In article ,
T i m wrote:
On Thu, 19 Oct 2017 23:57:45 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
harry wrote:
Does the car have a heater?
Some have a heater, some have a heat pump.
I have warm clothes for along journey and pre-heat the car.

And you call that a dream to drive? Last car I drove where you had to wear
warm clothes for a journey was a pre-WW2 Austin 7.

Again, you are missing the point. harry is probably talking of the
actual *driving* (as in, the process of making the vehicle start, stop
and get you from A to B), rather than the whole experience of being in
a car.

eg. A fact that a car has a heater or even climate control doesn't
then make a heavy clutch or a noisy engine into a 'dream to drive'.

Then buy a better car. Noisy engines and heavy clutches aren't intrinsic.

--
*Don't use no double negatives *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Andy Bennet wrote:
On 19/10/2017 23:55, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
harry wrote:
On Thursday, 19 October 2017 10:42:51 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andy Bennet wrote:
We did not get an EV based on the cost of the fuel, it is just plain
more enjoyable driving.

Must admit that's the first time I've heard that one. ;-)

Electric cars are a dream to drive compared with ICE.

A Tesla may be interesting. But not as interesting as many many ICE
cars at the same price.


I dunno, A S P100D can do 0-60mph in 2.28 seconds, and you can listen in
comfort to some quiet Brahms and eat a sandwich while doing it.

Going to help with that time it spends queued up waiting for a charging
point to become free - as I saw the other day. Interesting you think it
drives itself though, so you could do something like eat a sandwich at the
same time. I'd actually find that rather difficult even as a passenger in
a car accelerating hard.

Try doing that while sweating your way through gears in anything else.

The majority of cars have an auto option these days - and is the norm on
high performance ones. Although you can also control the gearshifts
yourself.

--
*We never really grow*up, we only learn how to act in public.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 10:14:17 +0100
Andy Bennet wrote:


I dunno, A S P100D can do 0-60mph in 2.28 seconds, and you can listen
in comfort to some quiet Brahms and eat a sandwich while doing it.


They make pretty good drag racers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARzujfRiQ3c

On 20/10/2017 10:57, Steve wrote:
On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 10:14:17 +0100
Andy Bennet wrote:


I dunno, A S P100D can do 0-60mph in 2.28 seconds, and you can listen
in comfort to some quiet Brahms and eat a sandwich while doing it.


They make pretty good drag racers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARzujfRiQ3c



Yeah he's the guy from the Tesla racing channel - loads of interesting
drag vids

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxcK33lLUL8

On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 10:44:00 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
On Thu, 19 Oct 2017 23:55:25 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
harry wrote:
On Thursday, 19 October 2017 10:42:51 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andy Bennet wrote:
We did not get an EV based on the cost of the fuel, it is just plain
more enjoyable driving.

Must admit that's the first time I've heard that one. ;-)

Electric cars are a dream to drive compared with ICE.

A Tesla may be interesting. But not as interesting as many many ICE cars
at the same price.

harry said 'a dream to drive', not 'interesting'.

Point I was making is many will have a different view of what makes a car
a dream to drive.

Including using different words. ;-)

I find the seat very comfortable.
Yes, I find it very warm too. ;-)

eg, Ignoring range anxiety, from turning they key the first time (and
I'm talking specifically of my EV here) that trip, that's it, you
don't even feel / rear the gear changes as you might with even the
best automatics and have loads of torque (even on a small EV), just
when you generally need it.

Please don't lets get back on to torque again. You know it upsets so many.
;-)

;-)

And when you come to a halt, everything (any noise / vibrations etc)
instantly stop, silence, nothing. And when you hit the throttle, you
*instantly* start off again, no lag or hesitation whilst things fire /
spool up again (especially on the stop-start IC engined vehicles).

So no heating or air con when stopped?

Nope, as there isn't any in the first place. ;-)

I have seen all this being experienced (and expressed by those
interested in such things) many many times over the 30 I've had my EV.

Thing is many get pleasure from an IC car with a sweet clutch and gearbox.

If you think about it, for most people that would need to be so smooth
as completely unnoticeable, a bit like an electric car in fact. ;-)

The noise the engine may make even if very low.

Again, like passive smoking, only because that's what some people have
learned to accept as 'normal'. I bet for the vast majority, 'no noise
at all' would be better still.

Whilst I do appreciate the sound of an IC engine now and again, I've
never really *enjoyed* the sound ... or having to hear the sound on
anything, the 'noise' being more intrusive (to me and everyone else)
than the 'buzz'. I learned this very early on when both racing RC
boats and on my first moped. An RC Catamaran with a 'Webra 61 Speed
rear' in the back, even doing silly mph would be more tolerated if it
was quiet. You could make it reasonably quiet and still allow it to
churn out ~2hp at 17,000 rpm!

http://classicpattern.com/webra-speed-61/?lang=en

It took the baffles out of my first moped, ran it about for a day and
put them back in, never taking them out again as I couldn't bear the
constant noise. Similar with the factory exhaust on the kitcar which
was way too loud for me, quickly replaced with a slightly shortened
but otherwise stock (and quiet) stainless steel system. ;-)

For me (and many others I expect), most of what many consider to be
part of their enjoyment (exhaust noise) is sound pollution to others
and I don't miss it at all when driving / riding an EV.

