Greetings,

I'm considering upgrading from my current contractor saw to a hybrid saw.
I'm hope to gain improved dust collection because of the enclosed cabinet
and a smaller footprint than my current saw (a craftsman 10inch
contractor). I'm limited to 115v in my shop.

Do any of you have experience with the Delta 36-717? The reviews seem mixed
on Amazon... that makes me nervous. Would you recommend a hybrid saw by
another manufacturer?

I apologize if this has been discussed, I did some searches without success.

Regards,
Mike

Mike Howland wrote:
Greetings,

I'm considering upgrading from my current contractor saw to a hybrid saw.
I'm hope to gain improved dust collection because of the enclosed cabinet
and a smaller footprint than my current saw (a craftsman 10inch
contractor). I'm limited to 115v in my shop.

Do any of you have experience with the Delta 36-717? The reviews seem mixed
on Amazon... that makes me nervous. Would you recommend a hybrid saw by
another manufacturer?

I apologize if this has been discussed, I did some searches without success.

Regards,
Mike

Check out this 'modofied' contractor saw from Jet. The dust collection
is supposed to be much better than a standard contractor saw. I don't
have one so can't say.

http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/shop/ind...=4&iid=6056005

"Mike Howland" wrote in message
...
Greetings,

I'm considering upgrading from my current contractor saw to a hybrid saw.
I'm hope to gain improved dust collection because of the enclosed cabinet
and a smaller footprint than my current saw (a craftsman 10inch
contractor). I'm limited to 115v in my shop.

Do any of you have experience with the Delta 36-717? The reviews seem
mixed
on Amazon... that makes me nervous. Would you recommend a hybrid saw by
another manufacturer?

I apologize if this has been discussed, I did some searches without
success.

Regards,
Mike

I am not sure about the Delta but many Hybrids require Hybrid Accessories.
Something to think about when buying.

Mike Howland wrote:
Greetings,

I'm considering upgrading from my current contractor saw to a hybrid saw.
I'm hope to gain improved dust collection because of the enclosed cabinet
and a smaller footprint than my current saw (a craftsman 10inch
contractor). I'm limited to 115v in my shop.

Do any of you have experience with the Delta 36-717? The reviews seem mixed
on Amazon... that makes me nervous. Would you recommend a hybrid saw by
another manufacturer?

I apologize if this has been discussed, I did some searches without success.



Do yourself a favor.

Go to Sears and look CLOSELY at the 22104, 22114 and 22124 saws.


Wonderful, well-performing saws built by Orion, which is run by
ex-Delta folks.

These saws can often be had at deep discounts.

I've had a 22114 for a few years now and couldn't be happier.

Good Luck

I'm limited to 115v in my shop.

Just curious. Why are you limited to 115V?


--
Stoutman
www.garagewoodworks.com

Ditto. I have the 22114.

Gus wrote:
Mike Howland wrote:
Greetings,

I'm considering upgrading from my current contractor saw to a hybrid saw.
I'm hope to gain improved dust collection because of the enclosed cabinet
and a smaller footprint than my current saw (a craftsman 10inch
contractor). I'm limited to 115v in my shop.

Do any of you have experience with the Delta 36-717? The reviews seem mixed
on Amazon... that makes me nervous. Would you recommend a hybrid saw by
another manufacturer?

I apologize if this has been discussed, I did some searches without success.



Do yourself a favor.

Go to Sears and look CLOSELY at the 22104, 22114 and 22124 saws.


Wonderful, well-performing saws built by Orion, which is run by
ex-Delta folks.

These saws can often be had at deep discounts.

I've had a 22114 for a few years now and couldn't be happier.

Good Luck

On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 15:44:00 -0800, ibarakicho wrote:

Ditto. I have the 22114.

How rigid is the fence on that?

I was looking at a 22114 in the Sears store the other day, on the one in
the store the fence had a good deal of flex in it, compared to the
Biesemeyer on the saw next to it that had no give at all, and compared to
a Ridgid at Home Depot across the street that felt like it was welded
down. I could grab the back end and wiggle it an eighth of an inch or
more easily but it felt like springing rather than something slipping.

Now, I'm fully prepared to believe that the people in the store didn't
assemble it correctly or didn't sock down all the fasteners, and am
wondering if that is in fact the case, hence my question.

Gus wrote:
Mike Howland wrote:
Greetings,

I'm considering upgrading from my current contractor saw to a hybrid
saw. I'm hope to gain improved dust collection because of the
enclosed cabinet and a smaller footprint than my current saw (a
craftsman 10inch contractor). I'm limited to 115v in my shop.

Do any of you have experience with the Delta 36-717? The reviews
seem mixed on Amazon... that makes me nervous. Would you recommend a
hybrid saw by another manufacturer?

I apologize if this has been discussed, I did some searches without
success.



Do yourself a favor.

Go to Sears and look CLOSELY at the 22104, 22114 and 22124 saws.


Wonderful, well-performing saws built by Orion, which is run by
ex-Delta folks.

These saws can often be had at deep discounts.

I've had a 22114 for a few years now and couldn't be happier.

Good Luck

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Mike Howland wrote:
Greetings,

I'm considering upgrading from my current contractor saw to a hybrid saw.
I'm hope to gain improved dust collection because of the enclosed cabinet
and a smaller footprint than my current saw (a craftsman 10inch
contractor). I'm limited to 115v in my shop.

