Silvan wrote:
Lawrence R Horgan wrote:


Silvan ALREADY KNOWS how to adjust his saw, you can tell by reading his


Crikey. What a mess I started!


Are you happy now??

Well, are you?



OK, let's try this on for size. I got a dial indicator, and I bought four
cap screws. I'm going to fabricate my own version of the PALS system for
$2 in materials (using angle iron I already have) and see if that works. I
think it just might.



You really want to stir things up, don't you?

You *have to* spend money on the aligning tool, not because you need to but
because , well, you just won't be part of the gang if you don't. No, you wont!


--

Mark

N.E. Ohio


Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens, A.K.A.
Mark Twain)

When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the suspense.
(Gaz, r.moto)

In article , "Bob S." wrote:
Advise you to do a search on "tablesaw alignments" . Here's one that Steve
Strickland wrote http://www.puzzlecraft.com/Projects/HTMAP/07saw.htm that
may help open your eyes to what is at play.

The discussions on the wreck between Steve Strickland and Ed Bennett of about
two years ago demonstrated that Steve's understanding of table saw alignment,
and of geometry, is seriously deficient. It's quite illuminating to read
those, to see how Ed (and others) point out Steve's errors.

The article you cite is just a rehash of the nonsense that Steve posted here,
that has been repeatedly discredited in this group. In particular, his claim
of adjusting a table saw, using his methods, to produce accuracy to within
0.0001" has been _proven_ false.

Better advice: _ignore_ everything Steve Strickland says about table saw
adjustment.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com

In article , "Bob S." wrote:
Doug,

If you had read what was written instead of trying to prove someone is wrong
all the time, it may have dawned on you that I did not state the miter
couldn't be at any other angle.

I *did* read what was written, and you certainly *did* state that. You wrote,
"the miter gauge needs to be 90° to the miter slot before any alignment if it
is the point of reference." And that just isn't true.

But why would you align a saw with it not set at 90° is beyond me.

Why, or why not? It doesn't matter -- as you have been told by at least four
others in addition to myself.

You turned it into a point that I was wrong and
that you were right and so damn righteous about it too. Nobody can be
better than Doug at anything it appears and you certainly went to great
lengths to prove that today.

You certainly have a hard time admitting that you were wrong, don't you?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com

Silvan wrote in message ...
Snip
I could never manage to get it closer than that and
keep it there while the bolts were tightened back up.

Hi Silvan,

You seem to have gotten a lot of advice on how to measure the gap but
very little on how to solve the problem of keeping everything aligned
when you tighten the bolts. Things to try:
1) Tighten one bolt at a time and check the alignment after each bolt
is tightened. It may be there are one or two bolts that are pulling
things back out of alignment. If so, tighten the offending bolts last
and just snug them up – don't get them as tight as the rest.
2) How loose were the bolts when you made the adjustment? Try moving
things around while the bolts are just barely loose so that you can
tap everything into place with a wooden mallet. It could be there is
a small gap somewhere that is causing some flexing when the bolts are
tightened. Keeping the iron in tension should help.
3) Sit down, relax for a while, and then call customer service. Maybe
this one should be first. :-)
4) Return it and get a different one. If there is a flaw in the
manufacturing process that is causing the alignment problem, then it
will always be causing you headaches. Getting a placement will let
you know if the problem is in the design or manufacture.

Good Luck,

Weldon

It must be in your blood to discredit whatever somebody else say's Doug.

So, to put this to rest - finally. Perhaps you can enlighten the group as to
how to accurately and correctly align a Contractors style tablesaw so that
we may compare your methods and procedures against those that do this sort
of thing for a living. And as I did with my posts several years back that
covered the Delta CS, please credit the original reference material, note
your changes, tips/hints, improvements and rationale.

I'm sure a great number of readers would benefit more from that exercise
than our bickering.

Bob S.


"Doug Miller" wrote in message
om...
In article , "Bob S."
wrote:
Advise you to do a search on "tablesaw alignments" . Here's one that
Steve
Strickland wrote http://www.puzzlecraft.com/Projects/HTMAP/07saw.htm that
may help open your eyes to what is at play.