The first is that it's a Moke (when all open in the summer and
especially when the windscreen is folded flat on the bonnet and the
doors off) and so very open making you very aware of everything around
you, especially noises and in the olden days, smells of other peoples
exhausts (as you would as a pedestrian, cyclist or motorcyclist etc).

Not sure I'd fancy wearing goggles each time I went for a drive.

It just needs sun glasses as I'd have the screen and soft top up and
doors on if the weather wasn't reasonable.

But what
you're saying there is why I've bought a 'sports car'. The difference
being it open up at the touch of a button. ;-)

More stuff to go wrong (and I only have to release two catches that I
bet would be quicker than most electrics). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 10:44:58 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
On Thu, 19 Oct 2017 23:57:45 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
harry wrote:
Does the car have a heater?
Some have a heater, some have a heat pump.
I have warm clothes for along journey and pre-heat the car.

And you call that a dream to drive? Last car I drove where you had to wear
warm clothes for a journey was a pre-WW2 Austin 7.

Again, you are missing the point. harry is probably talking of the
actual *driving* (as in, the process of making the vehicle start, stop
and get you from A to B), rather than the whole experience of being in
a car.

eg. A fact that a car has a heater or even climate control doesn't
then make a heavy clutch or a noisy engine into a 'dream to drive'.

Then buy a better car. Noisy engines and heavy clutches aren't intrinsic.

Like I said, even an automatic RR Ghost wasn't as seamless to drive as
my old EV ... I could still feel and hear the gear changes for
example.

Cheers, T i m

On 20/10/2017 00:11, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
On 19/10/2017 15:47, harry wrote:

Does the car have a heater?
Some have a heater, some have a heat pump.
I have warm clothes for along journey and pre-heat the car.

Back to the 1950s then.

My very first car was 50s. Had a very good heater.


And in the winter the most important function of the heater is to keep
the windscreen clear.


--
Michael Chare

In article ,
T i m wrote:
Then buy a better car. Noisy engines and heavy clutches aren't intrinsic.

Like I said, even an automatic RR Ghost wasn't as seamless to drive as
my old EV ... I could still feel and hear the gear changes for
example.

And your old EV was every bit as comfortable? ;-)

Best to compare apples with apples.

No EV is going to be totally silent. There will be road and wind noise.
Just how the combination of sounds it makes on the move delights or
offends is going to depend on individual taste.

--
*A snooze button is a poor substitute for no alarm clock at all *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Mark wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message

Most electric cars are charged overnight at home

That's because most are only town runabouts.

as many houses in towns don’t have off road parking ie driveway or
garage how would they charge them?

You could have charging sockets wherever the car is parked up overnight.
Posts at the edge of the pavement. Exactly as are springing up round here.
Although at the moment they seem to be restricted to the very few
stretches of pavement in residential areas that aren't actually in front
of a house. Like say on the end of a street where there is a longish
garden wall from the house on the corner.

Yes but
at the moment where I have a flat in london there are only two charge points
close
one is a 35Kw the other is 75Kw but is out of service
perhaps in the future there will be more fast charge points but dont they
still take 40 minutes fo 80pc charge
in reality if elec are the only cars you will be able to drive in large
towns in the future you would need many more then one charge point per road
can you imagine a petrol station in london or anywhere else where every car
took 40minutes to refill

-

On 20/10/17 17:45, Mark wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Mark wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message

Most electric cars are charged overnight at home

That's because most are only town runabouts.

as many houses in towns dont have off road parking ie driveway or
garage how would they charge them?

You could have charging sockets wherever the car is parked up overnight.
Posts at the edge of the pavement. Exactly as are springing up round here.
Although at the moment they seem to be restricted to the very few
stretches of pavement in residential areas that aren't actually in front
of a house. Like say on the end of a street where there is a longish
garden wall from the house on the corner.

Yes but
at the moment where I have a flat in london there are only two charge points
close
one is a 35Kw the other is 75Kw but is out of service
perhaps in the future there will be more fast charge points but dont they
still take 40 minutes fo 80pc charge
in reality if elec are the only cars you will be able to drive in large
towns in the future you would need many more then one charge point per road
can you imagine a petrol station in london or anywhere else where every car
took 40minutes to refill


Specious argument. Petrol stations are designed to refill petrol.

What you would have would be a multistorey car park with a substation
built in.


-




--
The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all
private property.

Karl Marx

On 20/10/2017 00:11, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
On 19/10/2017 15:47, harry wrote:

Does the car have a heater?
Some have a heater, some have a heat pump.
I have warm clothes for along journey and pre-heat the car.