Do any of you have experience with the Delta 36-717? The reviews seem mixed
on Amazon... that makes me nervous. Would you recommend a hybrid saw by
another manufacturer?

I apologize if this has been discussed, I did some searches without success.

Regards,
Mike


For 1/2 the price you can get a used unisaw that's much more sturdy and
has a 110/220 volt motor. But if you have the extra bucks to spend on
a lesser piece of equipment go for it. Plus the new saw will be more
pretty and shiney and the wood does care.

AM Wood

Mike Howland wrote:
Greetings,

I'm considering upgrading from my current contractor saw to a hybrid saw.
I apologize if this has been discussed, I did some searches without success.

Regards,
Mike

As usual, A.M. Wood wrote:
"For 1/2 the price you can get a used unisaw that's much more sturdy
and
has a 110/220 volt motor. But if you have the extra bucks to spend on
a lesser piece of equipment go for it. Plus the new saw will bions e
more
pretty and shiney and the wood does care."

If you will use the advanced search at the top of the page and enter
"hybrid" you will find endless opinions and discussions of these saws.
My advice is find out where A.M.Woods resides and go there immediately!
They have a large supply of people begging to get rid of their unisaws
cheaply there.

RayV wrote:

Check out this 'modofied' contractor saw from Jet. The dust collection
is supposed to be much better than a standard contractor saw. I don't
have one so can't say.

http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/shop/ind...=4&iid=6056005

I just bought this saw last month and I couldn't be happier. I got a
pretty good price on it ($399.99) at Woodcraft. The saw is sweet but I
have to say I am going to string a 220 line and convert the motor to
220 as sson as I can. This thing really sucks the juice. That said,
it works like a charm with my shop vac hooked up to it.

wrote:

As usual, A.M. Wood wrote:
"For 1/2 the price you can get a used unisaw that's much more sturdy
and
has a 110/220 volt motor. But if you have the extra bucks to spend on
a lesser piece of equipment go for it. Plus the new saw will bions e
more
pretty and shiney and the wood does care."

If you will use the advanced search at the top of the page and enter
"hybrid" you will find endless opinions and discussions of these saws.
My advice is find out where A.M.Woods resides and go there immediately!
They have a large supply of people begging to get rid of their unisaws
cheaply there.

Who peed in your cheerios this morning? The man asked for
opinions/advice and I provided mine. My advice is that the current
stuff coming out of chaiwan with a Delta label isn't worth buying.
Older used equipment, even at 75% of the retail price of a new machine,
is a much better value because the manufacturer's have been cuting
quality to keep costs down.


A.M. Wood

"A.M. Wood" wrote in
ups.com:

For 1/2 the price you can get a used unisaw that's much more sturdy
and has a 110/220 volt motor.

I wasn't aware of a 110v Unisaw. Enlightenment, please.

Patriarch,
who paid a bunch to rewire for 220v and other stuff...

Patriarch wrote:
"A.M. Wood" wrote in
ups.com:

For 1/2 the price you can get a used unisaw that's much more sturdy
and has a 110/220 volt motor.

I wasn't aware of a 110v Unisaw. Enlightenment, please.

Patriarch,
who paid a bunch to rewire for 220v and other stuff...

Not sure what you want to see for proof other than the hundreds of
thousands of unisaws made with IR 110/220 motors.

Stoutman wrote:


I'm limited to 115v in my shop.

Just curious. Why are you limited to 115V?



Greetings!

Strictly speaking I'm not limited to 115v... My Oneida dust collector is
wired for 220. I just wanted to avoid running a new line. I have a
dedicated 20a 115v line I use for my tablesaw and wanted to keep exploiting
it since it's already there.

My big concern is the dust collection. I've found my contractor saw to have
enough cutting power (Craftsman model 113.299410, contractor saw). The
open back makes it messy.. even with the DC pulling air.

The hybrids seem to address this concern... at least somewhat. I was just
curious about what folks thought. The hybrids also seem to have a slightly
smaller footprint. I *am* somewhat limited in space so a full-blown unisaw
is out of the question, I'm afraid and if the hybrid was slightly smaller,
all the more room for me in the shop.

Thanks to all the posters!
I appreciate the feedback,

Regards,
Mike

Mike Howland wrote:
Greetings!

Strictly speaking I'm not limited to 115v... My Oneida dust collector is
wired for 220. I just wanted to avoid running a new line. I have a
dedicated 20a 115v line I use for my tablesaw and wanted to keep exploiting
it since it's already there.

My big concern is the dust collection. I've found my contractor saw to have
enough cutting power (Craftsman model 113.299410, contractor saw). The
open back makes it messy.. even with the DC pulling air.

The hybrids seem to address this concern... at least somewhat. I was just
curious about what folks thought. The hybrids also seem to have a slightly
smaller footprint. I *am* somewhat limited in space so a full-blown unisaw
is out of the question, I'm afraid and if the hybrid was slightly smaller,
all the more room for me in the shop.

Thanks to all the posters!
I appreciate the feedback,

Regards,
Mike

Regarding the "footprint." The table top and fence will be larger than
the base of the saw. A table that is not very deep is going to make
cutting stock difficult. The length of the fence is independent of
the saw when your comparing a cabinet saw to a hybrid to a cabinet saw.


AM Wood

I got a canvas bag from Harbor Fright for $5 and added snaps to saw and bag
for about three dollars. I have to empty it, of course, but it does collect
lots of saw dust!

