On 30/10/2017 10:45, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I dunno about petrol for a boat, as they are going to be pretty rare,
other than a small outboard, etc. Others will fill up at a marine filling
station - not on the M1. And your car might get rather soggy is you tried
to use that.

Diesel is called red or white. One is taxed for road vehicles. the other
not.

Petrol for a boat is road petrol. Diesel for a boat can be red diesel.
Sometimes... the law is complex.

Andy

In article ,
bert wrote:
In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
charles wrote:
My French 4x4 hybrid estate car saves me £130 every month compared to
the Audi A4 Allroad it replaced and does everything the Allroad did!

Including 500ish miles on a single refueling?

If it's a hybrid, depends on the size of the fuel tank.

You don't say.

You've Googled to find out what a hybrid is? Did you understand it?

--
*I took an IQ test and the results were negative.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
bert wrote:
Consequently what is supposed to happen is that on sale of fuel to a
pleasure boat the supplier collects full duty even though the diesel
is red for what is intended for propulsion and the purchaser self
declares on an official form how much they use for non propulsion
purposes and the supplier takes the lesser amount for what has been
declared.

A fine example of EU red tape.

You don't understand the principle of a fuel being used purely for
pleasure purposes attracting duty, then?

--
*You're never too old to learn something stupid.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Vir Campestris wrote:
On 30/10/2017 10:45, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I dunno about petrol for a boat, as they are going to be pretty rare,
other than a small outboard, etc. Others will fill up at a marine
filling station - not on the M1. And your car might get rather soggy
is you tried to use that.

Diesel is called red or white. One is taxed for road vehicles. the
other not.

Petrol for a boat is road petrol. Diesel for a boat can be red diesel.
Sometimes... the law is complex.

Quite. When the decision was made to have two types of diesel, it may not
have been anticipated how much pleasure boating with diesels there would
be.

--
*When everything's coming your way, you're in the wrong lane *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 01/11/2017 10:36, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Vir Campestris wrote:
On 30/10/2017 10:45, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I dunno about petrol for a boat, as they are going to be pretty rare,
other than a small outboard, etc. Others will fill up at a marine
filling station - not on the M1. And your car might get rather soggy
is you tried to use that.

Diesel is called red or white. One is taxed for road vehicles. the
other not.

Petrol for a boat is road petrol. Diesel for a boat can be red diesel.
Sometimes... the law is complex.

Quite. When the decision was made to have two types of diesel, it may not
have been anticipated how much pleasure boating with diesels there would
be.

If fuel duty is to pay for roads, why should boats pay for them?

--
Max Demian

In article , Max Demian
wrote:
On 01/11/2017 10:36, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Vir Campestris
wrote:
On 30/10/2017 10:45, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I dunno about petrol for a boat, as they are going to be pretty rare,
other than a small outboard, etc. Others will fill up at a marine
filling station - not on the M1. And your car might get rather soggy
is you tried to use that.

Diesel is called red or white. One is taxed for road vehicles. the
other not.

Petrol for a boat is road petrol. Diesel for a boat can be red diesel.
Sometimes... the law is complex.

Quite. When the decision was made to have two types of diesel, it may
not have been anticipated how much pleasure boating with diesels there
would be.

If fuel duty is to pay for roads, why should boats pay for them?

I feel the same way when I buy fuel for my lawnmower.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On Wednesday, November 1, 2017 at 11:23:04 AM UTC, Max Demian wrote:
On 01/11/2017 10:36, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Vir Campestris wrote:
On 30/10/2017 10:45, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I dunno about petrol for a boat, as they are going to be pretty rare,
other than a small outboard, etc. Others will fill up at a marine
filling station - not on the M1. And your car might get rather soggy
is you tried to use that.

Diesel is called red or white. One is taxed for road vehicles. the
other not.

Petrol for a boat is road petrol. Diesel for a boat can be red diesel.
Sometimes... the law is complex.

Quite. When the decision was made to have two types of diesel, it may not
have been anticipated how much pleasure boating with diesels there would
be.