The discussions on the wreck between Steve Strickland and Ed Bennett of
about
two years ago demonstrated that Steve's understanding of table saw
alignment,
and of geometry, is seriously deficient. It's quite illuminating to read
those, to see how Ed (and others) point out Steve's errors.

The article you cite is just a rehash of the nonsense that Steve posted
here,
that has been repeatedly discredited in this group. In particular, his
claim
of adjusting a table saw, using his methods, to produce accuracy to within
0.0001" has been _proven_ false.

Better advice: _ignore_ everything Steve Strickland says about table saw
adjustment.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com

In article , "Bob S." wrote:
It must be in your blood to discredit whatever somebody else say's Doug.

You really have a problem with admitting mistakes, Bob. You repeatedly posted
something that just isn't true, and I refuted it. Now you're going off on me,
saying that I have this attitude that everybody else is wrong. Go back and
read *all* the posts in the thread, Bob. I never said "everybody else" is
wrong -- I said *you* are wrong. And you are. And FOUR other people said that
too. Go rag on them for a while.

So, to put this to rest - finally. Perhaps you can enlighten the group as to
how to accurately and correctly align a Contractors style tablesaw so that
we may compare your methods and procedures against those that do this sort
of thing for a living. And as I did with my posts several years back that
covered the Delta CS, please credit the original reference material, note
your changes, tips/hints, improvements and rationale.

That was never the issue between us -- the issue was only your repeated,
mistaken insistence that it was necessary to have the miter gauge at 90
degrees to the miter slot.


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com

In article ,
"Bob S." wrote:

It must be in your blood to discredit whatever somebody else say's Doug.


OK, I think Doug may not have been very diplomatic, but:
- It doesn't matter what angle the guage is at. Why would you use other
then 90 degrees you say? Well, because you gauge is not yet squared the
the blade is why. So it might be 89.7, or whatever
- Have you read strickland's article? The man is insane. This is WOOD we
are cutting. Right after you cut it, it warps a little, probable expands
a little, etc. It has a mind of its own. I am all for accuracy, but
0.001, 0.0001, 0.002 are all pretty much the same. And no matter what,
you want a very high quality edge, the TS isn't going to give it to you.
- Who aligns tablesaws for a living???
- It isn't rocket science.
1. Rig something to compare difference between blade to miter slot at
the front and back of the blade. A stick clamped to a tight fitting
miter guage works fine and is highly accurate. No "aligner" kits needed.
2. Lossen trunion bolts very slightly. I leave one actually tight.
3. bash trunion with rubber mallet (not Steel!!! I use a deadblow one)
to make difference in (1) as close to zero as you have patience for.
4. tighten bolt. Remeasure. It will no longer be zero. Observe which
direction it is not zero and eyeball how much
5. repeat (2) -(4), except knock it out of square to account for
tightening action. If you have a good eye an a little luck, you can nail
this the first cycle. Otherwise you might need to repeat a little.

That is it. The system from woodcraft will make life a little easier,
but only a little. I did the above in under an hour, and most of that
was spent trying to get the right combination of socket extensions so I
could effectively torque the (*&(*# trunion bolts which are waaaay in
there.

All this bickering is ridiculous.



So, to put this to rest - finally. Perhaps you can enlighten the group as to
how to accurately and correctly align a Contractors style tablesaw so that
we may compare your methods and procedures against those that do this sort
of thing for a living. And as I did with my posts several years back that
covered the Delta CS, please credit the original reference material, note
your changes, tips/hints, improvements and rationale.

I'm sure a great number of readers would benefit more from that exercise
than our bickering.

Bob S.


"Doug Miller" wrote in message
om...
In article , "Bob S."
wrote:
Advise you to do a search on "tablesaw alignments" . Here's one that
Steve
Strickland wrote http://www.puzzlecraft.com/Projects/HTMAP/07saw.htm that
may help open your eyes to what is at play.

The discussions on the wreck between Steve Strickland and Ed Bennett of
about
two years ago demonstrated that Steve's understanding of table saw
alignment,
and of geometry, is seriously deficient. It's quite illuminating to read
those, to see how Ed (and others) point out Steve's errors.

The article you cite is just a rehash of the nonsense that Steve posted
here,
that has been repeatedly discredited in this group. In particular, his
claim
of adjusting a table saw, using his methods, to produce accuracy to within
0.0001" has been _proven_ false.

