On R4 You and Yours today - for those who may wish to listen again -
there was a bit about some filling stations providing fast charge points.
At last, you might say.

And they interviewed an actual punter with a Leaf. Worth a listen. ;-)

One point he made was he charges it at home at 12p per kW.hr. A full
charge costing about £2 and taking him about 80 miles.

The fast charge points will cost 50p per kW.hr and only charge to 80%.

So as a rough guestimate 7 quid for 70 miles. Not much different from a
small diesel. And, of course, no duty on that electricity, unlike petrol
and diesel.

--
*Ah, I see the f**k-up fairy has visited us again

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 18/10/2017 16:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
On R4 You and Yours today - for those who may wish to listen again -
there was a bit about some filling stations providing fast charge points.
At last, you might say.

And they interviewed an actual punter with a Leaf. Worth a listen. ;-)

One point he made was he charges it at home at 12p per kW.hr. A full
charge costing about £2 and taking him about 80 miles.

The fast charge points will cost 50p per kW.hr and only charge to 80%.

So as a rough guestimate 7 quid for 70 miles. Not much different from a
small diesel. And, of course, no duty on that electricity, unlike petrol
and diesel.


Let's assume that I don't have listen again yet.

Did they say how long the fast charge took?




--
Adam

On 18/10/2017 16:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
On R4 You and Yours today - for those who may wish to listen again -
there was a bit about some filling stations providing fast charge points.
At last, you might say.

And they interviewed an actual punter with a Leaf. Worth a listen. ;-)

One point he made was he charges it at home at 12p per kW.hr. A full
charge costing about £2 and taking him about 80 miles.

The fast charge points will cost 50p per kW.hr and only charge to 80%.

So as a rough guestimate 7 quid for 70 miles. Not much different from a
small diesel. And, of course, no duty on that electricity, unlike petrol
and diesel.


The Norwegians are planning to tax (or remove subsidies) from heavy
electric cars. I think they mean ones exceeding 2 tonnes.

On 18/10/2017 16:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
On R4 You and Yours today - for those who may wish to listen again -
there was a bit about some filling stations providing fast charge points.
At last, you might say.

And they interviewed an actual punter with a Leaf. Worth a listen. ;-)

One point he made was he charges it at home at 12p per kW.hr. A full
charge costing about £2 and taking him about 80 miles.

The fast charge points will cost 50p per kW.hr and only charge to 80%.

So as a rough guestimate 7 quid for 70 miles. Not much different from a
small diesel. And, of course, no duty on that electricity, unlike petrol
and diesel.


I've been looking at EV charging (we've just ordered a hybrid) and I've
found there are a surprising number of free or cheap charging points.
Some require a subscription of about £8 per mth, others seem to be
totally free. The £8 / mth one is the Polar network, which is a mix of
free and charged for points.

Of course, the danger is that, having got everyone 'hooked', they ramp
up the costs.

The Gov. still offer not only a generous 'bonus' to help fund a hybrid
or EV, they are also funding the installation of domestic charge points.
The process seems very 'slick' so far- ours should be installed in under
2 weeks.

On Wednesday, 18 October 2017 20:47:37 UTC+1, Brian Reay wrote:
On 18/10/2017 16:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
On R4 You and Yours today - for those who may wish to listen again -
there was a bit about some filling stations providing fast charge points.
At last, you might say.

And they interviewed an actual punter with a Leaf. Worth a listen. ;-)

One point he made was he charges it at home at 12p per kW.hr. A full
charge costing about £2 and taking him about 80 miles.

The fast charge points will cost 50p per kW.hr and only charge to 80%.

So as a rough guestimate 7 quid for 70 miles. Not much different from a
small diesel. And, of course, no duty on that electricity, unlike petrol
and diesel.


I've been looking at EV charging (we've just ordered a hybrid) and I've
found there are a surprising number of free or cheap charging points.
Some require a subscription of about £8 per mth, others seem to be
totally free. The £8 / mth one is the Polar network, which is a mix of
free and charged for points.

Of course, the danger is that, having got everyone 'hooked', they ramp
up the costs.

The Gov. still offer not only a generous 'bonus' to help fund a hybrid
or EV, they are also funding the installation of domestic charge points.
The process seems very 'slick' so far- ours should be installed in under
2 weeks.

no danger whatsoever, it's guaranteed


NT

On 18/10/2017 20:00, Huge wrote:
On 2017-10-18, Andrew wrote:
On 18/10/2017 16:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
On R4 You and Yours today - for those who may wish to listen again -
there was a bit about some filling stations providing fast charge points.
At last, you might say.