If you can get a "collar" sized to fit your shop vac, add it to the bottom
of the bag (its the weight,, dear) and you can suck the dust out of it (next
project).

Much cheaper than a new saw if the old one cuts well enough for you!


"Gus" wrote in message
oups.com...

Mike Howland wrote:
Greetings,

I'm considering upgrading from my current contractor saw to a hybrid saw.
I'm hope to gain improved dust collection because of the enclosed cabinet
and a smaller footprint than my current saw (a craftsman 10inch
contractor). I'm limited to 115v in my shop.

Do any of you have experience with the Delta 36-717? The reviews seem
mixed
on Amazon... that makes me nervous. Would you recommend a hybrid saw by
another manufacturer?

I apologize if this has been discussed, I did some searches without
success.



Do yourself a favor.

Go to Sears and look CLOSELY at the 22104, 22114 and 22124 saws.


Wonderful, well-performing saws built by Orion, which is run by
ex-Delta folks.

These saws can often be had at deep discounts.

I've had a 22114 for a few years now and couldn't be happier.

Good Luck

Who peed in your cheerios this morning? The man asked for
opinions/advice and I provided mine. My advice is that the current
stuff coming out of chaiwan with a Delta label isn't worth buying.
Older used equipment, even at 75% of the retail price of a new machine,
is a much better value because the manufacturer's have been cuting
quality to keep costs down.


A.M. Wood

As you suggest I waited 8 months early this year diligently searching
the Atlanta, Jacksonville,Savannah, and Charleston SC Craig's lists,
tool auctions, and newspapers for used Unisaws. I found one 3 phase
unit and one in several baskets covered with four coats of paint
applied with a brush. I finally purchased a new Steel City hybrid with
3HP 220V motor and am so glad I did. It's quality is why the current
Fine Woodworking Tools and Shop issue recommends the Sears/Steel City
Orion table saws for their under 5K workshop. Better yet, it's
available right now. Now you could save some poor guy from having to
settle for a crappy quality "chaiwan" saw by putting your old Unisaw on
the market right now. How about it? Let us know when it's listed at a
good price...one we can gloat about. Too many seekers chasing too few
Unisaws is poor advice.

I did see several on e-bay right after reading this post:

http://cgi.ebay.com/DELTA-ROCKWELL-1...QQcmdZViewItem


wrote in message
ups.com...

Who peed in your cheerios this morning? The man asked for
opinions/advice and I provided mine. My advice is that the current
stuff coming out of chaiwan with a Delta label isn't worth buying.
Older used equipment, even at 75% of the retail price of a new machine,
is a much better value because the manufacturer's have been cuting
quality to keep costs down.


A.M. Wood

As you suggest I waited 8 months early this year diligently searching
the Atlanta, Jacksonville,Savannah, and Charleston SC Craig's lists,
tool auctions, and newspapers for used Unisaws. I found one 3 phase
unit and one in several baskets covered with four coats of paint
applied with a brush. I finally purchased a new Steel City hybrid with
3HP 220V motor and am so glad I did. It's quality is why the current
Fine Woodworking Tools and Shop issue recommends the Sears/Steel City
Orion table saws for their under 5K workshop. Better yet, it's
available right now. Now you could save some poor guy from having to
settle for a crappy quality "chaiwan" saw by putting your old Unisaw on
the market right now. How about it? Let us know when it's listed at a
good price...one we can gloat about. Too many seekers chasing too few
Unisaws is poor advice.

In article ,
Mike Howland wrote:

The hybrids seem to address this concern... at least somewhat. I was just
curious about what folks thought. The hybrids also seem to have a slightly
smaller footprint. I *am* somewhat limited in space so a full-blown unisaw
is out of the question, I'm afraid and if the hybrid was slightly smaller,
all the more room for me in the shop.

Regards,
Mike


Mike, if you've got the $, I believe you will find that for the same
fence rail length, the Unisaw will have a slightly SMALLER footprint
than a standard belt-drive, motor-in-the-back contractor's saw.


--
When the game is over, the pawn and the king are returned to the same box.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland -

wrote:

In article ,
Mike Howland wrote:

The hybrids seem to address this concern... at least somewhat. I was just
curious about what folks thought. The hybrids also seem to have a
slightly
smaller footprint. I *am* somewhat limited in space so a full-blown
unisaw is out of the question, I'm afraid and if the hybrid was slightly
smaller, all the more room for me in the shop.

Regards,
Mike


Mike, if you've got the $, I believe you will find that for the same
fence rail length, the Unisaw will have a slightly SMALLER footprint
than a standard belt-drive, motor-in-the-back contractor's saw.



I hadn't considered that. I will have to give them a closer look. My shop
space is in my basement (about 33' x 13') so every inch is precious.

Thanks again all for all the replies,
Regards,
Mike

On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 17:28:23 GMT, Mike Howland
wrote:

Greetings,

I'm considering upgrading from my current contractor saw to a hybrid saw.
I'm hope to gain improved dust collection because of the enclosed cabinet
and a smaller footprint than my current saw (a craftsman 10inch
contractor). I'm limited to 115v in my shop.

Do any of you have experience with the Delta 36-717? The reviews seem mixed
on Amazon... that makes me nervous. Would you recommend a hybrid saw by
another manufacturer?

I apologize if this has been discussed, I did some searches without success.

