Ridgid power tools now come with a lifetime warranty, including replacement
batteries for cordless tools, if you register your purchase on the Ridgid
website. Nonetheless, at checkout at the local Home Depot, you have the
"opportunity" to buy an extended warranty ($9.99 for a $60 orbital sander,
for example).

Waarranty extended beyond lifetime of the tool? interesting concept --

Regards -- JimR

"JimR" wrote in message
news
Ridgid power tools now come with a lifetime warranty, including
replacement batteries for cordless tools, if you register your purchase on
the Ridgid website. Nonetheless, at checkout at the local Home Depot, you
have the "opportunity" to buy an extended warranty ($9.99 for a $60
orbital sander, for example).



There is a sucker born every few seconds. Some one will buy an extended
warranty.

"Leon" wrote in
. com:


"JimR" wrote in message
news
Ridgid power tools now come with a lifetime warranty, including
replacement batteries for cordless tools, if you register your
purchase on the Ridgid website. Nonetheless, at checkout at the
local Home Depot, you have the "opportunity" to buy an extended
warranty ($9.99 for a $60 orbital sander, for example).



There is a sucker born every few seconds. Some one will buy an
extended warranty.




Especially someone who didn't read the thing about the lifetime warranty.

One computer video card maker did offer a double lifetime warranty,
though. That is, if you bought the card and then sold it the next guy
got a life time warranty also.

Puckdropper
--
www.uncreativelabs.net

Old computers are getting to be a lost art. Here at Uncreative Labs, we
still enjoy using the old computers. Sometimes we want to see how far a
particular system can go, other times we use a stock system to remind
ourselves of what we once had.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

"Leon" wrote in message

There is a sucker born every few seconds. Some one will buy an extended
warranty.

I might just be a scam of some sore, but I can think of several reasons for
an extended warranty. One might be a guaranteed 24 hour replacement or
something like that. It would be a big improvement over sending a defective
tool in and having to wait for repair and return post and could be a
critical option for the professional needing his tools.

Another might be an option to upgrade to a newer model of tool instead of
just repair and return of the old one. How about onsite repair in case of
defect? Very handy for bigger tools. If I thought about it, I'm sure I could
think of a few more possible reasons for an extended warranty. Don't knock
it unless you know exactly what the extended warranty entails.

"Upscale" wrote in message
"Leon" wrote in message

There is a sucker born every few seconds. Some one will buy an extended
warranty.

I might just be a scam of some sore, but I can think of several reasons
for
an extended warranty. One might be a guaranteed 24 hour replacement or
something like that. It would be a big improvement over sending a
defective
tool in and having to wait for repair and return post and could be a
critical option for the professional needing his tools.

Another might be an option to upgrade to a newer model of tool instead of
just repair and return of the old one. How about onsite repair in case of
defect? Very handy for bigger tools. If I thought about it, I'm sure I
could
think of a few more possible reasons for an extended warranty. Don't knock
it unless you know exactly what the extended warranty entails.

You just have to pay close attention to what you're getting.

Under many "extended" warranties, should you have a problem while the item
is still under the "manufacturers" warranty, and should you happen to
attempt to invoke the "extended" warranty by accidentally calling the wrong
party, you will be refused and the extended warranty will no longer be valid
for that particular problem.

This happened to me a couple of years ago with a computer monitor that went
out on the 364th day of the manufacturer's warranty, a Friday, and I
inadvertently, not remembering the exact day of purchase, called the wrong
party. They did not get back to me until the next working day, at which
point both invoked the fine print and neither wanted to repair/replace it.

... well, they attempted to, and would have, had they been dealing with a
pussy.

That said, we always purchase extended warranties on appliances put in new
homes because it is often past the manufacturer's warranty when the house is
sold and the appliance put into use. I am beginning to think, that with all
the shoddy goods out there, an extended warranty ain't such a bad idea in
some cases.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/6/06

"Upscale" wrote in message
...

"Leon" wrote in message

There is a sucker born every few seconds. Some one will buy an extended
warranty.

I might just be a scam of some sore, but I can think of several reasons
for
an extended warranty. One might be a guaranteed 24 hour replacement or
something like that. It would be a big improvement over sending a
defective
tool in and having to wait for repair and return post and could be a
critical option for the professional needing his tools.

Another might be an option to upgrade to a newer model of tool instead of
just repair and return of the old one. How about onsite repair in case of
defect? Very handy for bigger tools. If I thought about it, I'm sure I
could
think of a few more possible reasons for an extended warranty. Don't knock
it unless you know exactly what the extended warranty entails.

Good points however the typical extended warranty literature is quite vague
as what it covers and the salesman will almost always tell you it will even
cover the Earth being hit by Mars. All you gotta do is call this 1-800
number and ....unfortunately you learn then what it really covers, in many
cases. Also most all of these warranties go in to effect after the
original warranty expires. But to reiterate what you said, when the
extended warranty improves upon the original warranty from day one they can
be of benefit. As an example, I bought my son a Dell laptop for college. I
went through the school links to get to the Dell site and added the 4 year
extended warranty that includes faster service and accidental breakage. The
warranty cost about $500 extra but going through the school I ended up with
$600 in discounts plus a $200 rebate. The advantage as you stated was that
when the hard drive failed the computer was up and running in less than 24
hours and we had a more direct phone number to call to get warranty
assistance with out having to wait on hold for more than 3 or 4 minutes.

"Swingman" wrote in message

That said, we always purchase extended warranties on appliances put in new
homes because it is often past the manufacturer's warranty when the house
is
sold and the appliance put into use. I am beginning to think, that with
all
the shoddy goods out there, an extended warranty ain't such a bad idea in
some cases.

