third generation) and move on.

Umm... a bit reactionary, after all, he knew quite a few enlisted men.
I certainly don't want to be blamed for the actions of my friends and

We were all ready to tell our former friends to f--- off when they
disagreed with our campaign to invade Iraq. France, having the
experience of fighting a 20 year war in Viet Nam before we went in to
prove that such was unwinnable, told us not to go. Saddam was a truly
bad guy whose US-supplied military was bought for him to fight Iran
before the US decided to destroy it. And we wonder why the world hates
our guts?

The shooter is first generation American, from Palestinian parents and
with family still in Palestine.....Americans know it is unfashionable to
express racist sentiment, but blogs are full of it. Right after 9/11,
an acquaintance told me that the US should deport everyone not born in
the US. Unfortunately, that would have included her )

Just the constant use of expressions like "Muslim extremists" takes it's
toll. We don't use "Christian child molester" or "Christian child
rapist" .....Suicide bombers and murderers aren't practicing Islamic
beliefs any more than Jim Jones was practicing Christianity when he
dished up the KoolAid.

relatives. It's bad enough to have taken the brunt of punishment for
the local politicians and their idiot kids, much less some extremist
nut job. (Yeah, I know, an attempt at sensationalist humor...)


Greg G.

On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 15:04:49 -0500, Greg wrote:

Tim Daneliuk said:

Luigi Zanasi wrote:

Government spending increases is how we got out of the 1930s
depression. Economies remained stagnant throughout the 1930s until
government spending was massively increased starting with Germany from
1934-1938 (autobahns, public works and infrastructure, rearmament),
Canada and the UK did did it from 1939-45, US did in 1941-45.

Government spending is how the 1930s Depression was lengthened beyond
its natural lifecycle.

Oh, please. This is a long discounted canard.

Hardly. How long did it take for the stock market to recover to
pre-'29 levels?

Economics is called the "Dismal Science" for a reason - economists never
allow reality to intrude on their cute littler theories (as witnessed above).

No fan of economists here, but our current situation was caused by the
wholesale export of jobs and factories, thieving bankers, K-street,
financial con-men and rocketing energy costs. War profiteers and
energy monopolies coddled by the government haven't helped either.

It took you a while, but you finally hit the nail with your last four
words. ...and you want even more.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
Greg G. wrote:

You conveniently snipped the relevant portion. My question was why did
they miss clear cut signs of trouble, not why did he do it. I'll not
argue with Jung, who certainly makes far more sense than Freud, as
relates to machinery and such - finding out the why is a requisite for
future troubleshooting and avoidance purposes.

His betters did not miss the signs. The AP is reporting today that
interviews with several of Hassan's fellow officers and superiors declined
to raise his unfitness due to fears of Muslim and Muslim-apologist
recrimination. In other words, it wasn't politically correct.


I can't find the link right now, but a new movie is being made. It was on
Yahoo earlier this week. In the movie, they destroy the White House, the
Vatican, many other recognizable buildings, but they skipped the Muslim
building for fear of reprisal from the peace loving people.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
Greg G. wrote:
You conveniently snipped the relevant portion. My question was why did
they miss clear cut signs of trouble, not why did he do it. I'll not
argue with Jung, who certainly makes far more sense than Freud, as
relates to machinery and such - finding out the why is a requisite for
future troubleshooting and avoidance purposes.

His betters did not miss the signs. The AP is reporting today that
interviews with several of Hassan's fellow officers and superiors declined
to raise his unfitness due to fears of Muslim and Muslim-apologist
recrimination. In other words, it wasn't politically correct.

I can't find the link right now, but a new movie is being made. It was on
Yahoo earlier this week. In the movie, they destroy the White House, the
Vatican, many other recognizable buildings, but they skipped the Muslim
building for fear of reprisal from the peace loving people.

Forgive me for being dense, Ed - but would you please clarify who "they"
are and the relevance of this fictional work to the real events being
discussed?

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/