Back to the 1950s then.

My very first car was 50s. Had a very good heater.


All right then. Back to horses and carts. I know that's what all the
greenies want.

Bill

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
harry wrote:
On Thursday, 19 October 2017 10:42:51 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andy Bennet wrote:
We did not get an EV based on the cost of the fuel, it is just plain
more enjoyable driving.

Must admit that's the first time I've heard that one. ;-)

Electric cars are a dream to drive compared with ICE.

A Tesla may be interesting. But not as interesting as many many ICE cars
at the same price.

Electric traction is undoubtedly more suitable than the ICE for
transport. The problem is all to plain to see. It takes less than 5
minutes to take on board enough fuel for 500 miles+. In liquid form, the
source of that energy can be easily transported around the supply
network and stored on multiple sites ready for use.
The electricity distribution network is nowhere near substantial enough
to cope with demand for all-electric vehicles regardless of where you
charge them. I wonder has any clever economist calculated the total
cost of waiting 20 minutes to charge your car rather than 5 - assuming
you can get on to a charging point of course?
There is little as yet on the horizon which suggest the storage problem
will be solved any day soon BICBW.
--
bert

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
T i m wrote:
On Thu, 19 Oct 2017 23:57:45 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
harry wrote:
Does the car have a heater?
Some have a heater, some have a heat pump.
I have warm clothes for along journey and pre-heat the car.

And you call that a dream to drive? Last car I drove where you had to wear
warm clothes for a journey was a pre-WW2 Austin 7.

Again, you are missing the point. harry is probably talking of the
actual *driving* (as in, the process of making the vehicle start, stop
and get you from A to B), rather than the whole experience of being in
a car.

eg. A fact that a car has a heater or even climate control doesn't
then make a heavy clutch or a noisy engine into a 'dream to drive'.

Then buy a better car. Noisy engines and heavy clutches aren't intrinsic.

Except in a LR Defender/Series
--
bert

On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 14:08:51 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
Then buy a better car. Noisy engines and heavy clutches aren't intrinsic.

Like I said, even an automatic RR Ghost wasn't as seamless to drive as
my old EV ... I could still feel and hear the gear changes for
example.

And your old EV was every bit as comfortable? ;-)

In my opinion and preference, yes.

Best to compare apples with apples.

I was, I was agreeing with happy in that the 'drive' part of 'driving
both cars', my EV is just as good at the RR.

No EV is going to be totally silent.

Ok ...

There will be road and wind noise.

Then that's not the fact that it's electrically driven but that it's a
mass going though the air on tyres. It makes *no noise* compared with
any IC car (that will also be making those noises but will also be
making *extra* noises because it's an IC car).

Just how the combination of sounds it makes on the move delights or
offends is going to depend on individual taste.

Quite ... and for me as someone (ideally) looking to get me and my
goods from A to B as efficiently and silently as possible, 'no sounds
at all' would be ideal [1] just like I don't really want to hear my
fridge or washing machine in action?

And why would *anyone* want anything different, just in the same way
as why would you want to such the smoke from burning leaves into your
lungs? ;-)


Cheers, T i m

[1] And pedestrians would just have to evolve to cope. ;-)

In article ,
T i m wrote:
Quite ... and for me as someone (ideally) looking to get me and my
goods from A to B as efficiently and silently as possible, 'no sounds
at all' would be ideal [1] just like I don't really want to hear my
fridge or washing machine in action?

And why would *anyone* want anything different

Pretty difficult to explain to someone who obviously isn't a keen driver.

--
*Some days we are the flies; some days we are the windscreen.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 00:18:14 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
Quite ... and for me as someone (ideally) looking to get me and my
goods from A to B as efficiently and silently as possible, 'no sounds
at all' would be ideal [1] just like I don't really want to hear my
fridge or washing machine in action?

And why would *anyone* want anything different

Pretty difficult to explain to someone who obviously isn't a keen driver.

I'm sure it would be, but you may need to differentiate between a
'keen driver', a 'petrolhead', a car enthusiast (collector / classic
driver restorer) a 'racer' or other competitor (off-road, time trials,
loudest ICE etc).

So, I like to 'make good progress' and put me on a track, I'll push
whatever (car / bike) fairly hard. Of the few races I've ever entered
(car, boat or bike or RC cars etc) I've generally done reasonably well
(won at Electric endurance (me riding) and RC buggy and saloon car
championships ... sponsored driver etc ...) (That reminds me I need to
book the 'Enhanced Rally Experience at Brands' daughter bought me for
my 60th).

However, for me there is a massive distinction between racing, or even
'making good progress' and everyday driving on the roads in the UK
today.

So, what is a 'keen driver'? Is it someone who might drive to the
South of France, rather than fly or get the train (I drove there and
back). Or, for their annual family holiday, ride and camp with
motorcycle ~2000 miles around the UK ... or what?