Regards,
Mike

FWIW, I bought a General 50-220C M1 during Woodcraft's 10% (or more)
off sale last September. I did compare with the Delta 36-717. The
Woodcraft guys said they sold more of that model than any other.
However, in my opinion, the General is better.

Yes, it's a hybrid. About $850 on sale. With a Biesemeyer clone
fence. So far it's great. It replaced a 10" Craftsman contractors
saw with all the usual mods - fence, belt, pulleys, insert.

Smaller footprint - yes. But the top takes up just as much room. In
fact, I built an extension wing to hang on the right side. In my
studio, I use the tablesaws top for work other than sawing. My studio
is small.

Considering that I got along o.k. with the power of the Craftsman
(nothing to write home about) the 2hp motor the General comes with is
marvelous! But more power was something I'd wanted for a long time,
but I couldn't justify a new saw to wifey solely on that. This fall
it became apparent that dust collection was going to be necessary and
that provided the final reason to buy a new saw.

There isn't a darn thing to complain about with this saw. It's
powerful enough, it's pretty good on dust collection, 'cept dust still
comes off the blade on the top. I gotta buy a shark guard yet to pull
dust from the topside. But that'll be true for any tablesaw.

BTW, I had no trouble selling my old Craftsman saw. It appears that
if the saw is at all any good, there's buyers lined up out the door
and around the block to get one. In light of that, good luck holding
out for a used cabinet saw.

George Max wrote:

On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 17:28:23 GMT, Mike Howland
wrote:

Greetings,

I'm considering upgrading from my current contractor saw to a hybrid saw.
I'm hope to gain improved dust collection because of the enclosed cabinet
and a smaller footprint than my current saw (a craftsman 10inch
contractor). I'm limited to 115v in my shop.

Do any of you have experience with the Delta 36-717? The reviews seem
mixed
on Amazon... that makes me nervous. Would you recommend a hybrid saw by
another manufacturer?

I apologize if this has been discussed, I did some searches without
success.

Regards,
Mike

FWIW, I bought a General 50-220C M1 during Woodcraft's 10% (or more)
off sale last September. I did compare with the Delta 36-717. The
Woodcraft guys said they sold more of that model than any other.
However, in my opinion, the General is better.

Yes, it's a hybrid. About $850 on sale. With a Biesemeyer clone
fence. So far it's great. It replaced a 10" Craftsman contractors
saw with all the usual mods - fence, belt, pulleys, insert.

Smaller footprint - yes. But the top takes up just as much room. In
fact, I built an extension wing to hang on the right side. In my
studio, I use the tablesaws top for work other than sawing. My studio
is small.

Considering that I got along o.k. with the power of the Craftsman
(nothing to write home about) the 2hp motor the General comes with is
marvelous! But more power was something I'd wanted for a long time,
but I couldn't justify a new saw to wifey solely on that. This fall
it became apparent that dust collection was going to be necessary and
that provided the final reason to buy a new saw.

There isn't a darn thing to complain about with this saw. It's
powerful enough, it's pretty good on dust collection, 'cept dust still
comes off the blade on the top. I gotta buy a shark guard yet to pull
dust from the topside. But that'll be true for any tablesaw.

BTW, I had no trouble selling my old Craftsman saw. It appears that
if the saw is at all any good, there's buyers lined up out the door
and around the block to get one. In light of that, good luck holding
out for a used cabinet saw.

Thanks George.
Still looking but, like you, dust collection is my big concern. The
Craftsman saw runs just fine, is accurate enough for me and fine for the
ripping I do (I break out the bandsaw for the thicker material). I already
have a buyer lined up for the contractor saw I have.
Mike

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 21:25:33 GMT, Mike Howland
wrote:

George Max wrote:

On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 17:28:23 GMT, Mike Howland
wrote:

Greetings,

I'm considering upgrading from my current contractor saw to a hybrid saw.


FWIW, I bought a General 50-220C M1 during Woodcraft's 10% (or more)
off sale last September.

Thanks George.
Still looking but, like you, dust collection is my big concern. The
Craftsman saw runs just fine, is accurate enough for me and fine for the
ripping I do (I break out the bandsaw for the thicker material). I already
have a buyer lined up for the contractor saw I have.
Mike

Ha! Just how it went for me, 'cept I was doing *all* my ripping on
the TS, even 3" thick hard maple. Yes, it was tough. I didn't have a
bandsaw when that had to be done.

Now you're nearing decision time. Good luck.

On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 20:24:45 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:


"Mike Howland" wrote in message
.. .
Greetings,

I'm considering upgrading from my current contractor saw to a hybrid saw.
I'm hope to gain improved dust collection because of the enclosed cabinet
and a smaller footprint than my current saw (a craftsman 10inch
contractor). I'm limited to 115v in my shop.

Do any of you have experience with the Delta 36-717? The reviews seem
mixed
on Amazon... that makes me nervous. Would you recommend a hybrid saw by
another manufacturer?

I apologize if this has been discussed, I did some searches without
success.

Regards,
Mike

I am not sure about the Delta but many Hybrids require Hybrid Accessories.
Something to think about when buying.


What are you talking about? The first thing I did with my hybrid from
General was buy a JessEm miter gauge. It's works just fine. Nothing
"hybrid" about that miter gauge.