If fuel duty is to pay for roads, why should boats pay for them?

--
Max Demian

Up until recently it was permissible to use red/green diesel in boats.The EU put a stop to that. In Ireland they expect you to keep a total of your annual duty free purchases and send a check for the tax to the revenue.
Right.

In article ,
Max Demian wrote:
On 01/11/2017 10:36, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Vir Campestris wrote:
On 30/10/2017 10:45, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I dunno about petrol for a boat, as they are going to be pretty rare,
other than a small outboard, etc. Others will fill up at a marine
filling station - not on the M1. And your car might get rather soggy
is you tried to use that.

Diesel is called red or white. One is taxed for road vehicles. the
other not.

Petrol for a boat is road petrol. Diesel for a boat can be red diesel.
Sometimes... the law is complex.

Quite. When the decision was made to have two types of diesel, it may
not have been anticipated how much pleasure boating with diesels there
would be.

If fuel duty is to pay for roads, why should boats pay for them?

Can you give an example of any ring fenced tax? The TV licence would be
the closest one.

Does the duty on alcohol all get spent on making pubs nicer? ;-)

--
*Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 1 Nov 2017 11:23:01 +0000, Max Demian
wrote:



If fuel duty is to pay for roads, why should boats pay for them?


If fuel duty and road tax revenues were spent on roads they would
indeed be paved with gold.

Now general revenue is going to have start subsidising the road user
as people go electric. Next thing is that we'll have to stop heating
our water and using airconditioners to make up for the power
shortfall.

--
AnthonyL

On 02/11/2017 12:28, AnthonyL wrote:
On Wed, 1 Nov 2017 11:23:01 +0000, Max Demian
wrote:



If fuel duty is to pay for roads, why should boats pay for them?


If fuel duty and road tax revenues were spent on roads they would
indeed be paved with gold.

Now general revenue is going to have start subsidising the road user
as people go electric. Next thing is that we'll have to stop heating
our water and using airconditioners to make up for the power
shortfall.


There is more than enough spare grid capacity overnight and weekends to
recharge every vehicle an average of 2 times per week.

On 02/11/2017 15:36, Andy Bennet wrote:
On 02/11/2017 12:28, AnthonyL wrote:
On Wed, 1 Nov 2017 11:23:01 +0000, Max Demian
wrote:



If fuel duty is to pay for roads, why should boats pay for them?


If fuel duty and road tax revenues were spent on roads they would
indeed be paved with gold.

Now general revenue is going to have start subsidising the road user
as people go electric. Next thing is that we'll have to stop heating
our water and using airconditioners to make up for the power
shortfall.


There is more than enough spare grid capacity overnight and weekends to
recharge every vehicle an average of 2 times per week.

Or to put it another way - nowhere near enough capacity.

(and that is before you start moving significant parts of the transport
and heating load onto the electrical system)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
Andy Bennet wrote:
On 02/11/2017 12:28, AnthonyL wrote:
On Wed, 1 Nov 2017 11:23:01 +0000, Max Demian
wrote:



If fuel duty is to pay for roads, why should boats pay for them?


If fuel duty and road tax revenues were spent on roads they would
indeed be paved with gold.

Now general revenue is going to have start subsidising the road user
as people go electric. Next thing is that we'll have to stop heating
our water and using airconditioners to make up for the power
shortfall.


There is more than enough spare grid capacity overnight and weekends to
recharge every vehicle an average of 2 times per week.

the Grid might stand it, but will the local ditribution network?

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
bert wrote:
In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
charles wrote:
My French 4x4 hybrid estate car saves me £130 every month compared to
the Audi A4 Allroad it replaced and does everything the Allroad did!

Including 500ish miles on a single refueling?

If it's a hybrid, depends on the size of the fuel tank.

You don't say.

You've Googled to find out what a hybrid is? Did you understand it?

I understand you are a total dick and expert only at stating the
bleeding obvious.
--
bert

In article , Max
Demian writes
On 01/11/2017 10:36, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Vir Campestris wrote:
On 30/10/2017 10:45, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I dunno about petrol for a boat, as they are going to be pretty rare,
other than a small outboard, etc. Others will fill up at a marine
filling station - not on the M1. And your car might get rather soggy
is you tried to use that.

