Having had a new CH system fitted 3-4 years ago I thought it was time
to get it serviced..should really have been every year...but you know
how time passes :-)

I phoned up Vailant who have in the past been excellent at attending
to problems (diverter valve problems on a then new model). They said
however that they were too busy now to send engineers round to service
combis and that it was better to get one of the British gas policies
that includes servicing.

I had thought about the BG policy in the past and thought I may as
well get the policy to protect against some unwanted/unplanned costs
that may arise and as it included servicing seemed like a good time to
do it.

However, after the engineer left the building, my wife phones to say
he didn't seem to do much...certainly didn't vacuum out the boiler
which I thought would be a standard part of service.

Looking on the website now I see it's not neccesarily a service but

"a yearly safety and performance inspection (except for electric
boilers) to help reduce breakdowns "

That sounds a little crap and if my wife is correct, then we still
need to get it serviced otherwise it'll certinaly shorten its life at
best nevermind the effects of it running innefficiently.

Anyone have any experience of these policies and what the 'inspection'
is supposed to include ? I'm afraid I didn't spend too much time
looking into it before hand which was stupid in retrospect. It didn't
really cross my mind that they'd send someone round once a year to
polish the boiler housing and not bother checking inside it
considering they're supposed to cough up for any problems. However I
don't really want to knock 5 years life of the boiler because it's not
actually being serviced properly. The policy is "Maintenance and
Breakdown" cover so I expect some Maintenance...not just breakdown
cover...and I don't class a visual inspection as maintenance.

Ant.

On 29 Dec 2003 08:26:01 -0800, (ANt) wrote:

Having had a new CH system fitted 3-4 years ago I thought it was time
to get it serviced..should really have been every year...but you know
how time passes :-)

I phoned up Vailant who have in the past been excellent at attending
to problems (diverter valve problems on a then new model). They said
however that they were too busy now to send engineers round to service
combis and that it was better to get one of the British gas policies
that includes servicing.

I had thought about the BG policy in the past and thought I may as
well get the policy to protect against some unwanted/unplanned costs
that may arise and as it included servicing seemed like a good time to
do it.

I had some experience of this a few years back.

The advertising is very good. It's when you sign up that the
disappointment begins. The TV advertising, especially, I felt, is
very misleading. They feature a man and a boy team who show up at a
hapless customer, and the patter gives the impression that they are
offering a paramedic service. I felt that this was less than honest
and have a case with the ASA about it.

My own experience, one winter when the boiler failed was disappointing
when I called them. They were not able to send anybody for five
days. I asked them why and they said that they were experiencing a
lot of staffing problems and were prioritising vulnerable people like
the elderly and families with small children. I escalated the issue
through their organisation until I reached director level but got
absolutely nowhere. What ****ed me off the most was that they felt
that this way of working was acceptable - they still very much have
the attitude of a public sector service industry. Sorry, but in the
commercial world at the prices that they are charging, they need to
make arrangements to provide a reasonable level of service, and it
isn't for them to play God over who gets service and who does not.

In the end, I repaired the boiler myself at a cost of £3 for a new
thermocouple and about 30 minutes work.

BG, on threat of legal action, refunded my entire year's contract
payment, although continued to protest that they were inside the
contract conditions.


However, after the engineer left the building, my wife phones to say
he didn't seem to do much...certainly didn't vacuum out the boiler
which I thought would be a standard part of service.

It may or it may not be. If you look on Vaillant's web site, you
will find the installation and service documentation for your boiler.

Often BG will just put a combustion analyser in the flue and test
carbon monoxide level. This is one indication of correct behaviour
and safety but does not necessarily say whether the boiler is
operating at its most efficient.

One can argue that pulling the boiler apart every year is not
necessary - it depends on what the manufacturer recommends.


Looking on the website now I see it's not neccesarily a service but

"a yearly safety and performance inspection (except for electric
boilers) to help reduce breakdowns "

That sounds a little crap and if my wife is correct, then we still
need to get it serviced otherwise it'll certinaly shorten its life at
best nevermind the effects of it running innefficiently.

I can understand that you feel short changed, but check what the
manufacturer suggests.



Anyone have any experience of these policies and what the 'inspection'
is supposed to include ? I'm afraid I didn't spend too much time
looking into it before hand which was stupid in retrospect. It didn't
really cross my mind that they'd send someone round once a year to
polish the boiler housing and not bother checking inside it
considering they're supposed to cough up for any problems. However I
don't really want to knock 5 years life of the boiler because it's not
actually being serviced properly. The policy is "Maintenance and
Breakdown" cover so I expect some Maintenance...not just breakdown
cover...and I don't class a visual inspection as maintenance.