I did it on a 'touring motorcycle' because that's what I was doing ...
seeing the sight whilst enjoying the 'change' of being on two wheels
and on holiday, rather than my normal being on 4 and simply following
another car while I go from A to B. I am very rarely at the front of
any vehicle queue, unless I'm towing trailer or otherwise restricted
to something less than the marked limit.

But do I look forward to the actual driving bit? No, not really,
partly because of all I have stated above (traffic etc) but given the
number of speed cameras and such all over the place, one can rarely
actually 'drive' as such, so it's just a matter of sitting there like
some self-drive robot playing follow-the-leader.

I rarely 'look forward' to any drive and it really matters not what
I'm driving (other than for a very short time whilst the novelty is
still there, like driving my mates SL63 AMG, or riding my mates Harley
but I'm equally happy to get back in my Eurobox or BMW Tourer because
they are more practical and economical (when what we are all generally
doing is just following the vehicle in front).

I've just bought a little Yamaha 125 motorcycle, partly because it was
a good deal, partly because it might help a mate get some miles under
his belt between bike tests (depending on how he gets on on his bike
tests etc), partly because they are very cheap to run (~100 mpg, £18
TAX, £29.65 MOT etc) and I quite like pottering about on something
light, as_a_change. I might also take the 250cc motorbike, the 250cc
scooter, the 800cc naked BM or the 1000cc fully faired BM ... or the
Kitcar. ;-)

Keen driver / rider or someone who just likes variety in how he
chooses to get from A to B? ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 19/10/2017 17:07, Andrew wrote:
On 18/10/2017 20:47, Brian Reay wrote:
The Gov. still offer not only a generous 'bonus' to help fund a hybrid
or EV, they are also funding the installation of domestic charge points.

Shame the 'govt' isn't using its own money though ....

The Gov doesn't have its own money, it gets it from tax payers like me.
I see the bonus as a tax rebate ;-)

--

Suspect someone is claiming a benefit under false pretences? Incapacity
Benefit or Personal Independence Payment when they don't need it? They
are depriving those in real need!

https://www.gov.uk/report-benefit-fraud

On 21/10/2017 21:12, Brian Reay wrote:
it gets it from tax payers like me.

But you are only paying 5% vat on the leccy used for your car,
while normal cars pay fuel duty and vat at 20% on top of the
fuel duty.

On 20/10/2017 00:11, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
On 19/10/2017 15:47, harry wrote:

Does the car have a heater?
Some have a heater, some have a heat pump.
I have warm clothes for along journey and pre-heat the car.

Back to the 1950s then.

My very first car was 50s. Had a very good heater.


Optional extra in a Ford Anglia - about £12 if I
remember correctly.

On Thursday, 19 October 2017 15:46:24 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 19 October 2017 10:42:51 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andy Bennet wrote:
We did not get an EV based on the cost of the fuel, it is just plain
more enjoyable driving.

Must admit that's the first time I've heard that one. ;-)

Electric cars are a dream to drive compared with ICE.

I;m not a driver but even I know there are differnt dreams for drivers.

On Monday, 23 October 2017 16:25:43 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 19 October 2017 15:46:24 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 19 October 2017 10:42:51 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andy Bennet wrote:
We did not get an EV based on the cost of the fuel, it is just plain
more enjoyable driving.

Must admit that's the first time I've heard that one. ;-)

Electric cars are a dream to drive compared with ICE.

I;m not a driver but even I know there are differnt dreams for drivers.

Electric cars are a dream to drive because:-
The torque max comes at the time you need it (setting off)
There are no gear changes,just seamless acceleration.
Leaves most other cars standing at the traffic lights.
The mechanical brakes are only used to stop the car. Normal braking is regenerative, ie all speed control on the one pedal. The regenerative braking is adjustable to road conditions on my car.
The only noise is from the tyres so it's quieter than a Rolls Royce.
In Summer I charge it from my solar panels for free.
There's no road tax.
Insurance is about the same as a conventional car.
Maintenance is almost zero. No oil, no filters.
Just fluids to top up.

What's not to like?

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 23 October 2017 16:25:43 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 19 October 2017 15:46:24 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 19 October 2017 10:42:51 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article ,
Andy Bennet wrote:
We did not get an EV based on the cost of the fuel, it is just
plain
more enjoyable driving.

Must admit that's the first time I've heard that one. ;-)

Electric cars are a dream to drive compared with ICE.

I;m not a driver but even I know there are differnt dreams for drivers.

Electric cars are a dream to drive because:-
The torque max comes at the time you need it (setting off)
There are no gear changes,just seamless acceleration.
Leaves most other cars standing at the traffic lights.
The mechanical brakes are only used to stop the car. Normal braking is
regenerative, ie all speed control on the one pedal. The regenerative
braking is adjustable to road conditions on my car.
The only noise is from the tyres so it's quieter than a Rolls Royce.
In Summer I charge it from my solar panels for free.
There's no road tax.
Insurance is about the same as a conventional car.
Maintenance is almost zero. No oil, no filters.
Just fluids to top up.