Diesel is called red or white. One is taxed for road vehicles. the
other not.

Petrol for a boat is road petrol. Diesel for a boat can be red
diesel.
Sometimes... the law is complex.
Quite. When the decision was made to have two types of diesel, it
may not
have been anticipated how much pleasure boating with diesels there would
be.

If fuel duty is to pay for roads, why should boats pay for them?

Because some petty bureaucrat in Brussels saw at as boats getting away
with something and changed the usage definition to "transportation"
That is their only raison d'être.
After Brexit we can allow boats to use red diesel if we wish.
--
bert

In article , Andy
Bennet writes
On 02/11/2017 12:28, AnthonyL wrote:
On Wed, 1 Nov 2017 11:23:01 +0000, Max Demian
wrote:



If fuel duty is to pay for roads, why should boats pay for them?


If fuel duty and road tax revenues were spent on roads they would
indeed be paved with gold.

Now general revenue is going to have start subsidising the road user
as people go electric. Next thing is that we'll have to stop heating
our water and using airconditioners to make up for the power
shortfall.


There is more than enough spare grid capacity overnight and weekends to
recharge every vehicle an average of 2 times per week.
So how will you stop people charging a) in the evenings b) every
evening?
--
bert

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
bert wrote:
Consequently what is supposed to happen is that on sale of fuel to a
pleasure boat the supplier collects full duty even though the diesel
is red for what is intended for propulsion and the purchaser self
declares on an official form how much they use for non propulsion
purposes and the supplier takes the lesser amount for what has been
declared.

A fine example of EU red tape.

You don't understand the principle of a fuel being used purely for
pleasure purposes attracting duty, then?

You obviously don't understand the effect and impracticality of trivial
red tape.
--
bert

On Fri, 3 Nov 2017 20:02:45 +0000, bert wrote:



Petrol for a boat is road petrol. Diesel for a boat can be red
diesel.
Sometimes... the law is complex.
Quite. When the decision was made to have two types of diesel, it
may not
have been anticipated how much pleasure boating with diesels there would
be.

If fuel duty is to pay for roads, why should boats pay for them?

Because some petty bureaucrat in Brussels saw at as boats getting away
with something and changed the usage definition to "transportation"
That is their only raison d'être.
After Brexit we can allow boats to use red diesel if we wish.

Those who use boats for commercial uses can still use fuel at the
lower rate.

I don't see why the owner of a Sunseeker or similar large pleasure
vessel who is willing to spend a couple of million buying it and a
few thousand a year just berthing it should get cheap fuel to aid
their hobby when someone who can only afford to indulge in a bit of
car rallying or a bit of green laning in their Land Rover cannot.

G.Harman

On 03/11/2017 20:42, wrote:
On Fri, 3 Nov 2017 20:02:45 +0000, bert wrote:



Petrol for a boat is road petrol. Diesel for a boat can be red
diesel.
Sometimes... the law is complex.
Quite. When the decision was made to have two types of diesel, it
may not
have been anticipated how much pleasure boating with diesels there would
be.

If fuel duty is to pay for roads, why should boats pay for them?

Because some petty bureaucrat in Brussels saw at as boats getting away
with something and changed the usage definition to "transportation"
That is their only raison d'être.
After Brexit we can allow boats to use red diesel if we wish.

Those who use boats for commercial uses can still use fuel at the
lower rate.

I don't see why the owner of a Sunseeker or similar large pleasure
vessel who is willing to spend a couple of million buying it and a
few thousand a year just berthing it should get cheap fuel to aid
their hobby when someone who can only afford to indulge in a bit of
car rallying or a bit of green laning in their Land Rover cannot.

G.Harman

You can use red diesel in your Landrover, as long as you do not drive on
public highways - and that includes green lanes, as they are still
designated as such.

You can off-road around a private quarry or farmer's field to your
heart's content on red diesel.