And they interviewed an actual punter with a Leaf. Worth a listen. ;-)

One point he made was he charges it at home at 12p per kW.hr. A full
charge costing about £2 and taking him about 80 miles.

The fast charge points will cost 50p per kW.hr and only charge to 80%.

So as a rough guestimate 7 quid for 70 miles. Not much different from a
small diesel. And, of course, no duty on that electricity, unlike petrol
and diesel.


The Norwegians are planning to tax (or remove subsidies) from heavy
electric cars. I think they mean ones exceeding 2 tonnes.

This kind of thing (and more) is inevitable. Governments are addicted
to the tax levied on vehicle fuels and will not give them up.


Something most proponents of electric vehicles tend to forget.

--
Michael Chare

On 18/10/2017 21:47, wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 October 2017 20:47:37 UTC+1, Brian Reay wrote:
On 18/10/2017 16:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
On R4 You and Yours today - for those who may wish to listen again -
there was a bit about some filling stations providing fast charge points.
At last, you might say.

And they interviewed an actual punter with a Leaf. Worth a listen. ;-)

One point he made was he charges it at home at 12p per kW.hr. A full
charge costing about £2 and taking him about 80 miles.

The fast charge points will cost 50p per kW.hr and only charge to 80%.

So as a rough guestimate 7 quid for 70 miles. Not much different from a
small diesel. And, of course, no duty on that electricity, unlike petrol
and diesel.


I've been looking at EV charging (we've just ordered a hybrid) and I've
found there are a surprising number of free or cheap charging points.
Some require a subscription of about £8 per mth, others seem to be
totally free. The £8 / mth one is the Polar network, which is a mix of
free and charged for points.

Of course, the danger is that, having got everyone 'hooked', they ramp
up the costs.

The Gov. still offer not only a generous 'bonus' to help fund a hybrid
or EV, they are also funding the installation of domestic charge points.
The process seems very 'slick' so far- ours should be installed in under
2 weeks.

no danger whatsoever, it's guaranteed

Indeed, one of the reasons we went hybrid and not all electric.

On Wednesday, 18 October 2017 16:54:02 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
On R4 You and Yours today - for those who may wish to listen again -
there was a bit about some filling stations providing fast charge points.
At last, you might say.

And they interviewed an actual punter with a Leaf. Worth a listen. ;-)

One point he made was he charges it at home at 12p per kW.hr. A full
charge costing about £2 and taking him about 80 miles.

The fast charge points will cost 50p per kW.hr and only charge to 80%.

So as a rough guestimate 7 quid for 70 miles. Not much different from a
small diesel. And, of course, no duty on that electricity, unlike petrol
and diesel.

Most electric cars are charged overnight at home

On 18/10/2017 16:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
On R4 You and Yours today - for those who may wish to listen again -
there was a bit about some filling stations providing fast charge points.
At last, you might say.

And they interviewed an actual punter with a Leaf. Worth a listen. ;-)

One point he made was he charges it at home at 12p per kW.hr. A full
charge costing about £2 and taking him about 80 miles.

The fast charge points will cost 50p per kW.hr and only charge to 80%.

So as a rough guestimate 7 quid for 70 miles. Not much different from a
small diesel. And, of course, no duty on that electricity, unlike petrol
and diesel.


What is the life of a battery? Do you need to factor battery replacement
into the running costs?
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

In article ,
harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 October 2017 16:54:02 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
On R4 You and Yours today - for those who may wish to listen again -
there was a bit about some filling stations providing fast charge
points. At last, you might say.

And they interviewed an actual punter with a Leaf. Worth a listen. ;-)

One point he made was he charges it at home at 12p per kW.hr. A full
charge costing about £2 and taking him about 80 miles.

The fast charge points will cost 50p per kW.hr and only charge to 80%.

So as a rough guestimate 7 quid for 70 miles. Not much different from
a small diesel. And, of course, no duty on that electricity, unlike
petrol and diesel.

Most electric cars are charged overnight at home

That's because most are only town runabouts. If filling stations are
getting round to fitting fast charging points, it suggests they are going
to be used for longer distances.