What's not to like?

No useful heater or cooler, **** house range, very expensive batterys to
replace.

On 26/10/2017 17:27, harry wrote:
On Monday, 23 October 2017 16:25:43 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:


I;m not a driver but even I know there are differnt dreams for drivers.

Electric cars are a dream to drive because:-
The torque max comes at the time you need it (setting off)
There are no gear changes,just seamless acceleration.
Leaves most other cars standing at the traffic lights.
The mechanical brakes are only used to stop the car. Normal braking is regenerative, ie all speed control on the one pedal. The regenerative braking is adjustable to road conditions on my car.
The only noise is from the tyres so it's quieter than a Rolls Royce.
In Summer I charge it from my solar panels for free.
There's no road tax.
Insurance is about the same as a conventional car.
Maintenance is almost zero. No oil, no filters.
Just fluids to top up.

What's not to like?

Some of the automotive equivalent of Linux fanbois who buy them?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
On 26/10/2017 17:27, harry wrote:
On Monday, 23 October 2017 16:25:43 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:


I;m not a driver but even I know there are differnt dreams for
drivers.

Electric cars are a dream to drive because:- The torque max comes at
the time you need it (setting off) There are no gear changes,just
seamless acceleration. Leaves most other cars standing at the traffic
lights. The mechanical brakes are only used to stop the car. Normal
braking is regenerative, ie all speed control on the one pedal. The
regenerative braking is adjustable to road conditions on my car. The
only noise is from the tyres so it's quieter than a Rolls Royce. In
Summer I charge it from my solar panels for free. There's no road tax.
Insurance is about the same as a conventional car. Maintenance is
almost zero. No oil, no filters. Just fluids to top up.

What's not to like?

Some of the automotive equivalent of Linux fanbois who buy them?

Problem with the fast step off from rest is it tends to promise something
it can't deliver at higher speeds.

Not sure I'd like a car with no brakes - other than just to bring it to a
halt over the last few yards. ;-)

--
*We are born naked, wet, and hungry. Then things get worse.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 00:37:05 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:


lights. The mechanical brakes are only used to stop the car. Normal
braking is regenerative, ie all speed control on the one pedal.

Not sure I'd like a car with no brakes - other than just to bring it to a
halt over the last few yards. ;-)

Any particular reason why?
As a London resident you may well use Public transport more
frequently than those in the sticks and many of the electric trains
that you may use will be slowing in a very similar fashion.

G.Harman

On 27/10/2017 09:41, Huge wrote:
On 2017-10-26, John Rumm wrote:
On 26/10/2017 17:27, harry wrote:
On Monday, 23 October 2017 16:25:43 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:


I;m not a driver but even I know there are differnt dreams for drivers.

Electric cars are a dream to drive because:-
The torque max comes at the time you need it (setting off)
There are no gear changes,just seamless acceleration.
Leaves most other cars standing at the traffic lights.
The mechanical brakes are only used to stop the car. Normal braking is regenerative, ie all speed control on the one pedal. The regenerative braking is adjustable to road conditions on my car.
The only noise is from the tyres so it's quieter than a Rolls Royce.
In Summer I charge it from my solar panels for free.
There's no road tax.
Insurance is about the same as a conventional car.
Maintenance is almost zero. No oil, no filters.
Just fluids to top up.

What's not to like?

Some of the automotive equivalent of Linux fanbois who buy them?

Tssk. They bear much more comparison with Mac fanbois; electric cars
are very far from free. Although I have recently discovered a tribe of
fanbois who make the Apple ones look like calm rational human being;
Adobe Photoshop fanbois.



My French 4x4 hybrid estate car saves me £130 every month compared to
the Audi A4 Allroad it replaced and does everything the Allroad did!

Mike

On 27/10/17 10:33, Muddymike wrote:
My French 4x4 hybrid estate car saves me £130 every month compared to
the Audi A4 Allroad it replaced and does everything the Allroad did!

Well buying an Allroad just to do the supermarket run was a mistake anyway.

--
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler

In article ,
wrote:
On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 00:37:05 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:


lights. The mechanical brakes are only used to stop the car. Normal
braking is regenerative, ie all speed control on the one pedal.

Not sure I'd like a car with no brakes - other than just to bring it to a
halt over the last few yards. ;-)

Any particular reason why?
As a London resident you may well use Public transport more
frequently than those in the sticks and many of the electric trains
that you may use will be slowing in a very similar fashion.

You think a train running on rails the same as a car on a road? ;-)

I was just commenting on the nonsense that electric cars don't have normal
brakes. Of course they do - even when using regeneration to slow them down
to some extent. Unless you think two wheel brakes are going to be
marvellous for all occasions.

--
*(on a baby-size shirt) "Party -- my crib -- two a.m

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 11:02:28 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:


Any particular reason why?
As a London resident you may well use Public transport more
frequently than those in the sticks and many of the electric trains
that you may use will be slowing in a very similar fashion.