Hello Mike,
If I may throw two cents worth in, may I suggest you rethink your
situation. You said you're considering a hybrid just because of
footprint. It sounds to me like your real issue is not so much the saw
base as the table top. Table tops are usually larger than the base and
most are pretty close to the same before extensions unless you
downgrade to a benchtop.

If you haven't already, consider the average lengths of the wood(s)
you're working with. If it's plywood sheets perhaps you can get by
with some kind of vertical sheet-cutting rig. If you're cutting long
stretches for cabinets then I'm not sure how you will work around
extension tables without maneuvering your existing (if you have them)
work tables. Some people utilize the table saw itself as a workbench
in crowded spaces by placing a top over it when not in use. You can
make a creative use of tables in conjuntion with your saw so that you
are not dependent on permanent extension wings but you'll run into
issues when you want to use your fence on them if they're not exactly
the same depth as your table saw and you can't get them aligned
properly. Again, the size of the wood you commonly work with will
dictate a lot of what you can and can't get away with.

As for dust collection, a cabinet without any suction on it is going to
shoot dust in your face and soon will cloud up your basement. At some
point you have to address that and a cabinet isn't much better than a
nylon bag with a string tied around the dust chute.

As for table saws, I don't think there's anyone here who doesn't think
their brand is the best. I used to own a Craftsman and I believe that
what they market as 'contractor saws' are nothing more than benchtops
in a contractor saw coat. I've got the Delta 36-982 contractor saw
(comes w/ Biesemeyer fence and side extension table). I don't think
anything Craftsman sells holds a candle to it, but, as you see, I have
my preference too. Delta considers it their 'contractor saw'. If you
get a chance drop in at Lowe's and have a look. One particular problem
I have with Craftsman is their rampant use of plastics throughout their
tools, their poor knockoff features and their non-standard designs
(e.g. miter slots, clearance plates, etc.). I just think for the same
money you get more from Delta and Jet. I'm sure there are hordes ready
to pull their teeth out that I didn't mention Steel City, Powermatic
and General. Well, when I get the money to just go hog wild, perhaps-
meanwhile I'm big on Delta (non-shopmaster) and Jet. I think they both
offer great all around value (quality, durability, features, customer
service) for the money. But, again, I have a hard time seeing the saw
as much the main issue as table space and the size of wood you work
with. If you're limited with space and moving from a Sears contractor
to a hybrid I think you'll either have the same issue or it will be
worse since the hybrid is likely to be as large or larger than a Sears
contractor. If anything I would consider finding a quality benchtop
(likely Bosch or Dewalt) and using benches in some configuration as
make shift extension tables if space were the issue.

If anyone doesn't like my Delta/Jet suggestion please feel free to ship
me the best Table Saw of your choice and I'll be happy to give it a
try. :-)

On Dec 14, 3:20 am, "Chrisgiraffe" wrote:
Hello Mike,
If I may throw two cents worth in, may I suggest you rethink your
snip
If anything I would consider finding a quality benchtop
(likely Bosch or Dewalt) and using benches in some configuration as
make shift extension tables if space were the issue.

If anyone doesn't like my Delta/Jet suggestion please feel free to ship
me the best Table Saw of your choice and I'll be happy to give it a
try. :-)

May I suggest Grizzly deserves a look? I am very pleased with my G1023
cabinet and it was a smokin deal a few years ago, and a buddy got the
contractor model with the aluminum fence w/T slot in it and he is super
pleased, he built an entire kitchen cabinet set with it, he's
unbeliveably anal and had no complaints at all. It seems that many of
these units look about the same (General, Jet, Grizzly, etc) and I
wouldn't doubt they have some common relationship back China or
thereabouts where nearly all of this stuff comes from. Good luck. I
like having a 220 3 horse saw, although its overkill 90% of the time.

On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 01:20:14 -0800, Chrisgiraffe wrote:

Hello Mike,
If I may throw two cents worth in, may I suggest you rethink your
situation. You said you're considering a hybrid just because of
footprint. It sounds to me like your real issue is not so much the saw
base as the table top. Table tops are usually larger than the base and
most are pretty close to the same before extensions unless you
downgrade to a benchtop.

If you haven't already, consider the average lengths of the wood(s)
you're working with. If it's plywood sheets perhaps you can get by
with some kind of vertical sheet-cutting rig. If you're cutting long
stretches for cabinets then I'm not sure how you will work around
extension tables without maneuvering your existing (if you have them)
work tables. Some people utilize the table saw itself as a workbench
in crowded spaces by placing a top over it when not in use. You can
make a creative use of tables in conjuntion with your saw so that you
are not dependent on permanent extension wings but you'll run into
issues when you want to use your fence on them if they're not exactly
the same depth as your table saw and you can't get them aligned
properly. Again, the size of the wood you commonly work with will
dictate a lot of what you can and can't get away with.

As for dust collection, a cabinet without any suction on it is going to
shoot dust in your face and soon will cloud up your basement. At some
point you have to address that and a cabinet isn't much better than a
nylon bag with a string tied around the dust chute.

As for table saws, I don't think there's anyone here who doesn't think
their brand is the best. I used to own a Craftsman and I believe that
what they market as 'contractor saws' are nothing more than benchtops
in a contractor saw coat. I've got the Delta 36-982 contractor saw
(comes w/ Biesemeyer fence and side extension table). I don't think
anything Craftsman sells holds a candle to it, but, as you see, I have
my preference too. Delta considers it their 'contractor saw'. If you
get a chance drop in at Lowe's and have a look. One particular problem
I have with Craftsman is their rampant use of plastics throughout their
tools, their poor knockoff features and their non-standard designs
(e.g. miter slots, clearance plates, etc.).