Using your mention of appliances, I frequently buy an extended warranty,
especially something has electronic circuitry ~ and what doesn't these days?
Some 30 years ago an appliance came with 3, 5, 10 and sometimes longer
warranty. These days, most come with a one year warranty. Recently, I've
been pricing an electric, broiler/convection smooth top, energy smart range
for my kitchen. $2000+ CA for it. It only comes with a one year warranty and
due to the fact that it's composed in large part of electronic circuitry,
all it takes is for one tiny component to fry and put the entire appliance
out of service.

Analogue based products lasted for years. Case in point, the electric stove
I've used for the past 17 years and the same one my mother used for 30 years
before I got my hands on it. Before they used to repair products, now they
just pop in an entirely new module. Not worth the labour to repair most
stuff these days, if it they could be repaired at all. This great electronic
information age we're in, it can be very convenient, but we're certainly
paying through the nose for that convenience.

"Swingman" wrote in message
...

You just have to pay close attention to what you're getting.

Ecaxtly. I have to be leary of the generic ones sold by the cashier at the
cash register who may or may not enen know what you are purchasing. :~)
Take Best Buy for example. I dont need an extended warranty on that CD I am
purchasing.

Snip

This happened to me a couple of years ago with a computer monitor that
went
out on the 364th day of the manufacturer's warranty, a Friday, and I
inadvertently, not remembering the exact day of purchase, called the wrong
party. They did not get back to me until the next working day, at which
point both invoked the fine print and neither wanted to repair/replace it.

... well, they attempted to, and would have, had they been dealing with a
pussy.

Was that when you put your wife on the phone to wear them down. LOL. With
all due respect for you and your wife I am only saying this because of your
comments about her and how she gets the situation handled. ;~)
For others reading this, Swingman's wife is a true "Good Luck Charm" great
to have around when trying to resolve a problem or smply to have around when
trying to find a close parking place.

That said, we always purchase extended warranties on appliances put in new
homes because it is often past the manufacturer's warranty when the house
is
sold and the appliance put into use. I am beginning to think, that with
all
the shoddy goods out there, an extended warranty ain't such a bad idea in
some cases.

I feel they are good when the repairs will cost you while still trying to
finish paying for a particular purchase like a car or in instances like you
have mentioned or.... when you need faster than normal warranty service.

On Mon, 05 Jun 2006 02:22:13 GMT, "JimR" wrote:

Ridgid power tools now come with a lifetime warranty, including replacement
batteries for cordless tools, if you register your purchase on the Ridgid
website. Nonetheless, at checkout at the local Home Depot, you have the
"opportunity" to buy an extended warranty ($9.99 for a $60 orbital sander,
for example).

Waarranty extended beyond lifetime of the tool? interesting concept --

Regards -- JimR

My question is usually something like "Who's lifetime, mine or the tools?"

Mac

https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

JimR wrote:
Ridgid power tools now come with a lifetime warranty, including
replacement batteries for cordless tools, if you register your
purchase on the Ridgid website. Nonetheless, at checkout at the
local Home Depot, you have the "opportunity" to buy an extended
warranty ($9.99 for a $60 orbital sander, for example).

Waarranty extended beyond lifetime of the tool? interesting concept

One could pay with MasterCard too...they double the seller's warranty so
you'd get *TWO* lifetimes and could pass it down to your kid.

Seriously, the MC extended warranty has save my ass at least twice with HD
drives that died just after the manufacturer's warranty period expired.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"Leon" wrote in message

Was that when you put your wife on the phone to wear them down. LOL.
With
all due respect for you and your wife I am only saying this because of
your
comments about her and how she gets the situation handled. ;~)
For others reading this, Swingman's wife is a true "Good Luck Charm" great
to have around when trying to resolve a problem or smply to have around
when
trying to find a close parking place.

LOL ... no, in this particular case I held her in reserve in the event I
wasn't successful. No need to use a nuclear option when high explosives will
suffice.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/6/06

In article ,
Leon wrote:
...previous quote snipped...

...snipped...
.... As an example, I bought my son a Dell laptop for college. I
went through the school links to get to the Dell site and added the 4 year
extended warranty that includes faster service and accidental breakage. The
warranty cost about $500 extra but going through the school I ended up with
$600 in discounts plus a $200 rebate. The advantage as you stated was that
when the hard drive failed the computer was up and running in less than 24
hours and we had a more direct phone number to call to get warranty
assistance with out having to wait on hold for more than 3 or 4 minutes.



For $500 you could have bought several laptop hard drives, and they
are generally even easier to install than in a desktop or tower
system. Did the extended warranty include data recovery, or just parts
& labor?



--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland

wrote in message
when the hard drive failed the computer was up and running in less than
24
hours and we had a more direct phone number to call to get warranty
assistance with out having to wait on hold for more than 3 or 4 minutes.

For $500 you could have bought several laptop hard drives, and they
are generally even easier to install than in a desktop or tower

Not necessarily. He didn't say that it was a removable hard drive. It may
well have been an internal one. I'm not familiar with Dell as a user, but I
also suspect that their drives may be equipped with a semi-proprietary OS
that recognizes only their own hardware fully. In a case like that, some off
the shelf drive would be mostly useless. It's also possible that some OEM
drive could also void all warranty of any type.

system. Did the extended warranty include data recovery, or just parts
& labor?

I've never heard of any retail warranty that includes data recovery and most
certainly, no $500 warranty of *any type* is going to include data recovery
costs other than an OS recovery CD. If you consider that every user
experiences a hard drive crash at one time or another, Dell would have been
out of business a long time ago if they included Data recovery for the
relatively paltry sum of $500. Data recovery costs thousands of dollars in
time and labour.

First we start with the realization that many electronic retailers make
more percentage profit when selling the extended warranties than they
do on the items themselves. They are great little earners for the
borgs.

FoggyTown

Upscale wrote:


wrote in message
when the hard drive failed the computer was up and running in less than
24
hours and we had a more direct phone number to call to get warranty
assistance with out having to wait on hold for more than 3 or 4 minutes.