Their other favourite games are to tell customers that their systems
need to be powerflushed. Not included. Expect to pay £500-800 for
this. You can *buy* the machine for little more than this, and can
certainly hire them. Alternatively, you can do an effective job in
other ways for next to nothing.

If a boiler looks as though it is going to cost them time and money to
fix, then they will tell you that it is beyond economic repair and
then offer you a new one at an arm and a leg over anybody else in the
market. They'll sweeten the deal if pushed by giving you three
years breakdown cover. Give!! Hmmm...

If you are paying by standing order, I would cancel it immediately and
offer them £30 for the work they did already.

Then find yourself a local heating firm or fitter to do the work.





Ant.

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"ANt" wrote in message
om...
Having had a new CH system fitted 3-4 years ago I thought it was time
to get it serviced..should really have been every year...but you know
how time passes :-)

I phoned up Vailant who have in the past been excellent at attending
to problems (diverter valve problems on a then new model). They said
however that they were too busy now to send engineers round to service
combis and that it was better to get one of the British gas policies
that includes servicing.

I had thought about the BG policy in the past and thought I may as
well get the policy to protect against some unwanted/unplanned costs
that may arise and as it included servicing seemed like a good time to
do it.

However, after the engineer left the building, my wife phones to say
he didn't seem to do much...certainly didn't vacuum out the boiler
which I thought would be a standard part of service.

Looking on the website now I see it's not neccesarily a service but

"a yearly safety and performance inspection (except for electric
boilers) to help reduce breakdowns "

That sounds a little crap and if my wife is correct, then we still
need to get it serviced otherwise it'll certinaly shorten its life at
best nevermind the effects of it running innefficiently.

Anyone have any experience of these policies and what the 'inspection'
is supposed to include ? I'm afraid I didn't spend too much time
looking into it before hand which was stupid in retrospect. It didn't
really cross my mind that they'd send someone round once a year to
polish the boiler housing and not bother checking inside it
considering they're supposed to cough up for any problems. However I
don't really want to knock 5 years life of the boiler because it's not
actually being serviced properly. The policy is "Maintenance and
Breakdown" cover so I expect some Maintenance...not just breakdown
cover...and I don't class a visual inspection as maintenance.



I'd be interested to know the outcome of this as I've been considering a
'maintenance and breakdown cover' policy for my CH boiler which is coming up
to 3 years mod 2004.

I also agree with what you say about the maintenance expetations. But
knowing what companies can be like they'd probably class this as a service
and charge thru the nose for it!

--
p00kie
--

In article ,
ANt wrote:
I had thought about the BG policy in the past and thought I may as
well get the policy to protect against some unwanted/unplanned costs
that may arise and as it included servicing seemed like a good time to
do it.

However, after the engineer left the building, my wife phones to say
he didn't seem to do much...certainly didn't vacuum out the boiler
which I thought would be a standard part of service.

Just out of interest, I didn't touch my newly installed system with the
express desire of seeing just how long it would run without a 'service'.
The answer - 12 years. Then it needed a good clean out. Natural gas burns
pretty cleanly and doesn't require the ancient idea of an annual clean out
that town gas did. IMHO, there's nothing in a modern system that an annual
service from BG etc is needed. It's simply an insurance contract. And it's
up to you whether this is worthwhile or not.

--
*Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
The advertising is very good.

It is excellent. On the advert Ricky Tomlinson says "we do not need to be
here" and never was a truer word spoken.

--
Adam

"ANt" wrote in message
om...

Anyone have any experience of these policies and what the 'inspection'
is supposed to include ? I'm afraid I didn't spend too much time
looking into it before hand which was stupid in retrospect. It didn't
really cross my mind that they'd send someone round once a year to
polish the boiler housing and not bother checking inside it
considering they're supposed to cough up for any problems. However I
don't really want to knock 5 years life of the boiler because it's not
actually being serviced properly.

I would have thought that there should be some maintenance instructions for the
boiler which would tell you what servicing is required.
(Maybe you need to get a copy from manufacturer.)

In my (old) experience the thermo couples fail and need replacing if you don't
want to stay cold.

You might find that something like inspection of the burners is covered, but
replacment is not.

Michael Chare

In message , ARWadsworth
wrote

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
The advertising is very good.

It is excellent. On the advert Ricky Tomlinson says "we do not need to be
here" and never was a truer word spoken.


The advertisements are b******s. Even if you provide your own meter
readings over the web BG will send a letter every 18 months threatening
legal action unless you allow them into your house to 'perform a safety
check'.

The safety check is someone turning up to (surprise, surprise) read the
meter. As he is not Corgi registered I'm not sure that this 5 second
safety check has any meaning!