You think a train running on rails the same as a car on a road? ;-)

No, although some trams will be using the same technology and they run
on roads in places.
I just thought that maybe you had some sort of phobia or mistrust
about something not being 100% mechanical in action like some pilots
were apprehensive in fly by wire rather than mechanical linkages.

I was just commenting on the nonsense that electric cars don't have normal
brakes. Of course they do - even when using regeneration to slow them down
to some extent. Unless you think two wheel brakes are going to be
marvellous for all occasions.

The post to which you were replying said
"The mechanical brakes are only used to stop the car. Normal
braking is regenerative,"

It did not say it had no mechanical brakes,
only you introduced that with your line on personal preferences
"Not sure I'd like a car with no brakes - other than just to bring it
to a halt over the last few yards. ;-)"
I've no beef with that just wondered why, some drivers when conditions
allow like to combine throttle and brake input simultaneously so it
would on first glance appear an electric car may not be the best tool
for that. But won't the mechanical brakes be applied anyway from he
brake pedal when required if you wanted them to?
Is all you are doing when driving an electric on the throttle pedal
is using engine braking that is a bit more than the driver of an IC
vehicle is accustomed to so use of the actual brake pedal is far less
and later than in an IC car.
Sounds like it may actually encourage a reasonable driving technique
amongst the present " I can't anticipate I'm going to need to slow
down for that red light ahead" who keep the gas on and then brake
hard.

G.Harman

On 27/10/2017 10:38, Huge wrote:
On 2017-10-27, Muddymike wrote:
On 27/10/2017 09:41, Huge wrote:
On 2017-10-26, John Rumm wrote:
On 26/10/2017 17:27, harry wrote:
On Monday, 23 October 2017 16:25:43 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:


I;m not a driver but even I know there are differnt dreams for drivers.

Electric cars are a dream to drive because:-
The torque max comes at the time you need it (setting off)
There are no gear changes,just seamless acceleration.
Leaves most other cars standing at the traffic lights.
The mechanical brakes are only used to stop the car. Normal braking is regenerative, ie all speed control on the one pedal. The regenerative braking is adjustable to road conditions on my car.
The only noise is from the tyres so it's quieter than a Rolls Royce.
In Summer I charge it from my solar panels for free.
There's no road tax.
Insurance is about the same as a conventional car.
Maintenance is almost zero. No oil, no filters.
Just fluids to top up.

What's not to like?

Some of the automotive equivalent of Linux fanbois who buy them?

Tssk. They bear much more comparison with Mac fanbois; electric cars
are very far from free. Although I have recently discovered a tribe of
fanbois who make the Apple ones look like calm rational human being;
Adobe Photoshop fanbois.



My French 4x4 hybrid estate car saves me £130 every month compared to
the Audi A4 Allroad it replaced and does everything the Allroad did!

And they were both free, were they?


Yes, Company cars. I'm personally £130 better off every month due to the
lower Benefit in kind tax I have to pay.

In article ,
wrote:
On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 11:02:28 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:


Any particular reason why?
As a London resident you may well use Public transport more
frequently than those in the sticks and many of the electric trains
that you may use will be slowing in a very similar fashion.

You think a train running on rails the same as a car on a road? ;-)

No, although some trams will be using the same technology and they run
on roads in places.

You think a tram could stop as fast as a car using regenerative brakes?

I just thought that maybe you had some sort of phobia or mistrust
about something not being 100% mechanical in action like some pilots
were apprehensive in fly by wire rather than mechanical linkages.

Absolutely not. Just the way it was worded. The usual

I was just commenting on the nonsense that electric cars don't have
normal brakes. Of course they do - even when using regeneration to slow
them down to some extent. Unless you think two wheel brakes are going
to be marvellous for all occasions.

The post to which you were replying said "The mechanical brakes are only
used to stop the car. Normal
braking is regenerative,"

Exactly. Which was what I was commenting on. Braking to a mild degree of
retardation may well be regenerative. Whether that is normal or not
depends on the circumstances.

It's just the usual ad man's technique of trying to hype something out of
all propertion.

It did not say it had no mechanical brakes,
only you introduced that with your line on personal preferences
"Not sure I'd like a car with no brakes - other than just to bring it
to a halt over the last few yards. ;-)"

How did you read 'only used to stop the car' then? That just says what
every brake ever made does - until it was qualified by mentioning
regenerative braking.

I've no beef with that just wondered why, some drivers when conditions
allow like to combine throttle and brake input simultaneously

Really? It is a technique used by some rally drivers. Not sure it would be
much used on a public road.

so it
would on first glance appear an electric car may not be the best tool
for that. But won't the mechanical brakes be applied anyway from he
brake pedal when required if you wanted them to?

You'd have to ask harry.

Is all you are doing when driving an electric on the throttle pedal
is using engine braking that is a bit more than the driver of an IC
vehicle is accustomed to so use of the actual brake pedal is far less
and later than in an IC car.
Sounds like it may actually encourage a reasonable driving technique
amongst the present " I can't anticipate I'm going to need to slow
down for that red light ahead" who keep the gas on and then brake
hard.