For $500 you could have bought several laptop hard drives, and they
are generally even easier to install than in a desktop or tower

Not necessarily. He didn't say that it was a removable hard drive. It may
well have been an internal one.

And this is an issue because? You can buy a kit specifically for the
purpose of upgrading internal laptop hard disks at Best Buy for under $200,
including the disk.

I'm not familiar with Dell as a user, but
I also suspect that their drives may be equipped with a semi-proprietary
OS that recognizes only their own hardware fully.

Then use a non-semi-proprietary OS that recognizes all hardware fully. XP
Pro full boat retail costs 300 bucks, and nobody in his right mind pays
list for it. You're out the door for 500, worst-case, which is the same as
the cost of the extended warranty. Since you're buying a drive anyway you
qualify for OEM pricing, so that's more like $150 for the OS.

In a case like that,
some off the shelf drive would be mostly useless. It's also possible that
some OEM drive could also void all warranty of any type.

Outside the US, perhaps. United States Code, Title 15, Chapter 501, Section
2302, starting at paragraph (c), states:

"(c) No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied
warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such
product, any article or service (other than article or service provided
without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by
brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this
subsection may be waived by the Commission if -
(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will
function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in
connection with the warranted product and
(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest."

system. Did the extended warranty include data recovery, or just parts
& labor?

I've never heard of any retail warranty that includes data recovery and
most certainly, no $500 warranty of *any type* is going to include data
recovery costs other than an OS recovery CD. If you consider that every
user experiences a hard drive crash at one time or another,

How many experience one on a machine under warranty? The extended warranty
doesn't last forever you know, and it only covers the one machine.

Dell would
have been out of business a long time ago if they included Data recovery
for the relatively paltry sum of $500. Data recovery costs thousands of
dollars in time and labour.

And if one out of ten machines needs data recovery they can spend 5000 bucks
on the recovery and still break even. If you check pricing, you'll find
that 5000 bucks is at the high end of what a single-drive standard-priority
data recovery will cost. For 500 bucks on a typical laptop I'd expect
something beyond replacing the drive. Now if it also includes
broken-screen coverage it's probably reasonable.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"J. Clarke" wrote in message

And this is an issue because? You can buy a kit specifically for the
purpose of upgrading internal laptop hard disks at Best Buy for under
$200,
including the disk.

And most likely void any existing warranty? Try again.

Then use a non-semi-proprietary OS that recognizes all hardware fully. XP
Pro full boat retail costs 300 bucks, and nobody in his right mind pays
list for it. You're out the door for 500, worst-case, which is the same
as
the cost of the extended warranty. Since you're buying a drive anyway you
qualify for OEM pricing, so that's more like $150 for the OS.

Doesn't work that way. I put in a number of years doing technical support
for IBM in their Thinkpad department. Even though it was Windows OS, some of
the hardware at IBM is always proprietary (including hard drives) as are
changes to the OS in contract with Microsoft. Dell is exactly the same.
There aren't any other OS' with all the proper drivers. That among other
reasons are why companies like IBM and DELL are able to stay in business, at
least in this particular type of computer section. In most repects, you're
forced to buy their products to keep something working properly.

Outside the US, perhaps. United States Code, Title 15, Chapter 501,
Section
2302, starting at paragraph (c), states:

rest snipped
Try investigating a little more. When I worked Thinkpad, it was technical
support for the continental USA. Not Canada, not overseas, just the USA. The
OS as I stated above, had plenty of proprietary code in it. You quote all
the legal rhetoric you want, but my experience tells me what *was*, not what
you've read that it should be.

And if one out of ten machines needs data recovery they can spend 5000
bucks
on the recovery and still break even. If you check pricing, you'll find
that 5000 bucks is at the high end of what a single-drive
standard-priority
data recovery will cost. For 500 bucks on a typical laptop I'd expect
something beyond replacing the drive.

And you'd be very, very wrong. Try calling a professional data recovery
centre and ask them about charges for an entire hard drive ~ even a
relatively small one, say a forty gigger. Ask them what it would cost and
come back here to tell me that I'm wrong. I challenge you to ask around and
find ONE person has has demanded and received data recovery for any reason!
Not the reloading of the OS, but the recovery of personally loaded
information.

Now if it also includes broken-screen coverage it's probably reasonable.

Not a chance in hell. Sorry, but you're delusional if you think that
*ANYBODY* is going to offer information recovery on a retail purchase. It
would set a very dangerous and costly precedent and then everybody would
demand it. I've had salesmen screaming their heads off that they're going to
sue IBM for everything they've got. Not once did we ever pay for data
recovery. Warranties are limited to replacement of hardware, not to any type
of information that's been loaded or saved by the user. It's the user's
responsibility to back up any personal information in case of drive failure.
Just the fact that you're suggesting it tells me you have absolutely no
experience in this area.

A great many users of Thinkpads are sales people, business people and the
working person. Although prices have come down in recent years, the higher
end laptops are greatly purchased by professionals, the ones that can afford
to spend that kind of money. Everyday, I had people calling for a
walkthrough with the recovery CD. How many experience the loss of the OS at
one time or another? I'd guestimate at better than 50%. It happens to
everybody at one time or another. Everybody loads programs that aren't
supported by the manufacturer, programs that screw up some settings or they
get a virus or whatever, it happens to everyone.

I suspect that you're going to try to tell me that it's Dell laptops we're
talking about, not Thinkpads, but it's the same industry, just a different
name. Like I said, you call one or two data recovery centres and then tell
me what they told you. I'll take you at your word.

"Upscale" wrote in message
...
"J. Clarke" wrote in message

And this is an issue because? You can buy a kit specifically for the
purpose of upgrading internal laptop hard disks at Best Buy for under
$200,
including the disk.

And most likely void any existing warranty? Try again.