Better advice: _ignore_ everything Steve Strickland says about table saw
adjustment.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com

If you read what I said instead of just taking a sentence and using what
part you want, you would realize my statement is as correct as yours. In
fact, you agreed with it if you care to look.

But to stop your beating it to death, here's your opportunity to prove it
wrong - let's see your version of aligning a tablesaw, then we'll see what
procedures are the best ones to use.

This is an open invitation to show us you know what in the hell you're
talking about. You own a Jet TS I believe - so use it as the example and
you can improve on Jets alignment procedures. Some pics would be nice too.

Bob S.



"Doug Miller" wrote in message
m...
In article , "Bob S."
wrote:
It must be in your blood to discredit whatever somebody else say's Doug.

You really have a problem with admitting mistakes, Bob. You repeatedly
posted
something that just isn't true, and I refuted it. Now you're going off on
me,
saying that I have this attitude that everybody else is wrong. Go back and
read *all* the posts in the thread, Bob. I never said "everybody else" is
wrong -- I said *you* are wrong. And you are. And FOUR other people said
that
too. Go rag on them for a while.

So, to put this to rest - finally. Perhaps you can enlighten the group as
to
how to accurately and correctly align a Contractors style tablesaw so
that
we may compare your methods and procedures against those that do this
sort
of thing for a living. And as I did with my posts several years back
that
covered the Delta CS, please credit the original reference material, note
your changes, tips/hints, improvements and rationale.

That was never the issue between us -- the issue was only your repeated,
mistaken insistence that it was necessary to have the miter gauge at 90
degrees to the miter slot.


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com

In article , "Bob S." wrote:
If you read what I said instead of just taking a sentence and using what
part you want, you would realize my statement is as correct as yours. In
fact, you agreed with it if you care to look.

But to stop your beating it to death, here's your opportunity to prove it
wrong - let's see your version of aligning a tablesaw, then we'll see what
procedures are the best ones to use.

This is an open invitation to show us you know what in the hell you're
talking about. You own a Jet TS I believe - so use it as the example and
you can improve on Jets alignment procedures. Some pics would be nice too.

You have a real talent for evading the issue.

I never disagreed with your methods of alignment _in_general_, nor did I ever
claim to be able to do it better than you, or to have more experience at it,
or any of the other straw men you keep inventing to avoid discussing the
issue. You have never pointed out any part of my post which was incorrect, and
have now begun attacking me for things which I never wrote but are entirely
the product of your own imagination.

The *entire* substance of the disagreement between us is your repeated and
erroneous claim that the angle between the miter gauge and the miter slot
somehow makes a difference in aligning the miter slot to the blade. Address
*that* issue, without raising any further red herrings, or be quiet.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com

In article rs.com, Paul Kierstead wrote:
In article ,
"Bob S." wrote:

It must be in your blood to discredit whatever somebody else say's Doug.


OK, I think Doug may not have been very diplomatic, but:
- It doesn't matter what angle the guage is at. Why would you use other
then 90 degrees you say? Well, because you gauge is not yet squared the
the blade is why. So it might be 89.7, or whatever

Hey, Bob -- that makes FIVE now, besides me, who say you're wrong about that.
Go jump on Paul, now.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com

Doug, I think this guy just wants to pick a fight with someone and you seem
to be the one he has selected.


"Doug Miller" wrote in message news:jHo1c.29995
Hey, Bob -- that makes FIVE now, besides me, who say you're wrong about
that.
Go jump on Paul, now.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com

In article , "CW" wrote:
Doug, I think this guy just wants to pick a fight with someone and you seem
to be the one he has selected.

Well, he certainly seems to want to argue about something. I haven't quite
figured out *what*, yet, since he keeps changing the subject. :-)

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com

To others that object to this thread - then don't read it - real simple. But
don't tell me that bashing your tablesaw into alignment is a good thing and
that wood moves. You can bash on your tools if you like, I prefer to find
out why they won't align and fix the problem - properly. As you'll note,
several others have advised him to return the saw.