The same will apply to an electric car. It is not going to be 100%
efficient in using regeneration to slow it down. Far better to anticipate
stopping where you can and 'coast' to a halt.

--
*No radio - Already stolen.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 13:30:57 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:



You think a train running on rails the same as a car on a road? ;-)

No, although some trams will be using the same technology and they run
on roads in places.

You think a tram could stop as fast as a car using regenerative brakes?

Not as good as car I would have thought, they can stop surprisingly
fast in emergency if the regenerated power is sent to the track brake
which is basically a long electromagnet mounted to a shoe that gets
clamped down to the rail , it also increases the downward force on the
wheels themselves.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._car_truck.jpg
Drivers try not to use them if it can be avoided as standing
passengers may be injured as they are thrown of their balance.
I just thought that maybe you had some sort of phobia or mistrust
about something not being 100% mechanical in action
Absolutely not.
Fair enough

I was just commenting on the nonsense that electric cars don't have
normal brakes. Of course they do - even when using regeneration to slow
them down to some extent. Unless you think two wheel brakes are going
to be marvellous for all occasions.

The post to which you were replying said "The mechanical brakes are only
used to stop the car. Normal
braking is regenerative,"


It did not say it had no mechanical brakes,
only you introduced that with your line on personal preferences
"Not sure I'd like a car with no brakes - other than just to bring it
to a halt over the last few yards. ;-)"

How did you read 'only used to stop the car' then? That just says what
every brake ever made does - until it was qualified by mentioning
regenerative braking.

I read as it as if you thought there was no alternative to relying on
the regenerative braking until it had slowed and you thought the
mechanical system was only operative for the last stage as regen
retardation became less.

I've no beef with that just wondered why, some drivers when conditions
allow like to combine throttle and brake input simultaneously

Really? It is a technique used by some rally drivers. Not sure it would be
much used on a public road.

There are quite a few out there who will try, often the unlicensed
and uninsured, not that I'm accusing you of being one of them.
Others may just let rip on a quiet road out in the sticks for a bit of
fun because they can even though their insurance company would not
approve. At least till we all get compulsory trackers in the
future,its possible you have may have done something like that till
the expericence of age moderated machoness.

But won't the mechanical brakes be applied anyway from he
brake pedal when required if you wanted them to?

You'd have to ask harry.
There others on here with electric cars that although I may not agree
with all their views are not just senile old gits, Harry as been KF'd
for years and will remain so.

G.Harman

On Thu, 19 Oct 2017 17:08:12 +0100, Andy Bennet
wrote:

snip

Assuming they actually use the car, then charge it at a public charge
point/supermarket/car park/motorway service
area/hotel/church/brothel/dealer etc

https://www.zap-map.com/live/

JOOI, I checked on the map and the nearest point (by miles) looks to
have been offline for months.

Who typically 'police' these 'Electric Vehicles Only' bays to ensure
that non electric cars don't block them up, as who would risk driving
to one if nothing can be done about it if the bay was so occupied?

Personally ... unless there was a *very* good reason for blocking a
restricted bay (like you were having a heart attack and were
subsequently taken to hospital by ambulance), your car should be taken
away, sold (or scrapped) and the funds given to the first person who
needed legitimate access to that space who reported it. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
wrote:
You think a tram could stop as fast as a car using regenerative brakes?

Not as good as car I would have thought, they can stop surprisingly
fast in emergency if the regenerated power is sent to the track brake
which is basically a long electromagnet mounted to a shoe that gets
clamped down to the rail , it also increases the downward force on the
wheels themselves.

Quite. Rather the same as an electric car. Regenerative brakes on their
own are no good for a quick stop.

That really was the point I was making. The brakes on any vehicle should
be specified to stop it as quickly as possible from any spped in an
emergency. If they use some other method to save or conserve energy on
gentle braking, so much the better. But this isn't restricted to electric
cars. Some buses used a flywheel many years ago. Some ICE cars use the
alternator.

--
*It is wrong to ever split an infinitive *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
T i m wrote:
Who typically 'police' these 'Electric Vehicles Only' bays to ensure
that non electric cars don't block them up, as who would risk driving
to one if nothing can be done about it if the bay was so occupied?

Some might say if an electric vehicle wants exclusive parking bays in a
public place, they should pay VED like other vehicles. And pay the same
sort of tax on their fuel as ICE vehicles.

I do.

--
*Upon the advice of my attorney, my shirt bears no message at this time

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 27/10/2017 10:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 27/10/17 10:33, Muddymike wrote:
My French 4x4 hybrid estate car saves me £130 every month compared to
the Audi A4 Allroad it replaced and does everything the Allroad did!

Well buying an Allroad just to do the supermarket run was a mistake anyway.
That would depend on what the terrain is like between home and the
supermarket!