What's worse is that they will only read the one meter even if asked to
read both because BG supply both the gas and electricity. A few months
later another threatening letter arrives in order to safety check the
electricity!
--
Alan

On 29/12/2003 "ANt" opined:-
Anyone have any experience of these policies and what the 'inspection'
is supposed to include ? I'm afraid I didn't spend too much time
looking into it before hand which was stupid in retrospect. It didn't
really cross my mind that they'd send someone round once a year to
polish the boiler housing and not bother checking inside it
considering they're supposed to cough up for any problems. However I
don't really want to knock 5 years life of the boiler because it's not
actually being serviced properly. The policy is "Maintenance and
Breakdown" cover so I expect some Maintenance...not just breakdown
cover...and I don't class a visual inspection as maintenance.

I would suggest the best thing to do is to put the money you would pay
BG into a money box, then use that to cover the cost of any repairs.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (Lap)
http://www.ukradioamateur.org

ANt wrote:
Having had a new CH system fitted 3-4 years ago I thought it was time
to get it serviced..should really have been every year...but you know
how time passes :-)

I phoned up Vailant who have in the past been excellent at attending
to problems (diverter valve problems on a then new model). They said
however that they were too busy now to send engineers round to service
combis and that it was better to get one of the British gas policies
that includes servicing.

I had thought about the BG policy in the past and thought I may as
well get the policy to protect against some unwanted/unplanned costs
that may arise and as it included servicing seemed like a good time to
do it.

However, after the engineer left the building, my wife phones to say
he didn't seem to do much...certainly didn't vacuum out the boiler
which I thought would be a standard part of service.

Looking on the website now I see it's not neccesarily a service but

"a yearly safety and performance inspection (except for electric
boilers) to help reduce breakdowns "

That sounds a little crap and if my wife is correct, then we still
need to get it serviced otherwise it'll certinaly shorten its life at
best nevermind the effects of it running innefficiently.

Anyone have any experience of these policies and what the 'inspection'
is supposed to include ? I'm afraid I didn't spend too much time
looking into it before hand which was stupid in retrospect. It didn't
really cross my mind that they'd send someone round once a year to
polish the boiler housing and not bother checking inside it
considering they're supposed to cough up for any problems. However I
don't really want to knock 5 years life of the boiler because it's not
actually being serviced properly. The policy is "Maintenance and
Breakdown" cover so I expect some Maintenance...not just breakdown
cover...and I don't class a visual inspection as maintenance.

Ant.

They do next to nothing. Cancel the contract and save your money.
I haven't had one for 20 years so have saved myself enough money for 2
boilers when the time comes...

I watched them do 2 "services" not long ago at my ma-in-laws and another.
They were barely there 20 minutes in each case.
In one they failed to do anything about the very noisy pump which they had
to replace the following week.
In the other they did nothing about the combi cold pressure of 0.5 which
was a 10sec job to fix.
Both contracts were cancelled by the householders...
B Gas are now nothing more than a milk-cow division of Centrica, who have
also f***ed up the AA.
They're probably not even British ....

"Alan" wrote in message
...
In message , ARWadsworth
wrote

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
The advertising is very good.

It is excellent. On the advert Ricky Tomlinson says "we do not need to be
here" and never was a truer word spoken.


The advertisements are b******s. Even if you provide your own meter
readings over the web BG will send a letter every 18 months threatening
legal action unless you allow them into your house to 'perform a safety
check'.

The safety check is someone turning up to (surprise, surprise) read the
meter. As he is not Corgi registered I'm not sure that this 5 second
safety check has any meaning!

The b******s owe me a days wage and travel expenses to my parent's holiday
home after not tuning up for the above safety check appointment. They also
owe my Dad the same. Third time lucky. An invoice for just over £400 has
been sent to them to cover costs.

--
Adam

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:38:39 GMT, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:


"Alan" wrote in message
. ..
In message , ARWadsworth
wrote

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
The advertising is very good.

It is excellent. On the advert Ricky Tomlinson says "we do not need to be
here" and never was a truer word spoken.


The advertisements are b******s. Even if you provide your own meter
readings over the web BG will send a letter every 18 months threatening
legal action unless you allow them into your house to 'perform a safety
check'.

The safety check is someone turning up to (surprise, surprise) read the
meter. As he is not Corgi registered I'm not sure that this 5 second
safety check has any meaning!

The b******s owe me a days wage and travel expenses to my parent's holiday
home after not tuning up for the above safety check appointment. They also
owe my Dad the same. Third time lucky. An invoice for just over £400 has
been sent to them to cover costs.

That's going to be very interesting. Please keep us updated as this
one progresses....