Okay Doug,

Please go back and cut and paste in your next post exactly what it is that I
said was wrong. Below is the statement I think you're referring to but hell
I've been wrong on every other count according to you - so please show me.

Here's that post verbatim....(and I pointed out in an earlier post how to
align the miter gauge to 90°)

"Also read your other post below. To make the point clear, since it is not
irrelevant, the miter gauge needs to be 90° to the miter slot before any
alignment if it is the point of reference. As adjustments are being made,
(this being the key thought) the angle will change (angle of attack) and so
will the distance between the blade and reference point. He must reset
his reference point to the front of the blade and then push it forward to
check for any differences."

Past that, I agreed the miter gauge could be at other than 90° - as long as
the point of reference (miter gauge) is reset after making an adjustment.
It's not a wrong statement at all. Would the word "should" be substituted
for "needs" in the above statement clarify it any better?

How would you have stated it?

How about just take your tape measure and measure from the blade to the
miter slot? How would you insure the angle of the tape was the same after
each measurement? My point was and is, set it at 90° and use that as the
reference. You want something other than that - fine but it doesn't make my
statement wrong.

Should I have said pick any angle you want and align the blade? What
purpose would that have served? It probably would have confused him but only
he could answer that. I provided a reference for him - just as you would
when you're trying to teach someone something. I was trying to impart a
proper method and steps for him to follow.

So if that's wrong then so be it.

Bob S.




The *entire* substance of the disagreement between us is your repeated and
erroneous claim that the angle between the miter gauge and the miter slot
somehow makes a difference in aligning the miter slot to the blade.
Address
*that* issue, without raising any further red herrings, or be quiet.

No... I won't go after Paul. I read his procedure on how to align a
tablesaw.... ;-)

But to set the record straight, Doug came after me if you care to read the
thread.

Bob S.

Doug,

No argument... you started this - remember? And changing the subject? No, I
asked you to provide instructions on how to align a tablesaw - dead on topic
and you weaseled out of that.

Bob S.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
om...
In article , "CW"
wrote:
Doug, I think this guy just wants to pick a fight with someone and you
seem
to be the one he has selected.

Well, he certainly seems to want to argue about something. I haven't quite
figured out *what*, yet, since he keeps changing the subject. :-)

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com

In your mind.


"Bob S." wrote in message
.. .
But to set the record straight, Doug came after me if you care to read the
thread.

Bob S.

In article ,
"Bob S." wrote:

To others that object to this thread - then don't read it - real simple.

I object to other being mislead that this is difficult. It isn't. It is
easy and requires not special tools or anything fancy.

But
don't tell me that bashing your tablesaw into alignment is a good thing and
that wood moves. You can bash on your tools if you like, I prefer to find
out why they won't align and fix the problem - properly. As you'll note,
several others have advised him to return the saw.

The wood moves comment was with respect to the moron who things 0.0001"
accuracy is desirable. It is a waste of time. It wasn't directed at you.

If you do not understand why bashing is necessary, then:
Either
A) You have never actually performed this procedure on a
contractor-style TS
or
B) It took you an awfully long time.

In the odd event that anyone is reading this and would like to try it,
here is the trick:
Loosen the trunion bolts VERY slightly. Were people get into trouble is
they loosen them too much. Then when they re-tighten, the trunion moves
quite a bit. This is the natural outcome of the torque of tightening, it
is not "something wrong". By loosening them very slightly and using a
little force (trust me, you could bash all day with a rubber mallet on a
heavy trunion without any damage), there is very little movement when
re-tightening. This makes the procedure much much easier.



Past that, I agreed the miter gauge could be at other than 90° - as long as
the point of reference (miter gauge) is reset after making an adjustment.
It's not a wrong statement at all. Would the word "should" be substituted
for "needs" in the above statement clarify it any better?

Lets assume the left slot.

1. Clamp stick to miter gauge so that it just touches the side of the
saw at from.
2. Slide miter guage towards the back.
A) If the stick binds, then the trunion is twisted counter clockwise,
i.e the back of the trunion needs to move left when view from the front,
right when you at the back doing the actual adjustment.
B) If a gap appears between the stick and the blade, then the trunion
is twisted clockwise.
C) if it stays barely touching all the way through, then life is very
good. Stop now.
3. loosen and adjust as above
4. Repeat (1) - (3) until you hit the stop (condition 2 C)

it isn't any easier or more difficult if the gauge is at 90 degrees; in
fact it makes no difference whatsoever. If you don't see this, then you
haven't tried it.