Then use a non-semi-proprietary OS that recognizes all hardware fully.
XP
Pro full boat retail costs 300 bucks, and nobody in his right mind pays
list for it. You're out the door for 500, worst-case, which is the same
as
the cost of the extended warranty. Since you're buying a drive anyway
you
qualify for OEM pricing, so that's more like $150 for the OS.

Doesn't work that way. I put in a number of years doing technical support
for IBM in their Thinkpad department. Even though it was Windows OS, some
of
the hardware at IBM is always proprietary (including hard drives) as are
changes to the OS in contract with Microsoft. Dell is exactly the same.
There aren't any other OS' with all the proper drivers. That among other
reasons are why companies like IBM and DELL are able to stay in business,
at
least in this particular type of computer section. In most repects, you're
forced to buy their products to keep something working properly.

Outside the US, perhaps. United States Code, Title 15, Chapter 501,
Section
2302, starting at paragraph (c), states:

rest snipped
Try investigating a little more. When I worked Thinkpad, it was technical
support for the continental USA. Not Canada, not overseas, just the USA.
The
OS as I stated above, had plenty of proprietary code in it. You quote all
the legal rhetoric you want, but my experience tells me what *was*, not
what
you've read that it should be.

And if one out of ten machines needs data recovery they can spend 5000
bucks
on the recovery and still break even. If you check pricing, you'll find
that 5000 bucks is at the high end of what a single-drive
standard-priority
data recovery will cost. For 500 bucks on a typical laptop I'd expect
something beyond replacing the drive.

And you'd be very, very wrong. Try calling a professional data recovery
centre and ask them about charges for an entire hard drive ~ even a
relatively small one, say a forty gigger. Ask them what it would cost and
come back here to tell me that I'm wrong. I challenge you to ask around
and
find ONE person has has demanded and received data recovery for any
reason!
Not the reloading of the OS, but the recovery of personally loaded
information.

Now if it also includes broken-screen coverage it's probably reasonable.

Not a chance in hell. Sorry, but you're delusional if you think that
*ANYBODY* is going to offer information recovery on a retail purchase. It
would set a very dangerous and costly precedent and then everybody would
demand it. I've had salesmen screaming their heads off that they're going
to
sue IBM for everything they've got. Not once did we ever pay for data
recovery. Warranties are limited to replacement of hardware, not to any
type
of information that's been loaded or saved by the user. It's the user's
responsibility to back up any personal information in case of drive
failure.
Just the fact that you're suggesting it tells me you have absolutely no
experience in this area.

A great many users of Thinkpads are sales people, business people and the
working person. Although prices have come down in recent years, the higher
end laptops are greatly purchased by professionals, the ones that can
afford
to spend that kind of money. Everyday, I had people calling for a
walkthrough with the recovery CD. How many experience the loss of the OS
at
one time or another? I'd guestimate at better than 50%. It happens to
everybody at one time or another. Everybody loads programs that aren't
supported by the manufacturer, programs that screw up some settings or
they
get a virus or whatever, it happens to everyone.

I suspect that you're going to try to tell me that it's Dell laptops we're
talking about, not Thinkpads, but it's the same industry, just a different
name. Like I said, you call one or two data recovery centres and then tell
me what they told you. I'll take you at your word.



I was going the data recover route once and your right. It was going to cost
right at 4 grand and then no guarantee that they could fully recover the
data. I don't remember the name of the place, but it was out in Denver. I
had some data on my Dell that I really needed, but not to the tune of 4
grand. And being a crap shoot on top of that??? Dell laughed at me when I
asked them about recovery.

wrote in message
...
For $500 you could have bought several laptop hard drives, and they
are generally even easier to install than in a desktop or tower
system. Did the extended warranty include data recovery, or just parts
& labor?

The $500 bought the better extended warranty plus it included a $200 rebate,
and 20% discount on the whole order. In addition it bumped the initial
purchase price of just the computer up to $2300 before any discounts which
qualified my purchase for an additional $200 discount for going past $2000
on the order.
Basically getting the big extended warranty got me a package deal that I was
going to spend extra money on any way. We got an 80 gig HD over the 40 gig
standard, DVD burner over the CD, wide screen display, 512 mem over 256,
Blue Tooth and the better of the 3 offered wirelesses options offered, 3
year virus protection, an Argus back pack that holds a ton of books if
wanted and the computer, an extra 50% larger lithium ion battery. XP pro, P4
processor, Centreno Technology, 4 years next business day repairs and
accidental breakage and all delivered free.

While that still may sound expensive we were able to get the computer and
all the extras delivered including tax for $1595. With out the extended 4
year contract that initially added $500, the computer would have been about
$1480 with the school discount. Pricing Compaq, HP, Fujitsu, Toshiba and
Sony, the closest competitor was HP at $1550 with a shorter extended
contract with less coverage, smaller HD, less memory, regular screen, and no
back pack.
I was going for the HP with less features and with a 3rd party warranty for
3 years with out accidental breakage until I found out about the school link
to Dell.

I used every scenario to try to get the price lower with out the 4 year
extended warranty, but when it qualified me for more discounts which got me
better features and ultimately only cost about $115 more it became a no
brainer. I went through the regular links to buy the computer from Dell and
the cost was $400 more for the exact same order. Going through the school
the total discount was $800, $400 more than not going through the school
link.

No, data recovery was included however he backs up to a flash drive and had
it all there to begin with. Reinstalling the OS and software took about 3
hours whether he did it or the technician did it. Dell walked him through
it.

"Upscale" wrote in message
...


Not necessarily. He didn't say that it was a removable hard drive. It may
well have been an internal one. I'm not familiar with Dell as a user, but
I
also suspect that their drives may be equipped with a semi-proprietary OS
that recognizes only their own hardware fully. In a case like that, some
off
the shelf drive would be mostly useless. It's also possible that some OEM
drive could also void all warranty of any type.

The HD has 2 exposed external screws to remove and the drive slides right
out. A 2 minute swap out. The big advantage of the $500 extended watrranty
was the BIG additional discounts and rebated it qualified my order for.
Ultimately the extended warranty cost about $115 over no extended warranty
and I doubt you can buy any laptop 80 gig HD for that price delivered to
your door step next day.