Mike

On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 16:12:00 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
Who typically 'police' these 'Electric Vehicles Only' bays to ensure
that non electric cars don't block them up, as who would risk driving
to one if nothing can be done about it if the bay was so occupied?

Some might say if an electric vehicle wants exclusive parking bays in a
public place, they should pay VED like other vehicles.

They probably will at some point, except for now they are trying to
make them more appealing to stop thousands of people dying from
pollution primarily created by running ICE's in our cities.

And pay the same
sort of tax on their fuel as ICE vehicles.

They probably will at some point, except it isn't necessarily 'fuel'
in the same way petrol or diesel are (unless 'bio fuels')? Eg, how you
use your electricity should be down to you shouldn't it, be it for
cooling you beer or running your car?

Just the same with how you use your alcohol, be it in the food you
cook, in a glass to drink, getting stickers off things or a fuel in
your dragster or camping stove? ;-)


I do.

I'm sure you do. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Thursday, 26 October 2017 17:27:06 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Monday, 23 October 2017 16:25:43 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 19 October 2017 15:46:24 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 19 October 2017 10:42:51 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andy Bennet wrote:
We did not get an EV based on the cost of the fuel, it is just plain
more enjoyable driving.

Must admit that's the first time I've heard that one. ;-)

Electric cars are a dream to drive compared with ICE.

I;m not a driver but even I know there are differnt dreams for drivers.

Electric cars are a dream to drive because:-
The torque max comes at the time you need it (setting off).

Well IC cars are still genral speaking have a lower 0-60 time.

There are no gear changes,just seamless acceleration.

An advantage for some I guess lioke having an automatic.

Leaves most other cars standing at the traffic lights.

I doubt that cost for cost.

The mechanical brakes are only used to stop the car. Normal braking is regenerative, ie all speed control on the one pedal. The regenerative braking is adjustable to road conditions on my car.

and that makes driving more fun does it ?

The only noise is from the tyres so it's quieter than a Rolls Royce.
Makes me wonder why the high end cars make such a noise, I could hear the 3 lamborghinis coming down mile end road from quite a way off.
I hear that you can select the exhgaust type and sound for replacing exhast systems on porsches.


In Summer I charge it from my solar panels for free.

Handy if yuo ahave the space and setup for such things.

There's no road tax.

Presently it'll come.

Insurance is about the same as a conventional car.
Maintenance is almost zero. No oil, no filters.
Just fluids to top up.

What about the battery ?


What's not to like?

Difficult for some to have handy access to charging points, intial cost, Petrol head types, those that are into high performance cars, those that want a cheap runabout.

On Thu, 19 Oct 2017 14:58:07 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 19/10/17 13:37, Bill Wright wrote:
On 19/10/2017 13:25, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I bought a 300bhp, 2 seat sports car.


I think mine was the upper side of 370bhp...fun days

Willy waving!

Unashamedly!

Meh ... when I was driving my mates SL63 AMG (500+bhp) about it was
obvious it had a bit of 'go' but where could you (legally) use it?

Getting the 'right' fuel for it was nearly as hard as finding a free /
working electric charging point!

And all those engine bits flying about and still beaten to 60 by an
electric motor in a Tesla or for a lot less money and a smaller engine
with a 1080's Suzuki GSX-R1100. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 27/10/2017 17:00, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 26 October 2017 17:27:06 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Monday, 23 October 2017 16:25:43 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 19 October 2017 15:46:24 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 19 October 2017 10:42:51 UTC+1, Dave Plowman
(News) wrote:
In article
, Andy
Bennet wrote:
We did not get an EV based on the cost of the fuel, it is
just plain more enjoyable driving.

Must admit that's the first time I've heard that one. ;-)

Electric cars are a dream to drive compared with ICE.

I;m not a driver but even I know there are differnt dreams for
drivers.

Electric cars are a dream to drive because:- The torque max comes
at the time you need it (setting off).

Well IC cars are still genral speaking have a lower 0-60 time.

Since IIRC harry has a i-MiEV, that's a bit of an understatement! (0-62
in something like 16 seconds!)

There are no gear changes,just seamless acceleration.

Seamless as in you can't tell its accelerating

An advantage for some I guess lioke having an automatic.

Leaves most other cars standing at the traffic lights.

I doubt that cost for cost.

About 20K new now... more when harry got his. That buys quite a bit of
performance if you want it.

In Summer I charge it from my solar panels for free.

Handy if yuo ahave the space and setup for such things.

There's no road tax.

Presently it'll come.

Insurance is about the same as a conventional car. Maintenance is
almost zero. No oil, no filters. Just fluids to top up.

What about the battery ?


What's not to like?

Difficult for some to have handy access to charging points, intial
cost, Petrol head types, those that are into high performance cars,
those that want a cheap runabout.

Those that don't want something with the style of a pregnant roller
skate, which is less than 60" wide? Do you get in it, or put it on harry?


--
Cheers,

John.

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