SteveW

On Friday, 3 November 2017 20:07:55 UTC, bert wrote:
In article , Andy
Bennet writes
On 02/11/2017 12:28, AnthonyL wrote:
On Wed, 1 Nov 2017 11:23:01 +0000, Max Demian
wrote:



If fuel duty is to pay for roads, why should boats pay for them?


If fuel duty and road tax revenues were spent on roads they would
indeed be paved with gold.

Now general revenue is going to have start subsidising the road user
as people go electric. Next thing is that we'll have to stop heating
our water and using airconditioners to make up for the power
shortfall.


There is more than enough spare grid capacity overnight and weekends to
recharge every vehicle an average of 2 times per week.
So how will you stop people charging a) in the evenings b) every
evening?
--
bert

Money and smart meters.

On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 01:13:54 +0000, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 03/11/2017 20:42, wrote:

If fuel duty is to pay for roads, why should boats pay for them?

I don't see why the owner of a Sunseeker or similar large pleasure
vessel who is willing to spend a couple of million buying it and a
few thousand a year just berthing it should get cheap fuel to aid
their hobby when someone who can only afford to indulge in a bit of
car rallying or a bit of green laning in their Land Rover cannot.

You can use red diesel in your Landrover, as long as you do not drive on
public highways - and that includes green lanes, as they are still
designated as such.

A green lane doesn't have doesn't have any legal definition as such ,
it is just a descriptive name for a of type track that is unmetalled.
Some are not public highways, others are many having been re
designated in recent times to restrict access to vehicles but there
are still quite a number that are fully accessible.
You need to be fully legal as regards insurance, MOT if the vehicle
requires one and Ironically road tax, I doubt you will get away with
trying to claim that because such a road is unmetalled you can use
red diesel.

You can off-road around a private quarry or farmer's field to your
heart's content on red diesel.

Well.that is a bit of a statement of the obvious and if those who
run off road experiences courses and have no need to drive the
vehicles off site it would save a few bob but I also mentioned
car rallying and there cannot be that many places in the UK where
you could hold a car rally without traversing public roads,not that
many rally cars will be diesel anyway though if you include road runs
which are a pleasure trip exhibiting interesting vehicles some will
be.
A motoring hobby that has grown in recent years is the weekend tractor
run as it is relatively cheap to get hold of and maintain an
interesting old piece of machinery and go off in convoy with others
hindering the journey to the garden centre for 1000's
Some belong to people who keep them in a suburban semi others are an
old "pet" on a farm that grandad bought and is still used for small
jobs rather than fire up the mew bungalow sized John Deere.

HMRC have noticed this new hobby and have warned a few people that
driving to a pub on your tractor isn't actually an agricultural
purpose and that using red diesel may result in prosecution.
No problem for the bloke in the semi to comply but the farm pet may
still be in use for agriculture most of the time.


G.Harman

In article ,
harry writes
On Friday, 3 November 2017 20:07:55 UTC, bert wrote:
In article , Andy
Bennet writes
On 02/11/2017 12:28, AnthonyL wrote:
On Wed, 1 Nov 2017 11:23:01 +0000, Max Demian
wrote:



If fuel duty is to pay for roads, why should boats pay for them?


If fuel duty and road tax revenues were spent on roads they would
indeed be paved with gold.

Now general revenue is going to have start subsidising the road user
as people go electric. Next thing is that we'll have to stop heating
our water and using airconditioners to make up for the power
shortfall.


There is more than enough spare grid capacity overnight and weekends to
recharge every vehicle an average of 2 times per week.
So how will you stop people charging a) in the evenings b) every
evening?
--
bert

Money and smart meters.
Really?
--
bert

On 03/11/2017 20:42, wrote:
On Fri, 3 Nov 2017 20:02:45 +0000, bert wrote:



Petrol for a boat is road petrol. Diesel for a boat can be red
diesel.
Sometimes... the law is complex.
Quite. When the decision was made to have two types of diesel, it
may not
have been anticipated how much pleasure boating with diesels there would
be.