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:28:55 +0000, ARWadsworth wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
The advertising is very good.

It is excellent. On the advert Ricky Tomlinson says "we do not need to be
here" and never was a truer word spoken.

Also anyone that remote is not on mains gas, bulk LPG tanks or even Oil!

Have you noticed they have now added a bit of 'small print' something
about 'safety checks still being required' - but it is only displayed for
a moment so I have not looked at it very closely.

As for the OP problem.
1) There is a culture and public perception that boilers need servicing
and whilst I agree that an annual quick safety check is a good idea it
really is quite unnecessary to pull a contemporary boiler apart annually.
Most can years before needing a good overhaul.

2) There is also a culture of never touching a gas fire and these really
do need to be looked after much more than they generally get.

3) Sniffing the flue gases with a gas analyser might well be good enough
as PART OF an annual check. What else needs doing will depend on the type
of equipment - there is little to check on a modern boiler but at the very
least the burner pressure must be checked.

Older boilers with a thermocouple should have the time between the pilot
flame going out to moment the gas valve 'clunks' out measured.
60s is the maximum, whilst there is no minimum times under 5 seconds could
suggest a nearly expired thermocouple which will save a lot of hassle if
it is replaced right away. Also the valve going clunk is not guarantee
that the valve has shut off so that should also be checked - as they get
older some valves get very sticky inside.


Much older boilers with open flues will need careful checking with
smoke matches every year, and they temd to pick up a lot of dirt so theyt
need stripping down most years.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:28:39 +0000, Alan wrote:

In message , ARWadsworth
wrote

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
. ..
The advertising is very good.

It is excellent. On the advert Ricky Tomlinson says "we do not need to be
here" and never was a truer word spoken.


The advertisements are b******s. Even if you provide your own meter
readings over the web BG will send a letter every 18 months threatening
legal action unless you allow them into your house to 'perform a safety
check'.

The safety check is someone turning up to (surprise, surprise) read the
meter. As he is not Corgi registered I'm not sure that this 5 second
safety check has any meaning!

This could only mean checking that no one has taken the meter out of
service and bridged it with a hose.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:38:39 +0000, ARWadsworth wrote:


"Alan" wrote in message
...
In message , ARWadsworth
wrote

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
The advertising is very good.

It is excellent. On the advert Ricky Tomlinson says "we do not need to be
here" and never was a truer word spoken.


The advertisements are b******s. Even if you provide your own meter
readings over the web BG will send a letter every 18 months threatening
legal action unless you allow them into your house to 'perform a safety
check'.

The safety check is someone turning up to (surprise, surprise) read the
meter. As he is not Corgi registered I'm not sure that this 5 second
safety check has any meaning!

The b******s owe me a days wage and travel expenses to my parent's holiday
home after not tuning up for the above safety check appointment. They also
owe my Dad the same. Third time lucky. An invoice for just over £400 has
been sent to them to cover costs.

Let us know how you get on.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

In article , Andy Hall
writes
On 29 Dec 2003 08:26:01 -0800, (ANt) wrote:

Having had a new CH system fitted 3-4 years ago I thought it was time
to get it serviced..should really have been every year...but you know
how time passes :-)

snip

I had some experience of this a few years back.

The advertising is very good. It's when you sign up that the
disappointment begins. The TV advertising, especially, I felt, is
very misleading. They feature a man and a boy team who show up at a
hapless customer, and the patter gives the impression that they are
offering a paramedic service. I felt that this was less than honest
and have a case with the ASA about it.

My own experience, one winter when the boiler failed was disappointing
snip

BG, on threat of legal action, refunded my entire year's contract
payment, although continued to protest that they were inside the
contract conditions.


However, after the engineer left the building, my wife phones to say
he didn't seem to do much...certainly didn't vacuum out the boiler
which I thought would be a standard part of service.

It may or it may not be. If you look on Vaillant's web site, you
will find the installation and service documentation for your boiler.

Often BG will just put a combustion analyser in the flue and test
carbon monoxide level. This is one indication of correct behaviour
and safety but does not necessarily say whether the boiler is
operating at its most efficient.

One can argue that pulling the boiler apart every year is not
necessary - it depends on what the manufacturer recommends.


Looking on the website now I see it's not neccesarily a service but

"a yearly safety and performance inspection (except for electric
boilers) to help reduce breakdowns "

That sounds a little crap and if my wife is correct, then we still
need to get it serviced otherwise it'll certinaly shorten its life at
best nevermind the effects of it running innefficiently.

I can understand that you feel short changed, but check what the
manufacturer suggests.



snip

Their other favourite games are to tell customers that their systems
need to be powerflushed. Not included. Expect to pay £500-800 for
this. You can *buy* the machine for little more than this, and can
certainly hire them. Alternatively, you can do an effective job in
other ways for next to nothing.