--
*What happens when none of your bees wax? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 18/10/2017 23:10, Roger Mills wrote:

What is the life of a battery? Do you need to factor battery replacement
into the running costs?

Yes but that's a secret. Hush!

Bill

On 18/10/2017 23:10, Roger Mills wrote:
On 18/10/2017 16:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
On R4 You and Yours todayÂ* - for those who may wish to listen again -
there was a bit about some filling stations providing fast charge points.
At last, you might say.

And they interviewed an actual punter with a Leaf. Worth a listen. ;-)

One point he made was he charges it at home at 12p per kW.hr. A full
charge costing about £2 and taking him about 80 miles.

The fast charge points will cost 50p per kW.hr and only charge to 80%.

So as a rough guestimate 7 quid for 70 miles. Not much different from a
small diesel. And, of course, no duty on that electricity, unlike petrol
and diesel.


What is the life of a battery? Do you need to factor battery replacement
into the running costs?

At least one manufacturer gives an 8 year warranty on their PHEV hybrid
batteries- it covers them to ensure 70% capacity. Their batteries are
also 'modular' and, supposedly, that means cheaper to repair (well swap
out 'cells' or 'modules' (I'm not sure of the details.)



--

Suspect someone is claiming a benefit under false pretences? Incapacity
Benefit or Personal Independence Payment when they don't need it? They
are depriving those in real need!

https://www.gov.uk/report-benefit-fraud

What happens if he needs the heater and the wipers etc as well though?
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
On R4 You and Yours today - for those who may wish to listen again -
there was a bit about some filling stations providing fast charge points.
At last, you might say.

And they interviewed an actual punter with a Leaf. Worth a listen. ;-)

One point he made was he charges it at home at 12p per kW.hr. A full
charge costing about £2 and taking him about 80 miles.

The fast charge points will cost 50p per kW.hr and only charge to 80%.

So as a rough guestimate 7 quid for 70 miles. Not much different from a
small diesel. And, of course, no duty on that electricity, unlike petrol
and diesel.

--
*Ah, I see the f**k-up fairy has visited us again

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 19/10/2017 03:30, Bill Wright wrote:
On 18/10/2017 23:10, Roger Mills wrote:

What is the life of a battery? Do you need to factor battery
replacement into the running costs?

Yes but that's a secret. Hush!

You certainly need to factor in depreciation and lost capacity with age.

Proponents always base their claims on overnight charging on Economy7
which isn't going to do you any good on a long journey when you run out
of power half way to Edinburgh. You may as well get the train.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
On 19/10/2017 03:30, Bill Wright wrote:
On 18/10/2017 23:10, Roger Mills wrote:

What is the life of a battery? Do you need to factor battery
replacement into the running costs?

Yes but that's a secret. Hush!

You certainly need to factor in depreciation and lost capacity with age.

Proponents always base their claims on overnight charging on Economy7
which isn't going to do you any good on a long journey when you run out
of power half way to Edinburgh. You may as well get the train.

Trouble is that when I do that journey by car, I have the back of the
vehicle full of kit.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On Thu, 19 Oct 2017 08:21:49 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

What happens if he needs the heater and the wipers etc as well though?

On my EV there is no heater and the wipers and lights etc run from an
independent auxiliary battery so wouldn't affect the range as such,
especially in the dry and daytime. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 19/10/2017 00:22, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 October 2017 16:54:02 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
On R4 You and Yours today - for those who may wish to listen again -
there was a bit about some filling stations providing fast charge
points. At last, you might say.

And they interviewed an actual punter with a Leaf. Worth a listen. ;-)

One point he made was he charges it at home at 12p per kW.hr. A full
charge costing about £2 and taking him about 80 miles.

The fast charge points will cost 50p per kW.hr and only charge to 80%.

So as a rough guestimate 7 quid for 70 miles. Not much different from
a small diesel. And, of course, no duty on that electricity, unlike
petrol and diesel.

Most electric cars are charged overnight at home

That's because most are only town runabouts. If filling stations are
getting round to fitting fast charging points, it suggests they are going
to be used for longer distances.


We have a Renault Zoe (Wifeys car which I enjoy driving) which has a
useable range of 185miles, will easily do an 80 mile destination and
back, hardly a town runabout. We charge it overnight at 7p/kWh, about £3
including inefficiencies.
We did not get an EV based on the cost of the fuel, it is just plain
more enjoyable driving.