"foggytown" wrote in message
oups.com...

First we start with the realization that many electronic retailers make
more percentage profit when selling the extended warranties than they
do on the items themselves. They are great little earners for the
borgs.

FoggyTown


All extended warranty contracts make the retailers money. If they didn't
they would not be offered. Its a gamble that the consumer takes and
normally comes out on the short end of the stick on. In my case the
additional cost of the contract included 3 years virus protection and deep
additional discounts that probably came closer to Dell employee pricing than
any other deal.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...

And this is an issue because? You can buy a kit specifically for the
purpose of upgrading internal laptop hard disks at Best Buy for under
$200,
including the disk.

Ultimately the $500 warranty got me $385 in additional discounts and and 3
years of antivirus protection which I would buy anyway, The real cost of
the warranty was $115 after comparing the exact same purchase with out
adding the 4 year extended warranty.

Leon wrote:


"Upscale" wrote in message
...


Not necessarily. He didn't say that it was a removable hard drive. It may
well have been an internal one. I'm not familiar with Dell as a user, but
I
also suspect that their drives may be equipped with a semi-proprietary OS
that recognizes only their own hardware fully. In a case like that, some
off
the shelf drive would be mostly useless. It's also possible that some OEM
drive could also void all warranty of any type.

The HD has 2 exposed external screws to remove and the drive slides right
out. A 2 minute swap out. The big advantage of the $500 extended
watrranty was the BIG additional discounts and rebated it qualified my
order for. Ultimately the extended warranty cost about $115 over no
extended warranty and I doubt you can buy any laptop 80 gig HD for that
price delivered to your door step next day.

Not meaning to be nitpicky but the Newegg price for an 80 gig Hitachi
Fedexed overnight is $103.02. Where I live UPS ground is usually overnight
from them so my price would be under $90.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Upscale wrote:

"J. Clarke" wrote in message

And this is an issue because? You can buy a kit specifically for the
purpose of upgrading internal laptop hard disks at Best Buy for under
$200,
including the disk.

And most likely void any existing warranty? Try again.

Then use a non-semi-proprietary OS that recognizes all hardware fully.
XP Pro full boat retail costs 300 bucks, and nobody in his right mind
pays
list for it. You're out the door for 500, worst-case, which is the same
as
the cost of the extended warranty. Since you're buying a drive anyway
you qualify for OEM pricing, so that's more like $150 for the OS.

Doesn't work that way. I put in a number of years doing technical support
for IBM in their Thinkpad department. Even though it was Windows OS, some
of the hardware at IBM is always proprietary (including hard drives) as
are changes to the OS in contract with Microsoft. Dell is exactly the
same. There aren't any other OS' with all the proper drivers. That among
other reasons are why companies like IBM and DELL are able to stay in
business, at least in this particular type of computer section. In most
repects, you're forced to buy their products to keep something working
properly.

You worked Thinkpad support and yet you are not aware that IBM Internet site
provides detailed instructions on the procedures to be used to install
non-IBM-provided Windows on Thinkpads? You just blew your cred there.

Outside the US, perhaps. United States Code, Title 15, Chapter 501,
Section
2302, starting at paragraph (c), states:

rest snipped
Try investigating a little more. When I worked Thinkpad, it was technical
support for the continental USA. Not Canada, not overseas, just the USA.
The OS as I stated above, had plenty of proprietary code in it.

So what?

You quote
all the legal rhetoric you want, but my experience tells me what *was*,
not what you've read that it should be.

Which has exactly what to do with the illegality of voiding warranties due
to the installation of third-party components?

And if one out of ten machines needs data recovery they can spend 5000
bucks
on the recovery and still break even. If you check pricing, you'll find
that 5000 bucks is at the high end of what a single-drive
standard-priority
data recovery will cost. For 500 bucks on a typical laptop I'd expect
something beyond replacing the drive.

And you'd be very, very wrong. Try calling a professional data recovery
centre and ask them about charges for an entire hard drive ~ even a
relatively small one, say a forty gigger. Ask them what it would cost and
come back here to tell me that I'm wrong.

Already did. About 1500 bucks.

I challenge you to ask around
and find ONE person has has demanded and received data recovery for any
reason! Not the reloading of the OS, but the recovery of personally loaded
information.

Well, just about anybody who had certain models of Fujitsu drive and felt
like collecting for openers.

Now if it also includes broken-screen coverage it's probably reasonable.

Not a chance in hell. Sorry, but you're delusional if you think that
*ANYBODY* is going to offer information recovery on a retail purchase. It
would set a very dangerous and costly precedent and then everybody would
demand it. I've had salesmen screaming their heads off that they're going
to sue IBM for everything they've got. Not once did we ever pay for data
recovery. Warranties are limited to replacement of hardware, not to any
type of information that's been loaded or saved by the user. It's the
user's responsibility to back up any personal information in case of drive
failure. Just the fact that you're suggesting it tells me you have
absolutely no experience in this area.

We aren't talking about the warranty that comes with the box, we are talking
about an additional warranty purchased at extra cost. Do strive to pay
attention.

A great many users of Thinkpads are sales people, business people and the
working person. Although prices have come down in recent years, the higher
end laptops are greatly purchased by professionals, the ones that can
afford to spend that kind of money. Everyday, I had people calling for a
walkthrough with the recovery CD. How many experience the loss of the OS
at one time or another? I'd guestimate at better than 50%.

Which has exactly what to do with disk failure?

It happens to
everybody at one time or another. Everybody loads programs that aren't
supported by the manufacturer, programs that screw up some settings or
they get a virus or whatever, it happens to everyone.

I suspect that you're going to try to tell me that it's Dell laptops we're
talking about, not Thinkpads, but it's the same industry, just a different
name. Like I said, you call one or two data recovery centres and then tell
me what they told you. I'll take you at your word.