Http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/pdf/Roth...Pipetool%20Tec
hnologies.pdf - Rocal 20 descaling and flushing pump. 'For the efficient
removal of lime scale and sludge from you know where. £311 + vat.
Or try googling for 'Rothenburger'. I think HSS hire if out too, also
a hydraulic pipe/radiator tester as used by all the U/F installers.

If a boiler looks as though it is going to cost them time and money to
fix, then they will tell you that it is beyond economic repair and
then offer you a new one at an arm and a leg over anybody else in the
market. They'll sweeten the deal if pushed by giving you three
years breakdown cover. Give!! Hmmm...

If you are paying by standing order, I would cancel it immediately and
offer them £30 for the work they did already.

Then find yourself a local heating firm or fitter to do the work.





Ant.

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

--
Andrew

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:08:10 +0000, Ed Sirett wrote:

The safety check is someone turning up to (surprise, surprise) read
the meter. As he is not Corgi registered I'm not sure that this 5
second safety check has any meaning!

Not for your safety thats for sure, only a CORGI can do a gas
appliance safety check and to do it properly on a place with boiler
and gas cooker would take the best part of a morning. Ed?

This could only mean checking that no one has taken the meter out of
service and bridged it with a hose.

This is the real reason, safety of their revenue. I believe there are
some regulatory restrictions on how often *they* *must* read the
meter.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:38:39 GMT, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:


"Alan" wrote in message
. ..
In message ,
ARWadsworth
wrote

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
The advertising is very good.

It is excellent. On the advert Ricky Tomlinson says "we do not need to
be
here" and never was a truer word spoken.


The advertisements are b******s. Even if you provide your own meter
readings over the web BG will send a letter every 18 months threatening
legal action unless you allow them into your house to 'perform a safety
check'.

The safety check is someone turning up to (surprise, surprise) read
the
meter. As he is not Corgi registered I'm not sure that this 5 second
safety check has any meaning!

The b******s owe me a days wage and travel expenses to my parent's
holiday
home after not tuning up for the above safety check appointment. They
also
owe my Dad the same. Third time lucky. An invoice for just over £400 has
been sent to them to cover costs.

That's going to be very interesting. Please keep us updated as this
one progresses....

It is not a problem. It is now the second time they have done this. We got
the money last time (about 5 years ago) but it was time consuming. In the
end they paid up when we sent the person dealing with our complaint a
cutting from a newspaper where someone had taken BG to court and won his
case for loss of wages etc. Hopefully they will have us on file and pay up a
little quicker this time.

--
Adam

On 29 Dec 2003 08:26:01 -0800, (ANt) wrote:

Having had a new CH system fitted 3-4 years ago I thought it was time
to get it serviced..should really have been every year...but you know
how time passes :-)

I phoned up Vailant who have in the past been excellent at attending
Some boilers need a strip down and clean out/wash burners etc,adjust
this n that,some don;t. Its horses for courses.
For modern boilers,a lot of the fee is really for insurance as modern
appliances are more technologically advanced and therefore cost more
to fix when they go wrong.

You pays your money you take your choice. The way people bleat on here
about BG you;d think they were the worst ever organisation. Beleive
me,they are not. They are just an easy target for people to shoot
down. Mind you,people not happy with them could try the yellow pages
or small ads. I expect there are lots of fully
qualified,dependable,honest tradespeople on there.

The b******s owe me a days wage and travel expenses to my parent's holida=
y
home after not tuning up for the above safety check appointment. They als=
o
owe my Dad the same. Third time lucky. An invoice for just over =A3400 ha=
s
been sent to them to cover costs.

I don`t know if they`ll swing that far by way of expenses, but=20
www.energywatch.org.uk do set "missed appointment payments" under the=20
guaranteed standards.

Energy suppliers (both gas and elec afaik) are also obliged to read the=20
meter once every 12 months (might have been extended now), and to change=20
the meters every x number of years. For electric I think its a 20 year=20
cycle, commonly known as an SMC (statutory meter change).

--=20
Please add "[newsgroup]" in the subject of any personal replies via email
* old email address "btiruseless" abandoned due to worm-generated spam *
--- My new email address has "ngspamtrap" & @btinternet.com in it ;-) ---

"tarquinlinbin" wrote in message
...
On 29 Dec 2003 08:26:01 -0800, (ANt) wrote:

Having had a new CH system fitted 3-4 years ago I thought it was
time
to get it serviced..should really have been every year...but you
know
how time passes :-)

I phoned up Vailant who have in the past been excellent at
attending
Some boilers need a strip down and clean out/wash burners etc,adjust
this n that,some don;t. Its horses for courses.
For modern boilers,a lot of the fee is really for insurance as
modern
appliances are more technologically advanced and therefore cost more
to fix when they go wrong.