Yes, travelling to destinations more than 85/90 miles away starts to
require a topup on the road. We bought it as a runabout for the missus
mainly, longer distances we use the legacy vehicle, but battery
technology already exists in the lab which will allow 500 or more mile
range which for me is all the driving I want to do in a day.

We are lucky and have off road parking so can easily charge at home so
an EV is a perfect solution.
Having said that I do appreciate that the existing infrastructure makes
it difficult for people in flats etc with no off road parking, but it
will get better in time (it has to, and there are plenty of bucks to be
made in doing so).

Andy

On 19/10/2017 09:03, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 19 Oct 2017 08:21:49 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

What happens if he needs the heater and the wipers etc as well though?

On my EV there is no heater and the wipers and lights etc run from an
independent auxiliary battery so wouldn't affect the range as such,
especially in the dry and daytime. ;-)

Cheers, T i m


Normally the 12V battery is recharged from the 400V traction battery via
a DC/DC convertor - typically 1kW , so heating/lighting etc DOES use the
traction power. However 100W for lights (less if LED) will hardly make a
dent in a 40/50/60kWh traction battery capacity.
Many EVs use a reversible heatpump for the heating/aircon and give a COP
of nearly 300% so those loads are much lower than on a pure resistive
heating type.

Andy

In article ,
Andy Bennet wrote:
We did not get an EV based on the cost of the fuel, it is just plain
more enjoyable driving.

Must admit that's the first time I've heard that one. ;-)

--
*Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 18/10/2017 16:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
On R4 You and Yours today - for those who may wish to listen again -
there was a bit about some filling stations providing fast charge points.
At last, you might say.

And they interviewed an actual punter with a Leaf. Worth a listen. ;-)

One point he made was he charges it at home at 12p per kW.hr. A full
charge costing about £2 and taking him about 80 miles.

The fast charge points will cost 50p per kW.hr and only charge to 80%.

So as a rough guestimate 7 quid for 70 miles. Not much different from a
small diesel. And, of course, no duty on that electricity, unlike petrol
and diesel.

My mate with his leaf ended up feeling like it was a bit of a bait and
switch. Originally many of the fast charge points were free once you
have bought a card to let you use them. Then recently they started fixed
duration charges at £7 a charge, and that charge duration (either 20 or
30 mins IIRC) was not long enough to actually fully charge it - so you
would have to buy two for a complete fill up, which means £14 for 90
miles or so.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 19/10/2017 09:36, Andy Bennet wrote:
On 19/10/2017 00:22, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
** harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 October 2017 16:54:02 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
On R4 You and Yours today* - for those who may wish to listen again -
there was a bit about some filling stations providing fast charge
points. At last, you might say.

And they interviewed an actual punter with a Leaf. Worth a listen. ;-)

One point he made was he charges it at home at 12p per kW.hr. A full
charge costing about £2 and taking him about 80 miles.

The fast charge points will cost 50p per kW.hr and only charge to 80%.

So as a rough guestimate 7 quid for 70 miles. Not much different from
a small diesel. And, of course, no duty on that electricity, unlike
petrol and diesel.

Most electric cars are charged overnight at home

That's because most are only town runabouts. If filling stations are
getting round to fitting fast charging points, it suggests they are going
to be used for longer distances.


We have a Renault Zoe (Wifeys car which I enjoy driving) which has a
useable range of 185miles, will easily do an 80 mile destination and
back, hardly a town runabout. We charge it overnight at 7p/kWh, about £3
including inefficiencies.
We did not get an EV based on the cost of the fuel, it is just plain
more enjoyable driving.

Yes, travelling to destinations more than 85/90 miles away starts to
require a topup on the road. We bought it as a runabout for the missus
mainly, longer distances we use the legacy vehicle, but battery
technology already exists in the lab which will allow 500 or more mile
range which for me is all the driving I want to do in a day.

We are lucky and have off road parking so can easily charge at home so
an EV is a perfect solution.
Having said that I do appreciate that the existing infrastructure makes
it difficult for people in flats etc with no off road parking, but it
will get better in time (it has to, and there are plenty of bucks to be
made in doing so).

Andy

Does the car have a heater?

--
Michael Chare

On Thursday, October 19, 2017 at 9:03:19 AM UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 19 Oct 2017 08:21:49 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

What happens if he needs the heater and the wipers etc as well though?