How about just take your tape measure and measure from the blade to the
miter slot? How would you insure the angle of the tape was the same after
each measurement? My point was and is, set it at 90° and use that as the
reference. You want something other than that - fine but it doesn't make my
statement wrong.

Using a tape measure would be a disasterous way to do it. The whole
point of the above method is to NOT depend on miter gauge accuracy,
reading accurately, etc. The only thing that really matters is that the
miter gauge does not have any play in the slot.

In article , "Bob S." wrote:
Doug,

No argument... you started this - remember?

I remember how it started: you posted, repeatedly, a claim that was nonsense.
And I called it nonsense.

And changing the subject? No, I
asked you to provide instructions on how to align a tablesaw - dead on topic
and you weaseled out of that.

That's changing the subject, Bob. The disagreement between us is over whether
the angle of the miter gauge to the miter slot makes any difference. *You* are
the one weaseling out, by your continuous raising of red herrings to avoid
discussing that issue.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com

In article , "Bob S." wrote:
To others that object to this thread - then don't read it - real simple. But
don't tell me that bashing your tablesaw into alignment is a good thing and
that wood moves. You can bash on your tools if you like, I prefer to find
out why they won't align and fix the problem - properly. As you'll note,
several others have advised him to return the saw.

Who ever said that bashing a TS into alignment *was* a good idea? Not me. Or
is that another one of your red herrings?

Okay Doug,

Please go back and cut and paste in your next post exactly what it is that I
said was wrong. Below is the statement I think you're referring to but hell
I've been wrong on every other count according to you - so please show me.

I already did that in an earlier post, but it appears you weren't paying
attention. If you had been, you wouldn't "think" that this is the statement
which I took issue with, you would know, because I quoted it and _explicitly_
stated that this was the one.

No need for me to do it again, especially as you have just done it for me.

Or perhaps you could go back and re-read the first post I made in this thread
(which you either failed to read, or failed to understand), in which I pointed
out your mistaken statements.

Here's that post verbatim....(and I pointed out in an earlier post how to
align the miter gauge to 90°)

"Also read your other post below. To make the point clear, since it is not
irrelevant, the miter gauge needs to be 90° to the miter slot before any
alignment if it is the point of reference.

RIGHT THERE. "the miter gauge needs to be 90° to the miter slot". FALSE.

As adjustments are being made,
(this being the key thought) the angle will change (angle of attack) and so
will the distance between the blade and reference point. He must reset
his reference point to the front of the blade and then push it forward to
check for any differences."

Past that, I agreed the miter gauge could be at other than 90° - as long as
the point of reference (miter gauge) is reset after making an adjustment.

So you contradicted yourself. Want a cookie?

It's not a wrong statement at all. Would the word "should" be substituted
for "needs" in the above statement clarify it any better?

No, because it would still be a false statement. The miter gauge can be at any
angle you please -- as long as it stays at the *same* angle for any given pair
of fore-and-aft measurements.

How would you have stated it?

See above.

How about just take your tape measure and measure from the blade to the
miter slot?

Not accurate enough to suit me. Maybe it is for you.

How would you insure the angle of the tape was the same after
each measurement? My point was and is, set it at 90° and use that as the
reference. You want something other than that - fine but it doesn't make my
statement wrong.

Your statement that it "needs to be at 90" IS wrong.

Should I have said pick any angle you want and align the blade?

Of course -- it's the truth.

What purpose would that have served?

Avoiding making you look silly?

It probably would have confused him but only
he could answer that. I provided a reference for him - just as you would
when you're trying to teach someone something. I was trying to impart a
proper method and steps for him to follow.

Your method's fine. It's just that _one_statement_ I take issue with.

So if that's wrong then so be it.

Bob S.

The *entire* substance of the disagreement between us is your repeated and
erroneous claim that the angle between the miter gauge and the miter slot
somehow makes a difference in aligning the miter slot to the blade.
Address
*that* issue, without raising any further red herrings, or be quiet.