You pays your money you take your choice. The way people bleat on
here
about BG you;d think they were the worst ever organisation. Beleive
me,they are not. They are just an easy target for people to shoot
down. Mind you,people not happy with them could try the yellow pages
or small ads. I expect there are lots of fully
qualified,dependable,honest tradespeople on there.

And Con Men

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:51:53 GMT, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:




It is not a problem. It is now the second time they have done this. We got
the money last time (about 5 years ago) but it was time consuming. In the
end they paid up when we sent the person dealing with our complaint a
cutting from a newspaper where someone had taken BG to court and won his
case for loss of wages etc. Hopefully they will have us on file and pay up a
little quicker this time.

Nice technique. I've found that on several occasions with large and
especially public service type organisations like this that the
approach of exposing or threatening to expose individual's
incompetence can often produce results.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 23:17:29 +0000, tarquinlinbin
wrote:



You pays your money you take your choice. The way people bleat on here
about BG you;d think they were the worst ever organisation. Beleive
me,they are not. They are just an easy target for people to shoot
down.

True, but it's not the issue as I see it.

They are certainly trading on their market position and inertia of
people to change - they seem a "safe bet".

They advertise their service products based on this perception and
even use the notion of being a "paramedic organisation" i.e. an
emergency service in their TV advertising. OK, so they have a brief
on-screen flash mentioning "terms and conditions", but it is virtually
illegible and only up for a few seconds.

This might comply with the letter of the law but the notion that they
are providing anything close to an emergency service under central
heating contracts is misleading. They are not.

Even on their web site they talk about a 24x7x365 priority customer
help line. Call centre. Big deal. Still does not say when an
engineer will visit.

They also have the audacity to prioritise customers with some kind of
public service ethic. This is patently wrong. All customers should
be treated equally and their contracts should stipulate a maximum call
out time and a time to fix. Sorry to be hard about it, but I'm not
interested in hearing that some of their fitters are off sick or are
busy fixing old ladies gas fires. Yes, these things are important,
but they should be able to provide a good level of service for *all*
customers on the same contract.

I wouldn't even mind seeing different pricing levels for different
response times - then I could choose. Failing that, they should
refund part or all of the contract value if they fail to meet time
performance criteria.

All I ever ask a supplier or provider of a product or service to do is
what they say they are going to do. More is nice, but anything less
is not acceptable. With their promotion of their central heating
contracts, coupled with what happens in practice, they may be doing
what they say they will do in the small print, which is basically
nothing other than "best efforts", but they are selling something
more. My issue with them is the gap between what is implied and
what is delivered.

I don't feel that this should go unchallenged which is why I have
raised the issue with the ASA and with Ofcom.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In message , tarquinlinbin
wrote

Mind you,people not happy with them could try the yellow pages
or small ads. I expect there are lots of fully
qualified,dependable,honest tradespeople on there.


Probably the very people that BG sub-contract the work to.
--
Alan

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:29:44 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

My own experience, one winter when the boiler failed was disappointing
when I called them. They were not able to send anybody for five
days. I asked them why and they said that they were experiencing a
lot of staffing problems and were prioritising vulnerable people like
the elderly and families with small children.

On Sunday, I was staying at my girlfriend's parents. Central Heating
went wrong (nothing obvious), so they called the BG breakdown care.

Lots of 'It may be a couple of days before we get to you' until the
girlfriend's mother mentioned that she was elderly and that her
husband suffered from a couple of serious conditions.

BG turned up before lunch.

Afterwards my girlfriend's mother asked if we had the BG breakdown
cover. She understood why we didn't, when I pointed out that as we
couldn't play a 'magic' elderly, infirm, children, etc card, we would
be waiting for BG until the middle of the following week, if we were
lucky.

JB

snip
B Gas are now nothing more than a milk-cow division of Centrica, who have
also f***ed up the AA.
I have AA buildings and contents insurance. It's the worst level of
service I've ever had in my life. When applying for it, it took 10
iterations of the policy before they managed to get it right. I even
faxed them an altered copy of their own document with instructions to
change it so it looks like THIS. They still didn't get it right. They
also couldn't get their heads round me wanting my wife and I named on
the policy as Mr & Mrs X...they managed every combination of MR & MRs
firstname lastname you could think of. At one stage I thought they
were just taking the p1ss.
I'm in the process of finding another provider now..

Ant.

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:28:55 GMT, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
The advertising is very good.

It is excellent. On the advert Ricky Tomlinson says "we do not need to be
here" and never was a truer word spoken.