On my EV there is no heater and the wipers and lights etc run from an
independent auxiliary battery so wouldn't affect the range as such,
especially in the dry and daytime. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Is this the DIY Morris Minor EV that was mentioned on the BBC this morning?

Either way, is the lack of heater an issue, or do the batteries and motors keep you warm in winter or something?

Cheers

Chris

On 19/10/2017 11:31, wrote:
On Thursday, October 19, 2017 at 9:03:19 AM UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 19 Oct 2017 08:21:49 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

What happens if he needs the heater and the wipers etc as well though?

On my EV there is no heater and the wipers and lights etc run from an
independent auxiliary battery so wouldn't affect the range as such,
especially in the dry and daytime. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Is this the DIY Morris Minor EV that was mentioned on the BBC this morning?

Either way, is the lack of heater an issue, or do the batteries and motors keep you warm in winter or something?

I can see travel rugs, driving gloves and car coats coming back in fashion.

--
Max Demian

On 19/10/2017 11:01, John Rumm wrote:
On 18/10/2017 16:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
On R4 You and Yours today* - for those who may wish to listen again -
there was a bit about some filling stations providing fast charge points.
At last, you might say.

And they interviewed an actual punter with a Leaf. Worth a listen. ;-)

One point he made was he charges it at home at 12p per kW.hr. A full
charge costing about £2 and taking him about 80 miles.

The fast charge points will cost 50p per kW.hr and only charge to 80%.

So as a rough guestimate 7 quid for 70 miles. Not much different from a
small diesel. And, of course, no duty on that electricity, unlike petrol
and diesel.

My mate with his leaf ended up feeling like it was a bit of a bait and
switch. Originally many of the fast charge points were free once you
have bought a card to let you use them. Then recently they started fixed
duration charges at £7 a charge, and that charge duration (either 20 or
30 mins IIRC) was not long enough to actually fully charge it - so you
would have to buy two for a complete fill up, which means £14 for 90
miles or so.

Not quite bait-and-switch. More like a teaser rate or low-ball. A sales
and marketing expert would know the right term. I expect the government
will do something similar when they stop subsidising sales of EV when
most people have them.

--
Max Demian

On 19/10/17 12:38, Huge wrote:
On 2017-10-19, Andy Bennet wrote:

[29 lines snipped]

We did not get an EV based on the cost of the fuel, it is just plain
more enjoyable driving.

Chacun a son gout, I guess. When I wanted a vehicle for "enjoyable driving"
I bought a 300bhp, 2 seat sports car.


I think mine was the upper side of 370bhp...fun days



--
€œit should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans,
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,'
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that
you live neither in Joseph Stalins Communist era, nor in the Orwellian
utopia of 1984.€�

Vaclav Klaus

On 19/10/2017 13:25, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I bought a 300bhp, 2 seat sports car.


I think mine was the upper side of 370bhp...fun days

Willy waving!

Bill

On 19/10/2017 09:03, charles wrote:

Proponents always base their claims on overnight charging on Economy7
which isn't going to do you any good on a long journey when you run out
of power half way to Edinburgh. You may as well get the train.

Trouble is that when I do that journey by car, I have the back of the
vehicle full of kit.


Well that sort of thing just won't be allowed in the brave new world.

Bill

On 19/10/2017 06:46, Brian Reay wrote:

At least one manufacturer gives an 8 year warranty on their PHEV hybrid
batteries- it covers them to ensure 70% capacity. Their batteries are
also 'modular' and, supposedly, that means cheaper to repair (well swap
out 'cells' or 'modules' (I'm not sure of the details.)

That's ridiculous. If one cell's ****ed the rest aren't far behind.

Bill

On 19/10/2017 09:03, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 19 Oct 2017 08:21:49 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

What happens if he needs the heater and the wipers etc as well though?

On my EV there is no heater and the wipers and lights etc run from an
independent auxiliary battery so wouldn't affect the range as such,
especially in the dry and daytime. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

So on a long journey in the rain the wipers and lights would pack up?
What's the capacity of the aux battery? Normal wipers draw between 5 and
10A at 12V so you'd need a big ass battery to keep then working all day
long.

Bill

On 19/10/2017 12:09, Max Demian wrote:

Either way, is the lack of heater an issue, or do the batteries and
motors keep you warm in winter or something?

I can see travel rugs, driving gloves and car coats coming back in fashion.