--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com

In article , "Bob S." wrote:
No... I won't go after Paul. I read his procedure on how to align a
tablesaw.... ;-)

But to set the record straight, Doug came after me if you care to read the
thread.

Bob, the posts are publicly available. You made a false statement, and I
pointed out that it was false and explained why. If that's "coming after you",
well... it's probably time for another layer of tin foil in your hat.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com

Jeessuusssss - give me a break Doug. It doesn't matter anymore - I think
we've lost everyone's interest and they left - save one poor soul.

But to sum up this whole thing for the archives:

"It doesn't matter how you align your tablesaw folks, wood moves and
accuracy is not important but most of all, and this is crucial to aligning a
tablesaw - you can align your blade using your miter gauge set at any angle
you please - cause Doug say's so and that's the truth ...he proved it too."

That should about cover it,

Bob S.

PS - I told you this troll wouldn't work and they would soon get tired of
the bickering..... The Slipit troll was much better if you remeber that
one....:-)

In article , "Bob S." wrote:
But to sum up this whole thing for the archives:

"It doesn't matter how you align your tablesaw folks,

I never said that...

wood moves

nor that... (although true, it's absolutely irrelevant to this discussion)

and accuracy is not important

nor that...

but most of all, and this is crucial to aligning a tablesaw -

nor that. Are you finished producing red herrings now?

you can align your blade using your miter gauge set at any angle
you please -

I *did* say that.

cause Doug say's so

No, not because I say so. Because it's a mathematical fact. Anyone who
disagrees is free to point out where I made a mistake. I note that you are
unable to do so.

and that's the truth ...he proved it too."

Correct finally: it *is* the truth, and I *did* prove it. Not my fault that
you understand neither the concept nor the proof; I tried.

Why do you find it so hard to admit that you were wrong? I guess that's the
closest you can bring yourself to saying so... that's too bad.


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com

Doug,

You can go home now...it's over....;-)

Bob S.

Someone wrote:You can go home now...it's over....;-)

Thank God. And Barry's right about Doug being right.
Someday, it'll all be over....

I have to say again.... Doug's right. The angle of the mitre gauge doesn;t
matter one bit. The mitre gauge is what started this whole interesting and
comical thread.

And thanks Bob for reminding me of the Slipit post..... that brought back
some memories that made me smile :-). Must;ve been, what, 5 or six years
ago? About 97 or 98? hehehe

Larry

--
Americans

"Tom" wrote in message
...
Someone wrote:You can go home now...it's over....;-)

Thank God. And Barry's right about Doug being right.
Someday, it'll all be over....

Jerry Gilreath wrote:

I've been watching this thread with some intent now, because it's kinda
funny. Silvan, it's been so long since I've seen the original post, what

Yeah, a simple question that turned into a 50,000 word school yard brawl.

kind of saw is it? Is it possible the trunion bolts have molded (for lack
of a better word) themselves to the trunion, making indentions in it,
causing it to go back to the same location? Could you not try different

It's a Crapsman. Yes, a brand shiney new Crapsman. It was what I could
afford, and it's 500% better than the piece of crap it replaced even if I
never get the blade lined up right. I'm just trying to get as much out of
it as I can.

size washers on the bolts? It sort of makes sense to me. BTW, who do you
drive for? I know your a stick hauler.

A local outfit you've likely never heard of. New Energy.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Mark wrote:

Crikey. What a mess I started!

Are you happy now??

Well, are you?

No, not really. I'm ashamed that such an innocent and perfectly legitimate
question had to descend to this.

You *have to* spend money on the aligning tool, not because you need to
but because , well, you just won't be part of the gang if you don't. No,
you wont!

I did. I bought a dial indicator. It seems potentially useful. I made my
own aligning tool that's accurate plus or minus whatever slop there is in
the miter slot itself. I did't spend $150 either.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 23:18:30 -0500, Silvan
wrote:

Mark wrote:

Crikey. What a mess I started!

Are you happy now??

Well, are you?

No, not really. I'm ashamed that such an innocent and perfectly legitimate
question had to descend to this.

You *have to* spend money on the aligning tool, not because you need to
but because , well, you just won't be part of the gang if you don't. No,
you wont!