It would be interesting to find out where that cottage is, and how far
it is from the nearest gas main - and how much BG would charge to
connect them !

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 09:04:11 +0000, JB wrote:

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:29:44 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

My own experience, one winter when the boiler failed was disappointing
when I called them. They were not able to send anybody for five
days. I asked them why and they said that they were experiencing a
lot of staffing problems and were prioritising vulnerable people like
the elderly and families with small children.

On Sunday, I was staying at my girlfriend's parents. Central Heating
went wrong (nothing obvious), so they called the BG breakdown care.

Lots of 'It may be a couple of days before we get to you' until the
girlfriend's mother mentioned that she was elderly and that her
husband suffered from a couple of serious conditions.

BG turned up before lunch.

Afterwards my girlfriend's mother asked if we had the BG breakdown
cover. She understood why we didn't, when I pointed out that as we
couldn't play a 'magic' elderly, infirm, children, etc card, we would
be waiting for BG until the middle of the following week, if we were
lucky.

JB

I suppose that one can always lie, and ancient granny can be tucked up
in bed because of the cold, away from the eyes of the fitter when he
shows up. However, it isn't really the point. They should
provision so that you get the service legitimately before lunchtime as
well.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In article , Andy
Hall wrote:

One can argue that pulling the boiler apart every year is not
necessary - it depends on what the manufacturer recommends.

A Keston engineer (off the record) said that the best thing to
do with their boilers if working OK and giving the correct CO
was to leave well alone regardless of what the book says.
Downfiring condensing boilers are basically self cleansing by
design though. My (upfiring) Potterton Envoy collects all sorts
of stuff in the burner, but whether this would show up on an
exhaust gas analysis, I don't know.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser
http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:09:14 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

I suppose that one can always lie, and ancient granny can be tucked up
in bed because of the cold, away from the eyes of the fitter when he
shows up. However, it isn't really the point. They should
provision so that you get the service legitimately before lunchtime as
well.

I wonder if there is a market for a 'We are *******s, and don't care
about the elderly and sick' emergency service that gives priority to
no-one, and allocated the jobs in the strict order that the calls came
in.

If it was successful it could leave BG with 100% priority cases, with
a bit of a dilemma as to what to do.

JB

In message , JB
wrote

If it was successful it could leave BG with 100% priority cases, with
a bit of a dilemma as to what to do.


First come, first served. Exactly the way it should be otherwise too
many people will get priority service by lying about their
circumstances.

--
Alan

JB wrote:

Afterwards my girlfriend's mother asked if we had the BG breakdown
cover. She understood why we didn't, when I pointed out that as we
couldn't play a 'magic' elderly, infirm, children, etc card, we would
be waiting for BG until the middle of the following week, if we were
lucky.

I called the AA out one night and the chap they sent phoned me up en route
to say he'd be delayed as a more urgent job had come in. 1 hour later he
rolls up and apologises for the delay but as women are a priority then the
dozy mare that put petrol in a diesel Disco got a priority tag whereas me
with a broken cambelt was left til later. So much for equality.

--
James...
http://www.jameshart.co.uk/

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:22:46 +0000, JB wrote:

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:09:14 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

I suppose that one can always lie, and ancient granny can be tucked up
in bed because of the cold, away from the eyes of the fitter when he
shows up. However, it isn't really the point. They should
provision so that you get the service legitimately before lunchtime as
well.

I wonder if there is a market for a 'We are *******s, and don't care
about the elderly and sick' emergency service that gives priority to
no-one, and allocated the jobs in the strict order that the calls came
in.

It's not an issue of being *******s or not caring about the sick and
elderly. That's the job of the various public services for which we
pay outrageous sums and receive poor value for money, and also, of
course, the family.

An accident and emergency service related to healthcare may well have
to prioritise its resources but this is not the same thing at all.

BG, as far as this contract offering is concerned is not a charity,
neither is it a public service organisation. There is a place for
those, but not in the market of heating service contracts in the
modern world.

If it was successful it could leave BG with 100% priority cases, with
a bit of a dilemma as to what to do.

It's really very simple. They should provision appropriately for the
levels of service and the response times and offer services with
guaranteed response times.

I'll give you a simple example. I have a number of items of
networking equipment manufactured by Cisco. Some of them are
critical to my business and I can purchase a 4 hour support contract
for them; for others I can buy 8 hour a day, 5 day a week, next
business day support because that is good enough. The prices are
based on the product and the level of service.