I had a Bedford CA van in the sixties and the heater was very
inefficient, so I used to have a paraffin stove. It was essential on the
occasions when I was ordered to take Grandma across the Pennines to
visit one of her boys.

When we've all been coerced to use electric cars there'll probably be a
lot of people doing that sort of thing.

Bill

On 19/10/17 13:37, Bill Wright wrote:
On 19/10/2017 13:25, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I bought a 300bhp, 2 seat sports car.


I think mine was the upper side of 370bhp...fun days

Willy waving!

Unashamedly!
Bill



--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

On 19/10/17 13:48, Bill Wright wrote:
On 19/10/2017 12:09, Max Demian wrote:

Either way, is the lack of heater an issue, or do the batteries and
motors keep you warm in winter or something?

I can see travel rugs, driving gloves and car coats coming back in
fashion.


I had a Bedford CA van in the sixties and the heater was very
inefficient,

You had a heater?

I used to open te engine cover so I coudl ajust the carb and the
distribuor whilst driving, and warm nme legs up


so I used to have a paraffin stove. It was essential on the
occasions when I was ordered to take Grandma across the Pennines to
visit one of her boys.

When we've all been coerced to use electric cars there'll probably be a
lot of people doing that sort of thing.

Bill


--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

On Thursday, 19 October 2017 00:26:37 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 October 2017 16:54:02 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
On R4 You and Yours today - for those who may wish to listen again -
there was a bit about some filling stations providing fast charge
points. At last, you might say.

And they interviewed an actual punter with a Leaf. Worth a listen. ;-)

One point he made was he charges it at home at 12p per kW.hr. A full
charge costing about £2 and taking him about 80 miles.

The fast charge points will cost 50p per kW.hr and only charge to 80%..

So as a rough guestimate 7 quid for 70 miles. Not much different from
a small diesel. And, of course, no duty on that electricity, unlike
petrol and diesel.

Most electric cars are charged overnight at home

That's because most are only town runabouts. If filling stations are
getting round to fitting fast charging points, it suggests they are going
to be used for longer distances.

Long range electric cars will be too expensive for "normal" people.
The (electric) train will take the strain.

On Thursday, 19 October 2017 09:36:34 UTC+1, Andy Bennet wrote:
On 19/10/2017 00:22, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 October 2017 16:54:02 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
On R4 You and Yours today - for those who may wish to listen again -
there was a bit about some filling stations providing fast charge
points. At last, you might say.

And they interviewed an actual punter with a Leaf. Worth a listen. ;-)

One point he made was he charges it at home at 12p per kW.hr. A full
charge costing about £2 and taking him about 80 miles.

The fast charge points will cost 50p per kW.hr and only charge to 80%..

So as a rough guestimate 7 quid for 70 miles. Not much different from
a small diesel. And, of course, no duty on that electricity, unlike
petrol and diesel.

Most electric cars are charged overnight at home

That's because most are only town runabouts. If filling stations are
getting round to fitting fast charging points, it suggests they are going
to be used for longer distances.


We have a Renault Zoe (Wifeys car which I enjoy driving) which has a
useable range of 185miles, will easily do an 80 mile destination and
back, hardly a town runabout. We charge it overnight at 7p/kWh, about £3
including inefficiencies.
We did not get an EV based on the cost of the fuel, it is just plain
more enjoyable driving.

Yes, travelling to destinations more than 85/90 miles away starts to
require a topup on the road. We bought it as a runabout for the missus
mainly, longer distances we use the legacy vehicle, but battery
technology already exists in the lab which will allow 500 or more mile
range which for me is all the driving I want to do in a day.

We are lucky and have off road parking so can easily charge at home so
an EV is a perfect solution.
Having said that I do appreciate that the existing infrastructure makes
it difficult for people in flats etc with no off road parking, but it
will get better in time (it has to, and there are plenty of bucks to be
made in doing so).

Andy

You never mentioned the battery costs.

On Thursday, 19 October 2017 10:42:51 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andy Bennet wrote:
We did not get an EV based on the cost of the fuel, it is just plain
more enjoyable driving.

Must admit that's the first time I've heard that one. ;-)

Electric cars are a dream to drive compared with ICE.