I did. I bought a dial indicator. It seems potentially useful. I made my
own aligning tool that's accurate plus or minus whatever slop there is in
the miter slot itself. I did't spend $150 either.



good choice.

now you're going to have to learn how to tram your drill press...

snip a whole lotta stuff about table saw alignment

Jeeeesh, Doug and Bob! What a mess! This is like watching two uncles go
after each other at a family gathering. All the other family members know
that one uncle made a goof and is trying to cover his tracks while the uncle
that is "right" just keeps prying for submission. Meanwhile, the family
forgets what started the argument in the first place.

I think a more valid point to argue is whether there is slop between the
miter track and the runner. Or a better argument: Using a pencil as a
precise measurement instrument? How much graphite you think wears off each
time the tip touches the blade or a feeler gauge? I'm sure a 0.01" or twelve
could be lost in that process. The original question dealt with how anal
should adjustment be. I feel you cannot be too anal until you use a more
solid standard of instrument. A stick, threaded rod, knitting needle, etc.
Yes, even one of those fancy aligner kits, if that makes you feel better.

For table saw adjustments, however, I have found that whether I used feeler
gauges and a dowel or a dial caliper on a slide, it did not make a hill of
beans difference. Not enough to make a pot of soup, anyways.

C Ya,
Mikey


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.515 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 9/1/2003

Bridger wrote:

good choice.

now you're going to have to learn how to tram your drill press...

Yes, actually, I am. Any other uses for the thing?

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

You didn't really think I was going to say Doug was "right" after all that
now did you.... Hell has a better chance of freezing over. I could just see
his shorts getting all knotty like.....;-)

Has it been that long since Matt Ritter and Slipit rode through here? Damn,
time flies when you're having fun.....

And Doug (if you haven't filtered me yet), about half-way through that
diatribe I did decide to jerk your chain a bit. I was thinking you might
notice but obviously the smiley wasn't enough. Yes, you got my hair up too
but that's what "open discussions" sometimes do. Enjoyed it and we even
managed to stay on topic - well for the most part anyway.

Bob S.

(but I'm still right.....)




"Lawrence R Horgan" wrote in message
...
I have to say again.... Doug's right. The angle of the mitre gauge doesn;t
matter one bit. The mitre gauge is what started this whole interesting and
comical thread.

And thanks Bob for reminding me of the Slipit post..... that brought back
some memories that made me smile :-). Must;ve been, what, 5 or six years
ago? About 97 or 98? hehehe

Larry

--
Americans

"Tom" wrote in message
...
Someone wrote:You can go home now...it's over....;-)

Thank God. And Barry's right about Doug being right.
Someday, it'll all be over....

"Bob S." wrote in message
...
You didn't really think I was going to say Doug was "right" after all that
now did you.... Hell has a better chance of freezing over.

No, I didn't expect that you would admit that you were wrong. Certainly not
after all the effort you put into backpedaling. I'm beginning to wonder if
you're not the puzzle guy ander a false name. Same style.

In article , "Bob S." wrote:
You didn't really think I was going to say Doug was "right" after all that
now did you... [snip]

Of course I didn't expect that. Because you don't believe it:
(but I'm still right.....)

No, you're not. And I've *proven* it mathematically.

Haven't you noticed *yet* that you are the *only* one who thinks so?

"Lawrence R Horgan" wrote in message
...
I have to say again.... Doug's right. The angle of the mitre gauge doesn;t
matter one bit.

"Tom" wrote in message
...
Thank God. And Barry's right about Doug being right.
Someday, it'll all be over....

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com

Mikey Darden wrote:

For table saw adjustments, however, I have found that whether I used
feeler gauges and a dowel or a dial caliper on a slide, it did not make a
hill of beans difference. Not enough to make a pot of soup, anyways.

Well, everybody can rest easy and quit fighting now. My faux PALS proved to
be a waste of time to fabricate, due to the limitations imposed by the
design of the saw. I couldn't get enough of a screw on one side to do any
good, so I scrapped the whole idea in favor of some 3/16" thick washers.
That took care of the self-centering problem. Using the dial indicator to
measure, and a pair of bar clamps to move things around and hold them
there, as best I can figure I have less than 0.001" of difference between
the fore and aft readings. I think it's time to give it a rest and quit
while I'm ahead.