In the post to which you are responding I addressed this point. But you
conveniently snipped that part.

And why is it that you no longer work in Thinkpad Support? Were you excess
to Lenovo's requirements?

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Tim Taylor wrote:


"Upscale" wrote in message
...
"J. Clarke" wrote in message

And this is an issue because? You can buy a kit specifically for the
purpose of upgrading internal laptop hard disks at Best Buy for under
$200,
including the disk.

And most likely void any existing warranty? Try again.

Then use a non-semi-proprietary OS that recognizes all hardware fully.
XP
Pro full boat retail costs 300 bucks, and nobody in his right mind pays
list for it. You're out the door for 500, worst-case, which is the same
as
the cost of the extended warranty. Since you're buying a drive anyway
you
qualify for OEM pricing, so that's more like $150 for the OS.

Doesn't work that way. I put in a number of years doing technical support
for IBM in their Thinkpad department. Even though it was Windows OS, some
of
the hardware at IBM is always proprietary (including hard drives) as are
changes to the OS in contract with Microsoft. Dell is exactly the same.
There aren't any other OS' with all the proper drivers. That among other
reasons are why companies like IBM and DELL are able to stay in business,
at
least in this particular type of computer section. In most repects,
you're forced to buy their products to keep something working properly.

Outside the US, perhaps. United States Code, Title 15, Chapter 501,
Section
2302, starting at paragraph (c), states:

rest snipped
Try investigating a little more. When I worked Thinkpad, it was technical
support for the continental USA. Not Canada, not overseas, just the USA.
The
OS as I stated above, had plenty of proprietary code in it. You quote all
the legal rhetoric you want, but my experience tells me what *was*, not
what
you've read that it should be.

And if one out of ten machines needs data recovery they can spend 5000
bucks
on the recovery and still break even. If you check pricing, you'll find
that 5000 bucks is at the high end of what a single-drive
standard-priority
data recovery will cost. For 500 bucks on a typical laptop I'd expect
something beyond replacing the drive.

And you'd be very, very wrong. Try calling a professional data recovery
centre and ask them about charges for an entire hard drive ~ even a
relatively small one, say a forty gigger. Ask them what it would cost and
come back here to tell me that I'm wrong. I challenge you to ask around
and
find ONE person has has demanded and received data recovery for any
reason!
Not the reloading of the OS, but the recovery of personally loaded
information.

Now if it also includes broken-screen coverage it's probably reasonable.

Not a chance in hell. Sorry, but you're delusional if you think that
*ANYBODY* is going to offer information recovery on a retail purchase. It
would set a very dangerous and costly precedent and then everybody would
demand it. I've had salesmen screaming their heads off that they're going
to
sue IBM for everything they've got. Not once did we ever pay for data
recovery. Warranties are limited to replacement of hardware, not to any
type
of information that's been loaded or saved by the user. It's the user's
responsibility to back up any personal information in case of drive
failure.
Just the fact that you're suggesting it tells me you have absolutely no
experience in this area.

A great many users of Thinkpads are sales people, business people and the
working person. Although prices have come down in recent years, the
higher end laptops are greatly purchased by professionals, the ones that
can afford
to spend that kind of money. Everyday, I had people calling for a
walkthrough with the recovery CD. How many experience the loss of the OS
at
one time or another? I'd guestimate at better than 50%. It happens to
everybody at one time or another. Everybody loads programs that aren't
supported by the manufacturer, programs that screw up some settings or
they
get a virus or whatever, it happens to everyone.

I suspect that you're going to try to tell me that it's Dell laptops
we're talking about, not Thinkpads, but it's the same industry, just a
different name. Like I said, you call one or two data recovery centres
and then tell me what they told you. I'll take you at your word.



I was going the data recover route once and your right. It was going to
cost right at 4 grand and then no guarantee that they could fully recover
the data.

There's never a guarantee. But what does it costing 4 grand have to do with
anything? Are you saying that the failure rate on Dell drives is in excess
of 10 percent?

I don't remember the name of the place, but it was out in
Denver. I had some data on my Dell that I really needed, but not to the
tune of 4 grand. And being a crap shoot on top of that??? Dell laughed at
me when I asked them about recovery.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"Leon" wrote in message

be of benefit. As an example, I bought my son a Dell laptop for college.
I
went through the school links to get to the Dell site and added the 4 year
extended warranty that includes faster service and accidental breakage.
The
warranty cost about $500 extra but going through the school I ended up
with
$600 in discounts plus a $200 rebate. The advantage as you stated was
that
when the hard drive failed the computer was up and running in less than 24
hours and we had a more direct phone number to call to get warranty
assistance with out having to wait on hold for more than 3 or 4 minutes.

IMO, that was a smart move. I did the same thing for my youngster's Dell
when going off to college, including the insurance for dorm room disasters.
After two and half years, so far so good.

Like most policies of any type, if you have it, you won't need it, and vice
versa.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/6/06

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...

Not meaning to be nitpicky but the Newegg price for an 80 gig Hitachi
Fedexed overnight is $103.02. Where I live UPS ground is usually
overnight
from them so my price would be under $90.


Would that HD $103 HD warrant and cover the entire computer against defects
including owner fault breakage for another 3 years and 8 months? I am still
covered and discounting the $103 HD from the ultimate $115 for the 4 year
extended contract the remainder of the warranty has cost me $12.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...

Not meaning to be nitpicky but the Newegg price for an 80 gig Hitachi
Fedexed overnight is $103.02. Where I live UPS ground is usually
overnight
from them so my price would be under $90.


BTY take a look again at NewEgg. The 80 gig HD I upgraded to over the 40
gig spins at 7200.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
And you'd be very, very wrong. Try calling a professional data recovery
centre and ask them about charges for an entire hard drive ~ even a
relatively small one, say a forty gigger. Ask them what it would cost
and
come back here to tell me that I'm wrong.