On Thursday, 19 October 2017 11:08:57 UTC+1, Michael Chare wrote:
On 19/10/2017 09:36, Andy Bennet wrote:
On 19/10/2017 00:22, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â* harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 October 2017 16:54:02 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
On R4 You and Yours todayÂ* - for those who may wish to listen again -
there was a bit about some filling stations providing fast charge
points. At last, you might say.

And they interviewed an actual punter with a Leaf. Worth a listen. ;-)

One point he made was he charges it at home at 12p per kW.hr. A full
charge costing about £2 and taking him about 80 miles.

The fast charge points will cost 50p per kW.hr and only charge to 80%.

So as a rough guestimate 7 quid for 70 miles. Not much different from
a small diesel. And, of course, no duty on that electricity, unlike
petrol and diesel.

Most electric cars are charged overnight at home

That's because most are only town runabouts. If filling stations are
getting round to fitting fast charging points, it suggests they are going
to be used for longer distances.


We have a Renault Zoe (Wifeys car which I enjoy driving) which has a
useable range of 185miles, will easily do an 80 mile destination and
back, hardly a town runabout. We charge it overnight at 7p/kWh, about £3
including inefficiencies.
We did not get an EV based on the cost of the fuel, it is just plain
more enjoyable driving.

Yes, travelling to destinations more than 85/90 miles away starts to
require a topup on the road. We bought it as a runabout for the missus
mainly, longer distances we use the legacy vehicle, but battery
technology already exists in the lab which will allow 500 or more mile
range which for me is all the driving I want to do in a day.

We are lucky and have off road parking so can easily charge at home so
an EV is a perfect solution.
Having said that I do appreciate that the existing infrastructure makes
it difficult for people in flats etc with no off road parking, but it
will get better in time (it has to, and there are plenty of bucks to be
made in doing so).

Andy

Does the car have a heater?
Some have a heater, some have a heat pump.
I have warm clothes for along journey and pre-heat the car.

On Wednesday, 18 October 2017 23:08:40 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:
On 18/10/2017 16:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
On R4 You and Yours today - for those who may wish to listen again -
there was a bit about some filling stations providing fast charge points.
At last, you might say.

And they interviewed an actual punter with a Leaf. Worth a listen. ;-)

One point he made was he charges it at home at 12p per kW.hr. A full
charge costing about £2 and taking him about 80 miles.

The fast charge points will cost 50p per kW.hr and only charge to 80%.

So as a rough guestimate 7 quid for 70 miles. Not much different from a
small diesel. And, of course, no duty on that electricity, unlike petrol
and diesel.


What is the life of a battery? Do you need to factor battery replacement
into the running costs?



In my case, 16,000 miles.
£7,000 but fortunately under guarantee. (5 years)

Obviously a duff battery.

On Thursday, 19 October 2017 13:44:07 UTC+1, Bill Wright wrote:
On 19/10/2017 09:03, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 19 Oct 2017 08:21:49 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

What happens if he needs the heater and the wipers etc as well though?

On my EV there is no heater and the wipers and lights etc run from an
independent auxiliary battery so wouldn't affect the range as such,
especially in the dry and daytime. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

So on a long journey in the rain the wipers and lights would pack up?
What's the capacity of the aux battery? Normal wipers draw between 5 and
10A at 12V so you'd need a big ass battery to keep then working all day
long.

Bill

It's charged from the traction battery.
It's a tiny battery. (No starter motor)
If it goes flat, the car can't be charged, run or anything.

On Wed, 18 Oct 2017 21:55:07 +0100, Brian Reay wrote:

Indeed, one of the reasons we went hybrid and not all electric.

What I don't understand about hybrids is the effective mpg on long
trips? As well as the fuel serving the internal combustion engine
you have the losses from the electricity generator and motors to pay
for, and the weight of the electric system and battery to carry
around. How can the hybrid possibly be as cheap to run as a modern
diesel only car?

On Thursday, 19 October 2017 15:59:55 UTC+1, mechanic wrote:
On Wed, 18 Oct 2017 21:55:07 +0100, Brian Reay wrote:

Indeed, one of the reasons we went hybrid and not all electric.

What I don't understand about hybrids is the effective mpg on long
trips? As well as the fuel serving the internal combustion engine
you have the losses from the electricity generator and motors to pay
for, and the weight of the electric system and battery to carry
around. How can the hybrid possibly be as cheap to run as a modern
diesel only car?

They come into their own about town.
Little benefit on the motorway.

So you may as well have a straight electric car.
Covers 99% of most people's needs.