If fuel duty is to pay for roads, why should boats pay for them?

Because some petty bureaucrat in Brussels saw at as boats getting away
with something and changed the usage definition to "transportation"
That is their only raison d'être.
After Brexit we can allow boats to use red diesel if we wish.

Those who use boats for commercial uses can still use fuel at the
lower rate.

I don't see why the owner of a Sunseeker or similar large pleasure
vessel who is willing to spend a couple of million buying it and a
few thousand a year just berthing it should get cheap fuel to aid
their hobby when someone who can only afford to indulge in a bit of
car rallying or a bit of green laning in their Land Rover cannot.

G.Harman




How people spend their money is their business- provided it is legal. To
tax people who spend it on things on the basis they must be 'wealthy' is
the just envy.

(I don't have a boat but I am do drive several vehicles, including a
'thirsty' diesel. )





--

Suspect someone is claiming a benefit under false pretences? Incapacity
Benefit or Personal Independence Payment when they don't need it? They
are depriving those in real need!

https://www.gov.uk/report-benefit-fraud

In article ,
Brian Reay wrote:
I don't see why the owner of a Sunseeker or similar large pleasure
vessel who is willing to spend a couple of million buying it and a
few thousand a year just berthing it should get cheap fuel to aid
their hobby when someone who can only afford to indulge in a bit of
car rallying or a bit of green laning in their Land Rover cannot.

G.Harman




How people spend their money is their business- provided it is legal. To
tax people who spend it on things on the basis they must be 'wealthy' is
the just envy.

Really? If you tax fuel used on a car so that even the poorest have to pay
for it, why should such fuel be tax free elsewhere?

--
*Work is for people who don't know how to fish.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 05/11/2017 10:48, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Brian Reay wrote:
I don't see why the owner of a Sunseeker or similar large pleasure
vessel who is willing to spend a couple of million buying it and a
few thousand a year just berthing it should get cheap fuel to aid
their hobby when someone who can only afford to indulge in a bit of
car rallying or a bit of green laning in their Land Rover cannot.

G.Harman




How people spend their money is their business- provided it is legal. To
tax people who spend it on things on the basis they must be 'wealthy' is
the just envy.

Really? If you tax fuel used on a car so that even the poorest have to pay
for it, why should such fuel be tax free elsewhere?


Because a car is not considered to be essential, if it was they could
get rid of public transport.

In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:
On 05/11/2017 10:48, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Brian Reay wrote:
I don't see why the owner of a Sunseeker or similar large pleasure
vessel who is willing to spend a couple of million buying it and a
few thousand a year just berthing it should get cheap fuel to aid
their hobby when someone who can only afford to indulge in a bit of
car rallying or a bit of green laning in their Land Rover cannot.

G.Harman




How people spend their money is their business- provided it is legal. To
tax people who spend it on things on the basis they must be 'wealthy' is
the just envy.

Really? If you tax fuel used on a car so that even the poorest have to pay
for it, why should such fuel be tax free elsewhere?


Because a car is not considered to be essential, if it was they could
get rid of public transport.

A gin palace is essential transport?

--
*Failure is not an option. It's bundled with your software.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Saturday, 4 November 2017 19:56:52 UTC, bert wrote:
In article ,
harry writes
On Friday, 3 November 2017 20:07:55 UTC, bert wrote:
In article , Andy
Bennet writes
On 02/11/2017 12:28, AnthonyL wrote:
On Wed, 1 Nov 2017 11:23:01 +0000, Max Demian
wrote:



If fuel duty is to pay for roads, why should boats pay for them?


If fuel duty and road tax revenues were spent on roads they would
indeed be paved with gold.

Now general revenue is going to have start subsidising the road user
as people go electric. Next thing is that we'll have to stop heating
our water and using airconditioners to make up for the power
shortfall.


There is more than enough spare grid capacity overnight and weekends to
recharge every vehicle an average of 2 times per week.
So how will you stop people charging a) in the evenings b) every
evening?
--
bert

Money and smart meters.
Really?
--
bert

That is their ultimate purpose.