Already did. About 1500 bucks.

Really? How about giving me the name of the company and their phone number
so I can verify that price.

And just as an aside, how does the amount of $1500 back up your claim that
an extended warranty of $500 that Leon paid should include hard drive
replacement *and* data recovery. Right away, it's obvious that it would
never be profitable or meet a break even level for any company to offer
recovery service with their computers.

But, forget that. Give me the name and phone number of the data recovery
company you called. I'd like to hear what they have to say.

Upscale wrote:

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
And you'd be very, very wrong. Try calling a professional data recovery
centre and ask them about charges for an entire hard drive ~ even a
relatively small one, say a forty gigger. Ask them what it would cost
and
come back here to tell me that I'm wrong.

Already did. About 1500 bucks.

Really? How about giving me the name of the company and their phone number
so I can verify that price.

Google "data recovery" and you'll find several services that offer recovery
in that range.

And just as an aside, how does the amount of $1500 back up your claim that
an extended warranty of $500 that Leon paid should include hard drive
replacement *and* data recovery. Right away, it's obvious that it would
never be profitable or meet a break even level for any company to offer
recovery service with their computers.

You don't have a clue how insurance works, do you?

But, forget that. Give me the name and phone number of the data recovery
company you called. I'd like to hear what they have to say.

Like I said, there are several with pricing in that range.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Leon wrote:


"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...

Not meaning to be nitpicky but the Newegg price for an 80 gig Hitachi
Fedexed overnight is $103.02. Where I live UPS ground is usually
overnight
from them so my price would be under $90.


Would that HD $103 HD warrant and cover the entire computer against
defects
including owner fault breakage for another 3 years and 8 months? I am
still covered and discounting the $103 HD from the ultimate $115 for the 4
year extended contract the remainder of the warranty has cost me $12.

Now, let's see if you use it again.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Tim Taylor wrote:


"Upscale" wrote in message
...
"J. Clarke" wrote in message

And this is an issue because? You can buy a kit specifically for the
purpose of upgrading internal laptop hard disks at Best Buy for under
$200,
including the disk.

And most likely void any existing warranty? Try again.

Then use a non-semi-proprietary OS that recognizes all hardware fully.
XP
Pro full boat retail costs 300 bucks, and nobody in his right mind pays
list for it. You're out the door for 500, worst-case, which is the
same
as
the cost of the extended warranty. Since you're buying a drive anyway
you
qualify for OEM pricing, so that's more like $150 for the OS.

Doesn't work that way. I put in a number of years doing technical
support
for IBM in their Thinkpad department. Even though it was Windows OS,
some
of
the hardware at IBM is always proprietary (including hard drives) as are
changes to the OS in contract with Microsoft. Dell is exactly the same.
There aren't any other OS' with all the proper drivers. That among other
reasons are why companies like IBM and DELL are able to stay in
business,
at
least in this particular type of computer section. In most repects,
you're forced to buy their products to keep something working properly.

Outside the US, perhaps. United States Code, Title 15, Chapter 501,
Section
2302, starting at paragraph (c), states:

rest snipped
Try investigating a little more. When I worked Thinkpad, it was
technical
support for the continental USA. Not Canada, not overseas, just the USA.
The
OS as I stated above, had plenty of proprietary code in it. You quote
all
the legal rhetoric you want, but my experience tells me what *was*, not
what
you've read that it should be.

And if one out of ten machines needs data recovery they can spend 5000
bucks
on the recovery and still break even. If you check pricing, you'll
find
that 5000 bucks is at the high end of what a single-drive
standard-priority
data recovery will cost. For 500 bucks on a typical laptop I'd expect
something beyond replacing the drive.

And you'd be very, very wrong. Try calling a professional data recovery
centre and ask them about charges for an entire hard drive ~ even a
relatively small one, say a forty gigger. Ask them what it would cost
and
come back here to tell me that I'm wrong. I challenge you to ask around
and
find ONE person has has demanded and received data recovery for any
reason!
Not the reloading of the OS, but the recovery of personally loaded
information.

Now if it also includes broken-screen coverage it's probably
reasonable.

Not a chance in hell. Sorry, but you're delusional if you think that
*ANYBODY* is going to offer information recovery on a retail purchase.
It
would set a very dangerous and costly precedent and then everybody would
demand it. I've had salesmen screaming their heads off that they're
going
to
sue IBM for everything they've got. Not once did we ever pay for data
recovery. Warranties are limited to replacement of hardware, not to any
type
of information that's been loaded or saved by the user. It's the user's
responsibility to back up any personal information in case of drive
failure.
Just the fact that you're suggesting it tells me you have absolutely no
experience in this area.

A great many users of Thinkpads are sales people, business people and
the
working person. Although prices have come down in recent years, the
higher end laptops are greatly purchased by professionals, the ones that
can afford
to spend that kind of money. Everyday, I had people calling for a
walkthrough with the recovery CD. How many experience the loss of the OS
at
one time or another? I'd guestimate at better than 50%. It happens to
everybody at one time or another. Everybody loads programs that aren't
supported by the manufacturer, programs that screw up some settings or
they
get a virus or whatever, it happens to everyone.

I suspect that you're going to try to tell me that it's Dell laptops
we're talking about, not Thinkpads, but it's the same industry, just a
different name. Like I said, you call one or two data recovery centres
and then tell me what they told you. I'll take you at your word.



I was going the data recover route once and your right. It was going to
cost right at 4 grand and then no guarantee that they could fully recover
the data.

There's never a guarantee. But what does it costing 4 grand have to do
with
anything? Are you saying that the failure rate on Dell drives is in
excess
of 10 percent?