I recently had occasion to use the 8x5xNBD support for a failed
wireless access point. I had already worked out that there was a
hardware problem with the radio section but it wouldn't have mattered.
I logged the call on Cisco's web site (could have been by phone or
email), received a phone call 20 minutes later and went through the
problem with the support person. OK, the questions were fairly
basic, but in 5 minutes, he had come to the same conclusion as I had
before I called. He actioned a replacement and it was in my hands
by 10am the following morning. All I had to do was to pack the
faulty part and return it using the pre-addressed label.

So it is perfectly possible to offer a service, actually at a fair
price, and to operate it correctly.

I suspect that BG fail at this through a lack of business expertise
and the wrong culture. The attitude that they are doing their
customers a favour, like the NHS seems to have, does not cut any ice
in the modern world.






JB

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In article , James Hart
wrote:

I called the AA out one night and the chap they sent phoned me up en route
to say he'd be delayed as a more urgent job had come in. 1 hour later he
rolls up and apologises for the delay but as women are a priority then the
dozy mare that put petrol in a diesel Disco got a priority tag whereas me
with a broken cambelt was left til later. So much for equality.

They flat refused to come out to my partner with a flat battery because a
Transit 120 is "above their weight limit". I moved to the AA from the RAC
after the latter decided that they would go into the ambulance chasing
business. Looks like I will be putting my business elsewhere again!

--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

So it is perfectly possible to offer a service, actually at a fair
price, and to operate it correctly.

But not to have cheap products with quality? Mmmmm


---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.555 / Virus Database: 347 - Release Date: 23/12/2003

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:41:08 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .

So it is perfectly possible to offer a service, actually at a fair
price, and to operate it correctly.

But not to have cheap products with quality? Mmmmm

There's quite a difference between a "fair price" and "cheap"


---

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:41:08 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .

So it is perfectly possible to offer a service, actually at a fair
price, and to operate it correctly.

But not to have cheap products with quality? Mmmmm

There's quite a difference between a "fair price" and "cheap"

Big difference from top bucks and decent quality too.


---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.555 / Virus Database: 347 - Release Date: 23/12/2003

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 18:21:10 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:41:08 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .

So it is perfectly possible to offer a service, actually at a fair
price, and to operate it correctly.

But not to have cheap products with quality? Mmmmm

There's quite a difference between a "fair price" and "cheap"

Big difference from top bucks and decent quality too.

Of course. It depends on your evaluation criteria.



---

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

James Hart wrote:
JB wrote:

Afterwards my girlfriend's mother asked if we had the BG breakdown
cover. She understood why we didn't, when I pointed out that as we
couldn't play a 'magic' elderly, infirm, children, etc card, we would
be waiting for BG until the middle of the following week, if we were
lucky.

I called the AA out one night and the chap they sent phoned me up en
route to say he'd be delayed as a more urgent job had come in. 1 hour
later he rolls up and apologises for the delay but as women are a
priority then the dozy mare that put petrol in a diesel Disco got a
priority tag whereas me with a broken cambelt was left til later. So
much for equality.

Is it a coincidence that the AA and B Gas are now both cash-cow divisions of
the dreaded Centrica??

Don't have anything to do with either of them. They are not the companies
they used to be ... probably not even British either.

ANt wrote:
snip
B Gas are now nothing more than a milk-cow division of Centrica, who
have also f***ed up the AA.
I have AA buildings and contents insurance. It's the worst level of
service I've ever had in my life. When applying for it, it took 10
iterations of the policy before they managed to get it right. I even
faxed them an altered copy of their own document with instructions to
change it so it looks like THIS. They still didn't get it right. They
also couldn't get their heads round me wanting my wife and I named on
the policy as Mr & Mrs X...they managed every combination of MR & MRs
firstname lastname you could think of. At one stage I thought they
were just taking the p1ss.
I'm in the process of finding another provider now..

Ant.

You should see the knuckleheads that work there, I have.
And their IT, its unbelievable. The PCs they have to use you wouldn't give
skip room to.
All the AAs & and B Gas "servers" have been centralised together in Mitcham
(at the gas works) and a right hodge-bodge it is too :-).
Most of the orig AA IT staff left under acrimonious circumstances and they
seem to rely on contractors now.

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:29:27 +0000, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:08:10 +0000, Ed Sirett wrote:

The safety check is someone turning up to (surprise, surprise) read
the meter. As he is not Corgi registered I'm not sure that this 5
second safety check has any meaning!

Not for your safety thats for sure, only a CORGI can do a gas
appliance safety check and to do it properly on a place with boiler
and gas cooker would take the best part of a morning. Ed?

Well realistically given a reasonable standrd of installation (that does
not beg to be inspected deeper) I would say something like 1-2 hours,
including doing all the paperwork and testing the meter+ pipework.

Depends on the age and complexity of the appliances
--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html