Personally I'm in the market for a table saw myself and for various
reasons a Unisaw is out of the question. Took a look at that Delta and
the best price I find on it is higher than the top end of the Craftsman
line, which is a cabinet saw, not a contractor saw, and also has a
Biesemeyer fence, and very little plastic in evidence. Their next step
down is the same mechanism on legs instead of an enclosed base, and with
their fence--it's a lot cheaper than the Delta but the two examples I've
looked at so far both have some flex in the fence which may be indicative
of a design problem or may be just the store's half-assed job of assembly.
I wasn't aware that there was any established standard for clearance
plates, but the miter slot appears to be completely standard give or take
manufacturing tolerances.

I just think for the same
money you get more from Delta and Jet. I'm sure there are hordes ready
to pull their teeth out that I didn't mention Steel City, Powermatic and
General. Well, when I get the money to just go hog wild, perhaps-
meanwhile I'm big on Delta (non-shopmaster) and Jet. I think they both
offer great all around value (quality, durability, features, customer
service) for the money. But, again, I have a hard time seeing the saw
as much the main issue as table space and the size of wood you work
with. If you're limited with space and moving from a Sears contractor
to a hybrid I think you'll either have the same issue or it will be
worse since the hybrid is likely to be as large or larger than a Sears
contractor. If anything I would consider finding a quality benchtop
(likely Bosch or Dewalt) and using benches in some configuration as make
shift extension tables if space were the issue.

If anyone doesn't like my Delta/Jet suggestion please feel free to ship
me the best Table Saw of your choice and I'll be happy to give it a try. :-)

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Hello again,
I'd mentioned creative uses of table tops/work surfaces in an earlier
post to help your situation. Here's a good example of how one author
solved the same problem. As you see, this plan takes a decent benchtop
model saw (Porter Cable), incorporates a router into the extension
table, makes use of a very good fence (the Biesemeyer) and still
provides storage underneath, while putting the entire thing on wheels
to allow for a variety of shop set ups:

http://www.binkyswoodworking.com/TblSawCab.html

Hope this inspires a few good ideas. If not, they have a link to the
plans. I strongly considered this set up myself but I have enough room
for a decent contractor's saw. I read the reviews on the Delta you
mentioned on Amazon. Those reviews really are a mixed bag. Most sound
like they had a couple of quality control issues involved with a new
product roll out. If anything, I know from my own experience Delta has
outstanding customer saws. The kinds of issues the reviewers came
across can really happen with any saw- particularly a new model. The
important thing is whether you can actually talk to someone who will
fix it or whether you get a website that says you're better off going
to a local machine shop or sending the whole thing back. I would still
put my money on a Delta over a similar costing model any day-
especially a Craftsman.


Mike Howland wrote:
Greetings,

I'm considering upgrading from my current contractor saw to a hybrid saw.
I'm hope to gain improved dust collection because of the enclosed cabinet
and a smaller footprint than my current saw (a craftsman 10inch
contractor). I'm limited to 115v in my shop.

Do any of you have experience with the Delta 36-717? The reviews seem mixed
on Amazon... that makes me nervous. Would you recommend a hybrid saw by
another manufacturer?

I apologize if this has been discussed, I did some searches without success.

Regards,
Mike

One more tidbit,
If you're considering a cabinet saw I just came across an outstanding
deal from Steel City. Their model 35601 is currently running on sale
for $899.00!

http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com/pd...ty_fall_us.pdf

J. Clarke wrote:

On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 01:20:14 -0800, Chrisgiraffe wrote:

Hello Mike,
If I may throw two cents worth in, may I suggest you rethink your
situation. You said you're considering a hybrid just because of
footprint. It sounds to me like your real issue is not so much the
saw base as the table top. Table tops are usually larger than the
base and most are pretty close to the same before extensions unless
you downgrade to a benchtop.

If you haven't already, consider the average lengths of the wood(s)
you're working with. If it's plywood sheets perhaps you can get by
with some kind of vertical sheet-cutting rig. If you're cutting
long stretches for cabinets then I'm not sure how you will work
around extension tables without maneuvering your existing (if you
have them) work tables. Some people utilize the table saw itself
as a workbench in crowded spaces by placing a top over it when not
in use. You can make a creative use of tables in conjuntion with
your saw so that you are not dependent on permanent extension wings
but you'll run into issues when you want to use your fence on them
if they're not exactly the same depth as your table saw and you
can't get them aligned properly. Again, the size of the wood you
commonly work with will dictate a lot of what you can and can't get
away with.

As for dust collection, a cabinet without any suction on it is
going to shoot dust in your face and soon will cloud up your
basement. At some point you have to address that and a cabinet
isn't much better than a nylon bag with a string tied around the
dust chute.

As for table saws, I don't think there's anyone here who doesn't
think their brand is the best. I used to own a Craftsman and I
believe that what they market as 'contractor saws' are nothing more
than benchtops in a contractor saw coat. I've got the Delta 36-982
contractor saw (comes w/ Biesemeyer fence and side extension
table). I don't think anything Craftsman sells holds a candle to
it, but, as you see, I have my preference too. Delta considers it
their 'contractor saw'. If you get a chance drop in at Lowe's and
have a look. One particular problem I have with Craftsman is their
rampant use of plastics throughout their tools, their poor knockoff
features and their non-standard designs (e.g. miter slots,
clearance plates, etc.).