I don't remember the name of the place, but it was out in
Denver. I had some data on my Dell that I really needed, but not to the
tune of 4 grand. And being a crap shoot on top of that??? Dell laughed at
me when I asked them about recovery.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

No, I'm not saying anything about the failure rates, but the way I was
reading it, the extra 500 bucks warranty you, or somebody, was talking about
should have included recover. I may be wrong. I've got nothing against Dell,
but I didn't buy another one when that one took a dump. I can get crappy
support from any of them. Backing out now.

JimR wrote:
Ridgid power tools now come with a lifetime warranty, including replacement
batteries for cordless tools, if you register your purchase on the Ridgid
website. Nonetheless, at checkout at the local Home Depot, you have the
"opportunity" to buy an extended warranty ($9.99 for a $60 orbital sander,
for example).

Waarranty extended beyond lifetime of the tool? interesting concept --


Do you suppose that if the lifetime of the tool is supposed to be 5
years,
the extended warranty would provide for repair, replacement or refund
for a tool that failed after 6?

--

FF

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:

Now, let's see if you use it again.


Already have as far as the upgraded customer support is concerned.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message

Google "data recovery" and you'll find several services that offer
recovery
in that range.

Like I said, there are several with pricing in that range.

"Already did. About 1500 bucks."

YOUR very words just a few hours ago. And now you're incapable or not
willing to provide the name of the company? You're about as full of crap as
anyone I've seen Clarke. Until you're able to provide the name and phone
number of the company you said you called I won't hesitate to call you a
liar.

You're a joke Clarke as well as being a liar. Grow some balls and admit you
lied or give the name of the specific company that does the recovery
services for $1500. You'd be doing everyone who needed recovery services a
favour and shut me down at the same time. So, what's stopping you besides
the fact that you got caught lying?

Call me whatever you want Clarke, but I don't lie and I don't cheat. Can't
say that can you?

Upscale wrote:


"J. Clarke" wrote in message

Google "data recovery" and you'll find several services that offer
recovery
in that range.

Like I said, there are several with pricing in that range.

"Already did. About 1500 bucks."

YOUR very words just a few hours ago. And now you're incapable or not
willing to provide the name of the company?

I really don't want to repeat the search. If it was hard to find it would
be one thing.

You're about as full of crap
as anyone I've seen Clarke. Until you're able to provide the name and
phone number of the company you said you called I won't hesitate to call
you a liar.

Sticks and stones.

You're a joke Clarke as well as being a liar. Grow some balls and admit
you lied or give the name of the specific company that does the recovery
services for $1500. You'd be doing everyone who needed recovery services a
favour and shut me down at the same time. So, what's stopping you besides
the fact that you got caught lying?

Call me whatever you want Clarke, but I don't lie and I don't cheat. Can't
say that can you?

Methinks thou does't protest too much.

And since you've chosen to launch personal attacks it's clear that you are a
loon.

G'day.

plonk

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Mon, 05 Jun 2006 07:44:08 -0700, mac davis
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Jun 2006 02:22:13 GMT, "JimR" wrote:

Ridgid power tools now come with a lifetime warranty, including replacement
batteries for cordless tools, if you register your purchase on the Ridgid
website. Nonetheless, at checkout at the local Home Depot, you have the
"opportunity" to buy an extended warranty ($9.99 for a $60 orbital sander,
for example).

Waarranty extended beyond lifetime of the tool? interesting concept --

Regards -- JimR

My question is usually something like "Who's lifetime, mine or the tools?"

Mac



If it's like the electronics industry, not only is it just the life of
the tool, it's only for the supported lifecycle of the tool.


https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm


+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

I can't argue with anyone's personal experience working for a computer
manufacturer, but some of the previous posts just don't seem right to
me. I'm writing this right now on a Compaq laptop, running linux,
with a Hitachi hard drive that I installed myself. I've
installed different make drives in Thinkpads and Gateway laptops as
well and never had any trouble, beyond cloning or otherwise installing
an OS, in getting them to work. And what's this about an internal
drive? I mean, they ARE removable and replaceable. And as I said, in
my experience it is easier to replace the ("internal") hard drive in
a laptop than in a desktop or tower system. Every one I've seen is
very easily accessible.

Oh, and by the way, I am sitting at a WOODEN desk.




--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland

In article ,
Leon wrote:
...snipped...

The $500 bought the better extended warranty plus it included a $200 rebate,
and 20% discount on the whole order. In addition it bumped the initial
purchase price of just the computer up to $2300 before any discounts which
qualified my purchase for an additional $200 discount for going past $2000
etc.

...snippped...

Leon, in the situation you described, you evaluated the pros & cons
and made a reasonable decision. I probably would have done the same.
I have purchased an extended warranty a few times but only after
evaluating it as you did. Most of the extended warranties I have been
offered with appliance, electronics, and to keep somewhat on topic, even
woodworking tools, have not been worh buying IMHO. That was the only
point I was trying to make in my original reply to your original post.



--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland

wrote in message
...
Leon, in the situation you described, you evaluated the pros & cons
and made a reasonable decision. I probably would have done the same.
I have purchased an extended warranty a few times but only after
evaluating it as you did. Most of the extended warranties I have been
offered with appliance, electronics, and to keep somewhat on topic, even
woodworking tools, have not been worh buying IMHO. That was the only
point I was trying to make in my original reply to your original post.



Agreed, and as my first response, that a fool is born every few minutes, if
you take your tool to the cashier and the cashier sells you the contract
with out you seeing all the details it could be a foolish decision. You
absolutely should read all the details and not take a salesman word on the
details.

"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
...


If it's like the electronics industry, not only is it just the life of
the tool, it's only for the supported lifecycle of the tool.


To clarify what the Ridgid warranty people told me, make copies of your
receipt as the receipt is often printed on thermal heat print paper and the
receipt has to be used to prove when the tool was purchased to define which
warranty you have. She said that the original thermal heat print receipt
will not last as long as the life time warranty. She said as long as I
owned the tool with the lifetime warranty and have a receipt to prove when
it was purchased that it would be repaired at no charge.