Next stop, the fence. We'll see just how parallel it really is.

Then I guess I'd better go buy some lumber!

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Wow...

Guess your shorts really were tied in a knot over this - to bad. Need to
learn to lighten up a bit there fella and enjoy life. There's more to it
than being right.

I'll keep preaching to set the miter gauge for 90° before aligning a table
saw. It has to be set at some angle - may as well be 90° right Doug?

Bob S.

In article , "Bob S." wrote:

There's more to it
than being right.

Maybe you should take that advice to heart and stop insisting that you are
"still right", despite having been proven wrong, despite having nobody agree
with you...

I'll keep preaching to set the miter gauge for 90° before aligning a table
saw.

Keep preaching that is *must* be set to 90° and I'll keep telling you that
you're full of beans.

It has to be set at some angle - may as well be 90° right Doug?

May as well be 90, sure. Doesn't have to be. May as well be anything else,
too. Just has to be consistent.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com

Doug,

You didn't prove me wrong, you said that it could be set at any angle and
the last I checked, 90° was still an angle...

The only point I insisted on is that it setting it at 90° is not wrong - and
you agree.

We done yet or we going for chapter two?

;-)


Bob S.

In article , "Bob S." wrote:
Doug,

You didn't prove me wrong, you said that it could be set at any angle and
the last I checked, 90° was still an angle...

Yes, I did. You said it had to be 90, or it wouldn't work. That's false, and I
proved it false.

The only point I insisted on is that it setting it at 90° is not wrong - and
you agree.

That's just not true, Bob. The point you insisted on is that it _had_to_be_ 90
degrees, and that's false.

We done yet or we going for chapter two?

Apparently you've already started chapter two all on your own. In chapter one,
you managed to talk about everything under the sun *except* your mistaken
claim that the miter gauge had to be set at 90 degrees. Now, in chapter two,
you've begun denying that you ever said that.

Won't work, Bob. It's there in Google. You said it. You were wrong. Now you
deny saying it. Give it up, Bob. You're becoming pathetic.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com

Hopefully the FINAL WORD in this thread I started...

I puttered and piddled and diddle and dicked, and I got it even closer than
it was when I posted earlier. I've subsequently changed blades and checked
against the new blade with the same result. It's only a couple of gnat's
asses either side of 0 on the dial indicator, and if I hold my mouth right,
sometimes no gnat asses at all.

I won't even ask how anal I should be about getting the fence lined up next.
I'll keep at it until I get it right.

Then we'll see about a WWII.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 10:00:05 -0500, Silvan
wrote:

Bridger wrote:

good choice.

now you're going to have to learn how to tram your drill press...

Yes, actually, I am. Any other uses for the thing?



tons of uses. pretty much anything that can be adjusted can be
adjusted better with an indicator.

how about:

router fence adjustments.

the "rest" of your table saw:
http://www.ts-aligner.com/tsaligner.htm
http://www.woodworking.org/WC/GArchi...tsaligner.html
http://www.mastergage.com/downloads/...r%20Manual.pdf
http://www.runnerduck.com/tune_up.htm

setting jointer knives:
http://benchmark.20m.com/workshop/Ji...Jigs_Dial.html

tensioning your band saw:
http://www.lenoxsaw.com/tension.htm

tune up your drill press:
http://www.woodcentral.com/bparticle...urements.shtml
http://www.runnerduck.com/tune_up.htm

depth of drilled holes:
http://pweb.netcom.com/~madyn/Electr...%20halfway.jpg

check things like router collets for truth.

and some general info...
http://www.shopnotes.com/main/articl...indicator.html
http://www.mastergage.com/downloads/...c%20Manual.PDF
http://www.mini-lathe.com/Measuremen...indicators.htm
http://www.woodcentral.com/bparticle...ndicator.shtml
http://www.mmsonline.com/articles/0301gage.html
http://www.mmsonline.com/articles/0303gage.html
http://www.mmsonline.com/articles/0398gage.html
http://www.mmsonline.com/articles/0401gage.html
http://www.mmsonline.com/articles/0602gage.html
http://longislandindicator.com/