Personally I'm in the market for a table saw myself and for various
reasons a Unisaw is out of the question. Took a look at that Delta
and the best price I find on it is higher than the top end of the
Craftsman line, which is a cabinet saw, not a contractor saw, and
also has a Biesemeyer fence, and very little plastic in evidence.
Their next step down is the same mechanism on legs instead of an
enclosed base, and with their fence--it's a lot cheaper than the
Delta but the two examples I've looked at so far both have some flex
in the fence which may be indicative of a design problem or may be
just the store's half-assed job of assembly. I wasn't aware that
there was any established standard for clearance plates, but the
miter slot appears to be completely standard give or take
manufacturing tolerances.

I just think for the same
money you get more from Delta and Jet. I'm sure there are hordes
ready to pull their teeth out that I didn't mention Steel City,
Powermatic and General. Well, when I get the money to just go hog
wild, perhaps- meanwhile I'm big on Delta (non-shopmaster) and Jet.
I think they both offer great all around value (quality,
durability, features, customer service) for the money. But, again,
I have a hard time seeing the saw as much the main issue as table
space and the size of wood you work with. If you're limited with
space and moving from a Sears contractor to a hybrid I think you'll
either have the same issue or it will be worse since the hybrid is
likely to be as large or larger than a Sears contractor. If
anything I would consider finding a quality benchtop (likely Bosch
or Dewalt) and using benches in some configuration as make shift
extension tables if space were the issue.

If anyone doesn't like my Delta/Jet suggestion please feel free to
ship me the best Table Saw of your choice and I'll be happy to give
it a try. :-)

I just finished assembling a Grizzly G0478 Hybrid as a surprise
birthday gift for my brother-in-law. His wife left it up to me to do
the research on saws. I looked at Delta, Jet, General and the Craftsman
Professional. There was a price limit ($1000) and a time factor. The
Grizzly was $695 + $89 shipping to Boise,Id.It arrived in three days.
It's a very good saw for the money. He was surprised too. Jim

--

Chrisgiraffe wrote:

One particular problem
I have with Craftsman is their rampant use of plastics throughout their
tools, their poor knockoff features and their non-standard designs
(e.g. miter slots, clearance plates, etc.).


Interesting. Cheap toolmakers using non-standard parts in their
machines. Some of the trolls who frequent this newsgroup assert this
is absolutely not true. Why those fools even make fun of people who
would even think this. Of course, maybe they'd care to explain how to
get a standard miter gauge into a crapsman miter slot.


AM Wood

A.M. Wood wrote:
Chrisgiraffe wrote:

One particular problem
I have with Craftsman is their rampant use of plastics throughout their
tools, their poor knockoff features and their non-standard designs
(e.g. miter slots, clearance plates, etc.).


Interesting. Cheap toolmakers using non-standard parts in their
machines. Some of the trolls who frequent this newsgroup assert this
is absolutely not true. Why those fools even make fun of people who
would even think this. Of course, maybe they'd care to explain how to
get a standard miter gauge into a crapsman miter slot.


AM Wood

I surely don't want to make fun of you (you might not sell me your
Unisaw for a good price in the near future) but this foolish troll uses
his Steel City/Crapsman miter gauge in Lee Valley tracks
(http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/pa...=3,43576,52799)
which I added to my newly built outfeed table. My miter gauge is 3/4" x
3/8"...same size as the Lee Valley, Woodcraft. etc. miter tracks. Is
the Delta miter gauge not also 3/4 x 3/8? My old Craftsman contractor
saw also had a 3/4 x 3/8 miter. Well, if I'm a non-standard fool I must
be in good company ... might ask Robin Lee why his miter tracks allow
non-standard junk to slide in them.

One of the points I often make about choosing a tool is the availability of
generic accessories - a lesson learned the hard way with the purchase of a
Craftsman Tilt-table Band Saw (actually a gift from my wife) with a
(non-standard) 80" blade (yes, I know one can order blades to fit (at a
premium over stock units, of course))

Now, I tend to shop the accessories for a tool before deciding on the range
of tools to compare and contrast prior to purchase.

But, I will say that the old "Satisfaction guarantee" came in handy on a
number of occasions when a quick jaunt to the store had me back home in an
hour with a new tool or a credit on my Sears card.


"A.M. Wood" wrote in message
oups.com...

Chrisgiraffe wrote:

One particular problem
I have with Craftsman is their rampant use of plastics throughout their
tools, their poor knockoff features and their non-standard designs
(e.g. miter slots, clearance plates, etc.).


Interesting. Cheap toolmakers using non-standard parts in their
machines. Some of the trolls who frequent this newsgroup assert this
is absolutely not true. Why those fools even make fun of people who
would even think this. Of course, maybe they'd care to explain how to
get a standard miter gauge into a crapsman miter slot.


AM Wood

wrote:
A.M. Wood wrote:
Chrisgiraffe wrote:

One particular problem
I have with Craftsman is their rampant use of plastics throughout their
tools, their poor knockoff features and their non-standard designs
(e.g. miter slots, clearance plates, etc.).


Interesting. Cheap toolmakers using non-standard parts in their
machines. Some of the trolls who frequent this newsgroup assert this
is absolutely not true. Why those fools even make fun of people who
would even think this. Of course, maybe they'd care to explain how to
get a standard miter gauge into a crapsman miter slot.


AM Wood

I surely don't want to make fun of you (you might not sell me your
Unisaw for a good price in the near future) but this foolish troll uses
his Steel City/Crapsman miter gauge in Lee Valley tracks
(http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/pa...=3,43576,52799)
which I added to my newly built outfeed table. My miter gauge is 3/4" x
3/8"...same size as the Lee Valley, Woodcraft. etc. miter tracks. Is
the Delta miter gauge not also 3/4 x 3/8? My old Craftsman contractor
saw also had a 3/4 x 3/8 miter. Well, if I'm a non-standard fool I must
be in good company ... might ask Robin Lee why his miter tracks allow
non-standard junk to slide in them.

Glad your miter gauge is 3/4 x 3/8. The chap who wrote the message I
quoted however didn't seem to be as lucky with the slot on his crapsman
saw. He's also neither the first nor the only person to have had this
"issue" with crapsman products. I sure as hell know I had similar
issues with non-standard components on the garbage i purchased from
ryobi.

No need to worry that offending me would in any way influence my
willingness to sell you anything I may have on the market. While I
don't plan on selling the saw any time soon, if I do my only concern is
going to be the color of your money.

Picked up a Delta Heavy Duty shaper last week. Paid $320. Wonder how
much the shiney new stuff comming out of chaiwan is running these days.
Was a tough haul though. Unfortunately there weren't any plastic
parts to lighten the load, just plain old-fashioned steel and cast
iron. Oh well.

AM Wood

On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 18:55:15 -0800, rmeyer1 wrote:

A.M. Wood wrote:
Chrisgiraffe wrote:

One particular problem
I have with Craftsman is their rampant use of plastics throughout their
tools, their poor knockoff features and their non-standard designs
(e.g. miter slots, clearance plates, etc.).


Interesting. Cheap toolmakers using non-standard parts in their
machines. Some of the trolls who frequent this newsgroup assert this
is absolutely not true. Why those fools even make fun of people who
would even think this. Of course, maybe they'd care to explain how to
get a standard miter gauge into a crapsman miter slot.


AM Wood

I surely don't want to make fun of you (you might not sell me your
Unisaw for a good price in the near future) but this foolish troll uses
his Steel City/Crapsman miter gauge in Lee Valley tracks
(http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/pa...=3,43576,52799)
which I added to my newly built outfeed table. My miter gauge is 3/4" x
3/8"...same size as the Lee Valley, Woodcraft. etc. miter tracks. Is
the Delta miter gauge not also 3/4 x 3/8? My old Craftsman contractor
saw also had a 3/4 x 3/8 miter. Well, if I'm a non-standard fool I must
be in good company ... might ask Robin Lee why his miter tracks allow
non-standard junk to slide in them.

I find it interesting that Incra makes their miter gage in the same
nonstandard dimension as the miter slot in my Craftsman band saw. If
Craftsman is the only tool made that Incra accessories will fit, well then
hot damn ah'm gittin' a lot o' Craftsman in the future grin.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"George Max" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 20:24:45 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:




I am not sure about the Delta but many Hybrids require Hybrid Accessories.
Something to think about when buying.


What are you talking about? The first thing I did with my hybrid from
General was buy a JessEm miter gauge. It's works just fine. Nothing
"hybrid" about that miter gauge.

Reread what I said.

"Chrisgiraffe" wrote in message
oups.com...
One more tidbit,
If you're considering a cabinet saw I just came across an outstanding
deal from Steel City. Their model 35601 is currently running on sale
for $899.00!

http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com/pd...ty_fall_us.pdf


Yeah, that is closer to a Hybrid, not a true cabinet saw although it does
set on a cabinet. The 1.75hp motor is the give away and the typical smaller
than normal adjustment wheels for the blade tilt and height adjustment.

On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 05:39:09 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:


"George Max" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 20:24:45 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:




I am not sure about the Delta but many Hybrids require Hybrid Accessories.
Something to think about when buying.


What are you talking about? The first thing I did with my hybrid from
General was buy a JessEm miter gauge. It's works just fine. Nothing
"hybrid" about that miter gauge.

Reread what I said.


I read it. I don't see why any hybrid would require any different
accessories from any other saw, contractor's or cabinet, as you say.

Chrisgiraffe wrote:



As for table saws, I don't think there's anyone here who doesn't think
their brand is the best. I used to own a Craftsman and I believe that
what they market as 'contractor saws' are nothing more than benchtops
in a contractor saw coat. I've got the Delta 36-982 contractor saw
(comes w/ Biesemeyer fence and side extension table). I don't think
anything Craftsman sells holds a candle to it, but, as you see, I have
my preference too.

Yet another person with absolutely NO knowledge of the Craftsman
hybrids.

They are wonderful saws that compete favorably with anything out there.

They are built by Orion, which is composed of former Delta folks.

I believe the only plastic bits on mine are the handwheels and the
motor door.

Check out the 22104,22114 and 22124.

You'll be pleasantly surprised.

Ebay isn't local for all of us. If you can't check out the
item or have to make extensive elaborate arrangements to
ship it, then it's not very helpful.

resrfglc wrote:
I did see several on e-bay right after reading this post:

http://cgi.ebay.com/DELTA-ROCKWELL-1...QQcmdZViewItem